Make Some Noise: How To Speak Your Mind + Own Your Strength with Andrea Owen

For women, moving away from behaviors that don’t work for us anymore, letting go of core beliefs that convince us we’re broken and not enough, laying a stake in the ground around our desires, is an act of making noise.  – Andrea Owen

Have you ever received the message that you’re “too much”? Too loud, too opinionated, too sensitive or emotional, too talkative, too big, too something…

As women we’ve been socialized since birth to smile, make others comfortable, go along and get along, be helpful and put other people’s needs before our own.  And a lot of the time we don’t even consciously realize this is happening. 

But repeating these behaviors, over months and years, can lead to resentment, poor boundary-setting, people-pleasing, approval-seeking, lashing out, negative self- talk, and unnecessary apologizing.

My guest today is Andrea Owen. She’s an author, global speaker, and professional certified life coach who helps high-achieving women maximize unshakeable confidence, and master resilience. 

Andrea’s taught hundreds of thousands of women tools and strategies to be able to empower themselves to live their most kick-ass life through speaking, her books, coaching, and her wildly popular podcast with over 3 million downloads.

She is the proud author of three books: How To Stop Feeling Like Shit: 14 Habits That Are Holding You Back From Happiness, 52 Ways to Live a Kick-Ass Life: BS Free Wisdom to Ignite Your Inner Badass and Live the Life You Deserve, and her latest book, Make Some Noise: Speak Your Mind and Own Your Strength.  

Today I’m talking with Andrea about common behavior patterns that sabotage our power as women and how to unlearn what we’ve been taught so that we can create a life that serves our needs and desires. 

In this episode, we discuss:

  • How women have been conditioned, both subtly and overtly, to stay small, “in our lane” and make others comfortable

  • Why to start asking for everything you want
  • Why to stop waiting until you’re “ready”
  • How and why we use alcohol to ‘check out’ from our lives
  • Your truth vs. your conditioning, internalized misogyny and what the patriarchy has to do with it 
  • Why Andrea quit drinking 10 years ago 
  • How Beyoncé, Billie Jean King and Wonder Woman can help you take up space and shine bright
  • How curiosity and self compassion can help you unlearn behaviors that are holding you back 

    Want more support, resources and tools to help you go alcohol-free?

    Join The Sobriety Starter Kit. It’s the private, on-demand coaching course you need to break out of the drinking cycle – without white-knuckling it or hating the process.

    Grab the Free 30-Day Guide To Quitting Drinking, 30 Tips For Your First Month Alcohol-Free

    More about Andrea Owen

    Andrea is a Certified Professional Co-Active Coach (CPCC) from The Coaches Training Institute, a Professional Certified Coach (PCC) with the International Coaching Federation, a SHE RECOVERS® coach, as well as a Certified Daring Way™ Facilitator; a modality based on the research of Dr. Brené Brown. She holds a Bachelor of Science from California State University in Kinesiology with a specialty in Health Science. Andrea has been featured on The Huffington Post Live, xojane.com, NBC, and Entrepreneur.com. 

    She has facilitated many workshops for girls hosted by Dove’s Campaign for Real Beauty whose efforts inspire and empower women and girls to live confidently and change the world around them.

    When she’s not juggling her full coaching practice or writing books, Andrea is busy riding her Peloton bike, chasing her two school-aged children or making out with her husband, Jason. She is also a retired roller derby player having skated under the name “Veronica Vain”.

    Learn more about Andrea at andreaowen.com.

    Follow Andrea on your favorite social media platform

    Instagram , Facebook , Twitter , YouTube , Pinterest

    Want to connect and talk about this podcast?

    Take a screenshot of your favorite episode, post it on your Instagram and tag me @caseymdavidson and tell me your biggest takeaway!

    Want to read the full transcript of this podcast episode? Scroll down on this page. 


    Make Some Noise: Speak Your Mind and Own Your Strength

    with Andrea Owen


    drinking, people, women, book, life, coaching, started, talk, culture, internalized misogyny, conversation, taught, experience, feel, question, speak, Casey, podcast, boundaries, depend, make some noise, Speak Your Mind and Own Your Strength, empower, hope, inspire, manifest, self-esteem, self-confidence, self-talk, self-care, pay attention, curiosity, self-compassion, keep the momentum

    SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Andrea Owen


    Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

    In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

    Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a bus, how to sit with your emotions, when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

    I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

    Hi there. If you’re listening to this podcast, I’m betting you’ve been going back and forth for a while now on whether or not you should stop drinking. And I want you to raise your hand. If you’ve had any one of these thoughts. You might have been thinking, I’m not that bad. I actually don’t want to stop drinking completely. I just want to drink like a normal person. Or maybe you come home after work. And you think I know I shouldn’t drink tonight. But I literally can’t relax or have fun without it. It’s really common to say I’ve tried to take a break from drinking before. But it’s just too hard. I always give up anyway. So what’s the point in trying again, or here’s one I hear all the time from women, everyone I know drinks. If I stopped drinking, I will be bored. Or I’ll be boring, I’ll have no fun. I’ll never be invited anywhere. I’ll just sit home and be miserable. Or maybe you can insert Whatever your reason is there. So is your hand up? If it is, that is totally okay. And that’s because taking a break from drinking and changing your relationship with alcohol. This shit is hard. And that’s why I’m really pumped to invite you to my brand new, completely free 60-minute master class, The 5 Secrets To Successfully Take A Break From Drinking. Even if you’ve tried and you failed in the past. After you take this free class, you’ll realize why what you’ve been doing up until now hasn’t been working and what to do. Instead, we’re going to cover all the juicy topics, including what questions you need to stop asking yourself, because they’re setting you up for self-sabotage, not for success. We’re going to talk about exactly what you need to do differently. So you can stop the exhausting cycle of stopping drinking and then saying Screw it and starting again. And we’re going to talk about the real reasons you haven’t been successful. And I’m betting they’re not what you think they are. And this isn’t surface level stuff. I am handing over the strategies and the mindset shifts I go through every day with my private coaching clients. If you’re listening to this podcast, I really encourage you to take a moment and sign up for this completely free masterclass. It will help you on your journey to drink class, and with more to feeling better. So if you want to save your spot, go to hellosomedaycoaching.com/class while the class is still available, and I really hope to see you there…

    I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today because she is a woman that I’ve been following for over eight years. Andrea Owen is an author, a global speaker and a professional certified life coach who helps high achieving women maximize unshakable confidence and master resilience. She’s taught hundreds of 1000s of women tools and strategies to be able to empower themselves and live their most kick ass life through speaking her books coaching, and her wildly popular podcast which has over 3 million downloads. She’s the proud author of three books, I have them all. She wrote, How To Stop Feeling Like Shit, 14 habits that are holding you back from happiness and 52 ways to live a kick ass life. And she’s here to talk about her new book, Make Some Noise, Speak Your Mind and Own Your Strength.


    Plus Andrea quit drinking almost 10 years ago. How I was introduced to Andrea was actually, I know a lot of you listening are familiar with the podcast The Bubble Hour. And the first time I stopped drinking, I was walking the hills around my neighborhood, and listening to The Bubble Hour. And I stumbled upon an episode with Andrea and one of her best friends, Courtney. And it completely gave me hope and useful ideas and inspired me that life without alcohol was better.


    So Andrea, welcome on the podcast.


    Hi, Casey, thank you for that wonderful introduction. I’m excited for this conversation. I am too. So one of the reasons I love your new book, make some noise. And I’ve been underlining so much of it is that you really talk about sort of the culture that women are raised in and socialized in, and how that sort of impacts our emotions and our actions and any, you know, all the aspects of our lives.



    Yeah, that was really the jumping off point several years ago, when I started thinking about my next book and what it was going to be, and I think it was around 2015, I wrote a poem on my podcast called my resignation. And it was it was basically about, you know, writing a letter, if you will, to everyone, the culture society, and just saying, I’m done with this box of conformity that, that we’re taught to be in that we’re more valued if we stay in our quote, unquote, in our own lane. And that I knew also that I couldn’t talk about women’s empowerment anymore without talking about this, because it is sort of like the elephant in the room. That is the root of the problem for so many of the issues that women come to me with.


    Casey McGuire Davidson  06:30

    Yeah, so tell me about that. What are the issues that women come to you with? And what’s keeping them stuck in those patterns?



    It’s several things I’m thinking about some of the clients that I have right now. And for some of them, they don’t come to me and say I’m a chronic people pleaser Can you can you come and help me it’s, it’s usually the sort of general malaise that they’re feeling about their life, or they have such a hard time, they’re struggling in their relationships, maybe it’s like with their partner, or their work relationships, or, you know, maybe with their friends, and they don’t have the tools or skills to speak up for themselves and communicate properly, what’s going on with them. Some of them, you know, complain about being perfectionist and just procrastinating on living their life and just not having the confidence to either, you know, start their own business or go after something. And some of them just kind of can’t put a finger on it, but they just don’t feel fulfilled. And when we get down to it, it has a lot to do with kind of the basics of life coaching, like their values and things like that. But it also comes down to how they were raised not just from their parents, but from our culture and how we as women are taught usually, not explicitly, sometimes we are, but it’s this unconscious sort of messaging of be accommodating, make sure everyone else is comfortable, don’t rock the boat, Don’t make a scene and you there are real implications. When we, when we stray away from that I’m not going to sit here and say like, Yeah, everybody just needs to start flipping tables and flipping off their boss. No, it’s not about that. What I want the reader to get from the book is just curiosity. And if they’re ready, which I hope they are, is to push back on the culture.


    Casey McGuire Davidson  08:13

    Yeah, and even internally, right, because a lot of times we keep ourselves small, because we have a lot of worries, or anxieties or fear, kind of about what the blowback will be.



    Sure. And that’s a very real fear, I’m not gonna sit here and tell you that it’s not, and you know, or that you’re making it up, you know, in the end, it depends on the woman, there are sometimes even bigger risks. So depending on your race, on your class, on your ability on your sexual orientation, you know, I come to this conversation as a white woman with immense amounts of privilege. And so when I speak up, whether it’s on social media, or on my podcast, or you know, if I had like the corporate job where I needed to speak up, I don’t have a lot of risk involved. And I just say that to acknowledge it, it really depends. And again, I’m not telling everybody to go run amok. Unless, you know, your safety always comes first. And But yeah, I mean, even within families, it can be risky to speak up maybe about family dysfunction, even if you know, you’re an adult, and you’re talking to your parents about it. And there’s also real strategies of how to do it correctly. But my point is, is that it’s also imperative to do the internal work before you take action.



    Yeah. And so tell me about that internal work, like how does that begin? Well, if somebody is just starting out in it, one of the questions that I posed in the beginning of the book and that I peppered throughout is the question, what is your conditioning versus what is your truth? So say you are hesitant to maybe you’re a business owner and you, you know, make your own prices or you’re at work and you’re hesitant to ask for a raise or ask for a promotion. Question becomes like, what do you make up might happen? Are you worried that you are going to be misunderstood and Somebody will take something out of context. Are you worried that only? You know? Do you make up a story about the kind of woman that asks for more money or raises her rates? Like, are they greedy, opportunistic, because there’s conditioning in there, you know, there’s something going on that you may or may not be conscious of. And then what is your truth? You know, the truth really is, is that you’re entitled to get paid for your experience and your expertise. Your truth might be that you have ran a business for 10 years and haven’t raised your rates in five years or so just to get really curious about that. Maybe journal on it on that question, what is your conditioning? versus what is your truth?


    Casey McGuire Davidson  10:38

    Yeah, I love that. And I love when you were saying like, your internalized conditioning our ideas about like women who asked for more, and what kind of people they are, because we’ve internalized that, right, when we judge other women, for the same things that, you know, we dislike that society judges, women for.



    Yeah, I’m reading a book right now called, Rage Becomes Her. And I cannot remember the name of the author, I, that’s I know, that’s the title of the book, The woman’s name starts with an S, I can remember that. But she talks about anger, like just, you know, just let’s just talk about the emotion of anger, and how there’s, and She cites a bunch of research that was done even on babies and toddlers, and how we’re socialized differently. As little boys and little girls as babies. It’s fascinating how we rate babies faces, depending on if they’re a boy or girl and like sad versus angry, we’ll get into the research, but it’s my point is, is that this starts very young, you know, this is why the term resting bitchface is my opinion, like why this came about is because for a woman to have a neutral face. And you know, if she’s not smiling, which that’s what that was another part of the research that little baby girls are encouraged to smile more than little baby boys are, it’s starts that young. But you know, resting bitchface is, you know, when we are not smiling, we are viewed differently towards boat to both men and women. It’s so fascinating how much our upbringing in our culture, and society influences how we show up as adults. And I, the reason that I emphasize it so much here on your show, and in the book is because I don’t want women to think that this is their fault. Yeah, like, yes, we become adults. And we are then responsible for our behavior and our beliefs and the action we do or do not take however, culture plays a big part of this. And this is also not to give you an out to say like, well, that’s just the way it is like, No, you can simultaneously work on it on yourself, and work on changing the narrative of the culture.



    I love that you said that. And actually, when I was reading your book, I like circled resting bitchface first, because I love any book that mentions that I was just like, oh my god that is so classic. But I also was introduced to the phrase I first learned about it when I was working at L’Oréal in corporate digital marketing. And I hadn’t heard it before. And they were like, of course, it is 80% women in corporate digital marketing at L’Oréal. And there it was women who introduced me to that phrase about other women. Right? And I was just like, so when I was reading that I was just like, holy shit. Yes. And I was just like, Oh, yeah, you know, like, I bought into it. Because I was just like, you’re right. And it’s that, you know, there were not a lot of men in that circle that was like women, talking about other women and how you’re supposed to smile, and you know, act and all the things. So, I was completely blown away and really interested in that. And it made me question of course, things that I’ve done in the past, because I’ve been socialized and sort of my personality is to be very nice and smiley and make other people comfortable.


    And I was even recognizing this morning, my daughter, I have a seven year old daughter, Laila, she did not speak to me, the entire walk up to the bus stop, just before I jumped on this call, and had her arms crossed. It was giving me like the sour face. And it was because I was like, getting her ready and all the things and she was like, totally, like, had a tone and was like, I’m sorry, mom, you’ve already told me that. I don’t and I was like, tone. Do not talk to me that way. And it’s such a, like, I want her to be sweet. Like, Hey, Mom, thanks for telling me. You know, huh?


    Well, and you make a good point because it’s a tricky balance, too. You know, I have a boy and it’s I have to question myself, sometimes I’m like, Am I saying this to him? You know what I say the same thing to the other child, you know? And so sometimes? I don’t know.



    I don’t know. But I think it’s a good thing to kind of question yourself. And so my personality, like I’ve always been, like enthusiastic and fun, like, that’s how people describe me. But I’ve also been described as intimidating and, you know, sometimes aggressive and assertive and very direct. And those qualities, if you will, I take those to heart more. And I do notice, and this has been happening for decades, that I am very cognizant of reading people and how I’m being kind of assessed by other people. And I also read somewhere recently that there was research done about women and their faces and how much we raise our eyebrows to create a more open face, so that we are perceived as nicer and like more open and accommodating. And I was like, I do that all the time. And like To be fair, I don’t know if that’s just my natural expression, or if it’s something that I’ve adopted as a coping mechanism to get people to feel like they’re safe with me and feel like they’re comfortable. Because I think my go to, honestly is more of like a resting bitchface like, but I’m not mad, it’s just my natural face.


    Casey McGuire Davidson  16:25

    You just don’t spend all your time contorting your face to look friendly every time you walk around the world. Exactly. Like and there’s been plenty of people who have asked me like, Are you mad? Are you upset? And I’m like, No, I’m just not smiling. And like, I don’t think they would ask the same thing to my husband.



    Yeah, yeah. Well, and all of this is to say, of course, like, it’s not bad to be smiley and friendly, and like people, but it’s also just to question why you’re doing it. And if you’re afraid of something if you don’t, or how much energy that’s taking out of you.



    Right, exactly. And, you know, I think it’s not a coincidence that more women struggle with people pleasing and imposter complex and perfectionism than men do. Men definitely have their own challenges. Their challenges are different than ours. And their challenges are also cultural, too. But I’m not an expert on that, that’s for somebody else. And it’s, it’s cultural, I think it’s a combination of our wiring for one, you know, like, I recently got diagnosed with a few different things. And one of them was impulse control disorder, which is very interesting, because that has to do with addiction. We can talk about that if you want. But I think you know, for some people, they have more of a sensitivity around rejection, and so that could cause them to people, please more, or, you know, be more inclined to engage in perfectionism. And also, you know, depends on your upbringing from your family, and a lot of it. And I would argue most of it comes from our culture.


    Casey McGuire Davidson  17:52

    Yeah, well, I want to talk about all of that. But yeah, you brought up addiction. I know you quit drinking almost 10 years ago, I quit about five and a half. I feel like a lot of women who are caught up in all of this, right perfectionism, people pleasing, inability to, or just being slightly uncomfortable taking up space, all that stuff, tend to do all the things and then come home and drink a bottle of wine to like, shut down their minds and forget about all the things. And tell me a little bit about your thoughts on that.



    Yeah, it’s such an interesting conversation. And, you know, full disclosure, I’m not a substance abuse counselor, or I just I, you know, I’m certified in a lot of things, but that’s not one of them. But I do have a lot of experience in sobriety and recovery. Also, my dad got sober when I was 18. That’s that was in 1993, I believe. Yeah. 1983. And he passed away in 2016. But he had many, many, many years of sobriety. And it’s so interesting in my experience, and I only know this in retrospect, I could not have told you this when I was still drinking. I could not be I had severe codependence. And what that looked like for me is that I had an inability to be with anyone’s feelings, including my own. And so that manifested as, as you’re trying to control others trying to control every situation having really poor boundaries, martyrdom, and just, it was it’s not it’s not a fun place to be. But when it’s all you know, it’s all you know. And I also was just kind of trying to run away from my life, like I didn’t have the skills I was incredibly emotionally illiterate. I did not have the skills to process any of my emotions to talk about them in a mature way, or even really, in an immature way. Like I just didn’t, and I was I was very much I’m dichotomous with my emotions either. I was all in completely And, and had very little control of my emotions. So it was like, you know, breakdowns or outbursts or I completely compartmentalize and boundary it off and like shut them all down, which I can still do in times of stress, which is frighteningly interesting. But it’s like, that’s kind of a nutshell of how I was I was living. Couple that with impulse control issues where I would try I think like many people probably listening to this, to just have a couple of drinks, and I didn’t have an off switch. And I just would keep going, whether I was out with a bunch of friends or by myself at home, I just, I had the mentality like, if one is good, then five is better, like just the access of it. So it was sort of a recipe for disaster. That’s how I found myself pretty dysfunctional when it came to my relationship with alcohol.


    Casey McGuire Davidson  20:58

    Yeah, I mean, I I’m nodding my head, because all of that sounds like me. I was interested in you said, severe codependency and then trying to control everything, like what’s the connection there for you. You mean with drinking or with codependency with codependency, right? Because that’s not a lot of times people think of codependency is like going along with what everyone else thinks. But then you describe it as sort of control. And I know sometimes it’s manipulation too.



    Yeah, I think there’s a misconception with codependence and they think that it’s sort of like, you know, maybe two people and meshed with each other, and not very much can be a manifestation of it. But it’s, it’s, it’s a little bit more complex than that. And I like the definition of you know, it’s like this complete inability to be with our own feelings be with other people’s feelings. And because of that, we behave a certain way, we also very much take care of other people, and then get resentful when our needs aren’t met. We don’t have the boundaries, to be able to take care of ourselves or tell people No, and then we get pissed that they’re not taking care of us or that we don’t have time to take care of ourselves. Like, I don’t know if I’m answering your question, Casey, but I’m trying to think of like how to describe from how it showed up for me as I was obsessed with controlling other people’s behavior. So I would very much like get involved in any kind of drama, like, like, with my family. And if there wasn’t any, I might like try to make some and then try to like, you know, help people, but it was all in an effort. Like, I might say, I would have said, like, Oh, I just want to help people. But like the truth of it was I wanted to help people, because by doing so I was avoiding helping my own life.



    Yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Well, so how did that shift after you stopped drinking? Because I know, there’s always a lot underneath. I mean, that’s exactly what you’re describing underneath why we drink and then you take away, you know, that maladaptive coping strategy and you’re still left with all the stuff. Right?



    Which I was not prepared for that. I don’t know if you’re but I was no, absolutely.


    Casey McGuire Davidson  23:15

    When I also was like, Fuck, I stopped drinking. Why is not everything soft? Like, right? Am I still feeling anxious and dealing with this shit? Like, I took away the thing. I should be fixed.



    Right? I felt the same way. And I was I was pissed off and then I also like, couldn’t drink to take it away. Yeah, so actually, I started my healing from codependency before I quit drinking. So I also was in and out of an eating disorder, and I was a really bad love addict, which all love addicts are codependent but not all codependents are love addicts. So love addicts is basically like imagine, you know, just replacing drinking with people and like love relationships, you know, whether it’s men or women. I got help for that, like my life fell apart in like, oh 607 and then my therapist had been telling me for years that like codependency was a was a problem with me, but I was still so codependent. I was like, No, this is other people’s problem. Like, yeah, I might have a little bit of issues. But like if other people would just behave, then my life would be so much better and theirs would be better to they just don’t know yet. So when my life fell apart, I was forced to look at my own issues and codependence and love addiction. And my eating disorder were like the main things that I was looking at. And at that time, I wasn’t even really, drinking wasn’t really a problem because I had the other things. So when I started to heal from that and really looked at the symptoms, and move myself away from the symptoms, and did some therapy, to be in recovery, that’s when my drinking picked up and really went quickly and I was doing some research and found out that for women, we tend to You go down the elevator, if you will, faster than men. And there’s theories that it’s because we metabolize sugar differently and that we move into addiction fairly quickly. It can happen fairly quickly. And I knew that’s what was happening to me. And so I quit. So I quit in 2011. And I had started healing from the other stuff around 2007. So it was like those last two years, like 2009, after my daughter was born, 2010 was probably the worst of it. And then I got sober in 2011.


    Casey McGuire Davidson  25:34

    Okay, yeah. And that’s super common, right? I mean, I’ve experienced it, lots of women, you have a baby, you think when you get pregnant, that maybe it’s gonna solve the issue right now, I won’t be able to drink so much, I’ll be so happy. And then for a lot of women, it’s after they have a baby that the drinking like picks up because it is difficult to have this little person to take care of all the time, and you are more isolated and have fewer options for self-care and doing things for yourself and all that.



    Yeah, I had really bad postpartum anxiety. Actually more with my first baby, my son, it was it was really bad, like, bordering on psychosis. It wasn’t quite as bad after my daughter was born. But that was part of why I drank. And you know, it’s funny, my husband, we were talking recently about, because I was have auditory processing disorder. So when I’m like, parties are tricky. For me, even though I’m very extroverted. They’re tricky for me, because of all the different noise going on. And any said to me, he’s like, Before, we used to go to parties a lot, and you loved going to like bars and restaurants. And I was like, because I was always drinking, like, yeah, that was how I dealt with the anxiety temporarily. It worked. And till it didn’t, and then it was even worse than it was previously.



    Yeah, I get that. So talking about the book, I know that the first two chapters are all about taking up space and what you call shining too bright. When you talk to us about those two things, how they go hand in hand, and why they’re important.



    Yeah, the concept of taking up space, I wanted to write a chapter about it, because it’s one of those anytime there’s like a cliché that gets thrown around in the personal development space. Like I like to break it down for people because I think some people think that it might look a certain way or that it’s very surface level. And like, I’m here to say, like, you cannot take advice from a Pinterest meme, like you have to really dig in and understand what’s going on. So taking up space, you can take up space with your body, and that is, you know, body acceptance, you know, body liberation, many people call it or body positivity, whichever term you like better. And that is not an easy task. You know, living in a in a culture that we do, where there’s so much emphasis puts for women like on our body and appearance and also youth. So that’s one aspect of it. And then you can take up space with your voice that’s giving an opinion that is having a hard conversation, speaking up for yourself setting boundaries, and you can also take up space with your power and your confidence. So that’s setting goals and going after them deciding that you belong in leadership positions, things like that. And so there’s internal and external work, there’s the internal work like where is your hesitation? What are you afraid might happen if you take up space and I’m not saying that those fears are unwarranted, like sometimes there’s real risk. I’m not gonna say it’s all in your head and you just need to like go past it. And then there’s, you know, the, the action steps of it. And we’re talking about shining too bright they’re there. Those two topics are like sisters. The reason that I named it shining to shine too bright instead of just shine bright is because all humans but I’m gonna talk specifically about what it looks like with women tend to have a fear around outshining others, I shouldn’t say all humans, many humans have that fear of outshining others, so that might be you know, a sibling or your best friend or your partner. And for women, I think it’s especially a fear because we are taught to always make others uncomfortable. And then if we’re making others uncomfortable, or if we’re putting someone out that’s on us we are responsible for their feelings. And often this happens like with our parents, like if we make more money than our parents if we out earn our husbands if we’re in a heterosexual relationship and that can cause us to quote unquote play small and not go after bigger things not set bigger goals. And again, it’s just something that like I want people to look at like just where do you do that? I still do it sometimes like it you know, with my friends like I don’t want to be I have a fear around like hogging all of the spotlight and just like oh, Android you have to write another book like with some of your friends have been like wait for them to catch up, when none of my friends have been like, Can you not you Never, I’m just making it up. So that’s sort of like the gist of those two chapters.


    Casey McGuire Davidson  30:05

    Yeah. And part of that is also like the way we even accept compliments, right? Like someone’s like, Oh my god, that was so awesome. And you’re like, Well, you know, it’s not like, whatever, or Yeah, but this thing didn’t go right, right? We can’t even accept a compliment without trying to minimize it or go back.



    Right. So what I would ask someone in those instances is what uh, what about accepting that makes you uncomfortable? Like, if you were just to say thank you and you experienced discomfort? Why, like, tell me about that? Like, what would what would be so bad if you are do you judge someone who just accept accepts compliments with open arms and thanks and gratitude. So like that, that would be what I would ask people to do, is to dig into it. 

    Casey McGuire Davidson  30:57

    If you’re listening to this episode and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit. The Sobriety Starter Kit is an online self study, sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step-by-step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one-on-one coaching. And The Sobriety Starter Kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it, when it fits into your schedule.  You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time. This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step-by-step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life. You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better, you’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course.

    And when you say being uncomfortable with all the things was shiny, too bright, do you experience it like physically in your body? Or how does that sort of manifest?


    Sometimes not as much for me anymore? Just because I’ve been working on this for so long. But yes, sometimes I still do and I and what a lot of people probably experience is this similar Not always, but it’s the can be the similar manifestations and like physiological experience of shame. So and that’s, you know, a topic that I teach. And it’s so important when we’re doing shame work to understand what happens in your body. For many people, it’s you know, you get like a hot face or head and neck some people, you know, they’ll get red and their neck and chest. Some people get tingling, armpits, tunnel vision, dry mouth, like these are like biological things that happened to us that at one time. And sometimes, you know, depending if you’re going to get you know, chased by somebody with a knife, like they’re important for bodies to do, but not necessarily when you’re taking a compliment or, or something like that. So yes, that was a long way of answering yes, yeah, definitely happen.

    Casey McGuire Davidson  34:05

    Well, and so one thing I thought was interesting is you talk about two things at the same time, right? Being afraid of shining too bright, shrinking, to make others too comfortable or others happier and sort of not necessarily going for what you want. So you don’t kind of stand up, and then also kind of moving away or being absorbed from hustle culture, right, how those two things fit together.


    Yeah, it’s interesting. And I think that it’s a conversation that I think is important. Now, as many of us in the personal development space, you know, myself included, who were caught up in hustle culture. I mean, my first book 50 ways to live a kick ass life is wrapped up in hustle culture, and there’s some toxic positivity in there. And it was 2012. That’s what we were all doing. And when you know better, you do better and it was Probably around 2015 2016 where I started to think about it, and then I had my second burnout. And I thought to myself, okay, this can’t be the way to success, like, because this is not sustainable. And there were some other factors in there, like, I really had to have some hard conversations with my husband about the imbalance, you know, the division of labor that was happening. And so all this to say, I think that there is no perfect prescription that works for everybody, when it comes to deciphering. Like, are you participating in hostile hustle culture? Are you really playing small? Or is it enough like, each individual person has to decide, using their previous experience using the information that they have, and also using their instincts? Decide what works for them and what’s best for them. And I want to emphasize like the previous experience part, like, sometimes you don’t know, until you crash and burn, sometimes you don’t know until you decide not to go for something, and then it’s too late. And you missed an opportunity that you regret not doing. So I wish I had a better answer than saying it depends. And you have to figure it out for yourself. It’s usually not, sir, when it comes to what you just mentioned. It’s very personal and nuanced.

    Casey McGuire Davidson  36:26

    Yeah. Yeah. And it’s interesting, I actually just had a conversation with a client yesterday, who was sort of deciding about two jobs that, you know, her company her organization really wanted her to go for, which is a huge vote of confidence, right. And clearly, she’d been doing a kick ass job. And there was one that you could hear the energy in her voice, she’s like, this would be awesome, I could do XYZ, I could build a culture I would be, you know, the, I get to choose the office. And it could be no more than a 15 minute commute. And I could be home with my babies or meet the bus stop at 4pm and all these amazing things. And she’s also quitting drinking, right. So it’s super important to keep that like work life balance, and reduce overwhelm and figure out what makes you happy other than work, which can be really stressful. And the other job that her boss, and, you know, the general manager wanted her to go for was a lot of travel and really stressful and the internal politics and all the things and she was like, talking to me about it, because she was anxious about all weekend. And she said to me, I don’t want to do that. And I was like, okay, you know, what you want, like in one situation? You’re so excited. The other one, you’re really feeling dread? Why are you not just stating that? Or how big of a mistake would it be to step into a role that you’d like in your gut? Or like, I do not want this? You know, and like doing that check beforehand? And, and having sort of the bravery to turn down an opportunity? Yeah.


    Yeah. And I experienced something kind of similar. And this is sort of when I was exiting hustle culture and realizing how much I got caught up and was influenced by our industry in the coaching industry, and how, for a long time, it was like, you know, make six figures in your business. And then I and then I did that, and that was great. And then, you know, now it’s now it’s like minimum, like seven figure business. And I’m like, oh, okay, I guess like, that’s the next goalpost and people talking about, you know, building generational wealth. And I was like, all right, I think I’m out, like, I just have never really been motivated by money. And I sort of wish that I would be, but I am more motivated by experiences, like, what do I want to experience and that I am very clear on, it’s always been so difficult for me to make money goals. And I’m always way off, like, either way under a way over, it’s same when I make spaghetti, like I can make either way too much or not enough. And then there’s way too much spaghetti sauce, like, I’m like, Okay,

    Casey McGuire Davidson  39:09

    what if I just decided what I want to experience, because I’m very clear on that I can get really excited about it. And then I just build my goals from that. I’m really not all that interested in making seven figures, like I see. I have colleagues that have, and I have not, I have yet to meet one who is relaxed and like stress free and just like, has the sort of like level of anxiety that I have, like, I just it’s just not for me. And for a long time I had to I had to ask myself, is this like my money blocks?

    Casey McGuire Davidson  39:42

    Or is this is this like an upper limit problem, or is it actually true to me?


    It’s not like it’s I make enough money. Like I make plenty of money. I make more money than my parents ever did. I outturn my husband he was able to quit his job to be the stay at home parent I’m like I think I’m living a pretty damn good life, even though I don’t make a million dollars every year. Yeah. And I, I mean, that’s part of hustle culture. And, and I give that example, to point back to what I was saying before, and that it might take you a minute to come to the realization of, Okay, this conclusion that I’m coming to whether it’s about drinking, whether it’s about a job opportunity, whether it’s about how much money you make, whatever. Where is the where’s my come from? Like, is it the limiting belief or upper limit problem? Or is it my truth? And this also points to the conversation about what is my intuition versus fear? Because sometimes it’s hard to decipher that. And the advice I do have, like, like actual tools people can use, but at the end of the day, sometimes I’m like, sometimes you just have to give it time. Yeah. And just get quiet and make some decisions, and then kind of just feel it out. And, yeah, it’s, it’s tricky. And it’s not linear. And I wish it was.

    But yeah, that’s how I love what you said, as well. And it sort of comes back to the early part of our conversation where you said, it’s so important to ask, like, what’s my conditioning? versus what is my truth. And maybe I said it wrong. But you know, there are these twin, like, twin things we’re taught, like, one is fear of shining too bright, but the other is like, put your head down work hard, like, a lot of us, it’s like, go to a good college, get a job, climb the ladder, get the you know, the gold star girls, right? Like, we want the pat on our head. And it’s hard to step away and sort of separate, like, what will people think of me, if I don’t hustle so much If I don’t take the next step, in order to be happier, to some extent, or in order to live your truth versus what everybody thinks you should want?



    Exactly. Yeah, I love that. And I love how you said it. And it just, it’s such a personal journey. And you know, I have a lot of prescriptive answers about a lot of things. And sometimes I’m like, I don’t know, you have to you have to go out there and figure it out for yourself. Like I can give you tools and strategies to try to get to your answer. But sometimes it just brings you closer to the answer. And it doesn’t like you’re on the one yard line. It doesn’t actually get you in the it’s called the end zone, right when you make a touchdown are not a huge sports person.


    Casey McGuire Davidson  42:27

    Yeah, and I love when you’re just like, okay, in the book, make some noise. You take people through, like, questions at the end of everything, or like, okay, here’s how you’ve been conditioned. Here’s the culture raised in here, how it’s impacting you. And here’s kind of how to piece that apart and deconstructed. And it’s going to be different for other people. But yeah, what’s your, what’s your conditioning? versus what’s your truth? What are your fears? versus what you really want?



    Yeah, I have over 250 questions in this book. And I think that’s an indicator of where I am now in my evolution as a coach and facilitator, author, speaker, and is that we have to acknowledge that everyone isn’t starting at the same place. Everyone has different family of origin stories, some people have previous traumas. And some people have different resources and support. And so all that to say, like, what if I have all the tools, but what works for one person might not work for another. And then also, just side note, if none of the tools work for you, you might want to look into your nervous system like is something going on with previous trauma, or anxiety or depression or something that’s a little bit more clinical. But I asked over 250 questions in this book, because I want the reader to learn how to empower themselves. I want the reader to learn how to coach themselves, essentially, because I love coaching. It works like if you, you know, as long as the person’s like trained and experienced, and it’s so powerful when you can learn how to get curious about something, instead of making a quick judgment call on it or, you know, jumping to conclusions, or you’re making up stories about things that might not actually be true.


    Casey McGuire Davidson  44:18

    Yeah. And sometimes it really does to have that help to have that external perspective to have someone else or coach be like, how true is that? Or, you know, you start going through all the things and it’s like, Okay, in this part where you were talking to me, you said x, and let’s talk about that, when they’re sort of going through all the laundry list of like, I could do this or I could do that or I’m thinking this and what about that and it’s like okay, let’s hone in on this one piece that you said because that seemed really important, and kind of drill that down. One thing I wanted to go back to because I’m just really curious and you sounded so clear on it. And to have such Great energy, you said that you’re really clear on what you want to experience. And I wanted to ask like, what is that?


    Oh, okay. Yeah, I want to experience. So I decided in 2019, late 2019, that I was going to stop doing group programs unless I was co running it with a colleague, because I really liked doing it. And you know, it works. But it wasn’t. It’s not my zone of genius, as gay, Hendricks said. And that was a really there’s, there’s a point to my story, why I’m starting here, that was a pivotal moment, because from a marketing standpoint, that doesn’t make any sense for me to let that go. It’s, you know, we, in our industry, everybody talks about scale. And the way to scale is the one to many model, which works for some and it just wasn’t working for me it was it was more draining than it needed to be because of the way that I coach and how it when people get an etc., etc. So to let that go meant a loss of income. And so that’s really when I started asking myself the question like, what do I want to experience like, I love, love, love, love, love getting up on stage. And having people be engaged in a story that I’m telling where they are making themselves the hero of my story, even though it might be a personal story about me, even though it might be a story I’m telling about a client that I had, like they are seeing themselves in my stories, they are able to relate their life to what I’m telling them, and then they come up to me afterwards. And tell me about the aha moments that they had. That is such a different experience to me than running a group program. Totally different. Like it’s off the charts. And I also want to experience like writing books, there’s something really amazing about starting out with a Word document or my whiteboard that and I just like kind of throw up all of the ideas that I have, and like a mind map, you know, talk to my agent about it, create an outline or a book proposal, and then it turns into 85,000 words like that’s all put together like all these. It’s sort of like, I’m always fascinated with theatre productions and the amount of work that goes into a theatre production like this for entertainment for people. Books are similar, like the amount of people that have had their hands in this. It blows me away, and it excites me to no end. And like, that’s what I want to experience like those kinds of projects. And that just makes me so excited. Like it makes me so excited. And I fall into the biggest vat of gratitude. Like, I’m like, this is my life. Like I looked up to Judy Blume and Beverly Cleary and Francine Pascal who wrote the sweet Valley High series like I looked up to them so much. That seemed like such a far away. That was like, because I also grew up playing tennis that was as cool as being a professional tennis player. I was like, You are a legitimate like superstar in my eyes. Yeah,

    Casey McGuire Davidson  48:05

    like tapping into what you actually want versus, versus what people are telling you is the right thing to do and actually being like, okay, does this make me happy? Is this something I enjoy? Am I getting burnt out? Is this part of whole hustle culture? Like, right, all of that stuff?


    Yeah, and it’s not that I didn’t enjoy group programs, it was just, it was exhausting me more than it should. And I was like, that is a clue that this isn’t for me. And I felt really guilty about it, Casey, because, you know, I had a lot of people who wanted to join them. And, and it also, um, you know, it allows me to reach more people at a lower price. I’m like, so are books, books are even cheaper, then I can actually give them more information. So it was it was a hard road to decide on. But that question of what do I want to experience really changed everything?

    Casey McGuire Davidson  48:58

    Yeah, no, I love that. Okay, so I was reading through the book, and I think it was in the taking up space chapter. But you talked about the concept of having a board of directors. And what I loved about it was that it wasn’t the opinions of your father and your boss and your husband or even the women in your lives. You talked about your board of directors being Jennifer Lopez, Billie Jean King, and Wonder Woman. And I was like circling it because I was like, What would Jayla do, right? Just the idea of it. So can you tell me about that?


    Yeah, so this actually came from a coach of mine who she had us to do it as an assignment years and years ago, and I’m like, I am going to steal this. I credit her the book. But I also have like, on my wall you can’t see right now, Casey, but I have a picture of Dolly Parton. RBG Madonna’s on their Wonder Woman of course is there. Um, who else just other art and things like that and Amanda What was your name? The one who said the poem at the inauguration? Oh, yeah, sure that beautiful yellow. I remember her Garmin Amanda Gorman. Yes. And users of the G. Amanda Gorman. And she’s, she’s on there too. And so like these are these are the, it doesn’t have to be women. It can be anyone like these are the women who you would like if you could have a board of directors for your life, like an imaginary board of directors for your life where you could lean on them for counsel advising those types of things like who would it be? And it might be your mom and dad. Like it depends on your situation. But for me, like you said, it’s Jayla village, village and King Lady Gaga is on there. Cha de Gregorio from the mildly obsessed with her. But I think about that anytime I’m hesitating or afraid to do something. I asked like, what would JLo Do you know, what would Billie Jean King do when it comes to speaking up for women’s rights and, and it typically changes my perspective, sometimes I just need a nap. And like, I’ve gotten really good at knowing when I really do need a nap. And most of the time, it’s not just because I’m lazy, like I genuinely need to rest. So I’m not saying like I pedal to the metal all the time, like I used to be. But yeah, I love that. I love that exercise,

    Casey McGuire Davidson  51:08

    when it kind of just gives you the confidence to get over some of the fears or insecurities or things that are holding you back.


    Yeah, because we don’t, you know, I talk about this in the book, too, is there’s a myth that many people buy into that, we will start the thing when we get the self-confidence. It’s like, how do I get the self-confidence, I give me the blueprint for self-confidence. And I tell people all the time, like, you get competence through actions and experience, and then competence and mastery. And for women, it’s also you know, the unlearning of these old this old conditioning and programming. But you need courage first, and you don’t need a ton of it. Sometimes you just need like 30 seconds of courage, so that you can send the email so that you can put your new rates on your, on your website so that you can reach out to that person that you know, has been sober for many years and ask for help. The self-confidence comes later, when you have the experiences around the times that you had courage.

    Casey McGuire Davidson  52:08

    Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned reaching out to people, or someone who’s, for example, already quit drinking and kind of raising your hand and having the courage to say that and in your book, you talk about the things you should start doing. And then the things you should stop doing. And I wanted to talk about, you have a chapter that’s about stop checking out of your life. So tell me about that.


    Yeah, that’s all about, you know, the numbing mechanisms that we that we do, to avoid our life, like I was telling you about. And I and I want to, you know, also caveat this and say that it’s, I wrote actually more about what I’m about to say, and how to stop feeling like shit, and how the line between self-care and numbing out can be very blurry. And it really depends on the person. So I know for me, now I treat fiction books, as I did wine, you know, it’s like, I get nervous, if I don’t have a book, like lined up for when I finished the one that I’m reading, I did the same thing with wine. Like, if my inventory was running low, I would get nervous. And, you know, I can spend hours reading fiction and I sometimes, like I’ll get irritated when somebody interrupts me. Like, if I’m really deep in the story. The difference is, is that reading fiction isn’t negatively affecting my life. Like I’m not getting drunk from it. I’m not, it’s not impacting me the way that it was when I was drinking, or the way that I was when I was engaging in my love addiction, or my codependency. So I really can view reading as a method of self-care. One of the things I talked about in in the chapter and make some noise around checking out is, when it comes to feeling our feelings. I think the thing that we don’t really I certainly didn’t know this is that a lot of your power lies in the processing and sort of digesting, if you will, of our emotions, because I was shoving that down and shoving that down through drinking or whatever it was that I was doing. And I was just shoving down all the feelings and the trauma that I had experienced before. I didn’t know that once I walked through that I was going to be more powerful for having done it like that was news to me. It taught Yeah, pain equals pain equals power for sure.

    Casey McGuire Davidson  54:29

    Yeah, yeah. And one area of the book and it’s an area that I have been digging into more and so much more aware of recently, like in the last two years, is you talk about not ignoring the brainwashing and sort of the patriarchy, how it shaped women how we’ve internalized misogyny, and it’s taken me a while because it happens in really subtle ways right like in chronic dieting and being compared in the workplace or judging other women, you know, even online. And so talk to me about how that is something that as we gain awareness of can really make us stronger.


    Yeah, that was a that was a tough chapter to write, especially the part about internalized misogyny. And that wasn’t in my original proposal, like in my chapter summary, that was not something that I was even completely aware how to name. And so it was sort of new research for me. But as you mentioned, internalized misogyny can manifest as chronic dieting, slut shaming, unhealthy competitiveness, like in the workplace, or even within families. And in our industry, in personal development, we hear a lot of, you know, women need to uplift women, you know, we need to never put down other women, which I disagree with, like some women behave poorly, like, and they need to be held accountable for that and, and responsible for that.


    But for the most part, you know, I keep hearing like, Why do women put down other women and we see it like in Facebook ad comments, like just yeah, just like shooting each other down. And for really no good reason other than just being me, you know, and like, and just mean girls in general. Like, that’s internalized misogyny, you know, and I have, I have a friend who has a popular podcast, and she put out an episode where she was talking about, you know, like, why do we tear each other down and like, and I’m like, I need to come on your show and talk about internalized misogyny, because that’s what it is. And she didn’t even know she didn’t even know what that term was. So I like talking about it, but also dislike talking about it cuz it makes me so uncomfortable. Because I know, I still have so much topic.


    But um, we do it because again, like it’s what was a lot of times like it was what was modeled for us. And I hate to say it, but and I love reality TV, also, but shows like real housewives. Oh, my god, yes, the Bachelor. And I don’t even know if it’s on again. But there was one show for a long time, he was on VHS and called like bad girls club or something. Where it was just women fighting and being catty, and backstabbing each other and I’m like, Oh, my God, this isn’t how we are inherently. It’s not. It’s what we’re taught. And a lot of times we do it, to be able to get closer to power to be able to get closer to it. Like that’s what the bachelor is like, No, I know, I know. People are like, no, don’t take the bachelor away from me. I think it’s fine to watch it, but just understand what’s going on.

    Casey McGuire Davidson  57:33

    Yeah, yeah. And it’s like that idea of there’s only one seat at the table, or there’s not enough or why there’s almost jealousy, sometimes like, what does she get to do that? You know, like, let’s pull her back sometimes and right, and, you know, competitive in the workplace. So, so much of it is unconscious. But when you were saying I was like, Oh, yeah, that’s a cliché about women, or that’s something that stereotype. Yeah, a stereo. Like, I feel like a lot of stereotypes are internalized misogyny, that have been set up to keep women in a certain frame.


    Sure. And like, let’s be honest, like fighting is entertaining. A lot of times, it’s like, are we gonna are we gonna? Are we gonna tune in to a show where people are having, like, mature functional conversations? Like, that’s pretty boring. I know. Cuz I haven’t with my husband and like, they are not dramatic or, or entertaining by any means. So, I mean, I hope that most of it is scripted, and that it’s not really real. But it’s like, what are we? What are we teaching our daughters? Like, it’s just going to perpetuate this, this universal stereotype. That doesn’t have to be true. It doesn’t. It doesn’t. And that’s, that’s the conversation I want to have.

    Casey McGuire Davidson  58:51

    Well, and there’s a difference between like, being mean, or, you know, being a mean girl, or cutting someone down versus, you know, sometimes people say like, Oh, she’s high maintenance. And in the book, you talk about how women’s empowerment begins with women asking for what they want, period. So it’s like that line between? Are you high maintenance? Are you just drawing a boundary and asking for what you really want versus stuffing it down and bending over backwards and trying to accommodate everyone else? And then you get the drinks of what’s left? And I know for me, then let me drink a bottle of wine at night because it’s my only reward. 


    Yeah, I started I started thinking about this several years ago when I must have read an article somewhere about Tina Turner. And how she has been labeled a diva because she has very strict policies around when she’s touring and things like that. So it’s the whole like, nobody can come and talk to her and or maybe she’s like one person that now I don’t remember what the details were, but they were they were fairly strict. And like I am not nearly as famous as she is. And I’ve experienced that. Though before like, if I go and speak up on stage at like a large conference, if I’m if I don’t have someone there with me and I’m walking through the crowd, I will get stopped a dozen times to take a selfie for someone to stop and talk to me to tell, you know, for them to like pour out their story to me. And if that is unorganized, it can be a bit of a, it’s just can be chaotic. So I can’t even imagine what that’s like for superstars. And, and like, I understand that they have to have these rules and ask for what they want. And I, I’m gonna bet that when men do that, they’re just called rock stars, you know, and it’s just like par for the course. But when women do it, they’re divas, or they’re high maintenance. Yeah. And that’s what infuriates me. And just, that’s why I want to have the conversation is like, no, they’re just human that I mean, Tina Turner is also a rock star.

    Casey McGuire Davidson  1:00:53

    Yeah. And part of that is just would you make the same comment or have the same judgment about yourself or about someone else, if they were a man,


    right. And in order for people, you know, for Tina Turner, in order for her to be the entertainer that she is, she has to set these boundaries. And for a lot of people listening to this podcast, in order for you to be the woman that you are the employee, that you are the partner that you are the mom that you are, you also deserve to set boundaries. And again, we are I talked about this in the book, like there was a point where I realized I hadn’t made myself a priority. So I did make myself a priority, simultaneously realized that I was also continuing to make everyone else a priority, and it was just burnout. So it’s just something to think about when it comes to boundaries and what you’re afraid of being labeled as,

    Casey McGuire Davidson  1:01:43

    yeah, at the end of every chapter in Make Some Noise, you walk readers through what you call the unlearning. And there are four steps. So as women are listening this to take something away that they can implement today, as they’re kind of thinking about this and moving through their lives. What are those four steps?


    Yeah, so the first one is to pay attention. And it’s sort of a no brainer, like, and that just goes back to self-awareness that you probably hear a lot about when it comes to recovery, or when it just comes to personal development. So you have to pay attention to when your negative self-talk is cropping up. When you find yourself putting other women down, and you catch yourself doing it, you know, so it’s just pay attention. Just notice. That’s it. Just notice, it’s all about the noticing.

    And the second step is curiosity. And so instead of like when you notice, instead of suddenly naming and putting a label on it, like, well, that’s good, or that’s bad. You just get curious about it. Like that’s, that’s the goal. So like, why do you think that you judge women who are super ambitious? Why do you think that you drink an entire bottle of wine at night and can’t cut back even though you even though you want to like what is it that stopping you from reaching out for help? what’s getting in the way, every time you, you know, start drinking again. So just again, just curiosity.

    And then the third step is self-compassion. Because what often happens when we start noticing and getting curious is that we beat ourselves up for it, like we go down like that negative self-talk path. So you cannot better yourself without a healthy dose of self-compassion. I wish that that was a part of it, because I know how hard it can be. But that’s imperative.

    And then the fourth step, the last step is to keep the momentum. And what I point to, most often when I’m talking about keeping the momentum is having a conversation with someone, this might be your therapist, or maybe your partner, it might be your best friend might be your sponsor. Just someone like as you start to become aware, and get curious. Just talk about it. Like you can’t fix anything you can’t talk about.

    Casey McGuire Davidson  1:03:54

    You can’t.


    I’ve tried. I grew up in a family where that was our mo didn’t work. So yeah, those are the four steps.


    Yeah, I love that. And in the beginning of your book, make, make some noise. I love your letter to the readers. in it. There was a part that I wrote down because I was like, yeah, this makes so much sense. And you said, we as women have been socialized to not make too much noise, to put everyone else before us to make everyone else comfortable. And many times we don’t even consciously realize that it’s happening. But unconsciously we know it manifests in resentment, poor boundary setting, lashing out. negative self-talk, unnecessary apologizing. Yep, I do that. People pleasing, approval seeking, and that feels like shit.


    I think it’s one of those things too. I love a sayings. I don’t I don’t go to a anymore but they were better. Official to me for a while, and one of the things is it works until it doesn’t. And I think that so many of the struggles that women face when it comes to personal development fall into that category. You know, perfectionism and control worked for me in college and helped me graduate with honors. And it worked until it didn’t. And it’s the same with, you know, people pleasing and like, if we, if it didn’t work 100% of the time, we wouldn’t do it. Yeah. So it can work for a certain amount of time. And then there comes a time in place where we realize like, this feel like shit, like I, I wait. And sometimes like women will come to me again with this, like general malaise of, of not really able to point put their finger on what’s wrong, and I asked them, like, what are your coping mechanisms? Like? What do you do when things get hard? What do you do when shit hits the fan? What do you do when you and your partner have a disagreement? it you know, is it drinking? Is it perfectionism? Is it avoiding? And that can very much impact how they’re feeling about themselves and about their life?

    Casey McGuire Davidson  1:06:12

    Yeah, absolutely. Well, I have loved this conversation. Thank you so much for coming on. I know women are gonna want to get this book and follow-up with you. So what’s the best way for them to find you?


    Probably noise.andreaowen.com because they can click wherever to either get the e-book, print version or audiobook version of the book. And then there’s all the bonuses that are there, too. So there’s a 60 something page workbook, because I asked 250 questions in the book. They’re all there in a beautiful workbook for you. And there’s a book club that starts on September 20. It’s totally free if they want to join that to Ooh, I may have to join that myself, because I got to see your name in there.


    Very cool. Well, thank you so much. This has been amazing.


    Thank you so much, Casey, for having me. Thanks, everybody, for listening.

    Casey McGuire Davidson  1:07:02

    Hey there before I jump off this episode, I want to remind you that you can sign up for my brand new 60-minute masterclass, The 5 Secrets To Successfully Take A Break From Drinking, even if you’ve tried and failed in the past, by going to hellosomedaycoaching.com/class. Now, this training will not be around forever. So if you’re interested in figuring out what you’ve been doing up until now, and why it hasn’t been working, and exactly what to do. Instead, I encourage you to take a few moments, sign up, pick a time that works for you, and actually attend the session. I’ll teach you how to shift your thinking. So you can get out of the really shitty cycle of starting and stopping and starting again, and it’s okay if you’re thinking that you don’t actually want to stop drinking. I promise you, if you attend this class, you will change the way you’re approaching this process. So save your spot. Go to hellosomedaycoaching.com/class, and I can’t wait to see you there.

    So thank you for coming on here. I couldn’t appreciate it more. 

    Thank you for listening to this episode of The Hello Someday Podcast. If you’re interested in learning more about me or the work I do or accessing free resources and guides to help you build a life you love without alcohol, please visit hellosomedaycoaching.com. And I would be so grateful if you would take a few minutes to rate and review this podcast so that more women can find it and join the conversation about drinking less and living more. 


    The Hello Someday Podcast helps busy and successful women build a life they love without alcohol. Host Casey McGuire Davidson, a certified life coach and creator of The Free 30-Day Guide to Quitting Drinking – 30 Tips For Your First Month Alcohol-Free, brings together her experience of quitting drinking while navigating work and motherhood, along with the voices of experts in personal development, self-care, addiction and recovery and self-improvement. 

    Whether you know you want to stop drinking and live an alcohol free life, are sober curious, or are in recovery this podcast is for you.

    In each episode Casey will share the tried and true secrets of how to drink less and live more. 

    Learn how to let go of alcohol as a coping mechanism, how to shift your mindset about sobriety and change your drinking habits, how to create healthy routines to cope with anxiety, people pleasing and perfectionism, the importance of self-care in early sobriety, and why you don’t need to be an alcoholic to live an alcohol free life. 

    Be sure to grab the Free 30-Day Guide To Quitting Drinking right here.


    Subscribe & Review in iTunes

    Are you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode.

    I’m adding a bunch of bonus episodes to the mix and if you’re not subscribed there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on those. Click here to subscribe in iTunes!

    Now if you’re feeling extra loving, I would be really grateful if you left me a review over on iTunes, too. Those reviews help other people find my podcast and they’re also fun for me to go in and read. Just click here to review, select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” and let me know what your favorite part of the podcast is. Thank you!




    Connect on Instagram

    Get The Free 30-Day Sober Guide That Has Helped 20,000 Women Take A Break From Drinking. 10 Tips For Your First Month Alcohol-Free From Hello Someday Coaching.

    Get the FREE Guide


    You're In! Check Your Email For the Guide.