Can Your Drinking Habits Change When You Use Motivational Psychology?

If you’re ready to take control of your relationship with alcohol and embrace positive change as the reason stop drinking, exploring a motivational psychology approach can be a game-changer. 

Motivational psychology can help you change your drinking habits by giving you a framework to understand the driving forces behind your drinking behavior, overcome challenges, and cultivate a positive mindset..  

Changing your relationship with alcohol is hard. You’re breaking long-standing habits, social rituals, go-to coping mechanisms and navigating daily cravings and temptations. But identifying your causes of stress, self-doubt and negative thought patterns, you get to overcome them and stay committed to your goals to live a healthier and happier life. 

By tapping into the power of motivation, you can break free from destructive patterns and embrace a healthier, more fulfilling lifestyle without guilt or deprivation and from an approach of empowerment, compassion and self-care.

I asked Andy Ramage to teach us how to use motivational psychology to transform our drinking habits and lives.

Andy is one of the world’s top alcohol-free coaches, holding a Masters Degree at distinction in Positive Psychology & Coaching Psychology. He’s a master practitioner of Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) and a mindfulness-based awareness coach. 

Andy has also published two best-selling books, ‘The 28-Day Alcohol-Free Challenge’ and ‘Let’s Do This: How To Use Motivational Psychology To Change Your Life’ and co-founded both the OneYearNoBeer movement, and more recently the Dryy alcohol-free app and community.

You can use motivational psychology to change your drinking habits in six different ways:

  • Uncover underlying motivations: Motivational psychology helps you understand the deeper reasons driving your drinking habits, allowing you to address the root causes effectively.
  • Overcome obstacles: By utilizing psychological techniques, you can navigate challenges such as cravings, temptations, and emotional triggers, increasing your resilience and commitment to change.
  • Foster a positive mindset: Motivational psychology helps you shift your perspective from a place of guilt or deprivation to one of self-empowerment and self-care. With a positive outlook, you’ll have more confidence and self-belief in your ability to change your relationship with alcohol. 
  • Tailored strategies: Using motivational psychology can help you develop personalized strategies based on your unique situation, finding coping mechanisms and alternatives to unhealthy drinking habits that work for you.
  • Cultivate support: Motivational psychology emphasizes the importance of surrounding yourself with a supportive network of individuals who understand and encourage your goals, enhancing your motivation and success.
  • Lasting change: By utilizing motivational psychology techniques, you can create sustainable, long-term changes in your drinking habits and develop a healthier, more balanced lifestyle.

In this episode, Casey and Andy dive deep into how to change your drinking using motivational psychology:

  • Why Andy quit drinking 10 years ago when he found himself stressed out, overweight, unfit, unhealthy, unmotivated and unhappy
  • The benefits and positive experiences gained from abstaining from alcohol, such as better sleep, improved relationships, increased mental clarity, and overall well-being. 
  • The fears both Andy and Casey had about the impact of stopping drinking might have on their relationships, careers and ability to have fun, unwind, celebrate and cope with stress
  • The six streams of positivity: nutrition, sleep, movement, quiet time + meditation, connection with others, and removing alcohol
  • The difference between positive psychology, motivational psychology and toxic positivity
  • Why many wellbeing experts overlook alcohol as a primary contributing factor to stress, isolation, low energy, poor sleep and unhappiness

  • Why perfectionism can trip you up in your alcohol-free journey because an all or nothing approach stops you from learning from slip-ups as part of the growth process
  • How to start your alcohol-free journey with tactical breaks from drinking for a month, two months or 100 days instead of focusing on forever

If you’re tired of giving up on your goals and are ready to make a lasting change, then this episode is a must listen. It will provide the guidance and motivation you need to succeed.

Resources mentioned in the episode:

Ep. 34: Quit Drinking With Identity Based Habits

Ep. 35: Break Your Habit of Drinking in Four Steps – Change Your Cue, Craving, Response + Reward with Atomic Habits

Ep. 36: The Habits Tipping Point – When Choosing Not To Drink Becomes Easier? The Habits Tipping Point

Ep. 154: 5 Types Of Perfectionism And How To Make Them Work For You

Learn about the Neuro-Linguistic Programming approach to therapy 

What is NLP? 

20 Most Popular Theories of Motivation in Psychology

Martin Seligman & Positive Psychology: Theory and Practice  

3 types of motivation that can inspire you to do anything 

John Grinder Awaken the Giant Within (Audible Audio Edition)

Ready to drink less + live more?

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My proven, step-by-step sober coaching program will teach you exactly how to stop drinking  — and how to make it the best decision of your life.

Save your seat in my FREE MASTERCLASS, 5 Secrets To Successfully Take a Break From Drinking 

Grab the Free 30-Day Guide To Quitting Drinking, 30 Tips For Your First Month Alcohol-Free.

Connect with me for free sober coaching tips, updates + videos on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest and TikTok @hellosomedaysober.

Connect with Andy Ramage

Andy Ramage is a former professional footballer with a master’s degree in Positive Psychology. He is co-founder of the hugely successful motivational site One Year No Beer.

Ten years ago, Andy began studying wellbeing as he was materially successful but

stressed out, overweight, unfit, unhealthy, unmotivated and unhappy. Bewildered by his

own lack of drive he began to study motivation. This led to an Open University degree and later Master of Science degree in Positive Psychology and Coaching Psychology. 

Andy is co-author of The 28-Day Alcohol-free Challenge and speaks regularly about motivation at events. He is also 45 lbs lighter, his body fat has dropped from 30% to 10% and he is a plant-based diet lover

Andy firstly co-founded a world-leading behavioral change platform (OYNB) which is a 28, 90 or 365-day alcohol-free challenge, inspiring over 100,000 people to transform their relationship with alcohol. And his latest venture, Seneca Performance is revolutionizing corporate wellness through its unique mind, body and lifestyle management program for elite business professionals.

Andy is also the author of two best-selling books and is one of only a few coaches to hold a Masters degree in coaching psychology and positive psychology. Andy’s unique background, education and experience make him one of the world’s leading behavioral change experts and performance coaches. He also regularly speaks about behavioral change and peak performance.

Learn more about Andy and how he can support you on your alcohol free journey at

Coach accreditation

Purchase his books, The 28-Day Alcohol-free Challenge and Let’s Do This!: How to use motivational psychology to change your habits and change your life on Amazon!

Follow on Facebook @Andy Ramage

Follow on Instagram @andyramageofficial

Stay connected on LinkedIn Andrew Ramage – Co-Founder the Dryy app

Connect with Casey

Take a screenshot of your favorite episode, post it on your Instagram and tag me @caseymdavidson and tell me your biggest takeaway!

Want to read the full transcript of this podcast episode? Scroll down on this page.


Are you looking for the best sobriety podcast for women? The Hello Someday Podcast was created specifically for sober curious women and gray area drinkers ready to stop drinking, drink less and change their relationship with alcohol.

Host Casey McGuire Davidson, a certified life and sobriety coach and creator of The 30-Day Guide to Quitting Drinking and The Sobriety Starter Kit Sober Coaching Course, brings together her experience of quitting drinking while navigating work and motherhood, along with the voices of experts in personal development, self-care, addiction and recovery and self-improvement. 

Whether you know you want to stop drinking and live an alcohol-free life, are sober curious, or are in recovery this is the best sobriety podcast for you.

A Top 100 Mental Health Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of podcasts globally, The Hello Someday Podcast is the best sobriety podcast for women.

In each episode Casey will share the tried and true secrets of how to drink less and live more.

Learn how to let go of alcohol as a coping mechanism, how to shift your mindset about sobriety and change your drinking habits, how to create healthy routines to cope with anxiety, people pleasing and perfectionism, the importance of self-care in early sobriety, and why you don’t need to be an alcoholic to live an alcohol-free life. 

Be sure to grab the Free 30-Day Guide To Quitting Drinking right here.

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Learn more:


Can Motivational Psychology Change Your Drinking Habits? With Andy Ramage


drinking, alcohol, people, years, love, coaching, life, Golden Buddha, world, break, night, day, stopped, thought, boring, podcast, middle lane, learning, business, positive thinking, motivational play, non-alcohol, nonalcoholic, Motivational Psychology, change, positive psychology, drinking habits, alcohol-free

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Andy Ramage


Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a buzz, how to sit with your emotions when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Hey there, today we are talking about


Motivational Psychology And How You Can Use Motivational Psychology To Change Your Drinking Habits.


I am really excited because my guest today is Andy Ramage. He’s one of the world’s top qualified Coaches holding a Master’s Degree at Distinction in Positive Psychology and Coaching Psychology and has applied for a PhD to start later this year. And he is also a Master Practitioner of NLP, and qualified Mindfulness Based Awareness Coach, and he has published two best-selling books. The 28 Day Alcohol-Free Challenge, and Let’s Do This! How To Use Motivational Psychology To Change Your Life.


And he’s often cited as the World’s #1 Alcohol-Free Performance Coach, having co-founded both the One Year No Beer Movement, and more recently, the Dry Alcohol-Free App and Community.


He also spends most of his time training the next wave of Coaches on his accredited diploma in Positive Psychology and trains existing Coaches in the specialism of Alcohol-Free Coaching. More than that Andy is just the nicest guy. I’ve loved getting to know him. And he has so much great stuff to teach us.


So, Andy, welcome to the pot.


Welcome. That was an intro. No, but it was great.



Thank you. Thank you for that. No, I’m thrilled to be here. You know how much I love despite haven’t been around it for much. 10 years now. And it’s just lovely to see the success of the podcast. And I love everything you’re doing. So yeah, delighted to be a part and honored to be part of the show today.


Casey McGuire Davidson  03:08

Yeah, I love your approach. I love how it incorporates psychology plus coaching plus habit change. And I think the women listening to this podcast, are going to get a lot out of it in terms of new tools, new ideas, new approaches that they can use to change their relationship with alcohol or stop the drinking completely.



Fabulous. Yeah. And I think all of this boils back down to behavioral change, isn’t it? Really, I think for those in the middle lane before we even get into, and we spoke about this off air. That was me someone that would drink averagely heavily, sometimes not at all, sometimes moderately, which is probably about 70% of the adult population in that space. Really, it’s about behavioral change. So, a lot of the tools and techniques in the book, really, you could apply to anything, let alone alcohol, it could be to your nutrition, it could be to exercise. I think that’s what’s great about this space, you learn a set of skills that you can apply to one area. And it’s the same set of skills you can apply to a nutrition and your movement. And I think that makes it even more powerful.


Casey McGuire Davidson  04:08

Yeah, absolutely. Well, so you mentioned you were sort of in that middle lane. I sort of think of gray area drinking. Will you tell us a little bit about what motivated you to stop drinking? And was it 10 years ago now?



Yeah, I mean, and it started prior to that. It started probably two years prior to that. So probably 12 years ago, actually what happened? Is that true for abs? My backstory as a Professional Footballer. I got injured when I was 19.


Unfortunately, my dream was taken away from me, although I had a relative amount of success. I absolutely loved it. I found myself traveling the world and then in the busy trading pits of the London Stock Exchange’s effectively, and I love that environment tubes. Electric was fast paced, was incredibly boozy as you can imagine, really social type of industry. And fast forward 10 years after that, I put on free stoning way and You know, it was, um, terribly unfair, unhealthy, doing everything that shouldn’t be doing drinking too much like everyone else.


Was it problematic to the point of rock bottom or addiction or any of those things? Absolutely not. I don’t identify with any of those things. But I was in that middle lane, I was drinking too much. But who isn’t, is the truth of who isn’t drinking too much, pretty much everyone is drinking too much. So that was me. And I think it was a moment of reflection. In that space that I just started to figure out. Hold on a minute, I looked around at those other people that were “more successful” than me in my industry. And they’re all struggling, unfit, overweight, broken homes, broken bodies, broken minds. And I just thought, I don’t aspire to any of that. And by fluke, I read this book by a guy called, Anthony Robbins. I’m sure many of you be familiar, big, red book. And I didn’t think I needed that book because I was super-duper broken. Why did I need self-development, or I didn’t need any of that stuff. And it’s sat on my bedside table for months. And I don’t even know how it got there. It was. It ended up being a bit of a gift from heavens above or whatever way you want to dress it up, because I picked up that book one day out of desperation. So, I was so bored, and men, and just plateau in life. And it genuinely started to change my life. And in there, I read about Anthony Robbins, and trained with this guy called John Grinda, who was the co-founder of NLP, and formatting, if I can train with that guy, and I Googled it, and there was an opportunity to train with him. So, I invested in it, took the time off work. I had no idea what I was going to do with this thing trained to become a Coach. I wasn’t going to do anything. I just wanted to see how my mind worked. And it fundamentally sounds like over the top, transformed my life, it was learning the skills to help other people reach their full potential that ultimately helped me a lot mine because all that learning is filters for you first, that was a bit all the tools or the techniques.


So, I started to apply them to myself, to my thinking. I ended up losing the way. I, then, learn all these new core skills to actually start looking at all the other areas of my life. And the big thing that jumped out at me was alcohol. It was like this elephant in the room. Like, so many people. It’s a blind spot, isn’t it? Alcohol, like, I was guilty. I was running around trying to exercise, couldn’t get consistent. Trying to eat nice nutritional food couldn’t get consistent in that trying to meditate, too anxious to meditate. I was trying to do all of these things, apart from addressing the whopping great obvious thing that I can see so clearly now, but I couldn’t see at the time, which was alcohol. So, I owe it to that Coach Training Program in many ways that gave me the introspection and the awareness to think, Oh, hold on a minute. Wonder is this alcohol thing, and then I tried to stop it. And I found it really difficult. Not again, because there was a physical problem. I had a social problem with it. I was a broker identified, and I built my identity around being that guy. A larger than life, sort of big drinking party guy. You want some fun, you make a call, I’m going to take you out, and I’m going to entertain you. And that’s how I built my business.


In my mind, it’s my wife. In my mind, my best friends. So, the thought of challenging that persona that I built around alcohol is so incredibly scary. I thought, genuinely, I was fearful. Was my wife going to just run off with a really super cool postman that has a couple of drinks? She’s banned me from saying that on podcast in case the postman ever listens.


Casey McGuire Davidson  08:16

It’s like why the postman?



She went super late. The postman is going to listen to this podcast and think I chose that man.


Casey McGuire Davidson  08:24

I think that’s so interesting, because so many of us, even if we’re not the larger than life, ex-star, who is a broker feels like so much of our identity. So many of our relationships are tied to drinking. I mean, we hang out with other drinkers. I literally described myself to people.


Oh, I’m a red wine girl, as in, I live in Seattle. I work in Corporate Marketing. I’m married. I’m a read one girl. I have two kids. Like it was a fundamental part of who I thought I was. And I talked to so many women who’ve been drinking, since you know, high school, college who were like, I don’t even know who I am. If I’m not this person, and that’s what you were describing. But before we jump in, just because you’re from the UK, former professional footballer, that’s professional soccer. Correct. Okay, yes. Okay. Yeah. Don’t Do you know how many pounds that is? It’s 42 pounds. All right, perfect. And NLP? I know what it is. But if someone doesn’t know,

it’s Neuro Linguistic Programming. It’s like a user manual for your brain. So, this Coaching tool and technique, very cool.


Casey McGuire Davidson  09:41

All right. I’m going to let you go. I just was like, I got to translate it for Google Trends.



Because yeah, exactly. From the UK to the US. Yes. So yeah, here I was having this experience as you my number one fear and I like to joke about this, but it’s so true because my identity like you described brilliantly is so true. So, wrapped up in alcohol My number one fear was how the hell if I stopped drinking, and we’re going to town, so weddings? I was like, that’s impossible. Yeah.



Oh, yeah, it’s like that can’t happen. My body won’t move. And these ridiculous fears now were incredibly powerful. And they stopped me from stalking in many ways, you know, the first sign of a client calling me boring. And I’d crumble because at that stage, it was like an attack on me, personally, and I didn’t understand that underneath authentically me was way more powerful than this, again, in some ways, a fake persona that I’ve created. Because when actually stopped drinking and found the courage, I realized I was a very different person underneath and wasn’t that guy. And I’d been confused about that for years. I remember genuinely being confused where I’d be that guy the night before. And let’s say we were on a stopover on a business trip, and I’d meet the clients the next day. And they’d be almost you know, he’s that crazy guy. And I wouldn’t be that crazy guy, I’d be quite introverted and quite sort of shy, almost. And all I wanted to do was read books and spend time with my family. And I remember my sort of scratching my head at times thinking, Where is that guy gone? But the ridiculous thing is I never put two and two together. I never thought oh, it’s that I’ll call this crane that is this cultural blind spot, as I described. So, there was a real, like, a sense of loss in many ways that is so hard to overcome.


I think there’s a lot of the work that I do now out front is to encourage people that underneath there’s a beautiful and African telling quickly that it won’t take long have you heard the story of the Golden Buddha? No.


Golden Buddha, such a beautiful story. I think many of your listeners might identify with this, the Golden Buddha. There was a golden Buddha. This is many 1000s of years ago in this lovely Himalayan village. And they would pray at the treat of the Golden Buddha. It was the focal point of the whole village where they come to connect, communicate, to pray to meditate, and then they got wind of a marauding tribe was ransacking all the local villages. So, the villagers got together and said, We haven’t got time to flee. What will we do? They’re going to take away a golden Buddha. And then one of the villages came up with a great idea of said, Let’s clad it in clay, and make it look like an old, concrete, decrepit statue and when the marauders come through, they might ransack the village, but they won’t take a call to Buddha. And of course, they covered it and it looked like this solid concrete statue, the marauders came through the village and they ransacked the villages, they thought they might, and they looked upon the Golden Buddha that was covered in claim they thought it was an old decrepit statue, and they let it be and then many years passed, and the village changed hands many times over. And people forgot about the Golden Buddha and got to know this decrepit old statue. And then one day, one of the villagers was sitting at the feet of the old, decrepit statue in his eyes, and all of a sudden, a little piece of the clay fell away, saw this shining light, and he looked inside and peeled away another bit and saw that it was gold. And he pulled away more of it. And he realized it was gold. And he ran back to the villages and said, the Buddha’s golden, the Buddha’s golden.


And I just think that’s such a beautiful metaphor for many of us adults is that we clad ourselves in this psychological sort of armor, we create these personas, based on alcohol, many of us and we become this, I think, decrepit gray version of us. But underneath, we are golden, we are so beautiful. It doesn’t matter whether that’s extrovert, it doesn’t matter what somebody that authentic self, I think, is the greatest discovery of this outcome, free adventure, becoming who you are stepping into your power as a person. So, that was the journey that I went on. And it was just for me, transformational, occur across every area, from our relationships to my health, to my career to my business. And I just wanted to share that with people. And that’s sort of what led me on this adventure in many ways.

Casey McGuire Davidson 

Hi there. If you’re listening to this episode, and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit.


The Sobriety Starter Kit is an online self study sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step by step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one on one coaching. And the sobriety starter kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it. And when it fits into your schedule. You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time.

This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step by step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking, from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better. You’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach, you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course 


Casey McGuire Davidson  13:47

I love that because also, we have so many fears about getting a backhoe, like you said, I mean, everything from like, people are worried like, will my husband even like me that you know, he’s my drinking, buddy? He doesn’t want me to stop drinking. Will I be fun? Will I ever be able to go out again to a concert or a bar or on vacation? Or will I sit there like, desperately wanting to dive across the table? Grab the bottle of wine? And the truth is, yes, you’re going to be an amazing person. Like you said, like the Golden Buddha. You’re going to be true to yourself, but also like, drinking is pretty fucking boring. Like I used to drink on my couch. on a Tuesday night watching shows I wouldn’t really remember sometimes fall asleep. You know, I’m putting air quotes I would pass out on the couch. My husband couldn’t wake me up. I would wake up in the morning irritated like physically ill avoiding people’s eyes. Like that’s pretty goddamn boring to do every night of your life.



Yeah, and that is such a brilliant description because again, I often have to talk to people around this because the boring tag. For me, that’s all a drink has got left. That’s all they’ve got left that they can’t argue they’ve got no other argument to make about science can’t talk about alcohol being good for you, they can’t say that it makes you confident. And in my example, because I lost the way, I looked so much healthier, so much better. So, no one can actually say to me, if this thing whatever you’re doing is not working, everyone was saying the opposite. It looks incredible. But people will still use that boring tech. That was like all they’ve got left in the locker. And then I reflected on that, exactly as you’ve done before.


Why is actually boring? What is boring for me? And I thought, well, boring for me is repeating yourself. Boring for me is getting overly emotional. Boring for me is being slightly anxious the following day that I can’t be asked to go and do things with the kids. Boring for me is not bothering to exercise because I can’t be bothered. Boring for me the rubbish out. Boring for me is staying still for 6 or 8 hours. In a pub, for example, talking about the same thing. Like, for me, that’s the most boring thing.


And then I flipped that to what’s exciting for me most excited for me is connecting with people in different ways, showing up as myself getting up the next day and getting out and hiking, biking, and moving my body and eating really well. And learning the skills of resilience again, and competency that excites me doing new things, taking new adventures. That’s exciting for me. And then when I compared the two, it was so obvious that the thing that people were boring, the author about was the most, in my opinion, the most boring thing you could possibly do. And that’s what takes a lot of courage. And I think that’s why these podcasts and what you do is so important for people to hear this message. Because if you don’t hear it, you’re running around thinking oh, maybe I’m like boring, you almost believe the nonsense where it’s, it’s for us to say no, think about it, reflect upon it, what’s boring for you, and it’ll give you all the answers you need. Yeah, and I’ll tell you a real great way to solve that conundrum. Got, and I say that this is the truth for make, go, and spend a night with a group that are drinking, and don’t drink and sit with them. Not through the first two or three because everyone’s on about the same wavelength but stay there for the whole night and genuinely sit there and think, oh, they haven’t found one then. And are they really excited? Are they a better version of themselves after those few drinks? 100% of the time? It’s a no, what we do?


Casey McGuire Davidson  17:11

Yeah, I mean, I had a client who went to sort of a barbecue dinner party the other night with a friend of her husband. And she said the host was just super drunk by, you know, two thirds of the way through and was just pressuring her to drink while also slurring his words and repeating himself. And she, I was like, Are you glad you weren’t that guy? And she’s like, yes, you know, looking at it through non drinking eyes. He was not inspiring. He was not cool. It was slight. She literally was, like, they were 48 years old and doing shots. Like, really, you know. Like, you get little. Like, you’re not quite as cool as you were in college. Do it that you know, and for me, I remember like, obviously, not every night, but after edit fancy resort with my husband and kids in Arizona, waking up in the middle of the night, going to the bathroom, turning on the sink, trying to let my family not hear me and on my knees throwing up red wine at the age of 38. I was like, Yeah, this is so sophisticated, you know, like this?



Is that awareness? Because I think that’s what we both have to own. We were there. And we didn’t see it but didn’t see it. And for whatever reason, both of us, you know, ended up on this pathway. And I think that’s why the messaging was really poor for people to hear it from people like us and go Oh, actually, yeah. Yeah. What am I doing? Is it really adding the value that? I think it does? And the truth is, the only time it appears to be fun is when you’re intoxicated, and under the influence of the drug yourself? Yes. So, it’s this massive lie. That’s like my favorite lie that I always pull people on is the it was a great night lie. Like if you took a poll of people that go and get drunk together and I was totally guilty of this 100% of the time I had a great night. It didn’t matter how shitty it was. It was a great night if someone WhatsApp the next dances great night everyone we’ve accepted goes all in peace. We’re all dying. We’ve all got in trouble at home. We’ve phoned in sick to work we’ve got anxiety we don’t want to do literally typing away on our little phones great night like we’re all like in this lie this total pretend or maybe you just don’t remember it. Yeah.



I want to say it was a shite night I don’t remember I got home it was absolute rubbish. We’ll talk complete bollocks for 2, 3, 4 hours. I’ve just upset my loved one. I’m not going to work. I’m going to be rubbish. Like, if anyone actually told the truth on those WhatsApp messages. It’d be a different story, but it’s this feeds this cultural blind spot that we have that like it fast. Now I can see it. I can’t unsee it. It’s fascinating to watch the levels of delusion.


Yeah, going on in people’s lives.


Casey McGuire Davidson  20:02

Yeah. Well, so talk to me about positive psychology like, what is it? How do you do it? Like what is the motivational play work for personal change?



Yeah, so positive psychology was a movement, a scientific movement started around the year 2000 by guy called Martin Seligman. And what was really interesting about that Martin Seligman was the head of the American Psychological Association, which is the biggest job in psychology over in the US. But psychologies original roots, if you go back hundreds of years was not just to heal the sick, it was to nurture talent, and inspire thriving individuals and communities. And what happened after successive World Wars, or the focus was on the healing the sick, the mentally sick, effectively taking the minus tends to minus five Moatize. To notes and selling them came along and said, we’ve forgotten our roots here, there was a whole branch of original psychology that was about nurturing talent. What about trying to get the notes to plus five and the plus to plus five to plus eights and to 10s. And that opened up this beautiful world of positive psychology, which is empirical science basis, the brightest minds in the land have flocked to it over the last 20 odd years to create scientifically proven interventions to help people thrive and communities thrive. And I absolutely love it.


So, I went to enter my degrees and master’s degrees in that area, because I wanted that science, I wanted that validation. And in learning a lot of those skills and techniques, it totally aligned with everything I believe, around alcohol-free, because I think in some ways, if you think about alcohol on a similar level, all of our attention has been in the addiction space to heal the sick effectively. And that’s wonderful work and it needs to be done it in the same way that all most of the attention was focused on hitting the psychologically sick, whilst completely ignoring this whopping great big group, which is the middle line group where there was nothing for the middle line it was over. We’re in here we’re doing a bit of triage, because you’ve reached a certain point. But if you’re not there, like why you’re not drinking that would make no sense to stop drinking. So that’s what’s been really beautiful for me to see over the last 10 years that space evolve as the alcohol free movement is, in some ways, followed suit with positive psychology and said actually, what about the whopping great big middle lane, which is the bulk of the adult population? Who were underperforming who was suffering a bit because of this alcohol thing? And they haven’t even picked up on it? What can we do for them? I think that’s what’s really exciting for me.


Casey McGuire Davidson  22:22

Yeah, I totally agree. And so, okay, I have to ask you, because my husband’s in his school, and there is some like backlash now with you do things and they’re like, Oh, my God, that’s toxic positivity. Like, what’s your response to that? Or have you heard that?



Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So, it’s that. I always call it bit happy, clappy. I don’t know why. But it’s not it’s skillful. I always use the word skillful. I really liked that word. It’s skillful positivity. And positive psychology, by the way, embraces the negative and the positive, all emotions, because they’ve all got benefits. It’s not positive thinking. Positive thinking is, it’s amazing, no matter what’s going on in your life, let’s sort of smile through it and break through it. It’s not Psychology. It’s not positive thinking.



No, it’s not that. Yeah, it’s very much again, more Science-based on really how we manage our minds, our emotions. Gratitude, for example, is a huge part of positive psychology. Mindfulness is a big part of positive psychology, exercise, nutrition, falls under that bracket. And on that, as an aside, you mentioned about the PhD. What I would love to do, somebody passionate about this, is actually have a break from alcohol as one of those positive psychology interventions, because positive psychology interventions are all about boosting wellbeing for individuals and communities. I’m like, Well, hold on a minute. That thing over there? I know it is because I’ve been involved in it for 10 years. We’ll get people incredible results of why don’t we prescribe a break from alcohol to our middle lane drinkers? Take a break. Oh, I’m feeling a bit anxious. Why don’t you try taking a break from alcohol? See if that helps. My relationships are suffering a bit. Why don’t try taking a break from alcohol. See if that helps. Diamond got the energy to exercise? Why don’t you try taking a break mocha?


Casey McGuire Davidson  24:06

Oh my god. And even if they don’t say they drunk too much when someone says, I have anxiety or I’m not sleeping well or XYZ I always like now seeing things clearly. Like you said, I’m like, take a 30 day break from alcohol. See how that index you before now when I was drinking because I was so attached to it, and I was a daily drinker, I would have been like, Fuck, no screw you, give me Ambien. Give me you know, depressant. But hopefully that’s shifting and the more you talk to people earlier in their drinking, they might try it or at least it’s in the back of their mind as opposed to, I mean, I would drink a bottle of wine and take a fucking Ambien to not, you know, wake up at 3:00 a.m.



Exactly. That’s the disconnect that is still there. It is changing but Still there that we might go to a doctor about asleep. And then we’ve mentioned alcohol. Yeah, quite happy to prescribe something. Off you go, while still coughing, vino Calypso every night and wondering why it doesn’t seem to be working because genuinely be aware, which is also really sad. Yeah. And



that’s the that’s, I think where this is so important is that awareness, isn’t it? Because once you see it, you can’t unsee it. And then, as you said, it’s in the back of your mind, oh, I’ll take the medication. But maybe I’ll try the alcohol thing. I didn’t even realize that alcohol if most people think alcohol helps them sleep. But actually, the science shows that what it does, it prevents us getting into that deep REM sleep, therefore, we don’t feel replenished and recovered before it was a bit tired. And there’s so much science about productivity and motivation if you’re struggling with your sleep. I mean, this is the amazing thing. It’s not just sleep, it’s relationships. It’s work performance. It’s motivation. It’s productivity, its nutrition, you know, as most people, what is the number one thing that upsets or completely destroys their nutritional strategy? It’s alcohol, it’s the hangovers. What’s the number one thing that prevents people getting consistent in their exercise? It’s alcohol was the number one thing that makes people are inconsistent in the workplace, alcohol, inconsistent their relationships. And it’s completely this is what I love it so much. It’s such a massive opportunity for people to optimize their health and their well-being by not doing that thing that they’ve been doing for all these years. Yeah.


Casey McGuire Davidson  26:28

Well, so how are you know, I know, in your books in let’s do this you talk about, it’s this motivational masterclass for new levels of sex success and tapping into the six streams of positivity. So, what are those, the six streams.



So the foundational, six skills six streams are, again, those real core things such as nutrition, sleep, movement, quiet time, which is like meditation connection, which is so incredibly important connection with others, and of course, alcohol free or removing alcohol. And if you look at most pillars, or wellbeing strategies, go and look all over the world go and look at all the influences the people that have specialists in all these areas, I guarantee almost none of them mentioned alcohol, they just don’t, they’ll have sleep, and they’ll have nutrition, they’ll have movement, they might have connection, they might have quiet time meditation, but they might have alcohol, it’s not in there.


So, my sort of foundational six skills are, let’s look at those score yourself 1 to 10. And then what’s beautiful about those six skills that I find there, the rising tide that lifts all boats, but the number one, and this is my focus is alcohol. If you remove that, tactically, it is the rising tide, that’s going to lift the wealth as your sleep will improve. So, if you’re taking a break, broke on, your sleeps improved, you’re much more likely to eat healthily. You’re much more likely, if you’re not drinking, and you’re sleeping better, to eat better. And if you’re eating better, you’re much more likely to have the energy to want to run and you’re much more likely to have the headspace and the clarity to potentially meditate or read. And then in that space, you’re much more energized and upbeat and positive, when we’re in a more positive frame of mind, we’re much more likely to want to connect to others. So that’s like the foundational grounding point for me. If we can optimize those things as best we can, no one’s perfect, by the way, although outcomes, one of those things, I think, if you can remove it fully, it gives you that 10 out of 10, great start. But I think that’s the grounding of a healthy, vibrant lifestyle. And from near, then you’re just layering on the good stuff that moves you from maybe a five out of 10 in terms of how you feel in life to six or seven, what beautiful place to start. And it’s really simple.


Casey McGuire Davidson  28:41

Yeah, and I always, you know, I work with clients, one on one who’ve been trying to moderate and failing and need that extra support. But, you know, obviously, in our first sort of debrief kickoff, we talk about triggers and what’s going on in their lives and what they want to shift and lots of them are like, my relationship with my husband, or my boss is a nightmare, or I need to quit my job or, you know, I hate the way I look, I want to lose 40 pounds. And my first advice to them is just remove the alcohol first so you can see things clearly. So, you can stop self-sabotaging, so you can raise your level of confidence and optimism and then you will have the clarity, the energy, the emotional stability, you mentioned that to shift your relationship with your spouse or look clearly at work, you’ll probably find that you perform better and it’s less stressful. You may then want to change things. But until you remove sort of the drinking and the hangovers and the you know the anxiety from it, you can’t actually make progress in other areas of your life.



Yeah, I’m smiling the whole way through this because of these. I’ve trained lots of coaches and a train Coaches now in the alcohol, three specialism because almost all of my success, as a coach has come from this secret thing, which is, basically, if you want to train with me invariably part of that, as long as it’s safe to do so is that you’re going to take a break from alcohol. But it’s been like this super coaching power that I’ve had for all of these years, because no one else was doing it, particularly because they were, again busily focused on all the other stuff. And I’m like, No, let’s just start there. If you want to train with me, we’re going to take a break now. But that’s like one of the foundational things we’re going to do that alone, I could almost do nothing else, I know, they’re going to be less anxious, they’re going to be happier, they’re going to be healthy, they’re going to be more consistent. And it’s like this miracle, they come back to me and go, This is amazing. I’m getting results I never got before. And I’m sort of smiling to myself, they think it’s some super-duper Coaching skills that I’ve got. And actually, it’s the foundational fundamental thing, which is to remove alcohol, it’s, this is why I don’t you know, for 10 years, I’ve been banging on about this, and I’ll be banging on about it for the next 10 or 20. Until this gets into place where I think most people have decided, actually, that I’m gonna leave it or tactically take it away. Because I love it. It’s such a gift for people, changes lives.


Casey McGuire Davidson  31:08

I work with high achieving women, I know a lot of women who listen to this who have like, the endless To Do List, they’re doing all the things, they’re keeping all the balls in the air. And obviously, if they are listening to this podcast, or they come to a sober coach, or are following you. Alcohol is a presenting problem, like they have some awareness that it is not helping their life be better. They, they’re realizing that they think they need to remove it, or they’re considering it. And yet they’re finding it hard. But once you know, like you were saying I feel like these women who are doing all the things, they’re trying to run a marathon with this, like ball and chain tied to their ankle. And you get rid of that. And suddenly they’re like, My life isn’t as hard. I’m happier. I have time and energy to do more than I thought, or for God’s sakes, I have time to rest. And I mean, like, I feel like less that like any new thing is going to be the straw that breaks me. But I know from my own experience, a lot of us know that removing alcohol is something that would probably improve are like most people don’t want to do it. They want to like moderate or drink like a normal person. But obviously difficult to do that, or we all would have done it right. We’re like, Yeah, remove alcohol nutrition workout. So what about that before you stopped drinking? And then that was like, first week, two weeks, three weeks, four weeks? Like how do you help people move through that?



Yeah, I think first and foremost, is a tactical break, or a break of some sort, as opposed to a forever thing. Yes, that instantly overwhelms people, it’s like, there’s too much for people to comprehend. Because the secret behind that is that it might just be a week, or it might be two weeks, or it might be three weeks or a month that you start with. And then I look at it, and I’ve read about this in the book is streaking with a difference. And what I mean by that is people come I’ve noticed, become really obsessed with their day count two sticks. And then if it goes wrong, it’s like, Oh, I’ve ruined it. I’ve failed again, I give up on you know, snakes and ladders, I’m all the way back to zero again. And I start again. And I take the total opposite approach.


You know, it’s that percentage over the month, let’s say I’m going to take a tactical break for a month, and maybe I’ve been drinking every other day or a couple of times a week or every day. What does that look like at the end of the month? What does that total look like? And it might be a vast difference from where you were the month before? That’s incredible, right? You’ve learned loads of new skills and tools and techniques, you’re getting an experience of what it’s like to not have alcohol in your system, you probably started to notice some of those wins. Because for me, the whole idea really is to build up this mindset that actually there’s nothing to give up. What am I giving up? I’m giving nothing up here. I’m just gaining better time better sleep, relationships are better. I’m less grumpy, I’m less snappy. I can rest and recover like you describe. I don’t have to be perfect all the time, you know, more mental clarity. So, it’s about gifting people that experience and I think you do this really well, as well.


It’s actually taking the pressure off a little bit about being perfect females in particular. And this is a massive generalization. I can only go for what I see are perfectionists and we can’t drop the bomb. We’ve got to be the perfect mother wife, whatever your setup is brilliant our business we’ve got to do it all. And then we’ve got to do this thing that is alcohol that’s like a ball and chain around the neck and Rambler and all that stuff. But I’ve got to perfect everything. I can’t possibly ever be seen to make a mistake at anything. Otherwise, the game’s up and everyone’s going to know I’m not perfect. So, it’s really actually trying to take away some of that pressure.


No one’s perfect. You’re beautifully perfectly imperfect. Slip ups are things going wrong. This is like, the first lesson, as part of the learning process. The truth of it. For most people, that is part of the learning process. Of course, the idea is, they don’t happen. If they do so well, I give it a load of credibility doesn’t deserve. It’s just an opportunity to learn. This is beautiful growth mindset. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Carol Dweck, have you heard it? Absolutely. Isn’t it beautiful. And I think that’s the journey that we end up going on with these tools of growth mindset. So just to explain that you’ve got fixed mindset, which is very rigid and very perfection orientated, almost your fixed at birth, your dharma, you’re smart. And then you’ve got the growth mindset all the way at the other end of the scale, which is life’s about learning, right, you learn more by getting it wrong you do by getting it right. And that’s such a beautiful truth. It removes that shackles of perfectionism. Go for it, make mistakes, enjoy them, learn from them. And I think that’s part of the process of changing any behavior. And we can look at the Science of Tasker, who’s got one of the most famous models of change, which of course, the stages of change model. At first blush, it looks like this perfect circle, which goes from contemplation to action and maintenance. And you think, Oh, we just go perfectly around that loop once you’ve made a rational choice to change. But if you look behind that the research and the science, you’ll see that on average, it takes people about five to six times around that loop by there’s a slip up in there, there’s an error in there, and they reload, and they get back round again. So, it’s a corkscrew of change. It’s not this fixed, perfect circle. And I think once you start to lighten that load, it becomes much easier this whole thing is it’s not I’m trying to go for it. And if there’s slip ups in there, learn from them, dust myself off, and I’ll come back, stronger, and then over time, you get into that place where maybe your streak goes from a week to 2 weeks to 3 weeks to 4.


And that’s exactly what happened to me. It got to 4 weeks, and I went, Oh, I think I’ve got this, I’m feeling the real advantage of this, I feel better than I’ve ever felt. I don’t care that my boss at the time was saying if you stay non-drinking, your career’s finished. Seriously, your boss, he barely had his own issues without a day to post one every single lunch. That was just warm ups. But he was the guy who was my hero, turned around to me about a month in and said, if you continue on this path, you’ll finish. Who’s going to want to go out for broke or that doesn’t drink. But this is back to that point, because I’d had the lived experience at that stage of feeling better. That was too powerful. I was like, Man, I know what you’re saying. But I think I’m onto something here. I need this. For me. I’m going to continue. So, I got there in the end for just releasing myself from those shackles of perfection. And then it took me a few goes like I’ve described over those weeks, and then two weeks, and then three weeks learning each time getting stronger each time or confident each time. And then it happened. And that was nine and a few months.


Casey McGuire Davidson  37:56

So, I’m curious, did you inspire him to make any changes? Or was he like, so deep? He was like, oh my god, forget this.



Yeah, that was the way he was built a job. I’d love to think. Because we parted ways. I left that firm to set up a rival firm in the end. And that was one of the major reasons that I did. So then in the broking world, you’re sort of dead to them if you go to rob never spoke to me since but, you know, I’d love to set the tone. But I’d like to believe that he’s still around, actually maybe does drink a little bit less because of and I also know that someone else in his world I have inspired someone directly in his world. I have inspired to not drink who’s with him a lot. So yeah, it’s even though maybe not him. I think he’s still at a positive influence.


Casey McGuire Davidson  38:39

So, I clearly when I stopped drinking, I had been worried about my drinking for a while. I never talked to anyone about it, but I, you know, woke up with that Doom, and I was like, Oh, shit, you know, I got to get handle on this. Because, you know, this is not cool. This is a problem, but I don’t want to stop drinking. So, when I stopped drinking, I heard a sober coach. I didn’t tell anyone, including my husband, that I had done that and like you I just started like, 100 Day Challenge. Okay, how the hell do I get through day two and day three or whatever. But I got to 100 days. And you know, I looked so much better. I was so much happier. I was just and so my boss who was kind of a total bitch and really harsh. Like, came to me and was like, Oh, by the way, I’m doing a 28 break to from alcohol because you’ve totally inspired me and I’m on day 14. And it just cracked me up because I was like, if you knew how much went into this for me, but she was just looking externally and was like, Whoa, I want to do what she’s doing.



We look good. I love some of that. And that’s I think the beautiful thing about what we do is that lots of people you mentioned earlier will reach out to me and say, I’ve got a friend I’ve got a family member. I’ve got a colleague, I’m worried about them. What should I do? To my response is always the same. It’s like, are you alcohol free yourself, if it’s safe for you to do so, take a break, show them live, love it, show up and be part of their life, not drinking, let your skin glow, let your body look fitter, be healthier, be more confident, learn all those skills, that’s the for me, that’s the best thing you could ever do, and show them that your life doesn’t end. And that you can still socialize and do all the things and be the same person without it.



Yeah, Ghandi said it.


Be the change you want to see in the world. – Ghandi

And I think it’s so true. Don’t tell them show them, I think is a really powerful thing to do. And then equally, a lot of people are like, well, I can’t do that, or don’t want to do that. And I can’t. But I think personally, that’s the best thing you could do for your loved one colleague, friend is show up and show them the way because that’s what I see continually. lives get changed, as that ripples out. And actually, I talked about this in the book, which is interesting. Nicholas Christakis did some incredible research around a Framingham Heart Study, which was not designed about behavioral change, it was a Heart Study, but it covered hundreds of 1000s of people in the US and all of their networks. And he got a hold of this and was able to trace because it’s really detailed. How habits and emotions spread through networks. Unbelievable. If I remember the steps correctly, it was talking about obesity. So, if someone in your immediate network weighed on, you were about 45%, more likely to put on weight yourself, which is pretty incredible. But it went a step further, if someone saw a friend, say a family member’s friend or friends friend was to put on weight, you’re 25% more likely to put on weight yourself. But if your friends three degrees of separation, you will still 10% more likely to put weight on isn’t that staggering, it’s not immediate. So, this is what they found because of their influence of friends and your social setting, and how we’re influenced by the people that we spend most time with. Jim Rohn, a brilliant motivational guru has that lovely quote.


You become the average of the five people you spend less time with. – Jim Rohn


I think there’s so much truth in that. And that’s so that was looking at it maybe in a negative way. But I look at it in the other way, right, we’ve got like that false field that we can put out into the world and get we can put the good vibes out into the world or the good behaviors out into the world because it works both ways, no doubt with alcohol we’ve, and our emotions as well, by the way, positivity versus negativity, we can put that out into the world and have that beautiful impact. Of course, not on everyone, but on someone in our network, who would then inspire somebody in their network. And then when we go, and that’s where we create this massive ripple effect, which is really cool.


Casey McGuire Davidson  42:39

Well, the other thing, and I love that you talk about how it changed so much and behavioral change, because that’s my approach to there’s so many different approaches, which is amazing to change your relationship with alcohol. But the one I’m attracted to is habit and behavioral change. And you probably know the book atomic habits by James clear, yeah, and one of the things I love about that is you were saying in a positive way, that, you know, we as human beings want to connect with others. And when you’re deciding to change your relationship with alcohol, you probably have a circle of people in your life who are also drinkers, and you don’t necessarily need to break up with them or totally distance yourself from them. likely they’re your spouse, your mother, your sister, your best friend. But you do need to add and supplement your world where the behavior you want to have in your life is celebrated. So, you know, adding people in your life who are also doing the alcohol free thing who cheer you on when you hit day seven, because it might have been longer than you’ve gone in five years without drinking, or realize that on Day 30. You deserve a damn parade and cheer you on when you go to a work happy hour and don’t drink or on a business trip. You need that in your life. So, you’re getting that inspiration and tips and all that good stuff.



So powerful that you said that. Because here’s the great truth. This is a solo mission for almost all of us. You know, I look around in my network everyone thinks is the true fit all my mates. So my family, my wife will drink. You know, so when you’re making that decision is so hard. That’s what makes it so difficult, like I said, because you’re looking around almost scratching your head again going. All of my cultural clues are saying that this thing must be like my mum drinks. She’s an angel. To me, she drinks alcohol. Oh, my husband, all my friends for before I stopped drinking as well. But I also now have this amazing network of really good friends who are on the alcohol free path. I have both, you know, yeah.



And that’s exactly, that’s my story. So that’s mature. Over the years, when I go back 10 years ago, it was 100%. And now I have this beautiful collection of people that don’t drink. And even in my own network, some of those people that were drinking, then don’t drink now. So, we’ve had that beautiful, positive effect. But what I also think is really important, and more so than probably any other genre is online. You know, like, that’s why I ended up creating the DRI app, for example, it’s really a place to connect to community. Because most people when they start this adventure, are just like me, and just like you, everyone they know, still drinks. So, it’s really bloody. Because no one, no one gets it. No one really understands it, because that’s their story. And your story is individual to you. And I think there’s one, you know, hopefully an insight for everyone that I love from the world of NLP, funnily enough, they have a thing called the Mac is not the territory and love the sign. And what that means is, everyone has a different map of the world. But we all think through that map, we see the territory, but the territory being reality, no one sees true reality, because everything is filled through our brains, our map of the world, which is our past history, our beliefs, this emotional filters, and then bases that we interpret what we think reality is, and I think that’s why it’s really important to get that across is because sometimes friends and family members and colleagues, they don’t get it, it’s not because they’re being mean, they’re just looking at alcohol through their map of the world, and through their map of the world if they might be perfectly happy with their relationship with alcohol. So, they can’t understand why you wouldn’t want to drink, because they’re assuming you’ve got their map. And this is the common mistake that I see everyone thinks everyone else has got the same map, we’ve all got different maps, I think it allows a bit of empathy as well, for loved ones that don’t get it, but equally, can’t find your tribe on line list. That’s why these podcasts are like none of this existed.


Casey McGuire Davidson  46:47

When I first tried to take a break 10 years, I got like four months, then I got pregnant, so I didn’t drink for a year. And then I ended up stopping a little over seven years ago. And both 1010 years ago, the world was really kind of bleak. Nobody was talking about leaving alcohol behind in a positive open way. Seven years ago, it was also really limited in terms of what was available. And now I feel like ever, you know, I just in my inbox. Yesterday, I got six articles, like in major pop publications, like entrepreneur women’s health, about, you know, the shift in the sober curious world, the bursting, huge, huge explosion of non-alcoholic drinks, how millennials and Gen Z’s are really not drinking the way their parents and grandparents are. And it’s shifting, you know, finances, and what big companies are having to put out in the market. So yeah, 10 years ago, good on you. Right. Like it was a good world.



It is. And that’s what’s so beautiful now and you’ve like myself, I’ve seen the evolution of this from no one got it at the start, no one understood that I just wanted to stop drinking. So, I wanted to perform better. And every year of my life, they were like, No, hold on, you must. You’ve got all of those problems. So how much did you really drink? Yeah, and they want to box you off? And I’m like, No, you’re not going to put me in any boxes. I’m just doing this because I’m like where you were. And that was people couldn’t get that now they get that which is great. And the momentum around the alcohol free drinks industry that momentum around so many of the sober Well, you know, the communities, the apps, the podcast, but even still, because we are surrounded by it, there is a temptation to think, oh, everyone’s got this. And the truth is, it’s tiny. Incy Wincey fraction of people that have got it. But what is exciting, I think it’s that moment of real acceleration. If you can imagine the flywheel. Jim Collins talks about this, and he’s brilliant business book, Good To Great. And we’re pushing up this, we’ve been pushing this thing up with all their energy and all our mind for the last 10 years. And I think we’re almost at the top where in a minute is just going to tip and when it tips. It’s going to have its own momentum. And then, you know, in 5, 10 years’ time, I think alcohol will be very reflective of some of that looks like smoking.


Casey McGuire Davidson  49:05

I really believe that. Where some people will, of course, choose death. No, but it won’t be like, Oh, you’re not smoking, what the hell do you have a problem with smoking? Everybody will be like good for you, man. Like what’s Why would you? Well, so here’s the other thing I want to say about online and community which is why I love stuff like the dry app and people on Instagram and TikTok and everybody talking about it and Facebook is in your right it is a very small percent of the population once the cool thing is once you find it, it’s like pulling this thread you will find more and more. But what I will say is so many more people that you actually know are probably struggling with alcohol are worried about their drinking and trying to moderate and not talking about it because I know when I was drinking.


The last thing I wanted to do was tell anyone. My current social circle, who knew me that I was worried about my drinking because I didn’t want to draw any more attention to it, then it was I was probably the least likely person to talk about it. And yet, you go online, and you see that so many people just like you are struggling with it. And once I sort of came out of the proverbial closet, and like said on Facebook, hey, I’m a year alcohol-free, and I feel great. You know, I probably have six people I used to work with, who have joined my Sobriety Starter Kit, and have stopped drinking and are talking to me about it. And they are awesome, but they are the exact people that I used to leave work and drink a bottle of wine with at the local, you know, bar and bitch about our bosses. You know, it’d be like, exactly what you said. That was great. That was a great night.



Yeah, we get caught in that loop. And that’s why the sober world, the alcohol free world, and the alcohol free drinks, are getting people thinking differently out there. I think they’re feeling now for the first time, probably ever, oh, there’s options that just didn’t exist before. There’s options to not drink, and the stigma is starting to fade. It’s still there. And again, but I think we’re right on that cusp of that flywheel was mentioned turning, where it will happen really quickly. Now, I think in the next two or three years, probably five years, so much information will get out there, or the health information will get out there. There’ll be many more groups and communities. I really think it’s going to happen a lot quicker than people think it’d be one of these things that hasn’t done anything for 100 years. And now I reckon, in the next five, it’s going to completely changed forever. I genuinely believe that it will.


Casey McGuire Davidson  51:42

Not easy, but I have a client who I think is that like 40 days alcohol free going on her first business trip, super worried about it. We like did the whole strategy, one of the things she was most worried about is going out to dinner with two colleagues, who they don’t see each other. They live in different cities. And she texted me that she went to the dinner, and was like, Oh, I’m taking a break from alcohol for a while. Healthcare, whatever. One of the other women were like, Yeah, I actually stopped drinking five years ago. And she was like what you did, the other woman did drink ordered a glass of wine but was recommending non-alcoholic beer. To them both was like, oh my god, I love athletic Brewing Company. Have you tried it? Yeah. And she texted me, like, even the drinker was recommending nonalcoholic options.



That’s the game changer, isn’t it? That’s the game changer. Right there. And the amount of people exactly that they’re big fear. I’ve got the big client event, I’ve got the big launch, I’ve got them. And then they turn up and finally pluck up the courage and the other person opposite them goes, what a relief, because actually, I’m not drinking either. And that, you know, the other person is prepared. And I noticed this again, in the world of broken all the time, what would happen if I was the leader of the event and say, there’s six of us out to lunch, if I ordered an alcoholic drink at the start, this is going back a few years, everyone would have natural voice without exception. But then when I stopped drinking, and still was in that world, I’d order sparkling water, there wasn’t really nonalcoholic drinks, but just let’s just say I’d have sparkling water, I’d say 50% of the table would order sparkling water. So, what I realized in that moment was that for all of those years, half the title never wanted to drink anyway. Yeah, but they didn’t quite have the courage or the confidence to say it. So, all those people,


Casey McGuire Davidson  53:25

like you, Boss, I actually was interviewed by publication a link to it. But what I love is they were doing a story about for an HR publication about how employers can make people who don’t drink supported in holiday parties. And one of the things they talked about was obviously, serving a non-alcoholic beverage option that is equal to the alcoholic beverage options. Not having drinking events at lunch, but also not having the boss be the one inviting people to drinking events or encouraging drinking events. I mean, I used to go to work. And after a big when there were bottles of champagne on everyone’s desk, who was on the team. And you know, with so many people not drinking, and in this article, they were like, This is the number of employees that likely struggle with alcohol. And this is the number of hours and dollars you are losing in productivity to alcohol. So, you’re trying to celebrate people by giving them alcohol and you are actually sort of shooting yourself in the foot as an employer.



I think it’s the worst thing you could possibly do. If you actually look at it. And I know the HR teams, I think have been unaware of this and they’re becoming more aware of it. I worked with a billion dollar company I went in to spend some time with and they were all over it, you know, all over. They had meditation pots, it was like real state of the art and their Mental Health First Aiders, and I was like, How do you like to get together, and they went oh, we’re brilliant. And we’ve got a bar in the office. So, we have thirsty Tuesdays and Thirsty Thursdays it’s offering. Everyone comes down. Yeah, they have a drink. And I’m like looking at them thinking.


So, I bet your mental health first aid is really busy on a Wednesday and a Friday, picking up the pieces from this. And I said, if you understand Psychology, if the let’s just say the CEO, is there, yeah. And she’s drinking, right? Let’s just say she turns up and she has that drink. What message does that send to the directors? Well, I want to fit in, I don’t want to be left out. I don’t want to be the one that’s not in favor with the big boss, I’m going to have a drink. So, then, all of them are drinking, what message does that send to the managers? Well, I want to be left X, what the directors drinking, I’m going to have a drink. What message does that send to all the line workers? Well, I don’t want to be left out, I’m going to have a drink. You think about that social pressure just filters down. You’ve got a whole group of staff drinking. And I’d say 50% of them don’t want to drink or have issues with alcohol, they’re all drinking, their performance is going to get absolutely slammed, they feel socially pressured. Doing that makes from a business point of view. And I’ve run lots of businesses now, that has got to be the worst thing possibly do for your business is absolutely go and ruin everyone’s productivity, their mental health, their emotional health, and put them in a socially pressured environment where they showed up, like a truck, which is alcohol.


Casey McGuire Davidson  56:15

I mean, like eight years ago, I literally and this shows like what you were talking about with, like, my wife’s going to leave me. I literally thought that if I stopped drinking, I would never get promoted, I would be ostracized at work, like my career would suffer. Because if I stopped drinking, then people would think I had a problem with alcohol. And then it would be like, Whoa, she’s got a problem with alcohol. What was hysterical was, I was showing up hungover, I would go on business trips, drink way too much trip and fall in front of my boss on, you know, skin, my knee on the way home from dinner, I, you know, would go to events and like, share inappropriate stuff, or gossip or be toxic about work stuff. And yet, I thought if I stopped drinking, like that was the self-sabotage in the office.



Yeah, it’s crazy. And back to my story, the big boss, my hero, saying you’re finished, I ended up growing a business seven times bigger when I left that business to set up a new one in half the time. And the reason that happened, because I was always on the bloody ball. I wasn’t losing two or three or more days a week to complete underperformance from even a few drinks that have destroyed the sleep or made me a bit anxious and didn’t want to pick up the phones and didn’t want to do the things that I had to do. And I was a bit hiding away Sunday, I removed that every single day, it was an eight out of 10, and nine out of 10. So, performance in the office, accelerated my clients, I built better relationships with them because I was so much better at my job. They need me to take them out and do all the entertaining and wining and dining because that’s what I had in the locker. They actually now wanting to work with me, because I’m bloody good at what I did. And I was really consistent in what I did. And that was a game changer. And I think that’s the thing that people are fearful of, but actually by unlocking your consistency, your health, your authentic self, you’re so much more powerful in every domain. And I think especially in industries that are client led that people think, oh, it’s all about alcohol. I think that’s where your superpower makes you stand out the most is the great irony of it. I think that’s the they’re the best industries to not drinking when everyone else is drinking bill, a shoe fell who is the CEO, I don’t know if I’d be wrong.


Casey McGuire Davidson  58:27

I interviewed and He’s amazing. He’s lovely. CEO of athletic Brewing Company, which is huge and exploding. I found it at a professional baseball game. They just are starting to serve it on JetBlue domestic flights as the first non-alcoholic beer option. I am so hoping other airlines are going to take up on that. But yes, so tell me about Syl.



So, we had this lovely conversation. He was in London, and I sat down with him. And I’ve known him right from the start of it all. In many ways. I’m sure you have as well, because it’s because he’s actually quite new to it like athletic Bruins and he ran for years. I mean, I think it’s like $2 million. Business, right? I mean, it’s unbelievable. So, we were sort of joking about it. But there was truth in it was like, Well, look, you know, I’m really all into this industry and doesn’t drink himself clearly. But he said most of my competitors or other people in the space that are traditional alcohol brands, they will boozy because it’s part of what they do, right? It’s their culture, because yeah, exactly right. So, the advantage that’s given him in that space is incredible, right? Because he’s always on the ball. He’s always a 10 out of 10. He’s up every day. He’s got more energy. He’s got more time and the proof is in the pudding. He’s grown a business from scratch in four years that I’m pretty sure I saw that quote somewhere that it’s like, close to a billion dollar bid in four years.


Absolutely. But I mean, it’s amazing and it shows that the growth of the alcohol free movement, but again, back to that superpower in her career on industry have always been on the ball is unbelievable.


Casey McGuire Davidson  59:56

Yeah, well, so tell us about that. What you do about the Dry App. I know you started founding one year, no beer, your books like your coaching, all the things, all the things.


Yeah, so predominately what I do now I haven’t stepped down from one you know being in 2019 is to dry out, it’s got the extra wire that’s a lifestyle alcohol free brand that has a community that lives on an app that we have lots of why. Why Dry, and I love it in there. There’s over 10,000 people in there now connecting together, the vibe is so upbeat and positive. It’s everything that if you’ve listened to me, I think and got that impression. Hopefully, that’s the vibe that’s in there. And I love it’s a beautiful space for people all over the globe loads and loads. Brett’s got tons of people from America in there, which is lovely to see. It’s beautiful, like it’s a global app. But what I predominantly do alongside that is train Coaches. Like, Coaches, Executive Coaches, Business Coaches, with the specialist. And then, on top of that, I have Alcohol-Free Coaching, and also train existing coaches in the specialism, Alcohol-Free coaching.


I think many people that come from this experience like me, want to give back in some shape or form. And that was me 12 years ago, when I took that coach course that I described, it changed my life. So now, I feel 12 years old and having had some relative success in the coaching world, I want to share that experience with as many people as possible. I know I can only reach a certain amount of people. But now I can help other people reach more people that are going to create podcasts and apps. And actually, funnily enough, Dry was started by a guy called Matt pink, who did that Coaching course. And he said, I’ve got this great idea for an app. And I was like, that sounds bloody brilliant. I’ll get involved in it. So, you can sort of see this. Vicariously, we’re reaching lots of people and helping lots of people again, from you know, Life Coaching to Business Coaching, but also Alcohol-Free coaching, and I love it. That’s what I do predominantly.


So, my best place to find me is, the website on there. I’ve got various free workshops. One of them is, how to become a coach and love what you do, there’s an outcome free workshop on there. So free, go and check it out. And I’m live pretty much every day on Instagram @andyramageofficial and on Facebook @Andy Ramage. And he runs official and in the dryer app, as well. I love it. That’s what I’ve been doing for seven or eight years. So come and check it out and get involved.


Casey McGuire Davidson  1:02:03

That’s awesome. Cool. Thank you so much for coming on. I’d love this conversation.



Yeah, I mean, we could have just done this all night. We’d love to do a round two at some point.


Casey McGuire Davidson  1:02:12

Yeah, so that would be awesome. Very cool.



Thank you for listening to this episode of The Hello Someday Podcast. If you’re interested in learning more about me or the work I do or accessing free resources and guides to help you build a life you love without alcohol, please visit And I would be so grateful if you would take a few minutes to rate and review this podcast so that more women can find it and join the conversation about drinking less and living more. 


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