SUMMARY KEYWORDS

drinking, moderate, moderation, moderating, quit drinking, quitting drinking drunk-ish, blackouts, breakthrough, people pleaser, blackout drunk, drinking behavior, drink, alcohol, stop drinking, sober, motherhood, happier, relationship with husband, less anxiety, less angry, wine, sobriety, take a break from drinking, alcohol-free, without alcohol, support, relationship with alcohol, stopped drinking, boring, fear, Groundhog Day, high-achieving women, Sobriety Starter Kit, The Hello Someday podcasts

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson 

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a bus, how to sit with your emotions, when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

 

Hi there.

Today, I am jumping on the other side of the microphone and sharing an interview I did on the Drunk-ish Podcast with Stephanie Wilder Taylor, comedian, author of Sippy Cups Are Not for Chardonnay, Nap time is the new happy hour and She is one of the original mom writers who made me feel seen both in the early days of parenting and wine o’clock.

If you’ve ever wanted to hear my full origin story, like how I went from straight A people pleasing diplomats kid to going on keg runs with my rugby team in college and up in a stranger’s bed in Suburban Australia, all the way to how I finally quit drinking and why I went back after a year sober. Then, what it took to make me stop for good. This is the episode for you.

In this conversation, we talk about all the ways motherhood pushed my drinking into overdrive, the ridiculous ways.

I tried to prove that I didn’t really have a problem. The moment I realized that my nightly wine habit wasn’t so fun anymore and how I finally found freedom from the Groundhog Day cycle of drinking, regretting it, and swearing that I’d be good tomorrow. It’s messy and honest and hilarious at times and super real.

 

I even talk about the time I used to nap in my dorm hallway, so my friends wouldn’t leave me behind for the party that night.

If you’ve ever tried to moderate or told yourself that you’re not that bad or wondered if it’s really time to take a break from drinking, put in your earbuds, grab your coffee, or take me on a walk.

 

I think you’re going to love this one.

Hi, everybody. Welcome to my podcast, Drunk-ish. My name is Stephanie Wilder Taylor, and last year, I published a book called, Drunk-Ish, where I told my story about quitting drinking. But now I have a podcast where I can talk to other people about quitting drinking. So, whether you’re sober curious, or you just like hearing stories about why no’s and addicts, you are welcome here.

 

I had the pleasure of having on Sober Coach and the host of the Hello Someday podcast, Casey McGuire Davidson. I’m really excited because Casey’s story is one that so many of us recognize. She talks about motherhood as a trigger, what it took to finally stop drinking for good, and how she went from wine soaked evenings to coaching other high-achieving women who feel stuck in the same loop.

So, without further ado, let’s get to Casey.

[00:04:00]

Oh, I’m so excited to be here. I told you that I was a huge fan girl of you when you came on mine from like way back in the day. And your sobriety story and the work you’ve done actually was hugely influential on me many years, like 7 years before the last time I quit drinking.

So, for a long time I was going to say that I, what I remember from when I talked to you when you interviewed me is that you kind of took in all of my stuff that my original writing, which was Sippy Cups or Not For Chardonnay, and the celebrating the drinking was your companion.

Then, and I want to hear the story, but then you said, when I quit drinking, you were like, huh. Yeah. But did not quit drinking yourself for a while.

No, but I’ll tell you ’cause it’s a crazy story. The whole story when we get there, but yeah. Yeah. Do you want to hear it now?

Tell, start at the beginning. Tell me about, a little bit about everything. Your upbringing, what, like how your drinking started.

Yeah, absolutely. It was sort of interesting because I was a very good girl. I was like, you know, people pleaser, straight A’s. Really wanted my parents’ approval the whole time growing up and that was because my parents weirdly were diplomats. So, they worked for the State Department. They were with the US embassies Overseas, both of them. And I grew up moving every 2 or 3 years to like different countries, but also different continents. So, we moved, you know, when I was 3 years old to Mozambique in South Southern Africa and then to Paraguay when I was 6 in South America and then Zambia.

I mean, it was crazy. And all that is to say that my parents were very busy. They thought their work was incredibly important, which, you know, it was, but their priority was definitely not on the 2 little girls. And we had a lot of housekeepers and I was always the new girl at school, so I was just working really hard to hustle, to fit in and make friends wherever I went.

And when I was 14, I went to boarding school and my sister and I didn’t get along that well. ’cause you know, we were really close in age. We were a year apart. And that’s really hard when you’re either besties or you’re not. And we were not. So, she went to boarding school in a different state than I was.

And my dad happened to be in Africa and my mom was in Brazil. So, different states, different continents, you name it. That is way too long of an intro to say. I didn’t drink at all in high school unless, like you count 3 times, I went offsite with my friends. So, at my boarding school, you would’ve been suspended the first time you drank, expelled the second. The government was paying for my boarding school. I got like tuition, books, and 3 trips home a year. And I was like the straightest and narrowest girl you could imagine. But I also had all this anxiety, right? Like, I felt like I had to be hypervigilant about everything. That was really important to me, that people liked me.

So that, like on long weekends, when everybody went home and I didn’t have a home to go to, I needed someone’s friend to like me and to bring me home and their parents to think I was awesome. So, to say I was uptight was like, you know, a lot. That’s very true. And then, I went to college and it was like really the first time I could drink without worrying about getting suspended.

And I loved it. And I started playing women’s rugby because I played field hockey and lacrosse in high school, but they were working way too hard in college. And on the women’s rugby team, like we partied with the men’s team. There were huge keg parties after every game where you would like party with the opposing team.

And the goal was to get blackout drunk. Like, the goal was to throw up and keep drinking. There were all these songs about it and it was a crash course in really problematic drinking behavior that was totally celebrated. And I thought it was awesome, like the coolest thing ever, because the minute I started drinking, I didn’t worry about people liking me because I thought everyone was my best friend.

 

And I didn’t worry about whether, you know, I should be talking to the boys or not. Like, I could shut off my brain. And so, I spent, you know, this split personality where I still got straight A’s. I still really cared about what my parents thought, and then I would just binge drink and black out.

And that was my college experience. And it was really fun for a while. The whole time, the whole 4 years. Oh God. Yeah. I, not only like, I played rugby in the fall and the spring, but I was the captain of rugby my entire senior year, and we did the whole, like, you have a rookie and they need to bring you drinks at every party throughout the year.

Like, IPE stands and funnels and like, I was a huge advocate for it. Which you know, looking back, I wonder how many people on that team ended up with drinking problems because it was crazy. I did. You get hangovers? I was always, oh God, yes. Yes. All the time. I mean, I would like, dry heave bile for hours thinking it was fun.

I can’t tell you how many times I blacked out. Because it was always very fuzzy. Right? People would remind me of things that happened. Brutally hung up like I used to. And you know what’s crazy is, I swear to God, I was a really good girl even with all this going on, but to the point where we would do keg runs in college where they put a keg in the back of a truck and we ran behind it, like an activity, and then we would stop a drink and go running again.

But I would come home from those keg runs and not want people to leave me at home and not take me to the party that night. So, I would nap in the hallway in my dorm, so that they would have to like step over me to leave for the party, to take me with them. Like, I was worried if I went to bed in my room, they wouldn’t wake me up.

So, you know, #witted, #fomo. Yes. It was very dysfunctional, I think. Isn’t it interesting that I didn’t realize until after I quit drinking? Don’t ask. Don’t ask me how, I didn’t realize this. I’m an intelligent person who knew a lot about trying to quit drinking. I didn’t realize that having blackouts isn’t normal until into my sobriety.

 

I learned that and I was like, well, but hold on a minute, because everybody gets blackout drunk, right? Like, and I found out that no, lots of people actually don’t.

Yeah, no, I actually, I read the book Blackout by Sarah Hela when I was in early sobriety, and I had no idea about blackouts and what it meant and what it was. And I think, even when I was blacking out, I wasn’t really aware of that was what I was doing. I mean, people would tell me about conversations and things we did, but it was all very mixed up and like. Did I remember that? Or was it just a story or was I grayed out? You know, like I was totally oblivious.

 

And then, looking back, it’s incredible to me how much of my life I missed because I just didn’t remember it. I remember one time going out, partying with my friends. I would’ve been very early twenties and in the morning, waking up in the morning and being very scared because I was like, I’m going to look out the window.

I don’t remember what I did last night. And I don’t know if my car will be in its parking space and if my car’s not in its parking space, I’m pretty screwed. ’cause I didn’t even have flashes. Like I remembered the very beginning of the evening and then I woke up the next day and it’s, it didn’t occur to me that’s because I’m an alcoholic.

It was more like, yeah. Oh, I got to be more careful with remembering where my car is. Yeah. Well, in some of the times you think it’s fun or you think it, like, one of the reasons I love drinking was literally that anything could happen and I would drink to get to the point that anything could happen, meaning like that was the goal.

So I like, so for example, I was in Sydney, Australia. I went for a semester abroad in Australia, and me and my two girlfriends went out to a bar in Australia and I was like 20. I was a junior in college apparently that night. Who knew I was in a blackout. I remember sort of kissing this bot guy near the bathroom.

I woke up the next morning in his bed in an entirely different suburb of Australia and my girlfriend and I were in a hostel together. I didn’t tell them I left, we didn’t have cell phones. I had no idea where I was or how I was going to get home. Like, there was no Uber. And I just was like, holy shit, I didn’t know the guy’s name.

Luckily, okay, I’m going to say this, and this is, this kept me out of a lot of trouble. I don’t know if I’m supposed to share this. I happen to not have sex with my high school boyfriend because I wasn’t that into him. And then, I wanted it to be special, right? Like I was like, I’m not just going to screw some guy who, whatever.

So, I didn’t have sex till my senior year in college because like, I was just hooking up with random that saved me so much. So I would like, go hook up with this guy, But even in a total box, I’d be like, I am not having sex with you. And so, by doing that, I think I saved myself so much hurt and dangerous situations because I apparently was very vehement about this with whoever I hooked up with.

I’m like, yeah, whatever, but I’m not having sex with you. So, that didn’t happen when I woke up, but I had no idea where I was, how I was going to find my friends, what they thought had they been searching for me. I mean, this shit’s dangerous. Oh yeah. I’m very shocked. I didn’t lose my virginity until after high school, so I moved to L.A.

I was 19 when I lost my virginity and I knew what I was doing, but I’m very surprised at the situations I was in high school that something worse didn’t happen to me.

Yeah. I was drunk, Okay, so you’re drinking like that, you’re in your 20s, you’re at a college. Then what happens?

Yeah, so my first job out of college was a [00:15:00] management consulting firm down in Washington, DC and I actually met my husband there. They hired 30 kids out of college every year. And I. So what that meant was there were 75 of us under the age of 25.

Like we couldn’t even get rental cars, but they were flying us all over the country to present at American Express or whatever company it was. So, I was very worried about doing a good job. I was very worried about getting fired. You know, the, basically my high school replicated itself in my early 20s.

I had randomly like written on my resume, you know how you have nothing on your resume graduating from college to get a real job. So, I’d put on there that I spoke German. Now I had taken German in high school for 4 years and my first year of college I did not speak German, but I needed something.

Apparently, they hired me ’cause they thought I spoke German and my first job for them was getting on the phone, calling Germany at the middle of the night to find out like manufacturing times for air purification respirators. I shit you not, I have no idea how this happened. Oh no. So, if you can imagine the panic attacks, an imposter syndrome that like shot off the charts for me.

So, I just started this thing of like, I drink wine at night in my shitty basement apartment where I don’t know how to cook because I went to boarding school, college, I literally didn’t know how to cook anything. So, I would open a bottle of red wine and eat Lucky Charms or Chef Boyardee for dinner and I’d be like, this is what adults do.

This is very sophisticated and I have scared shitless and lonely. So, I will simply get drunk in my living room with my Lucky charms every night. And that’s what I did. I mean, I met my husband, we were dating, we were hooking up. So we, we went to a lot of bars with 20 somethings. We went on skiing trips, we went whitewater rafting.

So, I kind of drank every night even then. And did he, I just kind of buried, I drank, he did, too. Maybe, I mean, you know, I was drinking so much who could tell? Right? He was always kind of a normal drinker and he also always had to be kind of in-charge of me. Like, there was no question if we were going anywhere, who was going to be driving home.

Just, I relate to this so much. Right? Yeah. When I quit drinking is when I noticed that my husband didn’t drink that much. I was under the impression that we both kind of drank the same, but same exact thing. My husband would have to be the sober one. Even if I said, I was like, I’m going to be the designated driver.

I never was. No, there was no question. He always kind of just had to make sure I got home. Okay. So, but that was our roles. Right? And it was really fun for me, and he’s a great guy and we had fun together. But he was just always sort of taking care of me as I, and I was a really like. Smiley, happy, nice drunk girl.

You know what I mean? Like, I wasn’t a mean drunk. I didn’t do anything that terrible. I sort of like sometimes slumped in the corner, smiling kind of my emo if I got really tipsy. So, yeah we went out to cocktail bars, we did all that good stuff. He wanted to leave DC so I went with him. We ended up moving to Seattle where my best friend from boarding school lived and we rented a floating home.

They lived on a floating home a mile away from us. So, my mid-twenties was awesome. We lived on floating homes in the middle of the lake in Seattle. We kayaked with beers, we went camping, we had dinner parties with all the wine. You know, it was lots of like, have you heard the term dink, like dual income?

No kids? No. I haven’t heard that before, but it sounds so fun. It was a good one. Yeah. It was the good life. We took lots of trips. Again, I just like, I drank every night and it was fun. And then, I got pregnant and had my son and this is when I found you. So, when I was, sort of, the last person in my friend group to have kids.

I was 32. Mike and I finally decided to have kids, not because we wanted a baby, but because we knew we wanted a family and all of our friends were having kids. So, we were like, oh, we might as well, like, we’re having to hang out with all these kids anyway. But so, I had my kid and you know, my mother to the point was like, Hey Casey, you know that, you know you can drink red wine when you’re breastfeeding ’cause it lets the milk down.

Like, she thought that was the reason that I wasn’t getting pregnant. So, just to say like, there was something there that people were noticing. Interesting. Oh, with your food, which by the way, it’s not true. Anyone listening, do not drink red wine when you’re breastfeeding for any benefit. It’s dark fear.

Come on, people. When you were, when you got pregnant though, did you have any thoughts of like, oh, I won’t be able to drink when I’m pregnant? Because for me, it was long enough ago that my doctor was like, yeah, you can have 2 drinks a week. And I was like, great, we’re good.

Yeah. It wasn’t. I don’t know if I was worried about that, but in my third trimester, I definitely, my friends were like, oh, a small glass once a week is fine.

And I was kind of offended in my 3rd trimester if people would just skip over me for drinking without anything, I was like, excuse me. That was like freaking huge. But I did keep, I didn’t drink until my third trimester and then I had like one a week, which again, none of this information is good or true.

If you’re listening to it now, do not drink. It’s not safe or good for you in any way.

Yeah, but it’s amazing also that we could even keep it to that because, but there is something that happens to a lot of women. Listen, I’m not saying all women. Some women I’m sure crave it and that’s their first sign.

But I think for a lot of women it’s, it takes away the craving a little bit. There’s something about pregnancy hormones that I didn’t feel personally, I didn’t feel like I was white knuckling it at all. Me, neither. And I think it was just like, I was so ex, you know, I mean, being pregnant as opposed to having a newborn, being pregnant is like being engaged.

You know? Like everybody’s so excited for you. Like every, you’re just working on your, at least for me, you’re like working on the baby’s room. You’re choosing names, you’re choosing colors, like you’re getting the cute little pregnancy outfits, especially if it’s your first time, right? You don’t have like a toddler around you.

So, I did not really crave drinking, but it was also because I had a really other, you know, exciting thing to keep my mind off it. So then, the baby comes. Yes. And so, the baby came and God, having a baby is hard. It’s like humbling. I felt like it was kind of thankless. I mean, I loved my son.

[00:22:00]

And whereas before, I was this independent, fully functioning human being who, you know, my husband worked and I worked and we had a ton of friends, but like, I didn’t have to ask him for permission or for a favor to do anything. We were very independent. Suddenly, my entire life was like. Get up, go to work, rush through work, leave to get the kid to daycare, come home, and then all the things of having a baby that are so freaking hard and humbling.

Like, you know, I found that having a young baby, like he screamed all the time and just I was exhausted and I couldn’t, you know, you do everything you can to make them happy and then they’re unhappy and you can’t communicate with them. So like, I remember when Hank was born. My mother-in-law was there and she was making a grocery list, which was fantastic, right?

[00:23:00]

So, I put on the grocery list earplugs, and she came home and I was pulling everything out and I was like, where are the earplugs? And she was like, I thought you were joking. I was like, who the fuck jokes would they have a two week old? Like, there is no joke. I was like, he is screaming on my shoulder. I need the fucking earplugs to like, shut it up, you know?

Did he have colic or was he just a crier? No, this was just me apparently being unable to handle like regular baby stuff. But also, like, everything that my husband did pissed me off. You know, his life changed maybe 20%, you know, he was a baseball coach, they were going to the state tournament, so he was a teacher and then he was a varsity high school baseball coach, so he was gone for like 5, 6 hours on Saturdays.

He got home at 7:30 at night and I was the one dealing with our son. I also weirdly like, told him that he could go on vacation when Hank was 6 weeks old with a bunch of guys to go fishing for a week. I think it was. ’cause I was trying to be the cool mom before I had a child. I have never been so like, sitting with anger in my life.

He was like in the hot tub with his friends telling me how tired he was. I had like mastitis breasts were bleeding. Like, anyway, so I found your books.  That’s all there is to say. So, I found the books you wrote about like sippy cups are not for chardonnay and nap time is the new happy hour. And I loved them.

Loved them. I thought they were hysterical. I gave them to all my girlfriends. I like channeled the whole thing. And I remember going to our first, like we did in Seattle, there’s this like groups for parents of young babies. It’s called pep, so parent early support group or something. And there’s a leader.

And then, you meet once a week in the evenings with like 8 other couples who also have a 12 week old.

[00:25:00]

And so, we went to the first one. And the woman who was there like literally had apple juice and goldfish as like the snacks for the event. And it was for an hour at 7:00 PM and apparently I was not happy about this ’cause I was like, shoot me, now I’m meeting new people.

I got my baby. So, they needed a host for the next one and there were going to be like 12 of ’em. So, I was like, I volunteered to host and I did not volunteer for stuff, but I did it specifically because I was like, I need to show these people what these events are meant to be like. Hell yeah. So, I invited them all over to my house.

I had the beer, I had all the wine line, like all the snacks. And so, it was really important to me that like we were going to drink while we sat around and talked about our 12 week olds. I mean, looking back, that was so messed up. My priorities were so messed up and the fact that I thought that it would be a nightmare to sit around with other newborn parents for an hour not drinking at 7:00 PM on a weeknight is such a demonstration of like how important alcohol was to me and how hard I was trying to keep it in my life, except that I at, you know, going on 16 years of sobriety, feel for you because it still sounds like, because you’re, because being a mom is new to you and alcohol is sort of your connection to your old self and to like being fun party Casey and not like serious mommy Casey and I forgive all of us moms. You know, it’s one thing we find, you know, I think there are a lot of moms who can enjoy some glasses of wine and it doesn’t indicate a deeper issue.

Maybe for us, we feel guilty about how deep that need was for the alcohol. I don’t think we should be like, you know, being hard on ourselves for the fact that like it’s, we’re allowed to still be a bit of our old selves and we’re allowed to have edgy thoughts and a sense of humor and, you know what I mean?

I think it was like a rebellion against adulting. Yes. Like it was sort of a fuck you to be like just having to adult. Right. Like suddenly before I had kids, yes, I worked hard and I had a mortgage, but I also went camping with my friends and had brunch out and went kayaking and like did Pilates and guitar lessons and all these things.

And once I had my kid, there was no time for that. I already felt guilty for working and so you could open a bottle of wine and do Legos or play candy land or you know, all those things. It was like. Fuck you to being an adult. It was multitasking. It made laundry more fun. I mean, you name it, it was like something you could do and it’s just all of my more healthy coping mechanisms kind of fell away and that was one that I could hold onto.

So, I did. And yeah, so I pretty much like my drinking. You know, some people are like, oh my God, my drinking took off after I had kids. Like my drinking was already there. You know what I mean? Like, it wasn’t like I was moderating very well, but it definitely cut out a lot of other things that I was doing in my life to keep me balanced and healthy.

 

So, when, at what point did you start thinking like, let me try to control this a little bit as we all do? Yeah. What point were you like, this May, maybe I’m drinking too much.

Yeah. Well, I think I’ve been worried about my drinking kind. I mean to, you know, I told you about in my 20s when I was really nervous at this consulting firm.

I would like drink before going to American Express for a meeting, like the night before, not the morning.

[00:29:00]

Obviously, I didn’t have a serious, I’m kidding, serious problem. But, I would set all my alarms. Alarm and then sometimes, I would like wake up and just be puking a pile for hours. Now, clearly not a normal thing that people do, but in my mind I was just like, oh, this is just what happens.

And I remember telling my mom about it once and she was like, Casey, I think you need to evaluate your relationship with alcohol. And it became like my punchline to every joke. I was like, like I thought it was funny. I obviously didn’t tell my mom those stories anymore ’cause she was so judgy. Exactly.

 

See, if I tell you about all the fun I had. Yeah. Thanks for nothing. No. But so, I just like, I often was like, why did I do that? Or I won’t drink till the weekend or only drink 2 drinks a night. And just was in that cycle of like telling myself I wouldn’t do it after a bad hangover. Making all these rules then saying, screw it, then doing it again.

I mean, on a, I would say, weekly basis, but the cycle usually happened, you know, twice a week, if not more. So, I was already worried. I would do things like try to lose weight after having Hank and you know, back in the day, you went on Weight Watchers, or at least I did, this was 16 years ago, and you would write down all your food and I would go to my trainer and it would be like, egg white omelet for breakfast, salad for lunch, salmon, asparagus for dinner. And then, I would. I was so clueless. I would write down 6 glasses of wine and I’d be like, dude, I’m within my point title. Like, you know, total. Like, why am I not losing weight? And the trader was like, what the actual, but I was like, dumb enough that I wasn’t embarrassed by writing that down.

Oh. Like, I didn’t think I had a problem. I was just like, this is what I consumed, therefore, you know. Right. You’re being a good girl telling the truth. Yeah. Like this is, I was like, why is this math out not working?

[00:31:00]

But when I was, about, when Hank was 6 months old, I read a book called Drinking a Love Story by Carolyn Knapp.

And I know you know that one. Right? Of course. I just recommended to someone this morning. It is original. It is deep. And like, I feel like from her first paragraph of the first chapter. It like had a hold on me because it hit way too close to home. It was like I fell in love with drinking and because what I loved, you know, was taking me to this place, I had to give it up and I was clearly, I knew something was going on because what I did was I read it on the Kindle and then every time I’d finish reading it, I would like open up six other books.

So it would be pushed down in my Kindle queue in case like my husband picked up the Kindle. And so, I was reading, I mean it, there was paranoia there that was like, oh no, this is an issue.

[00:32:00]

So, I read her book while drinking red wine, and if you look at the books cup, it has a glass of red wine and a woman on the cover.

And then, I wrote myself like a letter in a Word document. I swear I have to see if I still have these somewhere. That was like, oh shit, I have a problem with alcohol. I need to stop drinking. This is serious. And I wrote it on a Tuesday. And then, what’s hysterical is on Thursday I came back and wrote above that in the word doc. Just kidding. Jk. Jk. Jk to myself. Like, that was so ridiculous.

And then, after I’d gifted your books to everyone and was like, you have read to every baby shower. I’d give like nap time is the new happier. And of course, have champagne because, you know, just ’cause the mom to be couldn’t drink didn’t mean the rest of us needed to not, I was down at work.

I think my son was like a year old, maybe 15 months old.

[00:33:00]

And I was getting coffee in the morning and I saw the story in the New York Times on the newsstand about you, and it said the heroine of cocktail moms sobers up. And I just was like, holy shit. Like, I picked it up while waiting in line. I scanned the article and it hit me hard because I loved your books and I was very worried about my drinking. Like, you know, like I said, this was like a year after I’d written those documents to myself and I bought the article. I saved it, then I went online, got it online and I apparently, I was really into word docs ’cause I like copied all the copy from the article.

I put it into my word doc and then I saved it in a folder that said like something totally random, like it was it’s Christmas list. Anyone listening think I’m insane and I apologize. But I swear to God, like this is just, I fully get it. I do my Christmas lists for, and then I call it taxes. So no one will possibly want to go in there.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson 

Hi there. If you’re listening to this episode, and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit®.

 

The Sobriety Starter Kit® is an online self study sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step by step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one on one coaching. And the sobriety starter kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it. And when it fits into your schedule. You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time.

This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step by step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking, from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better. You’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach, you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course. 

 

[00:34:00]

Similar. But yours was for a good reason, right?

Yeah, mine’s not. So, I did that and that’s when Hank was like 15 months old and the first time I tried to stop drinking, he was 5. So, do the math on how many years it was before my first actual attempt to stop drinking ’cause I was worried about it as opposed to like, do I need to cut back?

 

Do I ever, I used to walk into work when he was like four, you know, hungover of course. Going to Starbucks before I went into the office to get like a breakfast sandwich and a giant latte feeling shaky and would like berate myself when I was walking into the Starbucks, being like, okay, do I abuse alcohol or am I an alcoholic? ’cause if I just abuse alcohol, that means I can like just get a stop abusing it and then it’ll be cool. You know what I mean? How badly. I want it to just be a problem drinker. I aspired to be a problem drinker. I was like me, too.

[00:35:00]

Cannot be alcoholism. ’cause that is so final. I need to like. I need to keep experimenting and figure out how I can just be a problem, just abuse it and that I could just abuse it less and that would be cool.

And I didn’t know anyone who was sober. I didn’t know anyone who used to drink like I did, who also stopped drinking and said that life was better without it. I had a lot of girlfriends who drank like I did. And we were all like, I mean doctors and lawyers and marketing directors and like really doing well in life.

Like, we looked really good. We partied really hard. A lot of them had little kids, so we would like have sleepovers with the kids while we were drinking and we’d be like, yeah, but our husbands are always home, or our husbands are driving us home, or we’re just blowing off steam. What’s funny is say there was like a group of 12 of us that were, we call ourselves the village.

[00:36:00]

We used to go kayak camping every year. We are all really big drinkers. Four of us are sober now, so Wow. You know, clearly there was an issue somewhere there. Actually now five of us are sober. One just quit a year ago. But 5 out of 12, you know, in 16 years. That’s a lot. That is a lot.

Yeah. So, in this time, so you don’t quit until your son is 5, but did you had another kid during that time, right?

Yes. At what? No, after. After. Oh, okay. Okay. So, so I basically spent a good 3 and a half, 4 years, really worried about my drinking. Hung over a lot. I mean, I would to my therapist and be like, I have anxiety, I have insomnia. And then, of course they ask you how much you drink. And I was like a couple drinks, a couple times a week.

I never talked about my drinking ’cause I didn’t want her to tell me to stop. So, I was then on anti-anxiety meds, taking sleeping medications and drinking a bottle of wine at night. Which by the way, like drinking plus Ambien or, and I mean super, super dangerous. But I was doing that with a toddler. And somehow justifying and rationalizing it all.

You know, I never stopped, started drinking till like five or 6:00 PM unless it was brunch on the weekend. Of course. You know, what I mean? Like, it was that kind of thing. Oh, I really, to this a hundred percent. Yeah. Everything you’re saying. Yeah. Like, you’re like nothing to see here unless I’m doing a mommy play date with other moms of toddlers.

Like, you know, I was like, oh, I never drove drunk. But I did have 2 or 3 quite a few times where I was like, am I okay? Like it was very I don’t know. It was exhausting. The whole freaking thing was exhausting. And some people started saying things to me, you know, like one of my girlfriends was like, you drink too much.

It’s not good for your kid. It’s not good for your marriage. And I was very much, she was the only one who ever said anything to me, like directly.

[00:38:00]

And was she one of your village though? She was and it did not go well. I handled it really poorly. I got extraordinarily defensive. I kind of shit, talked her to all her other friends about like, how dare she and she doesn’t know and X, Y, Z. I have since told her I’m grateful ’cause she, it always stuck in my head like I was pissed, but I never forgot it.

And years later, when I was finally ready, I remembered it. I mean, I remember it to this day. And it was one conversation, I don’t know, 13 years ago. Yeah, my sister-in-law said something to me and I was really pissed at the time. I was so mad she didn’t have kids either, so I was like, you have no idea.

Don’t get it what you’re talking about. Of course, you would never say something like that if you had kids. And she wanted kids, like, I think they were trying at the time, so I was like, oh you’ll see.

[00:39:00]

Yeah. Yeah, she did. She has 2 older kids now, and she doesn’t drink much. Yeah. I mean, she didn’t see thanks for that, but I have, yeah. But I have told her many times that I’m grateful to her too, and wrote about it in, in the bookish, but yeah, I know. I know.

So, okay, so, so you’re starting to hear comments.

Yeah, so I just, I was really scared.

What about your husband at this time? Is he, does he see any issue?

Yes and no. I’ve actually interviewed him on my podcast. I was terrified to do it. And he never really said anything. And I think, it was 2 ways. One, I think I was really good at hiding how worried I was about it and how much I was trying to moderate. So, he said to me, like, anytime I mentioned it, you got really defensive. And I kind of learned not to poke that bear.

He was also like, I’m not your dad. It’s not my job to regulate anything. And then, he was also like, you didn’t do anything that bad. And that was me too, right? Like, I would like, go to work, do all the things, cook dinner, make sure I made the coffee, set six alarms for the morning, get the kids into the bed, and then finish my bottle of wine at later on.

I might have one or two more pass out on the couch if he couldn’t wake me up and wake up at 3 in the morning, go up to bed. The next morning, he would be like, how are you feeling? Which I thought was a dick question, right? I’m like, how dare you ask me? And then I’d be super defensive, be like, what? I’m fine.

What? And like, he just thought I was really distant and irritated and that I did want to spend a lot of time around him, which is not great for marriage. But he didn’t know or see or attribute it directly to my drinking. Does that make sense?

Oh yeah. That’s my story too.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Mine and years later, I asked my husband, because my husband and I want to hear, of course yours, but was worried about me quitting drinking like that I was being too hard on myself that like labeling, labeling myself an alcoholic.

And it would took a long time for him to go, oh, I don’t have to worry about you driving like that I think was his main thing. Was being concerned that I would drive because I never seemed to know that I was drunk. Yeah. Yeah. I mean my, so the first time I’ll just quickly, the first time I quit drinking, I love that.

There are two different times, but I went to a therapist who specialized in anxiety and alcohol and I was of course worried about my drinking, but also was this anxious person. So I chose him specifically for that. And I went in there and said my boss, my husband, my kids, my life, and by the way, I drank a bottle of wine at night.

And he was like, great.

[00:42:00]

Let’s talk about your drinking. And I was like no, let’s talk about my boss, you know. But he was sober and he was in a 12 step program and he really encouraged me to try aa. And I also found, oh my God, this is another one from you. I, okay, so clearly I was stalking you. For a long time.

But you had a blog called, Don’t Get Drunk Fridays, right?

Yes. And this is, I’ll tell you why. 11 years ago, because when I quit drinking, I got like really obsessed with talking only about the fact that I’d quit drinking. And that’s all I wrote about. And people were getting annoyed and my husband was like, maybe you should just keep that to like one day a week on your blog because you know, you get like obsessive about it.

 

That’s all I wanted to talk about. That’s all I was interested in. And so he was like, maybe you should just do one day a week. So I was like, okay Friday. I’ll do that and then I’m just going to, and I’ll also let other people tell their stories. I’ve always obviously had an interest in everybody else’s, like, what happened when you thought, found out you drank too much?

Yeah. Well, so you had that and it really was a godsend because you had started this, you know, long ago. Group, I think it was originally on Yahoo, and then it went to Facebook and I started right before it went to Facebook. So, I got on the Yahoo early evening and it was called, the Booze Free Brigade.

And I joined it. And it was the first time that I had shared anything with anybody about my worries about my drinking. I, once it went to Facebook, I remember sitting there in my Director office at this startup and posted like a picture of me and my son. He was 5 and wrote, you know, I am 37 years old.

I work in tech. I,XYZ, I have this gorgeous son and I’m worried I drink too much, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I hit post, I was like shaking. And then, I went back to my regular Facebook page and like refreshed it 17 times to make sure it didn’t, you know, didn’t appear on my personal page. And then, I had to go to a meeting and I came back. There were like 28 comments from women who were just so kind and were like, my story is just like you and your son is beautiful and it’s going to be okay. And you are amazing for doing this. I was in tears. In tears. So, what did I do? I copied it all. I put it in a word doc, like, I’m not kidding, but it was amazing.

It helped me so much. So, someone in the group who lived in Seattle, who was my age was 4 months sober and was going to AA and my therapist encouraged me to go to AA and she said, she’d take me. So, I went to AA and I went for about 4 months and I met some really nice people.

[00:45:00]

I think I did myself a disservice in terms of, I went only to big book meetings and I am like anti-religious and apparently have a lot of issues with that.

And so, it wasn’t like, the right fit for me for where I was at that moment. And also, the median took a really long time with a 5-year-old and a full-time job. And my husband, like you said, was not that into it. He was like are is this like really what’s going on? I think you’re being kind of extreme, like what, you know, is AA kind of a cult? Like, he was not into this thing that I was doing. And you know what? We want to go back to drinking. Right? Like, I didn’t really want to stop, right? So, I was 4 months sober and I found out I was pregnant with my daughter, which we had been trying. And so I kind of did this slow shuffle back, like, I’m pregnant now.

I’m better. It’s all good. That was a nice experiment. And then, when I had my daughter, it was really easy for me to be like, oh, I’m happier now. I’m less stressed. My marriage is better. Not attributing any of that to the fact that I had not been drinking for a year. Right? Like, I’m less anxious, my marriage is better, I’m happier, therefore I can drink again.

Not all of this is happening because I’m not drinking, which was the truth. And so, I so, you know, couldn’t believe my husband just was like, oh, you were going to Alcoholics Anonymous, but absolutely you can have a glass of wine at dinner. Right? But he was, you know, not that on board with me going to AA.

So, you know, I was like, oh, I think I just want a glass of wine on a date night. And he was like, okay, cool. And then the next Friday I was like, what’s Friday night? I’ll bring a bottle home for us to share. In no time at all. It was a bottle for myself seven nights a week, unless I was trying to white knuckle it and everything came back pretty quickly.

[00:47:00]

The worrying about my drinking, the anxiety, the defensiveness, the waking up with hangovers hating, looking in the mirror, feeling shaky, then saying I wouldn’t drink, then drinking again. And it took me almost two years to stop again. And the whole time I was on the BFB reading, I didn’t post ’cause, you know, I felt like a total hypocrite. So, I just would read everyone else being braver than I was saying. I’m on another day one saying, okay, I need to stop saying this happened. I was like a mouse never said anything, but I was reading the whole time and I was worried. And nothing ever terrible happened.

It was just this death of a thousand cuts. And you know how they say like, recovery ruins you for drinking? Yes, it was. I had that year, so every time. I felt a panic attack and every time I felt shaky and every time I stood up at the bus stop and didn’t want people to look at me too closely, ’cause I was hung over, like I knew too much.

 

I knew it wasn’t my boss or my husband or my kids. Like I knew it was the alcohol. And so for those two years I was like, oh, this is because I drink too much. And the whole time I knew I was going to have to stop. At that point, I wasn’t like, am I going to have to stop drinking? It was like, how long can I play this out?

Like maybe I could drink for another year or so. And finally like 6 things happened in a week and it wasn’t that huge. It was like my husband told me that I’d watched the episode of Scandal the night before, and I was like, no, I didn’t. And I was a hundred percent sure that he was messing with me and that I, he doesn’t know, he doesn’t hang out. He is not around. And then, right at the end of the episode, something was familiar and I was like, oh my God, an entire hour of my life last night, I have no, like, it is wiped blank from my head.

[00:49:00]

And you know, just enough things happened that I was like, I was up at 3:00 AM as you are. I was reading this BFB Facebook group, someone way braver than me said another day one.

And I was reading all the comments and someone said, you should talk to this coach. And I don’t know why that day versus any other, but all I thought was like, I cannot do this to myself anymore. I can’t live this way anymore. I was like, I am going to fuck up my marriage and my life and my kids and it’s going to be my own fault.

And so, I went into work and that day at 10:00 AM. I went on her website and I signed up for this 100 day alcohol free challenge. And it was like you get 4 phone calls with her and she’ll email you every day for a year and you get a bunch of audios. And that was my last day one, like, that was the day I stopped drinking over 9 years ago.

 

[00:50:00]

Wow. But at the time, you know, I wanted to drink on day two and I wanted to drink on day four, and I really wanted to drink on day 16. But what worked for me was just, you know, taking it day by day and like block and tackling. Like, oh shit, it’s Friday night. What am I going to do? Or I have to go out to dinner with this couple ’cause my husband got promoted, like, am I going to freeze? When they asked me what I want to drink, how, what am I going to say to the wife? How am I going to handle this? Like, my toddler’s having a meltdown, how do I not drink over this? Like, how do I tell my husband I don’t want any wine in the house? Like, it was all this weird, practical shit that I, it sounds dumb now, but I had no idea how to or cope with or anything like that.

I remember, you know, so vividly the first time I went to watch live music and I was like, I don’t know how to be, I don’t know how to go out and do something fun and not just sit there tensely like awkwardly. Yeah. Like how am I going to enjoy music if I can’t have like a little buzz on, you know? Yeah. And like, yeah, it was, and now of course that seems ridiculous.

Like, sober concerts are the best. They are so much better than when I was drinking. And I wouldn’t remember half of it and I’d be up half the time getting more beer going to the bathroom. But like in that moment, you’re like this baby deer who can barely walk and you are just, everything’s feels very daunting and you’re so up in your head about what other people are going to think or if they think you have a problem or what does this mean?

And does my husband think I’m boring? And one night, I remember I hit 30 days. I was very proud of myself and thank God my coach and the groups like the BFB, like, were like, you are a badass. This is amazing. Like, I had all these people building me up and so I asked my husband, I was like, have you noticed anything?

And I was really worried he would think I was boring. And he said, well, our house is just much more peaceful. And I was like, huh. And he was like, you used, like, you were just very up and down. Like you were just frustrated or annoyed or like giddy a lot, you know, or like anxious, like now you just come home and it’s very peaceful and it’s very even and in retrospect, like what I thought was boring was actually peace.

I was just not used to it. And that was kind of cool. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I remember just that feeling of my husband saying like, I don’t have, I feel like I don’t have to worry if you’re out. Especially with the kids. Yeah. And I thought, oh, I didn’t realize that he was tense, like, and the whole time and worried and trying to check in.

I just thought he was like micromanaging me. But he was concerned. Yeah. And then, yeah, when he didn’t have to be concerned anymore. I mean, I don’t know what his excuse is for still micromanaging me.

[00:53:00]

Right. He’s anxious. Yeah. I mean I, when I talked to my husband on the podcast, I was really worried about what he would say and I’d never asked him like, you know, aren’t you proud of me?

Aren’t I awesome? Isn’t this cool? But I hadn’t been like, so anything you want to tell me? ’cause I just didn’t want to know. Right. And I didn’t remember a lot of stuff obviously, ’cause I happened to be a blackout drinker. So, he was much kinder to me than I would was to myself. I actually wish we’d had the conversation years earlier because I thought there was this elephant in the room that apparently there really wasn’t.

But he also said, you know, when I was talking about being boring or whatever, he was like, no offense, but it wasn’t that much fun for me when you were like passed out on the couch. I was like, really? That wasn’t like hot and sexy and awesome and intellectually stipulating, but he also was like, sometimes you were dead weight.

Like, we would go to Italy and we would go out to dinner and it would be on me to get us home safely down these, you know, canal roads. I had no idea where I was either, but you were useless and it was on me and that actually wasn’t very cool. And I was like, oh yeah, you’re right. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Wow. I remember too, you just made me think of something when I went to Italy with my husband, couple of the biggest fights we’ve ever had. I was drunk. Like drunk. I remember storming off in Florence and like I’m fuck that guy. I’m not talking to him. What? He’s a fucking asshole. And like, and I remember my husband just being like, what are you doing?

You can’t like storm off. I mean I did that in Mexico. I did that in Florence. I mean I did that on the streets of Santa Monica. Like that was kind of my MO was to get really mad. You feel so like righteously, indignant? Oh yeah. Like just so, and looking back you’re like, I was an asshole. I mean, I’ve been sober for a long time.

I mean, my husband and I get in, we rarely fight, but when we do, I mean, yeah. I’ve gotten very mad in sobriety, but it’s, I’ve never acted crazy ’cause I wasn’t drunk. Oh my God. Yeah. And you know what’s funny is I remember, I mean just in terms of your husband, like sort of being worried, vaguely worried.

I went to one of my good friend’s weddings down in Santa Barbara. This was pre-kids for me. And my husband didn’t come and my, anyway, I ended up rooming with one of my besties who also is sober now. And we were big drinkers. And the full night we’re all dressed up, we’re in high heels. It’s at this gorgeous home.

We were like, okay, we need to not fall in the pool. Like, this was us being very, we’re 30 years old. Like what the hell? So we’re wandering, you know, there was cocktail hour around the pool. We’re like, okay, cool. And then we woke up the next morning, great time, fantastic wedding in our hotels. And we literally were like, Mike and Sean would be so proud of us.

We were so good last night. We were like patting ourselves on the back like, we rock. Literally. Having this conversation with no shade, like no irony. We walk into the bru and everybody is like, whoa. How are you guys feeling? And we’re like, what are you talking about? No idea. And they were like, you don’t remember like slapping the groom’s dad on his ass twerk.

The dad was like 70-year-old German man. Like, we were like, what the fuck? Well you speak German so you, you could get. Absolutely. And apparently, I’d like popped on the back of my best friend’s husband during Mustangs. Sally had like pretended to ride him like a bull. Like, what? The actual, and I don’t remember any of this, and my friend doesn’t remember it either, but just the fact that like, yes, someone would be like, if I stopped drinking, I won’t have those wild nights anymore.

Here’s the truth. I didn’t remember any of it. Right? Like I did not, the things I thought I was missing out on were just blank spaces for me that people would tell me about. And objectively they’re pretty humiliating. Yeah. Yeah.

So, so you’re sober. When do you start doing something with it? Like, when did you start your podcast? Tell me about that.

Well, so I quit drinking and for the whole first year, I was just thrilled to be feeling so much better. I mean, I ran my first 10K in years and I was proud of myself and I looked better and I was more emotionally stable. And I went to therapy for a year to deal with anxiety and all that stuff.

[00:58:00]

The second year I was just really focused on joy. Like, I was just like, I just want to be happy. That is all I care about. So, I got kittens and I hung out with my kids and it was just so like, tender and, you know, everything was in technical and it was all about cuddles on the trampoline and like, you know, puppies and flowers or like, literally it was, and when I was drinking, I could barely handle my job and my marriage and my life, like every single thing was going to be the straw that broke the camel’s back.

And once I stopped drinking and got through like early sobriety, I had all this extra capacity. Like, everybody was like, I want to channel Casey in these meetings. You don’t get stressed. And I’m like, I don’t get stressed. But once I stopped drinking, I was just so much more emotionally even. And then, I worked in e-commerce, which is a nightmare on like Thanksgiving, black Friday, cyber Monday.

And I went to my husband one night and I was like, I don’t want to be doing this a year from now. I don’t want my boss’s job. I don’t want to do this tomorrow if I don’t have to. I just don’t care. And so, I asked him if I could go to Coaching school. I was like, you know, ’cause once you stop drinking, you get all into personal development, right?

Yeah. Oh, I’m going to, you know, I’m really into, like, suddenly you’re like, I’m reading Brene Brown and, you know, doing all this like inner work or whatever. I didn’t think I wanted to be a Sober Coach. I basically wanted to coach every 40-year-old woman I knew at work, which was like, I did all the right things and I worked my ass off, and why am I not happy?

Like those women who are just like, aren’t I supposed to be happier at this moment? But I went to coaching school on nights and weekends and for nine months and I was like, best case scenario, I’m good as a coach and this is my next career and I love it. Worst case scenario, I get a year of like cool personal development.

I meet some really interesting people and being a coach will help me be a director of VP at work and I loved it.

[01:00:00]

And so, I spent my third year going to coaching school and my fourth year of sobriety, basically coaching on the side on nights and weekends. In addition to working and having kids. It’s amazing what you can do when you’re not passed out every night.

And so, then I found I was just working with high-achieving women basically who weren’t that happy and trying to figure out what they needed to shift in their life. And the ones that approached me because they knew I had quit drinking and were basically the exact same profile, but also struggled with alcohol, were amazing because like even if they struggled with their spouse or their husband or anxiety or perfectionism or their kids, like the main issue with alcohol, if you remove the alcohol, 60% of the other stuff goes away and you get so honest about what your triggers are and what’s going on in your life that it’s really easy to solve, in my opinion.

Like, it’s not rocket science. And so I started working with more and more women who struggled with alcohol and it just became really good. It was incredibly satisfying. It was so positive. It was kind of amazing to me, like these women who were keeping everything together while drinking the way I was drinking, like, you get rid of the alcohol, it’s like they take off, right?

It’s like you’ve been running this marathon with a ball and chain tied your ankle. So, I ended up leaving my job. I got lucky. I worked for L’Oreal. They moved my entire product, division brand to New York City. So, they gave me a big buyout. I’d been there 5 years and so, I started my coaching business and then I launched my podcast and that was 5 years, 5 and a half years ago, and I’ve kind of never looked back.

It’s been awesome. Wow. Wow. Well, I would imagine that your podcast and your coaching helps so many people and you should be really proud of yourself. Thank you. I mean, the struggle is real. It is not easy to just decide. You don’t just decide like, I think I drink too much, I’m going to quit. It’s hard.

It’s hard work. It’s a lot. And you don’t even, like, it’s all these like tiny micro steps forward and backward, I think. I don’t know anyone who’s just like, oh, I’m never going to drink again. It’s this process where you just stop doing the things that make you feel like shit and start doing things that make you feel better and you eventually, I feel like I just finally stopped backtracking and doing the hardest part over and over again, you know?

Yeah. Well, if people want to get coached by you or if they want to listen to your podcast, tell us how to, tell us how to find you, how to sign up.

Yeah. Thank you. The easiest way to find me is to go to hellosomedaycoaching.com. I have a free guide there for your first 30 days. You can have it sent to your email.

I have a program called, the Sobriety Starter Kit, where I’m in the group everyday coaching. It’s like my full coaching framework, and my podcast is wherever you’re listening to this one, to Stephanie’s podcast. It’s called, the Hello Someday podcast for Sober Curious Women.

Okay, awesome. I cannot thank you enough Casey McGuire Davidson, you are awesome. You are a great guest and I want everybody to go check out all her stuff. And yeah, I’ll see you guys next week.

 

Thank you so much.