SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Drinking, stop drinking, stopped drinking, stopping drinking, simplify your life, sobriety, life, simplicity, self-care, decluttering, downsizing, paying off debt, 30 days, rest, gentle, rest more, stress less, live the life you actually want, rewiring your brain reward, planning out treats, appreciating, coffee in the morning, without a hangover, sober treat, sober treats, sober, getting a massage, pleasures, joy, seasons, self-care, early sobriety, habit, change, overwhelm, stress, triggers, step, align, choice, permission slip, setting boundaries to reduce stress, living with intention, authenticity, choices, align with your values, vision, meditation

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Courtney Carver

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a bus, how to sit with your emotions, when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

 

Hi there.

Today, we are talking about

 

how you can simplify your life with sobriety.

 

My guest is Courtney Carver. She’s the author of Soulful Simplicity, Project 333, and the website BeMoreWithLess.com. Her new book, Gentle, Rest More, Stress Less, and Live the Life You Actually Want, is available now.

She’s been featured in countless articles, podcasts, interviews, including good morning, America, CNN, the wall street journal and the New York times and I first reached out to Courtney because I’ve loved her work and her approach.

[00:02:03]

And I started reading about what she had written about stopping drinking. She has some great articles about how stopping drinking was the one thing she did to simplify her life the most, why she decided to stop drinking and how she did it, and 10 cool things that happened when she stopped drinking.

 

So, Courtney, I was so thrilled when I reached out to you and you said yes.

[00:02:28]

I, there was never a question in my mind as soon as I read your email, because even though my work largely focuses on simplicity and self-care, sobriety did just happen to be the one thing that did simplify my life the most. And considering how much I simplified otherwise, it was a BIG surprise to me.

 

[00:02:53]

Yeah, I mean, I’ve been reading and you said, you made all these changes in your life and I want you to share them because I think they are fantastic advice to all the listeners. But you said decluttering, living with less stuff, paying off tens of thousands of dollars in debt, giving away most of your clothes, downsizing your apartment, and you were surprised that the thing you did to simplify your life the most was stop drinking alcohol.

[00:03:21]

That’s exactly right.

So how did that happen? Why did that make such a big difference in your life? The not drinking?

Well, I had gone through periods of time where I wouldn’t drink for 30 days or something like that. Or I would, you know, have a little too much fun on vacation and decided I would need to clean up my act for a few weeks.

 

[00:03:47]

And when I stopped drinking in January of 2019, so 6 years ago, it was one of those times I had been on a trip. I had a lot of fun, a little too much fun and decided just to take a minute. And I figured I’ll stop for 30 days. And I knew I had another trip coming up where I was going to Europe to visit with family and see the sites.

 

[00:04:15]

And I thought I’ll stop drinking maybe until I go to Europe. I never went back. I, I didn’t intentionally stop for good, but after 30 days, I didn’t feel like going back and something happened in between that. I’ll share if you’re interested that I think contributed, although I don’t know, but when I hit that 100 day mark, there was even such a bigger difference than all of the times I had gone for 30 days and then I just kept going.

 

[00:04:49]

And soon after that 100 day mark, I knew that I was finished.

That’s amazing because that’s what I did as well. And that’s what I, I highly recommend on this show is to take a break for a 100 days because 30 days is great. But the 1st 2 weeks, you’re sort of going through withdrawal. You’re so not used to it.

[00:05:08]

And if, you know, you’re going to drink it 30 days, you’re almost counting down the last 2 weeks. 2 weeks white knuckling it for alcohol as your reward. And exactly day 31, right? Like you’re like, okay, I can go 30 days, but you’re just holding on till that day. As opposed to 100 days, you actually get to learn how to live and enjoy things without alcohol.

[00:05:33]

And you just see such a huge difference in your body and your relationships and your habits. I mean, what did you notice at a hundred days? I was definitely sleeping better and I had less anxiety overall. And I think the thing that really stood out to me was that I wasn’t making any decisions about alcohol.

[00:05:58]

Like, what am I going to drink? How much should I drink? Do I need a designated driver? Will I feel good the next day? Because By the time I stopped drinking, even a couple of glasses would make me feel bad, and even one glass would interrupt my sleep, but I still thought in my mind that it was relieving stress, it was taking the edge off, and I didn’t understand this kind of low level anxiety that was attached to you.

[00:06:29]

Every drink I took and every thought I had about drinking and there were so many decisions I mean buying it, drinking it, drinking it wisely And then of course there are the moments when I didn’t drink it so wisely and like what did I say? What did I commit to? Why do I have this person’s phone number?

[00:06:50]

And to eliminate that completely? Wow, it was just it opened up so much space in my life I was.

[00:07:01]

Yeah, you don’t realize the degree to which it subtly impacts your priorities and your decisions and sort of everything you do. I mean, to the point of like, okay, what do I have going on tomorrow morning? Can I drink more? Or like, Oh, I don’t necessarily want to do that on Saturday night because I want to relax, quote unquote, with some wine, right?

[00:07:28]

Or who am I going to spend time with? Or where are we going to go? That they have my favorite wine or all those little tiny things really added up. And it wasn’t like this was the first time I had thought about not drinking. I mean, I think for A lot of people that I’ve talked to, at least and myself included, it was years of, is this good for me?

[00:07:49]

Is this contributing to my life, adding value and tt finally came up that it wasn’t, and so I stopped.

[00:08:00]

Did you get any pushback in your life when you decided to remove it, or were people so used to you taking things out of your life to minimize stress and, you know, create more space that they were just like, oh, this is the next thing?

[00:08:16]

I think there was a little bit of pushback here and there, just like little comments or, you know, come on, just one, or we can just celebrate. Certainly not within my immediate family. They were all super supportive and it, it just didn’t really bother me. Actually, and I think because of the stage of life I was in, it wasn’t a big problem and I just remembered all of those times when I was drinking that I chose not to drink on one night where everyone else was and I’d be the only one without a hangover the next day and just feeling like.

[00:08:53]

How was that? Was it worth it guys? Like no.

Yeah, just like not waking up at 3am, waking up, feeling good and rested. I mean, I used to get really bad hangovers and I was also like a gray out drinker. I could never, a lot of times remember everything that happened and was sort of trying to figure that out on the back end.

[00:09:15]

Yeah, I just don’t need that anymore. And it was really my sister who inspired me because she quit close to the year before I did. And she’s a, like, very, very dear to my heart, a very close friend. And we enjoyed drinking together over the years and visiting each other. She lives in Europe. And so, it was part of our relationship and when she stopped, I still wasn’t planning on stopping, but when it was time for me to stop, I thought, I mean, she did it.

[00:09:48]

She’s still fun. She’s having a great time. I think that it’s time for me to like, it just really helped me. It helped make it easier for me to have someone in my corner like that.

[00:10:00]

Yeah, that’s amazing that you had that inspiration and that connection of someone else that you were very close to who was also doing this right and now even that it’s been.

[00:10:12]

I mean, 6 plus years will still, when we’re talking, if we had a bad night of sleep or something like that, we’ll say like, but imagine how that would have been if we were hung over, or if we had been drinking, or there’s just so many benefits in, in the way we spend our time together now and how we feel and how we treat other people.

[00:10:34]

I mean, it’s just really changed.

Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome.

You had mentioned that it kind of opened up more space in your life because it had been dominating like what you did or who you hung out with or all those things. What are some of the things that you’ve started doing after you stopped drinking or started doing more that with that extra time and energy?

[00:11:00]

I mean, one thing I started doing more of is really caring a lot less about what other people thought about my decisions. And then that was another step to opening up more space. It was just like, I really feel like I reclaimed myself and what matters to me and like, I like staying home. Actually, I don’t need to be the person that’s always going out every night.

[00:11:32]

Not that I was before, but just to say that I started really paying attention to. Myself and what I needed and what I wanted and it didn’t feel selfish. It didn’t it felt like exactly the right next step. And I think that that has contributed in a lot of ways to me, never even desiring a drink. And I know that’s not everyone’s experience.

[00:12:01]

Of course, but for me, it’s never been even a second thought of like, oh, maybe, or I kind of miss this. I really don’t like I’m so much happier on the other side of it.

Yeah, that’s awesome. And so, I know your work is rooted in simplicity, minimalism, self-compassion, mindful living. Can you sort of take me back to the beginning and tell me why that, how that began for you and sort of what the process was of going further down that path?

[00:12:35]

Of course. Well, if we flashback almost. Oh, gosh, I’m not going to be able to do the math now back to 2006. How about that? I was, I think living a pretty typical life. I was overextended in every area of my life, including time, energy, money. I was felt like I was always working always on a deadline back to back meetings.

[00:13:01]

Events for my daughter. I’m trying to take care of her and trying to find the perfect balance as if that’s even a real thing. And really deep in debt had a house that was way too big for us, but it didn’t feel, it just felt like we were doing what everyone else was doing. And that year, in 2006, I started to not feel well feeling really overrun, stressed out, and even the doctors that I talked to were like, yeah, it makes sense.

[00:13:33]

I mean, you’re you know, you’re working, you’re taking care of a child, a house, of course, you feel run down. This is probably just stress, which, while a little dismissive, was also, like, I, you know, But yeah, of course, that makes sense. But then my symptoms got worse and I was experiencing a lot of vertigo to the point where I was like holding on to the wall to walk and fatigue.

[00:14:00]

And then, I started to get some tingling in my hands and numbness in my face. And these were all. Things that had happened to me before, but never all at once. And so, after a few months of more tests, more doctors I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. And for me, it was the biggest wakeup call I’ve ever had.

[00:14:25]

It was the like, okay, this isn’t a, let’s just keep going and figure out what happens. This is like, everything has to stop. And we have to figure out what’s going on because my only all I knew about MS was, my boss at the time, had MS and was in a wheelchair and that’s all I knew about it. I didn’t know anything else.

[00:14:46]

I didn’t know. That’s been terrifying. It was terrifying. I really didn’t know what to expect. I just knew that I couldn’t keep pushing myself the way I had been pushing myself. And not only did I have to figure out the you know, the traditional health care part of it, but also what was, how was I going to change my life to live well with MS?

[00:15:10]

And this didn’t happen on the day I was diagnosed or the next day or the next day. It took me some time to get there, but I started researching, you know, how people were living well with MS and it kept coming back to reducing stress. Excess stress was contributing to exacerbations and relapses and disease progression.

[00:15:33]

And so, I wanted to eliminate all stress from my life, all stress, goodbye, which is not easy to do in the world we live in. No. So, what I had to settle for is, eliminating the stress that was in my control. And instead of doing it the way I had always done it before, which was kind of this like. My approach to habit change was like fast, furious, overnight, let’s get this done.

[00:15:59]

Let’s go big or go home. And I couldn’t do it that way this time because number one, I was exhausted. I was scared. I was like just full of unknowns. And so, I tried to do it differently. And I decided I would take it one thing at a time, one step at a time, one day at a time. And Inch by inch, habit by habit, year after year, I really changed.

[00:16:28]

Almost everything about my life I started removing stress from my diet. I started removing stress from my finances. As I said, I was deep in debt and while I thought I would always live in debt, I decided that. It was too stressful to be getting those collection calls and always feeling that I owe other people things.

[00:16:56]

So, it took a few years, but we paid off tens of thousands of dollars of debt. And then, while we were doing that, I started to look at the stuff in my house and realized that it was just this reminder of my debt and discontent. Like, why did I always need something else to feel happy and content? So, we started decluttering and getting rid of things we didn’t need.

[00:17:24]

And after a couple of years of doing that, we had too much house. And so, we got rid of the house and downsized to a small apartment. This is all happening over many, many years. I know I’m making it sound like last month, but we’ve since moved into a smaller house. We were in apartments for about seven years and then in 2020 bought a house and have stayed clutter-free, debt-free.

[00:17:56]

And then, in 2019, I became alcohol-free. So, it was kind of this progression. Oh, and my job that eventually went away too. And I created something new for myself. So, I think it was just all of these tiny steps that kept opening up this space and opening up this space. And by the time 2019 came around and I was questioning my alcohol consumption again.

[00:18:24]

I kind of thought I was not done simplifying, but I thought I had done most of it for sure. So, to have that much progress from this next change really has me with my eyes open to what’s next. Like, is there something else that is going to really free things up? But for the most part, I’m just really happy with the changes that I’ve made and more importantly, the way that I did it, , because I didn’t pile on a lot of extra stress to make those changes.

[00:18:55]

I was willing to take the time.

Yeah. I love that because I know a lot of women who listen to this podcast are feeling overscheduled, overwhelmed, high achieving and yet feeling like they can never do enough, like they’re failing at work or they’re failing as motherhood or, you know, they don’t see their friends enough and that’s where I was too.

[00:19:20]

I was Director at a, okay. 4-500 company, 2 little kids, and coming home and drinking a bottle of wine a night to, you know, quote, unquote, “unwind”. And then, doing it all again. And my nervous system was totally shot.

So, I also wanted to have you on because in your book, Gentle, you give really practical step by step, you know, Instructions, information, encouragement to sort of dial down that overwhelm, that stress, increase the self-care so you can sort of navigate life with more ease.

 

[00:19:58]

How did you break up the book? Because I loved, I loved the different sections.

Well, I appreciate that. So, within the book, there’s three different seasons, which I think help us to be gentle with ourselves. And the seasons are rest less and rise. And within each season, I’ve got some recommendations of things that you can practice and I wanted to be sure to include not only tiny steps that you can take to practice these things, but also a gentle step because, I mean, how many times do we read an article or read a book or get inspired and then we can’t close that gap between inspiration and action because we get too busy doing something else?

 

[00:20:49]

And instead of taking that like next little tiny step, we beat ourselves up because we didn’t do anything about it because our lives are so overwhelming. When we could actually acknowledge that I’m in a season of life right now that is overwhelming, whether it be with kids or other responsibilities.

[00:21:10]

And all that is in my like time and energy availability today is to rest for five minutes or to make a list of things. I’m not going to do next week. The tiniest things make a difference. And we’re so used to, and I think kind of programmed to believe that bigger is better. Going harder is better.

[00:21:37]

Pushing through is better. When I have found it to be the complete opposite.

And being gentle is actually one of the kindest things you can do for yourself and to the people around you.

Yeah, when I was reading your book, I was actually happily surprised at, as how much of the book and the advice and the permission you are giving people who read it align with the steps I encourage in early sobriety. Like, you need to avoid overwhelm and stress and triggers, you need to lower the bar, what can you take off your list, you need to listen to your body, If you’re tired, sleep.

 

[00:22:19]

If you’re hungry, eat. Like, not overriding your nervous system all the time. And you’re going to be really tired, so you need to rest. And self-care and small choice. Like, everything you were writing about aligned with what I think women need to do when they are changing that huge habit of drinking to unwind or take care of themselves or, or whatever it is.

 

[00:22:47]

And I totally recommend anyone listening to this, pick up the book because Courtney breaks it down within it for each step, not only with, with. Why to do it, but also with tiny steps to do it and a permission slip and I think that makes it much more approachable.

Yeah, my favorite part when I was reading it, I dog eared it, was your section on the new rules of rest and the permission slip that I just loved it, but in it and I’ll let you talk through it more.

 

[00:23:31]

But you know, the first one,

thou shalt read at least a few pages of a good book, listen to relaxing music, or enjoy a cup of tea before checking email or social media in the morning. Thou shalt take a nap or a bath long before there is a checkmark next to every single thing. On thine to do list, and you won’t apologize for resting or relaxing.

 

[00:23:56]

The reason I laughed is because I am, you know, a gold star girl. I am productive and multitasking. And my husband and I always make a list of weekend. What are we going to check off the list this weekend? Grocery shopping, laundry, kids games, and I actually write down like nap and read a book, so that I can cross them off as like, no, no, that was on the list for the week.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson 

Hi there. If you’re listening to this episode, and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit®.

 

The Sobriety Starter Kit® is an online self study sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step by step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one on one coaching. And the sobriety starter kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it. And when it fits into your schedule. You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time.

This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step by step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking, from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better. You’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach, you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course. 

 

[00:24:24]

Yeah, I think it’s so interesting how we, Again, back to, kind of like, how we’ve been programmed is that we have to earn our rest and that we prove who we are by what we do. Yeah, like you’re earning your worth for existing by what you deliver. That’s right. And within that broken measuring system, it’s never enough.

[00:24:48]

You will always have to do more if you’re always measuring your worth by what you accomplish and look, I have no problem with accomplishing things and doing things that you care about and doing your job and taking care of your family. However, you don’t have to get everything done before you rest before you take care of yourself.

[00:25:11]

And especially if someone’s giving up drinking or making another big habit change. You need even more like you need more support that you give yourself. You need more care. You need more love. And so if you’re caught in that, like I’m measuring who I am by what I do, you will not break for that.

[00:25:33]

So, that’s why I think creating these new rules for rest are so important and we should all be creating our own rules because the old rules, which say, you have to earn your rest. And even if you’re sick, you should just push right through. And if you’re lucky and privileged, you can take a vacation where you get a week or two off.

[00:25:57]

But I mean, we all know what that looks like as well. It takes a couple of days to even unwind from the grind and then you enjoy your trip for 2 days. And then, you’re depressed for 2 days because you have to go back to the grind. So, the whole you’re behind and then you feel like, you’re behind. Yeah, or you’re checking your email the entire time you’re on your trip.

[00:26:20]

Yeah, and it’s got to stop. I mean, people are literally getting sick because of this because of the way They’re treating themselves. I am a perfect example of that that happened to me. I’m not saying I caused my MS. I’m not saying I deserved it. I’m not even saying that the activities I was doing caused it, but it made it worse.

[00:26:46]

That’s for sure. And it can exacerbate the simplest headache or cold or fatigue or whatever it is. Like we’re feeling run down because we’re running ourselves down.

Yeah. Absolutely. And we don’t think that taking care of ourselves is a legitimate activity, although we would take care of our kids without question, you know, that’s right.

[00:27:12]

And if a friend said that they wanted to take care of themselves, we’d encourage them to do that. Yes. But when it comes to ourselves, we think, but because I can do it, I should do it. And that is not right, or it feels selfish, right? Like, Oh, I worse.

Yeah. Yeah, of course. One of the things that you talked about that I think is so important is setting boundaries to reduce stress.

[00:27:40]

And I know that that’s another thing that sort of, a lot of times women resist because, you know, we’ve been conditioned to be helpful and have everyone like us. And it also feels selfish. Can you tell me what you advise a couple first steps of what boundaries to look at and how to do that? Sure.

[00:28:00]

Sure. I mean, if you’re Pleasing others by disappointing yourself.

[00:28:06]

It is time to take a good look at boundaries because I think that we do. We just give and give and give, give our all, give our best. And once you give that, there’s nothing left for you. And there’s nothing left when you want to say yes, because you’ve just been saying yes out of almost on autopilot.

[00:28:31]

And I think like putting boundaries around your time, your space, your peace is critical to connecting with the gentle you and really understanding what you want for your life. So, whether it’s saying no without a big explanation I think that’s a great boundary that you are setting for someone else, but also for yourself, you know, the boundary is I won’t be giving a big.

 

[00:29:00]

I know that I need to protect my time here, even if I’m not doing something else. So, I think sometimes we think like, Oh, we’re not busy. So, we can do this thing, but you can say no, even if you’re not busy.

Yeah. In fact, you have to, if you want space, time, energy for what you really care about and I think it’s also okay to say, to express through your boundaries what you will and won’t tolerate in a relationship.

 

[00:29:31]

And I don’t think it has to be this aggressive, contentious conversation, but I think when you notice that something is coming up, that’s really not working for you, you can say this doesn’t work for me. If it happens again. I’m going to do this thing. I’m going to go take a walk. Or I’m going to end the conversation, or I’m going to suggest we regroup later.

[00:29:56]

And then, as long as you are willing to follow that up and honor your boundaries, honor your time and energy availability boundaries will really serve you.

 

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think any time there is a resentment, that’s a signal that a boundary is being violated or it should be put down because it’s sort of.

[00:30:20]

When you are feeling that way, it means that something is off.

Yeah. And I think that resentment also pops up when we say yes, when we wish we had said.

No, absolutely. And that’s a really important thing to recognize. And sometimes I suggest to people that they go on a yes fast that if you’re so used to saying yes to everything and people actually rely on you and frankly take advantage of you because you are so overly generous and unwilling to set a boundary around this.

[00:30:52]

For 30 days, it’s, there’s no yeses. It’s just a no completely. And you can tell people you’re taking this challenge on, and that way you don’t have to explain yourself other than to say, I’m challenging myself to say no to everything for a month and watch what happens.

[00:31:14]

They’ll figure it out. And you, in the beginning, of course, will feel uncomfortable but that’s different than guilt and I think a lot of times we say we feel guilty when we say no, but more often than not, we feel uncomfortable because we’re taking care of ourselves and we’re not used to doing that.

[00:31:33]

Yeah. It’s a muscle to be built. Correct. I love the idea of, of saying for 30 days, I’m doing this. Like, no yes challenge or saying no to everything because when you’re stopping drinking in terms of like making it really clear, I suggest saying like, tell everyone you’re doing 100 day, no alcohol challenge to increase energy or decrease anxiety or just to see if you feel better.

[00:32:01]

But by Putting out what you’re doing, it takes away the personalization from it. Right? Like, I’m not just saying no to you that I won’t volunteer for this PTA project. It’s like, oh, I’m doing this challenge where I’m not taking on anything new. I’m saying, you know, I’m not saying yes to anything. So, and by the way, you should do it too.

[00:32:23]

Sometimes it’s really cool, you know.

Yeah, and when you first stop drinking, I, that’s a perfect time for a yes fast. I mean, it’s the perfect time because that just gives you, you’re giving yourself permission to give yourself that extra care that you need during that time.

Yeah, I wouldn’t have any selfish feelings about it at all.

[00:32:47]

Yeah. And if you do reach out to me and I’ll suggest a permission slip because they what’s the permission slip. And I guess it would depend on the situation, but just permission to protect your sobriety or to protect what’s important to you. It matters. And of course you can write your own permission slips, but sometimes we need the support from other people to say, you’re doing great.

[00:33:09]

It’s okay. You can say no, and I think sometimes this can be hard because you may find people who aren’t as supportive or now that they don’t have a lot to gain from you might put some distance between you. And I just think all of that is, is yes, can be hurtful. It can also be really revealing and a little freeing.

[00:33:35]

Yeah, no, I, I have this sort of like daily weekly plan in early sobriety and on it. There is like, okay, did you take time to rest and decompress? Did you get outside for fresh air and movement? Did you say no to something? Did you eat something with protein, you know, and did you tap into sobriety support some things, but like, being, you know, sort of a people pleaser gold star girl wanting an A and wanting to cross things off the list, like having those down, you’re like, Oh, I can’t do X, Y, Z, because I haven’t gotten my fresh air and movement yet.

[00:34:14]

You know what I mean? Which kind of helps. Of course. I think so. Although I do want to, are you going to caution me against my list? No, no, no. I think it’s great to have, especially, I mean, it, it removes that decision fatigue. So, I think it’s fantastic, but what I would watch about. Being a gold star girl, because I think if I know what you’re talking about, I was too.

[00:34:37]

And I always wanted to be good at everything. And I wanted to be, you know, a good mom, a good daughter, a good friend, a good person. I just wanted to be good. And I remember, I think it was. In maybe 2018, before I stopped drinking, I was talking to my therapist about it and just being like, why isn’t this enough?

[00:35:00]

I try so hard to be good. And she just looked at right at me and said, what’s so great about being good? What is it? And I, I just laughed. I didn’t even have an answer because there was no answer. Like what? Why do I need that validation? It’s like, I’m a good person. Right. Safety and security and love or something. It’s overrated.

[00:35:21]

Yeah. Try not being so good. I think. Everyone will benefit from that.

Yeah, I remember like coming home and doing all this stuff and like banging the dishes and being all frustrated and that my family wasn’t helping me. And my husband said to me babe, if you think you’re doing this for us, you could just stop because nobody likes a martyr.

[00:35:46]

I was like, oh, damn.

Yeah, you have to ask for help. Yeah. Well, I was like, fine. I’m going up the stairs and taking a bath and I was much happier.

Yeah. Yeah. You learn, you just learn a lot. And I think you on the other side of alcohol, regardless of how much you’re drinking, I think that there is a lot of compassion for yourself that you find.

[00:36:13]

Yeah, and even if you’re only drinking once a week or twice a week or only on weekends and holidays It’s in there like it’s in your system And I have no doubt about that only because of how I felt when it was all gone.

Yeah, and I think that We get into these patterns of like being so over scheduled, having literally too much going on.

[00:36:37]

So, we’re go, go, go all day. And I know for myself, I would come home and would want to like immediately downshift. And when you drink, it hits your bloodstream and it gets in your body really fast. And when you don’t do that. You need to carve out more time because when you do it naturally without a drug, you need to meditate, you need to take breaks during the day, you need to take a walk, you know, all those things to create space for that.

[00:37:08]

Speaking of meditating, that is what I was going to mention earlier when I said I, there was something that happened in the early days that I think made everything easier for me. And bear with me because this is a little woo and I’m not very woo. So, I just have to. Either it happened or it didn’t, but it all worked out.

[00:37:29]

But about that 30 or 40 day mark, I learned how to do transcendental meditation and I give that some benefit to me never having a craving for it again. And I don’t know why but I’ve continued that practice every day since. And I feel like it’s made a difference. Whatever it was, I’m 30 or 40 days after you stopped drinking or when you first started slowing down.

[00:38:00]

Okay. So, what is transcendental meditation? So, transcendental meditation is a form of meditation that you have to be trained on like one-on-one. And essentially, you practice for 20 minutes, twice a day. And I practiced meditation long before this, I did everything from guided meditations on headspace, which I highly recommend to kind of more mindfulness practices, everything I dabbled in all of it and it was all lovely, but I could never really stick with anything.

 

[00:38:37]

I kept looking for a new thing and this was so easy and brought me to a place. During the meditation that felt so good and continues to that. I don’t want to stop doing it. And it’s, they kind of describe it. And I feel this a lot is that like, if you are in the ocean at the top of the ocean, it’s really wavy and, you know, kind of like life ups and downs and a lot of turbulence.

[00:39:08]

And when you meditate, you drop under. Into the stillness, and that’s exactly what I feel. I can’t compare it to any other meditation that I’ve done. But again, I know how who this must sound. So I want to be excited to look into it. I mean, the meditation that I’ve done and I have to say, I’m not very consistent with it, but I go to sort of insight timer or I have some like breathwork meditations and just do those or box breathing when I’m really feeling it.

[00:39:40]

And I, you know, a lot of anxiety in my chest or, you know, last night I was like, all right, I need a, I need an insight time or sleep meditation to turn off my brain. But I want to look into the transcendental just to, just to check out what that is. I highly recommend it. One question I had is in the book, Gentle. You emphasize the importance of living with intention and authenticity and choices that align with your values and vision where in this process do you need to sort of figure that out?

[00:40:11]

I do a lot of core values work, but I know that most people Listening to this may not have done any work. Like do you do that living in with intention work? Before you start this process or do you start with simplifying and self-compassion and rest?

[00:40:33]

You start with rest, there’s no doubt about it. And I didn’t want to start with rest at all because I too have resisted rest in my life. I almost like didn’t even make it the first section of the book and I thought it was so funny. I’m like, what are you doing? You won’t even put it first in the book.

 

[00:40:52]

But I think rest is where we start and the process through which. The book will guide you, brings you back to the gentle you, and it is in that place that you can really tap into more intentional living, more living your values, more understanding what your values are. I mean, otherwise, before rest, before making space for yourself, there’s no room.

 

[00:41:24]

I mean, how, how do you have time to do the busyness of life? And be intentional about it. You have to rely on some kind of autopilot situation just to get through. But if you can rest, create space through living with less, then there’s space to rise. Then there is space to really understand who you are and what you stand for and what you want to do about it.

[00:41:54]

Yeah, that’s awesome. And in your book, you sort of go through each part of steps you can take to rest. And I thought they were really practical. I’m I love practical and next steps. And so, breaking up with breaking news. That was something I had to do in early sobriety. I just had all these breaking news on my phone.

[00:42:18]

I used to wake up and watch the news and listen to the news and it would just spike my anxiety and get me all riled up and I actually made a list of like things that made me happy. And things that I didn’t enjoy that I did every day and watching the news did not make me happy. And so, I cut that out early and, you know, going for walks and talking with my best friend were on the happy list and, you know, some other things.

[00:42:46]

So, I started trying to make those small shifts, which were really helpful. Like sitting at my desk and eating while I was doing work did not make me happy. Rushing to daycare and almost not making it did not make me happy. And so, just trying to carve out some of those things that stressed me out.

[00:43:06]

Yeah, it’s so smart. And that in itself is living with intention. Like, you’re saying to yourself, this upsets me. I’m going to do it differently.

Yeah, yeah, And I think breaking news is a disaster for our nervous systems. Like it’s not reliable and it’s just frightening and agitating. When we could get the whole like picture a day later.

[00:43:30]

Yeah. I get a lot of pushback on this, probably more than not drinking.

Oh, really?

Yeah, because people say you have to be informed and I agree to a certain extent, like I’m informed, but I don’t have to be informed with a ding on my phone every 5 minutes. I don’t have to be informed with video footage of.

[00:43:54]

There are a lot of other ways, more intentional ways to be informed and to make a difference in the world. And me watching the news night after night or day after day or responding to notifications on my phone isn’t making a difference in the world.

Yeah, I, I tend to read my news. In a sort of, from sources that, that really digest it and keep it calm and are not alarmist even when stuff’s going on in the world.

[00:44:23]

I sort of, you know, you have to protect your own energy and your own mental health. And I have to say, I’m a huge fan of wait, wait, don’t tell me on Saturdays. On NPR, it just takes the news, but it’s, it’s sort of a, yeah. Funny sort of game show where you’re answering questions for some reason. It makes me laugh a lot.

[00:44:43]

Oh, I have to check that out.

Oh my god, it’s amazing! Yeah, it’s my favorite And in your part less you have a lot of different sections. But just anyone listening to this, the drink less is a chapter within Courtney’s book and that’s really great to see because you do not usually See that in a lot of books But I think it will appeal quite a bit to the women listening to this podcast I I’m glad for that.

[00:45:16]

I know not everything that I recommend in this book is going to appeal to everyone, but I think there is something in there that will be helpful. So, maybe you’ve already stopped drinking or you’re not interested in not drinking. And then that chapter is not for you today. Maybe it’s for you in a year.

[00:45:37]

I don’t know. So yeah, it’s all been part of my journey. So I thought it was important to share. And as part of rise, you talk about savoring simple pleasures. Can you tell me more about that?

Sure. So, simple pleasures are something that. I think we deserve to enjoy every day and sort of like rest, not something that we bribe ourselves with or that we save until we accomplish everything on our to do list but that we take it for ourselves.

[00:46:08]

It’s a, it’s a very tangible form of joy. So I think when we tell each other, you know. Let’s have more joy in our lives. We don’t really know what that means. If you engage in simple pleasures, you will understand joy. And often simple pleasures are things we already do. Your morning coffee or tea and a walk with a friend, a walk by yourself.

 

[00:46:32]

Anything that really gives you this little boost is what I would consider a simple pleasure. And so it’s kind of like romanticizing the ordinary things in your life and it makes a big difference in your outlook and how you look forward to things and how you celebrate things. Because I think for a lot of us, we’re used to only celebrating the big things and sometimes they take years to get to.

[00:47:02]

Why can’t we celebrate the tiny steps and the little things and how, you know, I took 15 minutes to enjoy my coffee while I was talking to my daughter on the phone or what, before you get everything done, you don’t have to earn it. You’re an adult. You get to take it, take your simple pleasures.

Yeah, I was telling you before that I not every day, but today I basically got up to do this interview, and I was in bed with my coffee reading a novel, and it is a Wednesday, and I felt a little bit of guilt about it, but then I let that go because I hate it.

[00:47:39]

I hate the term guilty pleasure because I’m like, why can’t it just be pleasure? Why do we have to feel guilty about the things that we enjoy? And one of the things we do when we stop drinking or that I recommend is this idea of sober treats. Because for so many of us, alcohol is the reward at the end of the day or at the end of the week or on vacation.

 

[00:48:04]

And so, in terms of rewiring your brain around what a reward looks like and that reward structure, like planning out treats every day and appreciating them is really helpful. Like coffee in the morning, in a quiet home before everyone wakes up without a hangover. That’s a sober treat, like getting a massage.

 

[00:48:28]

Instead of getting drunk at happy hour, that is a sober treat or, you know, sleeping through the night. I’m just taking a moment to appreciate that stuff. Yeah, that’s what makes the difference is that you do appreciate it and notice it and. Celebrate it. Yeah. And you will be happier. I mean, you just will.

[00:48:50]

The more that you look around your life and see, see the good. I also loved in your book that you referenced Gilmore Girls a few times cause I’ve watched the entire season, like, or the entire show, all the seasons twice. And so, I was like, yep, I resonate with that.

Yes. Gilmore Girls is a favorite for sure.

[00:49:13]

Yeah, I’m watching it now with my 10 year old daughter, and that’s all. I love that. He thinks the references are little dated, but I’m like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Not a lot of shows aged well from that time period, but there’s still a definite sentimental connection for me.

Yeah. No, I love it.

So, anyone who is listening to this, who is feeling stressed out and overwhelmed and just trying to keep up with their daily lives and wants more peace and space and joy in their life, anything that you would recommend where they start or what we haven’t talked about yet?

[00:49:57]

Well, I think we have actually talked about it. And I think the answer really is, I mean, not to sound like a broken record, but imagine if instead of like scrambling to your next appointment, you canceled that appointment and took 10 minutes to curl up on the couch or lay down in bed or do something else that feels really restful to you.

[00:50:20]

And I know that can look different for everyone, but if you start with rest, and let that be a practice, then you’ll be resting more and more and more and you will start to develop more capacity. Not necessarily more tolerance for what you’ve been putting up with in terms of the rush of your life, but you’ll have a better.

 

[00:50:45]

A better outlook on it and understanding of what needs to change. But before that, you, you can’t expect to keep pouring from this empty cup, as they say. Yeah.

[00:51:00]

Yeah. So where can people find you and follow up and learn about the work you do?

Well, they can definitely learn more about me in the book gentle, which is available everywhere.

[00:51:11]

And they can visit my website, bemorewithless.com. And probably the best place on socials is Instagram @bemorewithless.

Very cool.

And for the book, Gentle, again, if you’re thinking about picking it up, you should. What I love about it is that. It takes you step by step through different areas of your life with tiny steps and with permission slips.

[00:51:40]

And I think a lot of us need that and want to think about how to feel better and how to slow down, but aren’t even sure where to start.