It’s huge. It’s so life changing for kids. And, and I think, you know, if there’s a parent who’s listening to this, and you’re noticing some of these things in your kid, you know, anxiety and depression, they’re isolating, they’re in the room all the time. Video game addiction is a real thing. You know, it’s not a bad option to look at. It’s not the first option that you want to go to necessarily, as far as I’m talking more of like a therapeutic. Yeah, wilderness therapy less. So like, I know, there’s a couple that are not therapeutic, they’re more like a summer camp. Yeah. And if you’re looking at a therapeutic one, they are really life changing. And for kids, my son went, he he says today that saved his life. Because you remove them from the situation that they’re in again, not the first, by no means is that the first stop along the road of getting help for your kid. But if you’ve exhausted all of your local resources, and they’re not responding, and you feel like they’re in danger, which there’s a lot of danger in in street drugs today are all laced with fentanyl. And kids are overdosing and dying, not addicted. These are these kids are not addicts. They’re experimenting, they’re taking stuff because they know it’ll make them feel different right away.

Or everyone else is doing it or it’s cool. Yep. So it’s, it’s definitely a good thing to look at. There’s lots of great programs out there. So anyway, I you’ll link, I’m sure to my website, there’s lots of information on there. But it is it is something to look at. And it’s a scary thing as a parent to think about that. But it’s, it’s so beautiful. It’s such a gift to them to send them to that just like you experienced. It’s like, oh, man, I just treasure those days and those trips and those relationships that you’ve built.

I’m convinced that’s why I moved to Seattle, because on my first backpacking trip, it was in the northwest, and it was sort of all over Wyoming, Oregon, and Washington State. And then, you know, spent two days in Seattle. And, you know, a decade later, I was like, let’s move there, that place was awesome.

So you had mentioned a couple things, one, that the wilderness therapeutic thing was great. But you’ve said a couple times, that’s not the first thing to go to. So I absolutely want to hear the signs that kids may be in trouble. And the first thing is to go to but also did we cover the coping mechanisms, both mind body and community? I feel like we didn’t quite talk about community.

Yeah, we haven’t gotten to community yet. But maybe I’ll hold off on that for a minute because that ties into the the community that I host.

But if we go back to Yes, the the the first kind of line of defense that you want to turn to if you have a child who’s struggling. And when I say child, I’m talking about kind of that early teen 12 or 13, all the way up to 18. When you basically lose control, unfortunately, from a legal standpoint.

The first step is to turn to your local resources, whether that’s local therapist, there’s what’s called 

alternative peer groups. And those are basically groups of young people who are trying to be sober and trying to live a healthy life and use better coping mechanisms. And they tend to be in high schools.

So there’s also sober high schools that people don’t know about. And so if you have a kiddo who’s been maybe they’ve been to treatment, they’re coming back or they just want to get away from the bad influences that are at their school. There are sober high schools that they can go to.

So there may be a church group right there. Maybe within your faith community, there may be different groups there that they could plug into.

There’s also like intensive intensive outpatient, so IOP. And that would be where they might go to a program, like every day for three hours. So they can still go to school, they can still participate basically in normal life, but they’re getting some therapeutic help along the way. And that can be local.

There’s organizations, both for profit and nonprofit that offer mentors. So sometimes kids just need a positive mentor in their life, you know, especially if they’re a single mom, there are so many single moms out there that are just struggling because they don’t have a positive male influence for their kids. And so there are organizations that offer mentors, and then they also offer parent coaches.

So you can be getting coached as the parent at the same time that your kid is being mentored by somebody who’s on the same team.

So there’s lots of resources, and you’ve really want to exhaust all of those because an out of placement and out of home placement can be I mean, just think about sending your son like if you were to say, okay, you’re gone now for a year for the next year. That’s torture. It’s so hard. Yeah. So you don’t want to turn to that first. Exhaust all of these other resources first.

And I assume in your community, on your website, you have a lot of those resources, because I know I’ve never heard about them. And I can imagine if you’re worried about your kid, or you see early signs, you know, not only a possible drug or alcohol use, but also depression, anxiety. You know, cutting eating disorders, I know, they’re all varied, but I wouldn’t even know where to start. I would probably know my doctor and maybe a therapist, you know, to begin.

Yes, yes, absolutely. I have them on on my website. And then also, the Partnership for drug free kids is now called the Partnership to End addiction. Go to drugfree.org. It’s an amazing nonprofit organization. It’s got tons of content, they offer free parent coaching. So if you are struggling, and you need some resources, that’s me, you can call they have a free helpline, they’ll sit down with you and work through a plan, they’ll assign you a coach who’s been where you are before, it’s all free. What is it like the hidden goldmine of resources. So there are resources out there. The problem is a lot of times, you know, as a parent, you’re once you get there, you’re like, Oh, my gosh, and you’re kind of in panic mode. And, again, going back to emotional regulation, he wants to be emotionally stable when you’re making these hard decisions about your kids. And so when I imagine you’re feeling all the feelings of anger, resentment, fear, overwhelm, you know, you’re feeling everything, isolation. You don’t want to be judged by other parents, you might feel attacked, if people are like, your kids, a bad kid, I mean, all of that is coming at you too, and feeling helpless. So you’ve got a lot to deal with.

Absolutely. It’s so overwhelming. It’s so scary. Everybody’s like, well, this would never happen in my family, like my kids. You know, I mean, I said that my kid would never, you know, do this. And so you need to be in the best frame of mind that you possibly can be when you’re having to find those resources, engage those resources, make really tough decisions about helping your kids.

So being being really present is important. And then as far as the the things to watch for I think, moms in particular, and I’m guessing this is mostly women who who listened.

But any parent, trust your gut. People constantly that I work with are like, Oh, you know, I had these little like, yellow flags that were going up when they were 13 and 14, even earlier, and I didn’t listen to them. And I wish I would have listened to them.

So I would say the first thing is listen to your gut. If your gut is telling you something is off, because you know your kid better than anybody. You know them better than their pediatrician, you know them better than any therapist, you know them better than the website that you might be looking at, that’s giving you like 17 checkboxes, you know, is your kid doing this. So trust your gut, and don’t be ashamed or afraid to reach out for resources, just like if your kid had diabetes, or leukemia or anything, you would be on it all over it, doing the research calling for resources. So I would say those two things first, but then a little bit more practical maybe would be to really look for a change in friend groups.

Typically kids will make a switch and it’s usually around eighth grade, they will switch friend groups. It’s a really common sign, school grades dropping can be a sign. But these kids that tend to be a little bit more susceptible to substance use are usually the brilliant ones. And so often they can keep their grades high, even if they’re using. So that’s not always dropped grades is not always an indicator.

But definitely also looking for isolation. If they’re spending more time in their room. If they’re spending more time online, you know, either video games, and I’m talking like all day, and if you’ve lost the relationship, so it’s not just one of these things, because as you know, the teen years, they start to get a little wonky anyway, like, there’s, you know, they’re trying to like separate from you.

So parents will say, Oh, I don’t know what’s normal, separation. But if you’re seeing a combination of these things, all of a sudden, there’s different friends hanging around. All of a sudden, they’re a little bit evasive, about what they’re doing, where they’re going, they might be spending the night at friend’s houses more. So whereas they used to want to either be at home or come home, they’re now spending the night elsewhere. Those are all things to look for changes in their hygiene, I mean, teenagers, especially boys, you know, the hygiene isn’t necessarily their first concern. But if it gets even worse, if they’re really not taking care of themselves, that’s a sign that mostly that loss of relationship, because even when a kid’s going through normal team weirdness, you’ll still have that relationship. But if you’re saying to yourself, I don’t even know who that kid is, like, Where’s my kid, that’s a sign that things have gotten awry, and you’re going to want to try to pull in some resources. So those are just some of the more obvious things.

But really, I just encourage people to trust your gut, it’s so dead on usually, you might not know what is wrong, but you know, something is wrong. And that’s where you want to step in. And I say that, because the drugs that are out there now are so much more dangerous than they were five years ago, 10 years ago. So like I said, before, kids are dying from fentanyl overdoses that are not addicts, these are just regular old kids who are experimenting, they go to a party or find there’s a bowl of pills, they pop a few pills, because that’s one of the things that kids are doing now is to see who can sort of get blacked out first. So they’ll combine alcohol. And what they do is, they’re pill parties. So they’ll say everybody go in your parents medicine cabinet, take a few pills, or whatever you can find, bring them to a party, they put them in a big bowl in the middle of the table and say, okay, and they’ll just start taking them. Until the like the first person blocks out. The most terrifying thing to think about as a parent, but this is happening.

And so again, helping your kid realize like, I don’t need to do that. I don’t need to start doing that kind of stuff. Because I can have fun in lots of other ways. It’s so important.

But the just the risk, and the danger today is it’s just insane. It’s so, so sad. And we have lost three kids in our community in the last three months, because of this exact reason. Kids are experimenting. Two of the three, actually all three of them had been in treatment been out of treatment, we’re doing better. But went back and just took that one pill. And there’s usually almost always alcohol involved also. And that combination just suppresses your breathing, and they don’t wake up more and more. So it’s not something that you can really afford not to address.

So if it feels awkward to have this conversation, you know, with your kid about emotions, or about your body or about whatever, think of how much worse it’s going to be if you’re standing at their funeral. And I don’t say that to be overly dramatic. I just say it because it’s happened three times in the last three months with people I know. And those parents are saying, look, look at the yellow flags, don’t ignore those flags, you’ve got to hop on those. And there’s just not time anymore. With fentanyl in the market. There’s just not time to wait around about it or think maybe it’s a phase. Just can’t do it anymore.

So and so what would you say to parents who have younger kids? Because now I’m like, I need to get off this podcast and go talk to Hank. Like what would you say to a kid? I don’t even think he’s been to a party. But like, just to be like, here’s the danger, what do you recommend?

Just making it part of the conversation just saying straight up, dude, there are pills out there, it would be like handing you a beer and saying here, it’s half of it is cyanide, but half of it is Coors Light. Go ahead and, and drink it. That’s the equivalent of what it is today, sort of like Russian Roulette

It is 1,000%, Russian roulette. And so you just need to be that open with them. But also at the same time saying, you know, I know you know, your kid, I know you feel anxious sometimes. What do you do when you feel that way? What you know? Or what makes you feel that way? What can I do to help you when you feel that way? What are things that you found that have helped, you just have to normalize the conversation and let them know, a it may be in your DNA, you may have a family history of addiction and and that’s a great conversation to have to say just like cancer, this is another thing that you haven’t loaded in your gun. Or you may not, you may not have anything loaded in your gun.

But the the other thing that I would say is to look at there’s the ACEs test, which is an adverse childhood experiences, and it’s just 10 questions that you can ask of yourself or your child.

And it’s just about childhood traumas and things that have happened. And typically, when we hear the word trauma, we think of like war, and rape and all these horrific things. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, trauma can be a car accident, it could be your sister trying to commit suicide. These are real things. And so you can take this short test, get your score, if you have a score of three or higher, you’re more susceptible to substance use. And then that can just normalize the conversation to to say, Wow, buddy, look at look at the score that you have, we need to talk about this, you know, this means that you might need a different kind of doctor than we’ve been taking you to maybe we need to take you to a doctor where you can just talk, you know, so just getting really real, don’t be afraid to have the conversation. You can’t afford not to, and let them know it’s okay to talk to you about it.

You know, a lot of times kids don’t talk to their parents, because they’re afraid they’re going to send them to treatment. It can sound crazy, but kids are really afraid of that. So just being honest and saying, I don’t want to send you to treatment, I saw last thing I want. First of all, it’s like crazy expensive. So you really don’t want to Yeah, but to them, you know saying I don’t want you to be to go anywhere. I want you to be here in our home, I want us to be together. But we just have to be able to talk about this stuff. And I promise to you, I will not freak out. I will not shame you. I will not blame you. I will not make you feel like a bad person. If you came home and you said, Mom, I drank at the party last night. Okay? Why? Why were you feeling like that? Why did you feel like you needed to instead of you’re grounded, I’m taking your phone? I’m taking the car that you know, just Okay, why? What happened? Tell me what that felt like. You know, so you have to get moved more a little bit into a consultant type role, then the authoritative, coming down harsh, all these things are going to happen. And that doesn’t mean that there won’t be consequences because there should be consequences. But they need to know you genuinely want to understand why did you do that? Why are you feeling like you want to numb out? Why are you feeling like you want to pop a Xanax? because these kids in high school are taking Xanax like it is candy. And so it’s just a conversation you have to get comfortable having.

Yeah, I mean, I feel like I’m totally oblivious to all the things you’re you’re scaring me but in a good way. I need to learn this shit. About what, you know what’s going on. But I totally hear the, you know, peer pressure or what other people are doing. I mean, when I was in college, it was a sport. Literally the goal was to throw up in blackout on the rugby team like that. That was the regular. You know, that was the goal. And I can only imagine if it was a stronger drug than than beer.

Yeah, absolutely. And it is and so we just have to be getting comfortable with those uncomfortable conversations with our kids.  

And I know you’ve talked about this that a lot of times when moms have kids doing opioids doing stuff that has fentanyl in it, it can be really easy to minimize wine, beer cocktails, a gin and tonic, right? You’re like, I’m stressed, I’m not doing hard, addictive drugs. Therefore, there’s nothing to see here. And yes, the idea that not only will stopping drinking, help you emotionally regulate yourself, help you be there for them. But also, drinking is not helping you deal with the stress. It’s just not, you know, we think that it is helping us. And that is part of our toolkit, it is actually making your anxiety, your depression, your overwhelm your fear so much worse than it would be otherwise. I know, it’s hard to get out of it, but it’s not helping.

Right, right. And, you know, I think some of some of the moving away from that comes through education. I didn’t know until I started listening to your podcast and other podcasts about just physiologically what’s going on in your body when you drink alcohol. So I think that’s super important. And interesting, just to learn what’s going on?

That’s crazy, because you’re in the community on addiction, so you didn’t actually know that stuff?

Nope. Did not know it is as you just thought it was in a different category, like hard drugs. Why? Wine perfectly fine. Absolutely. I mean, I knew in general, like, it’s probably not really great for your body. But on the other hand, you hear these reports of you know, red wine is healthy. Red wine is healthy. And and so it just Yes, it seemed like it was in a different category. When if you like, it sounds like you weren’t drinking to hangovers daily. Like I was not remembering stuff at night. So you don’t do you know, but you still got to the point to say, I don’t this I don’t want to do this anymore. I mean, yeah, you know, that’s, I think that’s great.

Yeah, no, I mean, you wake up enough mornings with, I want to, I mean, maybe it was a hangover. I don’t know how you define that. But just feeling like really ragged in my head, kind of, not throbbing, but just not great. You know what I mean? There’s just like, this icky feeling. And, and when you do that long enough, and you just think, well, this is just how I feel in the morning. And then you realize, Oh, this is not just how I feel in the morning is amazing. But back to your your comment about Yeah, I just, I mean, it’s just because alcohol is everywhere. There was I was not making the connection.

Well, and you’re in marketing and advertising.

And I’m over here, like, I’m in Napa at photoshoots for five days, staying at a winery with all these photographers. And you know, like, it’s glamorous, it’s beautiful. And so, yeah, so I wasn’t making that connection. But I think when you are thinking about if you have a kid and you’re worried or they’re or they’re struggling, you’re just doing, you’re just kind of stacking the cards against yourself, if you are not fully present, fully aware, because you are going to have to make some hard decisions, whether that’s a local, you know, somebody to help your kid or whether that’s an out of home placement. These are really hard decisions, I will tell you really, really hard. And if you’re making those under the influence of anything, first of all, you’re going to doubt your decision, you’re going to doubt “Am I doing the right thing”, because there’s just, there’s just that fuzziness around you and so, really like the best gift that you could give yourself, if you’re not willing to, you know, to say I’m gonna quit forever, just say okay, for now, a I want a role model to my child that this isn’t how we deal with the hard things. And so maybe I’ll do it for a while, and then I’ll see how it feels. And maybe it’s gonna feel great. And I want to continue but you know, and I think this is what you talk about too, is like, just think 100 days. Just try it. Yeah, just try it and then it’s not like alcohol is gonna go anywhere.

Yeah, it’ll be there after three months from now, but you might feel so good. You’re not gonna want to go back to it. And that’s, that’s my belief, because that’s my experience and the experience of so many other women. And these coping skills, I mean, that brand is talking about they can help you the mind The body, the community, I know all of them have been huge for me because even when you remove the alcohol, they’re still life underneath in the stresses and, and your emotions that you never developed healthy coping skills with, and I know, exercise and therapy and medication and you know, all the other things, as well as community, like talking to people in groups, getting real about your emotions, getting real with my friends about drinking, and not drinking, and anxiety.

And then also sharing circles, if you find them or other other women on the alcohol free path, I mean, all of these things for you are so healing, and you model them for your kids. And, you know, talk about your need for love and when you’re lonely, and when you’re sad. And it’s not just if your kids are doing hard drugs, it’s so much else. I mean, I know, suicide and depression is a real concern. But also cutting and eating disorders and just general, you know, sadness and, and feeling lonely or bullying. I mean, there’s so much that your kids need healthy coping mechanisms from so thank you so much for sharing them.

And, and the community part is huge. And we have in the stream as a community that I host for moms of kids who are struggling, either experimenting, or addicted, or in treatment or sober living. And you know, when you can sit with 100 other moms who know exactly what you’re going through, and you don’t have to be ashamed of it. You don’t have to sugarcoat what happened last night, you don’t have to do any of that it is so healing. And you find out you’re a lot more like other people than you, you know, you might think, Oh, I’m the only one going through this. I’m the worst mom, if I hadn’t gotten divorced, if I had gotten divorced, if I hadn’t done that thing, or if I had done that thing, you just you realize we’re all in the same boat. Like we’re all dealing with the same thing, we did not cause our kids to go and do this.

And I think that’s another important thing I want to make sure and get across is that even if you are not modeling healthy behaviors right now, and your child is struggling with substances, it is not your fault, you did not make them do that. Because I have multiple kids and only one ended up going that way. The other one went the opposite way. You know what I mean? So yeah, it’s not that you’re causing it. And I think that’s super important to make sure and mention, but you have the opportunity to show that there’s a different way. And so wherever you can do that is is important. But yeah, sitting with a community of other people. And you look around, you’re like, Oh, she looks just like me. Yeah, she’s a therapist, and she has a son in treatment, or she’s a pediatrician, and she has a daughter who’s, you know, cutting or whatever it is, it just makes you realize that it doesn’t matter. And that’s the thing about addiction is it is equal opportunity, man it is. 

Well, I mean, and also just like alcohol, right? They should, it’s addictive, right? So it’s not that you did anything wrong, or even that the kids did anything wrong, like you with enough exposure to a substance that is surrounding them. If it’s in their social circles, it will work as designed. I mean, you will want to consume more and more often. And some of these are highly, highly, highly addictive. You know, and it doesn’t discriminate, right? You know, single parents married parents, high socioeconomic, low socio economic, does not discriminate.

No, and unfortunately, the resources available do discriminate, is just incredibly painful and hard. So, unfortunately, everybody doesn’t have the same access to treatment or even information and prevention. So there is definitely a disparity there. For sure, as a privileged white woman, I’m sitting here talking about how my son went to treatment and all these things, which is amazing that I had that ability to do that for him. So there is discrimination as far as what’s available, but the substance itself works the same on every brain. And and yeah, it’s when it’s designed to do that. It’s not only that you want to use this drug that you have to use more as you know, if you’ve been drinking one glass of wine a night for a year. Pretty soon you’re not going to get the same feeling.

After one glass of wine, you have to go to two glasses of wine, right? So heroin is the same. oxy cotton is the same Percocet, Xanax, all of those are exactly the same. And so once, once it hits the brain, you’ve kind of lost control of what you’re going to do with it.

You’re doing such amazing work on your podcast and in your community. So if anyone listening to this is worried about their kids or just wants to be more informed or more informed about what’s out there and warning signs, I really encourage you to listen to Brenda’s podcast. And can you tell us, like where people can find you? What’s your website?

Yeah, just BrendaZane.com. And from there, you can find the podcast, you can find the community, it’s a private membership community, it is not on Facebook. It’s a very positive healing space. I’m on the health and wellness coach. And so we really focus on mom’s health and wellness, insanity, we talk less about our kids. So this is all about you.

It’s a space for you to heal and to find resources. So it’s all at my website, BrendaZane.com, and I’m on Instagram at @the.stream.community. The stream community is where we hang out. And my podcast is Hopestream. And yeah, I talk about all day talk about addiction and treatment and coping skills for parents and moms and all that. So and before we go, yeah, tell us how your son is doing now.

So he is doing amazing. He struggled for about six years with a very severe addiction to not just substances, but also high risk lifestyle, overdosed twice in 2017 and he today is miraculously doing fabulous. He’s studying to be a psychologist he wants to go work with young kids are struggling. Hopefully in January moving out to work at the treatment program that he ran away from when he was 17 years old. So I can get it all emotional that I know anything. And I know you’ve been through so much. Hell, yes. So yeah, and it can change, it can change, and it can take a long time. And so that’s going back to the community. You got to have a team around you.

Yeah. And the moms need support. The mothers need support. And so talking about this, I know really helps.

Well, thank you for being on here. I really appreciate it.

And so glad to know you and be your friend.