SUMMARY KEYWORDS

drinking, sober, people, alcohol, booze, important, feel, life, sobriety, thought, literally, emotions, book, good, podcast, numb, women, ditch, self-care, well-being, self-awareness, gratitude list

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Janey Lee Grace

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a bus, how to sit with your emotions, when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Welcome. My guest today is Janey Lee Grace. She’s an Amazon number one best-selling author, a UK based BBC presenter, the host of the Alcohol Free Life podcast and the founder of The Sober Club.

Janie’s a leading voice in changing the conversation around alcohol and the author of the book, Happy Healthy Sober: Ditch the booze and take control of your life. She’s also trained in NLP, EFT and recovering coaching and gave a TEDx talk sobriety rocks. So, if you’ve quit the booze or sober, curious or thinking about reducing your alcohol intake, Janie’s work will bring you tips, advice and motivation, and most importantly, celebrate self-care in recovery. And one of the many reasons that I’m very excited to talk to Cheney is she also toured the world as a backup singer, with stars, including George Michael and wham and Boy George. And growing up, my sister and I were huge. I mean, really big George Michael and wham fans, George Michaels faith was one of my very first concerts and make it big by wham was my first album I ever owned.

So, Janie, when I read that I was just totally Fan Girling – dim and distant past. Yeah, I think I’ve been thinking about it quite a bit recently, because I’ve just been asked to do a few little documentaries, I did something for ABC television, and something else in the in the UK here, just who wanted little clips of you know, because they were doing something around an anniversary with George. And it’s always quite interesting, because, you know, the producer will often ring me and say, will you contribute to this piece? And I’m always really straight up. And I always say, Well, I will, but only if you know, right up that anger, say anything negative. So, if you’re looking for dirt, you don’t come to me, you know, you’re not going to find it. So, yeah, so I’ve ended up in the on the cutting room floor a few times, because that’s probably controversial enough, but I don’t have anything negative to say, so I’m not gonna make anything up, right. Yeah, it was. It was an amazing time.

Casey McGuire Davidson  03:35

Yeah, that’s so exciting. I just like the China Tour. Right. I was watched that VHS video did to the woman, China. Well, you know that that was meant to be a full length feature film. And we went to China, it was very first western band to play China. I mean, absolutely. Bonkers when you think about it, because it was before all the changes in China. I mean, that was a long time ago. Right? And we were the very first western band to ever go there. Wham. Wham. We’re and so it was very odd. Everything about it was very odd. But we flew out like, I mean, hundreds, literally hundreds of people because they were filming a full length feature film. But then what happened was they got they saw the first few rushes and George hated his hair. I mean, as you do that’s proper Popstar behavior, right?

Yeah. So, you kind of flew his sister who’s a hairdresser to sort it out but really, they lost so much footage. Yeah. And then there are all kinds of other falling out falling outs going on with film crews. So ended up just going straight to sell through as a as a video. I think probably more people saw it up that way anyway.

Casey McGuire Davidson  04:43

So, yeah. No, that’s interesting, because I vividly remember his like highlighted. But yeah, that is not why we’re here to talk. I as I mentioned before we jump on. I’m a huge fan of your work. your books and your podcast, the alcohol free life. And I wanted to bring you on to talk about your story gray area drinking, the importance of connection and the words you use about ditching the booze versus giving up anything. Yeah, I think it’s really refreshing and important. So, to start, if folks don’t know, you heard listening to this, can you tell us a little bit about your story?

05:29

Yeah, sure. So, I have been interested and really an expert in inverted commas in optimum health and wellness, you know, holistic living.

For years and years, I wrote my first book 16 years ago, imperfectly Natural Woman, I sometimes joke that I was. So ahead of my time that I was kind of writing about coconut oil and kale before they had their own publicists. Now, everyone does, of course, but back then I was one of the few people doing this stuff in a very relatable way. So, I literally was queen of all organic food and skincare without chemicals and cleaning your home without chemicals and eco fashion.

And every single thing you could think of I was queen of holistic living, yet I was stepping around this massive elephant in the room, that was booze. And when I look back, I think my goodness, how can you have been so incongruent, you know, there was just no authenticity there. And it was just fascinating. I suppose I thought it was my treat, you know, my reward at the end of a busy day. And because it was normal, it was seen as normal.

So of course, I would care about what I put on my skin and what I ate. But when it came to the booze, or that didn’t count, because everyone did that. And that was a treat. And of course, there were this many news articles that said, it was good for me. You know, I love those news articles that said, the glass of red wine is good for your heart. I mean, we know it’s absolute BS, you know, have a grape if you want that, but, but at the time, I kind of inhaled these those news items. And Wow, fantastic, you know, and fortunately, because I was otherwise healthy, and I was having a decent number of supplements and all the rest of it. I remained well and functioning. And I’m grateful for that.

You know, I think probably that saved me to be to be honest, when you consider the years of abuse, I was putting my body through. And it took a long time for me to cottoned on to this. I mean, I had years and years and years of having moments of sanity when I would kind of think something isn’t right about this, this, this isn’t okay. This is not authentic with who you’re meant to be. doesn’t feel quite right. And of course, I was waking up at 3:00 am every single day. Pretty much, I hated myself.

But then, by 6 o’clock the next night, everything seemed fine again, and the wine which would say, you know, God’s sake, you’re so busy and your mom and this and that and come on, you know, you need a glass of sauvignon. And so, it would all just start again, really. And you know, it wasn’t until, I mean, there’s always a lightbulb moment isn’t there for people, whatever it is the thing that the catalysts that that you know that that sort of tips everything over the edge. And for me, I knew something had to change I really knew. But I didn’t know anyone else like me.

In the UK, definitely we are brainwashed. I now believe into thinking that there are two types of drinkers there are those at rock bottom, who absolutely need alcohol services rehabilitation. I knew that wasn’t me, I was perfectly fine. You know, everyone else thought I was fine. Anyway, nobody would have known there was an issue. And we think that there are people who need those alcohol services. And then there’s everyone else and everyone else is 100% Fine, just occasionally gets drunk. But I wasn’t that either. And so, I had no idea that other people felt the same way. No idea. And then I was given Claire Pooley’s book to read, The Sober Diaries, just before Christmas 20 At the end of 2017. When you work in radio, if you’re lucky enough to be, get to be given a book to read. It’s normally the night before, if you’re very lucky. But we were interviewing Claire in the January of the following year. So, we were given two weeks to read the book. So, I look at the title of this book. And I remember really clearly thinking the minute I looked at this title, the sober diaries. I thought oh, wow, wow, this is probably kind of meant to be.

So, of course, I didn’t even pick it up till after Christmas. I didn’t want to ruin it. Right. But the minute I started reading that book, I think I knew I think I knew right then that it was time I suddenly caught sight of someone else like me. No rock bottom. No, no long term. You know, illness, just someone just a busy mum drinking too much needing to get out the trap and caught sight of that better life. And I’d never ever thought about that before in the past and always see Well, I got why would I want my life to be worse? How am I going to cope with that drink? I can’t, just can’t imagine who I can become without it. You know. So, when I kind of caught sight of that better life that was that was the, the little the catalyst that I needed to, to get started really?

Casey McGuire Davidson  10:19

Yeah, I mean, that’s so interesting because I interviewed Claire, on this podcast as well and reached out to her pretty much because the sober diaries was also really important in helping me decide to stop drinking. And it’s also one of the first books that I recommend, especially to working women or women who have been in the working world previously with smaller children. Yeah, because I think you’re exactly right. You know, they’re, you know, our spectrum of gray area drinkers. And we in the United States also tend to put people in a category, right? Either you’re an alcoholic, or you don’t have a problem, yet we’re here to tell you to drink less. And I do think it’s very important to find women that you relate to who have stopped drinking and say that it’s better on the other side, even if they love drinking. So yeah, I love that. I think it’s important. And I think it’s important about the work you’re doing, you know, talking to people about stopping drinking life on the other side being happier, and health and well-being.

11:33

Well, I think, you know, for me, I quickly realized, well, actually not that quickly. But over time, it came to me that this was way more than just not doing something. That’s just the beginning. It’s literally the most important thing you will ever do for your health and well-being. You know, I have clients, sometimes he’ll say to me, Oh, I really want to stop drinking. And I’m going vegan, I’m trying really hard to be vegan, and I’m taking up exercise, and I’ve gone sugar free. And I’m also trying to be kind of raw at the moment. And like just enough already, this is the most important thing you’ll ever do. It’s not a health trend. Right? It’s not, it is way more important than not saying those things don’t matter, though.

Great, do whatever other stuff you want to do later. But you have to deal with this one first on its own, because this is the biggest thing you’ll ever do. But this underpins everything, it’s all about coming back to who you are.

And people who’ve been drinking too much, almost always don’t like themselves very much. That’s the truth of it. We don’t like ourselves. Because how can we we’re not authentic when we’re putting poison into ourselves.

And so, it’s massive, both physically and emotionally. And when you can kind of get your head around that the importance of it, then you can give it the attention it deserves. And it really does deserve all of your attention. Yeah, so totally agree non-negotiable, it has to be non-negotiable.

Casey McGuire Davidson  13:06

Yeah. And I think that also when you try to combine the health kick or the vegan or the, you know, whole 30 with trying to stop drinking, to some extent, it sets you up to fail, because stopping drinking is, is hard enough on its own. And like you said, you need to make that your main priority. But not only that, I did a number of different, you know, diets throughout the year that removed alcohol, and pretty much I was like, Oh, I’ll get skinny, and I won’t drink this will be fabulous. And I found that it really took the emphasis off for me the not drinking, the emphasis was the health kick or the diet. And there is a lot of emotional work around your identity and how you cope and tie to alcohol. And if you’re tying it with something else, you don’t get to do that work.

14:02

No, that’s absolutely right. It’s one of the things that I you know; I talk about a lot in the sober club is this whole idea of needing to step into this new identity of who you really are. Most of us were, you know, we don’t have that level of emotional intelligence. If we’ve been drinking, sometimes it’s with teenagers. It’s like a lot of years. And actually, we’re we don’t know how to handle a lot of stuff because we’ve never had to do it without the haze of booze. So, when you’re suddenly faced with whatever’s going on, it can feel very unsettling very wobbly. I was like a it was on a roller coaster of emotions for the first few months. Really quite raw and chaotic. You know, I now know there were things I could have done to make that a lot easier but in a way I’m glad I went through it the hard way because now I can help more people because I you know, I recognize it. But I think it can be a real thing for people because you know it frees up more time, a lot more time. You know, I’ve had several club members say to me, I actually realized I don’t have anything in my life drink was my only thing, how frightening is that I don’t have anything. And then people who have who are really nervous about how it’s gonna affect their relationships, if their partner is their drinking buddy and there’s really not much else that sticks them together as it were. That’s really scary for people. So, this is all this kind of negotiating and navigating that you have to do in the kind of first year of sobriety all the firsts, you know, the first time you go on holiday, the foot, you know, and etc. So, I do think it takes some time, but it’s a fabulous experience.

You know, it’s, it’s, it’s unusual, for sure. Because you really are learning you actually finding out who you are. And most people, I would say probably everyone gets to actually like themselves because they get to find out who they really are. And, you know, people who are sober are more kind, you know, as a general rule, they’re more open hearted, they’re more kind, they’re more compassionate, because they’ve been there done it. They know how it feels to beat to be numbed by booze, you know, so. So yeah, it’s absolutely massive. It’s funny, because on the one hand, you think about, you know, stopping drink, Houthi well, so all you’re doing is not doing something. But, of course, it’s way more than that.

Casey McGuire Davidson  16:32

If you’re listening to this episode and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit. The Sobriety Starter Kit is an online self study, sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step-by-step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one-on-one coaching. And The Sobriety Starter Kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it, when it fits into your schedule.  You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time. This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step-by-step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life. You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better, you’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course.

I always say it’s simple, but it’s not easy. Exactly that what you have to do is simple. And so much of what you were saying resonated with me and you know, I thought of a bunch of different things to talk about. But you mentioned stopping being numb and having all the emotions come up.

Yeah. And one thing I love that Glennon Doyle wrote was she compares early sobriety to recovering from frostbite. Yeah, and like, all of a sudden, the feelings start, you know, coming up like tingles and then they’re daggers right? So, anger, regret, sadness, insecurity, like, suddenly you’re feeling it all. But it is how you come back to being alive and your coping tools get stronger. It’s just in the early days, everything so raw, you feel like you’re walking around without your outer layer of skin, that tear effect it.

I remember. Yeah, that’s exactly how I felt I really did. I felt as though everyone could see my obvious it was like; everyone can see me as if I was an x-ray. I felt so raw and exposed. You’re right. And I’ve really done a lot of work on this over the last couple of years. Because I think, you know, it is such a massive part of stepping into your identity. I think really, we’re not very good at embracing all of our emotions. We kind of want to compartmentalize everything and you know, if we’re feeling happy, well, that’s good. But if we’re feeling you know, envy So, or sad or anxious, that’s not good. Let’s get rid of that straightaway. And when we no longer have the ability to just simply quickly numb it with booze, you know, our sort of inner toddler has a little bit of a, of a tantrum as will this isn’t okay. I don’t want to be feeling this this way. Of course, if we could, you know, teach kids from a very early age, you know, all emotions are welcome.

Let’s just see what’s going on, you know, and I did a podcast with a fabulous woman called Carla McLennan if you’re aware of her work, fantastic work around me, literally around embracing all emotions, and the fact that every emotion has something to teach us. And she wrote a great book called embracing anxiety. And she talks about anxiety, as I forget her expression, she has a fabulous expression to describe it, which I can’t remember. But along the lines of, you know, it’s welcome. Because it’s your opportunity to look at where the overwhelm is. It’s, she says, anxiety is almost always linked to overwhelm.

Yeah, so here’s your opportunity to take a fresh look at that, you know, and when you can kind of accept that all of us have all of these emotions, and they’re all okay. So, let’s just accept them, and sit with it, and then decide, Okay, from here, well, so in this moment, am I safe? Obviously, that’s the most important one. But in this moment, and I say for other actually tigers, or fire, obviously, if there are run, but otherwise, if in this moment, I’m safe, let’s just sit with that emotion and ask what’s really going on. Whereas of course, for years, what we did was, you know, feel a bit upset about something, and then go, Oh, my goodness, how do I deal with this? You know, the unconscious mind says, well, obviously, you just numb it out right now. Yeah. And overtime, it gets easier. In the early weeks, every single thought becomes a big episode of having to kind of remember that we are not our thoughts that we can actually pause and decide to make a decision.

Casey McGuire Davidson  22:05

When you know what’s interesting, I think, you know, I know for me, but also for a lot of other women that I work with, when you feel anger or resentment or any negative emotion. Like you said, jealousy, we’re kind of taught that it is not good to express emotion. Yeah, so we drink. You know, instead of challenging someone or talking to someone, we don’t want it, we want to avoid confrontation alive. Exactly. And then what happens is, we wake up in the morning, and we turn all those negative emotions on ourselves. We blame ourselves, because we drank because we’re hungover because we’re low. And so, it’s just a cycle, when in actuality, you probably are very justified in feeling the way you do. And usually, it means a boundary needs to be.

22:57

Exactly. I think that’s one of the most amazing things about sobriety, I missed amazing benefits that I had not foreseen at all was the ability to be able to be much more balanced in our approach to it to everything much more balanced when it comes to conflict, much more balanced when it comes to, as you say, boundaries definitely helps you become a better parent. I mean, definitely. And as I said before, it helps you become a kinder person, because you know, you are able to see the shadow side as well. And I’m not saying you know, I never have a hissy fit, never, you know, have a have a big old shout. But you know, if I’m in the wrong, I’ll apologize.

Casey McGuire Davidson  23:38

Yeah. And at least when you get really frustrated. Yeah. No, that is literally how you feel not I mean, drinking, like exacerbates all of your emotions and makes you angry or sad. Yeah.

23:53

Just a phrase that somebody once said to me once on it made me furious. They said, Oh, that’s the wine talking us furious. But of course, they were right. Yeah, they were right. You know, you become a different person when you’re drinking? Well, of course you do. Because it’s poison, right. And when you no longer have that in your system, then you’re able to make your decisions. And everything in your relationships is just becomes just more balanced really?

Casey McGuire Davidson  24:25

Well, I know you’re really into holistic living and all the tools and so if someone’s listening to this, and in that stage of having numbed their emotions for so long, and not, you know, it’s overwhelming to feel them. When you take away the alcohol. What are some tools or tips that you have for people on how to get through that and how to sort of soften it?

24:49

Yeah. So I think it’s super important to have your sober toolkit and as I call it, and you know what I mean by that there are a few components to it, but I think Number one, it’s mega important to eat well, and I know, you know, it’s probably not what you were asking, but it actually does underpin it all because the brain chemistry, when you first stopped drinking is all over the shop, you know, your dopamine, your GABA serotonin in your body is probably thinking what the hell is going on now seriously, what’s going on, I can’t sleep, I’m not feeling happy, like, you know, if you sort of think of it from the perspective of your brain cells. So, we have to put back some of those helpful brain chemistry chemicals as it were. And the best way to do that is through food. If you want to help balance that brain chemistry, then do it through really good nutrition. And I’m just talking about real food. So, which is why you can’t be dieting at the same time or doing any kind of fasts or anything fatty at all. You need three meals a day and protein with every meal, proper nutrient dense foods, it’s so important.

Casey McGuire Davidson  25:56

So, and I find that hunger is the number one biggest trigger.

26:01

Exactly, exactly. So often we’re not, we’re not really wanting to drink at all, we’re just hungry.

Casey McGuire Davidson  26:05

Yeah. And so, what I recommend is, you know, right before the witching hour, for me, it was before I left the office to have a snack with protein right then, so you don’t drive home? Hungry. Right? And then also the watch shop. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, exactly. That’s a great one.

26:24

So yeah, so you know, having food, the healthy, you know, healthy snacks, as you say, you know, a green smoothie, when you know is always going to work because it’s gonna go straight to the cells, literally, for you feel like you’ve been plugged in if you have a fabulous green smoothie, and nobody but nobody fancies alcohol after that, right. So that’s, you know, that’s another good tip. Nutritionally, I’m a really big fan of alcohol free drinks. By that I mean, grown up drinks. So not, you know, I don’t want coke or orange juice, because I’m not 12, right, I want a nice drink and a nice glass. And so, I you know, my mantra is keep the ritual, change the ingredients. So, you know, if you usually have a drink with your partner in an evening, or you go and see your parents and you have a drink with them, then keep that ritual rituals are important to us, but have a lovely glass and have something alcohol free in it. And it’s impossible not to find something you like it’s not physically possible not to, because the choice is huge. Everything from tonic waters, calm butchers, you know, through to alcohol, free beer and wine and fears and botanicals and everything in between. So, I do think that’s important. And I’ve had a lot of clients that will say to me, oh, no, I don’t need to worry about that. I’m good with my tea. I’m good cup of tea, fine. I say well, let’s wait and see. And then the very first time there at some, something celebratory, the little inner toddler starts saying, Well, this is really rubbish. Because they’re all celebrating with a lovely grown up drink, and I’ve got a crap cup of tea. And so, then it all kicks off, you know, whereas if you’ve prepped in advance, and you’ve got a lovely glass of something grown up, then you’re good to go. So, it’s really you have to do the prep, you have to have that ready, and you’re sober toolkit.

Casey McGuire Davidson  28:10

You know, I fully agree. I actually love when you say, keep the ritual chain chaser ingredients, because I mean, I’m a huge fan of nonalcoholic beer. I also love sort of groovy Prosecco and bubbly. Rosé. And there’s so much else. But, you know, it’s true. Like Friday night, in the summer, we’re hanging out around the fire pit like I bring out an athletic Brewing Company beer. It hits the spot, right as the same taste the same? Can you get the same hit? And you know, I love nonalcoholic mosquitoes there. Yeah. So, you know, you can really enjoy, you know, absolutely

28:50

addictive in case anyone’s thinking, Oh my God, but with my addictive personality, I’ll get addicted to those. I thought that at first, I thought oh my god, I’m gonna I’m gonna be the only person addicted, but it doesn’t happen. Why? Because they’re not addictive. It’s as simple as that, you know, I I’m not addicted to alcohol free drinks any more than I’m addicted to kiwi fruit. You know, I like a kiwifruit, but I don’t need to join a group about it. So anyway, I think that the nutrition piece and the being prepped with the right snacks and drinks is a super important part of this. Yeah, I think making sure that you are that you have some kind of spirituality or inspirational outlet of some kind. And by that what I mean is, you know, it’s important to be immersed in this stuff we were talking about, you know, Quizlet books and podcasts and meditate audio meditations and whatever it is, whatever floats your boat, but get immersed in this stuff because if you don’t, you will be on your own with your thoughts. And you will very quickly find that a little voice in Your head will say, Oh, I know you would had a couple of months sober. But oh, what the hell you know, it, won’t it or whatever the boy says to you. Whereas if you can constantly be reminded that life is better, life is better without the booze is that positive sobriety peace? Yeah, and start to consider what else could be there for me, you know, what other layers can I unwrap? When I’ve done this, it can start to feel very exciting. So, I think that’s a key piece. Journaling is a brilliant thing to do, you know, literally physically writing things down with a pen and paper, you know, old style. Louise Hay has, you know, this, the fantastic phrase, you can’t clean it, you can’t clean the house, and you can see the dirt. So, we actually do have to get the stuff out. And journaling is one of the quickest, easiest ways to do it, just write three pages in the morning of stream of consciousness stuff, just dump your thoughts down. And actually, even that can be quite hard for some people to do, because they’ve probably never done it before. They’ve never actually allow their thoughts to come from some dark place out. You don’t have to do anything with it, then have to edit it or read it or post it, you just get it out. And some kind of magic happens when you do that. Because even the thoughts that you didn’t want to have to think you you’ve committed for three minutes, I’m just going to write down every thought that comes into my head, even if the thought is I can’t think of anything. Okay, write that down.

Yeah, it’s, it can be amazingly healing in the first few weeks of sobriety stew, that it’s almost like a form of meditation, just do that brain dump. And just see what happens. Yeah, can be quite magical. So that kind of inspirations, spirituality, whatever you want to call it, obviously, meditation if you if you but a lot of people find they can’t meditate at the beginning, I certainly couldn’t when I was drinking. So that’s a build up for a lot of people. And then of course, the really, really important one is connection. And I just don’t think this is possible without connection with like-minded people. We really need people who have been there, done it got the t shirt. And again, I’ll have clients sometimes will say to me, I don’t really need to, you know, join the sober club or find a tribe of any kind because my partner’s really supportive. He has an off switch, so he doesn’t drink too much. So, I’m so lucky. It’s all good. And then you find you know, little way down the line, they’ll be having a bad day or feeling a little bit wobbly, and set partner will say to them, you know what you’re doing so well. I’m so proud of you. So, you’ve got it now. So, you can just have one just have one with Yeah, yeah. Because they don’t get it. So, to be part of a community where people absolutely know what you’ve been through. But even if you’re a year, two years sober three years sober, they’re cheerleading you on to the next thing you’re doing. That’s what’s really magical I think about when people like minded people are sober. It doesn’t matter what stage they’re at. They, they really cheerlead each other’s successes.

Casey McGuire Davidson  33:08

Yeah. Because they get how hard it is how fragile you are, like, Oh, my God, 14 days. That’s incredible. Yeah. And it’s also like, don’t drink on day 30 You’re just through the worst part, like exactly going.

33:24

And even people who, you know, we’ve had people in the sober club, who I remember was one woman who’d been sober for something like 18 months, but then she was about to go on a long haul flight. And suddenly, oh, my goodness, absolute triggers, like you couldn’t believe because of course, airports are weird places where, where you’re, you’re forced to drink, right? whatever time of day it is. And she just had this massive wobble and was able to kind of post in our community and she just got such love Chuck tattered. You know, literally just come on sweetheart, go to this place and all yourself and get a nice glass, some ice in it, have a lovely tonic and make sure they put a lemon in for you. And you know, and then check back in and, and she was just literally kind of love bombed really. Into recognizing, of course, she could do this, of course, it was fine. And it was but without that support and that kind of cheerleading, it probably would have been different. Yeah.

Casey McGuire Davidson  34:23

And I also think that we’re surrounded by such a boozy culture where drinking is pushed and rewarded. just immersing yourself in any community where people want to be alcohol for you are out at Cree and are talking about the health benefit and the personal transformation they’re going through and yeah.

Aspirational, isn’t it?

Yeah, it’s lovely. It’s lovely. See, actually aspiring to, you know, we all got someone ahead of us and someone behind us and that’s fantastic. And when we can aspire, I love seeing the transformations people have Just amazing. People do things that they never would have dreamed they would have done. One of the one of my sober club members has done just on a writing course, is doing a degree in writing. And she just said, I cannot, I can’t believe it. I just can’t believe it. I would never have done anything like that. You know, others, one woman saved enough money from not drinking to buy a camper van. So, she can go traveling and you become brave when you ditch the booze.

Casey McGuire Davidson  35:27

Yeah, and your life actually gets bigger. We all think that our life is going to get smaller if we stopped drinking, but drinking actually keeps you know, when you mentioned that one of the women said, Oh my gosh, I have nothing in my life. Because drinking was my main activity. She’s small. It does keep you small. He keeps you sort of; you know, a lot of my nights were me on my couch having a party by myself on a Tuesday. Yeah. And then you do have all this time and more energy to say, Okay, what do I want to do?

35:59

Yeah, totally. Yeah. Well, we could go on forever, couldn’t we?

Casey McGuire Davidson  36:04

So, tell me about your book, and sort of the approach you take and, and how it helps people.

36:11

Yeah. So, I, I wrote the book, happy, healthy, sober, ditch the booze and take control of your life. And it? Well, I mean, the title is really important, you know, the ditch the booze part, because I never use the phrase giving up, as we alluded to before, because you’re not giving anything up. And, and I really wanted to include, you know, happy, healthy, sober, because it is important for that, to have that emotional wellbeing piece. And it is important to be healthy. And so, you know, for me, as I’ve, you know, been queen of optimum health and well-being for me all now fits together. It didn’t before, but now it does. And so, I really want to encourage everyone to, to live their best life, literally, whatever that means for you. But what I found is that if you start with ditching the BS, it’s got to be the most important thing. You know, it really has, it’s no point in coming to me and saying, Well, I might ditch the booze. But right now, can you help me lose weight? No, no, I can’t. And neither can you? Because you don’t like yourself. So, let’s start there.

So, I think you know what, once you ditch the booze, then almost everyone starts to become really interested in all the other pieces. Because how will you not you know, once you start to like yourself, and you what you can start to focus on self-care. Of course, you want to think about what you’re putting in your body. Of course, you want to care about the environment, and what you’re putting on your skin. So, one thing follows on from the other. And in The Sober Club, we love kind of bringing in a whole load of other stuff as well. So, we do everything we’ve got kind of someone doing breathing techniques with as a shaman doing movement, we’ve got somebody, there’s angel cards, we bring in all kinds of stuff, everyone laughs and goes, Oh, my goodness, only came here, just talking about not drinking. And look at me now. I’ve got whoo, whoo.

Yeah. But anyway, I was telling you about the book. So, the book is, is really a combination of everything. So, we have a whole very big section on literally how to ditch the booze and how your brain works, and the cravings and the mindset and, and the nutritional piece, and how you can really piece together the first sort of six, six weeks really. And then the second section of the book is absolutely huge. And the good news is, it’s not just me, I’ve got loads of amazing experts who’ve contributed sections. So, you know, there’s everything in there from nutrition, and that there, I’ve got some doctors contributing. There’s a section on the menopause, written by a doctor, a section on mindset and spirituality and meditation and yoga, fitness, I mean, everything, you name it, if it’s linked to holistic well-being, we’ve covered it in the book. So, it’s a bit of a lifestyle Bible, really. But with the overriding message that all of this is there for you for the taking, you know, for you to live your best life, whatever that means for you. If you get free from your contract,

Casey McGuire Davidson  39:02

yeah. And I’ve seen that like, a lot of women are like, Well, I’m unhappy with my job, or I’m unhappy with my partner or whatever it is. If you get rid of the alcohol, then you do some work on yourself, honestly, because you have to it you know, that was your main coping mechanism, you know, a horrible toxic one that was making you more anxious and depressed, but still, that was what you used. And when you take that away, you have to do some work on boundaries. You know, how to calm yourself and how to manage emotions. And then everything else changes. I found that once I stopped drinking, my job was significantly easier than it was when I was drinking. I had a lot less resentment towards it. But at the same time, I had clarity to say is this what I want in my life and if not, sort of the confidence to change it which I didn’t before. I was barely making In it, through my days, I felt like anything was going to blow me over.

40:04

Yeah, totally, I think, you know, interestingly, you know, it can be one of the things that stops people, that makes people afraid of stopping drinking, because somewhere deep down, they know that if they do, they’re going to have to take a fresh look at their, the relationship they’re in, or the career they’re in, or the job that or whatever. And they’re so nervous of doing that, that it makes them not quit, as it were. But what is almost always the case is that, once you actually get through that hard bit and focus just on that, as you say, you become much more resilient, and much more confident. And from that place, you have such clarity over what it is you want. And that may not mean everything’s easy, or you know, everything’s does not sort of unicorns and rainbows as it right away. But you are able to, to just deal with whatever you need to deal with in a much more balanced way, much as much less drama, when you’re sober.

Oh, absolutely. You’re much fairer person, I think.

Yeah. And, you know, sometimes relationships. And, you know, I had one of my clients or relationships, she did realize that it was time to enter a relationship. But she now looks back and she says, My God, I can’t believe it. She did the whole thing. So amicably remained friends, no money in lawyers’ fees, because just all done, you know, in an unbelievably grown up way. And she says, you know, if that had been when I’d been drinking, oh, my God, it would have been a different picture. Yeah.

Casey McGuire Davidson  41:38

Yeah, one of the things I’ve heard you say is, it doesn’t really matter how much you drink, because a lot of women are like, Okay, well, I drank two or three glasses a night, I never finished the bottle, or I only drink on the weekends. But I drink way more than I want to and tell me, why you if someone’s listening to this, if someone’s questioning their drinking, or debating whether it’s serving them, why doesn’t it matter? How much they’re drinking?

42:09

Well, I think, you know, many of us have been through stages where we’ve Googled, am I an alcoholic? am I drinking too much? How much is too much? Right. Now, there is no answer to any of those questions. And unfortunately, we think there is an answer, because an answer will come back, you know, it will come but it will you’ll google it. And it will say do you need alcohol to get going in the morning? Are you drinking at 10:00 am? And you go, oh, thank God, that’s not me. Oh, thank God for that. I’m good. All right, off I go. And this is what keeps us stuck. I remember, for years and years and years, if I ever saw a GP or a therapist or practitioner, for anything, for any reason, whatever it was, if I felt safe with them, I might at the end of the consultation, whatever it was for I might have gone in for I don’t know, a plaster or something. No problem with my toe. I remember I had one. But at the end of the appointment, I felt confident enough to just say to the GP actually, there was one other thing. You know, do you mind if I just share with you that I’m actually worried about? My drink? And of course, her answer well, her quite, you know, answer as well. How much you drinking? You know, you look fine, how much you’re drinking. So obviously I lied. I mean, everyone lives. So, I said, you know, oh, well, two glasses a night. Three, you know, sometimes four? And of course, she just sort of said, well, seems completely normal to me. Just have an alcohol free day. Every now and then. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Unbelievable. And so, she literally gave me carte blanche to carry on drinking. So, I walk away thinking, well, thank God for that. I’m good. And that kept me stuck for years. Years. What she actually needed to say to me was, Oh, my God, well done. You you’ve actually recognized something, let me signpost you to where you can find out about how great your life’s going to be when you stop this. And they don’t know, do they?

Yeah. They don’t know.

And she was probably drinking yourself. Yes.

Yeah. So. So what I always say to people is, it doesn’t matter how much you drink.

Really?

What matters is, you ask instead of asking, am I drinking too much? Ask yourself the question, could my life be better physically and emotionally without alcohol? And a little voice somewhere will probably view listen to this will say hell yes. Yes, it would, in which case, quit? Yes, it really is. Could your life be better? And you know, I always say to people who talk about moderation, you know, like, oh, well, I’m not drinking too much, and I don’t want to stop I just want I just want to not drink Wednesdays, or I just want to like, why would you want poison just on Tuesdays or whichever day it’s poison right? Why would you want? I just don’t believe that if it’s a thing for you, it’s a thing. You know what I mean by that is, people who genuinely do have an off switch, who are genuinely moderate drinkers, there are some. It’s not a thing.

They wouldn’t be listening to this podcast, they won’t be reading the books, they will never Google. am I drinking too much anymore than I will ever Google? I’m worried about my kiwi fruit eating. Because, you know, I had one yesterday. And you know, if there’s one in the house, I might even make a kiwi fruit salad tomorrow, and then I’m not gonna have another one for six months, or I don’t care. It’s not thing. But if it’s a thing for you, then quit.

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, get support to do it. Right. You don’t have to do this alone or white knuckling it or as you said, stay in, you know, by yourself, in your own mind debating, you know, that I tried that so many times. I tried it so many times, when I think back, I really did try. And I did stop drinking. Actually, I remember. Gosh, probably 10/12 years ago. I, I did a juice retreat. And obviously, during the juice detox, I didn’t drink. And then I thought, You know what, this feels good. I won’t drink I’d read a book; I think about the kind of logic about how bad alcohol is for you. So, I thought, well, this is not, you know, because not good for me, I’ll carry this on. I’m feeling good. And actually, didn’t drink for about six, maybe even six months. And then I was at a party. And there was only, you know, champagne or something. And literally, the voice in my head said, Well, you haven’t got a problem. And everyone’s drinking champagne. And of course, it’s that’s Champagne is glamorous, and you don’t have any issue. So, you’re gonna have champagne. And then I was straight back down the slippery slope. You know, and I, you know, I realize now that I had a little bit of the logic at that point, you know that alcohol is bad. But I didn’t have any of the emotional piece and didn’t have any of the motivation to recognize that life was so much better without any. Yeah. So as soon as that trigger came in, I had nothing to carry me through. No connections, no support. No, no one challenging. The you know that that voice, that narrative?

Casey McGuire Davidson  47:29

So yeah, straight, straight back down the booze elevator when also you sit there. And as you said, the right question would be, well, is my life better over the last six months than it was when I was drinking?

47:40

Yeah, exactly. But you’d need to be aware to even ask yourself that question. Yeah. And I wasn’t, I really wasn’t, I was, it was just, I was treating it the way you treat a diet or something, you know, yeah, I hadn’t, I wasn’t fully immersed in this potential of who I could be this, this sober identity, if you like. Yeah, I think I think catching sight of your own potential is so important.

Casey McGuire Davidson  48:06

And it really should be sort of a transformational time and a self-time of self-awareness and self-care. And, you know, as you said, if you just remove the alcohol, but don’t do any of the work at your identity, and why drinking is important to you, and the people you surround yourself with and your beliefs about its value, all of that it is easy to go back to it. And once you kind of are like I’ve learned about what alcohol does to you both physically and emotionally. And I’m also doing all these things that I never would have even had the clarity to think about when I was drinking because I was too sort of fuzzy numbed out hungover, busy, then, you know, then you get to move forward.

48:54

Yeah, and I think keeping a note of all of that’s really important, you know, actually noting down the benefits because can be easy to forget when that journaling, right, like exactly feel in the area.

49:06

Keep that. Keep that gratitude list, you know, and write down the tiny things that happened. So not gratitude lists, like you know, I’m grateful for my home, but some really specific tiny details you know, that that that you notice that that you notice that you behaved slightly differently with the colleague at work who normally winds you up? You know, or you notice that actually it really lifted your spirits when you saw the flowers starting to bloom tiny things are what you start to notice when you when you when you’re not drinking, you start to notice this for blessings, and they really add up because you sure as hell don’t notice that stuff when you drink.

49:47

Yeah, yeah, we’re like waking up Sunday morning. Waking fresh, waking up sober, never gets tired does a good day.

Casey McGuire Davidson  49:58

Well, I love the way you look at this From a place of positivity and everything that you gain from not drinking. And so, tell us a little bit about your podcast before we go.

50:10

Yeah, so Alcohol Free Life has been going for… Gosh, yeah. 2 years, I think. Is it something like that? I can’t actually remember long term now. And, yeah, I love it.

In podcasts, I started the podcast because I was loving listening to podcasts. And it made such a difference to me to be able to listen to podcasts. So, I thought, Oh, my goodness, I’m gonna start my own, you know, so working radio, and I had no idea if anyone would listen or not, I thought, well, I’ll just do a couple and just see. But of course, I am lucky in that I’m able to get amazing guests. So, you know, I had Catherine gray and Annie grace on and Jason Vale and just loads of amazing people and lots of sober heroes and, and so yeah, it’s just it’s gone from strength to strength. I love doing it. It’s a bit of a labor of love, as you know, quite hard work sometimes keeping it going. I never have a week off like ever.

So yeah, it’s quite exhausting. But I love doing it. And, you know, now obviously, I’ve got the book out as well. So, and I run The Sober Club. So yeah, it is very much my, my raison d’etre is trying to get across this positive message, because I still think, you know, there is when people talk about quitting booze, there is still this huge negativity attached to it. I heard an ad on the radio, just today actually linked to the whole dry January thing. And I can’t remember the exact words, but it was along the lines of oh my goodness, January’s such a long month and how much longer till you can have a drink. But never mind by this, whatever it is, you know, whatever, chocolates, sweets, I can’t know what it was to cheer you up. And this and that is the kind of Zeitgeist feeling, that, Oh, without booze, everything’s terrible. Absolute nonsense. That literally, the opposite is true.

Casey McGuire Davidson  51:59

Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. Well, so if people want to learn more about the work, you do your podcast, what’s the best place for them to find you?

52:09

Yeah, just go to thesoberclub.com. And everything is there. It’s the blogs and competitions and the podcast is there and everything else. And there’s a membership part of it, if anyone’s interested in that, which is a huge member portal full of content, and kind of a group as well. And an online course. So yeah, there’s a lot going on, and I’m on social media very easy to find @janeyleegrace.

Casey McGuire Davidson  52:35

Perfect. Well, I’ve loved this conversation. So, thank you so much.

52:39

Oh, thank you so much. It’s lovely to chat to you.