SUMMARY KEYWORDS

drinking, people, alcohol, kids, sobriety, sober, feel, boundaries, life, wine, home, week, situation, podcast, husband, cravings, person, support, child, months

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Ashley Loeb Blassingame

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a bus, how to sit with your emotions, when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Today we’re going to talk about how families and friends can be supportive of your sobriety. We’re going to discuss how to talk to them about what you’re doing and what they can say and do, how to address it if you’re living with someone who doesn’t want to stop drinking, including in your home, and isn’t really supportive of you stopping drinking. We’re gonna jump into how to talk to your kids, how to interact with friends who drink without adopting a label or sharing more than you want to, and also boundaries, what they are and what they aren’t. We’re also going to talk about PAWS which is Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome, which a lot of people don’t understand. 

 

And my guest today is an expert in all of these areas. I’m incredibly excited to have her on and to talk about this topic because you know how to talk to your friends and family, how to get them to support you, what you need, what they need to understand. It’s something that comes up all the time. So today, I’m welcoming Ashley Loeb Blassingame. She’s the co-founder and the Chief People Officer of Lionrock Recovery, an organization that provides online substance abuse counseling as a certified alcohol and drug counselor, a certified relapse prevention specialist and a certified arise interventionist. Ashley has committed her life to helping others find the hard won joy of a life in sobriety. When she’s not running talent acquisition and collaborating with the executive team at Lionrock, she’s the host of The Courage To Change, a recovery podcast, a top 1.5 globally ranked podcast that I’ve been on, and I really encourage you to listen too because it’s wonderful. So Ashley, welcome to the podcast.

 

03:27

Thank you so much for having me. 

 

Yeah, I love talking to you. And I love your sort of deep background in addiction recovery, but also looking at relapse prevention and how to help people. So I invited you on to talk about how families and friends can support you. Do you want to jump in?

 

03:50

Yeah, I’d love to thank you for having me. And I also love recommending your podcast to people. It’s really, you know, on my podcasts, we tell stories, and this, your podcast, has a lot of really juicy information on how to choose and how to talk to people. And that is so important in this topic of how to talk to families and friends is incredibly important because it’s one of the pieces that can sometimes make or break someone’s ability to stay sober, abstinent, whatever they however they define it for any period of time. And there’s data behind it that shows the more supportive a family is of recovery, the higher the probability that that person is going to stay sober. So it really, really matters. Families struggle with this who have no language, you have a person, your loved one who either decides to get sober or goes away to treatment and they get all this knowledge, right? They get this education, a new language to use, and then they come home and they expect you to understand what they’re saying or to know what they’re thinking or to consider what might be a trigger when this is not your wheelhouse. And I think it’s really important that families have some language to use when they’re discussing that. So one of the pieces that I like to talk about first is what’s a boundary? Do you have? You know, what kind of, what kind of language do you use when you talk about boundaries? Casey?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  05:27

Well, I mean, I think that a boundary is really talking about what you need, and asking for support and being very specific about how you need things to change. And you can, in my mind, put down a boundary and then it’s up to the other person, whether they respect it, support it, cross it, and then you can kind of deal with that as it goes.

 

06:03

So I think a lot of women who listen to this podcast don’t necessarily go to treatment. They, you know, kind of gotten sick of headaches and hangovers, they know that their anxiety is going off the chart, they’re having trouble coping with all their responsibilities. And so they’re listening to this to try to go alcohol free. And likely their spouse drinks, their friends too. And their friends don’t understand or their spouse doesn’t understand why they’re doing this, maybe they think you’re overreacting, maybe they think you just need to cut back. And so when I was thinking about boundaries, and I think both sides of this are really important, often the women I talk to, they’re the ones who need to draw boundaries and ask more of their partners, like, their partners in their kids are getting something out of them having really poor boundaries, and they’re doing everything for everyone else, and then feeling resentful, and drinking over the fact that they have very little for themselves, or very little time. And so a lot of times I talked to them about the fact that when they’re going alcohol free, some of the boundaries needs to be around, hey, it’d be really helpful if you don’t have alcohol in the house or drink around me for 30 days. Sometimes their partner is that’s a no go. Or I need you to take the kids more often. I need time to myself to go to the gym, to go for a walk, to not deal with the bedtime routine. You know what I mean? And that’s,

 

11:12

Yes, yes, I do know what you mean. And frankly, as a, you know, a mother with young kids, I have twin boys who are five, I know that this is a struggle for many people, even if they aren’t, even if they are really asking for what you need. One of the things that I think is extremely important in this asking for what you need, is also telling people what you’re going to do. I think a lot of the way that we as women phrase things is this, like almost asking permission. And there is a space where it makes sense to do that, right? I’m gonna go on a trip, does it work with your schedule, so on and so forth. 

 

But there’s also a real importance about saying, I’m going to take time to myself on Saturday, I’ve scheduled someone to watch the kids, I know that you’re going to be home at three o’clock, I will be back at this time, I need you to do these three things. And stop asking for something in a way that shows that you, this is your boundary because you’re not willing for the answer to be no. And I know that’s really hard. And when your spouse experiences that for the first few times you sometimes, you know, get some raised eyebrows and push back. That is the beginning of your journey to true, respected individuation and that ability to self care. So saying, you know, I really need alcohol out of the house for 30 days, if that’s such a big problem, there are other things going on with that person and alcohol, their other dynamics, most spouses are going to say, Okay. 

 

If they don’t, there’s a fantastic, there’s a woman, Anna Lemke, she is head of dual diagnosis and addiction at Stanford University. And she wrote a book called Dopamine Nation. She talks about a 30 day dopamine fast, she says 30 days specifically, and she goes into the science around why that is so important. Sometimes showing your spouse or having them listen to her she’s been on every podcast you can imagine. And that can be helpful giving them some data around that isn’t coming from you. Sometimes you’ve been the one that’s talked too much. And they need to hear it for the same words from someone else, giving them that, asking them, say, Hey, can you do me a favor and listen to this? This is how you can support me, being really specific is as you said. What? What is it that you need for the people to do in your life to support you? Because one of my experience is that no one is coming to save you. 

 

And I, you know, I’ve been, I’ve been sober for 16 and a half years and I still think someone is coming to save me in my sobriety. I still do things. I still have thoughts where I don’t, it’s like this idea that they’ll know and they’ll do it because why wouldn’t they do it and support me and they love me. So someone’s going to save me here. And it’s just not going to happen that way your kids are not going to give you the break you need because they see that you’re struggling or they’re not going to interpret that we have to stand in and say okay, the kitchen is closed at this hour every night because to trigger for me or I’m trying this you know one of the things people ask me a lot is how do I stop drinking and not make it a big deal? Yeah, right. Yes, I work at whatever, How do I stop drinking and not have everyone go Wait, you’re, you know, not drinking. And so I talk a lot about, you can say that you are trying a health initiative. And that you can say that your doctor says it’s messing with your hormones, you can say, you know that it’s a specific health reason, you can say you’re learning that you may not have enough of the chemical that breaks down alcohol, in order to be able to drink it, there’s so many different, really legitimate and they frankly, they’re probably not inaccurate ways to describe why it is you need to stop drinking, or like it increases inflammation, or, you know, for arthritis or,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  15:42

you know, the other thing I always am like, you sleep worse, right? Your sleep is terrible when you’re drinking and you have the energy. And you know, all of those things. I mean, everybody talks about their health care when they get a peloton or they train for right? Hey, I mean, people at my work at L’Oreal used to often do a week cleanse, juice cleanse and do it all together and like as a team, and yet when you’re like, Oh, I’m not drinking, I’m taking a 100 day break. You know, we’re worried that someone will read into that.

 

16:20

I have a friend who is early in her pregnancy. And she told a girlfriend of hers who she used to, you know, that when they were, as they’ve grown older, they partied together and gone out to wine bars, and whatever. And she said, I’m really pregnant, I can’t drink right now. And I watched that friend, even though she loves her, knows her, knows she’s pregnant, Oh my gosh, I’m so bummed. And man, you’re gonna miss out on the like, really? And I watched this interaction. And it amazed me because I hear so many people talk about this exact experience where it’s like your loved one knows you and isn’t trot in many ways. They want to support you, but it affects them a notch. And they’re drinking enough that they’re going to complain to you and what I said to my friend, as we were talking about this, because my friend was like, I don’t understand I’m pregnant, why isn’t she having a better reaction? And, and what I said is that, a lot of the time, people put so much meaning behind drinking, when they go to you know, drinking means this, you know, networking at work, drinking means relaxing, after a long day drinking means having fun, partying, drinking meets. And so when you try to adjust that for someone else who’s holding on tightly to what they experience, and you try to mess with that, people are going to push back even if they love you, even if you’re pregnant, even if it’s causing you inflammation. And that’s where the boundaries that you were talking about coming in of saying, I love you so much. I know this must be disappointing. But you know what? It doesn’t matter what’s in my glass, we can still go out and have a fun time. And no one’s going to know

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  18:11

the difference. 

 

Yeah, and part of me. I mean, you said earlier, it’s about their own relationship with alcohol. I remember, sort of the first time I seriously tried to stop drinking, I had gotten maybe four months alcohol free, and then I got pregnant. And so that was great, because then I couldn’t drink. So I ended up getting a year but started drinking as soon as my daughter was born. But I remember going out with a bunch of co workers, like a bunch of women we all work together, maybe eight of us to a restaurant. And I was like, four or five months pregnant. And so I was like, Hey, guys, no, I don’t you know, I’m pregnant. Everybody was like, it’s so exciting. It’s wonderful. One woman kept coming up to me and being like, come on, you can drink. I think she was already like buzz drunk, whatever. Come on, it’s no big deal. Like, you can have a glass I’ve read. I mean, she’d never had children. And don’t get me wrong with my first pregnancy. I was like, I can have a glass once a week, you know, in my third trimester, but I was like, why are you pressuring me to drink when I’m pregnant? And it’s not like other people weren’t drinking with her. So I just was like, why is it so important to what’s in my glass? 

 

But you also mentioned earlier, and I want to state by the way, that is not everyone. That is not the majority of my experience. So if you’re listening to this, and you’re like, oh, fuck, I don’t want to go through that people are not going to be cool. I would say, you know, there are three types of people you’re going to encounter when you say you’re not drinking. One shrug, don’t notice, whatever, no problem, right? And you’re really surprised, I was really surprised. I was like, I just told you I’m not drinking, and you’re just like, you don’t care? Like, I care about this so much. The other person is going to be curious, a lot of people you normally drink with are like, really? Was it hard? How do you feel? And those are people who I think are interested or worried about their drinking, or what you know, or they might be like, Wow, I could never do that, you know. This third group of people will pressure you to drink. And that’s because they’re worried about their own drinking, or if you don’t drink, how it reflects on them, they won’t be able to drink as much. 

 

And in the third situation, you just need to be like, That’s all about them, and their relationship with alcohol. So I’m not going to internalize this, you know, in early sobriety, or early, you know, in your sober, abstinence journey, whatever, you’re doing the sober curious, you know, path. I think that, you know, it can be really destabilizing. If someone starts to push on questions you also have, right? Well, how long are you going to do this for? Do you really have to do it for you know, all those you can be? You’re like, I don’t know, step one. Why can’t you just cut back? Your mind is already thinking that it’s no big deal. It’s just one night, you know? Yeah, you’re asking yourself that, you’re saying to yourself, I mean, they said it was okay. Wine glass during pregnancy, or, you know, these thoughts are going through your, you know, I found an article that said that the skin of grapes in wine is good for you. And I see that this is actually a benefit. 

 

Yeah.

 

So I think that it’s important to have mapped out some of these conversations ahead of time, so that you don’t have to revisit the question, you’re just revisiting the answer that you know, you’re going to give, and that you’re revisiting the reaction that you’ve planned. Because if you start to read, if you start to revisit the question, in that moment, under pressure, that’s where it gets difficult. But like you said, most people are either curious or don’t care. And that’s, frankly, how it should be is, you know, curious or don’t care and putting yourself in situations where you’re able to leave easily is something that I think is really important. Do you have access to a vehicle? If not, don’t be the sober driver right off. 

 

Yeah, do not be the designated driver. That’s yeah, sucks. Because then you have to wait there for people. And that I think that’s something that people don’t consider is that you then, then you’re obligated to other people. Don’t obligate yourself to other people. Have an exit plan for any party, any situation you’re in, you know, at home that 30 days is so, so important for your brain, expressing to your family things like when you do this, I feel this. 

 

Yeah, that’s another really grea,t when you asked me how long I’m going to not drink for. I feel uncertain and uncomfortable. And I would love it if we didn’t need to have that conversation right now. Because I’m unsure. Yeah.

Casey McGuire Davidson 

Hi there. If you’re listening to this episode, and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, the sobriety starter kit.

 

The sobriety starter kit is an online self study sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step by step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one on one coaching. And the sobriety starter kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it. And when it fits into your schedule. You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time.

This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step by step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking, from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better. You’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach, you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course 

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  23:16

Well, the other thing I would say is, I find that it’s really helped. I always recommend it. If you’re going to a party or out with a girlfriend or to your family or whatever. It really helps to just text in advance. Usually people are like, oh, we’ll meet at x, will do this and just be like, awesome. Can’t wait, by the way, I’m on a health kick, I’m not drinking right now. But don’t worry, I’ve found this awesome non alcoholic beer or I’ll bring my own beverage. Yes. Sort of casually, but you already put it out there. So that it’s not you show. I mean, a lot of times people are like, What do you want to drink when you go to a party, we got wine, we got beer, the host just wants to know you’re taken care of. They literally want to check you off the list so they can go on to the next person. And I remember being at a restaurant and they bring over the wine list. And you feel like a deer in the headlights right? You’re just like, like it’s almost like an and that’s just what they do. Literally, right?

 

24:20

It’s not about, it’s not about you and in my experience, recently there’s been a lot of places are carrying non alcoholic beverages and mocktails. They’re easy, mocktails. One that I use a lot is seltzer. I say, can I have a cranberry juice and a lime? And it’s really good. They usually put it in you know, a you know, lowball glass that looks the same as everybody else’s and you know they’re none the wiser. Nobody’s, nobody’s sniffing out my alcohol.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  24:53

Nobody is a non alcoholic Mojito or Virgin Mojito. I love Mojito. They’re so good and they’re good virgin too.

 

25:01

I have a hilarious story about mojitos. Okay, so my husband here, my husband, I love non alcoholic mojitos, right. And we go to Africa for our honeymoon, we’re in Mozambique in this beautiful hotel. I lived in Mozambique when I was three to five years old. And my mom was there when I was in college. And you went to a really easy so you know, it’s an amazing, we were on the island of Bazaruto. So we’re there with a bunch of other couples, they don’t know that we’re, that we don’t drink. And so they’re, everybody’s ordering drinks. And we were getting together. And my husband is like taking my mojitos and drinking. He’s drinking so many of these non alcoholic mojitos to the point where we’ve ordered so many of them that the people there are starting to wonder like, why we’re not completely wasted? Or yeah, so it looks like he’s taking, like, at one point, he’s like, are you gonna drink that? He’s taking mine. And, you know, the only reason that we were suspicious in this situation was because of how many we were consuming and we were still able to stand. So it was pretty, it was hilarious. They were like, are you guys, are you guys okay? But for the most part, I think people don’t know, people don’t care what’s in your glass. And there are ways to hide that. You know, I know that it’s different at home with the family and the kids.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  26:26

I mean, a lot of people when they, when they go to bars, restaurants, like they’ll just go if you’re at a work event, they’ll just go up to the bartender or a waiter and be like, by the way, I don’t drink or I’m not drinking, can you bring me x or I always, you know, when I get to a restaurant, you know, the waitress comes up, and I just very casually be like, actually, I don’t drink alcohol. So you know, what fun things do you have that are non alcoholic? And, you know, they don’t know why. And they don’t need to know why. Right? Lots of people don’t drink. 

 

But let’s talk about at home because a client of mine, I was talking to just yesterday, is you know, in her first 60 days, and her spouse comes home from work and on the weekends, whatever, and just drinks beer, and a lot and he’s totally uninterested in not drinking at all. Like, he probably wishes she would not stop drinking. And so a lot of things happen there, right? First of all, you’re jealous that they’re drinking. Second of all, it’s a huge queue that triggers a craving to see alcohol around. And it’s incredibly hard to resist if it’s right in front of you. It’s like willpower all the time. And then also when people drink. They often are not helping with the kids or doing something or spending time with us. That leads to resentment. Another huge difference. And people who drink a ton are honestly pretty fucking annoying if you’re sober. Like what do you do in that?

 

28:13

Yeah, yeah, it’s a great example. So first of all, if you’ve been, if you’re, if you got married to someone and one of the things you did together was drink and you stop drinking, you’re changing the balance of that relationship, right? That person married you as a person who drinks. Yes, sometimes that they’re, they’re really flexible. And they can, they’re like, Okay, this is the new you, right. Sometimes the new you is like, wait a minute, I’m married to someone who drinks and gets drunk with me. And I find that in the situation you described, that the spouse typically struggles with a problem. Oh, yeah, you and by you moving away from it, the focus they feel is now on them. And so that’s where, that’s where their resistance comes from. So that’s number one. 

 

However, as the person who stops drinking, that’s none of your business right now in terms of trying to deal with that, right. That you can’t, you can’t help them right now. You need to help you and so what that looks like if there’s alcohol in the house, and they’re not helping with the kids and so on and so forth, is that you need to think in a way strategically you need to turn on the literal, that Mom Brain that plans, right. You need to get childcare and they’re going to be upset that you’re spending the money. Oh, well, that’s part you know, I have a girlfriend where this, I’m always saying, look, he can either help or he can outsource the help but that’s the top, those are the two options. So if by definition, if he does not help, he is willing to outsource the help and what I say upfront is if you do not do this, I will find someone to do it and to help us and I will spend the money. So that’s that my personal, you know, thing is like you can’t, you don’t get to ditch me. 

 

The next piece is making yourself, taking yourself out of that situation as much as you can. So having, you know, I’m just going to make up some scenarios here, if you have young kids, and it’s drinking time, go have dinner at the park and with the kids and you know, have that be your focus, and then go up to your room and read, don’t spend time with that if you can’t avoid that in the sense that they’re in the living room, and you’re like, but I want to watch TV too. Oh, well, grab your iPad or your phone, go to your room, put on essential oil, diffuser, whatever. Exactly. So you’re going to create a safety for yourself within an, we’ll just call it unsafe for this, you know, that might feel dramatic, but in an unsafe situation. And you can do that. People do it all the time, where you create a little haven for yourself where not drinking is not challenged every three seconds. That may mean removing yourself from the spouse or the partner, which may make them upset. 

 

But that is worth what you’re going to get out of this experience, which is also not just repeating the worst part over and over again. Because yes, there’s no question that in the very beginning, you’re going to want to drink, right? I mean, you have cravings, you’re going through withdrawal, it’s your way of relaxing, it lights up chemically. And I mean, the alcohol is right there in front of you, your willpower is going to break down. And it is incredibly easy to just grab a drink, whatever your drink of choice is, if it’s not in the home, and you’ve told your spouse or your kids that you’re not drinking, and you would have to drive somewhere, usually you can eat something you can go for a walk, it’ll pass as long as it’s not an immediate I want that it’s there.

 

32:08

There are ways, there are things that you can do also for accountability, that help with willpower, because willpower is, if you read about willpower, it biochemically only lasts for typically 15 minutes, you have 15 minutes of willpower a day. That’s crazy, and that is not a reliable resource. That’s yeah, that’s for sure, especially in this situation. So there are things, there’s something called Vivitrol, where you can get a shot once a month that basically reduces cravings and it has no other, it’s not like, it doesn’t have, it doesn’t have any psychoactive effects. And people use that to help them with cravings. And, you know, it’s a month long, so you don’t have, you’re not responsible for taking it, there’s, you can create, you know, accountability, like an accountability chain or thread with someone. You can, there are these breathalyzers that you can get. And they there’s a tracking system, and you can have an accountability partner who were you breathalyze every night at six or seven, or you know that you have to breathalyze at eight, and that your friend is going to see that or your accountability partner is going to see that and that keeps you accountable. 

 

There’s a lot of different things that you can do and different tools that you can use, that may get you over that hump, not just knowing that you’re gonna have to test or you’re gonna you know, that someone is going to be accountable, may make you turn around at that moment, may make the difference. And accountability is a huge part of recovery. Because it’s incredible what we can do when we’re accountable to others. It’s extremely difficult to do it without that. And I find that people who utilize accountability in whatever way works for them are just simply happier and more successful. 

 

Yeah,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  33:58

I mean, that’s a lot of the coaching I do is, is sort of talking once a week, texting every day. Yep. And you know, supporting them when those cravings hit and well what willpower is going out, but also helping them do those boundaries. But like, trust me when I desperately wanted to drink on day 16 I talked to my coach that morning, and I was going to talk to her in a week and I told her I was fine. I was like, fuck, I can’t tell her that I talked to her and then I went out and drank that night. So that accountability helped me not give in at that moment.

 

34:36

And so like a coaching situation, let’s say you’re, you’re coaching someone and you want to, they’re like, I have alcohol in the house. I am terrified. They’re there, you know, the breathalyzer thing. You may be on the other end of that and you may and they may vote and again it goes nowhere. You’re not in trouble or anything, but just knowing that it’s for me with alcohol, I found this, again, this is just me. But there’s something about testing that allows me to be accountable without having to say it because something that was so painful was saying, I relapsed. And I that I, you know, I drank, and when I had certain levels of accountability, it took away, it took away my responsibility for saying it, and it made it really black and white. And then the conversation was sparked from there. So knowing how, knowing how you work best, and that’s something you can discover with a coach, with this sponsor, with it, who, whomever is really helpful, because then you can have a plan, it is all about having a plan. And of course, it’s easier if your spouse is supportive, even if they drink like, Honey, I love you. You do, of course, you know, whatever.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  35:59

I know, when I stopped drinking, I did not want to tell my husband, deal it was, or how hard it was because I didn’t, I wasn’t sure it would work, kind of. And I didn’t want him watching me in case I went back to drinking. So when I started I hired a coach, didn’t tell him about that either. I was like, he really doesn’t pay attention that much. Yeah, just kidding. Probably how I got away with drinking a lot. But I said, you know, I’m taking a 100 day break from drinking, I want to get in shape. I want to feel better. Yep. I need you not to bring a bottle of wine home from the grocery store, when you know, I’ve had a bad day. I need to not have any wine in the house. Because I love it. And that’s hard. And, you know, can you not drink around me for the first month? And he was willing to do that, you know, I mean, when I would try to, you know, go into health care before I would serve him salmon and asparagus and refuse to go to the burger place on our date. And he did that, you know? That is easier for me. There was still hard alcohol in the house. I didn’t drink that. He had his beer, still does. I have my non alcoholic beer. That’s like taking up way more than his face in the fridge. But for the first six months, I wouldn’t buy him beer because I wasn’t going down that aisle. But also I was kind of annoyed because I like to drink and I wasn’t. So I’m like fuck you, buy your own beer.

 

37:37

Yeah, totally, if it’s important to you. So you know, I’ve had clients who ask their spouses not to drink on vacations. Mine didn’t. But like one of my clients was like, God, it would be so much easier if he didn’t drink on this vacation. And when he doesn’t drink, we’re more connected and have more fun and are better with the kids. And so I said, Well, have you asked him to not drink on vacation? She was like, no, no, no, it’s his vacation, too. I want him to relax. She asked him and he was like, okay, you know, and just easy. But when they won’t, or when they don’t, that’s when you’re saying you need an additional plan, you need additional accountability, you need to remove yourself from that situation. All those things.

 

38:28

I like to ask people what they would do, but as women, as a mom, one of the things, it’s harder for me to think of self care for myself, than it is per se, some of my loved ones, my children, my siblings, etc. So one thing that I like to do, a kind of thought experiment, is your daughter or son is married, and has kids and their spouse is drinking and they want to stop. And they’re in the house. And the spouse says no. What’s your advice for your child in your situation and really picture it, picture your daughter in the same house, picture her with the spouse that’s drinking, because one of the things that I find is we, it’s kind of like you’re the good friend who can give all the right answers. But when it comes to your own life you have, you know, it’s a mess. And I find that when we reframe it to one of our children or someone we care deeply about in a, you know, kind of maternal way that we, this answers come to us. And when it’s your child, you’re very protective of your child and so you would protect your child and you take that, whatever that outline is of that, plan that you give your child in that situation and you apply it to yourself because you may not have that self protection instinct yet. But if you have it for your kid, and you can, you can picture it in that situation and then you apply it, all you have to do is apply it, you know, act as if that can be a road to success. Yeah.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  40:11

And I think it’s also okay to know that it’s going to be uncomfortable at first, and then it will get better in terms of, yes, not drinking, but also boundaries. I find a lot of women are very high achieving and successful. And one of the reasons they’ve gotten there is because they work really hard, and they take on a lot, and they always complete things. And also, I know it’s mother’s in the household, you know, we typically are, we’re making sure our kids are okay, and our spouse is okay. And we kind of get the dregs. Right, we feel especially if we work, but I think even if you’re home, actually, I think both right, because if you’re at home, you’re like, Well, I don’t work. And so you know, outside the home for income, so I should always be available for my kids, my spouse goes to work all day, right? Whatever. And if you work, you feel like you’ve been away from the kids all day, you’ve outsourced mothering. And therefore you should be available 24 hours, even evenings and weekends. 

 

And so you know, I remember when I was first stopping drinking, I decided to see a therapist. I had a lot of anxiety after the first couple months and shit was coming up that I had self medicated poorly. And so I found a therapist, and I was going to it from six to 7pm on Tuesdays, or whatever it is. And so I told my husband, you know, I need you to pick up both kids, they were in different places. I need you to get dinner for them, I will be home at 7:30. And he was like, every Tuesday, you know, like how long it’s gonna go on? Let’s ignore the fact that the guy, and he’s wonderful, is a baseball coach and a basketball coach didn’t get home till 7:30 or eight, for about six months straight. And with God for five hours every Saturday. I’m asking for an hour and a half on a Tuesday. And because he’s not used to it, exactly, he feels uncomfortable. Now that said a couple of weeks in, he gets into a routine. The kids and him are you know, roasting s’mores and hot dogs over the fire way better than when mom was doing it, you know, and so it shakes out. But I and I totally agree with you on hiring babysitters, because, or find what I did was I found a gym with childcare for like four bucks an hour. And so I would go there and I would swim some you know, I would go in the hot tub. Sometimes they had really nice leather couches and a lounge area, I would just read a book there, and my kids and childcare because my husband was gone. But like, deploy resources to make your life easier.

 

43:05

Yes. And I love that and I love you know, it’s it’s funny now because we’re on the other side of this, but I know I know personally even now, it can spark huge resentment when you when they balk at something that is literally so minuscule compared to all the things that you do it really it really can, you know, there’s rage there, right and leave it, you’re like, you can’t even believe that this is an issue. And it works better. Even though that is real there, whatever it works better to work that through that outside away from them than it is to try to hash out what you need right then and there and hash out the fact that they have no fucking clue how much you do and how much how much you keep track of and all the doctor’s appointments and all the things and whatever, that that’s not a good time to go through that. 

 

One thing I did for my girlfriend is I, I mapped out how much we spent how much I spend to outsource motherhood, what the cost is to literally outsource the jobs that I have to outsource as a full time working mom. And I gave this to her. And I said this is your job. This is what your job pays on the market. This is you know, this is where the low end, the middle and the high. This is the cost. These are the times this is what you bring to the table. This is how much you bring to the table. And she showed her husband and her husband actually had a real change of heart when he looked at the math and looked at it on paper about Oh, you’re right. You do have a job. It does pay. Because if you didn’t do this, this is what we would have to do. Yeah, yeah. And it’s like they don’t think of that. And that’s okay. It’s just, it’s something that I wouldn’t address in that moment where you’re asking for something, despite how you might feel about it.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  44:59

Well and the other thing to look at is, I mean, I drank seven nights a week. And I like to drink a bottle of wine sometimes more, right? So I got one of those “I’m done drinking apps” to calculate how much my wine was average cost, amount per week. Within my first month of not drinking, I saved $550 not consuming alcohol, once it was over $1000. And so I always tell women, like, deploy those resources, or set like, if you don’t have a housekeeper, or someone to clean your home, get one every two weeks, like, oh my god, that is amazing. hire a babysitter so you can do something else for you know, three hours on a Saturday, your kids actually probably love it. Because I know my kids like, when when I’m home, I’m always trying to multitask. When the girl from up the street comes, they’re actually playing Barbies and playing gait going, right. Right. But, you know, sometimes your husband’s resistant to changing their stuff. You can deploy that money. Yep, you and you can show them I showed my husband, dude, I’ve saved $1,000 in 60 days. Sometimes I might not do that. Because I wouldn’t want him to know just how

 

46:22

yeah, yeah, double edged sword. Dress me,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  46:25

you’re saving money. And so join a fitness class, do whatever. But you know, don’t feel bad about spending that money. Right? You are doing something incredibly healthy for yourself? And if you need to remove yourself from the 24/7 life for some hours, do it. 

 

Yeah, I mean it and people talk about it. Like if you if the machine breaks, it doesn’t produce the like, if you go down it, then all the things go right. So you have to service, you have to service the machine, you cannot go 24/7fFor however long and at some point you will crack. So these are important things. 

 

And I liked what you said about discomfort. We avoid, we are trying to avoid discomfort in so many ways. I know I mean, I speak for myself. So often I’m like, Oh, this is uncomfortable. And my brain tells me that’s bad. The truth is that life is not supposed to be comfortable at all times. That’s not the way of things right. I mean, I think about building muscle. Even in building muscle, you have to, the muscle has to rip and break and tear apart in order to rebuild stronger. Most of the growth I’ve ever done in my life has been because I was uncomfortable. And this period of time being uncomfortable, doesn’t mean it’s wrong, or you shouldn’t do it or you’re doing it wrong or any of those things. It’s okay to be uncomfortable. And frankly, what is going on is a lot of the time, look up PAWS, post acute withdrawal syndrome. So you have in the very, very beginning in the first two weeks coming off of alcohol or other substances, you have acute withdrawal, and that is the you know, that’s those are the big bucks where they just hit you hard and you’re sick and it’s all tired, and the anxiety, sleeping terribly. Sometimes people night sweats, right? Just exhausted. It’s the really intense piece, right? 

 

And then after that there’s something called post acute withdrawal syndrome, which basically is the secondary detox. And that is I like to describe it as like your brain is recalibrating. You’ve been adding in this substance, this chemical that’s affecting all the systems in your body and your brain is used to that it’s ready to go all its little workers are like okay, where’s the alcohol and when the alcohol doesn’t show up, it needs to recalibrate so your your endorphins, your serotonin, dopamine, all of that is going to change and it needs your brain was always looking for you know, homeostasis is always looking for balance. And you’ve now changed the balance drastically. So you can have things like irritability you know difficulty focusing panic, depression, sleep patterns, apathy, one of the things that’s interesting is like inability to feel like excitement and joy for a while, you know, stress OCD, you know, and cravings and some of those things this secondary recalibration can last and you know, not to scare you but they can last a lot longer. They do go away. They do go away. It does change in everybody’s brains depending on how much you were drinking, what you were drinking if you were using other things. what your life looks like, exercise will help you heal a lot faster. So if that is something if you are really uncomfortable, I highly suggest any kind of strenuous exercise will help the brain heal a lot faster.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  50:16

Now, what I’ve seen with a lot of my clients is it hits sometimes around 60 to 80 days, somewhere around there. And it seems to like descend for 10 days or so. And they sort of like feel like they’re in early sobriety again, or just down. And the dangerous thing there is, despite having felt so much better for two months, or, you know, after your first two weeks or 30 days anyway, they’ve been feeling better for five weeks, suddenly, they don’t feel well and you forget how bad you felt in hangovers, moderate, whatever. And they say, Well, I don’t feel any better. I might as well drink like, you know, yeah. And if you just hold out it lifts Have you seen it happen during a different time frame? Or how does, how do you see that showing up?

 

51:08

For me, it was six months, used to start drinking again at six months. It was like long enough a way that the how bad it was was you know, apparently, that’s when pause hit you. It’s six months. That’s when that yeah, that descending that for that built in forgetter. That you know, maybe it was different. It’s not that bad. The stress, the anxiety. All the things come back in right and a lot of the time for me the call it the itty bitty shitty committee in my head or K fuck radio. That’s but coronial fuck radio. 

 

Yeah. So that starts for me, my, the way I describe my disease is, or my problem personally is K fuck radio, I do all these things to turn it down and it gets less it, the sound goes down I the other radio waves are coming through. And when my disease and craving stress, all the other things came up, radio starts to turn up and it gets louder and louder and louder. And then it can’t hear the other things. And then I start to listen to kpop radio, right? And so pause for me, turns up K fuck radio. So I don’t I don’t necessarily even know that, oh, I’m more stressed I’m more this, I’m more that, all I know is that this thing in my head is turning up louder and louder and louder. And that’s my indicator that something’s going on. Because I struggle with connecting to my emotions at all personally, so that that’s how I know. 

 

But what happens for that piece for a lot of people is, you know, oh, I’m not feeling well right now. But you have evidence that you can feel better. And what’s really important is to have done the writing, I think a lot of the journaling and writing and I’m sure the work that you have people do and reviewing what you’ve written reviewing the work that you’ve done, to see what you have thought over the period of time that you stopped drinking, what one of the things that I’ve done is relapse prevention. And really I always laugh, relapse prevention, that means sobriety, any kind of sobriety is relapse prevention. By definition, it is relapse prevention, right. And there’s this guy, Terrence Gorski, and he has this workbook for relapse prevention and the work in the workbook, you do this mapping, relapse mapping. And you basically map out all the things that in previously have led you to decide to start drinking, and again, whatever that looks like. And I did it several times, and it’s incredible, you can map out, oh, I started to feel this. And I started Oh, but this happened. You can map it out six months in advance in this mapping process. And, you know, it doesn’t need to be this specific guy’s mapping process. It can be just looking through really going in with a magnifying glass. 

 

What is it that happened, that what happened a week before I drank what happened three weeks before I drank. And when you start to do that, you see that relapse is a process. It’s not an event. And I found there were key indicators that would happen before I was going to take that drink. And when I was able to go oh my gosh, this is it. It’s happening. It’s this right now. Then I knew to deploy my emergency action plan, right I’d call you know, I call you my coach. I couldn’t say help. It’s happening. I’m triggered bah, bah, these are the thoughts on the K fuck radios up so loud, I can barely hear you. What do we do? And that type of stuff is where you go over what you’ve written. You remember Why’d you know you remember why it was so bad? Hopefully you’ve written that out, you remember how you felt when you stopped in those good periods. And you see that this is temporary and learning to sit through discomfort. Learning to sit through temporary discomfort is vital to any kind of discipline or practice. 

 

Yeah,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  55:22

I mean, so many things you said are exactly what I think people should do as well. So when you were starting, you know, write down, write down the crappy part, write down why you want to do this, I still have a list. Yes, of how I felt, you know, that I was putting together on my phone notepad before I quit. Because like, I kept coming back to it in the morning, when I would be like, Jesus, I can’t do this anymore. And also, when I was stopping, like, I feel so sad. I feel so angry. I feel unable to cope with my life. Why am I so sad? Why do I feel like garbage in the morning? Why can’t I moderate? So writing all that down, and then writing down what you want to feel and do instead, where what you want your life to look like and feel like, but the other thing is, I think a journal is great. I wrote my coach. I emailed her like, every single day or five days a week, for a long time, like over a year. But what was great about that is you capture when you’re feeling good. And I do this on my weekly calls with my clients. So at 35 days, you might be like, Oh, my God, I feel so much better. I look better. My work is easier. I’m no longer taking my medications. Like, I feel happier. I’m more present with my kids, right? 

 

When post acute withdrawal syndrome hits, you’re gonna forget that. So you can write back and read that. And yes, usually when people drink, they’re like, I don’t know what happened. I just said, Fuck it, and I drank. And yet, once you go back, like you said, that’s not what happened. What happened was, you went to a party, and it was really hard to not drink and people said XYZ to you, then you were working way too hard. And your boss put all this shit on you and your husband wasn’t helping with the kids. And then your two year old had a total meltdown. And then you didn’t eat and then you stubbed your toe and then drink, right? Yep. And so when you’re going to drink, it doesn’t always sound like fuck it. I’m gonna drink sometimes it sounds like this is all too hard. Weights. No one is helping me. I can’t deal with this. 

 

Yes. It’s yeah, and motherhood. You know. Motherhood is a weight that is indescribable. And it really changes. I mean, I call my sobriety. I got sober when I was 19. And, and then I had kids when I was 10 years sober. And I call it my postpartum sobriety, my postpartum recovery. My recovery is not the same, I had to learn to do it all over again, I had to relearn how to, you know, quote, unquote, walk in sobriety, because doing it with children was, is and was so demanding, so incredibly encompassing, that I struggled so much, and had to relearn the tools in a different way. So if you’re struggling, to learn, to be, you know, to remove alcohol from your life in whatever capacity while doing all the things with kids, that kind of stuff. You are doing an incredibly difficult thing. And that’s coming from someone who did it when they were 10 years sober, and it was still incredibly difficult. I had all the tools, all the resources, and it was still difficult. However, it is 1,000% worth doing the difficult things, doing the hard things. 

 

And one of the pieces of that is that we’re teaching our children that we can do hard things. We’re teaching our children how to sit in discomfort. Why? Because we’re sitting in discomfort so we can actually tell them. I know you’re having a big feeling. I know this is really uncomfortable. I don’t like uncomfortable feelings, either. I was feeling very uncomfortable yesterday, but we can do this. And they see you doing difficult things over time. And believe it or not, that matters, that matters a lot. And what the kids see who see their parents drinking away their problems or whatever, what they see is that that is the coping skill. So sometimes you have to do this for other people in your head. You know, you’re saying, I gotta get through another day because that’s what I would. That’s what I want my kids to see. And then you wake up and it’s you have another 24 hours to see You know how you’re going to do it? And sometimes you have to not drink one minute at a time. I’m not gonna drink for this minute, 10 minutes, whatever it is. 

 

Yeah,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:00:09

I completely agree. I mean, I mean, the mom wine culture is so hard to resist in early sobriety, or when you have young kids, because that’s when you bond with people, that’s when people get together. It’s kind of the time when you bitch about how hard it is, and how unhelpful your partner is, which is the support and the camaraderie that you actually need. But in so much of our society, it’s centered around alcohol. And, you know, that’s because you can multitask when you’re drinking, right? You can bring your kids and they can play. I mean, it’s not great, but I certainly did it. And one of the things, so two things I want to say about this. 

 

One, I’ve done it both ways, right? The first time I stopped drinking, my son was five. So I was completely bought in to the mom wine culture, when I was little, like, bought the books that said, naptime is the new happy hour, right, like, brought all the wine for my son’s first birthday with my girlfriends, had to sleep over at friend’s house after a mom’s wine playdate, and literally had to stop my car with my kid who was 18 months, strapped to the car seat to throw up in a parking lot the next morning. So like, I did it. I also stopped drinking for the last time when my daughter was 22 months old. So I, it is not only possible, but it’s a lot easier to parent and to have patience and to deal when you’re not constantly hungover craving. You just need other help. Like it’s like, you need support, you need reassurance, you need your partner to help you more, you need time away from your screaming child, you know, you have to ask for and sometimes even not ask, tell them what is what you need. And what’s going to happen and assert, assert this because you’re as important as the rest of them, if not more important. 

 

And additionally, I think, you know, just my experience with mommy wine culture writers, I’ve gone to those parties too. And I don’t have wine in my glass and no one’s asking me what I have in my glass, I have a glass of some drink. No one is asking me what’s in there. And that may not be everybody’s experience. But if you’re concerned about being other, right, if you’re so worried, oh, well, how will I be friends with all these people? Again, it may not happen in the first 30 or 60 days. But my experience is that you can absolutely be in situations where you’re having that camaraderie and other people, you know, when you’re stable in this situation, and be able to be there and not do that. And it’s totally okay. That may not be something you want to do. But I’ve been at the sit around and watch other people tend to watch people definitely in the beginning. But yes, as you get further along like there are amazing, gorgeous bottles of sparkling Rose that tastes just lepers but that are 0.0. When I started, I told my girlfriends I wasn’t drinking. And when they suggested getting together for dinner happier I was I just was like, Hey, can we do brunch and a walk? Hey, let’s go to a yoga class together. I’m trying to get more exercise. And that was enough to shift it. You know what I mean? Just like someone will ask you something. And you’re allowed to propose option B. 

 

Yeah, yeah, a change of time. Everything doesn’t need to be around, you know, food and beverages.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:03:55

Yeah, completely. And so let’s talk about, you know, if your family is supportive, or neutral, or at least willing to change some stuff, what you should say to them, and what you should ask of them, because a lot of people don’t even know what to ask. And I tell the women I work with a couple things. I tell them in your first week, you are going to be first two weeks, whatever, you’re going to be incredibly tired, you’re going to be really irritated, you’re going to be pissed that you’re not drinking, you’re going to feel overwhelmed, because like everything is too fast and too loud, and you’re on this bubble around you. And you don’t have this, you know, reward at the end of the day. And so you really need to lower the bar and stay away from things that trigger resentment, overwhelm, anger, all those things. So I always say, you know, pretend you have the stomach flu. Like don’t go out. If you were throwing up, you wouldn’t go out. Tell your partner or that you’re doing a health kick, you’re removing alcohol. And you’re going to be really tired for the first week, like you read up on what it’s like to remove alcohol from your life and you’re going to be very, very tired. And you’re going to need to not do everything you’ve done before. So you’re going to need them to handle bedtime for a week, and you’re going to crave alcohol just like hey, you know, all this sober, curious stuff. Like, I want to try this. But here’s what I’m going to need for my first week, two weeks, whatever it is, what do you suggest in the first? 

 

So I love all the suggestions that you have, you know, like this, you know, assume you’re going to have the stomach flu. I have had a mentor who said underwhelm yourself, Ashley. Yeah. underwhelmed. So everything I did, everything I didn’t do. I tried to do the best, the highest whatever the most complicated situation, right? If I was going to go to the gym, I was going to work out for an hour and I was going to do, you know, cardio and weights. She said Ashley, underwhelm yourself, just walk into the gym, like just walk into the gym. What are you talking about, you know, if I’m gonna go on a walk, she says, just walk down the street, just look at and that was, you know, lowering the bar, but really thinking about it as underwhelming yourself. 

 

Because we are so overwhelmed that this thought of underwhelming, it almost seems, you know, it’s like, I’m not gonna go for a walk, that doesn’t count as exercise? Well, it does. And it’s just not overwhelmingly, you know, I have to do it this way, in this way. And so trying to really lower that bar, and explaining to your family that, you know, I’m going to take it easy, this is what it’s going to look like, here are the specific ways that you can support me Tuesday, so and so has a basketball game, I’m going to need you to pick her up and drive her there, you know, Wednesday, I’m going to be home. If you you know, I sometimes tell people if you can, to remove yourself from the house for a few days, go to a hotel, you know, stay with a friend, whatever it is, so that you don’t have to have those conversations, you just say I need you to handle this for a couple of days while I’m gone. And setting up a situation that is gentle and calm. And you know, you’re going to be a raw nerve as you’re coming off of this. And so what is what is, what would you do? And again, if you need to use a child as an example, like you think about what you would suggest for your child, if they were doing the same thing. And they were going to feel these things. How would you suggest they set up the first two weeks?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:07:40

I bet you’d have all the ideas of you know what they can do? Well, not only that, you know, I think you’re right, that by figuring out other ways to cope, you’re setting a good example for your children like for, you know, when I think back to when I was drinking, I remember over Christmas, I forget how old my son was, but let’s say three or four. I went to the grocery store with him and my mother in law. And my mother in law picked up a bottle of red wine. And my son said, Oh, for mommy. And she said yeah, for mommy and me. And he said, We better get another one. Meaning like it’s not going to be for mom, one bottle. And he was not wrong, you know? Good looking out. That’s what was hard. Now then again, when I was an early sobriety, I was driving him home. He was five from daycare, and I was like, totally wanting to drink and in a terrible mood and super sensitive and I just said to him, mommy’s really sad. She’s sad today. And he said, Mom, do you want to cuddle up on the couch? And just watch a movie and cuddle? And I was like, yes, that is what I want. And when my daughter I stopped when she was two, you know, later, they get anxiety. They have trouble sleeping, like my daughter’s in kindergarten or first grade. And she would talk to me about that. So I would put on meditations for kids at night and we would lay in the dark and hold hands and do the breathing. I mean, that’s great for her to learn versus mom’s drinking puts me to bed, rushes downstairs to finish the bottle of wine, you know?

 

1:09:25

Yep. And the kids are strangely, you know, aware of that. And my dad would say Well, that’s because they don’t have any of the responsibilities to focus on all they can focus all day on whatever it is that they want or noticing you are things in the house and we don’t realize that they are absorbing all of that and those you know, those things where you say I’m having a really hard day but I have a I have one of my boys is definitely highly sensitive. And he said to me this morning, Mommy, why do you, why does your face look like that? I said what baby? What do you mean? He says that mean face. And I said, Oh, honey, I was not, you know, I was not trying to be mean, I must not have known what my face looked like. And this is how I’m feeling and whatever. And the only reason he knows to say those things is because we talk about discomfort and those feelings and I’ll say to him, Mommy’s having a hard time right now I need five minutes by myself, and then I want to come and talk to you, or coming and apologizing for my, you know, apologizing, Mommy did not handle that well, things like this. They’re all things that you’re going to use in your sobriety tools that you’re going to use that are great for you. And they work really well with your kids. 

 

And that vulnerability, it feels like a weight lifted off when you speak like that. Because before it was just running away and trying to, you know, Rush everybody away. And when you say, I’m really having a hard time I’m really having a hard day. There’s this honesty to it, even if your kid you know doesn’t care. It just feels different. And I think with family, just the, especially if they’re supportive, is continuing to tell them how they can help you. It’s so important to communicate. And you can even say, I don’t know what I need right now. But I know that I’m supposed to go to a psychiatrist. Yeah. And maybe they say, Do you want me to help find a list? Do you want me to sit with you? While you make those phone calls? You can ask for some, hey, I cannot get this stupid task done. Can you come sit with me while I make these phone calls until it’s done? I, you know, I can’t figure out the timing on the kids activities. I really, really need your help. I’m going to send you this list. Can you please do this for me? And then I’ll take it over again, just really asking for exactly what you need. Because unfortunately, Pete, when you are so competent people rely on you to be that competent, they will and they assume you’re going to be the competent one and it’s difficult for them to change that dynamic. So you in some ways, your competence, you have to offer you have to offer them a you know a little bit of that so that they can help you be they will assume you’re going to be fine.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:12:20

Yeah. And in terms of like, there’s one thing about talking to them. There’s other things about just making the decision that your kid is not going to do swimming lessons, in addition to gymnastics right now. You are not going to sign up for XYZ, even though maybe it would be good. I remember vividly, the first summer after I stopped drinking. My son was in baseball, my husband’s a varsity baseball coach. And he wanted my son to play summer ball. And I mean, the kids ate. No offense, who cares? They’re not very good. I mean, anyway, I love him. He still plays, he’s 14. He’s very good. But, but my son was, my husband was like, he needs to play summer ball. And this has happened the year before we did it the year before I was drinking. And I was like, he was like, it’s really important. I was like, Okay, I don’t want to take this on. I have a two year old that I sit for three hours trying to entertain in the heat. You know, whatever. So I said, Are you going to take it on? And he was like, yep, yep, I’m gonna do it. I was like, great. What that means is you can’t play on your, your adult baseball team, and you can’t go fishing for two weeks. Because last year, you said you were going to take it on and XYZ and he was like, Well, I don’t want to do that. And I was like, Okay, if it’s not important enough for you not to do this shit, then it is not important enough period, you know. And I didn’t, it’s hard because I didn’t have plans during that time. It was like, I want to come home from work and not stay at a park for three hours with my two year old. I want to lay in the hammock. I want to read a book, I want to you know, whatever. I just don’t want to do that. And that’s hard. But like we do so much for our kids. A lot of times we do way too much.

 

1:14:20

Totally, totally. And learning to do those things for yourself and setting those boundaries build self esteem. And we often struggle with how you know our self esteem when we start this journey because we’re starting it for a reason. And that is the value of having a coach or having someone who’s accountable or walking you through or further along in the journey where they can say to you hey, this is what I did. This is what I said to my husband. Did you know that it’s okay to say no because you want to do nothing. Right like, you know, you’re not saying no because you have another plan. They did you know and sometimes we don’t know that we have we’re like, really? We can do that. That’s okay. Am I not? Is that going to screw up my kid is that going to, and you know, having someone who’s further in the journey who’s had to, you know, have those conversations and every time you, you stand up and you do that self care, and you make even if it’s a baby step, you are building self esteem by doing a streamable X. And as you build the self esteem as you build that self esteem callus almost, when the callus basically makes it so you don’t feel when other people are upset about it. It becomes easier and easier to get stronger. You see that the world doesn’t end, your marriage does not end. Because it’s amazing how well that people you know, they adapt, really they will adapt and and it’s scary at first but it makes dropping alcohol it makes quitting sugar makes quitting sick, whatever you want it it makes whatever it is, you’re going to do whatever that looks like for however long, it makes all of that easier. Yeah. When you have the self esteem to know that you can set up a scenario in your life that takes care of you. Yeah.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:16:09

And one of the things that I think is interesting, I just wanted to mention it is there’s definitely work to do with the therapist or with the coach because I remember and this is so crazy the way we unconsciously pick up why we think people love us or like us. And a lot of women are people pleasers and overachievers. But picture this, I was just starting to date my husband, I’m talking like 24, 25 years old. He mentioned to me that one of the reasons he loved me so much, and it was a compliment, was because I was always so happy and even and competent. So when I was very worried about my drinking, and I had crazy anxiety and felt like I couldn’t cope and was not happy, I didn’t want to tell him because I was afraid he wouldn’t love me because of that. And we’ve been married 14 years. I mean, just the amount of and I mentioned that to him, like a year or two later or whenever and he was like oh my god that’s fucking crazy. That was I don’t even remember making that one off comment at all, but I had like, absorbed it to the point where I felt like I couldn’t tell him that I needed on anti anxiety meds or whatever, you know? 

 

Yeah, yeah, no, that’s a that’s a perfect example because I think a lot so many of us especially listening to this we are where the competent ones and what happens when you are the saver a competent the person people come to you’ve got your shit together. And you feel like you’re falling apart and you start to tell pieces of my experience, you start to tell people and they’re like, you’ll be okay, you know, people almost don’t believe you that you’ll be fine. You’ll figure it out. And there’s this lack of willingness to see that it’s possible that you of all people could really fall apart and I found that to be really scary. And one of my experiences in sobriety was that a couple years ago right after 2020. So 2020 I basically, I had a crazy year as everyone did and I was I felt that I didn’t deserve to feel badly about my life because around us and yes you know other people were suffering so much more than me and I was so blessed and I had year old twins at home, I had all my five not

 

1:18:47

three year old twins at home my company as a result of the pain and misery of the world tripled in size in one quarter oh my god and in the world was just blowing up right it was so intense so stuck inside with three year olds that alone and I but I just I just was like I’m fine. I’m fine, I’m fine, I’m fine. I’m fine. I’m fine until I was not fine. And in my relationship I am, I was the competent, the breadwinner, the all the things. I took care of everything, I paid all the bills like everything. And my husband is more of the like, you know, cool guy who you know are more artistic and more fun and all these things right? And I said I have to go somewhere for 30 days. I have to like in order to stay sober. I have to go somewhere I am not okay. And this was, I took 15 years sober. And I went to it’s not exactly a treatment center but like I went to this place where I was where I basically decompressed and worked on my anxiety and worked on this stuff because I was really falling apart. And lo and behold since that’s happened, since I went away for 30 days and was not there, my husband is almost more competent than I am these days. He took over. He had to. And so he did. 

 

And we have this really amazing relationship. Now, that is so equal in some ways, sometimes he, we have conversations where he yells at me, because he’s doing all the work and I don’t do all the housework, and I don’t notice or acknowledge it. And I literally, I mean, if you’re listening, if you have the experience of like, I do all the housework and no one notices. And he, you know, I just want him to experience this. And I’ll look at him, like, I know how terrible that feels. And it, I think that the moral of the story for me was that people will rise to the occasion. And you can, you can fall apart and people will rise to the occasion. And you just have to trust that that’s what’s going to happen. And sometimes that’s what you need to do. And as the competent person, it feels completely impossible. And I was like, I can’t leave work for 30, I can’t do that for three. I can’t. I mean, it was literally not unimaginable. I plan to go for a week. And I ended up staying for 30 days. So again, that’s a very specific situation. But the moral of the story, you can raise your hand and get help before you get to that breaking point. Right?

 

1:21:32

Like totally. And mine was raising my hand before I got to drinking. Yes. So that was, yeah, I did it. It was just, it was disruptive. But I did it. And I found that all the things I was worried about worked themselves out, all the people I was worried I was going to disappoint, all the things that asking for what I needed. And knowing that I needed something more intense or knowing that I needed something to happen in order to take care of myself. And demanding that is the thing that you know, now kept me sober. And sometimes you have to do drastic things or ask for things and I just, I always say you are, you will be amazed at how the people who love you and support you are able to show up when it really counts. Like they, they have it in them. We just have made it so that they didn’t have to have, they didn’t have to show us it.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:22:30

Well, and so I hope if someone’s listening to this, what they take away is that how your family and friends can support you is about so much more than removing the alcohol or reminding you not to drink or getting you a non alcoholic drink. Like first of all, that’s amazing. Do that, you know what I mean? Family and friends that don’t pressure someone to drink, don’t tell them they’re overreacting just be like, good for you. But beyond that, how they can support you when you’re going alcohol free time taking care of you, allowing you to go to therapy, to have time off to go to yoga, to do whatever, letting you set boundaries in every area of your life and respecting them and so much more.

 

1:23:23

Yeah, yeah and really asking your person what it is that you can do to support them you might be something they may have a really great answer that you didn’t think of and and then you can be extraordinarily helpful or reminding people that hey, when’s the last time you went on a walk? Do you want to go on a walk? You know, what can I, can I pick something up for you and treating them, your person, like a sick kind of like you said treating, treating your loved one like they’re sick like they have a you know an illness and they’re recovering their bodies recovering and also treating yourself that way. Right? It is like, hey, my body is recovering. And that is accurate. Your body is recovering from alcohol, it’s literally recovering. Yes, it literally does damage to your body. 

 

Yeah, yeah. Oh, I love this conversation. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your expertise and helping people with suggestions. 

 

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. 

 

Well, so how can people find you, learn about Lionrock, get support, all the, listen to your podcast, which I adore. All the good? 

 

Yes, absolutely.

 

1:24:30

So the podcast is called The Courage to Change: A Recovery Podcast and we talk about all sorts of different recovery and you can find us on Instagram @couragetochange_podcast. You can find me on Instagram @AshleyLoebBlassingame. And you can find the podcast at www.Lionrock.life.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:24:59

We’ll put all of those links in the show notes. So if you didn’t get them because you’re walking or driving or anything else, just go to this episode where you’re listening and you can find that. All right, thank you so much.

 

1:25:12

Thank you.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:25:14