SUMMARY KEYWORDS

drinking, people, alcohol, book, quit, life, recovery, sober, support, quitting drinking, sobriety, jean mccarthy, podcast, wine, night, prepare to be alcohol-free

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Jean McCarthy

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a bus, how to sit with your emotions, when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Hi there. If you’re listening to this podcast, I am so glad that you are tapping into resources and coaching and support to change your relationship with alcohol. Whether you’re sober, curious, or just questioning your drinking, if you’re in early sobriety or further along, let me make the process easier for you. In addition to my podcast, I’ve three other ways I can help you drink less and live more. 

Number one, you can grab my free 30-day guide to quitting drinking, 30 Tips for Your First Month Alcohol-Free on my website. Just go to HelloSomedayCoaching.com. You’ll enter your email and the guide will be sent right to your inbox. Over 10,000 Women have downloaded the guide. It’s really comprehensive. It’s 35 pages long, completely free. It’ll help you know what to expect on day three and day five, what to do on day 60, tips and tricks and resources to tap into and how to approach 30 days without that milestone, tricking your mind to say Oh, you went 30 days without drinking, why don’t you just drink and you can do it again anytime you want? It’ll help you move forward because as you know that sober momentum is precious, and it’s really hard to get so if you want that free 30 day guide to quitting drinking day by day, just go to my website HelloSomedayCoaching.com. Sign up and it’ll go to your inbox. 

Number two, I really want to encourage you to take my free masterclass on Five Secrets to Taking a Break from Drinking. It won’t be around forever. It’s a limited time masterclass. You can sign up at HelloSomedayCoaching.com/class or just go to my website, you can find it there. It is one hour of coaching that will help you stop making the mistakes that are setting you up for self sabotage, and start using the practices that will help you succeed, even if you’ve tried to stop and failed before. These are the mindset shifts, and the habit changes, that I go through with my private coaching clients the minute they start with me. 

And number three, if you are ready to make this whole quitting drinking thing way easier and move from day seven and 14 to 45 and 60 to 100 days and beyond, and do it in a really positive empowering way where you’re not white knuckling it and you’re not stumbling around in the dark and you’re looking forward to the life you are building, not backward and feeling deprived, I want to invite you to join the Sobriety Starter Kit. It’s my signature sober coaching course for busy women to help you drink less and live more. In the course I’ll take you through my complete sober coaching framework that I work through with my private coaching clients but at a much more affordable price. You’ll get eight sober coaching modules with over 50 video lessons, plus resources and guides and a whole lot more. All available on an app too so you can tap into support anytime you need it. When you’re walking the dog or at a coffee shop, if you’re doing laundry, or tucked into bed, you’ll use the lessons on this course on day 10 and 45. But it’ll also give you the tools to navigate life with less stress and more ease for the rest of your life and you get lifetime access to the course. 

So if you’re ready to check out the sobriety starter kit and get all the details, just go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com or go to my website HelloSomedayCoaching.com and there you’ll find everything you need, how to grab the free 30 Day Guide to Quitting Drinking, how to sign up for the free one hour masterclass with Five Secrets to Taking a Break from Drinking, and all the details on the Sobriety Starter Kit, sober coaching course. All right, let’s go to the show.

Hi there. Today we’re talking about how to prepare to be alcohol free with the Jean McCarthy who has been on this podcast twice before. She is a writer, a podcaster and a recovery advocate who works tirelessly to help others find their most authentic life. Jean encourages a patchwork approach to recovery, in which growth and change is supported by using a variety of resources that suit the individual. As the producer and host of The Bubble Hour podcast, which I know many of you have listened to for years and years and years, Jean has shared the recovery stories of hundreds of guests, and has learned the value of continually assessing and improving one’s own recovery bubble. She shares her personal reflections on her own recovery in her blog, Unpickled, which documents her journey out of alcohol addiction from her very first day of sobriety in 2011. And since then she has helped 1000s of women find their way to freedom from alcohol. Jean received the 2017 Hope Award at the She Recovers New York City conference in recognition of her contribution to the recovery movement. Jean is the author of three books, including her latest release, Unpickled, Prepare to be Alcohol Free. And that’s what we’re talking about today. So Jean, welcome.

 

07:35

Hi. Nice to be here.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  07:38

Yeah, it’s so good to see you again. And I love having you on the podcasts because what you talk about in your books is so practical and so actionable and so free of judgment. And that’s the exact approach I love to take. So when I heard you were writing this book, I was like, first amazing. It’s so needed, but also, I really wanted to have you on to talk about it.

 

08:05

Oh, thank you. Yeah, I really think that there’s a lot of aspects about quitting alcohol that we think we know when we’re in that phase of contemplation before we quit. And we’re kind of wondering, do we have a problem? Do we want to quit? And all of a sudden, we’re kind of a victim of all of our stereotypical thinking like every movie, we’ve seen every episode of mom, which is a great show, I love it. But it’s not necessarily a real holistic picture of what our options are. And so I think what I really learned through a decade of listening to people tell their stories of recovery and podcasts like yours and mine and through blogging, and connecting online was that there was so much more to it, and so many more ways to come out of this and define ourselves. And I really think we have to know what all of our choices are so that we can choose how we want to approach quitting drinking, seeing ourselves and planning what that’s going to look like. And the time to do that is before you quit. So I thought there’s, we need a resource that you can read then because we all know when you’re thinking about it, you want resources. And yeah, I was really excited to create something that was kind of the book I wished I had when I was thinking about quitting.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  09:25

Yeah. And so many of the books out there I love but they’re also memoirs, which is amazing to hear someone else’s story. And it can be sometimes confusing when you’re like, Well, I’m not as bad as them or I didn’t do the same things they did or my life is different than theirs. And one of the things I like about this book is you really help people do an internal journey and not have sort of a one size fits all about how you need to label yourself or how You need to find support. Because you’re right. I mean, I think the average person spends between four and 10 years thinking about quitting drinking or worrying about their drinking, before they actually do it. I know, I wondered whether I had a serious problem with alcohol five years before I stopped drinking for the first time and eight years before I eventually stopped for hopefully the very last time six years ago. So I love that you’re using this time before we take the leap to really help you get your mindset right and kind of get prepared.

 

10:38

Mm hmm. Yeah. Because when we are going from the discovery, or the preparation, contemplation phase to the action of quitting drinking, it’s hard to build momentum. Because if we are in a cycle of addiction, or in a trajectory of addiction, it keeps pulling us back. So anytime, you know, for me, it was kind of a daily cycle, like I would be excited to quit drinking in the morning, and by the afternoon, my cycle of addiction was pulling me back to that drink, that afternoon drink. And these little actions, there’s 49 chapters in this book. And each one is one thing that you can do before you quit drinking to help set yourself up for success afterwards. And so in doing those things, it gives you something to do that day, that helps you build momentum, and eventually, you know, cumulative effect of that momentum, can help push you into action, or propel you into action. And then when you’re there, you have all of these, you know, strategies in place that you’ve been working on. 

 

So that was my mindset, you know, as I created it, and I really think when we are drinking problematically, whether it is technically an addictive substance use disorder, alcohol use disorder, whether or not we have officially, you know, medically entered that spectrum. Or if it’s just that we have a habit that we’re not feeling good about, it doesn’t really matter to me, where you fall on that spectrum. What matters is what you do about it, and my experience was that the longer I waited, the further I got, the more I drank, the harder it was to quit. So the more that my journey down that path progressed, the harder it got. 

 

But the other thing that happened was that the farther I felt separated from myself, and like you said, when you’re reading memoirs, you’re kind of all I always say this, I might have said this in previous times, I’ve been on your show, but addiction looks for differences and recovery looks for similarities. So when we’re reading a memoir, and we’re saying, Well, I’m not like this person, and well, I can’t be addicted, because I don’t do that. Really, that’s our addiction convincing us to keep drinking. That’s how I think you can kind of label it how you want, but it’s the part of your brain that wants you to keep drinking, that the part of your brain that’s wired for homeostasis, right, like, keep everything the same, this is working, this is what’s keeping us alive, keep doing it. So it’s trying to convince us all the time to keep drinking. And we look at a recovery memoir, when we’re maybe a little bit further down the road and a little bit more open, we probably will see all the things that we connect with, because our recovery is finding the similarities. 

 

So with this book, it’s really an invitation for the reader to look inside themselves, which is something that I think a lot of us stop doing, when we’re drinking in a way that we’re not comfortable with. And we look outside of ourselves for definitions of what does it mean to quit drinking, when, what I want you to do and what I invite you to do with this book is to look inside of yourself and see what’s in there with just just a little gentle like hello inside, who’s in there? What do you want? How do you feel about this drinking thing that you’re doing? What do you want it to look like to not be a drinker, we talk about labels, we talk about language. I didn’t quit drinking for a long time because I did not want the label of alcoholic and so I kept drinking, which makes no sense at all. And so when we really talked about language, we just discussed the fact that you know, you don’t have to adopt any labels you don’t want to, you can choose what this looks like for you and you can control the language around it and I think that’s an eye opener for a lot of people.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  14:23

Hi there. If you’re listening to this episode, and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, the sobriety starter kit.

 

The sobriety starter kit is an online self study sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step by step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one on one coaching. And the sobriety starter kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it. And when it fits into your schedule. You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time.

This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step by step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking, from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

 

You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better. You’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach, you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course 

 

Yeah, I mean, I think that’s really good. Because when you were talking about the idea of comparing and saying I’m not that bad as other people, that is something that stops people from taking a look at their drinking. And at the same time you said, you know, it stopped you from taking a break from drinking and really looking at it. And yet, the longer you went on drinking, the harder it was to pull yourself out. So it’s sort of this chicken and the egg when you think only people who stopped drinking have a quote unquote real problem with it or absolutely can’t drink or have some kind of a huge bottom that they need to pull themselves out of. And what I love about your book is you do go through it in a really simple step by step way that is not at all intimidating. I mean, your chapters are, you know, they start with find your why words, document patterns, adopt your preferred labels down to you know, consult a mental health professional and book a physical. I love that, that’s super important. As well as you know, going into stuff like, you know, make daytime plans, celebrate mornings, fill your freezer, close the kitchen. I mean, that’s so practical and good. And yet, you know, filling the freezer and celebrating mornings and closing the kitchen. That’s the opposite of labeling yourself as a quote unquote alcoholic or questioning whether you have a real problem or if you’re bad enough, it’s just like, hey, here’s ways to, you know, prepare to not only stop drinking, but like, stop making it this huge thing in your life, this huge backpack of rocks that you’re thinking about constantly as a worst case scenario.

 

18:28

Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think we think that it’s going to be we’re thinking all about the drinking, right? When we quit, we’re thinking of all the times that we’re drinking. But what we don’t always think about are the really practical things that end up becoming some of the stumbling blocks that people stumble on. And, you know, we hear the same stories over and over again, where people are like, they’re quitting, they’re doing great, maybe they have a week or two weeks, and then they’re just tired, and they just don’t feel like cooking supper, like that alone can be enough to trigger them or to make it hard to keep going. So that’s why some of those things that I recommend are really practical, like get some good easy meals into your freezer ahead of time, because you’re probably going to feel kind of fluey at first, kind of garbage-y. 

 

And also for a lot of us the kitchen is where we drank. I know I came home from work, poured a drink, took my coat off after that, maybe I’ve done that. And then started cooking so cooking and drinking, where, you know, the cooking was the excuse to be in the kitchen drinking, right. And they were always connected. And I just like, that was my drinking headquarters, was my kitchen counter. And that was the time of day where I did a lot of it. So that’s why I think it’s so practical to plan ahead for easy meals. Because for the first little while it is going to be hard. And these little, these little stumbling blocks are the things we need to think about. 

 

Another thing I talk about is just rehearsing some answers of how to say no thank you or of how to order or a drink that’s not alcoholic. Because we have so much muscle memory, you know, when a waiter comes up and says, What will you have? Or maybe they already have a bottle of wine open, depending on the dining scenario you’re in sometimes, you know, if you’re at an event, there will be open wine on the table, and a server will just come around and fill glasses and to practice No, thank you. It’s so hard because we’re so used to it. Sometimes the wine is poured before you even can get the words out to say no. And then people think, well, there it is. I guess I’ll drink it. You know, I guess you’re like, hey, you’re

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  20:34

in the headlights? Right? Like,

 

20:36

yeah, yeah. And so something as simple as that. And if you, if you practice these things ahead of time, if you practice saying, oh, None for me, or, you know what, I’m on the, I’m the driver tonight, I’m not drinking or whatever, just if you practice some sentences, and I actually list some out to practice. If you’ve said it once, it’s easier to say it a second time, if you’ve said it 10 times, it’s really easy to recall it in a situation rather than to create it in a situation. So like you said, the deer in the headlights. That’s because your brain is scrambling to invent something. But if you’ve already invented it and rehearsed it, then you just need to recall it. And that comes a lot faster.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  21:20

I really love the concept of powerless versus empowered. Can you tell me about that?

 

21:26

So the reason I felt this was important to include, and I included it fairly early in the in the book as well, is that also for me when I was contemplating quitting drinking, I looked at the 12 steps, I knew there was a program called AA and I knew it had 12 steps, but I didn’t know what those 12 steps were. So I googled them. And this first step said, We admitted we were powerless over alcohol. And I thought, Well, I’m not powerless. You know, I still felt myself having a little power, because I could still kind of tell that I was making a decision to drink every day, I felt wrongly that I couldn’t go to one of those meetings and get help, because I wasn’t powerless. 

 

And it turned out that’s not exactly how it works. That’s really not what that means. But the question is interesting. So you can harness the concept of powerlessness by saying, You know what, when there’s alcohol around, it runs me, I can’t say no to it, I can’t not have it. And once I do, all bets are off. So you know, I don’t have power over alcohol. That’s that mindset. And if you are, if you’re quitting, using that mindset, you are someone who does really well by handing over the control to an external locus of control. So you could say it’s the rules of the group, or it’s my higher power, or it’s this diet that I’m on whatever, you have some external framework, that gives you the direction not to drink, the Empowered Approach is to say, there’s a part of me that still feels like it has some control. So I’m going to explore that, and nurture it and learn how to exert that power that I’m not currently exerting. 

 

So a program to quit drinking that uses an internal focus of control, or an empowerment model would be smart recovery. And a lot of people haven’t heard of that. So it’s also an abstinence based recovery program. And it does use meetings and group support. But rather than saying, You’re powerless, and you need this framework to hold you up, which is the 12 step model, and it works great for lots of people. The smart model says, you know, we’re gonna identify your triggers, we’re going to build your muscles, we’re going to get you some support, we’re gonna use this framework to help you harness your internal locus of control and build that muscle and take back your power that you’re not fully utilizing right now. 

 

And so what I encourage people to do is just to be aware of those two ways to look at this. Because, again, if you’re looking at a model that doesn’t appeal to you, and you’re like, Nope, that’s not me so I’m gonna keep drinking. Well, that doesn’t help you. What you need to know is if that doesn’t appeal to you, there’s another way, let’s explore that other way and use it because your goal is to quit drinking, not to find excuses not to. And then it’s good to know, too, that if you are on down that path, and it’s really rubbing you the wrong way, or you just can’t get it. Hey, let’s try this other approach. Maybe that’s a better fit for you.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  24:30

Yeah, and the the main thing to keep in mind and that’s kind of why I bring on so many guests with so many different perspectives, is that there is no one way to decide that drinking isn’t working for you to take a break from it to see if you feel better to decide to quit completely for a long term which I personally think is the way easier way to go rather than attempting to keep moderation in your life. But most people don’t start out that way. I mean, this is why your book is Preparing to be Alcohol Free, because they can’t imagine it. And I don’t know anyone who has quit in the long term who has consciously or unconsciously not tried to moderate and stopped and try it again for a very long time. So I think that’s really great that you advise learning about new programs, trying things. And if it doesn’t click with you, or turns you off, know that there are other ways to go. I mean, some people quit with yoga, some people quit with mindfulness, some people quit with the coach, some people quit with the program, some people, you know, all the things, right? It’s not one with a therapist,

 

25:52

one of your

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  25:54

chapters says, observe the daily click, what is that process?

 

26:03

So, again, it’s that it’s that invitation to get to know yourself a little better, which is super uncomfortable for a lot of us. And to just pay attention to what is happening in your day that makes you decide it’s time for a drink. When does that occur? What triggers the switch to drinking, and for some people, that’s an everyday thing. And sometimes it’s multiple times a day. For some people, it’s maybe sporadically. And it’s hard to identify. So what happens when you feel your resolve change? When do you go from having a normal day or from not being interested in alcohol or to being sure you’re going to quit? Whatever the sort of law looks like? When do you feel that click, where you start thinking about alcohol, where you start wanting it, planning it, preparing for it, when does it start to enter into your mind? 

 

So some people may say it’s never gone, it’s always there. And that would be pretty advanced, pretty late stage, I would say, substance use disorder. I’m not an expert. So I don’t want to diagnose anybody. But I mean, if you’re always thinking about if you’re always feeling like you need it, probably there’s quite a heavy level of dependency there. But I think for most people that are wrestling with it in this way, there’s sort of a flip, where you start out feeling one way about it, and all of a sudden, it all goes out the window. And you feel yourself click the whole goal of this, this book, there’s no chapter that says, here’s how to moderate, here’s how to cut back, here’s how to do any of that. All of these things are external to the actual process of quitting. They’re, they’re all the things you set up around yourself. 

 

So just paying attention is such an important part of that. Typically, what you might start to understand is that, gosh, you know what, it’s every day at about 130. That’s what it was for me. I would spend all morning saying, Today’s the day, Today’s the day, I’m gonna quit, Today’s the day. And then by lunchtime, I would be like, Oh, maybe not because it was a really good day, or oh, maybe not. Because I couldn’t find a parking spot. Now I’m in a bad mood, like there was always a reason. And then I would drink that afternoon, then I would spend the afternoon thinking about, well, do I have alcohol at home? Am I going to pick it up on the way home? You know, how am I going to do this today? What’s it going to look like? And then I might still be thinking, No, I’m not going to? Yes, I am. No, I’m not. I might be going back and forth. But I was definitely starting to tip in the direction of drinking. And then, you know, by three, four o’clock, it was just, it was going from an idea to a strong urge/obsession. So when I started to recognize that, you know, what I’m seeing is a pattern. And what that pattern can relate back to is actually withdrawal. I mean, that’s really what is going on, if you are in a pattern of daily alcohol use. 

 

So in my case, I was drinking every afternoon, evening, right up till bedtime, sleeping through the night. And you know, it’s about eight to 12 hours later is when those first little hints of withdrawal start to appear. And we don’t think of it as withdrawal though. You know, for me, I was in my early 40s. At the time, I was thinking menopause, I was thinking I didn’t sleep well, aches and pains, all of these things. But really, it is the fact that your body is starting to want alcohol again. And as the day goes on, that urge gets stronger and stronger and stronger. So when I think of it as in terms of oh my gosh, that daily click was the start of withdrawal. All of a sudden that awareness thing makes me think Well, that would have made it a whole lot easier to quit. If I understood that little click I was feeling every day. Well, it’s really a symptom of withdrawal. Yeah, because withdrawal is a scary word. And it’s hard to ignore that word when you think of it in those terms.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  30:07

Yeah, absolutely. And they’re always physical reasons why you crave alcohol. I mean, you know, the substances working is designed to pull you back into it and to have taking another drink be what restores you to your new, quote unquote, normal?

 

30:27

Yeah, because you’re, you’re trying to just hold off withdrawal, right, your body’s trying to feel okay. And I think that’s another thing that’s kind of a conundrum is like, we tend to think of addiction as being fun, you know, like, or, as people that are using alcohol in an addictive way that they are partying? Well, it’s not fun, it is not fun managing withdrawal symptoms, it is not fun, trying to juggle intake, and stay sober enough to drive and to do all the things you have to do. And, you know, to hide the bottles. And you know, it’s a management problem dealing with all of the side effects and external factors and fallout of drinking all the time. I mean, it’s a pain in the butt. My life is so much simpler.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  31:16

It’s simpler, but just I mean, I used to feel like, I mean, I could feel every blood vessel in my brain throbbing during a hangover, just feeling so queasy. And I mean, that type of sickness is brutal. And is to go through it. I mean, I sort of had a low grade daily hangover, because I drank every night, you know, and I didn’t even recognize it. I mean, I knew I kind of felt like shit. But I didn’t realize how much until I stopped drinking. But I was like, feeling ill every day. But then on the nights that I would go out and like, quote, unquote, party, the next day or that night, I mean, so bad. And I would throw up red wine. Oh my god, there’s nothing worse than, like, being a 37 year old woman kneeling by a toilet throwing up red wine when your kids are in the next room like, way to take it away from being glamorous.

 

32:17

I know, I know, oh, my heart just feels so sad for you when I think of that. And, and what it steals from us, the you know, the time and just the wellness, I mean, just enjoying our life. And I went through my old Facebook statuses, I had this urge the other day of gosh, you know, I’ve been on Facebook since 2007. I bet all those old statuses are there, I really better go clean those up. Because you know, maybe there’s something there that wouldn’t ring quite right these days. I was shocked when I went back to, I quit drinking in 2010, so like those three years before I quit drinking, every status was how bad I felt. I have a cold or I have a headache today. I mean, because we were still learning how to use Facebook back then too, right? So we were posting things like what we ate for breakfast and how we felt, that kind of thing. Anyway, I was just surprised at how often I was sick because now I’m 54 I’m rarely ever sick, rarely ever sick. So I have, you know, the occasional headache, not in the morning when I wake up and not for seven days straight. You know, it’s amazing how we convince ourselves that this sort of low grade, as you say, this low grade hangover is just normal aging or something we think oh, this is how everybody feels awful in the morning. It’s part of getting old. No, it’s not. It’s not. It’s really tough on the body.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  33:41

At this point, sort of like I don’t hate those Facebook memories that pop up because they kind of remind me but they are cringe worthy that of course I always played it off but I mean, every St. Patrick’s Day one pops up where I had posted something that was like #momfail. You know, Hank, you know I forgot to pick out the gold coins off the leprechaun track that my son had put out. He was five and I was like thank God for daycare for saving the day. Well funny right? Nobody’s like oh, I’ve done that no problem haha. The truth is I drank so much the night before I completely forgot that I was supposed to do that. He came into my room, my husband was gone, hysterically in tears as a five year old cuz the leprechaun hadn’t come and I rolled over just with a brutal hangover being like I am the worst mother that ever lived and yet what I post on Facebook and comes up every year is like haha, you know, playing off like I’m just so busy or you know, this mom thing is so hard but I knew. And pictures of me and all my girlfriends in Whistler as well, aka a mom’s night away. It was Mother’s Day weekend, we looked super fancy going out to dinner in Whistler. Well, what happened that night is I drank so much that I don’t remember anything. But apparently I was in tears asking everyone if they probably had a drinking problem. And then I drank again the next night. I didn’t remember that either. 

 

So some of those Facebook memories pop up, and I cringe, but I also am like, oh, you know, I feel like so much compassion for that girl who was like, deep in withdrawal and also trying so hard to overcompensate. I mean, the next day, the degree to which I tried to pretend that there was no issue with my girlfriends when I been in tears the night before and asking them if they thought I had a drinking problem like that is is miserable for what should have been my fabulous weekend away, you know, from my child. So yeah, yeah, it’s a process. I was like, looking at my phone when you were talking because one of my clients texted me yesterday. And she’s like, 100 days sober and feeling amazing, and all the good stuff. But she sent me this screenshot from Facebook that said, Me, Facebook, hey, remember, when you were a full blown alcoholic spiraling out of control? You don’t really have to do this. Facebook? Lol, here’s a memory from 2013. Yeah, thanks. Right.

 

36:31

Yeah, right. And we can harness those memories, if they help us to stay the course and go the direction we want. But we can also release them, you know, if it’s not helpful to keep seeing that, I think we really need to give ourselves permission to say adios to that. And I like this expression release with gratitude. So I actually talked about it in the book, when it comes to let’s have a look at your friends. You know, let’s be a little honest. Look at the people you’re surrounding yourself with right now. And are there some friendships that maybe it’s time to release with gratitude or to understand that when you quit drinking, those friendships that are built on, you know, mutual drunkenness, or supposedly closeness, or, you know, if your friends were telling you, you’re fine, no, you don’t have a drinking problem. If you have a drinking problem, I have a drinking problem. You know, maybe they’re keeping you close, because you’re worse than them. So it makes them look good. Everyone likes a foil, I’ve heard said. So there can be these things that run their course. And sometimes it’s the people we surround ourselves with, or the commitments that we make, things we annually get involved in, maybe you know, putting on a certain party or hosting a certain event or being part of a committee or something. 

 

But sometimes it’s just the memories that we allow to keep coming back to us. And so those reminders from Facebook are a good reminder to that, like if they empower you, or if they help you on your journey, great if they bring back shame. I’m not sure that’s helpful, you know, that we maybe we could release with gratitude and blow a kiss to that girl that we used to be and send her into digital Oblivion as we hit the delete button and let Facebook give us something else to remember on those days.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  38:20

Yeah, and I think it’s okay to edit your life to edit this. While you’re around, you don’t have to get rid of them but you do get to choose what influences and what energy comes into your life. And in Atomic Habits, which I love that book by James Clear, he really talks about both your physical environment that’s really important. And he talks about this with all habits, whether it’s working out or how you eat, or whether you write a book or whatever it is your physical environment, setting that up. So you’re not like rowing a boat upstream, but rather sort of putting a canoe in where you flow with the river, but also your social environment, because you want to join groups and surround yourself with people where the behavior you want to adopt is in alignment and celebrated by the people you surround yourself with. They also have that and so you know, that’s why I love you know, some of these sober groups. I know when we originally met I was a superfan of The Bubble Hour. I honestly nine years ago went walking, listening to The Bubble Hour for hours. It was the first sober podcast I ever discovered and honestly, the only one I knew about for about four years. So hugely inspirational, but then we’re both members of this group called The Booze Free Brigade. I have a guide on my site of how to find it. If you’re interested. It’s my favorite place on the internet. 

 

But it’s you know, in terms of your social environment and people who celebrate the behavior you want to adopt. When you post that you have seven days or 30 days, like they’re giving you a virtual parade. And when you post that you want to drink and are asking for support, they will give you all the reasons, and cheering you on, and I’m here with you tonight, and what show are you watching? That you need that sort of social support to become the person you want to be as opposed to, oh, my God, I really want to drink well, you should drink, you’re an adult, it’s not that bad, you deserve a bottle of wine. Like if your friend’s circle is not supporting the choice you want, they can sort of unconsciously or consciously suddenly sabotage who you want to be.

 

40:46

Yeah, I think that’s true. And the fact is, as we build our lives around alcohol, we curate friendships based on that. So it takes time to correct the course. And when I really thought about friends that I had sort of allowed to wither on the vine, it was people that didn’t drink like I drank, or people that just made me feel bad about how I drank. And they were still people I liked and was interested in, but they didn’t fit my life because my life became more and more and more about supporting constantly having a glass of wine in my hand socially. So it’s really, I think it’s great to kind of look through your friends and think who am I allowed to kind of fade away. And that is a great person to phone and go for a walk with because you do need to rebuild your social life in other ways around things that aren’t drinking. And then also to build those sober connections or sober support, like we were talking about. Those are really important to build. And they’re really quite fun to build. 

 

I mean, I had no idea how that was going to help. I think I was really hiding in my drinking. And so I at first at least, was prepared to hide in my recovery. And the internet just wasn’t having it. I mean, I was blogging on day one on Unpickled, that was going to be my thing. But I was insisting on staying anonymous. But what I didn’t realize was people would read my blog and comment and give me encouragement. And it was like, the most beautiful thing to feel that support, I had no idea. And then a few weeks down the road, or even probably a few days later, I don’t know, didn’t take long before the first person that came along and commented on my blog. I’m on day one, and you’re helping me. And I kind of thought, oh my god, someone else is looking at me like I’m this big, hot mess. And I’m only a few days sober. And that’s enough to help someone else. Well, then I felt like I had people ahead of me pulling me forward. But I also had people behind me kind of pushing me forward because I was inspiring them. 

 

And it was this beautiful kind of, what would you call it like you kind of get swept along in this stream of support, you take your place, you know, and you, yeah, you kind of huddle in, and we take strength from each other. But it also feels really good to know that someone is inspired by you, is inspired by your one measly, crappy, sweaty day of sobriety that you think that you are not doing well on like, someone else is going to look at that and think you are an absolute hero. I mean, we all think that but it doesn’t feel like it when you’re the one who’s struggling through that day. And then when someone says like, oh, my gosh, you’re my inspiration today, it can just give you that little boost. 

 

So finding those online supports are so amazing, and so helpful. And that’s something I really encouraged in this book is for people to explore some of those ways. And I don’t get super specific. I’m glad you mentioned that you have directions on your site as to how to find the BFB and other support groups, I find that there’s so many and they’re always changing. So I wanted this book to be evergreen, and to really be something that you could read it 10 years from now, and it would still be fairly relevant. So I didn’t get specific on that. But really, there’s so many ways to connect and explore in person, online, through groups, through anonymous groups, through non anonymous groups, through social platforms. I mean, it’s just really so great. And I think it’s good to have, you know, start with something that you’re comfortable with, but I think it’s good to build lots of different ways because when I did finally make some in person friends and make some in person connections, holy smokes it just knocked my socks off. I was so excited. I had no idea I’d been missing out on that.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  44:42

Yeah, yeah, that’s amazing. And I think you’re right like we curate our friends to surround ourselves with drinkers. I mean, you know, even your spouse or who you gave and your best friends and people at work right people who went to happy hour they were the people I hung out with if, and when you stop drinking, you need to add at the very least people to your social circle with that is not the focus. And I love finding people who are on the completely alcohol free path to and online is a great place to start. I also started, you know, with the people I worked out with at 530 in the morning, this group of moms, because people who drink don’t usually work out at 530 in the morning, now I did, but the rest of them weren’t quite, you know, the bottle of wine and night the night before. So it really wasn’t the most important thing in their life. They were doing five K’s and you know, all these other stuff. And so they encouraged me, you know, if they’re all like, Hey, we’re all signing up for this 5k, what, you know, do you want to come? I was like, Yeah, you know, that’s the definition of surrounding yourself with people who the person you want to be is what’s, you know, what’s prominent in what they do. And you talk about in your book, finding alcohol free role models, and I want to let you know that you are one of those for me. I mean, oh, loosely and completely when I met you, I was fangirling, you know, even online when we talked on the bubble hour, but how do you suggest finding some of those alcohol free role models? I mean, I know, Instagram, now there’s so many people who are out and proud and celebrating the fact they’re alcohol free without labels?

 

46:37

Yeah. So I think you look for the people that have what you want. And sometimes, sometimes it’s a little, it’s a feeling you get when you’re around them. I think people, that I’ve always been really intrigued by people that felt very comfortable with themselves. Because I never felt comfortable with myself, I thought I always had to be different than I was, you know, I thought I always had to correct myself that I was just in whatever my instincts were, were intrinsically wrong. So I am somehow government, like, I had to fix them. So to speak. For me, even as a little kid, I was always kind of intrigued by people who seemed really at home with themselves and really honest and authentic. And so when I started looking for people to kind of look up to that authenticity was something I knew I really wanted in my life, I was tired of not having it. And to the thought of having that. I mean, really, when I think about recovery, can you see, it’s not just about not drinking, I feel like recovering authenticity, and being really true to myself. Man, that’s, that is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Like really, that has changed my life, to be just to feel authentically me. And to know that I’m okay is really great. 

 

So looking for people that have what you want, and then asking them, if you can connect asking if there’ll be a resource person for you, I have a chapter on sober role models in terms of, you know, celebrities and following people on Instagram. And that’s one tool is kind of having those public figures that you can attach to and kind of follow and feel that there’s someone to look up to follow their work, that kind of thing. And I suggest that with a bit of caution, in a way because they’re human, right? And they may disappoint you and or they may struggle, and then you, depending on where you’re at, you know, is that permission for you to struggle if they struggle? Is your addictive thinking going to use that to leverage against you? You know, this is why I think a lot of recovery groups don’t have a spokesperson. That’s why they encourage anonymity relative to the group. In something like Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, it’s not because recovery needs to be a big secret. It’s because it’s too much to put on any one person to be the poster child for not drinking, or recovering in general. 

 

Right. 

 

So there’s, there’s a bit of caution with that. So I sort of think that is one tool that I really encourage looking for people in your day to day life that you like, you know, is Aunt Mary really cool. Like don’t we all have one really cool and that we want to be like, it might not necessarily be that it’s someone who doesn’t drink, it could be someone who’s really good at setting boundaries, could be someone who’s really good at making other people comfortable, right? So we kind of identify those things that we want and pay attention to how other people get them. And if we’re really bold, ask them for help in getting them. 

 

And then I also talk about building an inner Advocacy Committee, which I think is kind of a fun chapter, which is where we the previous chapter, we kind of identify our inner critic voices and release them or give them a night off and it’s but we also focus on building an inner advocacy committee and we start to take these people, these, these role models that we have are these people who, from our past who have been really empowering to us, and we kind of tuck them away in our, in our mind as someone to check in with. So, you know, it’s when you’re having a moment, and you’re not sure what to do, maybe you can check in with your inner advocacy committee and, and think like, Okay, what, what Aunt Mary, do you know? And what would my little league baseball coach have to say about that? And you can picture them encouraging you and giving you a high five for doing the right thing for leaving early from that party or for standing your ground or setting a boundary with your mother in law or something, you know? 

 

Yeah, I was,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  50:46

I was laughing when you were saying that because back in the day, when I was first stopping drinking, for some reason, there was this, you know, you get all those inside jokes and things like that. And there was this joke in the BFB. Like, what would the BFB do? Like that was, you know, the joke like when you’re going out, and one of the women there got those really inexpensive sort of rubber bracelets? And she would send them to people if she was like, does anyone want these? And so I got one in the mail from her and it said, WWBFBD, and I wouldn’t draw that. So yeah, just cracked me up. 

 

And I also think that it’s important that I love that question. Do you want what they have? Because even to ask about people who you’re feeling pressure from, and you’re having a hard time saying no to because I, you know, when I, as a people pleaser, and I consider myself a recovering people pleaser getting better every day. There, my boss for a long time in corporate would, I would feel like I was constantly not measuring up to her and or what she wanted from me. And I was like, a straight A, like my pat on the head, want to please some girl. And after I had stopped drinking, I got a lot better at saying do I want what she has? And she was single, no kids, climbing the corporate ladder, incredibly set on managing up, traveling all the time, you know, didn’t even have a dog because she, you know, needed to focus on her career. And, you know, at the same time, I was like, do I want what she has, because what she’s asking me to do will lead me down the path of having her same life. And I was like, No, I actually want to be with my kids at the bus stop. I want to have a strong marriage, which, for me, our marriage didn’t work if I was on the road a lot. Like we were just pretty even in our support. I was a homebody, I quit drinking and loved my morning workout. So being in a hotel 25% of the time giving big presentations in New York and doing business dinners that did not work for me not drinking, it was just, you know, I loved cuddling up with my kids and my kids and going to bed early. 

 

And so I was like, if I don’t want what she has, I by definition, had to disappoint her, or else that I was going to lead a life that I actually didn’t enjoy. And that actually helped me say no, and be like, actually, I can’t go on this business trip, or I actually don’t want to be promoted and move to New York, even though she’s like, What the hell are you doing? And at the same time, now, I meet people who I think are really cool. And I’m really open about that. I’m like, Oh, my God, I love you. Can we be friends? And you will be shocked at how many people are like, yes, because it’s really hard to make friends as an adult. But I’ve gotten so comfortable with it. I’m like, if you like someone tell them, you know?

 

54:07

Yeah, that’s true. And I think those honest conversations are so helpful, because it helps us think about what we want, vocalize what we want, so we’re not swept along with it. Now, you may very well have been able to have a conversation with your colleague that said, I respect that you have the life you want. The life I’m trying to build, you know, has more work life balance in it. So this is what I’m going for. And if you can present that with a lot of certainty. I think there’s, even if people disagree with you and say like, oh, man, you’re crazy, I wouldn’t want that life. They can at least respect and understand why you’re doing it that way. Yeah, but we don’t know these things unless we decide them and tell them to ourselves and be really intentional about them. And I think that’s true. Whatever we’re doing like you say, you know, might be regarding alcohol, might be regarding work. For me, I had to make a lot of decisions around some of the creative things I do. So I used to do. I have two albums of music from a while back if that’s Gosh, 15 years ago now, when I used to do singer songwriter performances, and I would, I just didn’t know how not to do it because I was writing music and, and writing songs. And then what the heck do you do with them, you have to go and perform them, or else, no one hears them. And so I really did that, even though I didn’t like that part of it. And it took a lot from me, it was really hard. In the end, I had to quit doing that. Because all of the angst and the difficulty I went through just to get up on stage to do the part of it that I like, wasn’t worth that. So we have to make some hard decisions sometimes about the life that we want.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  55:53

Yeah. And so one of the things you have in here is about creating evening rituals, which are so important and help so much when we’re used to coming home or the clock hitting four or 5pm. And you drink, that’s your entertainment, that’s your activity. So can you give some suggestions on evening, evening rituals that are helpful?

 

56:18

Sure. So I do you know, I do take the tack with this book, the expectation is the person reading it maybe hasn’t quit drinking yet, or is maybe in the early stages of quitting drinking, or maybe in the continually quitting starting quitting starting thing. So what I don’t want people to do is to create new rituals and incorporate alcohol into them and then get locked in on using alcohol during these rituals. So the idea is to start to build little bits of your day that don’t include drinking, that are delightful on their own. And so if you’re going to make, for example, having a nice bath before you go to bed part of your ritual. Do that without alcohol, don’t include it in that, let that be its own freestanding thing. And that way, when you do quit drinking, you will have this thing that you do that you enjoy, that doesn’t include alcohol, that you know you can do, and that you are building your muscle again, to learn how to enjoy things. 

 

So what happens the more we drink habitually, the more we learn to turn to alcohol, every time we feel discomfort, right, it becomes our tool for everything. Sometimes we get to it, where we’re having it every time we feel an emotion, good, bad, anything, we apply alcohol to it. So you have to reteach yourself how to feel comfort without alcohol. And that means trying lots of different things. So yeah, I really like the idea of just doing things that are physically comforting. So lotion, stretching, fresh air, a walk. I really enjoyed getting in my car in the evenings and going for a drive after I quit drinking, because it was so novel to be sober at eight o’clock at night. So starting to think of things you can do. 

 

And if you also, you can set up little comfort zones for yourself around the house. I love this idea of like setting up a nice little chair with a book and a blanket. And it’s like a beautiful little inviting spot. And you can say to yourself, that’s a no drinking zone, you know, I cannot if I’m going to sit in that chair, and read a chapter of you know, Chicken Soup for the mother’s soul or whatever. That’s a no drinking zone. And that way, when you do quit drinking, you’ve got all of these places in your house that you’re used to doing things that don’t include alcohol, because otherwise, what you find is you’ve built your whole life and your whole physical surrounding includes alcohol in every way. And then when you take the alcohol out of it, you miss it everywhere you look because it was, I used to sit here and watch TV and drink wine. I used to sit in bed and read a book and drink wine. I used to have wine in the tub, you know, there was wine everywhere. So you have to start creating some things that don’t include it. 

 

I also love the idea of writing a gratitude list every night before bed. Journaling is good, but I feel like journaling is so overused. It just becomes like white noise whenever people say it. So be really specific about it. Personally, I have numerous different journals. So one is the journal that every time I write something in it, I rip that page out and I throw it away. You write really differently when you know that there’s no chance anyone’s ever going to read it. So there’s that kind of a journal. There’s a gratitude journal. There’s a what happened today journal, you know, so just some of these lovely little things that you can build into your day that start to give yourself some time looking inward. Doing an activity that passes your time and making yourself familiar with different comforts. 

 

Yeah,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  59:55

I love that and I know you have given us so many amazing easy tips on this podcast already, which I absolutely love. And I think you’re gonna help so many people, but we have just scratched the surface of all the good stuff in Jean’s book. So if you love Jean like I do, or you’re contemplating quitting drinking, or you want to prepare for it, and I love that you talk about preparing for it, because it is a process and the more accessible you make it. So it is not this huge leap off a cliff, the easier it’s going to be, definitely get this book. So it is by Jean McCarthy, The Unpickled, Prepare to be Alcohol Free book and Jean, where can people find that?

 

1:00:49

It’s available worldwide via Amazon, that’s the easiest way to find it. So whatever country you’re in, go to Amazon, look it up, you can get it as an ebook, or as a print book. And you can also go to my website, JeanMcCarthy.ca. And you’ll see all my books are there as well. 

 

Perfect,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:01:06

and tell people what your other books are, because they’re really helpful as well.

 

1:01:11

So this Unpickled book, I’m writing a whole series of books in the Unpickled series. So my very first book was an Unpickled Holiday Survival Guide. So that is a book that specifically talks about tips and strategies for staying alcohol free during the holiday season. So around the you know, the trifecta of Thanksgiving through to New Year’s, there’s just so many things that happened during that time. And they’re really centered around alcohol, and family, which can be triggering, right. So whenever, whatever time of year you quit, eventually you’re going to have to hit your first holiday season and it can be really, really hard. So that first Unpickled book, Holiday Survival Guide guides you through that.

 

Prepare to be Alcohol Free is the one that’s out right now. And I also have a book of poetry called The Ember Ever There. And that’s a collection of poems about recovery. And it’s about the process of change. So some of the poems are about how it felt to be stuck in addiction. Some are about how it felt to kind of awaken and start to harness my healing of myself. And some are about all the joys of life after alcohol and life in a recovery community. And in that book, I did something interesting too. So I’m not a 12 stepper. But I always when I would interview people on the podcast that are in AA, they had so much love and affection for the steps. And I came to have an appreciation for how the steps make sense. So I wrote a series of poems, there’s one for each of those steps. And they’re sort of the purpose of the step retold through a poem. So that those of us that don’t recover through a 12 step process can have a little bit of an understanding of what each of those steps are meant to do, and how they could be meaningful for each of us in our journey outside of that program. And hopefully, people that do use a 12 step program would respond to the love and affection that I tried to reflect that they taught me that they have for each of those steps.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:03:14

Yeah, and I know you’ve interviewed so many women and people there on The Bubble Hour podcast. And you know, if you haven’t listened to some of those episodes, please go back and do. I’m going to, in the show notes, link to a couple of different things. One, I’ve been lucky enough to interview Jean, about The Holiday Survival Guide book, when we were leading up to the holiday season, that was a great conversation, as well as about your beautiful book of poetry. So I’ll put both of those interviews in the show notes. And I actually, my very, very first interview where I told my story about my drinking, and everything that went along with it, how it feels after I quit, and my coaching was on The Bubble Hour with Jean. So I will link to that interview as well.

 

1:04:11

Oh, that’s so great. That’s so great. Thank you for sharing all of those links. And I do want to let people know if they’re listening to this in the future. There’s a third book in the Unpickled series that’ll be coming out later in 2022. And that is on Unpickled Recovery DIY. So it’s about that kind of patchwork mosaic, smorgasbord approach to recovery. And yeah, I’m really happy to share this with your listeners. And I’m really, I love that you were telling your story on my podcast, and I think people would have so much fun if they haven’t heard it to go back and listen to us with you on the other side of the mic being interviewed by me. 

 

And yeah, it’s

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:04:54

a bunch of years ago. I think it was three years ago now. So I was about three years out at the time.

 

1:05:01

That’s so cool. I love it. And I love how you know, we, we build these friendships in this community. And it’s sort of like, we link arms and we go through life together. And the thing I think is so cool is that we understand with the people we meet in these sort of support groups is that we’re all in process. So you know, we get to see people meet challenges and overcome them. And we get to see the change that people have over time. And I just think that’s so cool. And how the give and take of this community is just so lovely. And I’m so grateful. I’m grateful to be part of it, and honored to take my place among people that are holding the mic and holding space for each other and telling our stories and listening to stories and just just supporting one another as part of this whole process. It’s so, so beautiful.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:05:55

Yeah, you said that perfectly. So I’ll just leave it there. Thank you so much, Jean. 

 

Thanks, Casey.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:05:55