Well, so tell us about how you know you work with women in your coaching practice and help them sort of heal themselves emotionally and discover what is that new phase of life for them? What are they excited about?

Yeah, so usually when I, women come to me, they’re, they’re just stuck there in they’ve maybe, you know, six months post divorce. Or for some women, it’s four or five years post divorce, there’s sort of no right time to work with me.

It just depends on where they are, but they usually stuck. And they know that they can see the other side, but they can’t figure out how to get there. And a lot of times, it’s because they haven’t really taken that active part to heal.

I think sometimes we get fooled by thinking healing is passive, give it time, you know, it will just come, you’ll be ready when you know it.

But there are some active ways you can heal when you’re processing all the stuff you’re going through and acknowledging the stuff you’ve gone through and how that’s made you stronger. And you get to rewrite your story at this point.

So the first part that I don’t require women that I work with to be completely sober, if they’re still drinking, that’s okay. I do ask them to maybe like for the 12 weeks that we’re working to really either sort of go into that sober, curious space where they maybe don’t drink for 12 weeks, or I help them to really start noticing when they’re drinking or why they’re drinking or how they’re drinking.

It’s just one piece of the work that I do. Like, I’m not a sobriety coach. So if women don’t come to me to get sober, but it’s a piece that I kind of help explore with, with with my clients, because I think it is a big thing. We think it’s an answer to the divorce thing, like to our loneliness to our next stage. I think it just, it stops us.

Casey McGuire Davidson  17:30

And I think like, at least in my coaching practice, like I do, you know, one of my favorite things is transitioning women from sobriety coaching to life coaching, because there’s so much underneath, and I can assume it’s the same way with divorce. Like, there are reasons we drink, right? There are a million reasons why we started to rely on alcohol, and then got sucked in to the addictive qualities of it. But it’s really hard to uncover that if you were thinking about drinking, drinking and recovering from it, you actually need to get some distance from alcohol because it dominates so much of your, your thoughts and your habits and your free time and your mornings. So with coaching, I’m like, okay, you need to get away from the drinking cycle. And let me hold your hand like that. And then let’s do the awesome work that’s underneath this. So I’m sure a lot of women work with you who don’t drink as heavily as you did, or I did. Right. But if you are struggling with drinking or stopping drinking, taking that out of the equation really helps you solve all the other stuff. Oh my gosh, yeah.

 

18:39

I mean, just even go back to my own journey. I did not start healing and working through stuff until I quit drinking. There was just no way my brain was ready to, to heal in the way that it needed to do which emotionally, mentally physically, like all those things, I was just pretending that I was healing. So that absolutely, I love how you just separate those two. Yeah, and then a big part of the work that I do with women in my coaching, which is a little bit different. I use a lot of creativity in my coaching because I really, you are at this stage post divorce. When you are creating a new life, you are creating a new identity, like everything shifts. When you go through a divorce, your world is different. Some things maybe look the same. But fundamentally like everything is different. Your friendships are a little bit different. Your relationship with your family is a little bit different with the rest of the world. Like it just it sort of impacts you in all the different spheres. So I really do a lot of creativity which is nothing to be scared of. I know a lot of women hear that word creativity and they like run run away. But most of the women I work with do not identify as creatives. They come to me they’re they maybe had a bad experience in kindergarten. With a, you know, painting the sky, the wrong color, and they just, you know, shut down that creative part of themselves, but everybody is creative. So I really work on getting that out. Because to me in the sketchbook that I use and the process that I go through that is where you start to build confidence, and start to rebuild yourself as in this sketchbook, and you get to try stuff out before you go out, like into the big wide world. So to me, that’s just become such. And that’s how I really healed and worked on processing all the stuff I went through. It made such an impact on me. So I, so

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  20:37

I talked about active healing, and I really like that versus sort of just trying to heal, you know, time it takes time, right? What does that active healing actually look like, in practical terms, and I assume that creativity, and you mentioned his sketchbook is part of that?

 

20:57

Yes, absolutely. So it to me, it’s, um, I do a lot of journaling with my clients. And the idea is that they will continue that in their, in their home, you know, daily daily ish. So journaling, the sketchbook, I’m looking after your physical health, whether that’s, you know, walking around the block, or just sort of getting anything that really gets emotions and all that stuff that gets stuck in your head, like out through your body, meditation, sometimes it just really depends on the client and what they need. I don’t have like a prescription pad where I just checked, you know, like, here’s, you know, follow this to the to the letter, it’s much more like, okay, let’s see what you need where you are. But I think that they’ll any of those things that really help process and get stuff moving in a safe way, can be really good. Because when you go through divorce, your friends and family aren’t always the safe place to be or the safe place to talk to. And I think they’re similar. It’s like when you go through sobriety your friends and family sometimes, or that can be the worst people to talk to Absolutely.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  22:11

Like your mother and your sister and your best friend, they’re just almost have to close with it. Yes, you have so much embedded in whatever the relationship is, and how you look to them, that it’s really hard for them to be your honest place and your objective perspective.

 

22:29

Yep, absolutely. Yeah. Because, yeah, they bring their own opinions, their own agendas sometimes, and here you are trying to figure out your next few steps. And you know, you, you come to them, maybe you’re a super excited about something and they kind of shut you down. So I think that that is where in particular the sketchbook and having a coach to I think having a coach to go through and help you sort of rebuild and reclaim your life is so important. Because it’s hard to do it by yourself. It really is. Yeah.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  23:04

And so when you talk about starting with journaling, like are there particular topics that most women who’ve been through divorce are trying to rebuild or reclaim their life where they start?

 

23:18

There are definitely themes. Yeah, like I work on, shame and guilt are always big, huge ones, that we I think we just carry those around as women, you know, we’re always sort of being told what we’re not doing or what we’re supposed to be doing. So we do do a lot of work with shame and guilt, and letting go of the shame and guilt of going through a divorce. I mean, you know, it’s 2021, I feel like we need to leave some of that sort of old school ideas of what divorce is, and what that means if you’re a woman who’s gone through divorce, we need to leave that behind. And we need to move on. And also a lot of shame and guilt around kids, and how are my kids affected. And that’s, that’s a hard one. But I find that that comes up a lot. So we’ve worked through that, sort of like 10 gently or like on the sort of connected to that is your relationship with your acts and how that kind of comes through with your feelings and your emotions and healing that as much as we can heal that. But it’s just so there’s sort of like, at least some sort of, you know, give and take between the two of you. I don’t I don’t do couples counseling or like therapy or anything like that. But it’s that idea that you’re allowed to have your emotions, you’re allowed to work through them. And we’re going to do that together and then you can go out and hopefully have a better relationship with you know, the people that you need to

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  24:46

Yeah, and I can imagine that sort of runs the gamut of

 

24:52

boundaries, setting a better boundaries, but also anger, right anger, resentment, anger, rage. And those are really hard emotions for women to let go of, Oh, yeah, because I think we’re, we’re told we’re not supposed to be angry, or we’re not supposed to be full of rage, and you’re absolutely 100% allowed to have all those emotions. But it’s how you sometimes and where you let them out and how you let them out. So I, when I remember when I was going through my divorce mice, that’s where my sketchbook became the place where I let that go. And I have a whole exercise I take women through called rage writing. And it is it’s just you raging, you get all your rage on the page, it’s like, you know, we set the timer for five minutes. And it’s completely unedited, just dumping your rage. And the newspapers that are sitting, you know, just let that sink into our bodies after and then I’ll say, you know, get some paint out paint over it, put a beautiful image over it, like just that idea of like, okay, I needed to do that it felt so good to get that out. And now I’m going to move on.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  26:01

Yeah. And I can imagine, like having a safe place to do that, or even being encouraged to do that, right? Because it’s so much easier to come home and drown it out or to stuff it down and let it see. And, you know, I always say your emotions are valid, right? any emotion you have is real. It is just the actual stuffing down of it that lets you stop processing it. And, you know, telling yourself that it’s not okay. You know, of course, it’s like how do you let that out in a safe place? And what are healthy coping tools. But you know, the all those emotions, they’re just red flags, that something needs to be addressed. Right, resentment, anger hurt, loneliness. It’s like I always think of it. It’s like the canary in a coal mine. Like, hey, there’s something here that needs to be addressed.

 

26:56

Yeah, I was just talking to a friend today about this idea of pay attention to what pisses you off. Because that’s like a really big signal like that. Hey, maybe I should look at that, because it just keeps coming up. And if I don’t deal with it, yeah, it’s just gonna fester.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  27:12

And there’s even like this emotion, we’ll I actually have it in my own last verse. Because whenever you want to drink, you know, the first question I asked women is, are you hungry? Have you eaten? Because that’s like the biggest trigger. But the second one is, why do you want to drink? What emotion Are you feeling that is making you want to drink and it could be, I want to celebrate, I’m proud. I’m excited. I can’t wait to see my friends. And it could be loneliness, resentment, overwhelm, all that stuff in there actually different solutions, other coping tools for every single one of them. But the first step is, okay, what’s the actual emotion that I’m feeling? Is it social anxiety? Right? Because, right, or is it toolbox? And we’re so used to like using a hammer, which is bottle of wine bottle of wine? Oh,

 

28:01

my gosh, yes. I love that. I mean, I love that image. That’s exactly what it is. It’s like a one stop shopping thing, or the one solution. And you when you dig down into it, it doesn’t it’s not getting you anywhere, you’re just stuck.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  28:15

So you talked about rebuilding, and reclaiming. And I know the first step you said, that you work with women is shame, and guilt and anger and rage. And once you kind of get through that, that portion, what’s next?

 

28:33

Then we sort of move into like that authentic authenticity piece. And who are like, Who are you? Who were you? before? Somebody told you who you had to be like, Who are you, you know, before? And I think sometimes we go back to like, pre marriage and even pre kids like, Who were you like, what did you love to do? Like, what were your things that made you happy? What made you sad? What did you want to be when you grew up, like all those things that just get, you know, hidden under layer after layer, right? As you sort of take on everybody else’s baggage? Yeah, as you go through your life, like your stuff gets washed down. So we do a lot of work with sort of peeling all those layers off. And then we see what we see what we get to. And then there’s different different ways at the end of that process to sort of figure out where you want to go next.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  29:24

I love that because I mean, I do a lot of work around core values and getting through what are your actual values? What do you actually care about in your life versus which ones have you adopted that were never really yours? They came from your parents or they came from society, they’re telling you what’s important and what you should value and achieve in your life. And it’s definitely going back to like what originally made you happy and the idea of like, unbecoming, you know, Rene brown talks about the midlife unraveling, but It’s like, not that you’re becoming anything. It’s actually your unbecoming everything that was never really you that you layered on to protect yourself from like criticism or judgment or you know, being ostracized. Right? Right. Yeah, absolutely

 

30:17

that and that’s so interesting because that goes back to when I quit drinking. You know about midway through that first month, I was like, This is the last piece of piece of my old identity that I need to get rid of. Like it was that powerful. I’m like, that was the old me that was like the, when I was in the marriage, me like the new me doesn’t do that anymore. And that was just a really powerful thing that just sort of came out of nowhere to me when I when I was going through it. But yeah, that those layers that are not yours to those suitcases that are not yours to carry around, right? Oh, yeah, we’re so good at just picking up other people’s stuff. And I think people pleasing comes into that, oh, yeah, and all those kinds of things where we just want everybody to be happy,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  31:03

or like overcompensating, right? You’re overachieving your pride. Even you have that guilt and shame or regret, or you feel judgments, you’re like, I am going to go so far above and beyond to be beyond reproach in other areas. And I’m saying this from knowledge, this is what I did with my drinking, that you never let yourself relax and be true to yourself.

 

31:29

That is so true. Yeah. So that that is what a lot of women because a lot of women that I work with, they are kind of some of them are at that stage in their life to where the kids are maybe in high school, or they’re going to college. So they are trying to reinvent themselves anyhow. But now, it looks different, because there’s no partner there with him anymore. So now, what are they going to do? Where are they going to end up?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  31:54

Yeah. And so what is that reinvention and rebuilding? Like? What are some of the things you’ve seen your clients do that have inspired you? Or, you know, is it more of a quiet internal process? For most people?

 

32:10

I’d say it’s about 5050. It just really depends on you know, it’s so individual I don’t, there is sort of like no dramatic unveiling at the end of it. But I feel I’ve had a few clients who one woman had always wanted to go spend a month in Bali. And she did that she ended up sort of just getting herself. You know, sometimes when you put it out to the universe, I’m not like super woowoo. But I think when you do sometimes put something out in the universe, or you you make her she ended up doing a page in her sketchbook and it was like it I think it just sort of set things in motion for her like it came out of her and surprised her that she wanted to do this. So then she ended up doing it. And then I had another woman who got back into writing, and ended up getting an essay published in an anthology. So Wow, I think it can be like a sim. I mean, not that those are simple things. But I feel like it’s those things that they’ve carried around with them for 1020 years. It’s like these dreams that you’ve never allowed yourself to have. I

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  33:12

mean, that’s actually one of the reasons that my coaching practice and my podcast is named what it is, it’s Hello, someday, yes, because there are so many things that were like, when I am able to leave my job, aka I’ve made whatever amount of money I put in my mind or when my kids are older, or when you know, all of these things happen. And it’s, you know, you can start taking small steps towards that today. And I’m a little blue in that, like, I know, just thinking of your vision boards, I know you have a garage full of vision boards, oh my god, like 25 of them. And I have three in my office. But what’s been on those vision boards continues to change. But in my mind, it’s so easy in January to say I’m going to do XYZ, right. And then life just takes over life is busy. other responsibilities, other schedules. And if you don’t have that goal, front and center, if you don’t like I used to go down to my kitchen, grab my coffee, and just sit there for a couple minutes looking at my vision board on, you know, on my kitchen counter and be like, Oh, yeah, I want to do that. It’s out in the universe, it’s front and center. And inevitably, your choices will start to be directed towards what you want, in small ways in big ways. So that Bali thing is, you know, amazing. And then I always think of these divine breadcrumbs, like roads lead onto roads. So, right, take a step towards I’m going to do this thing that kind of excites me and lights me up and it’s just for me. You can’t go there and be unchanged. It’s going to lead you to a different road. And that’s incredible. Yeah,

 

34:56

yeah. And I’ve had some women who’ve decided that they didn’t want Like didn’t want to be a lawyer anymore. I need to figure out you know, I’ve always wanted to be a teacher so putting those little student quitter job right away, but it just Chiba verbalize that and that it always been something that had been shut down in her marriage like ridiculous Why would you you know, leave your law practice. Yeah, and most of my clients you know are in their 40s 50s. That is a big powerful time for women. I think to reinvent themselves, it’s like that second, or sometimes even it’s like a third reinvention at that point, but I think that it can be and that’s why I talk about like, how divorce does not have to be soul sucking, it can be really like soul defining, if you are able to make that space for yourself. And I think being sober while you’re doing it adds that extra layer of, of just, I don’t know, yumminess that’s the word I want to say. But you know what I mean? Like, it just adds an extra layer of, of goodness to the whole thing.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  36:00

Well, it sort of forces you to expand your universe, of hobbies, and sometimes people and different, you know, just activities, like, I love that you told me which is incredible and amazing that you went to Mexico with your college girlfriends, at 30 days sober, which is amazing. And I can imagine was for a lot of people would have been I can’t stop drinking, because I’m going to Mexico with my girlfriends at 30 days. And I want you to tell us about it. But you told me that you just felt so good and so much clarity, mentally, emotionally and physically. And I feel like that’s also part of what when you walk away from alcohol, even at a really difficult time, you finally are clear enough to think through what you want and to emotionally regulate what’s going on with you. So that you can do what’s right for you. Yeah,

 

37:01

I think that was that. There’s no more hiding when you get rid of it. It’s just here you are here I am. Here’s this emotion I’m having, I better figure out a way to deal with it or to process it or talk to somebody about it or write about it or, or go for a walk about it. Like I think that there’s alcohol just hides all that and it just levels out your life. And I know I think it’s great Rene Brown who talks about how it numbs everything joy, beauty, all the good things with all the bad things that you’re trying to you know avoid. So I think that it was just a time when it was like the world felt so fresh and new in some weird way. And it was hard. It was hard and it wasn’t hard to go to Mexico with my girlfriends. Luckily my girlfriends are super cool and they’re not crazy big drinkers like I was so they were like no problem but um yeah, I was I

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  37:54

knew instead like cuz I assume every vacation you would take in previously was sort of a drinking vacation. I know mine mine all were so was there a nice trigger? No,

 

38:07

I guess I’d never been to this resort before so that helped. And I guess also the fact that my girlfriends weren’t it was an all you can drink all you can eat resort. So my girlfriends though weren’t, you know, weren’t going crazy. So that helped to we spent the whole day on the beach we ended up under. It’s called a palapa.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  38:26

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

 

38:28

We just the three of us just hung out on that palapa all day and talked and laughed. And, I mean, I did smoke two packs of cigarettes while I was there, which, you know, my mom doesn’t listen to this podcast, but um, that was just I needed I knew I needed something I guess. Yeah. But you know, and that’s what I resorted to i but i did not smoke when I continued to get home I just knew I think it’s

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  38:52

just whatever helps you get through not drinking and it was my

 

38:56

first time being with people for those 30 days I pretty much secluded myself in my house. So I was fine. When COVID had I had already gone through all that. I’m really good at just simply myself so I did that for 30 days no problem. So that was my first set of entry into the real world again. Yeah, and it was in Mexico and and all you can drink resort but um, I can just be honest with my friends and be like, this is why I’m not drinking because it’s fucking up my life and I want my life to be different. I had a harder time telling the resort people I had to I actually had to keep telling them what I was allergic to alcohol, they did not understand why wouldn’t be drinking. Yeah, so every server I had to say no, I’m allergic. Like, don’t bring it around me. So I had a hard time telling the resort staff

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  39:42

Yeah, I wasn’t drinking. Well, and it’s important to be clear with people about like, No, I don’t want anything with alcohol in it. You know, I I just love being like, I want this with no alcohol in it. And typically, they can do that. You No problem. But I can assume if there is a language barrier or something, it’s, yeah.

 

40:04

Well, the funniest thing is one day on the beach I ordered. I’m like, I’d like a virgin Margarita. And he’s like, Oh, you need a lemonade. And I was like, Yeah, I guess that’s really what I want is a lemonade.

 

40:17

Funny? Yeah,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  40:19

it’s kind of funny. I actually went out to dinner with my husband, just a couple days ago, and went to a very new Italian place. That was lovely. And I was looking at the the list and said, Oh, what great drinks do you have that are not alcoholic? I don’t drink alcohol. And so he kind of went to the, through the list. And he mentioned, oh, we can do a full mohito. And I was like, that’s awesome. non alcoholic. mohito was my absolute favorite. Yeah. And he brought it and said, oh, here’s your fake mohito. And I like turned to my husband. I was like, What the fuck? Like, why is it fake? No, but he was like, there’s a lot of education to be that. So I’m sort of, I’m sort of at the point, it just kind of annoys me. I’m like, What the fuck is wrong with these people, I find actually, that servers are way less educated and kind of clueless than bartenders, bartenders are actually pretty amazing. And I’ve had some of my best conversations with bartenders, you know, don’t recommend it going up to the bar in your early days and sitting there, but just being like, Hey, I don’t drink alcohol. What else can you make for me? And trust me, they’ve seen enough drunk people there. They’re like, Awesome,

 

41:29

cool. And a lot of them take it as a challenge. They’re like, I hear some different flavors. I

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  41:34

want to be creative and have a conversation about it. So I think that’s really cool. So I know, you also talked about a lot of the women who you work with have older kids, and are going through that, like, empty nest period of time as well. Right. Yeah, they are. And I think that that’s, um,

 

41:56

that is sometimes the piece to where I, I think that sobriety is such an important, it’s so important to bring up at that stage. I think that a lot of people, not just women, but that emptiness stage, it’s like, great, we can have wine all the time, we can, you know, we can really let go when the kids are gone. So I think, and then especially when the, you know, when you’re divorced, and you are heading into an empty nester, and my daughter is going to college this fall. So I’m, I’m almost there I got, my son is younger, so I have him still for a while. But I think that that can be a time when you’re filling up that loneliness with alcohol. So I really work with finding ways and to deal with that loneliness be for you. Before alcohol is the answer.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  42:45

Yeah. And is it I mean, I found with women who are leaving drinking behind that sort of a structure and a routine, not something that you have to do. But something that is fairly regularly on your calendar that you want to do that you can look forward to, it’s really important, because that sort of unstructured time is kind of a period of time where you’re like, I’m not doing anything, and you just haven’t discovered all the other things you could be doing.

 

43:16

Yeah, yeah, I think that time to pick, you know, it varies for every woman, right? Like sometimes the morning time is that unstructured time that where you can get into feelings of loneliness, anger, boredom, all that stuff. Or sometimes it’s after after work or after dinner. So I think that it that totally depends on the person. But I think at the time, and that’s where that authenticity piece that we work on, I work on with my clients comes into play, because that really helps them discover, Hey, you know what, I always wanted to be a vet. But maybe I can go work at you know, one woman that I know she went started working as a vet tech, are you studying to become a vet tech, because I have this time I have this, you know, space is freedom, I’m going to you know, start doing something different. So I think a lot of women, that emptiness thing can seem scary and lonely. But it can also just be again that time of reinventing and figuring out, you know, stuff for yourself. Really.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  44:17

Yeah. And what are the other Are there any other exercises you take women through to get to that authenticity or to get to that reinvention or rebuilding piece?

 

44:29

They’re really most of the ones that I do for that are all like sort of journal prompts. We spend a lot of time just sort of dumping stuff on the page. I have a lot of specific questions that get to that. We do a lot of like, you know, sort of imagining the future. What What do you wish you could tell yourself five years from now if you knew what you knew now, like that kind of a thing, sort of imagine where they are. And I think just really being honest, and I think that’s what’s so great about the sketchbook is that it You can be really honest on that page, because no one is going to see it, you know, you’re not putting on a show for somebody, you’re not trying to think of what you know, like, I never look at it, I’m not going to give them a grade or a gold star, it’s just you on that page. So you can be really honest with no, this sucks. I don’t want to be doing this anymore. Or, you know, this is where I see myself. And maybe that’s the same with the vision board. But those super ridiculous things that you think, Oh, my God, if somebody knew I wanted to do that, they’d make fun of me or whatever. But that’s your place. So you get to put whatever you want in that space.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  45:35

Yeah. And I think we don’t even realize how often we edit ourselves, and not just ourselves, but our dreams and our desires. And it starts when you’re really young, you know, there’s this, we all sort of internalized this inner critic voice from when we’re six, or seven, or eight, either from like, people at school, or our parents or just society in general, where you’re sort of taught how you’re supposed to act, what gets you social acceptance, what gets you positive reinforcement or negative reinforcement, and nobody wants to be criticized or vulnerable, or, you know, when you live with your parents, you really have zero power, especially when you’re young. So you internalize that and sort of edit everything from the people you hang out with, to your hobbies, to what jobs you pursue, to going to college or not going to college and who you marry sometimes, and not that not that all of that is bad, or that you’ve been doing that all the time. But just the the process of editing, what options are available to us based on what’s socially acceptable or what your friends think is core what you internally have thought, This is what gets me social acceptance and money and security and love.

 

46:58

Yeah, and I mean to end divorce. So I think that, that stigma around divorce that, I mean, sometimes in some groups, it’s not socially acceptable still, like, I feel that there can be a little bit of people don’t know what to do with you like, Who is this single woman? I call myself an indie Mama. I love that Mama. Because I that’s who I am. I’m not married, divorced, single, I’m an indie mom dependent.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  47:26

Right? Yeah, into categories are kind of crap. Yeah. So I think that

 

47:31

that, but that’s a big, huge part of it. And I think that that can be it’s, it is scary to reinvent yourself at age 40, or 50. But it’s also super exciting. So I think that that can just be a space that women can step into.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  47:47

Yeah.

 

47:48

But that’s I think, when you’re working with a coach, and I know, obviously, the like the women you work with sobriety, like it just makes it, someone understands you, and not everybody understands you. Post divorce. Sometimes it can be hard to relate to people who are married, or to be the only, you know, only single person at a dinner party, or sometimes not even to get the invitation to that dinner party. Because it’s a couple’s thing. And you’re not a couple who, what, what do we do with you? So I think that, and sobriety is like that, too. I think I think there’s so many parallels between the two. That’s why I talk about recovering from divorce a lot. Because I think you do have to recover from divorce or recover from your marriage, and make yourself and get yourself into that really healthy place where you can really do anything else.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  48:41

And so what are the ways that you’ve found that women have been able to work through that stigma, which I’m sure is, is very real. And sometimes it’s just because people don’t know what to say to you are what you need, you know, or they’re just like we have we’re friends with your ex, too. So how do we navigate that?

 

49:02

Yeah, I think that a lot of there’s a few different spaces, I think that women find, I mean, I think sometimes, if you’re in it, sometimes they have a group of friends who are single, so maybe who they were never married, or they knew them through work or whatever. So sometimes they can get into that group. I know a lot of women I know also, there’s a lot of meetups on that meetup.com or whatever it is that they’ll meet people that way, or be included in a group and i think that you know, those can be good because it’s just like that’s we’re going hiking on Saturday. Yeah, let everybody meet in this parking lot. So it’s not, there’s no alcohol involved, first of all, and then there’s also just like a different it’s around an interest which I think when you are in that newly divorced space, you are trying to figure out different interests or different things you like or I used to like hiking, but I don’t know if I like any more. So I think those can be really good. There’s a few things online. And I think that’s been a really good thing. I think out of COVID. I think a lot of things obviously did go online, I hope that some of them do stay online, like a lot of book clubs. And a lot of I mean, the sobriety space online is so thriving. Yeah. And it’s just nice to have that subordinate that, the more open you are, I think, to gain out of your neighborhood, or even just, you know, going to a restaurant by yourself, like I lived in New York City for 15 years. So I was used to going out to a restaurant by myself, because there would often be other, you know, single diners, this is even when I was married. Sometimes I’d go out after work if you know, my husband was traveling or something. So I think that I’m just getting yourself sort of like that courage to be like having to go sit in a movie theater by myself. And yeah, no, no one is really watching you. You know, but I think that you sort of think that everybody’s watching you, and you’re going to be the only one there. But I think just the more you do little things like that. Yeah, then that stigma starts to not be there so much, like

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  51:08

you’re really older is worse than the experience doing it. But yeah, it’s it sort of before is worse. And absolutely, yeah, I think it’s, you know, the way you describe it in terms of being open and joining things, and just sort of taking that first step is all about your world expanding, not contracting, and, you know, being proactive, not being a victim, you know, reclaiming our power.

 

51:35

Absolutely. Yeah. Like you get to decide, you know, what concert you want to go to, now that things are opening up, but then I have all this stuff in my head, like museums, or all these things you can go to and just see what happens. Yeah, well, I

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  51:49

have to say, I just went to Maui with my daughter a month ago. And I was added, we’ve never just gone on a vacation by ourselves. But it was actually lovely to not have to consider what my husband and son would want to do, where they would want to eat what schedule, you know, even they’re just moods and emotions. And I’m such a people pleaser, and kind of sensitive to other people sort of really bend over backwards to make sure there’s harmony and everyone’s happy, right. And again, it’s all that self editing. And it can be really free. My daughter and I are pretty chill. And we’re on the same wavelength. And you know, she’s seven, but you know, we’re just we kind of like the same things. And so it was really easy. And that was like, emotionally easy. And that can be lovely to write.

 

52:39

That sounds great. Yeah, I think. Yeah. And I feel like solo traveling is so like, if you go on that first trip by yourself, it’s so empowering. Like, just It doesn’t mean it can just be in a hotel room in your city. It doesn’t have to be. But I think that first post divorce trip can be so

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  52:57

yeah. And like picking the Airbnb that you want with the aesthetic you want in the town you want. I actually have always enjoyed eating by myself, I love people watching I bring a book or I bring something to read or talk to the waitress. And so I have always loved that. And I’ve also really always loved solo travel. And in fact, I know that traveling without alcohol, alcohol free vacations, alcohol free travel is a big thing that that women listening to this are interested in. They’ve told me that. So my very next interview is actually with a woman who does so we’re traveled trips and arranges them. And sort of that’s her business after she quit drinking. She quit drinking in South Korea and she loves to travel and just like adventurous but she’s doing city vacations and self care vacations and also adventurous vacations and she recovers has amazing retreats. I’m going to Mexico’s in February. I’m so excited about that. And so there’s a lot out there you can do it. Yes, your neighboring town or a place where you really want to go. And you know, few more adventurous stuff, too. Yeah, yeah. Wow. That sounds great. I love all of that. Yeah, well, so tell me I’m sure there are women who are going to want to follow you on Instagram or learn more about what you do. You know, where can people get in touch with you?

 

54:29

So I have a website, the creative, badass calm. And I have a blog on there and you can read about me and read about working with me and then I’m on I’m on Instagram the most that’s my favorite place is a visual visual art. The sketchbook is such a big part of what I do. So I love Instagram, even though the algorithm drives me crazy, but I just worked, work through it, whatever. And that’s that. Create a badass divorce on Instagram.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  54:58

Perfect and If anyone’s listening to this and is just in that really hard time of separation or divorce or sort of struggling with themselves, do you have anything you want to share with them if they’re listening,

 

55:11

I’m gonna just go back to like that one day at a time. thing like it is truly one day at a time. And it’s that one hour just putting together hours or minutes or, or days, and eventually, they add up to something. And this is not your new normal like those early days of a divorce of a separation that is not your new normal. That’s just right now, you haven’t discovered your new normal yet. So hold on, DM me on Instagram, if you need like a little extra boost. I’m super responsive on my DMS. And yeah, reach out to someone and talk to someone but this is not your new normal. Yeah,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  55:54

it gets better.

 

55:56

So much better you and you can’t even imagine that’s the whole thing when you’re in this stage. Just like early sobriety, you can’t think of anything, but you can look back and I it’s like a different person different everything you don’t you can’t even imagine where you’re going to end up or where you’re going to be in a year. So

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  56:13

yeah, in early sobriety, I always ask women to every morning when they’re when they’re sort of laying in bed in the morning, just ask themselves, how can I take care of myself today? And just kind of, it’s Christian look through, you know, you do a schedule scan, you sort of do a body and emotion scan and say, okay, am I am I tired? Am I anxious? Am I overwhelmed? Am I lonely? Am I bored? I’m gonna pick one thing that fits into my schedule and my responsibilities for me. And you set that intention. So you don’t get to the end of the day and are like, I’ve had nothing, I’ve done nothing. You know, it could be a walk to Starbucks with a podcast, it could be sitting in a park and be calling a friend on your commute. But you’ve done one thing to take care of yourself.

 

57:02

I love that. Yeah. And I think that it is, it’s just you don’t have to get it all done. Just you know, like, you cannot get it all done. The first I know the first six months, you want to make all the changes and all the things and you can’t you just need to do that one thing at a time. That is such a beautiful way to enter your day.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  57:20

I love that. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I know people listening this have gotten so much out of it. So I really appreciate your work and your time. Thank you.

I’m so glad that we connected me. Thank you.

So thank you for coming on here. I couldn’t appreciate it more. 

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Hello Someday Podcast. If you’re interested in learning more about me or the work I do or accessing free resources and guides to help you build a life you love without alcohol, please visit hellosomedaycoaching.com. And I would be so grateful if you would take a few minutes to rate and review this podcast so that more women can find it and join the conversation about drinking less and living more.