How To Actually Change Your Life (Not Just Say You Want To) with Andrea Owen

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

drinking, alcohol, change, your life, give a damn, pay attention, how to actually change, Not just say you want to, phases of our lives, I want to take a break from drinking, I want to change my drinking, drinking, process, I want to stop being hungover, personal growth, boundaries, struggling, staying sober, people-pleasing, sobriety, women, quitting drinking, work, high-functioning, live, behaving self-centered, boundaries, mom, main character life shit, coach, sober coach, values, service, connection, optimism, integrity, those are what I care about, big resolutions make some noise, stop trying necessarily to be the good girl, existential questions, experience life, most liberating goal, purpose, core values, being competent, responsible, reliable, hard conversations, intentional, fear, anxiety, shame, codependency, stuck, unstuck, pain, relationship, frustration, victim, embracing the chaos, coping mechanism, sober, sobriety, sober girlfriends, travel, recovery, boundary, therapy, emotional, healthyf

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Andrea Owen

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a buzz, how to sit with your emotions when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Hi guys. I am so excited because I’ve got back on my show, one of my favorite guests, author, and coach, Andrea Owen. And if you haven’t heard her earlier episode, Andrea was on Episode 75 where we were talking about her book, Make Some Noise: How to Speak Your Mind and Own Your Strength.

I loved the conversation because it was all about how, as women, we’ve been socialized to make others comfortable, to go along and get along and be helpful and put other people’s needs before our own. How that hurts us and how to break out of that.

 

[00:02:00]

In her new book that we’re talking about today, Live Like You Give A Damn: 25 bold moves to get honest, face the hard stuff, and show up for yourself.

 

Andrea identifies how we often hide, hold back, and accept patterns that don’t serve us. And if you’re listening to this and you’re sober curious, that definitely includes the wine glass, on the couch that you are drinking on autopilot thinking, I just need this to get through the day or the night, or whatever’s happening right now.

So we’re going to talk about

how to actually change, not just say you want to.

 

Before we get started, I wanted to tell you a little bit more about Andrea. She’s an author, a global keynote speaker. A professional certified life coach who helps high achieving women, maximize unshakeable confidence, master their mindset and magnify their courage, she has taught hundreds of thousands of women tools and strategies to be able to empower themselves to live their most kick-ass life.

 

[00:03:00]

Through keynote speaking, her books, coaching and her wildly popular podcast with over 4 million downloads. I also listened to Andrea on the Bubble Hour podcast. The first time I tried to stop drinking. Which was 13 years ago and she totally inspired me.

Her voice was one of the ones I heard where I resonated with her and related to her and thought maybe I could stop drinking and life would still be okay.

 

Andrea’s in long-term recovery for the past 14 years. You are going to love her.

So, welcome to the show.

Hi, I am so excited to be here again. Casey, thank you for reminding me, too, about all the, the stuff from before and I’m honored to be one of the voices that really was, you know, on your road of getting sober.

So, you’ve written a ton of books. So many books, I’ve read most of them and love them. But I’m curious, what made you pick this topic in live? Like you give a damn. It was, it was interesting.

[00:04:00]

Like, I have always had that expression sort of in my back pocket.

And one day, I was talking to somebody about house plants, and I don’t even know if I’ve ever told the story on a podcast yet, but I was 2017ish, I think. And they were someone was complimenting me on the amount of healthy house plants that I had, and I had taken it on as a hobby. And they had said, oh, I, I just don’t have a green thumb.

Like every plant I spy dies. And they said, what do you, how do you do this? Like, have you always had a green thumb? And I said, no, I used to kill plants, too. But you just have to start giving a damn, like, really? That’s, that’s it. And the person laughed because of the simplicity of it. And it really is true.

 

I figured out, in terms of house plants, like all I had to do was understand how each of them worked and pay attention to when they needed help and, just give a care, you know? Yeah. And that’s so much about how life is, or at least like certain aspects of our life.

[00:05:00]

If we want to really have a better relationship with our partner, we have to really give a damn and pay attention and put our energy and focus into it.

 

So, that’s really where the title of it came from. And I also think that given where we are in the world. It’s complicated out there and it’s heavy. I also think that it was time for us to get really clear on the particular topics that matter the most, and some of them are deeper than surface level personal growth.

Yeah, absolutely. I thought it was interesting the specific line or topic around the idea of how to actually change. Mm-hmm. Not just say you want to, because I think all of us do this in so many phases of our lives. Like, you know, I know I definitely said I want to take a break from drinking. I want to change my drinking, I want to stop being hungover.

 

All the things for a decade yet did not really do it.

[00:06:00]

Like I gave a damn right.

 

I would, I would give lip service to it, but I wouldn’t change X, Y, Z or do any of the work. I did it when I said I wanted to leave my job for many years before I finally did. And I think quitting drinking really helped me finally have the courage to do that.

 

But I mean, we do it in all aspects of our lives. So, you know, you’ve been coaching women for decades, like, do you see that a lot where women come in and talk to you about what they want and yet won’t really do anything about it all the time? I think the majority of people that I come across are in that place.

 

And I want to preface my answer by saying there’s nothing wrong with being there. Like that’s a, it’s a legitimate. Part of the process and all of us will be there. You get to decide how long, and if you stay there a long time, it doesn’t mean you’re less smart or less good or less anything. It just, that’s how you do it.

[00:07:00]

That’s how you process life and your own evolution. So, I wanted to say that for sure, and I think that like many things, the example I give is when, years and years ago, I was still married and I wanted chickens. I wanted to have chicken, like backyard chickens for with eggs. I realized very quickly, luckily for my husband’s sake, too, I liked the idea of having chickens.

I liked the idea of getting to name them and kind of like the, what you see on the outside, right? Like, the shiny part. But then, I started thinking about like how much work they take the, the smell that is involved, like how much cleanup we, at the time we had a, we had a literal bird hunting dog, and I’m like, that’s probably not going to work out very well.

We have a, we have an animal that actively hunts chickens. Like, that’s probably not a good fit. So, it got me thinking about how often this happens in people’s lives where we like the idea of something

[00:08:00]

and, the point of spending time there, like figuring out like, am I in this liminal space of just like wanting to change but not really wanting to do the work.

When you spend time, there you are, then it’s easier for you to see. What specifically you need to work on, because the liminal space, often there’s grief in there. So, for instance, like if I’m thinking about getting sober and see this is something I didn’t know in the beginning, but if I also understood like, oh, there’s going to be a lot of recovery involved, like emotional work, and this isn’t just about quitting drinking, it’s about like all the, the emotional processing and connections I need to make in my mind and I might need to have hard conversations.

 

Like that’s usually what we’re afraid of. So when you, just like, when you realize like, oh, I like the idea of getting sober more than the actual work, then it can help you point to what it actually is that you need to work on and you can take your time.

[00:09:00]

And I think, I mean, it’s even just the idea of like the phases of train change, right?

You’ve got pre-contemplation and I was there for a long time, like thinking everything else was the problem, not the actual alcohol. It was my boss and my husband, and the stress and the schedule or whatever it was. And then, you know, you realize what the issue is, so then you contemplate making the change and you can stay there for a very long time.

And this happens with everything. And I, I know that I started reading the quit lit if we’re talking about drinking or listening to the podcast long before I was ready to actually change. And I think that’s part of the process, right? You have to be, you have to say that you want to change for a while before you actually do it.

You know? You don’t just wake up one day. Mm-hmm. You don’t. And I, I think that there’s, there’s different places to be in where people, where people say.

[00:10:00]

They, when they’re just talking about changing, there are the people who truly don’t realize the, the actual work that is involved. And there are people that do.

And so my hope is that if you’re in stuck in this contemplation stage or pre-contemplation stage, is that you, that you’re gathering information if you don’t know what the, what the work is involved on what to do. So for example, like if we simplify the example, like I would love to have, I would love to be at my age 50 years old and have an amazing, like, a body that is worthy of being on like a cover of a fitness magazine.

Do I, do I know what the work is involved in getting there? Yes. Massive change to my diet. Massive change to my workouts. Maybe having, even having to like look at some hormone stuff and it’s like, so then do I want all the work involved in having that kind of body? No. So my hope is like that if you’re in that stuck place.

You, you realize why, like, you, you realize what it is underneath that you’re, that you’re saying no to.

[00:11:00]

Yeah, absolutely. And I, I do that with so many different things. I’m like, yeah, that’s would be really great, but yeah. I’m not interested in doing all the work. You have other priorities, right? You do. Well, sometimes you do realize that you do want to do the work and then you Yeah.

End up going for it. But like the good news is either way, you know what’s involved and you know, the real thing that you’re saying yes or no to. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things I loved that you talk about is that growth is a choice. Mm-hmm. But so is staying stuck. And I think that sometimes we don’t realize when we say, okay, we don’t want to do the work, for example, of getting away from alcohol or leaving your job or leaving a difficult relationship or whatever it is.

You think about how daunting that is, but you don’t really look at what is the cost, the opportunity cost, the cost of staying stuck. And in your book, and I want you to take us through this for a couple different topics.

[00:12:00]

You, in each chapter go through a specific challenge, but then you break it down what the problem is so you get really clear on how it’s showing up in your life, what happens if you don’t address it.

 

Yeah. That’s the sort of the choice of staying stuck, right? Ignoring it won’t make it go away. And then how to fix it. And I always assume that’s like, okay, you took a look at what happens if you don’t address it. What happens if your life or your challenge stays the exact same and it’s a year from now, 2 years, 5years?

Is that okay? And if it’s not, then how do you fix it? Exactly, and I use the word fix loosely. Oh yeah. Let’s be honest. At the end of the day, books have marketing language in them and that word sells better. But between you and me and all the people listening, what I mean by fix it is work on it.

Cause fixing it implies that we’re broken and we’re not. I think that we choose to work on something.

[00:13:00]

So because we’re stuck there, it sort of messes with everything, not only like that we’re taught to do, but also it brings in all of the societal and cultural pressures to get to a different place, to get quote unstuck, to fix ourselves.

Like that’s a good word. Like we, we keep hearing that. It’s we hear that it’s definitely not a good place to remain stuck, do you know what I mean? Like, it’s considered almost like, like a character flaw to, to be stuck. And so I think that when we, what it costs us is our peace. I think that if, when you’re stuck, and I know this very well because I feel like I’ve been stuck for the last, like five years, you know, we’re recording this in 2025, and I think, I’m not alone here, but you know, when I’m saying like middle age perimenopause, divorce and a pandemic will throw you into being stuck.

[00:14:00]

Yes. And so, I think that sometimes we get stuck on the fact that we are stuck. So I’m going to look at it from this, from this angle. We get stuck because we are stuck. And, and what I have found out the hard way, unfortunately, and this is probably not what people are going to want to hear, is that sometimes when we’re stuck, it takes a hell of a lot longer to get unstuck.

 

And so, if we can, during the stuck-ness, look at areas of our life where we’re unstuck. I’m, I feel like I’m not explaining this very well, and I’m answering it this way because I have such a recent experience being stuck, feeling like I’m stuck for five years. This is like almost like giving advice to myself.

If we can in the stuck-ness, look at all of the ways behind us. So like in our past versions of ourselves, other times that we have been stuck and what that looked like and how we have gotten so much better from being in it that can help us realize that like maybe it’s maybe.

[00:15:00]

This stuck feeling, this liminal space that I’ve felt like I’ve been in for however many years.

And like if someone’s listening to this and they’ve maybe kind of gone on and off the wagon for a few years, or they have, were sober for a year and then, and then fell off. And so it feels like this stuck place. And especially like, and here’s something I don’t like about certain recovery groups is like, or if you feel like I was sober for a year and then I fell off and I have to start all over again, and like, you make it, you make up that that whole period of time was like a stuck place.

It’s not necessarily true. You are always growing. You’re always growing and you’re always learning. You’re always evolving and transforming. I think there are some periods of your life where you are going to, like, the trajectory is going to be faster than the others. And the times that are really, really slow, that’s when we feel like we’re stuck.

Yeah. And so if you can, if you can look at it, I’m answering this question kind of backwards, but if you can look at it from that place of what if I’m not actually stuck. It’s the same thing as like the word failure. Like what if it actually wasn’t a failure?

[00:16:00]

What if this was exactly where I need to be in order to get to the other side in order to become the version of myself?

It’s, it’s really about like questioning labels that we’ve put on certain words. Stuck. Yeah. Cost of being stuck. Failure, even words like sobriety and recovery, like we make them mean so much and they don’t necessarily have to mean what we’ve been taught. Yeah. I love that you said that because you know I mentioned it like I heard you 13 years ago, the quote, unquote, first time I quit drinking.

 

Right. I quit for a year and then as a lot of us do, I went back to drinking for two years after my daughter was born and. When people do that. ’cause I’m not alone in doing that cycle.

Mm-hmm. You know, I spent two years daily drinking a bottle of wine hangovers, all that kind of stuff. The thing I tell people is that the next time you get sober momentum, that experience is going to serve you.

 

[00:17:00]

Yeah. Because at when I got to the end of that point, you know, the first time I stopped, I thought my over-drinking was situational. Right. I was drinking because of my marriage and my job and the stress of my life. And that’s why I felt like garbage. And I went back to drinking because I felt so much better.

I was like, I’m fixed. My life is better. I’m happier, I’m more emotionally centered, therefore, …, I can drink again, which did, at that time did not connect the dots that my life and emotional health was so much better because I hadn’t been hung over in a year. But the next time I stopped, those illusions were gone.

Like I was like. The problem is the alcohol. And if I drink again, it will just suck me back down into that really hard place that took me 2 years to get out of and I felt like shit. And I beat myself up every day. And those 3:00 AM wake up and all this stuff.

[00:18:00]

So if I hadn’t had those two years of quote unquote “being stuck” and not being able to stop drinking and not being able to get past a week, the next time I started going, I would not have had that conviction.

 

Like, I remember going into my therapist at four months having like a huge anxiety attack and was like, I can’t live like this and I can’t go back to drinking, so you have to help me. Like that resolve would not have been there.

Yeah. That’s huge. That’s huge. Casey, like, and I, when you were saying that, like what I was also, what popped into my mind was, I think a big part what keeps us perhaps stuck in, in being stuck is the not being able to see what’s right in front of our face in terms of what we actually need to work on.

And I think that this can happen a lot in that space that you just described. Like when you are either, maybe it’s you’re thinking about getting sober for the first time and you feel like you’re stuck, like in that like contemplation stage

[00:19:00]

or like planning and then, or maybe you have like a decent amount of sobriety and then come back in.

I think that sometimes we get so lost in the feeling of being stuck in the worry of what other people are going to think of us. And like the worry of like, what am I supposed to do? What’s the next right step? What do the textbooks say? That we, we do not see what’s right in front of us. And it, and it’s usually, I’ll be honest, it’s usually the thing that like, we don’t want to admit because it, we feel like it’s going to annihilate us like some kind of childhood trauma or.

The fact that I need to leave my marriage or like, just like a big whopper of like an emotional thing. Yeah. That we’ve probably been like drinking our whole life, our adult life in order to like all the things you don’t have to think about when you drink. Like that is the thing. You’re like, if I take away the ability to knock myself unconscious and concentrate on like the hangover as the problem, or me as the problem, that I don’t have to deal with this big elephant that I’m terrified to look at.

[00:20:00]

Yes. Can we talk about that for a minute? Because like, I don’t know how much you want to talk about like, drinking and recovery and things like that, but like one of the main things that I have realized now that I have 14 years of sobriety from alcohol is that the thing that I was, the main reason I was drinking, the thing that I was trying to numb and cover up and not have to think about, not have to feel, was just to all emotions in general, just the human experience of being an emotional person, which we all are. I’m not special here, by the way. I’m not here to say that I’m the only one. No, we all are. And I, I think for me it was a combination of growing up in a home that where we just didn’t have the language. We grew up in a house of elephants in the room. Nobody wanted to talk about lots of love, but like no emotional safety really.

 

[00:21:00]

Yeah. And a culture that doesn’t exactly raise us to be that. I, and as a, a very deep thinker and feeler, like I grew up very early on, realizing this was all on a subconscious level. That emotions were unsafe, that other people’s emotions were unsafe. My own were definitely unsafe. Processing them.

Naming them, it was all too unsafe, uncertain and vulnerable. And then when they would kind of come in, I would feel so overwhelmed by them. Like it was almost like a spiritual experience of like, whatever this is, is so much bigger than me, I cannot control it. And then being told I was crazy when I would emote.

Didn’t really like set me up to, to want to embrace my feelings. So drinking gave me that ability to like completely push them down. Both internal emotions and any external emotions. And so once I realized, and it took many years of sobriety and recovery just to be like, oh, like I can actually process my feelings and they can make their way through me and, and out, and then I’m okay.

Like, it was like building up the emotional resilience took a long time.

[00:22:00]

Yeah. And then realizing like, oh, that was, that, was that what all I was afraid of? And that’s what I drank. Yeah. Yeah. I know it’s so much work to figure that out and to face it. And it’s so much easier to just shove it down and numb it out and call it a good time.

It works until it doesn’t. There it, that’s one of my favorite sayings from 12 step programs. They, they’ve, I take a lot of their quotes and expressions, and that is one of them that I love. ’cause it works until it doesn’t. Yeah, exactly. I, I feel like that’s the perfect way to jump into the next thing you talk about in the book, which is that chaos is the catalyst for change.

Can you tell me what you mean when you say that? Yeah. It’s an excerpt from Ing and it’s really just kind of talks about like the science of stars and like how they’re created. And I think that maybe, maybe not, maybe it’s not an exact science. Like, and I don’t know the exact physics of things like that,

[00:23:00]

but I think, in the 3D world and we’re talking about personal growth, I definitely think that, a way to cope through chaos can be to look at it from this perspective of that when you are in chaos, whether it’s actual, you know, drama that’s unfolding in your life, relationships, having challenges and things like that, or internal chaos, like when you’re feeling stuck, when you’re feeling like something needs to change.

 

But I’m not really sure what it is. That can be a huge indicator that change is about to happen. And the reason that that’s beneficial is because not so you can be afraid of it, but so you can prepare for it. You know, asking yourself questions like, how do I want to show up during this next phase of my life?

How do I want to show up for this next conversation that I have to have with whomever it is? And so I think that if we can if we can, for me personally, when I started to look at chaos as something that is a natural part of life

[00:24:00]

and like my evolution, it helped me surrender so much more into it instead of like bracing myself for the impact and like, oh, how is this going to affect me?

And of course, you’re going to want to take care of yourself, but it, but it, it helped me embracing that lesson helped me be so much more peaceful around any of my thought processes, any of my decision making, any of my conversations with people. It helped me. It, it was ironic because like embracing the chaos helped me to handle things with more curiosity and peace and surrender rather than meeting it with more chaos.

 

Yeah. That makes total sense to me because one of the things that’s helped me and has enabled me to stop feeling like a victim when shit happens which, you know, I always go to the victim place for a, for a little while. It’s just a question of how long I stay there. Right. When, when bad shit happens, you’re going to be like, why is this happening to me?

[00:25:00]

Right. Which is a total victim question. Right. This is happening to me and one of the things I actually learned in coaching school years and years ago was trying to flip that question to how is this happening for me? Mm-hmm. In my mind that’s like what you’re saying about embracing the chaos. And I’ve thought about that in a couple different ways.

’cause I want to talk to you about fear, but I was always that person who tried to hold on to security and what I knew and the status quo. Regardless of what was going on. ’cause I didn’t want to change. And I was always kind of taught, as we talked about in our last conversation, to look on the bright side and to be grateful and whatever it is, right?

Like you’re lucky, I don’t care what shit’s going on, like just be grateful and make it work. And when I started being like, okay, how is this happening for me? I was able to reframe, like getting to the point in my drinking where I actually had to stop and give up the thing that I loved more than anything.

[00:26:00]

Or when my boss was a nightmare and I was laid off, or I was re-orged. I was like, okay, this sucks and I’m terrified. But maybe it had to get to this point to push me off the edge and actually make a change that I was resisting. Mm-hmm. For way too long.

Like maybe work has to get so bad that you’re like Fuck it. Okay, I’m going to leave and I’m going to do something else. Even though it’s terrifying for me. And I know you mentioned divorce a couple times, like that’s terrifying, right? Mm-hmm. You have to get to that point to be like, okay, fine. You’re hitting me over the head with whatever it is. Chaos or, or things happening that I can no longer tolerate.

Okay, I hear you. I’m going to make a change. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, well, and I want to, I want to say this too, is that, that place, that this place that we’re talking about, of looking at really difficult situations and challenges as what could this be doing for me instead of against me or,

[00:27:00]

you know, kind of getting out of that victim mode is that it’s, I feel like it’s circumstantial and it’s also like you’re allowed to be in the victim mode for certain situations.

Like, you know, like there’s some egregious things that happen to us. And it’s all of I remember I had Janine Roth on my podcast years ago, and she tells a story about how she lost everything. Her and her husband lost everything during the Bernie Madoff. Oh, wow. Fallout, yeah. Entire life savings. Lots and lots and lots of money.

Like lost, I think literally everything, all of their money. And she was, she was talking about that particular topic and how she had a friend pretty much, like, it might’ve even been like the day that it happened, say like, oh, you’re going to be telling this story after you rebuild or something. And she told her friend like, too soon.

Too soon. Yeah. Like, yeah. So I, I, I retell that story of hers because like Yeah, like you, you do, you need to go through the process. Don’t rush the process. Oh, let me tell you with the drinking thing. I don’t think I got to, how did this happen for me to like a year after.

 

[00:28:00]

Okay. And I was definitely in the, why is this happening to me as I practice and as things are different, like, okay, I got laid off from work, I’m able to get there more quickly.

But absolutely, like, shit happens and you don’t need to look on the bright side or do that like toxic positivity right away. No, but I think it’s an important conversation for us to have, like be, because like both are true. You know? It’s like, yes, you need to give it the time. And then also I had a, I had a Instagram reel go viral a few months ago.

And it’s still getting traction even all these months later. And it was, I, I had simply asked Chad GPT to tell me. From everything they know from the internet. Like how were Gen X and millennials raised by boomer and silent generation parents And, and some of what, and it was, it was, it was just a screen recording of me scrolling through chat GT’s response.

I got thousands and thousands and thousands of comments.

[00:29:00]

And one of the things in that, real on that chat GPT said was that, ’cause I’m Gen X raised by a silent generation. It was that, like, that was a lot of how we were raised of like, when problems happen, look at the bright side. Don’t talk about how difficult it is.

There’s always a silver lining. Be grateful you have what you have and then you just move on. Like, so that’s how we were raised. Like not only is it something that’s, that’s on its way out in the personal development sphere of like toxic positivity, but like we were raised that way. So, of course we’re going to think like, oh, I shouldn’t be upset about this. But you can, you can.

Yeah, I was smiling because I think we’re the same age. I’m 50 as well. Yeah. And yeah, I was, I was raised by a good wasp from Ohio. Ohio, you know, upper middle class. We do not talk about anything. It is, you are so lucky. Don’t talk about your problems even amongst the family, you know, just stiff upper lip and move on.

Casey McGuire Davidson 

Hi there. If you’re listening to this episode, and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit®.

 

The Sobriety Starter Kit® is an online self study sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step by step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one on one coaching. And the sobriety starter kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it. And when it fits into your schedule. You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time.

This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step by step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking, from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better. You’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach, you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course 

 

[00:30:00]

Don’t air your dirty laundry. No, especially not on the internet, like, oh dear God, it’s nightmare. It’s, it’s, it’s wild. Yeah. And like, just watching the comments come in, it’s wild. But like all of the comments tell me that a lot of Gen X millennials had a similar experience being raised and that we want something different for our generation.

But I, I say all that because it’s universal that we automatically think that like, no, we need to just. Move on have your temper tantrum.

You are allowed to flip off whoever you need to flip off. Might need to make amends somewhere, but before you get to the place of Yeah. Of really making change. Yeah. I think the message is you can, when you’re ready, embrace the messiness instead of waiting for things to feel calm before you take action.

Is that right? Yeah. This is what I’ve seen, and this book too comes from many years of working with people and even, even just beyond the clients that I’ve worked with.

[00:31:00]

Like, I’ve had so many conversations like this and, and you know, different conversations that are, that are specific to that.

So yes, you, you go through all of that and then the messiness is what I have been noticing. That is the hardest thing for people to embrace because people will want to have conversations with me or work with me to like find the solution.

And they have maybe been in a coping mechanism habit for decades, or maybe they’re having a specific situation at work or at home, and they, they want a solution to it. So, we work together, I coach them, or we have a conversation and they, they find the solution. And then I think a lot of times the expectation is, and I thought this too, the expectation is, is like, it’s going to, I’m good now, like it’s going to be seamless and I’ll work out.

And then you find out like, oh, I actually have no control how the other person is going to respond when I have this hard conversation. I have no control over if I’m going to have a really strong craving.

[00:32:00]

You know, like when I go to this party, like we realize like how uncertain it really is. And how non-linear the whole journey is and how messy it is.

And I feel like that is the part that doesn’t get talked about enough in our spaces, like as the thought leaders and experts, because it’s just not as sexy, like the middle part. Like it’s not that marketable, like who wants to hear about like the boring, messy middle? No, we want to hear the rag to riches story.

Like, but it’s not how life is, it’s not how the majority of life is. Yeah. Yeah. It’s really, and it’s hard to live there, right? You feel like you are failing by thinking about it, trying, getting scared, going back, doing the same thing all over again. But as you said, like that is part of the process.

Yeah. Like living in that space. It’s interesting, like, you know, ’cause I’ve been sober for 14 years and I’ve been married and divorced twice and I’ve, I’ve been in a new relationship for about 14 months as we’re recording this.

[00:33:00]

He and I were both 49 when we met. We turned 50 recently, and we’re going along in this relationship, and both of us have all of this experience behind us.

And we walked into this relationship first. Like neither of us were even really looking for anything. So, when we decided like we really liked each other and wanted to try this, we were very intentional. Like we had conversations about like, what have you, basically like what have, tell me like the top 10 things you’ve learned from your former marriages.

I’ll tell you my top 10 and let’s, let’s strategically almost like implement systems and create a culture in this relationship that is for our benefit of like our common goal. And I’m like, what a concept. Like, so, so we’re, we’re going along. I, I have a point to my story. I’m not just bragging about my relationship.

Okay. So, we’re going along. I was like, damn, that’s mature. I’ve been married, married 23 years. We do not talk about that shit. Well, like here, here’s what I realized in all of this, and as I’ve, rounded out a year in completing like the healthiest relationship I’ve ever had, is that I still have just as much pain in the relationship.

[00:34:00]

I have a lot more peace and understanding, but I still have pain in the relationship. But here’s what it looks like. It looks like having really difficult conversations, probably more often than I would have previously in a different relationship, and probably more often than I would have if I didn’t have the tools and experience I do now.

And it is painful. Like I’ve had hard conversations with him where I have showed up not as my best self and had to like circle back and be like, I don’t know what happened. Do you know what I mean? Like, it’s not just because we’re intentional and we, we know when things are triggering our inner child.

 

It’s like it doesn’t make it. It makes it smoother to walk through it, and I’m more proud of how we both showed up, but that’s really it. Like, it’s still really uncomfortable, like so painful to walk through these, these challenging times.

[00:35:00]

So, that’s been like a revelation for me and I’m like, oh, it’s not that.

Like I have so much less unhappiness and pain in my life. I do. I have a lot less, but I still have it. But it’s, it’s a different flavor and it’s something that is almost more like it feels worth it, if that makes any sense. Instead of before the pain was just frustration and like wanting to be somewhere else in terms of like the relationship, like I wanted a better relationship, like that’s where the pain was.

 

Now it’s just like, oh, I have pain because I’m terrified. What all of the worst case scenarios that could happen as an outcome of this conversation. Do you know what I mean? Like it’s just, it’s a different kind of, I feel like I’m on a different planet sometimes, if that makes any sense. And do you think that’s the result of doing a lot of work in therapy and coaching or, I mean, obviously you’ve gone through some shit.

[00:36:00]

We’ve all gone through some shit. Like part of that’s life experience, right? When you’re 25 or 17 or 30, you probably have not experienced. As much. Mm-hmm. Depending on your life, right? So you’ve gone through it and you’re like, alright, I’m not going to, I’m always like, I’m not going to make the exact same mistakes all over again.

I’m going to make some new ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Exactly. Exactly. Like, there are definitely changes where I won’t self-abandon anymore. Like that’s what I’m talking about when I say like, I’m not going to make the same mistakes again. Like, I won’t do that, but I guarantee you I’m going to step in shit some other way.

And the, the difference now is like after 14 years of sobriety and all of these years of recovery, it’s like the self-awareness I have is so much more potent. And I can take that with me. And a lot of times I tell on myself, like, take accountability and responsibility. Try not to fall on the sword because that’s what I do.

He points that out to me sometimes. That I have a tendency to do that.

[00:37:00]

And it’s my own way of like playing victim, I guess it’s like, like martyrdom, I don’t know. Oh, yeah. Kind of changed outfits. Achieving women love to be martyrs, right? We do. I know. Oh, codependence. But it’s, it’s, it’s that, it’s the self-awareness piece.

And also, here’s what I’ve realized, another beautiful part of recovery and sobriety that feels very next level in terms of personal growth is that when you can get to a place where you can see someone else’s behavior that you don’t like and understand why they’re doing it and have compassion for that, and sometimes need to set boundaries ’cause you don’t need to be a doormat. Like sometimes people’s behavior is bad and you need to set your own boundaries. But when you can see someone else’s behavior and have compassion for them and understand why they would behave a way that you don’t agree with. That is next level. That is peace.

And that is something I did not have before. Definitely not when I was drinking.

[00:38:00]

Yeah. Yeah. I was just thinking, which was interesting, I went to France year before last with, with three sober girlfriends. Mm-hmm. And, you know, we’re all basically late 40s, early 50s, we’re traveling together and we were like, oh my God.

Traveling with women who are sober and in recovery is the best because like, we were so good at being like, here’s my boundary, here’s what I like. I’m not going to escalate drama. I’ve been to therapy, I know my shit. Like, oh, you really care about this. I see that for you. I don’t, that’s okay. You know, like it was just, I was not like that when I was drinking.

 

Right. I was so emotional and you know, I had trouble looking at myself with clarity and not reacting to what everybody else was doing. A hundred percent. Like, and that’s the word, like it’s the reactive. Like I just, I felt like I was like trying to have the best time possible just because that’s my, I, I have a lot of fun.

[00:39:00]

I am that friend while, all while simultaneously trying to be my authentic self while also wearing a mask as we do. Yes. Yes. And it’s like, and it’s like trying to figure out which mask to wear at what time and with what person. Also filling in a lot of blanks in terms of expectations, making a lot of assumptions, and then finding out the hard way when you’re incorrect about any of those expectations and assumptions.

’cause you’re going to end up finding out. Yeah, a few. Yeah. I mean, I went to therapy four years when I was drinking and I would talk about everything except that, you know, like, and it was really hard to make any forward progress when you were like, just having your emotions all over the place and losing hours of time and losing the clarity of like, what’s yours and what’s theirs and what’s happening and, you know, the guilt and all that shit.

It’s really hard to, it’s grow emotionally when that’s your big elephant. The real VIPs are the therapists who have been working with someone for a long time who constantly talks about other, when the, when the client is constantly talking about other people and dodging questions about themselves.

[00:40:00]

The real MVP is the therapist who gently points that out.

But the real, real MVP is the client who can hear that and like, not say like, screw you therapist, it’s not about me, it’s about everybody else. Like that takes real humility and work on yourself to be able to look at your own behavior with grace and be like, all right, maybe it’s me.

Yeah. And focusing so much on the problems everybody else has or how worried you are about them or what’s going on.

It’s a really easy way not to deal with yourself. That’s a whole personality.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I wrote about that themes in my first book. I was like, early on in my personal growth journey, like I noticed some people, it was actually like some distant family members who would like DM me on, on Facebook and like, tell me how I should behave with like another family member.

[00:41:00]

And I’m like, what? And then, I quickly realized, I’m like, oh, they’re probably actively avoiding things in their own life and that they feel better being like a busy body. And I’ve done that. And you know, it’s like, I mean that’s, that’s what a codependent does. You know, it’s like we try to, if I fix everybody else’s life and I’m using air quotes, then I will feel better about my own life.

I can’t remember if I said this in my last, when I was here last time, but I used to. Long before I got sober, I used to write the names of my friends and my boyfriend in the margins of my self-help books. Like when I read something about them, I was like, oh yeah, Shelby definitely does this. So awesome. Me.

Did you write your own name ever or you were just okay? No, no. It wasn’t until it wasn’t until I read melody Beatty’s, Codependent No More, was where I was highlighting for me, and that was the first time I was like, oh, maybe my therapist was right.

Yeah. You know what’s interesting, and I’m sure you’re aware of it, I interviewed the author of High Functioning Codependency and that was like, oh, Terry. Light Bulb moment.

 

[00:42:00]

Yeah. Terry Cole. Like, it was so interesting because like codependent No More, you, you know, came out a long time ago, and I think a lot of women who are powerful in their own lives and are doing well are like, well, I’m not a codependent because. I’m in charge of everything. Mm-hmm. In a, in a proactive way.

And I’m getting all of the kudos for it and the achievement. And then when I talked to Terry, I was like, oh, holy shit. This is me. You know, like, let me just fix everything for everyone else, but because I know better, not because I’m, you know, trying to keep this relationship going or whatever it is.

Mm-hmm. The word codependent is a bit of a misnomer. It’s like it’s, it’s widely misunderstood and lots of myths about what it actually looks like, and people are usually surprised when they find out what it actually is and that they are one. Yeah. So one thing I wanted to talk about is you have a section on like what holds us back from change all about fear.

[00:43:00]

Mm-hmm. And the different ways it shows up in our lives or the different ways that we avoid looking at it. So can you talk a little bit about that? ’cause I don’t think there’s anyone who is saying they want to change but isn’t, who isn’t confronting fear and sort of walking back away from it. Yeah. I think that the whole conversation around fear is so nuanced and I, I don’t, I don’t think I’ve written a self-help book without talking about it, at least like generally because like when you’re talking about personal growth, you’re talking about fear every day, all the time in some way.

And it’s, it can look different for different people. And it, it’s gender specific. It, you know, it depends on like, like how you grew up and like what was modeled for you at home. And so that’s why I really like to get into the nitty gritty of, of how fear shows up in, in your life. And, and I think that like coaching can be a great way to learn your own kind of recipe.

And you don’t need to hire a coach to do that.

[00:44:00]

I don’t like to tell people to rely too much on AI, but this can be a good prompt to, especially if you’ve used it in the past, like you could say, like, given what you know about me give me 20 self-coaching questions that will help me unpack where I hold onto fear and just like, see what comes up and like keep prompting it to get more specific about your fear.

Because if you ask yourself things, like if you ask yourself a question like, what do I want less of in my life? And maybe and you say your answer is I want less pushback from my. Family about changes that I’m trying to make, and it’s like, okay, well haven’t, why haven’t you, then the, I ask yourself another question, like, well, why haven’t you addressed the pushback or what has happened?

Like if you can coach, keep coaching yourself and asking you like, what is it about that that’s keeping you stuck? And then you get an answer. Okay, what is it about that that’s keeping you stuck? Like you’ll get down and strip down what it is you’re actually afraid of. And more often than not, we are afraid of feelings.

 

[00:45:00]

It will come down to having to experience some uncomfortable feeling. And it’s usually like uncertainty. It’s usually what it is. Yeah. And it’s usually like we have a, a, a, a poor relationship with our own. Self-trust and resilience. And so, like for example I was just being interviewed for someone else and we were talking about making decisions and, and how that can be really difficult for people and, and they’re worried about making a decision.

So I ask people like, it’s usually not that we’re worried about making the wrong choice. We’re worried about not being able to recover if we find that we may have made the wrong choice. Oh yeah. Like if shit hits the fan, if we fail, if it doesn’t work out what you’re, because like history will tell you, you’ve recovered from 100% of, because you’re still here, we’re having a conversation.

[00:46:00]

You’ve recovered from every single mistake that you have made, every failure that’s happened might have been messy, might have been long, but you’ve recovered. And so I think that if we can. Get to the place where you, or maybe you don’t even need to ask yourself all those questions from chat g pt, like, you know, like, oh yeah, I have a, I don’t trust that I can bounce back from that.

That’s what we’re afraid of, or we’re afraid of the possible fallout or humiliation of, of what our mistake is going to look like in front of other people. That’s a lot of our own fear. So essentially we’re, we’re worried that we wouldn’t be able to recover from that, from that shame or humiliation. Yeah.

And so anyway, it’s like, it’s not about looking for a solution to the fear, it’s about, the way I like to describe it is like, you need to get intimate with this. You need to get in bed with your fear. Everybody gets real intimate and so like you, you know it so fast. Like that’s my goal for any of my clients.

Anybody in my community is like, you will never have an absence of fear. That’s never my hope for you.

[00:47:00]

My hope for you is that you see it very quickly and you can get to the bottom of it so fast and realize what the fear actually is about so that you can confront it. Yeah, so it no longer like has as much power over you and you can move through it.

Exactly. Even if you’re still scared. Yeah, and I, I think that part of that comes from all of the work that I’ve done around shame. Like if you would have told me, like in the very beginning of my career, especially when I was still drinking, like if I would go and get trained and certified by like a world renowned shame expert and I was going to incorporate that into my life coaching practice, I would’ve told you, you were nuts.

You are nuts. 2014, I took my happy ass to San Antonio, Texas and got trained in this modality, this research based modality. This is Brene Brown’s the Daring way Brown’s work, right? Yeah. I’m sure everyone listening has probably heard of Brene Brown. She’s incredible. She’s, and she was pivotal in my own sobriety too, and so I was deeply invested in her work and, and really went after 11 years of facilitating shame work.

[00:48:00]

What I have realized is that shame is embedded in our DNA, like in our, in the tapestry of all of our thoughts. It drives our decisions day in and day out, and we don’t even realize it’s happening. And there is the only way to have that not happen is realize where it’s driving the bus.

 

And like, I have whole talks on that and it’s really not that deep. Like, it’s just like, okay, the ways that you don’t want to be perceived by others that’s driving the bus subconsciously. That’s why you make most of the, like, trying to avoid shame, trying to avoid other people.

 

Yeah. Yeah. Like the reason that I came here to this, this meeting with you on time is, is a lot of it has to do with the fact that like, I don’t want you to think that I’m unprofessional or flaky.

Mm-hmm. I don’t want to have that feeling. So that’s motivation enough for me to show up is on time. You know what I mean? By the way, ditto. That’s the reason I read your whole book.

[00:49:00]

Yeah. Not that I didn’t want to, but I was like doing a book interview last night and my kids for this weekend. I was like, I have to read this book ’cause I do not want to show up and not have read it and not be prepared. So sometimes shame serves us well, getting the job done. It does.

Absolutely. Sometimes it can really, really serve us like that fear of shame. And other times it really doesn’t. And so that’s, yeah, it’s a whole nother conversation, but like, it’s at the crux of everything and that’s, I think, the biggest gift that I’ve gotten from getting that certification 11 years ago was like realizing how much it embeds itself in our lives and, and, and, and manifests this fear.

Yeah. Yeah. So understanding what that is. I, I have been saying this for years. Like, I am obsessed with getting to the root of the problem. I don’t want to mess around with anything that’s going to, like, have it take longer or be like, don’t placate me.

[00:50:00]

Like I, I don’t know, like, I just like direct me to the root of the problem so we can take it head on and the root of the problem more often than not a shame.

Yeah. That’s super interesting. I have to say, like right in the beginning of your book, you go into, okay, you may say you want change, but you’re not doing the work, right. You’re pretending and then you get to the point where you’re like, great, you are now at the ready place. Yeah. You’ve stopped pretending you want to change and next comes your intention and you list 6 questions that, you know, you encourage people to get really specific in answering and they’re like, what do you want more of in your life? What matters most to you? What do you need to let go of? What are you the proudest of? Okay, some of these, what’s next for you that’s in service of your highest self and who are you becoming?

I was like, oh Jesus. Those are life questions, right? Like, what’s next in service? I don’t know what the hell my highest self is. Like how do you begin to do that? Mm-hmm.

[00:51:00]

Well, that, that list of questions was intentionally there are, it’s like there are some like easier ones and then I added some more existential ones.

I was like, more of in my life, I want rest more. I want to see my bestie. I want like X, Y, Z. Then I’m like, holy shit. My highest soft. That I, that question was very intentional for people who were a ready to hear it and possibly answer it. And also like to, to show people that, that’s really the trajectory of like, questions that you start to ask yourself as you move through your own personal development journey.

Like, that literally is the first question I ask people. Like, in an intake or if, if I sit down on a plane next to a stranger and they ask what I do, and then they ask what life coaching is, that is the question I’ll ask them. Like, what do you want less of in your life? Especially if I’m sitting next to a woman, she will tell me, yeah, but I’m not going to start with you.

Start the answer of that. Right. Yeah. I’m not going to start with like, what’s in service of your greatest self. Like, that comes later. Yeah. But that’s a, that’s a big one. I, okay, so I want to turn it around on you if I can.

[00:52:00]

Like, in, in, so any of those do, maybe not the first maybe not that last one, but like the first five, do any of those help you find perhaps like any intention that that is Oh, yeah. Present for you to set? Okay, good.

Yeah. I mean, I have to say that like having been a coach for 6 years, I feel like the podcast is a week of therapy with an expert every, you know, an hour of therapy on any topic I’m interested in. And then, just talking to women all the time who are sifting through these big things and going to coaching school, I’m like, okay, I’ve got a lot of these answered meaning like, here’s what I care about, here’s what I’ve done, here’s what I’ve let go of.

You know, next, in terms of service of my highest self, I’m just like, oh, damn, that one’s, that one’s tough. I might need to go to a, to a weekend workshop to work on that one. The whole concept of like a higher self too, like that could be interpreted many different ways. Yes. So like, you can and it might be semantics for you, like you could, you could replace that with wisest self, next version of myself.

[00:53:00]

Like, it doesn’t need to be so big and esoteric. It could be just like, what is the 51-year-old version of Casey? Like, it could be that yeah, I just, I think that for me, one of the reasons I love that big existential question is because I’m 50 and I, I feel like I’ve gotten to the place where I can really accept and understand and I, and like plant medicine has helped me get there too, of just.

Why I am here. You know, like we talk so much about purpose and, and I can talk all day about purpose. I personally, I think we put way too much pressure on ourselves, around purpose, but at the end of the day, we’re humans. And I, I, it’s just this innate question that I think we all have in terms of like, does my life even matter?

Like, do I matter? You know, like, and I’m not the first person to like point out that these are big questions that we ask ourselves as humans. And so for me, I think when I left my marriage a couple years ago, I was at the perfect age to, to ask myself,

[00:54:00]

Why, what, what is it that I’m here? And it’s, it’s really not that complicated.

Like for me, it, it, it was very, very simple. The answer was just to experience the fuck out of my life. Like I mm-hmm. Want to, I even, I wrote about it back then and have continued to write about it. Like, I, I had this overwhelming feeling of like, the only answer for me was that this next phase in my life was asking me to say yes to my whole life.

Like, I wanted to grab my life by the face and like, make out with it. Like, and that’s how I describe what I want. So like, what does that mean in real life? It means deeply experiencing all of my life. So like, these hard conversations that I have with my, my partner David, like dropping into the fear that comes up, like that anxiety that’s been with me my whole life in every relationship I’ve ever had. Like in those moments, like deeply feeling it or like being at.

 

[00:55:00]

We have friends that are in like a family band and we went to this really cool outdoor venue and, and experiencing that. But just like taking a moment to close my eyes and like all of my senses, like how often do we ever, I sure shit didn’t do that when I was drinking.

Yeah, yeah. Like now I can do that and like to really experience like how fun it is to pick an outfit. Like now that I’m dressing how I actually want to dress, like, and I do like fashion show and I take pictures and like send ’em to my friends. Like these, like small, seemingly small and perhaps seemingly innocuous moments of life.

Like taking snapshots and memorizing the way the back of my daughter’s head looks like when she’s walking fast. Like that. That’s it. That’s like having this conversation with you were like, I’m not responsible for anyone else right now. Not even this cat that’s sleeping next to me. Like just you.

Like these are the, that has been the place that, I don’t even remember how we got here, but just like setting intentions and asking yourself these existential questions. Like that big existential question.

 

[00:56:00]

The answer to it was just experience life and it’s been the most liberating goal of life. I’m like, oh, is that all I have to do?

I love that you said that about purpose. So, ’cause I also, you know, I felt like for many, many years, you know, when I finally did my core values, you know, your parents instill in you like, this is what you should care about. Right? Like, being competent or responsible or reliable or whatever, you know?

 

Yeah.

 

And so when I finally did my core values, once I’d left corporate, when, you know, and they were like, pleasure, integrity, connection, optimism, beauty. I was just like, if I show this to my mother, other than integrity, she would be like, that is very shallow, right? Mm-hmm. Like pleasure and optimism and beauty.

But like you said, sort of similarly, not exactly the same, like. I am the kind of person where I was like, what’s my purpose in life?

[00:57:00]

And part of me is like to experience it, to enjoy it, to live. And you know, people are always surprised when I, you know, ’cause I’m a coach and sober coach, and people are like, one of your values isn’t service.

And I’m like, no, it’s connection. You know, like, and optimism and integrity. Like, those are what I care about. So, a couple years ago, sort of like it was hitting this one of my big resolutions was, and we talked about this in your, in your previous book about like, make some noise and stop trying necessarily to be the good girl.

 

We’ve been conditioned to. I’m struggling to outgrow it, but I’m working on it every day. I saw this quote and it was basically something to the effect of like, go do main character life shit.

 

Mm-hmm. And to me as a mom, as whatever, as a good girl, I realized that I’d been playing this like, supportive character in my life, right?

Like the oh, I don’t want to, I don’t want to spend too much money on myself, or I don’t want to go do that, or I should really think about X, Y, Z.

[00:58:00]

And so, like my motto for the past couple years is just like #maincharacterlifeshit. And it’s given me so much permission with my husband and with everyone else.

He’s like. You’re going to Provence with girlfriends, like, you’re not taking the kids, you’re not taking me, you’re spending a shitload of money. I was like, yeah, I’m doing main character life shit.

Yeah. And same thing, like I’m 50, fuck that. You know? Yeah. Like that, that’s like women in men’s fields. Like I love that expression too.

Like when you’re, when you say something that would be like normal for a man to do, like, okay, but for a woman it’s different for a mom. Oh, you’re going to go spend money on this. You’re leaving your children, you’re not taking vacation time to do a family thing. And I’m like, yeah, not anymore. You know? I love that so much.

It’s similar to like when I declared, when I left my marriage and like, I really loved the notion of just making the decision that I am the prize. And for mine, it was more specific. Like, because I started dating again.

[00:59:00]

Not at all with the want of a new relationship, but I didn’t know.

I had so many questions for myself, like, what do I actually want in bed? Do I even like having sex with men anymore or have I just been told that my whole life and I’m really, you know, like not straight. Like, so it’s like I had to, I wanted to like collect data and like ask all these questions of myself.

And so by walking into that life I called it, you know, like my feral girl summer. Like, I had to also test my boundaries, like, and, and, and by test my boundaries, I mean like how well do I set them when I know.

 

So, that was part of the experiment and I was always very upfront with people. I was dating too, and I’m like, I’m on this little pilgrimage, I’m on this little midlife pilgrimage.

And, and it was, I walked into everything with big prize energy. Like I had a playlist called Big Prize Energy. I wrote about this in the book a little bit where I just, yeah, it was it was my own version of behaving self-centered.

 

[01:00:00]

It felt like I was behaving self-centered, but like really, I just was like prioritizing my social life.

 

Yes. That’s really all I was doing. Like I wasn’t neglecting anyone and I learned so much from that time and I made a lot of really great connections. I ended up meeting my partner on accident, but my, my whole point was, it was that setting the intention of I just want this, the, you know, the next however long six months of my life to be focused on experiencing life and getting curious too.

Like that was part of it too. But it was really more about the experience and how I fit into that. So for, for me it was like, it was main character energy. It was big prize energy. It was like, that was my. Role. Yeah. In that, yeah. Era. Okay. I want to know if you have that playlist, because I would love to have your like, big prize energy.

Have you shared it on social or Instagram or anything? I have not yet. That one is per personal ’cause it has some pretty cheesy songs. Like it has, I’ll just tell you, I’ll share it with you.

[01:01:00]

I will it has, you have to message me and ask me, but it has Def Leppard’s pour some sugar on me and kickstart My Heart by Motley Crewe ’cause those are two of my favorite, like, big hair band songs.

So, it’s, it’s some songs like that, like just taking you back to an earlier time when you were like, yeah, yeah. It’s just like if I was the way I looked at it too, it’s like I’ve, and I, I changed even like the way that I, I, I’m dressing now like I wanted to when I was in high school, even though I, I didn’t dress like that.

The way I looked at it. ’cause someone asked me like, what, what did, what do you consider your style? And I’m like, well, it’s kind of like if Morticia Adams had a retired party, girl, sister, like that’s God, my style. Oh my God, I love it. And so I’ve always worn black nail polish and I’m usually like, have a lot of rings on.

And but like, that was, that was part of it. Like I wanted to really just embrace a part of me that I had made wrong for so many years. Like, I, I couldn’t be that person. And I also, here’s one for anybody who’s, you know, thinking about kind of throwing caution to the wind and having that era in their life, it’s helpful to put a container on it.

[01:02:00]

It’s less scary to put a container on it. So, it’s like, it’s just for the winter or it’s for all of 2026. So you put a container on it and you really set an intention of like. What this means to you? Like what’s the point? Are you trying to answer a question? Are you trying to like prove that you can do it and be okay?

Like it can be helpful to, it makes a little bit more sacred. Almost like a ritual.

Yeah, that sounds like a lot of fun. I think I’m going to, I think I’m going to set an intention, maybe not in the winter. This is like fire, basketball, games, kid stuff. Yeah. But like, I’m going to go to Greece in this summer, so I feel like that’s the perfect time.

I love that. To set the intention to experience it all. Yeah. Well even if it’s like winter, like for someone listening who wants to, to try this, it’s like, what if you had, like, you spent, I don’t even if it’s just like December and January, like being uh um, like a Mrs. Roper type where you like it’s your job to rest.

[01:03:00]

Yeah. Yeah. That’s part of your job description. It’s what’s expected of you.

All right. That’s perfect. Okay. Tell us about the book, where to find it, how to connect with you, all that good stuff.

Live like You Give a Damn. Published By Sounds True. Wherever books are sold. I’m also doing a free workshop the week before Christmas, and it’s not like a new year, new year, let’s pile on more productivity. No, it’s like three of my favorite chapters from the book and like how to bring those into 2026.

 

So, andreaowen.com, they can find out about it there.

All right, andreaowen.com. Thank you so much for coming on. I love our conversations.

Thank you so much Casey, and thank you everyone for listening. I appreciate your time.