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How To Transform Your Home To Reduce Triggers To Drink and Support Your Sobriety with Caroline Thor

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

drinking, sobriety, books, alcohol, clothes, decluttering, closet, live, papers, kids, people, day, organizing, box, sparks, visualizing, ideal lifestyle, husband, podcast, method, work, nonalcoholic, non-alcoholic, alcohol-free, transforming, home, support, declutter, organize, KonMari® method, peace calm, space, sparks joy, self-soothing, self-care, environment, sentimental items, attachment, feel, sober treats, milestones, sobriety journey, booksg

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Caroline Thor

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a buzz, how to sit with your emotions when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Hi there. Today, we are talking about

transforming your home to support sobriety.

And my guest today is Caroline Thor. She’s originally from the UK and has been living in Germany for 19 years with her husband, three kids, and a small Menagerie. She trained as a KonMari® consultant in 2021. Following a career as a teacher, Caroline now works with clients in person in Germany and internationally online. And she has a successful podcast, living clutter free forever, based on the KonMari® method. She’s also the founder of clutter free ever after an online group coaching program, and the clutter free collective, an online membership.

She’s passionate about helping busy people create a home that supports their ideal lifestyle, so they can feel peace and calm. And this is something that is really important as you move to alcohol-free living as you’re in early sobriety or later in sobriety, because we talk about building your sober bubble. And you can do that in your home.

So Caroline, welcome. Caroline Thor  02:36 Hi, thanks very much for having me. This is fun.   Casey McGuire Davidson  02:40 Yeah, I’m excited to have you here. So, tell us a little bit about the KonMari® method for people who don’t know what that is? Yeah,   Caroline Thor  02:49 Yeah, sure. So, the KonMari® method is a method that was developed by Marie Kondo. She’s a professional organizer from Japan. And the method is really different to other ways of decluttering and organizing your space because you actually start by visualizing your ideal lifestyle. That’s the crux of it.

How can your home support the life you want to live? rather than it just being a storage container?

What do you need in it in order to live the best way you can? So that’s the first thing. The second thing is you then declutter and organize by category rather than by room. So, we’ve all done this thing where we spent ages decluttering the living room and organizing it and it looks great. And two days later, it’s like we didn’t do anything. So, categories, and the categories are clothes, books, papers, kimono, not kimono, which is miscellaneous items like your kitchen stuff, your bathroom, your garage, craft stuff. And then finally, absolutely last, sentimental items. Things that you’ve really had difficulty deciding on because you have an emotional attachment to them. And the third part of it is really, what sparks joy for you. What do you love what brings joy into your home and into your life? And when you put those three things together, you create a really powerful method to support your life and how you want to live.   Casey McGuire Davidson  04:13

So, can you give us some example of like, visualizing your ideal home or life or goals, because I’m having trouble picturing what some of those visions might be?

  Caroline Thor  04:24

Yeah. So, when you think about visualizing your ideal lifestyle, I always start from the point of how do you want to feel in your home? So, a lot of us feel very overwhelmed a lot of the time in our home I certainly did.

10 years ago, when my kids were really little. I used to come in the house, and I be overwhelmed by the shoes that have been left everywhere and I’d quite try and cook a meal and I wouldn’t be able to find stuff in the kitchen or I’d have to clean up first that sort of thing. I was naturally very disorganized.

So, how do you want to feel when you walk in the front door? How do you want to feel when you get up in the morning and you open your closet? What do you what do you want from your home? And for most of us, it’s peace and calm, and a space that supports the life we want to live.

So, if we’re thinking about someone who perhaps would love to be doing yoga, let’s say, but they never get around to doing it, because before they do, they have to clear a space on the floor, they have to actually go and find the yoga mat and all that sort of you know, and then you just say, This is too complicated, I’m not even going to bother, so you never get around to doing the yoga. So, having a space that supports your ideal lifestyle, when you visualize that you’d be like, right, what’s really important for me is that I can get up every morning and do some yoga. So, I will have a space that’s always clear, and maybe the mats lying there, or perhaps it’s rolled up and stored in a nice basket next to that space. So, it’s easy. We want life to be easy, it doesn’t need to be complicated and more difficult than it has to be. And then, of course, when we’re thinking about your listeners, we’re thinking about

how is our home going to support our drive towards sobriety? So, we visualize a life where we’re not going to be drinking alcohol. How is our home going to support us in that? What is the home needs to be like? What does the kitchen need to be set up, like, and having perhaps hobbies to distract us and that sort of stuff?

So, does that make a bit of sense that sort of does that explain it a bit for you?   Casey McGuire Davidson  06:33 Yeah, it does. And we talked about, before we jumped on, that I’m a big fan of Atomic Habits by James Clear. And one of the things he talks about is the importance of your physical and then your social environment. So, I feel like that is a similar idea. So, in terms of why that’s important in atomic habits, he talks about cue based behavior. So, the cues around you trigger the habits. And so, in the most obvious example, when you walk into your kitchen, if you’ve got bottles of wine in the wine rack, or a bottle on the counter, that cue is going to trigger a crate. That cue is going to trigger a craving to drink, as opposed to if that visual cue is not there at all. And instead, your kitchen and your fridge is filled with all these incredible nonalcoholic options to drink, then you’re going to see oh, there’s so many options available. None of which are cueuing me to drink, wine or beer or, you know, cocktails.   Caroline Thor  07:49 Exactly. And I also think the other thing that’s really important is there can be times of the day that trigger us, like when we sit down on the sofa of any evening, and we have traditionally reached for the glass of wine or the G&T or whatever it happens to be, and thinking, Okay, what else can I have in that environment that is going to stop me wanting to go and get that drink is there perhaps some sort of something I can do with my hands like knitting or crocheting or doing a puzzle or, you know, having a screen to look at something to keep your hands busy to distract you from the fact that you would have traditionally have gone and got a drink. And I’ve had to deal with this because you were actually a guest on my podcast in January for Dry January. And I made a pledge in that episode that I was going to do Dry January. And I’ve stuck to it. I had one glass of wine since that started. And that was last week. And it was a tiny, tiny amount with some fizzy water with it. And that’s all I’ve had since January. And we’re now recording this in May. But I have had to adapt my environment because we had got into a real habit of sitting on the sofa of an evening and having a G&T. That was our go-to. And so, I’ve had to reframe my environment to support that. And my husband’s had to help me with that as well even though he wasn’t doing dry January to make sure he didn’t offer me, or he would offer me an alcohol-free G&T. Or we would choose to do something else rather than have a drink, like have some chocolate or get some crisps out or something that wasn’t having the alcohol.

And this is why visualizing your ideal lifestyle is so important because then you can create an environment that supports that for you.

  Casey McGuire Davidson  09:42 Yeah, absolutely. So, I do have to ask you, I remember you making that pledge, which was so awesome. And what did you feel at the end of the month and what made you want to keep going?   Caroline Thor  09:55 Well, it was interesting because I was at suspecting I’m going to sleep better. I’m going to have more energy and all the rest of it. And then, I realized I sleep really well anyway. So, I didn’t actually notice any difference with that at all. But I definitely had more energy, it was nice to wake up in the morning, and be ready to go. And I’d never had more than a couple of drinks. So, it was never that I was sort of completely foggy the next morning or anything like that. But I just felt like I had more energy. And I got to the end of January, and I said to my husband, I’ve not missed it at all, I just hadn’t even really thought, Oh, I’d love to have a glass of wine this evening, or whatever it happens to be, I think, because we’ve done such a good job of creating the home environment supportive for me, so that was great. And then for Lent, every year, my husband always gives up alcohol for the whole of Lent. And I worked out from the end of dry January to the start of Lent, was going to be something like 13 days. And then I was going to join my husband for Lent, which I always do every year anyway. And I thought, what’s the point of having a drink just because I can for those 13 days, so I’ll keep going. So, I said to my husband, right, I’m not going to break this at the end of January, I’ll keep going. And I sort of haven’t looked back just because I’ve now got into the routine of, I don’t need it. I don’t feel I’m missing it. I have things within my environment now that have replaced that for me. I never thought I’d be spending the same amount of money on a bottle of alcohol-free gin, as I would for a bottle of gin. But I have been because I’ve realized what I like, is just having something that’s nice to drink of an evening. It doesn’t need to be alcohol. There’s something nice about sitting down on a Friday evening with my husband and having a drink together from a social aspect. And it doesn’t have to be alcohol. So, I haven’t missed it at all. And that’s why I’ve kept going really? Casey McGuire Davidson  12:01 Yeah, and it’s so much better for your body. I mean, there’s no question in terms of cancer risk and energy and your body processing everything you eat. That’s great. And Jamie Lee grace, who is from the alcohol free life podcast. Oh, he says keep the ritual change the ingredients. And that sounds like exactly what you’ve done.   Caroline Thor  12:27 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And my husband was the first one to come home with a bottle of alcohol free gin. And I was like, Are you crazy? I mean, that’s just ridiculous. But it actually took it doesn’t taste exactly like gin. But then I don’t need to bring it to taste exactly like G and I just need it to taste good. And for me to enjoy drinking it. And that’s fine.   Casey McGuire Davidson  12:50 Yeah, for me, I’ve, you know, non-alcoholic beer. Athletic brewing is my favorite. And same thing. I was a red wine girl. And it actually helped me to switch to non-alcoholic beer. But you know, you don’t have to do that. But it is nice. I mean, you have that memory of the taste, and it cues, certain situations sitting outside by a firepit or going to a bar. I don’t recommend it in early sobriety at all. But once you’ve gotten away from early sobriety, it is perfectly normal to go to a restaurant or a bar and just choose a non-alcoholic option.   Caroline Thor  13:32 Yeah, yeah. And of course, living in Germany, though, they’re well known for their beers. And we have a beer called Half of Wrightson. And they do an amazing alcohol free version. And it’s actually full of minerals and really good stuff. So, I’m more than happy to drink that have an evening as well. That’s, that’s fine.   Casey McGuire Davidson  13:51 Yeah, that’s great. You know, when you were talking about the environment, and having the environment set up to support the lifestyle you want, I was thinking back to when I stopped drinking, and this is really it’s interesting to me. What I did is our I had redecorated updated painted our entire house except my bedroom, my, the master bedroom with my husband. And I don’t know why I hadn’t done it, but it was painted a color I didn’t like I you know, honestly, I used to go up there and like pass out right, like I drank a bottle of wine and just went up there to sleep. And so, once I stopped drinking, I was like, Okay, I’m going to make my bedroom. This really nice place that I really enjoy. So, I painted the walls all white. I got these really pretty white curtains. We have amazing windows. I got a new bed even, you know, our old one was so old. I got a king bed, I got new bedding I got, you know, these turquoise lamps that made me really happy and an essential oils diffuser. So, after I got my daughter to bed, I was really happy to go up to my bedroom with a book and chill out and put on the diffuser and have this really nice evening routine that felt like self-care and felt like a retreat. And that was amazing. So, I feel like when you’re talking about that, that’s sort of an example.   Caroline Thor  15:36 Yeah, absolutely. You’ve created a space that sparks joy for you. That completes the complete score of the KonMari® method. And I think, wherever you are in your home, you should have that feeling. It should make you feel happy in every space that you’re in. If you go into your laundry room, then you want it you want to be able to want to go in there, you don’t want to have it I’ve got to do the laundry today create a space that makes you happy, or as you said in your bedroom, or do you have a corner in the living room where you’ve got a nice chair and a photo and a nice lamp and maybe a candle. And you can sit there and just sort of meditate or relax and read your book, you need to create spots, I always call them your power spots, places and you it sounds very much like your bedroom was that for you places in your home that give you the positive energy that you need to sort of fill the tank and make it possible to live the life that you want to. But also, that will help you relax, because I think what a lot of us forget, is that when our home is cluttered and disorganized, organized, it creates anxiety and stress in us even if we don’t realize it. And I, as a mom with three young kids, had started the KonMari® method, because I was really stressed, and I just had read about it and thought I wonder if this could help. Let’s give it a go ordered the book off I went. And it took me a lot. Casey McGuire Davidson  17:06 You share the name of the book. I’m not sure we’ve said it. But yeah.   Caroline Thor  17:10 It’s The Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up. And there is, A Life Changing Magic To Tidying. It’s quite phenomenal, especially in my case, because it has changed my life in more ways than one. But I was doing this to our home. And I could just feel myself getting karma and karma and things like leaving the house were easy with three little kids because I wasn’t looking for the stuff. And the kids sensed it. And one day my middle daughter, she was four at the time, she turned around to me, and she said, Why are you a nicer mommy now? I was like, whoa, okay, I hadn’t realized quite how much but she’d even at her age had been picking up on this that I was feeling overwhelmed. And when our environments make us feel anxious and overwhelmed and stressed, even if we don’t realize it, then it’s more likely that of an evening, we’re going to grab that glass of wine. Because we want something that’s going to make us feel relaxed straightaway. Because having to tidy it all up is not relaxing, when you’ve got a home that’s already tidied up and you can sit down, have an evening, and pick up your book and relax, great, you don’t need that glass of wine with you. But when you’ve got all this chaos in front of you, and you’re feeling overwhelmed, of course, you’re going to look for a crutch that’s going to make you feel better instantly. And so that is why I think it is so important.   Casey McGuire Davidson  18:37 And you’re going to laugh but one of the things that I actually always tell my clients so we can talk this through is that in very early sobriety, one thing that a lot of women do, and I think it’s because we’re so programmed to be efficient and multitaskers is okay, I’m not going to drink and I’m going to you know, start a healthcare because I want to lose all this weight. And I’m going to exercise and I’m going to clean up my whole house right? I’m going to do all the things. And literally, I’ve said to my clients, like, this is not the time to Marie Kondo it up and put all of your clothes on your bed and get it all clean, because you really need to lower the bar and to do self-care and to like, you know, have a chance to take care of yourself. So, I love everything you’re saying. And I think picking like your sober bubble sanctuary in the evening in early sobriety is enough to start like you can shut the doors to some of the other rooms for a while. Do you agree with that?   Caroline Thor  19:53 I do totally agree with that. I mean, it’s the same for if you decided you’re going to go on go on a diet and you’re going to do or the healthy cooking and the exercise and you’d go to bed early. And it’s just not doable. But what I always advocate, and I think this is where it is possible to do it along with your sobriety journey, is I always advocate, don’t try and do it all in one go, just do 10 minutes a day, just say to yourself for 10 minutes today, I am going to work on the next thing I had planned to do. And it’s amazing what we can get done in 10 minutes when we put our mind to it. And this is what the ladies in my membership are doing all the time, they just do 10 minutes each day. And if they feel like it, they do a little bit more. But I had a lady actually write to me today and said, I did 10 minutes. And I realized that was enough. So, I stopped. And then we all celebrate, because there’s this myth that you have to do it all that as women, we have to do it all and it has to be done now. And I totally disagree with that. I think little steps, little goals. And if you keep taking those little steps, and it’s the same in your your road to sobriety as well, you will get to your goal. Eventually, when you do a massive let’s dump all the clothes on the bed. And now I’m feeling really overwhelmed. And I’ve got to do it all today, because I’ve got nowhere to sleep tonight. That’s when it starts to go horribly wrong. And it is fine for me to go into someone’s home and do that with them when they’ve booked me for five hours to work with them. But if you’re doing it on your own, I always recommend just choose a few T shirts and make a decision about those. And next time choose a few pairs of socks and make a decision about those. But don’t try and do it all in one go. So, I agree with you totally.   Casey McGuire Davidson  21:44 Yeah, no. And I liked that. That theory, I would say. You know, I as I remember when I did my bedroom, it was in April. And I quit drinking in late February. So, I was kind of I was 6 weeks alcohol-free. I think when I started doing it, which is about right. I mean, I think the first step in creating an environment that supports not drinking is getting rid of all the alcohol in your house. And if you can’t do that, absolutely getting rid of your alcohol of choice like, I could have not drank, if I had red wine in the house or on the counter, I would have broken at some point when I had a terrible day or when I had a big craving. So that needed to be gone. Some people move all their wine glasses in the back of their cabinet or away from where they usually are. I think that’s great too. Non-alcoholic wine and gin and tonic is fantastic, as well. But if you’re not doing that, like moving all the glasses away, getting all the alcohol out of your house, creating a corner that you’d like to retreat to in the evening to read or even your bathroom taking a bubble bath and sort of getting bubble bath and getting candles for your bathroom. Like those are the small choices in mind to make in early sobriety, to support getting out of the drinking cycle.   Caroline Thor  23:27 Yeah, I totally think that makes sense. And then as you start to feel more confident in the choices that you’re making, that’s the point at which you can start to say Okay, I’m ready to add something else into this and this is where you and I are both massive advocates of atomic habits. This is where you sort of habit building Okay, now I’ve or habit stacking. Now, I’m not doing this anymore. And I’m doing this instead. What else could I do at this time to support that? And what could I add to it? And you gradually, very slowly build on these habits. And it’s the same with when you have decluttered and organized your home, or you’ve done one of the categories and everything has got a place to go back to which means you can just reset and tidy up in 10 minutes each evening which is just a dream for most people. But it takes practice, and it takes habit building in order to develop that. This is exactly the same with your sobriety journey and this is what I found as well having stopped having alcohol since January.   Casey McGuire Davidson  24:36 I do that as well in terms of like and this is so basic, but I tend to work out at 6am. I sign up for classes, so the night before I put my sneakers and my workout clothes, like on the floor of the bathroom so that I don’t have to turn on all the lights and wake up my husband. Also, it is super easy when my alarm goes off to go there and change. The other thing I like to do is make my coffee the night before, so that when I come downstairs, it’s ready. I mean, sometimes when I’m going to bed, I’d be like, okay, but I get coffee in the morning in this quiet, beautiful house, where you know, you’re sort of trading those boozy nights on the couch, maybe watching something you won’t remember falling asleep on the couch for these quiet, peaceful mornings.

So, those are sort of 2 things I do to sort of set up my environment to support the kind of lifestyle I want to lead.

  Caroline Thor  25:40 Yeah, that makes total sense. And I think when you are doing that, you are setting yourself up for success. And I think it’s really important, right from the start to celebrate those little wins, and you’re celebrating by how I got my coffee in the morning. This is so great, something to look forward to. And as people go through their journey, whether it’s decluttering, and organizing or sobriety I think celebrating those wins, and rewarding ourselves in a different way than we have been, is so important, because that’s how change happens.   Casey McGuire Davidson  26:17 Yeah. And I think that one of the things we do in early sobriety is the idea of sober treats the idea of, you know, giving yourself gifts and rewards, so you don’t feel deprived in early sobriety, the gifts are just different. And so, you know, buying yourself an essential oil diffuser, or getting some new pillows, or, you know, cleaning out a space to work out. Those can be sober treats that you’re giving yourself, because you’re actually taking care of yourself. I mean, you do need self-soothing, you do need peace, you do need to unwind after the day, you’re just choosing a way that actually will bring you peace and calm and self-care. Caroline Thor  27:10 Yeah. And it’s interesting, we I do something very, very similar in my membership.

We have Wednesday wins every week. And for me, it’s a win if they say, I went out for a walk today, because we’re talking about visualizing our ideal lifestyle. And yes, the decluttering and organizing we’re doing is helping us get to that point. But part of our ideal lifestyle is also potentially not drinking or going out for a walk every day, or I’m going to sit on my backside on the sofa for half an hour and read a book and no one can disturb me, which I’m very bad. I’m bad at doing that. I’m really bad at doing that, that I should do that more often. But those are wins too. And it doesn’t have to always be so focused on the goal. We have to celebrate the self-care things that we do around that, that make what we’re aiming for successful, because without them we wouldn’t succeed.

Casey McGuire Davidson  28:08

Yeah, no, completely. And I actually have, I have an Amazon store because people kept asking me what my favorite products were for sober treats, or for sleep and for mood. So, I’ll link that in the show notes. Because if you have no idea what a sober treat is, that isn’t alcohol. Looking through some of these might be like, Oh, actually, I’d like that. That’s nice. And a lot of people sort of tie those sober treats to milestones or to, you know, when I am 30 days alcohol-free, I’m going to get myself this treat. But definitely, don’t wait until 30 days. In the beginning, I want… You need to plan out your treats every single day.

So, you know, you know your treat, we’re not drinking. Your reward on Monday is x and on Tuesday is why and on Wednesday, you know, reading a good book, taking a bubble bath, going for a lovely walk and getting a latte. Whatever it is, you need something every day where you’re like, Okay, this is just for me, and it’s something I enjoy. Caroline Thor  29:20 love that I actually posted on my Instagram today. I bought myself some flowers yesterday. And I put the photo in my stories and then I did a poll. How often do you buy yourself flowers sort of every day? Every day? That would be luxury. Wouldn’t every week, sometimes, or never. And people have gone bonkers for this poll today. It’s been absolutely fascinating.

And I don’t think we treat ourselves enough. You know, if we love something? If it sparks joy for us, then we should do it.

  Casey McGuire Davidson  29:53 Yeah, I love that. So, one of the things I told my client, and we talked about up this not doing everything at once because she was like, Okay, I’m not drinking, but oh my God, I need to clean out all the papers in my office, they’ve been driving me crazy. And my attic is a mess. And so, I said to her, I was like, Okay, how long has it been a complete mess. And she was like, 7 years. And I was like, alright, you are trying to break a highly addictive habit. This is not the time to somehow do something that you have not done in 7 years. But when you are ready to start doing the KonMari® method, you mentioned different categories, do you have a recommendation of what people should start with? Casey McGuire Davidson 

Hi there. If you’re listening to this episode, and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit.   The Sobriety Starter Kit is an online self study sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step by step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one on one coaching. And the sobriety starter kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it. And when it fits into your schedule. You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time. This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step by step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking, from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life. You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better. You’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach, you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course 

Caroline Thor  30:45 Yeah, always start with clothes. Always. Because clothes are something that are very personal to us, obviously, that they’re close to our skin all the time. And it’s something that we have a very strong feeling about quite easily, it’s a good thing to practice on what sparks joy for me. So, if I give you an example, you could, you could pick up a dress and say, I love this dress, I feel great in it, I feel super sexy. When I wear it, I love the color. I love the length of it, when I’m out, in it, I feel amazing. Great that dress sparks joy for you. That’s clear. But you may have another dress that you put on. And actually, you’re always sort of itching at the shoulder because it’s a little bit tight, or there’s a label at the back that scratchy or you feel a bit self-conscious, because it’s so low cut that it just doesn’t quite feel right, or it’s too tight around the middle now. And we keep these things in our closet. And he sort of like, shouldn’t every day you feel like the person in that other dress. And we should go out into the world feeling our best confidence selves. And whether that’s your sweat pants, or whether it’s your Lycra for the gym. You should always be wearing clothes that spark joy for you. And someone recently said to me, you can’t have a closet that’s only full of clothes that spark joy for you. That’s not realistic. I disagree. I think it is. And I think it’s something that over time is something we can work on. So, you go through your clothes first. And the clothes is also a place where you’re going to find those sentimental items. That T-shirt from university that you haven’t won since you were there. You wouldn’t probably fit in it anymore, or I wouldn’t fit your mind anyway. But we’re hanging on to it, just in case because of sentimental reasons. And this is the lovely thing about the KonMari® method. I always advise clients to have like a moving box or a washing basket or something with you the whole time you’re decluttering regardless of what category. And any item you find where you’re like, oh, this came from Grandma, I don’t. I can’t part with it. Put it in the sentimental box. And because otherwise you get stuck, you get stuck trying to decide. And then, at the very, very end, you can go back to that box and make decisions. But clothes is a great place to start. And I also think as well, when you’re doing something like a sobriety journey, your weight is going to fluctuate. I would imagine. Does it or am I wrong with that?   Casey McGuire Davidson  33:28 No, no. It definitely does. It may not just for anyone listening to this, it may not happen immediately. Because everybody thinks you know, calories in calories out I’m cutting out a bottle of wine or all this hard alcohol or X number of beers. I should be dropping x pounds a week. And it doesn’t work that way in the beginning. You know, we’ve actually really fucked up our body and our digestive system and our livers and our kidneys. I mean, you name it. Alcohol has a real toll on that. And I highly recommend not doing a diet at the same time. Yeah, regardless, you are going to lose bloat, right? Bloat around your stomach, bloat in your face. And you know, say, you get to 60, 100 days. You will notice that difference it does come. So, you’re right there is a weight loss journey. There is a time when you suddenly have the energy to exercise more to go on walks to lift weights. So, it is coming but definitely not right at the beginning. So, we’re saying if you’re going on a journey where you might lose weight shift, tell us about that.   Caroline Thor  34:46 Yeah, so why do we want clothes in our closet that don’t fit us? I mean, if we have gained weight and I’ve gained a good bit of weight over the last couple of years. I don’t want clothes that when I open the closet are just sitting there laughing at me. Go ha, you don’t fit in me anymore. You used to be a lot thinner. You know, I don’t want that. I don’t want my clothes making me feel bad. And I don’t want to have to route through them to find the things that do fit me. I want to open my closet and be confronted by things that I know will fit. And that I love wearing. And that made me feel confident and great. So, I always recommend, if you have items of clothes that you have absolutely loved in the past, like really, really loved but they no longer fit. You either, you’ve lost or gained weight, take them out and store them somewhere else for now and give them a year. And if in a year, they still don’t fit you, it’s probably time to let them go. And just have clothes in your closet that fit you for the current size that you are. And we can all get these vacuum bags and sort of wish them down, suck the air out and make them smaller and store them higher up in our closets on a shelf out of the way so that they’re not together with the ones that we’re currently wearing. And that also makes us feel better as feel better about ourselves. And when we’re going out more confidently in the morning, we feel more confident about other aspects of our life without us even realizing it. It makes us believe we can do the thing, whether that’s stopping drinking or doing the exercise or whatever it happens to be.   Casey McGuire Davidson  36:27 Yeah, and I know that, you know, we always talk about like, you can’t hate yourself. Well, a lot of times when you’re drinking, we talk no end of shit to ourselves. Like we get up and berate ourselves, I used to wake up and be like What the fuck is wrong with you, Casey, I used to write myself all these letters about how I had no discipline, and I needed to, you know, get my shit together. And with clothes as well, I think we sometimes try to punish ourselves. Like, I’m not going to buy new clothes, or I’m not going to get that thing until I lose weight because I don’t deserve it. And in my mind, this is a motivator, right? Like, if I had nice clothes, then I will be motivated to lose weight. And it just doesn’t work that way in either way. And you know, when you think back on your life, we shouldn’t hate any part of our lives. Like you said, it should spark joy. We deserve to be happy. And so, I’ve embraced that. Obviously, in sobriety, you absolutely can’t hate yourself. Well, you should be proud of every 1% improvement that you’re making to live a healthier life. And it just doesn’t work. It just doesn’t work to beat yourself up and have that be a motivator to stop drinking, you need to envision like you’re saying the person you want to be and start taking steps towards that in a positive way. But with clothing, too, you know, keeping clothes that don’t fit you or not allowing yourself to buy clothes that actually do fit you as some kind of twisted motivating factor that I have done. So, zero judgment. It’s just not a way to live.   Caroline Thor  38:24 No. And this is actually this has been a big discussion in my membership this week because one lady had, or two ladies actually had, decluttered their closets. Ready for season switch because obviously summer wardrobe coming in. And they messaged me, and they were like, Caroline, what do we do? If we’ve done that, and we’re left with nothing that fits, that sparks joy, like nothing. I have nothing that fits me that sparks joy, because she’d put on a bit of weight. I was like, then get clothes that do fit you. And if your budget is a problem, then there are so many amazing secondhand online shops now where you can order online. Have things sent to you for a fraction of the cost that it would cost you to buy the new plus, it’s great for the environment. So, it’s a bit of a win-win. And okay, you may not have those clothes for very long. But if you’ve not spent a fortune on them, it’s not going to matter anyway. You can then donate them later or re-sell them because you’re right, you want to have clothes that you feel great in, and you deserve to have clothes that you feel great in.   Casey McGuire Davidson  39:35 I totally agree with that. And you know, you’re right. First of all, when I stopped drinking, I saved $550 In the first month. Like, I love those trackers where you can calculate how much you have saved by not drinking and you will be amazed what that is. So, in 3 months, not only did I feel happier, less bloated, I did happen to lose weight and get in better shape. But I also had saved $1,500. So, a sober treat can be a shopping trip to get clothes that you feel good in, regardless of whether you’re heavier or less than you used to be. The other thing I would say is, I personally like, for some reason, I find it hard to find clothes in like a lot of places. But my husband loves going to Goodwill. And whenever I go with him, you know, to get clothes for my kids, and my son likes to shop there. I am amazed at how many designer clothes like good quality, brand name, fancy clothes are in there. I’m just like, holy shit, this is $7. That’s insane. So, there are ways to find nice things that fit you. The other thing I would say is, I’ve seen people who are going to big events, and instead of buying this very expensive dress that they’re going to wear once, they do Rent the Runway, and I know there are other things like that, but they get sent five dresses. They wear one. I mean, I’m always amazed they post. You know, I have a friend who actually wrote the book, the Sober Lush. It’s amazing. I’ve linked to the podcast. It’s about living this decadent, fabulous life, and sobriety. But she’s an author, and every single year she goes to this book awards show. Her name is Amanda Eyre Ward. And she’s written a lot of Reese Witherspoon, you know, choice books. I mean, she’s wonderful. But she rents the runway, and she tries on 5 dresses, and everybody votes as to what’s her their favorite, but like, that sparks joy. I mean, that is wonderful.   Caroline Thor  41:54 Yeah, because not the thing that most people find really hard to deal with when they’re decluttering their closet. If you have spent an awful lot of money on an item of clothing. But actually, you realize it doesn’t spark joy for you, you never get it out and put it on because you don’t feel great in it. The guilt associated with letting that go is huge because of the amount of money you’ve spent on it. And you were saying about the amount of money you can save when you stop drinking. The same is true when you start to declutter and organize because you realize I don’t need as many clothes as I had. We were 20% of our clothes at the time. But the average person now I can put hands on heart say I wear every item of clothing in my closet, I don’t have a huge choice. But what I do have I love wearing and I just feel happy to put them on every day. So, there is no discussion in the morning. We, in my head, or shall I wear that or that it doesn’t matter. Just grab it and go. And you end up not going out and doing those impulse buys. Because you really stop and think do I love this? It might be 50% off, but Will I ever wear it. And the amount of money you end up saving in the long run on not buying things that you don’t really need is absolutely phenomenal.   Casey McGuire Davidson  43:18 So yeah, the briars, because I think I cleaned out my closet in this way, like four years ago. And now I probably wear 10% of my closet. And I need to do this. But I can only imagine the 10 minutes a day is what I think I could handle because otherwise it would be too overwhelming. It just it just would. And you know, of course when I get rid of things in my closet, I have to try on every single thing like that’s just of like, do I like this? Do I not? So yes, you’re inspiring me to do this. What about after clothing? What’s the next thing?   Caroline Thor  44:02 The next category is books. And that’s hard that a lot of people find that really, really hard. And there’s this weird myth that was going round on the internet a few years ago that calamari and Marie Kondo was all about, you’re not allowed books. Not allowed. But I think it was because one of the Netflix series. A couple had got rid of a lot of books, but that was their choice. She wasn’t encouraging them to do it. They just didn’t spark joy for them anymore. So, books is a really hard one. If you’re a book type of person, but I think when you look at them and say hand on heart, will I ever read that again? And this is where visualizing your ideal lifestyle comes into play. How is having that book on the shelf serving the life I want to have if I am never going to pick it up and read it ever? Books is quite an interesting one because it’s One of the quotes is different. If you get rid of an item of clothing, it could be really hard to replace that particular item to get a copy of it again. But books, secondhand online library, if you realize further down the line, you’ve made a mistake, you’re going to be able to get that book again to read or find it on a Kindle somewhere. So, you always have the possibility and they take up so much room, and they collect dust. And part of visualizing my ideal lifestyle was that my home had to be easy to clean, because I hate cleaning with a passion, hate it. So, I had to have things, not many things around that were going to collect dust. And that was important for me. And so, I had a lot of books, but I did end up getting rid of a lot of books as well. And you can sell them online, there’s these days apps on your phone and you scan the barcode, they tell you how much pack them in a box, take them off to the post and away they go. And the money’s on your bank account. Within a few days. It’s an easy thing to get out of the house, once you’ve made a decision about or you donate them or whatever. Casey McGuire Davidson  46:09 I just went to Half Price Books. And I was amazed that we had four different boxes of books. And we kind of we have a we have sort of a garage area where every time we do our families like okay, we’re doing a blitz, we get rid of a lot of stuff, but we sort of move it from one place to another. But then, you know, every once in a while my husband gets so frustrated. He’s like, That’s it, we need to clean out this stuff. So, we go to Goodwill and Half Price Books. But I did get a bunch of new books that I’m excited about. So, you know, that’s, that’s positive. That’s good. All right. Yeah. What about What about next? So, you do books next, what’s next?   Caroline Thor  46:55 The next one is my pet hate. And that’s papers. Yeah, ah, I love doing papers with clients, because I love being able to help them find that peace of mind. But papers was the one I really, really struggled with when I built.   Casey McGuire Davidson  47:13 Your job going over to someone else’s house for 5 hours and like decluttering theirs and going through their paperwork like this sounds like the worst possible nightmare for me. You know what I mean? So, it is amazing that you love to do that as well.   Caroline Thor  47:29 By the time I get to papers, I’ve already done clothes and books with clients. And I’ve got to know them. Because all these stories come out. And it’s not actually about the decluttering and organizing. It’s a bit like when you’re going through the sobriety journey. There is emotional stuff going on inside, which is the reason why we are feeling overwhelmed with the clutter and disorganization or why we’re like grabbing that glass of wine. And I’ve had it on many occasions where I’ve walked into a client’s home for the first time and thought, well, it looks better than mine does. Why am I here? But for them, because of the internal stuff that’s going on that it’s too much. They’re feeling overwhelmed, they don’t feel like they do know where everything is, and they’re right, they haven’t got a category a place for everything to go back to. And that’s when it starts to feel overwhelming, it can look tidy, but you start opening the drawers and it’s chaos. So, by the time we get to papers, it’s a very personal thing to invite someone into your home to go through your underwear drawer with you. You have to have, a certain amount of trust in someone. And I learned a lot about them and their stories and their struggles. And there’s always a lot of tears, there’s always tears. And that’s just part of it. So, by the time we get to papers, we can sit and have a chat about how the kids are getting on and stuff while we’re going through the paperwork and the bank statements and all the rest of it. And it’s fun because I’ve got to know this person. And I know some of them I know more about some of them than probably I do about might some of my closest friends because we’ve really talked through this stuff to help them come to the crux of why they’re struggling with this overwhelm of, of decluttering and organizing. I love it because I know I make it well. It’s like what you do, you are making a massive difference in someone’s life. There is this life changing Magic of Tidying Up and it’s a privilege to be part of that journey with someone as it is for you with theirs as well.   Casey McGuire Davidson  49:40 Yeah, and sometimes you need someone to come from the outside even just to dedicate the time to doing it. And it is true that when people pay money, they pay attention. They actually follow through on that and I found that in every area my life. Otherwise, it’s too easy to like, sign up for a free webinar and not watch it or watch it but half pay attention or watch it and not execute on it. But when you pay actual money, you’re like, Alright, I’m doing this.   Caroline Thor  50:15 Yeah. And it’s that date in the calendar for my clients as well. Caroline’s going to ring the doorbell on that morning. And I can’t procrastinate on this anymore. I can’t say, I don’t feel like it’s day, I’ll start tomorrow. And it’s like that for your clients as well. You know, they’ve, they’ve been pushing back this day when they’re going to stop drinking. All my time has been pushing back the day when they’re going to start decluttering because it feels overwhelming. But having that guide, and I think we are this were this guide to help them through this path that they need to follow. It gives them accountability. It gives them massive motivation. And it’s fun to share that journey with somebody. And like you were saying before, I don’t think I could do more than 10 minutes. I bet if you had someone come over an organizer, or even a really good friend, and did it together, it would be fun. You can have conversations while you’re doing with it. 10 minutes will turn into an hour turn into two hours, there will be giggles it would be great. And before you know it, your closets done. So, it’s having that motivate motivation that another human being to connect with while you do it really helps.   Casey McGuire Davidson  51:29 That makes sense. So, papers are tough. But you end up with a massive recycling bin, I imagine I actually love Google Documents, because you can search them that is my favorite thing. Like I’ve got hundreds of Google Docs. But when something comes up, like, oh, we just had this repair from a plumber, or whatever it is, I take a picture of it, I put it in a Google Doc, I write down the information of who they are. And you know what they did and how much it caused and where the repair was. And then I get rid of that paper. Because whenever I need a plumber, or you know someone who does pest control, I just search and I’m like, oh, on this date, I called this person and they did X. Yeah, that’s how I kind of control some of it. Yeah.   Caroline Thor  52:18 And I think also papers is the one that without us realizing it stresses out the most. And it’s like people often say to me, how can I? I mean, these days, we pretty much have a bank statements digitalized. But how can a bank statement or an insurance papers spark joy, it’s not necessarily that piece of paper, but knowing where it is when you need it that sparks joy, rather than it being under a pile of papers and you having manic three hours with that horrible knot in your stomach because you know you need that. And it’s really important, but you can’t find it. So having those papers in order, is I think what sparks joy and not keeping all the ones you don’t need were really bad at like you were saying about the recycling of papers. We’re really bad at holding onto paper that we really don’t need, like instruction manuals for appliances. They’re all on one nearly all online PDF these days. You don’t need to keep the manual for the washing machine and the cooker. And they’re thick and thin every language under the sun and we just don’t need them.   Casey McGuire Davidson  53:21 Yeah, you’re right. And I’m actually looking, I’ve done my core values work obviously, as a as a life coach. I’ve done it a number of times I do it with my clients, but I just pulled up what they are. And you know, on there, it’s pleasure and integrity and connection and optimism and beauty. But when I look at pleasure, optimism and beauty, your physical space very much feeds into that.   Caroline Thor  53:49 Yeah, it does. And you need an environment that supports you. And when I mean I remember years ago before I did the KonMari® method. It took me a week to find our passports before we went on holiday and thank God I’d started looking a week before because I put them in a safe place but who knew where that safe place was because no one yes. And that was so stressful. That was so stressful, and my husband was about to lose the will to live with me. And now I have a filing cabinet and I have one file at the front that says vi t very important things. And as soon as we get home from a holiday, the passports go back into that file. I know where they are, and I have reminders on my phone for when they’re going to expire like three months before so that I can make sure I get the passports renewed and I’m not left in this fix of we’re about to go on holiday but the little ones passports expired.   Casey McGuire Davidson  54:50 I love phone reminders too because otherwise you’re almost stressed out yeah that you’re forget something in your keeping it in your mind as yet you We talked about the mental load motherhood, oh, but trying to remember everything. If it’s on a calendar, you can, you know, on a Google Calendar on a physical calendar, whatever it is, you’re like, Okay, I can forget about that. For right now, because it’s taken care of, I will be reminded when the time is right.   Caroline Thor  55:21 Yeah. Vaccinations for kids, for animals, all of it. I get reminders all the time, and I would be lost without it.

I am not naturally organized. I really, really struggle. Which sounds crazy when that’s my job. But the KonMari® method saved me when I was 10 years ago when I first applied it. And this is why I really am passionate about helping other women find that piece. It doesn’t have to be hard.

  Casey McGuire Davidson  55:49 So, one thing I know a lot of women who listen to this show have kids, young kids, all the toys. I know when my kids were young, I really hate it when I see all the stuff around like it drives me crazy. So, my kids went to a Montessori School for a while and we got all these plastic bins with the different toys in it. And we would bring them out one by one from the bin and then put it back because that’s what they did. And I thought it was incredible. What’s your recommendation on that?   Caroline Thor  56:26 Regularly declutter because things become age inappropriate, they grow out of things. And I’ve been at so many people’s houses, and we’ve still got baby toys in with stuff that 789 year olds playing with. So, getting rid of the things that are no longer age appropriate. And toy rotation is an absolute Godsend. They don’t need to have access to all their toys all the time. If they have a small selection, they will play intensively with those things. And then when you swap them out for other things, it’s like Christmas. They’re like, ah, because they’ve not seen it for like maybe a month, two months. And then they play really intensively with that as well, which is great for you as a parent, because your kids are absorbed in what they’re doing. Very often, I go to people’s houses, and they open their kids bedroom door and go, Oh, just look at it. It’s so overwhelming. Like, well, if it’s overwhelming for you, how do you think your kids feel? You know, you’re asking them to tidy up? Are you crazy? How are kids going to know where to start with that. So having less in the room in the first place, either bins that you can put up on top of wardrobes and closets, if you have space up up above to get them up out of the ways that kids can’t get them down and go through the mall. Or if you have a basement where you can store things or in the garage, and then swap them out. And it is absolute magic. We had Do you know these Duplo bricks like the big Lego bricks for that. We’ve got a massive box of those. And I had it up in the attic from for a couple of years because my kids were out of this now. And then we had a little kid come to play. So, I brought it down. So, he had something to play with. And my kids who were quite old by this point were like zoom, play, play, play the whole afternoon building things building towers, it was like they’d never seen this stuff before. And that’s how it is for kids when you present them with something that they’ve not seen for a long time. So, toy rotation, and then my biggest thing is, make it easy for them to be able to tidy up. Do not expect them to home Edit Source their Lego bricks into colored boxes, because they just going to get frustrated and not want to do it. It’s enough that you’ve got one box that all the Playmobil goes in one box that perhaps all Barbies go in, they don’t have to all be separated out so that all Barbie shoes are in one box and all her dresses are hung up somewhere else. Just throw it in a box, they’re going to get it out and mess up, mess it up to play with it anyway. So, it doesn’t really matter as long as it’s out of the way. And if this toys are in your living space in your living room, and you don’t want to have to look at them, then look that you’ve got nice storage solutions, perhaps like a bench or something with pull out boxes underneath that the kids can put things back away, push them back under and you can have an adult space to enjoy in the evening.   Casey McGuire Davidson  59:23 Yeah, that’s great advice. Well, I think that hopefully we’ve given people a lot of different places to start. And I know you have so much more on your website and in your membership and everything else. So, can you tell us where people can find you if they’re interested in working with you?   Caroline Thor  59:44 Yeah, the best place to go is my website caroline-thor.com/podcast from my podcast page. And from that, you can go to everything and see all my online services and stuff as well. Wow.   Casey McGuire Davidson  1:00:01 That’s great. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. This has been great. Of course, now I’m like, Alright, I’m finally going to do my closet. And what’s funny if anyone has ever seen a video of me in my office, my background is lovely. It’s totally organized. It looks great, surrounding me on the sides where the camera does not show. It’s a total mess. And I’m like, it bothers me all the time.   Caroline Thor  1:00:27 Yeah, this is the problem. These days, we’re used to seeing images on Instagram or videos on Instagram. And it all looks perfect. And we’re projecting this on our own lives, it should look like that. And the reality is, that’s not how people live. It’s not how I live either. We’re a family. We have five pets, it’s chaos. We get. We get stuff out during the day. And it doesn’t get put away always straightaway because something happens and we get distracted. But when you know that for 10 minutes of an evening when the whole family gets together and just picks up their stuff and knows where it goes back to and it’s a quick reset. That is just magical.   Casey McGuire Davidson  1:01:10 That’s awesome. And I have to ask you before we go all right, what are your five pets?   Caroline Thor  1:01:15 Okay, we have that all from rescue homes, all of them. We have whiskey, the dog. Then we have Max and Luna, the cats. And we have two rabbits who have now taken over pretty much the whole of our garden, much to my husband’s horror. We have no lawn left.   Casey McGuire Davidson  1:01:34 Okay, I just had to know. All right, thank you so much. It’s been wonderful to speak with you.   Caroline Thor  1:01:40 Thank you, it’s been an absolute joy.   Thank you for listening to this episode of The Hello Someday podcast. If you’re interested in learning more about me, the work I do, and access free resources and guides to help you build a life you love without alcohol. Please visit hellosomedaycoaching.com. And I would be so grateful if you would take a few minutes to rate and review this podcast so that more women can find it. And join the conversation about drinking less and living more.