You don’t need to have a drinking problem for alcohol to keep you from breaking through to your best life.

Sometimes, without even being aware of it, we’ve allowed alcohol to steal our time and energy, cloud our clarity, fuel self-doubt, reduce motivation and alter our brains and bodies.. 

Our lives have been dulled by booze.

I asked Amanda Kuda, author of the book Unbottled Potential: Break Up With Alcohol And Break Through To Your Best Life to talk with me about how alcohol keeps us stuck in “good enough”. 

Before she stopped drinking Amanda’s life looked really good from the outside. She was young, healthy, single and attractive with a successful career and an active social life. But she describes her life as “a shallow, repetitive merry go round of ladder climbing and elbow rubbing that was sold as “the dream”.” 

When she stepped back she saw that most of her friendships lacked depth, her romantic life was unfulfilling, she was working for someone else’s dream and her life was devoid of the spiritual connection she craved. 

What started as a 30 day break from alcohol became a transformational experience as Amanda committed the time, money and energy she had previously spent on partying to her own personal, emotional and spiritual development. 

Since we’ve been taught to use alcohol as a tool for socialization and numbing uncomfortable emotions, we use alcohol as our main form of entertainment, rewards, coping and relaxation. 

We pour a drink instead of reaching for more. 

In this episode, Amanda and I discuss:

  • The myth of moderation
  • How to evaluate whether it’s time to break up with booze
  • Why you shouldn’t think about forever
  • Self-sabotage and the upper limit problem some women experience
  • How alcohol makes you miss out on important experiences
  • Tips for exploring your sober curiosity 
  • Navigating social situations without alcohol
  • How sobriety can lead to a more fulfilled and purposeful life

Previous Hello Someday Podcast Interviews With Amanda Kuda

Ep. 66: Does Alcohol Keep You Playing Small?

3 Ways I Can Support You In Drinking Less + Living More

Join The Sobriety Starter Kit, the only sober coaching course designed specifically for busy women. 

My proven, step-by-step sober coaching program will teach you exactly how to stop drinking  — and how to make it the best decision of your life.

Save your seat in my FREE MASTERCLASS, 5 Secrets To Successfully Take a Break From Drinking 

Grab the Free 30-Day Guide To Quitting Drinking, 30 Tips For Your First Month Alcohol-Free.

Connect with me for free sober coaching tips, updates + videos on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest and TikTok @hellosomedaysober.

Connect with Amanda Kuda

Amanda is an alcohol-free lifestyle expert. She’s a holistic life coach, speaker and author living, working and playing in Austin, TX. As a coach, Amanda helps ambitious, soul-centered women stop drinking and start manifesting the life they deserve and desire.

She teaches a modern approach to personal development, self-actualization and spiritual enlightenment through the lens of elective sobriety. 

Purchase Amanda’s first book, Unbottled Potential: Break Up With Alcohol And Break Through To Your Best Life hit shelves October 3, 2023 (Penguin Random House / Avery)!

Follow Amanda on Instagram @amandakuda

To learn more about Amanda and her community, head over to Authentically, Amanda | Resources & Coaching For Driven Sober & Sober-Curious Females

Connect with Casey

Take a screenshot of your favorite episode, post it on your Instagram and tag me @caseymdavidson and tell me your biggest takeaway!

Want to read the full transcript of this podcast episode? Scroll down on this page.


Are you looking for the best sobriety podcast for women? The Hello Someday Podcast was created specifically for sober curious women and gray area drinkers ready to stop drinking, drink less and change their relationship with alcohol.

Host Casey McGuire Davidson, a certified life and sobriety coach and creator of The 30-Day Guide to Quitting Drinking and The Sobriety Starter Kit Sober Coaching Course, brings together her experience of quitting drinking while navigating work and motherhood, along with the voices of experts in personal development, self-care, addiction and recovery and self-improvement. 

Whether you know you want to stop drinking and live an alcohol-free life, are sober curious, or are in recovery this is the best sobriety podcast for you.

A Top 100 Mental Health Podcast, ranked in the top 0.5% of podcasts globally with over 1 million downloads, The Hello Someday Podcast is the best sobriety podcast for women.

In each episode, Casey will share the tried and true secrets of how to drink less and live more.

Learn how to let go of alcohol as a coping mechanism, how to shift your mindset about sobriety and change your drinking habits, how to create healthy routines to cope with anxiety, people pleasing and perfectionism, the importance of self-care in early sobriety, and why you don’t need to be an alcoholic to live an alcohol-free life. 

Be sure to grab the Free 30-Day Guide To Quitting Drinking right here.

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Break Up With Alcohol To Live Your Best Life with Amanda Kuda


Lifestyle, Expert, Holistic, ambitious, soul-centered, women, stop drinking, manifesting, personal development, self-actualization, spiritual enlightenment, collective, moderation, Gretchen Rubin, Dharma, path, society, boozy, happy hours, the “need” to conform, intelligence, feeling, purpose, encourage, curiosity, pursue, booze, time, energy, motivation, “good enough”, self-doubt, cope, Director, Fortune 500 Company, self-sabotage, more successful, fulfilling, full of happiness, joyful, conditioned women to be liked and accepted, Sobriety Coach, Coaching, passionate about, priorities, realities of adulting, responsibilities, primary breadwinner, someday can happen much more quickly. Someday can start today, perspective, underprivileged, financial windfalls, connections, self-made woman, quitting drinking, relationship with alcohol, AAA, 12 Steps, best version, opportunity, make that decision for yourself, vulnerability, boredom, grow, heal, nurture yourself, inner child, parenting, early sobriety, fear, sober, warrior, atomic habits, people pleasing, boundary, guide you, hold your hand through, support, boundaries, conversation flow, mindset shift, impostor syndrome, showing up, beliefs, Quit Lit, Gretchen Rubin, Myers-Briggs, moderator, accountability, obliger, rebel, chameleon, Gabrielle Bernstein, Jen Sincero, Belle, Gabrielle Bernstein, behavior, Unbottled Potential, Break Up With Alcohol, Live Your Best Life, Alcohol-Free, Life Coach, sober, podcast, sober women, sobriety

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Amanda Kuda


Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a buzz, how to sit with your emotions when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Hi there. Today, we are talking about


how to break up with alcohol to live your best life.


And Amanda Kuda is my guest. She’s one of my favorite people to talk to because I love her vibe. She’s an Alcohol-Free Lifestyle Expert. She’s a Holistic Life Coach, a speaker, and an author. Living, working, and playing in Austin, Texas.


As a Coach, Amanda helps ambitious, soul-centered women stop drinking and start manifesting the life they deserve and desire. She teaches a modern approach to personal development, self-actualization, and spiritual enlightenment through the lens of collective sobriety.


Amanda’s first book Unbottled Potential: Break Up With Alcohol And Break Through To Your Best Life hits shelves, October 3. And if you’re listening to this podcast on the day it comes out, it just released. Go and grab it. I read it this weekend. I absolutely loved it.


So, Amanda, welcome.



Hello. Thank you, Casey. I’m so excited to chat today.


Casey McGuire Davidson  2:33 

Yeah, I’m so excited to chat with you. Because I love your approach. And so, let’s just dive in. Yeah, let’s do it. Cool. So, one of the things that I thought was really interesting was you talk about breaking up with alcohol as a path to tapping into your potential and dive into moderation and the work of Gretchen Rubin in terms of like, Are you a moderator? Are you an abstainer? So, tell me about your approach and how you got there.



So, I like to think that I take a little bit of a novel approach to sobriety because I am really clear that, you know, looting alcohol free isn’t for everyone, there are certainly people in this life who are, you know, their path is to party and drink and do that whole thing. And if you know, whatever you believe in Dharma, or whatever, like some people, that’s just their path. If that’s your path, you probably are not here listening to this podcast right now.


So, I will suggest that your path is that, you know, deep down in your soul that you’re meant for something more, and that alcohol is holding you back. And yet, because this other like very playful, very, you know, work hard play hard path is so prevalent in our society, we can often get caught up in the idea that we need to conform. And we need to be a part of this path as well. This path, it involves drinking and happy hours, and boozy brunches, and all of these things, when in reality, that’s not what we’re meant for. And I think that anyone who has a sense that they’re meant for something greater, that they’re not as happy, as successful, as fulfilled, as connected, as, you know, spiritually enlightened as they could be. And you’re wondering if alcohol could be part of the root of that. If you even have a little blip of that, in your imagination.


I think that this is an important path and book and show for you because I think that you, there’s an intelligence to that feeling. There’s absolutely an intelligence to that feeling. And my purpose right now as a teacher is to encourage anyone who has that little blip of curiosity to pursue it so that they don’t get to, you know, the next decade of their life feeling with this feeling of oh, “what if”. What could I have done if I would have just really, you know, explored and shown up for myself and really pursued my potential in a very like bold way?


Casey McGuire Davidson  4:58 

Yeah, and The phrase that really stuck out to me was, you said, or talked about a life dulled by booze, about how it steals your time and energy, and reduces motivation, and lets you settle for “good enough”. And I know when I was drinking, I definitely felt that you talked about fueling self-doubt. I felt like I could barely cope with life and use to, you know, be like, why can everyone else cope? And wake up being like, What is wrong with me?



Yeah, and as a reminder, I mean, if you could remind us, you were pretty frickin’ successful as a drinker. Right? Like, can you remind us of some of the things you were accomplishing?


Casey McGuire Davidson  5:46 

Yeah, I mean, I was married with two kids, I had a really good life, I was a Director at a Fortune 500 Company. And you know, from the outside pitted ton of friends from the outside, my life looked really good. I was still like, keeping everything together. But I felt like I was dying inside. And I did have, I feel like you had the feeling like you could be accomplishing more. And I have to say that you stopped drinking, you know, younger. And before I did, and we know it’s addictive and progressive. So, I definitely was like, drinking 365 days a year unless I was trying to stop. But I felt duped. Like, I really felt like I was going to ruin my marriage and my kids in my life. And it was going to be my fault. That’s how I felt.



Yeah. And yet, like, there’s probably a sense of like, well, because everyone else has said, Casey, you’re doing so great. You’re a director, you’re kicking ass and taking names? Should I just be happy. And I think that that is the biggest crock of bullshit that we fall for is that we should just be happy with what we have absolutely be grateful. I, you know, I don’t want to go down the road of like, comparing us to like someone in a third world country who has so much less because that shouldn’t be it, it should be like, What could I have? And am I doing everything within my power and my moral and ethical code to get that and the result is or the reality is that when you’re drinking, you are settling and like securing your place and good enough. And like, if you are seeing me right now, I’m like drawing this like straight line like this, like flatline, basically, of what we settle for, because we think, Oh, I should just be happy. I’m living a life that’s better than so many other people. And yet, you could you had that sense that you weren’t fulfilled, you knew that you were doing pretty good, but you weren’t not only fulfilled, but you were like hiding this sense of like existential dread that the bottom was going to fall out. Right. And that does not feel good.


And what my like theory is, and what I posit is that for women like you and me who are extremely capable, that really what we do with alcohol is we keep ourselves stuck in good enough, because how could you possibly climb to your peak potential, if you’re hungover and drunk half of the time? You can’t. And so, what do we do to keep ourselves like, satisfied or safe and secure and dulled down a little bit, but drink alcohol, and we don’t see it, because it’s so socially acceptable, we don’t realize we’re doing it. But on a higher level, what we’re doing is drinking to keep ourselves small, because part of us doesn’t know how to handle the possibility of what we’re actually capable of if we were operating at full capacity and not holding ourselves back. But you and I are living testaments that when you get out of your own way.


You can not only create a life that is more successful, more fulfilling, more full of happiness, but also easier, it’s more useful, like, that life that you were living did not sound easy. It sounded tumultuous, and treacherous. And if nothing else, like stressful is shit. And I look at you, now in your light, and you’re happy and you’re joyful, and you’re manifesting cool things, and I am doing the same. And that is the life that being alcohol-free has afforded me because I got out of my own way. And I stopped settling for what everyone else told me should be good enough. And I decided to go for great.


Casey McGuire Davidson  9:17 

Yeah, absolutely. And this is a conversation that I’ve wanted to have. I’ve actually been searching for the right guest to talk about this. I feel like what you’re describing is the upper limit problem. Yeah. Do you feel that?



Oh, absolutely. And so, for anyone who’s not familiar, that phrase was coined by Gay Hendricks. He is just one of my favorite people so epic. And he posits that when we come close to our most successful selves, what we do is we lock ourselves into an upper limit problem where we secretly self-sabotage and we do little sneaky things to keep ourselves from going past that upper limit of happiness and success. though, essentially what we’re doing is we’re saying, “this is all I deserve”. This is all I’m comfortable with. And so, we do little teeny tiny things to keep ourselves doled down into this level that is okay. It is, you know, Gay Hendricks describes it as our zone of excellence where we’re operating and doing things that we’re pretty good at. But what we really desire and what we really want and deserve. And our best expression of self in life, is to live in our zone of genius. And this is an area where we’re doing things that are uniquely fitted to us. And also, place is a place where you can be most happy because you’re getting to express yourself and your most unique way. But so often, we think that that’s too lofty or who am I to ask for that? Or who am I to go after that. And so, we do these sneaky little forms of self-sabotage, that keep us small, and drinking is one of the most prevalent upper limit ways that we upper limit ourselves.


And I think that we owe it to ourselves to turn on to that, and an ask, is that possibly what I am doing? Am I keeping myself small? Because I don’t believe I’m worthy or capable or deserving of my full greatness, my potential, and the amount I just like, will not stay on for that anymore.


Casey McGuire Davidson  11:13 

Yeah, absolutely. And so, I wonder I have my own ideas about this about sort of societal conditioning of women to be liked and accepted. Yeah. But what do you think goes into that upper limit problem, and that self-sabotage?



Absolutely a little bit of this, like, play nice, be small, be acceptable, don’t be too loud. Don’t be too much. Don’t be too this to that. Don’t be too successful, or a man will never want you or you’ll intimidate people or people will call you a bitch or whatever. So, one other way to keep ourselves a little subdued. I wouldn’t say drinking definitely didn’t make me more, do more. But it definitely kept me from, you know, in everyday life, for being as capable as I wanted. So, if anything, like drinking when I was drinking allowed me to kind of like buck the social norm and be a little louder and more gregarious. But the after effect was in my everyday life that I was always, as you said, dulled down a little, I was always in, you know, I was drinking, probably Friday, Saturday, Sunday. But at the end of the day, if you and I like matched up to what we were drinking in a week, it probably was equal because I was really hitting it hard for those three days. And then I always had this kind of like, dull buzz over my life. I felt, you know, but I didn’t. The thing is Casey, I didn’t realize it until I stopped feeling it after I’d been alcohol free for a while, how like, diluted, and fuzzy and uncreative and uninspired I had been, I just got used to that was my new normal, that was my baseline. And it was a pretty low baseline, to accept, and we’re all capable of so much more. And women especially, you know, we just, we lower our own baseline to meet social standards and to be accepted and to be liked. And again, I’m taking a stand for no more of that. That’s crazy. You deserve so much more.


Casey McGuire Davidson  13:10 

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it’s something that I see not just with women who drink a lot in terms of settling for less and sort of convincing themselves that this is good enough. I didn’t actually start out Sobriety Coaching. I went back to coaching school, because it was something that I was passionate about, and realized that like, I didn’t want to do my job and live in corporate and you know that my priorities for eight hours, nine hours of every day being about selling more things. You know, I thought the things that I was selling was really good, but it wasn’t something I’m passionate about. But you know, there are realities of adulting. Right. A lot of people, you know, you have a mortgage, you have responsibilities. I had kids, I had, I was the primary breadwinner. I had sort of signed up for that. When my husband decided to become an educator. And I saw a lot of women where I work like, basically every woman in her 40s. I knew who was doing really well and it’s sort of done, everything she had been taught would make her successful and we’re sort of struggling with this. Is this what being an adult is and is responsible, kind of putting your head down for another decade till you your kids go to College and then you get to do what you want to do.


I mean, it’s actually one of the reasons I named My show, Hello Someday. With the idea of like, your “Someday” can start today. You don’t have to abandon everything. We’re take that, you know, throw out your career and your ability to pay your bills, you know, and your marriage or your kids, but like, you don’t have to also settle for this.



Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that’s so good. Like, I mean, how many of us have that dream or that desire that we call our “someday” when goals, so you know, somebody when the kids move out someday. When I’m out of debt someday, when blah, blah, blah. And that, I mean, my observation is that, that someday, can happen so much more quickly. If you just stop conforming, get out of your own way, stop doing everything that you were told you needed to do to be good, right? Popular, monetizable, abundant, whatever. And asked, like, what if what I really wanted was actually not only possible, but well within reach, if I stopped weighing myself down, and that’s what we do with alcohol, we tether ourselves to the ground, we tether ourselves to a set point and make ourselves incapable of doing anything beyond that. And, you know, I’ll tell you, just from my perspective, as someone who grew up single parent family, very, very underprivileged, aside from the fact that, you know, I’m a white woman that that definitely has a certain level of privilege, but we didn’t have any, you know, financial, I didn’t have any financial windfalls or, you know, connections that helps me get to where I was, I’m a self-made woman, and I’m very proud of that. And yet, those are things that have me believe that the things that I really wanted, like to write a book, or to have my own business, or, you know, to follow certain dreams, I thought, Oh, yes, someday, when that must be nice, but I can’t do that right now. Because that’s irresponsible or impossible. And all of the things that I wanted, so badly six, seven years ago, happened within the course I’ve been alcohol-free since January 1, 2017. So almost 7 years, all of the things that I wanted to have come to fruition in those 7 years. And now I get to dream new dreams. And that’s pretty freakin cool. I except I haven’t been on Oprah yet. But this is close enough for now. Casey, you’re my Oprah today.



Casey McGuire Davidson 

Hi there. If you’re listening to this episode, and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit.


The Sobriety Starter Kit is an online self study sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step by step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one on one coaching. And the sobriety starter kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it. And when it fits into your schedule. You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time.

This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step by step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking, from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better. You’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach, you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course 


Casey McGuire Davidson  17:23 

Okay. And we were just talking about this before, we jumped on the call. But you know, I am, you know, we have very different approaches. And I love that I truly believe that one of the most important things that you can do, when you’re quitting drinking is really fine. The person that speaks to you, and speaks to you in a positive way, where you can look at giving up this thing that you love, and yet is dragging you down. Yeah. In a way that’s not punitive, but exciting with curiosity. And at the same time, it is scary, right to step out of the mold, there’s so much conditioning in society that I hope and see changing, but that the only people who give up drinking are people who had a quote unquote, “serious” problem with it. And that they’re not like,



yeah, yeah, it that is I agree that is, and that’s one of the reasons honestly, you know, I talk about this, in my book is one of the reasons that I kept drinking for so long was that I couldn’t see myself reflected in any of the stories that were available at the time for me eight or nine years ago. And so, I googled, do I have a drinking problem? I took the quiz, I asked my therapist, and everyone reflected to me. No, you’re just a you know, there’s nothing exceptional about your relationship with alcohol maybe just cut back a little bit. And those were the most damning words for me, because I just wanted someone to give me the permission slip.


As you know, I’m a badass, I can pave my own way. But for this specific thing, I felt like I needed permission to quit like and to not say, I have a problem or go to 12 steps or go to AAA and there weren’t quite yet teachers on the scene that were talking about alcohol and sobriety from, from a positive focus. There was a lot of, you know, alternative approaches coming on the scene at the time to 12 steps, but most of them so we’re talking about recovery, and I am, for better or worse. I’m just really stubborn Casey. And every time I read that, I was like, well, that’s not me. That’s not me.


I even, you know, I’m a student of Gabrielle Bernstein. And for anyone who has read her work, you know, one of her my favorite books of hers is Spirit Junkie, but she talks about how she was addicted to alcohol and cocaine, and that the day that her life changed for the day that she decided to get clean, but even the semantics of a dick Did clean. And like those were just I was just like, well, that’s not me, you know, and I don’t even do cocaine. So, I guess my flannel, no laptop for me either. And I was finding all of these excuses to keep myself stuck in this pattern that I knew in my heart was not working. And what I wanted so badly was for someone to say to me, all I’m going to say to you now, which is you don’t need to have a problem with alcohol for it to be a problem in your life. And if an alcohol in any way is holding you back from living the life that you desire, and from you being the best version of you, then it’s a problem. And that doesn’t mean you have a problem, it means that you have an opportunity, you have an opportunity to make a bold decision.


And I think that being alcohol-free is still a very brave decision. Even with it becoming very popular, it can still feel very isolating, because we’re people who are on the cutting edge. So that means we’re going to feel a little you know, anyone who’s ever been on the cutting edge has felt a little ahead of their time. And I also think that’s really cool. I think it’s really cool. Because guess what, you could either do it now and make that decision for yourself. Or you could wait 10 years down the road and wonder why didn’t I do this earlier? And I would much rather you feel a little awkward, but also a little fucking powerful than feel regretful 10 years down the road.


Casey McGuire Davidson  21:17 

Yeah, absolutely. And I would say that anyone listening to your podcast, which is named unbridled potential, or reading your book, or listening to this show, is already starting to do this work. And it does take effort, you know what I mean? Like we’ve been conditioned our whole entire lives to believe that alcohol is a wonderful thing and a reward and privilege of adulthood and that you will be missing out if you don’t drink.



Yeah, it’s I mean, honestly, as you said, that I’m like, it’s kind of a punishment of adulthood when I look at it now. And I missed out on so much more as a drinker than I had and will ever miss out on as an alcohol free person. And maybe that sounds a little like Pollyanna or rose colored glasses of me. But truly the things that I have gotten to experience in full force, since being alcohol free, are far more beautiful and far more magnificent and absolutely outweigh any of the repetitive, same old, same old things that were happening when I was drinking, you know, can you relate to that? Like, I can’t think of a moment as a drinker that was like, so profound that I’m so glad I have that experience. And if it was, it was a coincidence that I just happened to be drinking. It wasn’t because I was drinking it that I had that experience. It was because it was I happened to be drinking at the time and the experience just happened.


Casey McGuire Davidson  22:49 

Yeah. And I have to say I was definitely a gray out slash blackout drinker. It isn’t even the ethereal or Pollyanna that I literally was missing out on amazing things. Yeah. Because, you know, for example, multiple times, like, my husband and I, when you know, my kids were really young, right? It is a draining and fantastic experience. Kids, your life changes a lot. We got the opportunity because my mother in law was in town with other friends with kids, like everybody was like, How is this happening? We feel like we’re like in our 20s Again, to on New Year’s Eve, go to a friend’s house and like sleepover, right? Like, pretend that we were without children. And I drank a lot. I do not remember the end of the night. I know I didn’t make it to midnight, my husband had no one to Kiss at Midnight. And I woke up in the morning not only feeling like garbage, but truly embarrassed. And I had completely missed this thing that I had been looking forward to for the longest time like being with the people I love and having the coolest time and so that was literally missing out on a cool experience.



Absolutely! Like you. You not only did you tip out early because guess what? I go. I’m going to have an early exit. You know, I don’t have a standard I used to have, but you maybe would have been present longer and you miss you miss it in time and in presence and that sucks to have that like anxiety that I’m sure you experienced the next day that sense of regret and remorse and like my friend Maureen and I used to call it this sadness. It was just this like gray veil that was over you for a day or a couple of days after you drink, and it is gross. I don’t like that feeling and do I still get like sad or like anxious or sometimes regretful now? Sure, absolutely. I definitely get like vulnerability hangovers or things like that. But at least it’s from me being the realest version of me that’s available. And it’s so much they’re so much more fleeting than they were before. And I can say that I’ve been present for so many more beautiful things just even as simple as you know, I started to like the heyday of my drinking days, I lived in Missouri, I lived in southwestern Missouri. And it’s a beautiful place. It’s absolutely gorgeous, except for you know, the months when it’s like covered with slush, snow, but even then, it’s kind of pretty, but I can’t tell you how many like trails, and lakes and outdoor things that I didn’t even ever even fathom exploring, because that wasn’t cool or fun, or something we would do with drinking. And I had to have missed out on so many beautiful and really like grounding, connected experiences that I just completely bypassed is even a possibility because I was too, too busy stuck in some dingy asked bar to go out and explore all of the beautiful things that were available to me. And I bet I would have had a much better time had I been doing that instead. But now I get to now I get to do those things all the time and enjoy them instead of being stuck in a gross dingy bar.


Casey McGuire Davidson  26:21 

Yeah, and one of the things I did like, a lot in your book is you do talk about, you know, it, sometimes you’re bored. And, you know, being with yourself. And there is like it isn’t all sunshine and roses. But you’re also not doing that self-sabotage and feeling, you know, anxiety and feeling that, you know, thing that you’re like, I’m not living up to my potential. But tell me about that time of boredom. Because I think that’s something that trips up a lot of women,



oh, so much because it is uncomfortable at first, if you’ve always been filling every ounce of your free time with being slightly diluted and tapped out and fuzzy. Once you sit and experience the space of boredom, it’s going to feel really confronting because you know what else happens? In boredom cases, that’s when you’re most tender and vulnerable emotions come up. That’s when those things that you’ve been running from healing and working on, tend to like creep up to the surface and want to have some conversation space in your brain.


So of course, boredom is going to feel uncomfortable, but that’s also where you have the largest potential to grow and heal and nurture yourself and give yourself some of the kind of inner child parenting that you need or the sole love and attention that you need instead of just checking out and escaping.


And so, for me, I found that boredom was this really sacred space of one learning just to be alone and be okay with that. Learning to sit with my emotions, be they really excited and happy because that’s uncomfortable, too. If you’ve never really felt pure happiness and bliss, even something that is joyful, can feel uncomfortable, let alone and dealing with grief, and sadness and loneliness and heartbreak. And these are all emotions that I’ve had the opportunity to sit with in sobriety and it’s really powerful and I feel a more confident version of myself because I haven’t had to flail and reach for ways in which to escape that like ensure have I maybe Sue myself with food? Yes, we love a chocolate cake. Have I maybe scrolled on social media a bit much absolutely guilty as charged. And I’ve also sat with those emotions and journaled through those emotions and cried through those emotions and as kind of pitiful as it feels in the time. It’s actually like, so freakin liberating to act to just be with yourself and let yourself feel those things instead of saying, Oh, that’s so low vibe or unsavory or achy that you’re sad. I’m like, Yeah, guess what, I’m sad. I’m sad right now. And you know, I think that Johann Hari, I think this is his quote, but the best time to be a no, actually, I think it’s Marianne Williamson. The best time to be heartbroken is when your heart is breaking. And I avoided that so much as a drinker, I avoided those feelings of sadness and, and whatever it is, whatever those negative feelings were, because I thought they weren’t cute, or they weren’t fun. And guess what? They’re just real. And sometimes we just have to be really, you know,


Casey McGuire Davidson  29:44 

I think that one of my favorite things I’ve ever read, and of course, I read this before I stopped drinking. Glennon Doyle wrote this book called Carry On, Warrior, and it’s about so much more than getting sober. But she, you know, has a chapter that says, essentially, to my friend on her day one, and she talks about the process of getting sober as being like recovering from frostbite. And, you know, says you’ve been numb for so long, and that the emotions come back. And at first they feel like tingles, but then they feel like stabbing, and you get out loss, sadness, regret, loneliness, fear, start to come back. But she’s like, you know, that’s the process of becoming real. And so many of us realize that, when you numb the bad, you also numb the good, one of the things that I love, in early sobriety, and also, I kind of miss it, which sounds ridiculous, because it’s such a difficult time. But suddenly, you sort of feel like, the world is in Technicolor, like, it’s so tender. It’s so awakening. And, you know, just I remember walking into my office where I used to walk in, in the morning, thinking, I hate my life truly like, which is ridiculous. I had a fabulous life. And I was walking in super early, had a meeting. And I saw this field that was like, covered with mist and these birds flying up. And I was just like, I love my life. It just popped into my head. And I was almost in tears. And it was just incredible. Because this was like, three months into sobriety.



Yeah, that feeling of awe and wonder, and allowing yourself to see these beautiful little images that are around you at all time and the beautiful miracles that you know, kind of, we’re just adults who we just kind of bypass we have these blinders on because we get in our head, like you kind of were with this like, Well, my life is so crummy that you’re unable you’re so focused on I just have to get through this day that I know inevitably is going to be a shit show. And you don’t see like guess what the mist and the birds and everything it was there the whole time, you just like could not see it because you were so focused on stain, kind of gray, and so are saying in that black and white. And then when the Technicolor space opened up, you It felt even more magnificent. And it almost feels like, you know, I do use the word like Pollyanna, like almost like overly blissful and joyful. But guess what, if I have a choice between that and feeling like I hate my life, I’m going to choose like the crazy optimism because that feels a lot better.


Casey McGuire Davidson  33:11 

Yeah, absolutely. And it is kind of amazing. And it’s also scary and sad. And you know, you are experiencing that upper limit. Part of you, you’re worried about what other people think of you, I should speak for myself. Yeah.


Same. Yeah. Because you’re so used to fitting in. And I know you love James Clear and Atomic Habits. And I do too. And one of the things he talks about is how important it is to up level, your social environment. And that doesn’t mean getting rid of everyone in your life. But it does mean that you need to incorporate new people where the behavior you’re trying to adopt is the behavior that is celebrated. And that’s one of the things I love about groups of people who are going alcohol-free, because they know that if you hit 12 days, that is probably the longest you’ve gone it alcohol-free and possibly yours. I know that was true for me.




Yep. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think that you know, surrounding yourself, it doesn’t mean you have to ditch your friends, but it means that you might want to create a new vision for what those friendships look like. And also, and part of that is to allow yourself to be in groups of people who lift you up and celebrate you and cheer for you in this new way of life. Because even though your friends your existing friends might not be I hope I really hope that they are not what are all of our biggest fear are, is that they’re like nagging In essence, trying to sabotage us and talk us back into that old way. But even if they aren’t, the reality is that they might not quite yet be sophisticated enough to have the conversation to know how to cheer for you. And sometimes we have to go find other people, sometimes we have to hire other people to cheer for us. And I actually think that that’s a really intelligent thing to do.


I was, you know, talking with a friend earlier about, you know, how sometimes we don’t know how to support someone through something until we’ve gone through it ourselves. And so even though our existing friends might have the best of intentions, it would be crazy for us to expect for them to know how to support us in this like, huge life transition, that we’re making going alcohol free, when they, they’re probably scared of shit about me now like about that possibility themselves. So why not outsource that like encouragement to another group of people, whether it is a new group of people at a gym, who are just a little more wellness focus, or joining a group like you or Iran, where you get to be around like minded individuals who are pursuing this exact path at the same time? Like I think, yeah, surrounding yourself with new people can be such a helpful leg up for you.


Casey McGuire Davidson  36:13 

Yeah, doing it on your own is both the hardest part and the most lonely part. And it also, I mean, it’s even more difficult, or I would say, equally difficult. If the person who is fearful of you changing or almost trying to, consciously or unconsciously, like pull you back into where you were, is your spouse, or your significant other or your family, and you know, whether or not it is positive for you or for them, whoever you’re in relationships with. It’s working for them in some way. I mean, I know I had really poor boundaries, you know, I was a people pleaser, I put up with a lot, and not even bad stuff, but just didn’t advocate for what I wanted and needed, because I felt guilty. Or I felt like, I wasn’t showing up as my best self. So, it’s okay, if other people don’t show up is there,



a lot of slack there? Oh, and the thing is, like, oh, especially for people pleasers like I, I know that a lot of the women who I work with identify as past current or recovering people pleasers. And one of the shittiest ways that we like, lean into that people pleasing is drinking, just so other people won’t feel more awkward around us or drinking because we feel like we’re supposed to, or we have to in a situation when we really don’t want to. And doing that so that our partner or our friends, or whoever feels more comfortable. That is one of those things where it is it’s really helpful to have someone help you set that boundary, not only with yourself, but with other people as well, because it’s just as much of a boundary that you set with yourself as a boundary that you have to express to other people.


And oh, yeah, you hit the nail on the head, that can be one of the most uncomfortable things to do. And having someone to guide you and hold your hand through that can be really helpful. And I offer a lot of scripts and suggestions around that and my book, because I know that sometimes just starting the conversation, you and I like, I have a Coach and I have people who support me in my life. Because even in the moments where I could advise 1000s of people on the topic, when I have to take a piece of my own advice. I’m somehow flailing for, like what to do. And so, just having someone give you the simplest reminder of hey, why don’t you start off with this sentence and let the conversation flow from there is so helpful to set those new boundaries.


Casey McGuire Davidson  38:54 

Yeah. And I think that that mindset shift and sort of borrowing that confidence from other people and surrounding you with that shifts as you move through your life. I know that in the beginning, obviously I needed to do it with stopping drinking my fears, other people’s fears about how our relationships might change. And then I needed to do it and do a lot of work around leaving my corporate job, like, What would people think of me, would I be successful? All those fears about that, and then about putting myself out there as a sobriety coach, like, even I mean, it’s so funny because my husband’s best friend who I’ve known for 20 years, said to my husband, you know, they’re both in education, but he and his wife is a really high profile, successful lawyer, when I was becoming a Life Coach. I didn’t even want to say that term because I was like, What even is that? Like, that’s not a quote unquote, “real job”. He said to my husband, I thought, Life Coaching was for people who couldn’t hack it in the corporate world. And like, that was my worst fear of what people think of me. And so, you know, then it was about putting myself out there.


As a Sobriety Coach, I was even worried about what people in the sober world would think of me because I’ve been alcohol-free for 4 years, and they’ve been alcohol-free for a decade, like who is that? question? Hmm.



That is, you know, I think that the “Who am I?” piece can get us, no matter where we are, especially if we’ve been subconsciously playing small. There’s like, we all have these big dreams that seem outrageous or unattainable or scary. And in sobriety, especially, like, if you’ve been somewhere, it just keeps us stuck in imposter syndrome, honestly, because it keeps us stuck in a persona that we’ve created to make everyone else happy. And there’s certainly parts of that persona that are really amazing, and probably parts of ourselves that we disowned, that alcohol allows us to bring to the surface. But the reality is that for what alcohol gives you or allows you to bring out It’s stifling down so much more. And all you needed was a couple of, you know, people to say, Hey, it’s okay to dream, this dream, it’s okay to do this, it’s okay to you know, go against the grain, or buck the system.


And I think, honestly, sobriety makes all of those other goings against the grain easier, because sobriety is the most mundane and mediocre, quote unquote, normal thing you can do. So if you can break free of that socially acceptable thing, then it makes it so much easier to break free as so many of the other socially acceptable things that we take on as part of our personality, like working a corporate job, and, you know, instead of starting your own business, like, I think that it probably, sobriety set you up and me up, certainly for being more brave and bold in other areas of my life, because I’m like, shit, if I can do this, this is my superpower already. Like, what else could I do? And I think doesn’t


Casey McGuire Davidson  42:22 

have to be just so people are listening to this. First of all, you don’t need to know what your thing is. I certainly didn’t, it’s to decide that this isn’t good enough. And do that without knowing what’s next. And without deciding forever. Just being, like, you know what, I know what my life looks like, and feels like drinking. Yeah, I’m curious enough to see how I feel without it. And also like, not, you know, some of my clients are like, Oh, my God, do I need to quit my job in like, like, my own thing? And I’m like, Absolutely. Not like, oh, some of my, my clients, you know, they’re like, I want to live a peaceful, quiet life. And um,



yes, yeah, yeah, we need all types of people. And I think that that is, especially when you have women like us who did you know, we are extreme situations where we not only were, we shook up the entire system, like, I mean, I had just left my home state that I lived in for 29 years of my life. So, I like, move to a new place, like I like just completely mixed up my life completely, and as a part of my awakening process, but maybe you are in the job that you want to do right now. But maybe you can climb a step higher on the ladder or express yourself in a different way. Or maybe your job is completely fine. And it’s your relationships, or the way that you’re showing up, that’s unfulfilling.


For me, it was a lot of things in my life that just were not congruent. But it could be, you know, this is a buffet, it could be pieces off of the salad bar that fit your specific desire in life, you don’t have to completely blow up and change everything. But you and I are unique examples of people who, Yeah, we were unfulfilled by our corporate life, we were meant for something bigger, and something bigger than we were able to achieve. They’re not. I’m not going to. I’m not going to say better, bigger in terms of our expression, and we need all types of people.


We need people who want to have the structure of a corporate job because that’s what’s keeping so many pieces of our economy and our world going and we need people who are ready to step into a dream that they had said someday when and actually take hold of that dream and go after it. And I mean, I can’t say enough sobriety is the fastest path there for people who are people who are listening to a podcast like this sobriety is absolute your fastest path there.


Casey McGuire Davidson  44:53 

Well, let’s start at the beginning. Or people who are just I’m starting to think about, alright, maybe I can do this. You mentioned scripts. So, if someone is in that place of a little bit of fear, anxiety, they’ve got a lot of beliefs about what their life will look like and what people might think and, and what might change when they take a break from drinking, even like how to talk to people give us a couple of talking points that they could use. Yeah, well,



I think that first I want you to get clear with yourself is what do you what is your sense? What is your feeling around this. And it can be as simple as what you just said, which is, I already know what my life looks like, as a drinker. And I’m ready to see what it could look like otherwise, or I don’t like how I feel right now, I don’t feel good. I want to try and feel differently. And so once you get clear on that, I think just communicating that to yourself and getting really solid on really like this, I already know what this is. And then sharing that with someone else is just, you know, it can be as simple as, hey, I’m not drinking right now. Because I don’t like the way it feels. And I want to see if I can feel better. And that’s it because people cannot argue how you feel because that’s a personal internal thing. And it’s so much easier to say that then I’m not drinking right now, because I’m trying to lose weight, or I’m trying to did it, it’s because I feel something. I feel not good. And I want to feel better. And anyone who tries to argue that someone you need to reconsider in your life.


And I just think that it’s such a powerful thing to share your vulnerably your feelings or your experience. And guess what all else Casey, you don’t have to share it with anyone, you can just stop and not tell anyone. But I think that for most of us were compelled to share a little bit. And, and having just a little script of I’m not drinking right now because of this. Because of this way that I feel. And this other way that I like to feel is so powerful. And it’s in arguable. And I think that if you can come up with an inarguable way to share what you’re doing. It will feel so much more like confident and concrete, not only to you, but to the person you’re sharing it with.


Casey McGuire Davidson  47:11 

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, what I said to people was, I’m doing 100 Day alcohol-free challenge. It’s going to be hard for me, I’ve had, you know, you know, I love drinking, and which I honestly did, it was definitely a love hate relationship. And once I got going, you know, including within the first two weeks, I think people play off how you present it. I said, You know what, I’m noticing I’m sleeping better. And I have left, less anxiety. And I have more energy, and just saying was, which was completely and totally true. And that’s all you have to say. And again, like you said, Anyone who pressures you to drink when you say, Oh, I will realize that by not drinking, I have less anxiety and more energy. What’s up with that? Yeah,



I think that it’s about their own discomfort and unfamiliarity with the concept. And anytime, especially if you use to do drinking with someone, when you say we used to do these things together, and I’m not doing it anymore, you imply to them, even though you’re not saying that this thing is wrong, and it’s bad, and therefore you are wrong and bad. And they quickly pick that up. And even your friends with the best of intentions. It can feel like a dig, even though you’re delivering it with this, I feel so much better. I feel I’m really enjoying this. I’m sleeping better. It brings up this, this sense of possibility for them that makes them uncomfortable. Because it’s saying, hey, if I can do this, then you can too. And then they’re like, oh, oh my gosh. And they start reeling with all of the fears that you’ve been playing out for months and months and months, all of a sudden in that one moment.


And so, I think that when people, you know, there are people out there who just are dicks, and some people just are just going to be rude. However, I’d like to believe that most of your friends that you have good, you know, connections, and most of your friends aren’t that and that they just maybe have poor bedside manner and they’re not the best at thinking on their feet. Because how could you if you can barely even explain as a newly sober person, why you are testing the waters? How could you expect them in a split second to pick up that message? It would be a friend with really great bedside manner to do that. And we all deserve and probably have at least one of those friends, but most people are going to receive that message a little bit awkwardly. And they might say the wrong thing. Or they might go into Oh yeah, I totally thought about that. But and they’ll start over explaining or oversharing These are common things when you confront someone with something that they’ve kind of been maybe avoiding thinking about they just like verbal omit a little bit. And that’s okay. That doesn’t mean that what you said is wrong, or what you’re doing is wrong. It just means that people are learning how to have this conversation and you’re at the forefront of it and just have grace have grace for other people. And don’t let their wonky bedside manner deter you, I think that would be one of the biggest pieces of advice that I could give is that just stay your course, even if everyone isn’t quite yet ready to receive the information that you’re sharing with them?


Casey McGuire Davidson  50:27 

Yeah. And I think it’s just helpful to know that you’re going to encounter sort of three different reactions. This is what I found. Two, stopping drinking. One, I was amazed at even drinkers who like just shrug. Like, you know, I went to a bar with coworkers, I happen to be standing with a guy who I didn’t know that well from our New York office at the bar ordering. And he was ordering, you know, a cocktail and asked me, oh, are you going to get that too? And I was just like, No, actually, I stopped drinking two months ago. And I’m going to have this. And he was like, Oh, cool. Like, I literally could not care less. And I was just a little bit, you know, both you don’t want to talk about and you’re like, how the hell can you just shrug? This is like, the biggest thing I’ve ever done in my life. And you’re going to find people who pressure you who are like, Oh, my God, what’s up? How long? Are you doing this forever? That is all about their own relationship with alcohol completely. And I used to be that person.


Yep. So, I’ve got a lot of empathy for it. And my favorite people, are the people who you can tell are genuinely curious, who say, Oh, I’ve been thinking about that, or how hard is it? Or? That’s cool. Tell me more. And those are really the only people who I truly tell more about it and not in a pressure freeway. Just be like, yeah, it was really hard. But it feels good.



So good. Yeah. And I think that’s so cool to have those experiences too. And to know that you don’t owe anyone an explanation. And also, you can be someone’s permission slip. Because think of all those people, Casey who, you know, were just a little curious, but didn’t quite know what to Google or who to reach out to, and you were there like guidepost just by coincidence, like, that’s really cool, too. And that doesn’t mean that, you know, for those of you listening that you like, or need to or must, you know, guide anyone towards sobriety and definitely, we don’t want you to be like out there, like batting people over the head with it. Like, that’s not going to help many people. But if someone is curious, please, like, you know, the most powerful thing you can do is offer them that kind of had to, like, come along with me if you would like some support or some encouragement. And that’s, you know, that’s, I think that what we’re doing when we listen to a show like this, or we have these conversations, or we read a Quit Lit book, or we, you know, we listen to a podcast, it’s just extending the conversation.


And even something as small as rating and reviewing this podcast or reviewing my book actually helps accelerate that message. That’s a way to extend like and elevate the message. Because I think about, you know, I wrote my book for the version of me 10 years ago, who was looking for a solution, but too afraid to ask anyone and just needed something to pop up on my search bar or pop up on my Instagram feed to give me the permission slip. And that’s, that’s who I want to receive my message. And the more that you as a listener, share, or just engage with your own curiosity. It just elevates the message it like, it, like bumps it up in the cosmic algorithm and makes it a more popular topic of conversation right to where a past version of you gets the message when they need to hear it. And I don’t know if that makes any sense. But I think that’s so powerful, like just your willingness to be vulnerable, or to be curious, is making this topic more accessible to people down the road who need to hear it and are a little afraid and scared.


Casey McGuire Davidson  54:28 

Yeah, absolutely. And there’s so much I would love to talk about one of the things that I’m a fan of, and I actually wanted to hear more about it because I’m not sure I completely understand it, is you write about archetypes and abstainers, or moderators, and which I believe was by Gretchen Rubin.



Yes. Yes. Oh, sorry. We started off with that. I want to wrap back around to it but thank you for like redirect TV because sometimes I’ll go off on my own little, little stroll here. And this is this is a really important thing to understand because you know, Gretchen Rubin came up with this archetypal, you know, if you like anything like Myers Briggs or even if you like Astrology, you identify with a type. And that helps you understand innately better how you operate. This might be helpful for you. Because we put, especially if you’re one of those folks like me, and Casey, who maybe fought your sober curiosity for a while, and really, you know, I wanted to be a moderate drinker. That’s what I went into this, this journey with my whole that was my holy grail, my set point. And the reality is that if I was intended, if I were naturally a moderator, I wouldn’t have had to try and force myself into the moderation bucket.


And so, Gretchen Rubin posits that there are people who are moderators, they naturally moderate everything. And that’s just easy for them. And they do better when they get to make a decision of do I, how am I engaging with this substance, this food, this whatever at this time, like that is actually really exhilarating and helpful for them? And then there are people like me who are an abstainer, who if given the choice, it is so much easier for me not to have to do the mental work of deciding yes or no, when, and how much and how do I control, quote, unquote, this thing, this relationship, so if you are naturally a moderator, you probably are already moderating alcohol. And it’s never been a big deal, right? And that that goes with anything like it could we could be talking about like cookies or sandwiches, if you are naturally an abstainer, you are an all or nothing person. And it is probably easier for you to say, not at all than to try and figure out how to integrate this habit, this thing into your life.


So, for me, like, if you take me to a party, and you say you can have one cookie, there’s a plate of cookies, or you can have no cookies, if I want to not eat cookies, I better just have no cookies, because once I started going down the hill, I’m going to try the chocolate chip, I’m going to try the M&M, I’m going to try to snickerdoodle like I just, I’m all or nothing. So, I’m going to go all in. And I found that understanding those two archetypes made it so much easier for me because it didn’t mean then that I had a problem. I was just someone who could be more successful on this journey, if I didn’t try to moderate but I tried instead to abstain. And once I wrapped my head around that I was like, Oh, this is actually a superpower in the way that I operate. I’m an abstainer. And that takes this whole world of of little questions that were running in my head out of the question I didn’t have to worry about it was not a problem anymore. And it freed up all this mental space as well, which was so cool.


Casey McGuire Davidson  57:37 

Yeah, absolutely. I am definitely not a great moderator. My like, yeah, I even laugh about it with friends. And I know a lot of women who also were alcohol free, feel the same way. Like I always have three different drinks in front of me like on my desk while I’m podcasting. I have like coffee water a Lacroix. I don’t know what I’m doing. You know, it’s just like for me more, it’s more. You too. I know that. Once I got going, I found that it is easier for me to have none than to attempt to moderate what I keep in my life. It was just really difficult to do that. In the spirit of manifesting Gretchen Rubin is on my dream podcast interview.


Yeah, yes, yes. And that’s because I didn’t know about this piece of her work. But what I loved is her Four Tendencies. And talking about the different types. I’ll link to it in the show notes, but I figured out that I’m definitely an obliger. Oh, yeah. Okay. I am more likely to keep commitments to other people than to myself. Yep. And there are three different types for but three other types. But once I figured that out, it made sense to me why a sober coach helped me because I needed that accountability to someone other than myself. And it’s also why a workout group gets me up for a 6am You know, workout whereas telling myself I’m going to go to the gym doesn’t.



Yeah, and I think that’s a thing. I actually was talking about this with a friend yesterday that you know, sobriety coaching I think people sometimes are hesitant to do it because it’s not sexy or whatever or you have this like bit of shame that you can’t do it yourself. But the thing is that it’s not that you can’t do it yourself. It’s that if you are someone who needs outward accountability like me and you are who thrives under outward, talented accountability, you’re just doing yourself a favor. It’s not the You can’t meal prep meal plan without a nutrition coach. It’s not that you can’t go to the gym or get fit without a fitness coach. It’s not that you can’t learn to play tennis without a tennis coach, it’s that having the outward accountability and having someone else who has the bird’s eye view while you’re stuck in the forest is so much more helpful and is going to get you to your endpoint faster. Because first of all, you’re showing up and you have someone to guide you to be accountable to and you have someone also, as a bonus, helping you overcome the stumbling blocks. And for people who are you know, and those four tendencies really do help. Like, if you are someone who basically just thrives under outward accountability. That’s why having yeah, having a sobriety coach can be really helpful. And yet, I think it’s still something people feel sometimes a little edgy about, but it can also be so powerful.


Casey McGuire Davidson  1:00:55 

Okay, I need to know which one you are.



I am also, well, I, here’s what I am, and almost every archetypal thing that you get, I am a chameleon on the cusp of a couple different things. Simon obliger. But I also have this little bit of rebel in me, which is the hardest one because it’s like they don’t know, you know, they just kind of are out on their own. But the rebel in me was the part that was like, Well, I’m not going to do it that way. Because it’s not close enough to who I am. Or it doesn’t, that doesn’t resonate with me. And so, there was there was this little bit of rebel like, I’m going to do it myself. However, if I also didn’t have a choice, Casey, I didn’t have a choice because there wasn’t anyone else. Teaching at this at this point at the level at which I resonated like Ruby Warrington was just coming on the scene with sober curious, but she wasn’t doing individualized coaching. And so, I was kind of stuck with figuring it out myself. But guess what? You people listening are not in her amazing coaches like me and Casey and handfuls of other people who are ready to help you if you are wanting support, so that you can find the one that resonates with you. There are so many different approaches, or you can find a patchwork and create your own that works for you.


I know you talked about Gabrielle Bernstein, and other people that resonated with you. For me, it was Belle’s, Tired of Thinking About Drinking, it was online sobriety groups and people who inspired me, and also Jen Sincero from, You’re A Badass. I just loved her. And you can up level the people you surround yourself with, with books and you know, podcast and they don’t all need to be sobriety related.



No, not at all most of my tools because I couldn’t find those sobriety tools that resonated with me were tools that I patch worked in together from other things, and just use my knowledge and background as a communications expert. And as a coaching someone who has been trained in coaching, like those things, I just I have the opportunity to create it for myself, but you also don’t have to. And I think that that’s so special. The space that we’re in right now in the sobriety and alcohol-free space is that there are so many amazing teachers offering a variety of different methods and approaches. And there will be one that works for you like, Absolutely. And I’m so excited for people to be able to this is just an exciting time to be sober curious, I think because there are so many options and people to encourage you.


Casey McGuire Davidson  1:03:33 

Yeah, absolutely. And I know I could talk to you forever. One phrase, I just want to ask you a couple more questions. I want to hear about where people can follow up and find you and grab your book. You use the phrase the finish the session I’m going to say it wrong fetish hard word I had to say no matter my audio, but I’m so embarrassed that I can’t pronounce it correctly. So, you tell me but it’s a phrase I haven’t heard before.


Yeah, it’s difficult the fetishization of moderation. When I when I had to read my audio book, I’m like, Why the hell did I write that? There were a couple of phrases. I’m like, Why did I use that word? This is hard as hell to say. So, we fetishize moderation, even bigger. And we make it seem something that is like, so seductive and perfect and sexy that like we have to get to that and sometimes fetishize can be a little edgy or painful even or, you know, something that can be destructive in our pursuit of it. And I think that so many of us fetishize moderation as this, this thing that we need to achieve with alcohol and if we can just get to moderation, then everything will be great. And in that way, we also make it kind of godlike, like we give it the permission to not only elevate our happiness but soothe our sadness. And when you put something give something that much power your score. Rood, really, like you are saying that you this thing, not only is helping me with my happiness, but keeping me, you know, and helping me when I’m sad. Whoa, that is you just outsource everything.


And I think that when we look to moderation as the end all be all, which is where a lot of people start with this hope that they can be moderate drinkers where I started. Oh yeah, and there’s nothing wrong with it. But I also want to burst that bubble really fast for people just so you’re not sitting there putting yourself through the wringer any longer in this kind of like, I want to say the word kinky, but I see I’ll just go down that path, this like Kiki relationship with alcohol that ultimately is not making you know, it’s not making you happy, right? And so, why keep yourself stuck any longer by trying to make it work with this substance that is obviously not working for you? Or why would you be here? And it’s no different than, you know, trying to keep around a lover who isn’t fulfilling your emotional needs. And you deserve better than that you deserve better than putting something on a pedestal or even a behavior on a pedestal that just isn’t serving you anymore.


Casey McGuire Davidson  1:06:13 

Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s the perfect place to end this. There is so much more in your book that I’ve gotten notes on, and I wanted to chat with you about that I think people should just dive in. So, tell us where people can find out more about you and connect and all the good stuff.



Yes, well, I am everywhere on the internet @amandakuda. The book is out this week. And I will say as a little goodie, if you are fast in action, I’m hosting a free live event on Saturday the seventh for anyone who’s ordered or preorder the book and all you have to do is go to my website and enter your receipt information. And you’ll get an invitation to the event. And we’re going to dive in even a little deeper on this topic at the live event. And I would love to see you there.


And also, if you read the book, I just love to hear your feedback. It’s this was such a cathartic and important process for me to create this book for you. And if you get a copy and you like it or have questions, just shoot me up, hit me up in my DMs don’t shoot the wrong word. Hit me up in my DMs and or shoot me a DM and I would just love to hear from you.


Casey McGuire Davidson  1:07:23 

Perfect and the name of the book is, UNBOTTLED POTENTIAL: Break Up With Alcohol Ad Break Through To Your Best Life. And I love the color of recovery. So, sort of like, robin’s egg blue.



Well, I will. This is another story for another time, but I didn’t even give them any I didn’t even give them any like idea of what I what I wanted or was hoping for they just came to me with a beautiful cover. And that’s such a blessing because most authors get a really hideous first draft and they just came to me with this perfect little piece, and it was such a beautiful manifestation. I’m really happy with how it turned out, too.


Casey McGuire Davidson  1:08:03 

Perfect. Alright, thank you so much for being here and good luck with the book launch.



Thank you.




Thank you for listening to this episode of The Hello Someday Podcast. If you’re interested in learning more about me or the work I do or accessing free resources and guides to help you build a life you love without alcohol, please visit hellosomedaycoaching.com. And I would be so grateful if you would take a few minutes to rate and review this podcast so that more women can find it and join the conversation about drinking less and living more. 


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