SUMMARY KEYWORDS

drinking, recovery is the new black, alcohol, sober, sobriety, recovery, conversations, instagram, support, community, women, addiction, moms, living, wine, normalizing

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Michelle Smith

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a bus, how to sit with your emotions, when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Hi there. If you’re listening to this podcast, I’m betting you’ve been going back and forth for a while now on whether or not you should stop drinking. And I want you to raise your hand. If you’ve had any one of these thoughts.

You might have been thinking, I’m not that bad. I actually don’t want to stop drinking completely. I just want to drink like a normal person. Or maybe you come home after work. And you think I know I shouldn’t drink tonight. But I literally can’t relax or have fun without it. It’s really common to say I’ve tried to take a break from drinking before. But it’s just too hard. I always give up anyway. So what’s the point in trying again? Or here’s one I hear all the time from women. Everyone I know drinks. If I stopped drinking, I will be bored. Or I’ll be boring. I’ll have no fun. I’ll never be invited anywhere. I’ll just sit home and be miserable. Or maybe you can insert whatever your reason is there.

So is your hand up? If it is that is totally okay. And that’s because taking a break from drinking and changing your relationship with alcohol. This shit is hard.

And that’s why I’m really pumped to invite you to my completely free 60 minute masterclass the five secrets to successfully take a break from drinking, even if you’ve tried and you failed in the past.

After you take this free class, you’ll realize why what you’ve been doing up until now hasn’t been working, and what to do.

Instead, we’re going to cover all the juicy topics, including what questions you need to stop asking yourself, because they’re setting you up for self sabotage, not for success. We’re going to talk about exactly what you need to do differently. So you can stop the exhausting cycle of stopping drinking and then saying screw it, and starting again.

And we’re going to talk about the real reasons you haven’t been successful. And I’m betting they’re not what you think they are. And this isn’t surface level stuff. I am handing over the strategies and the mindset shifts I go through every day with my private coaching clients. If you’re listening to this podcast, I really encourage you to take a moment and sign up for this completely free masterclass. It will help you on your journey to drink class and live more to feeling better. So if you want to save your spot, go to hellosomedaycoaching.com/class while the class is still available, and I really hope to see you there.

Hi there. Today we are talking with Michelle Smith and why recovery is the new black. 

 

Michelle is on a mission to eradicate the mommy juice culture by normalizing sobriety in our boozy world. She’s the founder of Recovery is the New Black, a digital community for moms living or exploring an alcohol free life. Since getting sober in 2016, she’s built an online community and delivered transformational keynotes to help moms take real action toward living a life they don’t want to escape. You can find Michelle’s work and super realistic philosophy on sobriety on popular media like the Today’s Shows Gary, mommy TEDx Washington Post and more. So Michelle, welcome.

 

05:15

Hello. Thank you for having me. 

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  05:20

Yeah, I’m excited to have you on and I just noticed that you quit drinking in 2016. And I did too. When did you stop?

 

05:30

It was 11/24/16, the day before Thanksgiving that year? 

 

Oh, got it.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  05:35

Yeah, I stopped in February. So we’re only like, you know, 9,10 months apart, which is cool. 

 

Yes. Very nice. 

 

So you’re here because I wanted to talk about, I love the name Recovery is the New Black. And I really do feel like, in the past couple of years, as you look at articles in popular media and Instagram, the whole sober curious movement or alcohol free movement is really growing?

 

06:08

Absolutely, it really is. And it’s really exciting for those of us who are in recovery or contemplating, because it’s really giving an opportunity and to spread the message even further than it was before.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  06:20

Yeah, I mean, I feel like, I mean, granted, I’m plugged into the culture. But as many stories as I see about the growth of pandemic, drinking, women drinking women with younger children drinking, I see an equal number of articles in The Wall Street Journal, in other really big outlets around the rise of the sober curious movement, how low alcohol is taking over the drinks industry, how non alcohol wine market is ballooning. You know, all of those kinds of messages are out there, too.

 

07:01

Yes, they are, which again, the more conversations we can have around normalizing sobriety for alcohol free living, the more the merrier, because when we have these conversations at restaurants and in bars, and we’re asking for virgin drinks, or zero proof, or mocktails, however, we want to say it, the more we’re asking for it, there’s a demand. They’re listening to us. And so it’s really cool that a lot of us are not only recovering out loud, but getting curious out loud, and that, collectively, we’re having these conversations that no amount of alcohol is good for you. So before, like when we Casey, we’re just kind of exploring sobriety. Usually it was either you’re an alcoholic, or you’re pregnant, like you needed to justify why you were not going to consume alcohol. And now I see such a shift that just for the health of it, I like the way my body feels. And I don’t like how I show up in the world, when I’m under the influence of this mind altering chemical. And so the more people that are normalizing that I say all the time, I’m a non drinker, nonsmoker and non meat eater, that’s just who I

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  08:12

1. Yeah. And I love the idea of treating the decision to not drink like you’re vegetarian in terms of when you go to dinner parties or barbecues or out.

 

08:26

I mean, if you’re a vegetarian, typically, you’re one of the only ones coming to an event. Sometimes you bring your own food or your own version, you don’t necessarily expect your hosts to have the right thing for you. So you bring your own. You don’t apologize for it. You’re just like, this is a health choice I’m making and everybody pretty much shrugs you know? 

 

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 

 

Sobriety is no different. You should always plan for something to go wrong, or to have our own supply with us because we can’t bank on somebody else having that for us. It’s a slippery slope if we do, so it’s like, inclusivity is such a buzzword right now. Right? So it’s like inviting somebody, like you said a vegan or a vegetarian, to a dinner party. But nobody, but they can’t eat once they get there. So having options and alternatives, but always remembering that you’re responsible for your own sobriety and that we can put those in our backpack or in our car, which I do, because it’s, you know, addiction sneaks up very quickly on us when we’re least expecting it and in a vulnerable situation and so, fail to plan plan to fail.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  09:44

Yeah, and I love that too. And you know, when I think about bringing my own drinks, and I totally do I even went to a parent social event at my son’s school at someone’s house, and I put in like three of my Lubbock Brewing Company beers like just in my bag, and was like whipping them out and putting them in their recycling. And they had non-alcoholic drinks. They just didn’t have my favorite. But I used to always like, so, for example, had I gone to this exact same event, back when I was drinking, I would probably have brought two bottles of wine as a quote unquote hostess gift. And if we’re being honest, one of the reasons I would bring two is because I worry that they wouldn’t have enough.

 

10:32

Absolutely need to. Absolutely. And what a freeing feeling that is to not have to do that anymore and to be proud of our drinks and to put them out and not have to camouflage them. This is how we’re showing up. This is me, this can take me or you know, are we going to continue to have this party in conversation? Because it doesn’t have to be weird. 

 

Yeah,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  10:57

absolutely. And I think one of the interesting things is, if you’re just starting on this path, it is not that you need to be out and proud and talk about it in social settings with people you don’t know. I mean, this is a personal thing that you’re doing for yourself. But I think one of the reasons I wanted to have this conversation around Recovery is the New Black, and it’s being now seen as cool and something to be celebrated and something that’s, you know, a little like a health choice and counterculture, is because if you do make that choice, you’re no longer alone. One of the stats that I was looking at was in 2020 35% of American adults stopped drinking during Dry January, that’s up from 23% in 2019, and 21% in 2018. So 35% of American adults did Dry January, you are no longer an outlier. If you say you’re not consuming alcohol is a health choice.

 

12:08

Absolutely. That gave me chills as you were saying that because so many people think that they’re alone, and that they’re doing this in secret. Look at those numbers, there are so many people that are doing this because they want to explore what it feels like to not ingest a mind altering chemical like this. And that’s pretty awesome.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  12:29

Yeah. And when you do things like that, it’s a great way to explore life without alcohol and how you feel. One of the things I know and Michelle, I know you’ve got a great Instagram presence, is I looked up all the top sobriety Instagram hashtags to follow and I will put them all in the show notes. But there are easily 150 hashtags. And I feel like when you stop drinking it, you know some people create a totally new sort of sober alcohol free Instagram account. Or you can just sort of follow some of these hashtags. And what that will do is, again, normalize sobriety for you, normalize that Sober is the New Black, that it’s cool that you’re not alone. Because suddenly you’ll start seeing the sort of universe of sober, curious and sober and alcohol free people out there who are doing really interesting things.

 

13:35

Absolutely. You know, it goes back to that motto of birds of a feather flock together. And so, you know, I used to go into restaurants and being new to sobriety and I would say everybody was drinking except for me. And I had to challenge that and say, okay, Michelle, look at all the people who aren’t drinking for whatever the reason is, so when you talk about Instagram, we get to control who we choose to follow. You want to feel better about ourselves after we leave somebody’s page than we did before we got to their page. So do you mean anonymous or a private Instagram and having it be dedicated to just your sober journey, you are going to meet people that you never would have met and whatever relationship evolves, it’s not because of alcohol, and you’ll see that you are not alone. And just the hacks of recipes and podcasts like yours. There’s so many cool things that we can learn and be educated by by just dipping our toes into this world of sober curiosity. And it’s absolutely amazing people experiences I never would have in a million years thought I would have seen half of this

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  14:57

Hi there. If you’re listening to this episode, and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, the sobriety starter kit.

The sobriety starter kit is an online self study sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step by step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one on one coaching. And the sobriety starter kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it. And when it fits into your schedule. You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time.

This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step by step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking, from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better. You’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach, you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course 

 

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I actually did a whole episode on sober celebrities, just because I always think it’s really cool. You know, everybody might have the perception that life without alcohol is dull and boring, or something that no one would choose unless they quote unquote, had to. And yet you see folks like Kelly Ripa and Drew Barrymore and Bradley Cooper and other people talking, John Mayer, talking about the fact that they decided to stop drinking. Either it wasn’t serving them anymore, or they realized that they were just going to sort of not reach their potential, only have half of their time and energy and creativity available for them. And that wasn’t good enough.

 

17:51

Absolutely. And I think that we look up to those people. So me, Jessica Simpson, Christy Teegan, like all of them, if they’re doing it, and they get kudos and props. There’s so many more people that follow suit because of that. So it’s anybody stand up, you know, there was a Steven Tyler that was just on, he just went back into treatment, because he had a relapse after a surgery. And I think that, you know, I’m proud of him for coming out in public and saying that and showing people that, regardless of where you’re at, on this journey, we never fully have it down. And that it is kind of this evolving pattern of it’s kind of like the stages of grief, you know, where it’s like this, this is an addiction, it can be for some people, and it’s always important to be tapped into our supports and our resources.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  18:40

Yeah, absolutely. And, and it’s an addictive substance. It’s also a habit that’s incredibly hard to break. So the reason I love that, you know, gray area drinking is becoming a term, sober curious as becoming a movement, is that one of the things you need to do as you’re changing your habits is really alter not only your physical environment, but the social circle you surround yourself with, to be exposed to people where the behavior you want to create is the one that celebrated. And that’s where even if people in your current life sort of in real life, as we say, aren’t on the sobriety path, because we tend to surround ourselves with drinkers, you can find that community and inspiration online, and you can look to celebrities and other people to read, you know, and understand that you are not alone and read Quizlet and listen to podcasts and all the good stuff.

 

19:46

Yep, absolutely. And, you know, I know a lot of us are worried about oh, we’re going to lose our friends. Well, if you’re worried about losing a friend, are they really a friend? Right, and, you know, then there’s that fear but that’s not going to hold you back. I love like, with the sober curiosity, how, instead of saying I’m gonna wait for this bad thing to happen before I change my relationship with alcohol, it’s not technically problematic. What I’ve noticed in Dry January, Dry July and other challenges is that if you don’t label yourself or think of forever, and you just keep a goal in mind, if you are unable to maintain or obtain that goal, and you are breaking promises to yourself, that is information in itself about your relationship with alcohol and where it stands. Currently, that is powerful information. That’s not shame. That’s not judgment, that is you examining with information, where you’re at currently. And I think that there’s for me, there’s nothing more powerful than us seeing that for ourselves.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  20:55

Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s very true. So tell us a little bit about you and sort of your journey from drinking to recovery.

 

21:07

Yeah, so my drinking, of course, you know, got really, really bad when I had my second child and just really struggled with postpartum, I decided to leave corporate America thinking that that was just adding and compiling onto my stress, which I was using as a coping tool, alcohol. And of course, just taking the rough edges off a stressful day detaching what I noticed, Casey, is that it was never about the alcohol. It was never I was giving all the credit to the alcohol. But I was detaching from the office, I was traveling across state lines decompressing and processing the day. And I just always thought it was that first glass of wine that just made everything better. And the more that I just kept doing that same activity of daily living, essentially, that habit created and manifested into that addiction where, you know, when people would say, oh, you know, you almost finished a bottle of wine on your own, you know, are you having a problem. And instead of even addressing it, I just got the box wine, so people couldn’t measure it anymore. And then after that, you know, it was just hiding the bottles, gas station cans of wine. 

 

And, you know, I had an intervention, and I was really faced with the reality of, I’m an adult orphan. I know what it’s like to not have parents and I am doing the same thing to my children, I’m eliminating myself from their life. And this is not fair. I, this problem is not just my problem, everybody is affected by buying decisions. And it’s so hard to explain to people when you have that slippery slope and to be chemically dependent on alcohol, that that first drink will get you drunk, you know, you’d be here these models have 1000. You know, one is too many and 1000 is never enough. And it almost felt like I was being taken hostage by myself, I would just literally end up at a supermarket or a liquor store, fighting with myself, I didn’t know how I even really got there. 

 

So I went to treatment. And you know, after treatment, I had to make some really hard decisions. Because when I got back, nothing changed in the sense of my saying triggers my environment who was drinking around me. And that’s where I started the social media of just being anonymous, being a fly on the wall and just saying, I know I can’t be alone in this journey, I need to find my people. And the more I kept watching and getting inspired and reading books and listening to podcasts, I was still drinking. But I was learning too and you know, I always tell myself, if I have a head full of sobriety, drinking is never going to be the same because now I know what it’s doing to me, my body, my children. And that got harder and harder to drink what I knew the true reality that this was not serving me anymore. 

 

So the more I built this community, the more accountability I had, so I couldn’t be as secretive as I wanted to before. And from there, it just manifested into a whole community of people that are everywhere from sober, curious all the way to long term recovery. And it’s just blown up in the sense of what I’m capable of doing. And what we all are capable of doing are so many gifts that we didn’t even realize we had. And I look back and I’m like, you know, this was the hardest part of my life and I hated it happened, but it’ll happen for a reason. And I’m never going to take that for granted. I’m just inspired by everybody that we can do this and we can do this out loud and proud and really trying to like almost like I don’t know the right word of just like motivating these individuals who are curious, but they don’t have to wait for rock bottom, they don’t have to wait until it’s bad enough, in order to just know that it’s not serving you. Let’s take a look at it earlier. And so that’s, that’s a little bit about me and kind of where I, where I came from and where I’m at right now.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  25:23

Yeah. And I think that, you know, the fact that it’s becoming so much more common that more people are doing Dry July, that more articles are in various publications about the sober curious movement. What that helps is, like you said, just normalizing sobriety just making it, if you say, I’m taking a break from alcohol, people are more likely to just say, Oh, that’s cool, versus, you know, in the back of their minds, or my mind back in the day, if you didn’t drink in my mind, you were like, pregnant, an alcoholic. Or since I was a big drinker, I’m like, well, you’re kind of lame. Like, those were the three categories. I didn’t know anyone who didn’t drink, or used to love it and stopped. And now, I feel like it’s so much more common for people to take short breaks, longer breaks from drinking, even if you’re not in the sober world. But the more that even the people around you are familiar with the concept that like, by the way, alcohol is unhealthy, and you can decide not to drink in the same way that some people decide not to eat gluten, or whatever. I think that’s great. It actually kind of cracks me up, obviously, unless you’re celiac, that people were like, well, I’m cutting gluten out of my diet, because it’s not very healthy. And I’m like, Dude, you’re drinking a bottle of wine at night? Like, come on, let’s like deal with the main issue first.

 

27:02

Yep. Yeah, absolutely. And that’s, that’s the fun thing about it is that, you know, they’re/we’re opening up those doors to it’s the third most preventative cause of death here in the United States. That is facts. That is saying that I don’t want to die. I don’t want this cause of cancer. The American Cancer Association just added that alcohol finally that does, yeah. And it’s like, this is exactly why I don’t I’m gonna go ahead and pass but I really appreciate the offer. Because you know, if your mom or anybody that you know, have breast cancer, I know I’m already in a high risk situation, why am I going to put myself into an even higher bracket, when I know that this this leads, this is this leads to cancer. 

 

So your decision, right, and I think so many so much of this is just about the the crowds that you go in and that you hang out with because a true friend isn’t going to care. I have a friend who has celiac disease, and she does can’t eat any gluten. And it’s like, she doesn’t care if people like her or don’t like her like this is life and death for her. And people shouldn’t care about what what I’m drinking and what so and so’s drinking because it doesn’t matter. Right? And I used to think more for me if somebody’s not drinking it. Oh, doesn’t really mater why? No, it’s garbage. It’s not good for you, but more for me. So a compassion and just being kind and let people do whatever they want to eliminate some of that pressure because we put enough on ourself by trying to get this thing out of our everyday activity.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  28:51

And so question for you, you mentioned that you you know, had an intervention you went into treatment, was that a 12 step program model? And then you got out and did you start drinking again? Just when during the time you weren’t blogging, Instagram, whatever?

 

29:13

No. Yes, and then I relapsed after treatment.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  29:18

Okay, so having seen both the 12 step model and the sort of Instagram growth community I’m sure you’ve learned things from both but what are the differences you found, sort of what did you learn from each, what was helpful, what was unhelpful?

 

29:37

Yeah, being in a position I was towards when I decided to go sober, I wanted to have all those. I have to wait for this experience to happen, right? I have to wait for rock bottom, my relationship’s not that bad. And so for me that’s well, steps was extremely helpful because it did get to the point of where it was do or die for me. When I first initially, we went in before it got, quote unquote, too bad. I was terrified. I’m not like them, I don’t have that big of a problem. And so it kind of like, frightened me where I didn’t want to go back because I didn’t feel like I fit in. So I did just that, kept drinking, and realize that I am powerless over this drink. Because I’ve waited so long, I am chemically addicted to this. And I was convinced that would never happen. 

 

So for me to be able to work a program where I knew how to create a new habit and a new routine every single day. And if I showed up, that was at least 60 minutes where I wasn’t going to drink. So that was helpful, because I then shifted my mindset to believe that I have more similarities, but I’m just looking at the differences. And me being a newbie is helping the old timers, because they don’t, they’re constantly reminded of what they’re going to be like and what’s going to happen if they relapse. And I can be motivated and inspired by my elders, right? And so that part was really helpful in the sense of the structure, the community, it’s free, everybody can walk in those doors, if you just come out of treatment, rehab jail, you’re homeless, or houseless. That is a gift in itself. So those are the benefits, I felt, to the 12 steps. 

 

Now, in this kind of cyber world and Instagram world that we’re in with social media, I think it’s amazing, because it is capturing all of the people who aren’t chemically dependent on alcohol. So it’s that curious movement of, oh, wow, this is actually fun. I don’t, I don’t have to wait until bad things happen. I’m starting to notice the heartburn. And I don’t get REM sleep, wasting money on silly things. And it shows other people that they’re not necessarily alcoholics either, and that this is becoming a thing. And I love how we get to talk openly about it and share tips and tricks and recipes. And it’s not such a secret, right, so that we know that it’s been exposed and that we can have these conversations with anybody, even if they live across the entire world. That’s pretty amazing. So I think both of them have really good gifts and good parts. And it’s like that pathway to recovery. Do what works for you and leave the rest.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  32:29

Yeah, I think that’s really helpful. And I think that one of the benefits to the online world is that there isn’t, you know, I attended Alcoholics Anonymous for about four months, the first time, I tried to stop drinking nine years ago, and it didn’t end up being my path, I ended up working with a sober coach and joining you know, an online course in the online community that just felt more aligned with my worldview and an approach to things. But I also think some of the new ways are helpful in making it more cool, more accessible, less of a stigma, because people aren’t being anonymous, and that, therefore there is more of a awareness that way more people are questioning their relationship with alcohol, or deciding to be alcohol free or are sober curious, then you probably would ever know about if they were only if 12 steps was the only option.

 

33:39

Right? Absolutely. And us being busy moms, having the availability where we get to look, it’s pretty much looking at objections, right? What’s in the person’s way of getting the support and help that they need? Well, you don’t have to find a babysitter, you don’t have to keep in traffic, right? It’s virtual. If you’re not ready to talk to anybody and be in person yet, you can download some of these programs and do them lesson by lesson when you have little pockets of time or when your kiddos go to bed, where it’s self paced. So it’s teaching you tools, and etiquette and information and knowledge that is different than driving to a 12 step where it’s process, no cross talk, right? So it’s really, those are the differences. And I know for me, when I first was exploring sobriety, I would have loved to have something at home, to be able to listen to somebody and to work through a workbook or an ebook. It would, I would have devoured all of that information. And I know people

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  34:39

are. 

 

Yeah, I mean, that was helpful for me too, because I know when I did go for about four months, nine years ago, there were two times I would go. I mean one I would when I was working, I would have to ask my husband, hey, I’m gonna go to this meeting for an hour. And that was both awkward. In the quote unquote, asking, but I had a five year old son at the time. So he was like, driving them back. He’s like, so are you going to be gone for an hour and a half, like, three or four times a week, like, that’s kind of a lot. He also didn’t think I was that bad. He thought I was being a little dramatic by stopping I mean, this was just he didn’t get it, he was like, I just want you to cut back, you know, like, just don’t drink every day, you know, as if, like, I hadn’t tried that many, many times before. The second time I stopped drinking, you know, I was working full time with an eight year old and a two year old. But I, like you said, I had a separate coach, I enrolled in a course. So I was listening to sobriety support messages when it fit in my schedule. So on the drive to my morning workout on the drive home on a walk during my lunchtime at work, in the evening, when I was rocking my daughter to sleep, those were the times when I was tapping into that. And with the online community, Facebook group support, I was posting and getting feedback, like, when I was at the bar for happy hour with my work colleagues from the bathroom, I’d be like, yikes, I’m going in and then take a break to go to the restroom and see all these amazing messages of support and tips and tricks popping up.

 

36:25

Me too, I did this exact same thing. It’s so many of us do that. And there’s nothing like having our phones in our back pocket to utilize because we have that community of people that are just going to root for us for every little small victory. Because for a lot of us, we would have stopped if we could have, right? It’s of moderation, we would love to do that. My husband said the same thing to me. I wish that I could just have one every so often to unfortunately, I am unable to do that after multiple years of a tense.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  37:00

Yes. So yes, I just finally figured out that it was easier. And I was happier. And thought about drinking so much less if I finally got away from it. Rather than constantly trying to limit, moderate, decide when, decide not, debate all that kind of crap. It just took up so much of my headspace and heart space and everything else.

 

37:24

It’s exhausting, is what it is. Yeah, it is absolutely overwhelming and exhausting. So when we get to put the stuff in our head of sobriety and motivation, like you were just talking about during little pockets of time, are the noises in our head. It’s like that devil an angel, I always say it’s like, you want to quiet the noise. But you don’t want to drink but you know, if you drink, you’re going to quiet the noise. So if you take it off the table, it’s a non negotiable today or for the rest of my life. I cannot pick up and eventually the addict, the addiction or just the thoughts and the noise. Do they decrease? Right? The level, the Oh, yes. But it takes a while?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  38:13

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I occasionally, you know, one of the things I love about the sober curiosity movement and Dry January and all those things is it’s less black and white. I mean, back in the day, it really did feel like if you stopped drinking, when you used to be a drinker, people automatically assumed that you had quote, unquote, a problem with alcohol or whatever it was, which may or may not be true, but at the same time, you know, that’s what stops a lot of people from experiencing how good alcohol free life can be the idea that nobody stops unless they have a quote unquote, real problem. Or if I stop, I’ll be, I’ll feel stigmatized or people will judge me. And you know, I just remember at work, talking to one of my colleagues who I’ve never played Bunco. But do you know what Bunco is? People play that and drink a lot. And she had gone to some Bunco party and was super hungover the next day. And then the day after she says to me, you know, we were talking about the fact that I don’t drink anymore. And she was like, well, you chose not to drink. You didn’t have to stop. I mean, you didn’t have a problem with alcohol. Or maybe she asked me Do you have a problem? Did you know it was present tense? Do you have a problem with alcohol? And I was like, Yeah, I haven’t had a drink in three, four years. I have zero problem with alcohol. Like you were hungover yesterday. Right? And it just, it kind of cracks me up the idea that if you don’t drink it’s sort of antiquated that people assume that you have a problem with alcohol. I feel like that’s shifting.

 

40:03

I think it is. I really believe that it is. And I think that people, that’s their stuff, right? That’s their weight and inventory and judgment that they have to handle. I tried to like, bless and release some of that, because it’s a heavy load right there, modeling something just as much and are wondering why and how I’m doing this. Use it as inspiration, there’s room for all of us to get sober. There is no competition, right collaborations, the best way and there’s enough to go around for everybody. But I think a lot of people put up guards, you know, and just get really super defensive. Because even if you’re just a lawn drinker, and you just don’t rub it in your face, you know, it’s just like, I’m pro sobriety. It doesn’t mean that I’m anti drinking, just because I’m proud to say that I am fighting every day for something that’s trying to destroy me, essentially killed me. And I have to have that confidence and that, you know, ability to really say it out loud, because if I don’t I know what happens. So don’t think that I’m shaming you. Because you are. I’m just proud of myself, because I’m not. And I think we have work to do in that area. But the more people that just stand up and say, Hey, I’m a non drinker.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  41:16

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think that we’ve come a huge way. I mean, there are so many alcohol free events that are really interesting there. You know, the non alcoholic bars or the sober bars sandbar was doing a tour of the whole country having a pop bar pop up and a bar in Seattle, there are Daybreaker events, which are sort of morning alcohol free dance parties, which are super cool. I’m an ambassador for athletic Brewing Company, they are now bringing their beer to the end of Ironman and marathons and 5k’s and 10k’s because it’s so crazy that people serve actual alcohol after that, because it’s so bad for your your recovery of your muscles and, and your you know, just ability to compete at a high level. And you and I both were at the she recovers Miami event, which is a super cool event for people who are in recovery. Just 500 women, silent dance party incredible speakers lounging by the pool. I mean, what was your experience there? Like?

 

42:38

It was amazing. It was like getting to hug and squeeze these women that I never would have met if I wouldn’t have gotten on this, the silly acts of social media. And so to build those bonds with them, the most vulnerable time in our life to really authentically get to know these human beings without the masks. And then to be able to actually meet them and spend the weekend with them. It was amazing. It was, it was priceless. It was just like, I never dreamed that I’ve ever meet half of those women. And because I write it and because of She Recovers, that was, these are lifelong friendships that I know we’re gonna have forever. And the beauty is, it does. It’s not focused around alcohol, there’s substance to our relationship.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  43:26

Yeah. I mean, I thought that was very cool. I got to meet lots and lots of people who I’ve interviewed on the podcast, which was very cool for me, because I feel like we, you know, you we talk we become friends. I know a lot about you. And we’ve never met in person. I got to meet women who have all chosen to be alcohol free, but through many, many different paths. You know, I got to meet, you know, people who do the luckiest club and then seven of my coaching clients who I’d never met in person who live all over the United States. So that was incredibly cool. And I got to meet women from the sober moms squad. And there was a huge group of them there. And they were really cool and really nice. And I’ve you know, been hanging out with a few of them back here in

 

44:22

Seattle. Yes, there. There is a lot of us in Washington State. Yeah, it was a represented several months ago. I definitely represented, it was, it was fantastic to see you’re right. And it’s like I forgot I had some clients there too. And it’s like, wow, you never would have imagined it’s pretty, pretty magical. Really?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  44:43

Yeah. Well, so tell us about Sober Mom Squad and how that came about because I know that you were one of the women who sort of raised your hand and volunteered right at the beginning of it.

 

44:55

Yeah, yeah. Emily is the founder and really, we just put up this question on Instagram, which was, you know, how can we be of service because a lot of people are really struggling. And we’re just like we’re barely hanging on. And some of us are in long term recovery, that this is just really hard that we’re on lockdown and homeschooling. So the five of us got together and just started, you know, a small free group that was just moms need a place to dump their thoughts to process to feel and know that they’re not alone. So topics from parent teen to marriage to motherhood to sobriety, grief and loss, and it really just blew up, there was 1000s of women who are like, me, too. Me too. And it just now we have 25 need meetups virtually every single week, trying to cover themselves all witching hours. With group coaching webinars that come through, we’ve got an awesome app for people who don’t want to be on social media. 

 

It’s incredible, because we have this key, I think moms are just like, this population is the hardest season, at least me personally, that I’ve ever been in. And big alcohol does a really good job of marketing and preying on women that are the most vulnerable in their time of learning how to navigate this world with you know, either going back to work or not having postpartum depression, transitioning into a role that were responsible for these tiny humans that don’t come with an instruction manual. It’s really hard. But you know what life’s really hard. But drinking helps, and it can take away all your problems for a while until it compounds into more problems than we ever dreamed of. So we’re doing really good at just all women and moms just using and utilizing our strengths and our support to cheer each other on than to tear each other down. Yeah. And I’ve actually found

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  47:01

more support in the sober community of women, the alcohol free community of women, just in terms of honesty and understanding and suggestions and being there for me, then I found sometimes in my friends who I’d been close to for 1520 years, because you know, when you decide to give up your your main coping tool, which for me was wine, you need other people who get it, and who can empathize with you, who you can be honest with about how you’re struggling, and to give you suggestions and hold your hand to get through it. And even my friends from high school and college in my early 20s. If they don’t struggle with alcohol at all, or if they’re not ready to stop drinking, or they’re not at that point, they can’t quite understand all of our triggers and struggles and you know, how we feel?

 

48:03

Absolutely. That’s why it’s so important for us to share with our community or our tribe, when we have these small little victories because they’re massive to us. And they’re not going to mean a whole lot to people who don’t know how hard this journey can be. So it’s like, cheering root for you. Because you deserve praise. And kudos for putting a boundary up or you know, not going to this event because it was going to have alcohol, whatever the reason is, we get it. It’s really that hard. And we’re really that proud of you. So yeah, there’s relationships like me, that you were just mentioning from high school and grade school college. I’ve known them and their families for so long. But I don’t know as much about them as I do with my sober sisters. Because it’s just like, vulnerable. They know everything about us, right? It’s just like, we pour everything into this community. And some of my friends from decades ago don’t even know information that I’ve shared. Yeah, so it’s pretty amazing.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  49:07

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I have some, some people from high school or college or my work world, who are like, Oh, I’ve listened to your podcast or this interview, and I’m like, alright, you know, all my shit. That’s cool. But usually, if they’re reaching out and telling me it’s because they think it’s cool or something resonated with them, or, you know, all of that kind of stuff. I mean, I think vulnerability does attract people, the right people and allows them to be vulnerable with you, which actually establishes closer bonds.

 

49:45

Agree? Absolutely.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  49:47

So what are some of the most exciting things you see in sort of recovery becoming cool becoming more mainstream? You know, what do you really like?

 

50:00

I am loving the fact that restaurants and bars are catching on to the requests for zero proof options. They’re popping up actually on the menus now, which I think is amazing. And it’s not just a Shirley Temple and root beer and a box of milk. They’re like actually delicious crafted mocktails or sales without the liquor in them, and they’re carrying zero proof beers. That is huge that people are going to have, they can go out and feel special to have a nice fancy drink that isn’t going to jeopardize their sobriety and whether they pretend like I did that it was a regular cocktail, it felt safe to me to be able to feel kind of camouflaged in. And I think that that is an important tool for people if that works early in sobriety. And until I was competent enough to not care. It got me through so it served a purpose. And that is one of the biggest things I see in the sober community that really excites me is that more people are willing to talk about there. It’s just not serving them and the options becoming available. 

 

Yeah,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  51:14

I mean, the non alcoholics were zero proof beer wine cocktail, you know, spirits market is really exploding. I mean the alcohol manufacturers or I kind of like it better if they are just non alcoholic beer Wine Spirits manufacturers are completely taking notice because it is actually one of the only areas market growth within the sector. And so that leads to so much more innovation and so much more choice and availability for us. I saw you know, my favorites are, you know, athletic Brewing Company and a Beer Groovy. And partake those happened to be my favorites. But I loved seeing that Heineken was advertising it 0.0 and a beer at the Super Bowl. And one of my friends just texted me that Guinnesses 0.0 stout, which just became available in the US. So there’s something for everybody.

 

52:23

Absolutely it. I love that the marketing, it’s slow, but the football. You know, the NFL had that during halftime, I don’t know if people caught on to the Olympics commercial that was on about sobriety. We had Google, you know, light up their corporate headquarters, purple on Recovery Month, they’ve put a 24 hour chip in their commercials. It’s getting in there in different ways and getting the support and attention that it needs. Because it should be celebrated for people who were making really hard decisions. And I think like we talked about at the very beginning, like if somebody stands up of a, you know, a celebrity or an influencer, it’s much more received. So it’s like, oh, wow, Google is doing this. And the NFL is doing this. This is kind of cool, right? So it’s getting more attention and more focus. I don’t care who it is that came up with the idea. I just want light shined on the fact that it’s okay to be a sober person and have options. 

 

And

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  53:29

just having the conversation. I mean, I remember when I saw Jennifer Garner and her good friend Judy Greer did an Instagram live talking about you know, at what point do we worry about our alcohol consumption during the pandemic, just opening up that conversation was amazing and got a lot of people talking. And like I said, even Kelly Ripa and Drew Barrymore saying she hasn’t had a drink in two and a half years. Jane Fonda just announced that she stopped drinking a while ago. And her show Grace and Frankie or Frankie and Grace like is so boozy. It drives me crazy. I mean, they are like 80 year old women who are constantly throwing back the cocktails and then Jane Fonda who’s one of the actresses in there said You know, I just don’t have that many years left and I wanted to you know, decided I didn’t want to live them at half mast.

 

54:32

That is good. God is amazing. Yeah. Even Fuller, or Full House the Joey David. Yeah, me, too. I mean, there’s so

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  54:41

many. John Stamos. I mean, there are more celebrities and famous people and musicians who have chosen not to drink than you can even imagine. I absolutely love. I’m a little addicted right now to the podcast Smartlist. Do you know that one? 

 

Oh my god, it’s so good. 

 

So it’s Jason Bateman and Will Arnet who are together on Arrested Development. And I’m a big Jason Bateman fan from way back in the day. And Sean Hayes who was just Jack on Will and Grace. And every week they bring on a celebrity guests, one of them chooses it. And they just chat with them. So they’ve had Jon Hamm and Jennifer Aniston and Courtney Cox, and tons of other ones, Dax Shepard and a whole ton. But Jason Bateman and Willow Arnet are sober. And so I love that podcast, it’s just the perfect combination of smart conversation and celebrity gossip that appeals to me. But there’s also armchair expert with Daz Shepherd. So just these really cool things that can tap you, can tap into that are non recovery focused, but also recovery oriented, if that makes sense. 

 

100%

 

56:01

and just slipping it in there organically is people are taking note and it’s planting seeds. Oh, I remember that person doesn’t do this. This person doesn’t do that. Well, the fact that we thought everybody drank it’s not true, right. It’s something that we tell ourselves to continue on with our drinking. But challenge I’m looking up, I don’t know if you did this, Casey, but like when I first decided to get sober. I was like, okay, sober celebrities. Let’s look up and see who is because I think I’m the only one. And so by challenging yourself in that way. Don’t use those big words like everybody, I’m never gonna know all that. It’s like, no, there’s tons of people who don’t drink. And I’m going to show you through Google, just that. I

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  56:45

used to my girlfriends and I used to like text each other pictures when we were just like as a funny way of hot sober guys who don’t drink so there are a shocking number like they would just text me a picture of Rob Lowe or you know, Jason Bateman like I said, I’m a fan or you know, Robert Downey Jr., Shirtless Bradley Cooper, I mean, that can that can really improve your mood on a hard day. Oh, yeah.

 

57:13

You got me at Bradley Cooper. Yeah,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  57:15

Yeah, that’s very cool. Well, so tell me what you’re working on these days.

 

57:22

Oh, gee, I have a lot of my sleep right now. I purchase property, I would love to my goal is to build an inpatient treatment program for women to be able to bring their kids that is really near and dear to my heart. I am just finishing up a second book that I’m working on, one of them will be out on the 27th of December, which is super cool. And I just got word, it’s going to be in Target, which I literally had my moment of bawling because for three years, I’ve been going to target taking pictures of myself in the book section, manifesting one day this is going to happen, there will be something sobriety inside of target. So that is huge from a girl who just literally was a drunk in her closet, suicidal, not wanting to be here. So it’s amazing to come so far, and this amount of years, to see that if I just keep going, the miracle will happen. And so those two books are in the works. 

 

I am, I’m actually just redesigning my website now trying to get some new content up. Um, and I am partnering with another sober woman, mom and the community to really work on addiction awareness in the workplace. So bridging the gap between employees and their companies and creating more conversations and educational trainings around workplace wellness, because it’s a buzzword that’s gone on for quite some time. And a lot of employers offer flex spending. And hey, if you go see a dietitian, and you know, get your BMI or go meet with a mental health practitioner, then we’re going to give you a treadmill or something. So a lot of organizations are adding underneath the umbrella of workplace wellness, they’re adding in the addiction module, which I think is absolutely fantastic. And so that is a project that is going to become pretty big here pretty soon. So education of awareness, any opportunity I get. I’m going to educate people about addiction and they can make their own decisions that as you know, we

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  59:35

call it. 

 

Yeah, no, I think that’s huge. And I was just talking with Lisa Smith, who wrote Girl Walks Out of a Bar and is a co-host of the podcast for Recovery Rocks. And she does a lot of work in that corporate space specifically for lawyers and law firms around education around addiction.

 

59:58

Yeah, she, she’s amazing. And she has honed in on the same professionals that she works with and right because she’s a lawyer and speaking to those people high burnout, right high risk. Often, we don’t want to talk about the doctors and lawyers and pilots that also struggle with substance use, because we have all these kind of stool that they couldn’t possibly, right. And that’s not that’s not the truth, and they need help and treatment and support, just like everybody else does.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:00:33

Yeah. And again, it is the worry about the stigma, the career backlash, what people will think that is preventing them from getting help for what they’re working for. And the more that we can, you know, normalize that this is an addictive substance that, you know, with enough exposure, you’re going to go down the road of becoming addicted to, the easier it will be for folks to get support and move on with their lives in

 

1:01:03

a healthy way. 

 

Exactly. And that’s exactly why I didn’t get help, as I was like, you know, I teach this stuff, this isn’t supposed to happen to me, I’m embarrassed, I can’t show face. So just continued on. And it just got worse and worse and worse and give people the support resources and help they need and move on with your life. Yeah, you know, that’s what we need to know is we need to embrace people from wherever they’re at. If you, if you’re ready, there’s, there’s options available to you, and you’re not going to be shamed for it.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:01:36

Yeah, yeah. And I think that, you know, if you are in that place, I mean, podcasts are a fabulous place to start, because obviously, it’s anonymous, you can tap into it on your own. I mean, I think it is incredibly normal to have the fear that if you talk about the fact you’re struggling with alcohol, you don’t want anyone to know about that. And what I wouldn’t, you know, I actually work with a bunch of doctors and nurses and social workers and even judges who are like, I don’t want to go to a 12 step meeting, or even moms in a small town. So there are a ton of options out there. I mean, you can do private one-on-one coaching, you can create an anonymous Instagram account, you can join some of these private groups, which I love, where if you are there for support, you know, everyone else is there for that too. And you can always create an anonymous account if that is what’s holding you back. So if you are fearful or hesitant about reaching out in some ways for support, just know there are other ways that you can get it.

 

1:02:51

Absolutely. And you know, not everybody feels comfortable going to their doctor right away. I know, that was my biggest fear was I didn’t want my chart flagged and go into the hospital. And it ended up eventually getting documented that I was in for alcohol protocols. So it’s like, you know, but there are a lot of options through the medical model, too. There’s therapists and there’s IOP, AND outpatient and residential treatment and anti craving medication. It’s important to like mention that a lot of that it’s like the substances. So alcohol is simply the coping tool, right? You’re coping, you’re using it because something else underneath the surface is bothering you, right, you’re worried you’re grieving, or you’re trying to heal, you’re avoiding. 

 

But what is it and for me, it was the depression and the postpartum. So an antidepressant, along with therapy, yoga, Instagram, like it can be a holistic approach that isn’t going to make sense to somebody else. And that’s okay. But what for you, you need to know what your options are. And at least give it a shot before you say, Oh, this is for me, right? And so much out there. We don’t have to google anymore. Am I an alcoholic? Know what steps next to take because people who don’t have a problem with alcohol, don’t wonder if they have a problem with alcohol and Google themselves. So you have information you need at that point.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:04:20

And I feel like there’s so much out there now, if you find one source of support, and if you’re listening to this podcast, you know, this is a great one. But it’s like pulling a thread where suddenly you learn about this thing and that thing and join this and meet people and you know, it’s like this divine breadcrumbs that just lead you to whatever it is that’s going to attract you and make life without alcohol feel good, which is what it should feel like not a punishment, but a sort of transformational cool, exciting, you know, new phase of our lives. We’re allowed to change and evolve in a positive way. 

 

Oh,

 

1:05:01

absolutely. I always tell everybody, I’m not going to tell you to stop drinking, what I want to do is encourage you and inspire you and support you, and living a life that you love so much that you don’t want to drink anymore. That’s the goal, right? And through this process through this journey with other people, and the tools and resources that are available, we can get there, right, you can imagine at the beginning, not doing anything with our concert and camping without alcohol, but you don’t have the tools, the support the competence and the friendship, to even imagine that to be remotely fun or possible for you. So we all have to back up and go day by day, and just start saying, Hey, I’m gonna see if I can go the weekend without drinking. I’m gonna take some inventory on how many days I do drink. Are there any patterns to my drinking? I know, ladies that I’ve worked with every other Friday’s payday. And that was a trigger. They didn’t even put it together. There was another lady that her ex husband had kids. So she would isolate and struggle and drink more because she didn’t have her children. So there’s always patterns and information, like you said, breadcrumbs if we reverse engineer and figure out why we’re doing what we’re doing, and we can fill it with more productive, healthy ways of coping. It’s that’s just what starts it off. Right? Yeah. Have this can’t unknow

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:06:33

Yeah, absolutely. Well, so what are your upcoming books about?

 

1:06:39

So one of them is a sobriety workbook and journal. So being able to document and the importance of taking inventory and documenting your journey as a tool and a reflection through the process and in hindsight of the process. So that is the journal Living Sober, Living Free. So it’s a guided journal for women who want to explore alcohol free living. And the second one that’s coming out this year is an entrepreneurial book. So it’s multi authored, and talking about how we went all in on whatever it is that we are working on. So I’m going to talk about going all in and advocating for the recovery community and what that looks like. And then I’ll have my memoir come out in 2023. Wow, that’s super exciting. You’ve got a lot in the works. Yes, yes. Lots of stuff, lots of stuff behind the scenes, but all good things too. Hopefully I’m doing a lot of keynote, speaking to some a lot of awareness inside the workplace inside of treatment programs, and just educating people to make their own decision. But these are hard conversations to have. But I think that they’re really important conversations to have. That’s why I’m here. Grab those stations.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:08:04

Very cool. And where can people find you?

 

1:08:08

My website is Recovery is the New Black. They can find me on Instagram and I have a Facebook private community as well as a business page there, which was Recovery is the New Black.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:08:20

Okay, that’s perfect. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I’ve loved this conversation.

 

1:08:25

Thank you, Casey.

 

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:08:29