SUMMARY KEYWORDS

wine industry, marketing strategies, alcohol freedom, drinking culture, bariatric surgery, alcohol addiction, non-alcoholic options, sober community, alcohol-free lifestyle, wine clubs, influencer marketing, alcohol-free identity, alcohol-free weekend, alcohol-free resources, alcohol-free benefits, red wine, drinker, stop drinking, alcohol-free, non-alcoholic, anti-alcohol

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Ruby Williams

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a bus, how to sit with your emotions, when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Hey there. Today, we are talking about

 

the wine industry and how they use really sophisticated sales and marketing strategies to target women and to target moms, in particular, to grow their sales, grow their market share and everything else.

 

As an ex red wine girl who went on wine tasting weekends everywhere around the world and identified as being a red wine drinker as sort of a core personality trait, stepping away from drinking and looking back at the way I integrated it into my life, into my identity, and why that happened is something that is really interesting.

 

And I think the more we are aware of the marketing strategies that are targeting us, the smarter we can be about our decisions.

 

My guest today is Ruby Williams. She’s a certified Alcohol Freedom Coach and the owner of Freedom Renegade Coaching.

 

She worked in the wine industry for 20 years in a bunch of roles, from Finance to Sales to Marketing, and I think she’s the perfect person to have this conversation with me, because she has been on the inside.

 

Ruby lives in Northern California, in the wine country. She drank daily to cope with a stressful corporate job in the alcohol industry and the challenges of single motherhood.

After weight loss surgery, her food addiction transferred to alcohol use disorder, and discovering Annie Grace’s book, The Snake Of Mine, at the age of 49 was the turning point in her journey to freedom for alcohol.

 

So Ruby, welcome. I’m really glad you’re here.

 

Ruby Williams  03:08

Oh, I was so excited to be here. Thank you. Casey.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  03:13

Well, just to start with you, tell us about what it was like working in the wine industry.

 

Ruby Williams  03:23

Absolutely! So, working in the wine industry, you feel like it’s the coolest job ever, like my dream job, and because all the cool people were working there and drinking, and everybody’s drinking, you can drink in the morning, there was wine tastings in the morning at work, you could drink with your boss at lunch.

 

There were dinner events. There were afternoon events. You could at any point, say, I think I’m going to taste the new Pinot and walk down to the tasting room and drink at any time. You basically could drink at any time. So, it’s a very, you know, I know there are some other cultures, or work cultures, where they have, like bars, but usually it’s more for specific times. And in the wine industry, it can be morning, mid-morning, lunch, afternoon, evening, anytime.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  04:20

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I would think that anyone who worked at a restaurant or a bar would have that experience. I felt like I worked in a really boozy culture when I was in tech startups. But you’re right, they had the bar cart that came around on Thursdays at 4 o’clock, not morning, noon and night. Or, you know, we would, when I was working past 6pm I’d go get dinner and bring a bottle of wine back to my office if I had a couple hours left. But nothing like what you’re describing. And was there anyone you worked with who had stopped drinking or didn’t drink at all?

 

Ruby Williams  04:58

Not that I was aware of it. There probably were, but those people kept quiet. It was, it was like, expected. I mean, the few times I knew I had a problem for like, 7 years. I would say about seven years where I knew and I was trying on my own, and I remember I would maybe get a couple days, and then there’d be a tasting, and I couldn’t. I would be, like, Okay, it’s part of my job. I have to taste the wines. Well, also an excuse, right?

 

I really, I’m working in Finance, or I’m working in sales. I do, I have to, not really, but, you know, um, dude would also, I forgot this part. They would put whole bottles and big bottles of, say, like absolute vodka on your desk in the mornings or just randomly. So why would they put absolute vodka on your – Oh, I worked for Pino Ricard, the owner of.

 

So, yeah, so the winery said I worked in the wine industry for 20 years. I started at core Bell champagne sellers for about 15 of those, and then they also own Kenwood winery. And then I switched when they sold Ken went to Penno Ricard, which owns, like, absolute, and they have like, 25,000 employees. It’s huge, global company.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  06:08

Yeah, that’s so interesting when you said absolute, because I went to boarding school when I was 14. So, my freshman year, I lived in a room with a girl, and the absolute ads were like, art. Do you remember they used to have those ads of the bottle? And it was like they were gorgeous. Artist piece with different themes. She had her entire wall, like wallpapered with absolute ads. And they were gorgeous. I thought they were so cool, but we were 14 at the time, and we would go through magazines, and if I found a new ad, I would rip it out and give it to her.

 

So, when we talk about, like, how the alcohol industry brainwashes you to believe these brands and this alcohol is cool and amazing, and you need to drink them because they’re just, it’s aspirational. I mean that to me, is like a huge example, more than my parents having wine on the table every night at dinner when I was growing up, right?

 

Ruby Williams  07:12

It’s nuanced, and it’s about selling, because really, there’s, they’re selling a yellow liquid or clear liquid, or a red, you know, liquid and it’s, it’s about making it, yeah, cool, luxurious, the cool, you know, the fun, the fun people, the beautiful people.

 

So, when I was working in marketing and sales, I would get, got to choose, like, you know, the models with the ads, and, yeah, you want to pick the most beautiful looking people and doing, really, you know, the wearing the right clothes, and they’re in the wine country, which is a beautiful location. We wanted to get, you know, this the shots of the product. It’s about product placement, too.

 

Now, I’m alcohol-free, and I look at things so differently, like I literally just totally differently. I see it before I would see on social media people posting their wine glasses in their bottles and having fun. And now that I look at it from a different lens. It’s, it truly is everywhere. Subliminally, it’s everywhere. And every, oh yeah, every TV show, like, absolutely everywhere.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  08:31

Yeah. So, oh my gosh. And I want to talk about all of this because I worked in Marketing as well for 20 years. I worked in a bunch of different industries, but my last role was at L’Oréal so similar in terms of high end luxury lifestyle beauty brand targeted at women, and the amount of research and focus groups and testing.

We did and segmenting of customers like, okay, how can we capture the over 50 women? How can we capture the teenagers? How can we build brand awareness? How can we build loyalty, like the different models, the different angles? It wasn’t just that we did it intentionally, it’s that we literally tested every single thing to optimize purchases and return purchases and customer loyalty. And the more that you know about why they do it, and also the bottom line of why they do it is because they need to keep growing their profits so they are looking around to say, who specifically can we target to get reliant, dependent, especially on an addictive substance, but incredibly loyal, more share of wallet with different groups.

 

And the wine industry did this very strategically. Starting, I’m sure before the 80s, but I know about it, you know, very detailed in the 80s, and so talk to me about. You were in Finance, so you had the financial look at, oh, gosh, this, this segment is declining, these Sales are declining, these are booming, as well as Sales and Marketing. So, tell me what the mindset was in those companies that you were working for?

 

Ruby Williams  10:21

I would say the biggest thing that happened was the wine clubs. Those were kind of, they, like, they didn’t that was all kind of, now there’s, like, clubs and memberships, but that was a new kind of thing, and it’s very about exclusivity and that if, if you join the wine club, then you get uh, certain bottles, that it’s exclusively to wine club members only, and there’s only a limited production, um, things like, I’m trying to think of some specific examples, Like, after I remember.

 

Okay, so here’s an example of what I did, particularly is they were going to get rid of all these little 187 you know, the small bottles of champagne they weren’t selling. And I came up with, let’s call these wedding favors, or bachelorette party favors or baby shower favors. So, I was particularly marketing that very specific women, young women, right? And once you have a little just use the core Bell brand, then that brand, if it’s with your wedding, you’re going to maybe have all new customers. They’ll be very loyal. Then the next initiative that I did was, once you kind of get them in, you then do marketing. All the images for probably two years I was helping with were about, you need to start every single family celebration, every single party, every single anything with a glass of champagne.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  12:08

And it was all about champagne. It’s not just for New Year’s Eve. You can have this daily.

 

Ruby Williams  12:13

Yeah, and then I started doing marketing campaigns around stock up for the summer. Stop using words like stock up. And because I was in charge of the Web Store, you know, the E line, the online store, for about six years, I was the manager of that. So that was about bulk. And then we wanted to get to more, you know, more states so very I was also very involved with compliance and the state taxes and different compliance, you know, has some states you can only buy liquor at liquor stores. And, yeah, every state’s different. Was very involved with that for about 10 or 15 years, because you want to get it to their doorstep. You know, that’s all also new, too. In fact, well, since the pandemic, now, people can really buy, you know, just buy from their local grocery a lot of people, I don’t know if it’s an interesting, but you can just go right onto your local grocery store, check a couple boxes of you can order it.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  13:18

You can have it come to your home. That didn’t used to be the case. You know, it’s interesting. I was also in E commerce with the online store. I was the director of E-commerce for L’Oréal and couple other brands, and we had our annual marketing plan, like every single year, and figuring out what the events are so you can drive sales in January, in the spring, in the summer, holiday was huge. Like my husband at some point, was like, Can you please stop calling Thanksgiving early Black Friday? And I was like, I can’t. I literally cannot stop calling it that.

 

So, it really does take over your life. And we had daily sales goals, including how much of you can increase the sales and profit margin, daily, weekly, monthly.

 

And so, when you think about that, and when you think about why you believe that champagne goes with New Year’s Eve and that mimosas are a morning drink, and that red wine goes with steak, and that, you know, all of that is fish, and it’s all sophisticated and all that kinds of things like this isn’t accidental. This is decades and decades of convincing you that you need to drink this alcoholic beverage in the same way that tobacco used to have the ads with you know, four or five doctors smoke Marlboros or whatever it is, in their white coats?

 

Ruby Williams  14:46

Yeah, I love when we compare the tobacco industry now to the alcohol industry, and I think it’s moving in that direction, you know, where we’re going to have awareness, because it’s actually, can’t, you know, causes cancer and all these health issues. Um. Oh my gosh, I love this conversation. Casey, you know what? I’m just like, I told you that I spent like four hours last night digging into all the data, including diving really deep into the 2024 alcohol industry report, the state of the wine industry and the macro factors about the moderation message.

 

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  15:03

Okay, so we’re going to dive into this. But my favorite quote from that for real, talks about, you know, the macro factors that are, hey. The good news is the wine industry is fucking freaking out because their sales are diving. The only people where they have increased sales are literally baby boomers, like people who are 60, 70, 80, years old, are consuming wine in a hugely problematic manner, but also Gen X. I’m Gen X, and they’re all these reasons for it, but they are very concerned that the younger generations consume wine differently, that they are choosing to sometimes, quote, unquote, Nightmare, abstain from alcohol. And the line that I had to highlight was in this executive summary, they said the anti-alcohol lobby, led by the World Health Organization. So apparently, the bad guy in this is the World Health Organization is having success with its message, literally, dash, truthful or not.

 

That’s what they said that there is no safe amount of alcohol to drink, like I don’t know why this message is getting through. We’ve got to fucking stop the World Health Organization, because they are spreading this bullshit that people are actually believing that there’s no safe amount of alcohol to drink. And by the way, this is terrible, because it’s driving our sales down. It’ll drive ourselves down.

 

Ruby Williams  16:55

Yeah, yeah. I have a similar quote. If you’re interested, I’m interested. Yeah, so I went, I can’t even believe I’m telling you this, because it’s crazy, but I a couple years ago, I decided to rent a booth at the wine the Sonoma County wine Expo, and my booth was to be alcohol-free.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  17:18

Why?

 

Ruby Williams  17:18

I wanted to be a badass.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  17:20

Oh, okay, this is after you left the wine industry.

 

Ruby Williams  17:25

Yeah, this is a couple years ago, yeah. So, I actually rented, I got one of the booths. And so I get their messaging, by the way, this is my like. Lead up to why I have this, I get their emails, and basically they said that they were going to have this special series where they were going to review a recent consumer research study detailing the challenges of attracting new wine drinkers and the misinformation propagated by the anti-alcohol lobbyists.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  17:56

Jesus Christ, the misinformation.

 

Ruby Williams  17:59

I know, and then in quotes, it says, I believe that any reasonable person who has been following the news cannot help but see that the wine industry is in danger. When the World Health Organization says that no amount of alcohol, not a single drop of wine is safe, it’s time to pay attention.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  18:17

So, I mean, the who, by the way, I am pissed at the World Health Organization because they knew for over a decade that alcohol causes cancer and that no amount of alcohol is safe, and they did not release that information until 2020 right? They knew for a decade before that.

 

Ruby Williams  18:35

I think it’s even longer than that. I mean, from my research that I think it was 1986 Wow, that it’s a carcinogen anyway, you know?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  18:46

Yeah, so it’s which is basically what tobacco is, and asbestos is a carcinogen. I mean, so they knew that, and we can talk about why the who did not share that message earlier, or why there are not labels stating that information on alcohol, though, some countries are changing that, notably Ireland, and it’s because they give so much money to politicians to keep that quiet the lobbyists.

 

Ruby Williams  19:16

Yes, and if Everybody’s, I mean, I think about this a lot, because if even the people in the who are drinking alcohol and they’re addicted, it’s like people feel like they’re, you know, being fake, you know, and I’m using the wrong what’s the word I’m thinking of?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  19:41

Well, they, they don’t want to believe it, right? Nobody wants to believe that their drug of choice is actually dangerous. And, you know, they want, or they say, and they believe, like everything in moderation, and you know it is good for your health. You know health. Okay, I’m going to read this, and then I really want to talk about whether they’re what. Were people within the companies you were with who were worried about the health information, who actually believed the health information, or who were actively trying to suppress the health information, you know, directly or indirectly.

 

But let me read what the 2024 state of the wine industry report said on this topic.

 

So, the moderation message doesn’t work for the alcohol for the anti-alcohol movement in the 1990s attention was drawn to the headline in question when the 60 minutes aired the French paradox, which I remember very well. I remember the conclusion seen by those watching it was that wine did have health benefits. Now, by the way, that data among the French paradox has been disproven time and time and time again. It is total bullshit. But that information everybody wants to believe, what helps them keep consuming a substance there, you know, in a small or major or moderate way, addicted to so and then they say the Mediterranean diet and other work that proved, proved moderate alcohol consumption improved heart health also received substantial press coverage at the time.

 

Now, as someone who, like, grew up, you know, went to college in the 90s, I was like, Yeah, I heard that constantly.

 

I believe that Gallup told consumers views on health of alcohol in 2018 and 2023 those over 55 who may have seen the 60 minutes broadcast, have kept their views mostly the same, which, by the way, the biggest consumers of wine and alcohol, the anti-alcohol MESSAGE FROM THE who is working though more than half of younger consumers have now concluded that consuming alcohol, even in moderation, is bad for your health. So, we are supposed to believe that one single 60 minute episode from the 1990s is what we’re supposed to buy into, not the World Health Organization and every piece of data that has come out in the last 35 years, right?

 

Ruby Williams  22:15

Yeah, and I mean, I’m relating to everything you’re saying, and from a person who, yes, was I started, you know, working in the wine industry in 20 and 2000 but yeah, I started drinking in the 1990s and I remember that episode. The thing is, is that we, we believe it like, we look so when you are on social media now, or even when you were looking at news, we’ll go back to old newspapers, back in the day, in the 90s, like you were looking at the things that supported your own beliefs. Yeah, you absolutely had a bias.

 

So, to answer your question, I, even when I was working in the sales and marketing around wine and alcohol, I would totally just gravitate to all of the articles that said, wine is good for your heart. Oh, me too, Mediterranean so. And then, if I happen to see, what about the French? Yeah, the front. Yeah, the French of the Italians. But if I happen to see an article that says, Oh, it might cause breast cancer, I would quickly shut that. Nope, not going to. No, put my fingers in my ears, right? Like, I’m not going to look at that article because I want to keep drinking.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  23:29

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know what’s interesting? So, I live, I’m sure it’s why I moved here. I live 3 miles from over 150 wine tasting rooms. So, I live near Woodinville, Washington, 3 miles away. It is the biggest wine tasting region east of east of the mountains in the state of Washington, and my absolute favorite wine was Chateau se Michel Sera. Now they’re very close to me. They do huge concerts. Their winery is gorgeous.

 

I started looking into what were the most successful Marketing campaigns targeting women and moms in history, and it literally came up with brands like Chateau semi shell leverage the idea that moms need wine.

 

Oh my God, I so need a glass of wine, or I’m going to sell my kids like these online groups with huge following, embedding the idea that wine is deserved and a break for mothers and the winery that is right next to me, that was my preferred wine. I used to buy, like freaking the 6 pack of wine every single week, of Chateau, save me show wine at my grocery store.

 

Leverage this by using interactive campaigns that encourage women to share how they enjoy wine, making them feel understood by the brand. The Marketing approach was designed to engage women, rather than just to sell to them, proved highly effective in building loyalty among women aged 25 to 38 especially those juggling motherhood and careers. And I stopped drinking when I was 40 and was completely bought into that and was a working mom with a high powered job.

 

I mean, when I read this, I was like, of all the fucking campaigns and all the freaking brands, the one, 3 miles for me, that was my preferred wine, was the one who, you know, had one of the most successful interactive campaigns in history.

 

Ruby Williams  25:38

That’s so crazy, and it’s so true, what came to my mind when you were talking was like, the rosé all day. Oh, god, my brand did, right?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  25:49

We could talk about swag that your brand was like, let’s create the swag we did.

 

Ruby Williams  25:54

We had the Rosé all day. Rosé day. All day was our thing. It became very, you know, the most popular, it was the pink color, oh yeah, feminine. And then the yeah, the mommy culture, the mommy wine culture, breaks my heart now, but I mean, I was a part of all of that.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  26:12

I feel like we need to have self-compassion for us, right? Like, I was a Sociology major. People like societies embrace beliefs for a reason, and when you have this, like circular firing squad or complete, you know, brainwashing of us to believe that this is true, of course, we’re going to buy into it. It wasn’t until I got away from it that I was like, holy shit. And the amazing thing was, is I blamed myself, not the alcohol companies, not the freaking addictive substance, because that’s what you want to do. I was like, why? I mean the quote I hear from clients more often than anyone else, is, why can’t I drink like a normal person? You hear that all the time, right?

 

Ruby Williams  27:01

Yeah, so let’s… This is a great segue. Yeah, do it.

 

What’s on every single bottle and every single ad and every single copy is drink responsibly, and that actually is putting the ownership on the person. The winery is like, No, it’s not me, it’s not the alcohol, it’s you. If you can’t be a normal drinker, it’s your fault that.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  27:24

And even the signage, you know, in the bathroom, restaurants and in the bars, it basically says, drink responsibly. Don’t drink and drive and don’t drink if you’re pregnant, although, like you said, give out the champagne and baby showers, right? Because everyone else can drink but pregnant, but, yeah, well, people actually told me in my third trimester that I could have a glass of wine a week. And me too.

 

My mother told me before I got pregnant, because she wanted me to get pregnant, and I think she was, I mean, no, Casey doesn’t have a problem. She literally thought this was stopping me from getting pregnant. She was like, Casey, you know, when you’re breastfeeding, you can have a glass of red wine to let the milk down. Like, what the actual I remember

 

Ruby Williams  28:10

hearing that too. It’s so crazy. Yeah, uh oh my gosh, we’re it’s all misinformation. Where is this coming from?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  28:19

And then you said that they’re worried about combating, quote, unquote, the “misinformation”. Like, this is a serious concern.

 

Ruby Williams  28:26

It is. Yes.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  28:28

Yeah, tell me more so for entire society, for I mean, when you look at some of the figures alcohol addiction or people being drunk, it’s what’s the, you know, the police force is using.

 

Ruby Williams  28:30

It’s what’s happening when there’s, like, you know, any kind of violence. It’s usually alcohol involved.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  28:51

If there’s sexual assault, right?

 

Ruby Williams  28:54

Yeah, I mean, it’s just they, it’s so prevalent and that it’s causing, and cancers, and addiction, which is a serious, serious issue, which is, you know, we talk about alcohol use disorder, not the term alcoholic, which isn’t a medical term, but alcohol use disorder, mild, moderate and severe, and most people progress along that line, from one to the other to the other, depending on what you consume.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  29:02

Now I have a question from you, for you as an insider.

 

So, I have this theory, and it may not be true, but I believe that alcohol companies love the way society is set up. The idea of there is this alcoholic over there, and God forbid, you should fall into that category, and everybody else over here is just fine. So, the fact that there is a, you know, you don’t want to be an alcoholic, but you’re cool, as long as you’re not which, by the way, that line, you know, clearly. Severe alcohol use disorder.

 

I don’t use the term alcoholic, but that line is pretty fucking far down the path of, like, serious health and lifestyle consequences. So, the idea that like that over here is the line you should be concerned about, like, 9 out of 10. Not like, I don’t know, 6 out of 10 is like that benefits the alcohol industry.

 

Ruby Williams  30:24

Absolutely. And if we use the word, and I’m going to use you can’t see me, but I’m using air quotes of the word alcoholic, yeah, that I used to think an alcoholic is like a bum outside of a liquor store with the paper bag, and they’ve lost their job, they’ve lost their family, they’ve lost their you know, that is, that’s it. But that’s so far down, right? I love that we’re talking now like, Finally, we’re like, Well, how do you feel? You know, could stop drinking alcohol if it makes you feel bad? Or, you know, you don’t have to, you don’t have to go down that, that, you know, way down the ladder of being an addiction. You could catch it early. Catch it way early. I mean, that’s my biggest regret, is, why didn’t I do this sooner?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  31:10

But I did it when I did it, you know, well and honestly, like, the first time I tried to stop drinking, seriously. I had been worried about my drinking for like, a long time. I think the first time I tried to, like, Seriously, stop drinking. My son was 5. I had been worried that, like, I, you know, am I an alcoholic? Am I not? Because that was my black and white thinking when he was, like, a year old, I had been trying to quote, unquote, “control my drinking”, not binge drink, not throw up. Since I was, like, right out of college, I threw up all the time and was hungover in college, but I wasn’t trying to control that until I had a job I needed to get to. But when I was when my son was 5, which was 11 to 12 years ago. Is that true? 11 years ago?

 

He’s 16, there was nothing out there, there was no sober curious movement, like I said, there was almost no information on the mental health aspect. I didn’t know it caused anxiety. I didn’t know it caused depression. I didn’t know I knew you shouldn’t drink when you were on antidepressants or anti-anxiety meds, but I never listened to that. Had heard nothing about cancer. You know, I still bought into the quote, unquote, “French paradox” because I wanted to, I thought the only thing I needed to do was stop drinking so much. I needed to drink less so that I didn’t get hung over, so that I didn’t not remember evenings or embarrass myself.

 

Ruby Williams  32:41

Yeah, and I thought I needed from somewhere, a 30 day reset. That was like, something in my I don’t know where it came from, if you, if you stop drinking for 30 days and you’ll reset your brain. Or I don’t know where, I don’t even know where this came from. And but, like I said, once I got to about 30 days alcohol free, I was like, I feel amazing. I’m going to keep going.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  33:04

You know, that was what actually happened to me. Yeah, and some of you know, just so you look at the context, I know that I started to try to stop drinking when I was like, 37. Finally stopped when I was 40. I went to college, you know, graduated 97 so I came up in the corporate working world in the 2000s and 2010 the biggest momentum that drove wine drinking with the female friendly messages, happened in the 20 twins in the 2010s and, you know, the pinking we talked about of alcohol, but wine brands also.

 

I think it was the rise of the influencers. Leveraged influencer collaborations and social media on Instagram and Pinterest to target women. And I read that silver oak sellers, which was one of the best campaigns, they had in terms of numbers, grew their Instagram following to over 50,000 which created all this brand loyalty among women, right? And that is targeted.

 

Ruby Williams  34:17

Yeah, it is,. They live that wine industries went after women specifically, because that was the market that could, that had room. I mean, there was, like, it really was, like you said in the beginning of this recording, like there was a specific target towards those women. And it’s beautiful people, it’s the influencers. It’s, you want to be like them, so you want to drink whatever they’re drinking, and wear whatever they’re wearing. And it’s, it’s so true, what you’re saying, everything you’re saying is so true.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  34:53

Yeah, I will link in the show notes to some of these articles, because they’re actually very fascinating, especially if you’re a marketer.

 

Yeah. But, you know, there’s an ad company that talks about the best wine marketing campaigns, the secrets of successful wine marketing campaigns, and talks about, you know, the key takeaways of how to do it, innovative wine strategies, storytelling through packaging, social media engagement, talking about influencer collaborations, you know, augmented reality experiences.

 

This is why you get addicted to alcohol, right? It’s very, very calculated.

 

Ruby Williams  35:37

Very calculated. And just also from a personal experience going, like, wine tasting, you want to be a part of that. Like we, as human beings, we want to be a part of the tribe, especially women. We have our women friends, women, mom, mom groups. And what I hear a lot of times with clients is like they want to be a part of the group. How can they? They’ll be ostracized. They won’t be a part of the group if they’re not drinking. And then you go to, like, a little kid birthday party.

 

I remember one client like, I have to serve alcohol at my one year or 3 year old’s birthday party, and I’m like, Do you really like so it’s like, it’s, it’s so crazy that we have to serve but I remember just specifically for me, personally, my little personal story. I had a friend. I’m a I was a single mom. My son’s now 26, so 10 years older than yours. But I remember she would watch my son after school, and then I’d go to pick him up. And it was just like, this thing. It was like, let’s have red wine. And it was like, it just became every day. Then it wasn’t, wasn’t just one glass. Then it was like, two glasses, you know, and then I would continue to drink when I got home, you know, it got it just, you mentioned it a little earlier, but it gets pretty bad, meaning I okay. I didn’t share this yet. But can I share a little bit about my bariatric surgery? Because I think it’s important for my. Yeah, that. Um, so I don’t know if people know, but weight loss surgery, or bariatric surgery, it’s completely different how your body reacts after you have surgery, like, physically, your bodies change, your stomachs goes right into your bloodstream.

 

So, I was probably on that like trajectory towards alcohol use disorder, but after the surgery, it happened overnight.

 

And, yeah, I just wanted to say that, because it’s so important to me to get that message across.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  37:40

Because, yeah, that like people have to be aware, I know that people with ADHD are 5x  more likely to suffer from addiction, and about 50% of people with ADHD struggle with addiction. And tell me what the stats are for bariatric or weight loss surgery?

 

Ruby Williams  38:01

Well, it’s one in five, but I actually think it’s a lot higher than that. That’s probably what people that reported it, you know, I think it’s a lot higher.

 

When I look at some of my friends that have had surgeries, I feel like the number might be as high as half, because for multiple reasons. One reason is literally the physical part of the like body has changed, the stomach, like I said, it goes directly, and there’s less enzymes to break it down. It goes right into the bloodstream, which means I felt like my body all of a sudden, felt the alcohol buzz like instantly, and then it went away faster. So that’s the really important piece.

 

So, I’d have my second glass way faster, and third glass and fourth glass, it would go away. The other piece is mental. If you were maybe an emotional eater, and then now you cannot eat. You can only eat, like, you know, a couple tablespoons of food, but you could drink water or alcohol, then you’re going to it’s, it’s called, like a transference of addiction, where all of a sudden you are numbing your emotional pain or whatever, whatever you’re using. Alcohol for our food when you’re not doing the work to deal with the underlying problems.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson 

Hi there. If you’re listening to this episode, and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit.

 

The Sobriety Starter Kit is an online self study sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step by step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one on one coaching. And the sobriety starter kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it. And when it fits into your schedule. You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time.

This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step by step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking, from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better. You’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach, you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course. 

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  39:12

Exactly that led you to wanting to numb. So, when you take away one substance and you don’t deal with the underlying issues, you need something else. And alcohol is a really easy way to do it. It literally shuts off your brain, right? Literally.

 

Ruby Williams  39:34

And here’s what, oh, go ahead, yeah. Oh no.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  39:39

Well, what I read is you said one in five, which is 25% I totally agree with you that it’s understated. I found an NH NIH article that I also believe it’s understated, but it said 33% of bariatric surgery patients develop alcohol use disorder with a peak on. Onset two years after surgery. Yeah, and up to 5% develop alcohol associated liver disease and cirrhosis, which is, you know, deadly, deadly.

 

Ruby Williams  40:13

I’ve known people that have had a bariatric surgery and have had liver disease and have passed away. It’s very sad, though, really.

 

Yeah, this is really, really, want to help these people. Because, yes, working on doing the work, right, rather than having like this. You know what? We are people like, I have the surgery, so I’m a person just wanted a quick fix. We want these like, quick fixes, yeah, instant gratification, so to speak and but doing the work to finding underlying reasons is where you’re going to find like lasting change, like lasting you know? Yeah, yeah, Freedom. Freedom is the word I love.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  40:55

I totally agree. So, so much more to talk about, but tell me, when you were in the wine industry, what, what was the discussions around the health impacts of alcohol? Like, were people trying to be unaware of it? Like, where they were, like, truthful or not? People are saying it’s not good for you. Or were there some discussions around like, hey, let’s lobby. Let’s. We got to, you know, a lot of certain part of our budget to making sure this information, you know, these horrible laws might go through that actually warn people against the shit.

 

Ruby Williams  41:38

I honestly was, uh, lower on the totem pole, but I’ve read, so I wasn’t privy to, like, the real mastermind strategies of, like, actually putting money and dollars into the lobbyists. But I do know from research, after, you know, since becoming alcohol-free and all of this, that a huge, huge, huge amount amounts of money were put into different studies that say, Yeah, alcohol is good for your heart, or alcohol is good for, you know, letting down the breast milk, I don’t know, like all of those things, you can get a study to say pretty much, how you nuance it, or what, where you decide to focus, to say what you want, and that’s what’s been happening in the wine.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  42:25

And that was one of the issues that was with all the studies around, sort of the French paradox, or whatever was happening. So, they can compare people who didn’t drink alcohol to moderate drinkers, to probably heavy drinkers. But actually, I don’t remember that part, so they probably didn’t want to study heavy drinkers, and they said, Hey, moderate drinkers are healthier than nondrinkers, not looking at the fact that a lot of the nondrinkers either had health concerns already, which was the reason they didn’t drink or had stopped drinking because they had alcohol use disorder and had associated health issues. So, the study itself was flawed, but they could still report the findings right.

 

Ruby Williams  43:14

And I’ve read that too, and I’ve Yes, exactly the same message I heard, it’s interesting, though, you asked, like, I’ll go back to it that were we aware, or to be honest with you, just like I was telling you earlier, if you can find all the right articles.

 

Yeah, so we would, if we were doing a newsletter for the wine club, for example, Hey, let’s, let’s find this article that says it’s healthy. Put that right in our newsletter. Yeah, you know, we’re not going, No, we would never, in the wine industry, have found the articles that said it was unhealthy or well, and let’s be clear, that wouldn’t.

 

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  43:52

We wouldn’t have done that at L’Oréal. We wouldn’t have done that at Starbucks. We wouldn’t have done that anywhere. We know, of course, you don’t report things that are negative. Um, do you know what’s interesting? I worked at a at a company. It was called Bagh bar or steel, where that rented luxury goods. And one of our biggest coups were in this, the first Sex in the City movie when it came out, when I was working there, Jennifer Hudson told Sarah Jessica Parker in the movie, you know, Sarah was like, how, how do you, you know, how do you afford this bag? Because you’re an assistant. And she literally said, Oh, I got it from bag bar or steel. Like, huge movie. We were a tiny startup.

 

Wow, when? And it was the entire year was worked on leveraging that thing. I mean, that was amazing. And also, when I look at the media that we’re surrounded by, I mean, I remember when you know Kerry Washington in you know various shows. Yes, and in different ones, like the powerful, smart, sophisticated women drank giant glasses of wine after work in TV shows to unwind. And wine was literally, like a metaphor for, you know, hey, we don’t have to spell it out. The wine means you’re powerful, you’re stressed, you’re sophisticated, whatever it is.

 

Ruby Williams  45:25

Yeah. There’s so many examples of messaging where, yeah, if you you’re, you’re, let you, if it’s the like, hard alcohol, then it’s you’re, you’re just as powerful as a man, right? If you’re going to drink the whiskey, um, and women in business suits being super powerful is a lot of the messaging or selling sex. I mean, I I’ve got some articles that serve there are an ad is so funny. It’s like, she’s holding a wine bottle. I don’t know. It’s very sexy. It’s just all these sexy it’s just so funny.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  45:57

Yeah, absolutely right. These ads are collectible. Put them up, yeah. I mean, there were like articles that I read when I was young in Cosmopolitan that was like, What does your alcohol beverage of choice say about you? Women who drink beer or X, women who drink wine or Y, women who drink cosmopolitan or Z. And I read that literally for tips on how to seem XYZ when I went on dates with different guys, like it was that’s so interesting.

 

Ruby Williams  46:33

Yeah, very and what’s so funny, if you go back to the TV shows now that I’m looking at TV shows from an alcohol free lens, right? And once you see it, once you can’t unsee it, you guys, it’s like, all of a sudden, I’m watching these shows like they’re, you know, the man and the women. They’re the police detectives, for example. And they’re supposed to be so smart and, oh, and in good shape, and they’re beautiful, yet they’re drinking like every scene. They’re going to a bar, they’re drinking, they’re drinking a night the next day, they’re waking up hungover, they’re showing all this. But the truth is, you wouldn’t be able to really hold that kind of a job and be and the real truth is, you gain weight on alcohol. You end up watching Netflix and drinking wine and not doing your workouts, right? The truth isn’t what they’re showing in all of these ads and TV shows.

 

The truth is that you end up not fulfilling your dreams. Really, that’s the bottom line. And do you look prettier? No, you get wrinkles. You’re gaining weight. You’re looking bloated. I had adult acne, not like horrible, but you know what I mean? Like skin problems, skin rashes, things like that, crow’s feet, a blemish like, what are those? The capillaries were.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  47:59

Oh my gosh, all of that was happening. I still freaking have those. You cannot get rid of those, which I know it kind of is a little less, but, yeah, I still have them too. You’re right. Yeah, no, my skin looks 100 times better, but damn, I wish I could get rid of those.

 

Ruby Williams  48:13

So, how can we market alcohol freedom as like because the truth is, yeah, alcohol freedom gives you what they’re promising in these alcohol ads. Yeah, it does.

Yeah, is getting out.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  48:27

It is a big thing.

 

And I wanted to talk to you about non-alcoholic wine and non-alcoholic beverages, because the growth has been huge. I, you know, I’ve looked up the data on beer. Athletic Brewing Company is the hottest beer in America. It is the highest growth beer in America. It’s the top selling non-alcoholic beer in the United States, although Heineken 0.0 is the world’s best non-alcoholic or fastest growing, biggest non-alcoholic beer, but the global market for it is growing.

 

So, I see all these brands. You know, athletic was started. It’s a startup. It only sells non-alcoholic beer. By the way, I’ve got a 20% discount if you want to try it. So, I’ll put that in the show notes too. I’m an ambassador for it, but it is because I love it, but I see Guinness and Heineken and corona all coming out with non-alcoholic versions, and it’s because they have to. It is because they need to grow their sales and their profits and their market share, and they have not been able to do it with marketing alcohol alone. So, have you seen that shift within the wine and the champagne industry?

 

Ruby Williams  49:46

Yes, but they’re slower. They’re slower to do this. I think that’s when I was at that one conference that I mentioned and the wine industry. That’s what I was sharing, like you got. Guys, this is, this is the next big boom. It’s going to be like a billion dollar industry, the non-alcoholic wines, beers, spirits, and I think that they’re slow to change. And why are they slow to change? I’ve been thinking about this a lot actually. I think it’s because it’s like family a lot of the wineries are, like, family owned. I mean, we’re not. There’s definitely the big corporations, but, but it’s farmers and family owned. But the bigger ones, maybe, maybe, maybe, because, like, some of the quotes we said earlier, they’re going to it means that they have to change. You know, they don’t want to change.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  50:37

It’s hard. It’s hard to do it, it. I mean, I actually have some brands of non-alcoholic, like gruvi, noseco, groovy, bubbly rose Shirley, Brut. I mean, there are a lot of really good non-alcoholic white wines. I’ve tried red ones. People recommend them to me. I have tried them. They’re getting better, but I’ve yet to find a non-alcoholic red wine that sort of I like quite as much as, kind

 

Ruby Williams  51:07

of like joyous the one we had at silver in the city. Okay, pretty good. Uh, yeah, I liked that. But no, I haven’t no go back. I have not found very many wines non-alcoholic wines that I that I actually like. They just they taste too sweet to me.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  51:24

Yeah, there’s some I like on the white side in the champagne side. But anyway, if any of you guys find non-alcoholic reds or any of your favorite brands, please write to us. Tell us on you know, message us on Instagram, whatever you want, because I want to try them. I want to know what they are, and I want to recommend them. Yeah,

 

Ruby Williams  51:47

yeah. So, yeah, I found it’s called water H2o. It’s right here in Sonoma County. It’s sparkling they have. It’s a sparkling red, a sparkling white. And I love it. That’s one I can recommend, but it’s been hard. I think I’ve preferred, which is crazy, because I’m a red I was a red wine drinker. That was my identity, just like you, and I never liked beer. But now what’s funny is I love NA beer.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  52:17

I need you. I was a red wine girl, and NA beer is my absolute favorite. So, any of you guys who are like, Hey, I’m wine, you know, I want to go alcohol free, but XYZ, like, try the NA beer. There’s good shit out there. It is not St Paul’s girl anymore.

 

Ruby Williams  52:39

It’s really good. Yeah, all the micro-breweries around here, a lot of them have an NA version, like Lagunitas, which is right near me, they have their Na, you know. So, there’s a lot.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  52:53

So, how hard was it for you to go alcohol-free in Sonoma County, in the heart of wine industry, where all of your social and work connections were related to that? And did you stop drinking while you were working in the industry?

 

Ruby Williams  53:12

Great question. Okay, yeah.

 

So, what happened to me personally was the company let go of the people that had been there for 20 years or longer. Like a decision. So, I actually, which was fortunate, got let go with a severance, so I had some time to like and literally. So, it was December 18 was my last day. And on January 1 of 2019 I said, Oh my gosh, I can finally maybe look at my drinking like I’ve been wanting to for 7 years to. So, that’s when I, like, looked at the Quit Lit. And I, at the time, I thought there was only AA and, but I discovered all of this. I joined Holly Whitaker’s called Hip Sobriety.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  54:00

I was in Holly Whitaker’s hip sobriety school. I was like the 3rd class back in the day.

 

Ruby Williams  54:05

I’m not sure which class it was, but it was January of 2019, so yeah. It was like a 60 day program. And that’s when I discovered Andy Grace’s book and all those other books and your podcast. I remember when I discovered, oh, it’s but just all those things. So, it was really difficult, Casey. It was my identity. You know, it was like Ruby wine industry, totally intertwined. It was so I had to detangle so many things. I felt like such a hypocrite. I was the one on Facebook that was posting everything with the wine in my hand, or wine tasting, or telling all of my friends and family I could get them wine discount, or whatever this, this was my life. Everything was involved wine.

 

I didn’t share this part, but my stepdad was a winemaker. So, girl. Up. It was all wine. I used to go to the wineries. I mean, really it was. It’s a big part of this. Well, there’s worry there, right?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  55:07

The idea is, I’m sure before you stop drinking, it’s not just you know, what will happen in my social life, or what will people think of me if I don’t drink, but if every single one of your friends is bought in or your family, that’s another layer. But also financially, right? This was tied to your income, which what am I going to do?

 

Ruby Williams  55:32

I’ve been doing this, yeah, these are all your connections, right?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  55:34

You can’t it’s hard to network if you decide to stop consuming the substance. And everyone you know in the work industry is connected to producing that substance.

 

Ruby Williams  55:50

Yeah, everyone. Everyone was. And the funny thing is, when you I think you touched on it earlier, but when you work in the wine industry, everybody’s drinking so much who think it’s normal, we’re drinking even more than what you’d think like, really a lot of alcohol, and it’s just completely normalized because it’s morning, noon, afternoon, evening, every night, every day.

 

Yeah, yeah. Um, but what did I do? I ended up finding a different job in a totally different job in a totally different industry, is what I did. And this is kind of ironic, I ended up working for buff. So, buff makes.

 

Do you ever watch Survivor? Oh yeah, and they wear the buffs. It’s the next Gator. So, I ended up working for them, and in 2019 I got the job. And guess what happened in March of 2020? We our sales went up, like, because everybody needed them, or as a face mask, yeah. Kind of interesting, yeah. So, I ended up working for them, and at the same time becoming a coach. I became a coach. And so, yeah, it was a lot of work, though, to I would say definitely, a year of work on myself to change my identity to a non-drinker. I do identify now as a non-drinker. I’m proud of it.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  57:16

I think, yeah, me too.

 

Ruby Williams  57:17

We non-drinkers are badass. We go against the grain. We’re rebels.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  57:23

Yeah, you know. So how did you do that work? Because that’s not easy.

 

Ruby Williams  57:28

Yeah, I put everything I had into it. I did go to a I went to AA. I did outpatient rehab. I did things like Holly Whitaker’s program. I did Annie Grace’s Pro. I did everything, everything I read all the Quit Lit. And I started really digging into myself. And we have these stories that we tell ourselves and these negative thoughts. And it was a lot of thought work, changing my beliefs, liminal thinking and as well as learning how to feel the feelings, you guys, I’ve been, like, numbing my feelings since childhood and just to become my true, authentic self. And I’m so empowered, like being on a podcast, I didn’t know I would be doing, like, all of these things, like it’s I’m really living up to my full potential, my dreams, things that I always wanted to do. And if you I were to take that story, I may have only lived another, maybe five years. If I was still drinking at the rate it was, it kept increasing. What happened you guys, if you’re listening to this, it just gets faster and faster. You get more and more, and it goes, you know, like I was drinking more, and it was getting earlier in the day, more earlier in the day, more earlier in the day. That’s what just happens.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  58:48

So, what made you find, I mean, I agree, it’s a process, and it’s not easy. Like, I don’t know anyone who was like, oh shit, I drink too much. Let me just stop tomorrow. If you have, you are amazing. Most people, from the statistics I’ve read, start thinking about quitting drinking because they’re worried about it, like, 7 to 10 years. Yeah, 7 where they actually do it. And that’s so if you are trying to stop drinking and you’re in this cycle of like, going back and forth. That does not mean you won’t ever, quote, unquote, “get it”, like, don’t give up on yourself. You never give up you, as Ruby says, throw the book at it. Add one tool and another tool and one support and the next support, and at some point you’re going to find that level of support that you need to stop drinking and start feeling better and make that identity change.

 

So, like Ruby said, it wasn’t the one thing, right? You went to AA, you did outpatient, you did Holly Whitaker’s class. You did Annie Grace’s work. I did the same thing. I went to AA the first. First time I stopped drinking. I was sober for about four months, and then got pregnant and went back to drinking for two years, and when I finally stopped, I was members. I was a member of, you know, a secret Facebook group for people trying to go alcohol free. I hired a private sober coach. I joined Holly Whitaker’s hip sobriety. When I was 60 days alcohol free, I read all the books, I listened to all the podcasts. I actually made sober friends locally.

 

So, I needed a I went to therapy like I needed a whole Oh yeah, there. Worked, right? It wasn’t one and done.

 

Ruby Williams  1:00:37

I couldn’t do it by myself. That’s what I realized. And I think it’s the communities that are available now are so amazing, or coaches. It’s, it’s so much better than even just five years ago. It’s, it’s a whole different world. It’s not just aa or rehab and that’s not there’s so many other choices.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:00:56

And when you think about the media impact as well, it used to be like you said, red wine is good for you. I mean, the Today Show used to have like Hoda and Kathy drinking wine at 10am and joking about it. And this is amazing. And since the sober, curious movement started, I mean, I’ve personally been on Good Morning America. I’ve been in the New York Times, I was just in half a post like, there, there’s a huge movement, and it’s mainstream right now.

 

Yes, so excited. You are not alone. So was there something Ruby that made you decide, like, holy shit, I need to stop drinking. Or was it like for me? It was sort of death of 1000 cuts. I had lots of moments where I was like, oh shit, this is not good, but nothing that the external world, including my husband, would be like, we’re worried about you. You need to not drink. Like, nothing huge. It was just, yeah.

 

Ruby Williams  1:02:01

I would say, yeah. I was like this with the term, and I’m using the air quotes again, but that high functioning, you know, I’ll with alcohol use disorder there. I’ll say that way, but yeah, with no, I didn’t lose a job. Well, I just showed you that I did, but that wasn’t because of drinking. But I didn’t have, you know, a DUI. I didn’t have anything like major happen, but here’s what did happen. So, I told you I had bariatric surgery, but my aunt had had bariatric surgery before me. Then actually was the one that we talked, and she said, it’s a great idea, let’s do it, um, you know, 2 years after my surgery, I’m at her, her funeral, and I didn’t even know I’m sitting there next to my brother, and I said, it’s, everybody’s so vague about how she passed away. And he said, Oh, she was an alcoholic and died of liver disease. And wow, I literally, I’m sitting there, and it felt like I went into a deep, dark hole like that.

 

 

I was just like, oh my gosh, this is going to be me in 5 years, really or less. I didn’t know. I just, it really, after you have weight loss surgery, it can happen fast, like, and, um, so that was my kind of and I said to myself, Okay, I’m not going to. I’m not going to drink. And I actually met a couple of my other, um, friends that were had bariatric surgery, and talked to them about it, and I said, I’m not going to drink ever again. And I made it like, 10 days, which was the most in decades. But it was, I was working in the wine industry, and there was another, there was a tasting event, and I said, I have to drink. And that’s when I really started to, like, try all these rules. And, okay, I’ll just buy the little, tiny bottles. Well, then you need 10 little, tiny bottles, you know, or I tried naltrexone, I tried different therapy, right? The addiction therapy. And I thought, okay, maybe I’m going to have to go to rehab, you know, I did go to outpatient, but, um, I’m just so glad that finally things started to click. And it, it’s, it does take work. I think, I think decision, and you know, and you know, intention.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:04:25

Yeah, and you need to invest in it. And I’m not just saying that because I’m a sober coach, like, I’m saying that for personal experience, like, a lot of people hire a personal trainer, a lot of people hire a nutritionist, a lot of people go to therapy. This is incredibly hard to do on your own, and there is literally no shame like I truly think hiring a Sober Coach or investing in a program is very similar to hiring a nutritionist or going to therapy. Right?

 

You could do all the YouTube videos you want and figure out what to eat, but a lot of times that accountability, that support, it’s important because it’s really hard to do on your own, especially in this culture where you are bombarded by misinformation, or, you know, marketing mess, or friends that you know are bought into the same culture, and most drinkers surround themselves with other drinkers.

 

Ruby Williams  1:05:29

Yeah, working with clients one on one, it’s so beautiful. It’s a really cool experience. It’s completely custom to that person, because it’s what they need at the time they need it.

 

Yeah, yeah. One size fits all. That’s what I think it’s literally, what do you need? And then we work together, just like I’m sure you do, but it’s just, it’s really cool experience to see people transform before my eyes, like, literally within months, I’m like, You look different, you sound different, you know, they’re just much happier, you’re optimistic, you’re happy.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:06:01

That’s how you make that identity shift in your beliefs. And you know, in terms of money, like, I saved $550 in my first month not drinking, which is insane. I didn’t drink. You know, I’m all about early intervention if you are drinking 2 to 3 glasses of wine, 3 times a week like you can stop drinking and feel better.

 

You can stop that ticker tape in your mind, and it will seriously benefit your health and your happiness. I was drinking a bottle, sometimes more, seven days a week when I was not trying actively white knuckling it to stop. So, after my first month, I didn’t drink 40 bottles of wine, and I just imagined those 40 bottles lined up on my, you know, on my island in my kitchen, and I’m five three. I was like, how did I physically inject that much alcohol? Yeah, I was tan, go to work and be a mom and function at 6am.

 

Ruby Williams  1:07:09

Well, let me tell you, when you get to two to three bottles, and I then it switched to hard alcohol for me, that got really scary. It just got so scary because my brain, I here’s what was happening, Casey, like, I think my body was literally shutting down at a really rapid rate, and it just happened fast too. Like, you think you’re, you know, especially if, like, You’re someone in your I hear this all the time. Like, my 20s, I could do everything in my 30s, and then it, like, all of a sudden it hits you.

 

And for me, it was my late 40s. But like, I remember even just having a couple sips of wine, and then I couldn’t see. Like, I would take my glasses on and off, I would be like you couldn’t see, and yet, you were continuing to consume that amount of alcohol that was going directly in your bloodstream, because what you had done here.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:07:45

Yeah, that is insane.

 

Ruby Williams  1:07:54

You it’s not a sane thing. When you have addiction, your brain, you’re literally your subconscious believes you need it for survival. And I do feel like it felt it felt like that. I mean that cognitive dissonance of like, saying I’m not going to drink, and then I’m like, grabbing my car keys to go buy because I would, in the morning, I’d say I’m not going to drink today. Go away any wine or, you know, I’m not.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:08:26

Today’s a day, and then you go to work, and you have a stressful day, and the next day, now I’ll just have one, which, by the way, every day is stressful, when you’re fucking hung over and your nervous system is hot and you’re functioning at half power.

 

Ruby Williams  1:08:33

Yeah, how would you not there? It’s like, so the part of hiring a coach being intentional, it’s really helpful, and then you’re not alone. It also felt so lonely. I felt like I was the only one doing this, like going because we don’t talk about it, right?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:08:48

So many people talk about like, even anxiety and depression and therapy and health initiatives or whatever. People talk about that openly. People talk about that, my girlfriends in the workplace, but alcohol is like this third rail, because you don’t want to be in that category. So, when you are struggling, unless it’s a joke about being hungover, you don’t talk about it, right? So, of course, you’re alone. Nobody know.

 

I mean, what’s interesting that I wanted to mention is you had a personal experience with, I am so sorry, someone in your family who passed away of this disease that is this, this very real example of where alcohol can take you and What it can do to you in the world where you see marketing, you will, like you said, like, not share any of that information. You won’t see it. I found this fat. I love going into industry reports. I know you do as well.

 

And there was a story by net influencer, right? This is how to do influencer marketing. This is legit. And they talked about how influencer marketing is a must for Alcon spirit brands. And they literally say in their newsletter, your influencer marketing campaign should highlight the most attractive selling points of your product without referring to any type of alcohol abuse. This means not showing influencers intoxicated or violent, so they literally know their product makes people intoxicated and violent, and they’re like, by the way, maybe don’t show that shit,

 

Ruby Williams  1:10:40

consumer, yeah. I mean, have you seen the there’s like, some sort it’s like a funny video, but I it’s the truth, right? It’s like the news, the ads and the articles always are showing, like, the first part of a wedding or the first part of when you go out with friends, you clink your glasses, and they’re smiling. Yeah? Maybe people are smiling for the next 20 minutes, but two hours later, it’s the vomiting, it’s the being obnoxious, it’s the fighting, right?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:11:14

And the arguments that, oh my god. And by the way, when you stop drinking, you’re like, Jesus, drunk. People are annoying. Oh, they’re so fucking annoying.

 

Ruby Williams  1:11:21

Yeah, so obnoxious. I think I did a post about that once I’m like, drunk people are obnoxious.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:11:27

Yeah, they are. And so, the other thing that is interesting, this was a previous year state of the wine industry report. There were a couple things they noted, which was, the American wine industry has an old people problem, their customers, their best customers, that consume the most are the oldest ones, and it concluded that to find an audience with younger consumers, they need to make changes and fast. But this is what’s interesting. The report advises companies to target younger consumers, highlighting. They literally wrote this out in quotes, so called Clean Wines, which they note is a largely meaningless term meant to imply healthfulness, like the actual wine industry report is like, promote so called Cleanwines.dot. By the way, this is totally meaningless. It’s not true.

 

Ruby Williams  1:12:26

Wow. Um, that’s so interesting. I can say that the company I worked for, they were hiring younger and younger people. That’s what they were doing, and very strategically, very young people, people right out of college, and they would give them lots of alcohol for free, and say, go to the bars. Talk about our products. And they even hire people at major cities to go into the big bars and places to wear the t shirt, to do the thing, to sell the products, which you probably are aware of, but like, it was very interesting. It’s very young. They’re trying to make it a young industry, just for that reason to achieve.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:13:12

Yeah, they’re very, very worried about it. And the other thing that’s interesting is now I go into restaurants and bars, and I’m so thrilled that there are so many non-alcoholic options, you know, zero proof cocktails. I went to a place, a restaurant with my husband last week. It was bonds, literally called 1000 spirits. They make their own spirits. This is what they do. I’m eight years sober. Didn’t bother me in the least, literally, did not think about going in there with my husband, which, so if you’re worried you will never be able to go to a bar again with people like not true, but they specifically had, you know, beers in in wines and cans, right? Not on draft. The first one listed was athletic, non-alcoholic beer. And then they had a whole section on zero proof cocktails that used, you know, ritual. They had non-alcoholic tequila and vodka and whatever, but also ones that had, you know, nothing to do with non-alcoholic alcohol itself, but underneath the zero proof spirits. It literally said, for those that are sober curious, pregnant or cutting down on alcohol or not drinking for any reason, literally on the menu. And I was just like, I took a picture. I was like, This is fucking amazing. That’s fucking amazing.

 

Ruby Williams  1:14:34

It’s fucking amazing. Yeah, I think, I think this movement is real, Casey. It definitely is real. It’s got so much steam, and I’m so excited that I’m a part of it, that you’re a part of it, your podcast is just amazing.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:14:50

Oh, thank you. Well, I hope this conversation, anyone listening to this got some information to be a more informed consumer to look at the messages around you in a different way, and to give you the encouragement and the permission to decide to stop drinking and know that you are not going to be alone in it.

 

There is an entire universe of people who have chosen to stop drinking because it’s healthier for you, because you will be happier, because you’ll look better, because you’ll be less anxious, you’ll be less depressed, your life will be easier, and it’s cool, like sober curious, it’s cool, no shit. And if you’re surrounded by drinkers, just expand your universe and your social circle, because we are out there. Yes, we are.

 

Yeah, all right. Tell me about you. Tell me about your business, where people can find you, follow up, yeah.

 

Ruby Williams  1:15:52

So, you can find me @RubyWilliamsCoaching. I have Instagram and Facebook, and my website is freedomrenegadecoaching, or you can find me at rubywilliamscoaching too.

 

Um, I have a fun freebie that I created for this. It’s called Ruby.

 

coachingwithruby.com/hellosomeday is it’s a wine free weekend guide. It’s, it’s to get you through a weekend alcohol-free. So, starts on Friday night, and I just walk you through with videos and a guide to, like, just get you through a weekend and see what that’s like, because it all starts with one weekend, and then, yeah, see how you feel after that.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:16:39

Yeah, that’s awesome, and I will put all of those links in the show notes.

 

Thank you so much, Ruby. I have loved this conversation and it I’ve been looking for someone for a while who had an inside track on the actual wine industry, because I knew all this information and saw it from my background in Marketing and Sociology but hadn’t found an expert who’s been on the inside.

 

So, thank you so much for being here.

 

Ruby Williams  1:17:08

Very welcome. This has been so much fun. Thank you.