SUMMARY KEYWORDS

drinking, people, sober, alcohol, life, wine, sobriety, husband, listening, happy, situation, daily, yoga, two years alcohol-free

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Sue Winters

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a buzz, how to sit with your emotions when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

 

In the years since I’ve started my podcast, I’ve only had one client, Christy, when she hit one year sober to talk about her journey, her life and how she stopped drinking. And I got so much positive feedback from listeners saying the episode touched them and helped them in many cases, even more than experts and authors and coaches I’ve interviewed on the show. 

 

So I’m bringing on today another client of mine, Sue Winters, who just hit two years alcohol-free. And what’s cool about our relationship is that Sue and I started working together one on one and coaching from the very beginning. Her last day one was October 3rd two years ago, we had our discovery call on October 5th when she was on day three, and our kickoff session was on October 12th on her day 10. So we’ve worked together through her entire journey from the difficult first parts to where she was feeling really, really good and everything in between. 

 

So today, Sue and I are going to talk about all the things – not only about her drinking and not drinking, but also about the process she went through in the time when she was debating whether she had an issue and trying to live in that drinking cycle through changing her mindset about what alcohol was bringing to her life, early sobriety and what her life looks like now, two years later. 

 

So I’ll tell you a little bit about Sue, but I’ll let her tell you lots more. She lives just north of Seattle, we live in the same city, but kind of on opposite sides of the city. She grew up in rural Texas and moved to Seattle in 1990. She’s the mom of three, ranging in age from 30 to a newly turned 18 year-old. And she’s just a new grandma to a beautiful one year old baby. So Sue can tell you lots more, but I love her. I know you’re gonna love her too. So Sue, thank you for coming on.

 

03:32

Well, thank you so much, Casey for having me. I can’t believe we’re doing this. But I’m really excited to share my journey and how much my life has improved over the last two years.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  03:43

Yeah, and I know that one of the reasons we chatted about this is that after you got through the sort of tenuous, difficult early part, you’ve been really open and incredibly positive about living life alcohol free in your social channels. And I’ve just loved that because I’ve watched all the positive feedback you’ve gotten from friends and family and everyone else saying that you’ve inspired them.

 

04:10

Yeah, yeah, you know, I am so proud of being sober. And also, you know, kind of I want to be open and, and to share my journey and my experience because really, there’s been no downside at all to not drinking. And I think like a lot of people when you start on this journey, maybe you are a little shy or reticent to share that you’ve decided to quit drinking because of maybe what you fear other people might perceive of you making that decision. But I think over time, what you find out is people have no opinion one way or the other, you know, and then if you can be open and share that you’re not drinking and you know share the positive way your life has changed. You might be an inspiration for someone else. 

 

Yeah. 

 

And that’s exactly what happened, I think, to me and really what led me to meet you, and to really kind of say, Yeah, you know, I really do want to be sober. And I’m sure she wouldn’t mind me mentioning her, and I know she’s been on your podcast, but you know, the person who really paved this path for me was Libby. And I found you through her, you know, because she was so open about her sobriety on Facebook and Instagram. And, you know, I just remember meeting her, probably six years ago, we had gone out on a, like, a girl’s happy hour, and she was the only one that ordered a mocktail. And I was just so in awe of that, how do you go out in a social situation and not drink and order a mocktail and then, you know, we develop the friendship primarily based around our kids. She’s got two boys that are the same age as my, my youngest, my son, and, you know, I would invite her over for parties or do other social functions with her and she was sober. And that really inspired me, you know, because I really didn’t have a lot of examples of that in my life.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  06:10

Well I think that it’s so important to see other people and other people talking about life without alcohol, whether it’s in person or just listening to a podcast like this one, because Libby Nelson, she was on my podcast, she did a fantastic episode around Brene Brown, and she’s a life coach and works with women in midlife in that sort of transitional period. And she’s a Brene Brown train coach. And when I met Libby, it was on the day that I hit one year alcohol free, she happened to be at a yoga event for sober women that I went to, and she is so warm and so open. She was a couple years ahead of me, maybe she was at three years? And I was like, Oh my God, I want to be like you when I grow up. You know, and, and just seeing someone like that is so helpful in thinking, Okay, this is going to be okay.

 

07:09

She had posted, I think you were just putting out maybe your sober guide, and she had shared that on Facebook. And I just noticed it, I think was about maybe a week before I decided to stop drinking. I noticed it and I think I liked it. And then on October 3, I woke up in the morning with a hangover. And you know, for the millionth time going, why do I do this? You know, I feel horrible. I feel like shit, I’m going, I need help. And so I remembered that post that Libby had put out there and that I’d liked and I went through it. And I searched and I found your information. And I can’t remember if I emailed you, or sent you a message on Facebook, but I connected with you that morning. 

 

Because I like everyone, you know, I listened to so much of your podcast, especially the first year almost daily. And my story was so much like everyone else’s, you know, that pride, all the things, like I knew my drinking was unhealthy for me, and I was drinking too much, you know, four or five, six nights a week, almost a bottle of wine. And I had tried to stop myself, you know, and I could maybe not drink for a few days and then I would find some reason to get home and have a glass of wine that then turned into two or three or four glasses. And then I think, I also, I think you know, there’s a year before I actually had quit drinking for, I don’t know, 30 or 40 days. And then we got into the holidays and I’d had foot surgery and so slowly, I just started drinking again. And you know, it went like everyone, it just escalated from Oh, I can not drink that much, to very quickly getting back to drinking and almost nightly. 

 

And so on that October 3, when I woke up, I was just done. You know, I was I think I was 54, if I’m doing the math, right, I’m 56 now almost 57 and I just felt terrible. You know, I was, I physically did not feel good, good in my body. I had aches and pains. You know, I was tired all the time and I think I could just, I would lay in bed and I could think, What am I going to be like in five or 10 years?’ This is not going to get any better. And I just woke up and I’m like, you know, I’m done. I don’t think I can do this on my own. I need a support system around me. And so I just reached out to you. And I think we had that first call. And I was just like by the end of the call like sign me up.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  09:55

You were like, I’m in, when can we start?

 

09:58

Yes, I was, right? Awesome. And, and that was just really committed, you know, I committed in that moment to doing this. 

 

Yeah. 

 

And I think like a lot of people, as you kind of get on that journey, that commitment can kind of waver because you have so much self doubt. And you have, you can’t really envision what your life’s gonna look like when you do quit drinking. Yeah, you just cannot get and for me, I just had to put my faith in you. And I just listened to all of your advice, you know, followed your program, and worked on myself, you know, through to a point where I started believing it and feeling it and living a better and different, healthier and happier life.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  10:45

Yeah. I mean, I remember, of course, the beginning part is really hard. And then the moments that are difficult, or kind of typical, and yet surprising, right, I remember the first time you went out boating, because you were boating with friends and family, not drinking was hard. And then there was like, a holiday party. I remember we talked too and I was on with my family right before Christmas, during COVID. And that was another one.

 

11:19

Yeah, you know, we are big boaters in the Pacific Northwest. And there is a saying that boaters are drinkers. And there’s a reason why that’s the same because it’s true, you know, when you boat is very much a drinking event. And so I was super nervous, you know, going out for the first time boating. And you and I had the powwow before that, you know, have a several conversations about what do I do in these situations, and you gave me permission that I can bow out, you know, like, if in the evening, when people are sitting around and drinking and starting to get drunk, I can just, you know, graciously say, hey, you know, I’m tired. I’m just gonna go down and, and go and read and go to bed. And that was very empowering for me. And I will also say that I think that that whole process is really part of regaining some of your own power, and feeling empowered to set boundaries.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  12:28

Yeah. And in yourself just sort of being like, This is who I am. And it’s uncomfortable and scary. Do that and then suddenly, you come out the other side, and you’re like, Wow, I feel really solid.

 

12:45

Yeah, and like for that whole boating experience, so everybody wakes up the next morning, and they’re hungover and can barely eat their breakfast, and I’m up and in these beautiful locations and hiking and taking my dogs out for a walk and just feeling refreshed and happy in the morning and enjoying that beautiful setting that you happen to be find yourself in when you’re are out boating here. 

 

And then you mentioned the holiday party. There was actually another event that we did around the holidays, where we took the boat with the kids over to Bainbridge Island, and we all went out to dinner. And it was a small family dinner. And everyone was having cocktails. And when it came my turn to order, you know, to order a drink, I’m ordering the non alcoholic drink. And that was an awkward, it was awkward. I just felt uncomfortable there, you know, because I wasn’t doing what I would normally do. Just ,and so I had to give myself a lot of grace in that situation. And understand and I think you did a really good job of prepping me for these things. 

 

Like when you do something for the first time it feels awkward and uncomfortable. Yeah, and but you know, fast forward, not even two years. I mean, pretty quickly into my sobriety, I could easily go out and everyone can order drinks and drink around me and I’m very happy to order a mocktail or, or a soda or, you know, it’s like, I don’t, I don’t feel that same angst anymore about going out and being around other people drinking and me not drinking. Yeah, you know, I’m completely comfortable with that.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  14:28

And I know you did lots of big trips and exciting things in early sobriety and after. I think your son in law’s a professional football player, is that right?

 

14:39

Yes, he’s a football player. And we’ve gone to football games and we’ve done lots of things where normally people drink you know, the thing that I’m really proud of, I love going to Vegas. And I just was like, you know, kind of want to go to Vegas. Can I go to Vegas and not drink? Well, I’ve been to Vegas three or four times now in the last two years and I’ve had way more fun in Vegas not drinking.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  15:04

I know. Mexico multiple times and Europe not drinking. And it’s amazing. So anyone worried about sober travel? Yes, you can imagine it, and it’s going to be awesome, promise. So before we go too far forward, I wanted to go back because I know you had a big career, you had a family, you had a big life before you stopped drinking. And I was worried about my drinking for a full decade before I ended up starting, you know, my last day one and life without alcohol. What was it like for you? Were you kind of worried about your drinking for a while or just enjoying a kind of party lifestyle?

 

15:47

Now, you know, and I think, from when I first started drinking, I knew that drinking was a problem for me. And not that I didn’t enjoy it. I did, you know, I had a lot of fun, you know, like, as a college student going out and drinking, and I really think that I was pretty shy socially. And so in college, I did not drink in high school at all. When I went to college, I was pretty shy. And I found that when I would drink, it would kind of make that shyness go away. And I was much more social and outgoing and, and had a lot of fun in it. But I did not drink every day. I was your classic binge drinker. And I think I continued to be a binge drinker, through, you know, most of my 30s but I always, you know, in the back of my mind, I always knew it was a problem, you know, and always worried about getting DUIs, or which I feel horrible about that I would drink and drive. But I did, honestly. But I’m hardly the kind of person. If I just had one drink, I probably shouldn’t drive. You know, I can always feel that. That being tipsy.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  17:01

I know, I used to like, be like, Am I okay, after two drinks to drive? Am I okay, after three drinks? You know, sometimes I would have been, I’m, I know there were some times I shouldn’t have driven and I doubt anyone listening to this hasn’t done that calculation in their head and been like, on the flip side, like, yeah, I shouldn’t have done that.

 

17:23

Yeah, yeah, I think that’s a pretty common experience. And, but I think when I got, you know, into my 40s, was when I really started becoming more of a daily drinker, that was then kind of sprinkled with some binge drinking. I did have a really wonderful career in banking that I’m really proud of. But, you know, I would drink in the evenings, under the excuse of I had such a stressful day, my career is so stressful, you know, and then I have to take care of this family. And you know, and that’s so hard. And I would say that probably most people probably didn’t look at me and think, Oh, my God, you have a drinking problem. 

 

But I think the people closest to me probably saw it, but never really vocalized it, you know. My husband would occasionally once we would be out, he has, you know, really, you need to stop it. Two glasses of wine. You know, that, you know, if you drink more than that, you’re, you know, when I was living that, you know, in that moment, I could recognize it for myself. But I think, you know, if I would drink over two glasses of wine, I would probably get a little slurry and say things I typically wouldn’t say and act in a manner that really probably is not true to who I am. So I would say you don’t know. I think I knew all along that drinking probably was not serving me very well. I just didn’t probably think enough of it or didn’t think I could do it. I just could not put myself in a position where I could quit drinking. 

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  18:58

Yeah, I think on some level, imagine you’re like, Okay, I drink a lot. This is probably problematic for me, I should cut back but you can’t, you know. That whole forever thing, I’m gonna stop. It’s like, way too big. I mean, I think that one of the things I said to you when we got started was even if you think you should never drink again, like, put that out of your mind right now. Let’s do 100 days because it’s too big.

 

19:27

It does, yeah. And that really helped me a lot. I just, you know, because I would say that most of the people, the adults in my life, do drink. Yeah, you know, my friend’s family. I just could not imagine like, what would it look like if everyone’s drinking but I’m not? And that, I think that really helped me a lot. Working with you is not feeling like I had to commit to forever. You know, let’s just get the 100 days. And here that goes back to that whole first year is just having the focus be on just not drinking today. Yeah, you know, you’re not putting too much pressure on myself to, like, do all the other things.

Casey McGuire Davidson 

Hi there. If you’re listening to this episode, and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, the sobriety starter kit.

 

The sobriety starter kit is an online self study sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step by step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one on one coaching. And the sobriety starter kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it. And when it fits into your schedule. You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time.

This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step by step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking, from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better. You’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach, you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course 

20:07

Yeah, to do all the other things, you know, like, I know, previously when I say okay, I’m gonna get healthy, and I’m going to stop drinking, and I’m going to work out every day, and I’m going to go vegetarian, you know, just all these unrealistic goals, and then you all of a sudden, you know, like, one day, you don’t work out, and then you eat meat. And then oh, yeah, well, I did those two things. So now I’m just going to start drinking again, you know, and so all of my attempts, you know, all of the years leading up until two years ago, were very short lived, you know, I was not that committed. And maybe part of it was too, I just could not see the real value in it. And I was maybe, I was living in denial about the harm that it was doing me and the harm that it was doing my family, you know, because I really wasn’t as present as I could have been.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  20:59

Yeah, well, I think part of it too, is you look at it from sort of like a harm reduction standpoint, that’s why you’re gonna stop drinking, even and then you feel like you’re missing out on everything. And I think one of the big shifts is, you don’t know how good life is going to get when you remove alcohol, like how much happier and more content you’re going to feel, just because you’re no longer putting this stress, you know, this substance that causes anxiety and depression, and you know, makes you less happy and depressing in your body. And so you need to kind of even that out for a while, instead of being like, okay, 20 years from now, this is going to cause cancer and be ugly, to like, wow, two months from now, I’ll probably feel really good and be much happier.

 

21:53

Yeah. And then you get two months down the road, and you do feel happier and healthier. And, and that starts to carry so much weight. 

 

Yeah. 

 

And I think that’s one thing that also helped me was, you know, maybe you, Casey, as a coach can kind of lay out what that path might look like. And that’s one source of information. But the other thing I think that you helped me with was just helping me really immerse myself in, in this sobriety path. And so just listening to Quit Lit like everyday in the car, I would listen to either your podcast or some Quit Lit book, and just hearing other people’s journey where they started just where I did. And then they shared their story from drinking, to trying to quit and failing to finally get into the point that I did on October 3, where I was just done. And then out two or three years and what their lives were looking like. And that was a real inspiration for me. You know, one of my favorite books

 

I was going to ask you.

 

I made a list of like a lot of the books I listened to, I did not read anything, and I just spent my time in the car listening to books on audible, that my favorite one was Sunshine Warm Sober. And I would get these books from listening to your podcasts because you would have these people as guests, or I would you know, somebody would refer to one in one of the Facebook groups. But Sunshine Warm Sober really spoke to me. 

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  23:28

That’s by Catherine Gray. She wrote The Unexpected Joy of Being Sober as well.

 

23:34

Yeah, and I listened to that one too. And I really enjoyed that one as well because I think her approach or attitude about not drinking I think really kind of meshed with kind of the direction I felt myself going in. And I think a couple of things that have really helped me really embrace and kind of love this summer life is not seeing it as a subtraction game. You’re like, I’m not denying myself something. I really feel like I’m giving myself something, you know. I’m not giving up drinking, I’m giving myself sobriety and I really see it as like a warm positive thing like you know not saying I’m stone cold sober because that sounds so hard and yeah and inviting but to be sunshine warm. You know that just yeah, like you’re wrapping yourself in something warm and nurturing and yeah, so that’s like one of my, was one of my favorite books that I listened to. 

 

But I listened to a lot, you know. I listened to some really dark stories that like scared me. I mean, like, Oh, God, I’m so glad I didn’t quite get to that point. Yeah. So happy I’m not drinking now because I think any of us if we stay on that path, they can get to a very, very low dark place and some people that happens earlier in their lives and I was able to get to 55 and not lose a job, not lose a major relationship or lose a house because of my drinking. But that doesn’t mean that had I stayed on that path, I would not have found myself there at some point.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  25:09

Yeah. And I think that the contrast is helpful. And I always tell people, like, if something is turning you off, because it happens, or you’re like, This isn’t me, therefore, I shouldn’t take a break from drinking, because some of the dark ones can do that too. And even some of the groups when people are really struggling, if you’re not at that point, you can be like, Yeah, I’m not like, quote, unquote, these people. It’s okay to turn something off. Like, if it helps you, that’s amazing. And if it is something that’s not helpful to you, there is so much out there that will appeal to you. Like I always recommend different books, you know, just based on like, what people’s tastes are, what they’ve enjoyed before. Is it the science approach? Is it the memoir approach? Do they have kids? Do they not have kids? Do they like the stories about after you quit drinking? Or do you like to resonate with people while they’re in this cycle? Because you can find all of that.

 

26:17

Right. Yeah, it’s all out there. And I know, like, in my early sobriety, I was always like, searching, like blogs and things like that for people like, like a daily accounting of what happened, like what happened on day one, what happened on day 10? What did you do? I, you know, because I want to, I have this personality, like I need to know. So I wanted to know what to expect, you know, but it was always so interesting also to find those accountings that people were sharing their step by step daily experience on their sobriety path. 

 

Yeah. 

 

And how just similar, I mean, everyone’s story is a little different, like the details are a little different. But the big blocks of those stories are always so similar. Yeah, you know, and so I was really able to relate to so many of those stories, and I think it just made me feel supported. Like, I’m not alone. I’m not crazy. 

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  27:18

Yeah. You know, I was curious. So, I know, you went through a lot with your daughter, that she was, you know, in addiction and you were drinking but in the ‘socially acceptable, nothing to see here’ way as a way of dealing with that stress and worry. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

 

27:41

Yeah, yeah. So I think one thing that maybe led to my more daily drinking was, like, about 10 years ago, I was going through a really stressful period in my life. I was dealing with a, you know, a really difficult ex husband. And our younger daughter was struggling with a prescription addiction, she was addicted to Adderall. And you said, you know that I dealt with it in a very socially accepted way of drinking. That’s just what people saw, you know, they didn’t look socially acceptable. But I was probably drinking a lot more and hiding drinking that people didn’t see. 

 

My daughter was a senior in high school when she kind of started abusing Adderall. And she ended up going down to California to go to school. And very quickly, her addiction spiraled out of control, and she ended up almost being homeless. And, you know, the scary thing is, is when a kid turns 18, as a parent, there is very little control you can exact over that situation. You can’t just go and pull them out of what they’re doing and get them into rehab. They’re adults, and it was just a very hard, or the darkest time in my life, really. And so I drank a lot to kind of tamp down my fear, you know, and not..

 

Yeah, alcohol is a numbing agent. 

 

And so I would drink most evenings because I was scared shitless of losing my daughter, and just afraid of that next phone call. You know, we were really, really fortunate because, you know, things have a way of working out. And somehow I was able to get her to come back to Seattle, and was able to get her to agree to go to rehab, and at this time, she was almost homeless and on the street. And I was, you know, she had come to me and my husband and said, Hey, I don’t have any place to live, can I come and live with you? And I told her well let’s, let me talk to Brandon and see how this might look. Because, you know, she was that typical addict where she would lie, steal anything to get what she wanted or what she thought she needed. And so Brandon and I made the deal with her that she could come and stay with us but she had to agree to go to rehab that following Monday. And at first she said no, and walked away. And I just broke down in tears and thought, I’m never going to see her again and she’s going to be homeless, you know, is a super scary situation. Miraculously, she called me at eight o’clock that night and said, Okay, I agree. And so I went and picked up all of our stuff, which was basically in the alley, outside of a frat house at UW. 

 

Wow. 

 

And yeah, it was, you know, I mean, an unbelievable experience. And so that we can she was at home with us, because we could not get her into the rehab facility until Monday, they weren’t going to have a room available for her. And that weekend, I was drinking Chardonnay, like hiding it while I’m telling her she needed to be sober. And, and she and I have talked about this now. I don’t think she, she and I are super close now. She’s been sober for, I don’t know, eight or nine years now.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  31:26

I follow her on Instagram. And she’s an incredible artist, like truly just gorgeous stuff.

 

31:32

Yeah, she’s so talented. Yeah. So proud of her. She graduated this spring from UW on the Dean’s list with a degree in Japanese and in Fine Art. So she’s a walking miracle, you know.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  31:52

Did you have the cognitive dissidence, as you were drinking Chardonnay and hiding it? Or were you like, Oh, I’m just being thoughtful so she isn’t tempted? You know? 

 

32:04

No, no. Well, I mean, I would love to say that I was being thoughtful, but I was being dysfunctional. And I knew it. At the time, I knew it. I just, you know, it was my coping mechanism for so long. And things that scare me, I think are things that would really drive me to want to drink more. And I was just so scared during that time. And I knew it was dysfunctional. But I think in my mind, I knew it was dysfunctional, but I thought I can put on a good front to this. And so people around me will just think that it’s just normal Sue stressed out. Yeah, she’s drinking wine.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  32:48

Yeah, you know, and I know you’ve gone through hard times after you’ve quit drinking. And can you like reflect on how much more difficult you were making it for yourself? Just having that self loathing and the physical hangovers and all that.

 

33:04

Oh, my gosh, it’s so worse. I could have so much dealt better with what she was going through, had I not been drinking. Because there have been, you know, that this is life. And I think a lot of people are fearful that if I quit drinking, what am I going to do when these horrible things happen? Well, A, you’re going to be able to process it. And you know, and, and figure out solutions, and you’re going to be healthier and stronger, both mentally and physically to cope with it. And you’re, you know, like before, I would never ask for help. I went through so much of that with Zoey. And I didn’t go through it alone. The whole, you know, when you have someone in addiction, it’s the whole family, it affects everyone. But I isolated myself and didn’t share with anyone how it was making me feel inside. And so my only support was that bottle of wine. And, you know, that’s no support at all. And it just made dealing with all of that so much more difficult. 

 

I mean, obviously, a lot of things have happened over the last two years, you know, because life is up and down. And I’ve had some really big things that have happened that previously I would have drank over and probably would not have fully dealt with. And then part of it would have just, you would have just moved on past it without really addressing what had happened. So then you have these residual things from that event, that just the next time something comes up, then it’s all that much worse. And that’s how problems were dealt with when I was drinking. 

 

But you know, the last two years, and I’ve called, I reached out to you. I had a really big thing that happened to me on one of my trips to Vegas. You know, I’m not gonna name who this was or what the exact situation was, but I had gone to Vegas with them in a small group, a family group, and it had come to life that someone had lied to me. And it was a pretty big betrayal. And I was devastated and concerned that it could mean a lot more than, than just that one lie. And historically, I would have drank, I would not have addressed it, you know, I would have probably been very, maybe a little passive aggressive about it. But you know, I called you because I was really, and I was probably eight months sober by then, nine months sober, something like that. And I called you, and you just kind of reminded me of some of the things that I had learned along the way, you know, what my toolbox looks like, and things that I could do. And I handled that situation completely differently than I had handled anything previous, like when I was drinking. 

 

Yeah, you know, I actually talked to the person, you know, and had a very honest conversation with them, you know, I reached out to my husband and said, Hey, this is what’s happened, and this is how I feel about it and what are your thoughts? You know, I included him in that I asked for help. And I got help, you know, and we were able to move past that, you know, she was able to tell me she was sorry, and kind of explain her position about why she made the decision she did. And I also came to understand, you know, and I, you know, she, she had shared with me that she was afraid if she had told me the truth, what my reaction would have been. And that’s probably pretty fair, because probably previously, I would have had a really horrible reaction to it, you know, but that was kind of life changing. And I just think, in general, the way I handle difficult situations, I’m not as reactive. You know, I don’t overreact in the moment. I’m able to take a few minutes and reflect on it and maybe try to really understand what I, what the situation is. Yeah. And then talk to people about it, and not just scream, cry or internalize it and go dark.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  37:25

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had a similar experience where my dad died of pancreatic cancer and was sick for a long time and then passed away. Weirdly, it sounds stupid to say unexpectedly. I mean, he’d been sick for six years. And we knew he was sort of out of treatment options. And yet, I had talked to him the day before he died for like an hour. And then my mom called me the next day and told me he died that night. And so I was completely you know, I live in Seattle, they live in DC, totally blindsided. I was, of course, drinking before he died. I drank all the way through my week in DC. I drank afterwards, you know, obviously, like crying to my husband, crying to my best friend, not remembering what I cried about, blowing everything up. And it was obviously hard and devastating. And yet, looking back, I realized that I didn’t really even mourn for him very well, you know, or reflect on all of the other things. 

 

And then, after I had stopped drinking, it was actually two years after my, one of my very, very best friends, like literally, we were roommates when we were 22. She’s the godmother of my son. She was 40. She had a five year old. And she was going through the end of brain cancer. She had her third brain surgery, and it was pretty brutal. The very end where, you know, first she lost the use of the right side of her body, and then her face, and then she couldn’t move. And then she was in a coma. I mean, it was, it was not pretty and not, not nice, I guess. It was painful to go through for her and it was painful to watch for everyone who loved her. But I was sober the entire time. And what was amazing about that was I didn’t make it all about me. I truly made it about her and her son and her husband and how much I loved her. You know, like I was able to keep perspective, that this wasn’t quote unquote, happening to me and yet, this was scary and hard and difficult to look at and I get, I was able to be there and not go home and drink a bottle of wine afterwards because it was so brutal, you know. 

 

And just that experience of going through those two really difficult things, drinking over it and not drinking over it. Like you said, I had to go back to my sober foundations, which I think that when you’re able to stop drinking, you have all these tools that you need to bring back when hard, hard shit happens. But I was able to like, do the bare minimum and ask for help, and take breaks and cry. And you know what I mean? Make sure I exercised all the things.

 

40:40

Yeah, you were able to take care of yourself. 

 

Yeah. 

 

And you were able to take care of the people who really needed to be taken care of.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  40:47

Yeah. And it was easy to be sad and scared and hurt and think it wasn’t fair, because it wasn’t fair. But I wasn’t getting blacked out every night and slurring and passing out and hungover. Right? All that shit.

 

41:02

Yeah, you weren’t hurting yourself. Yeah, that’s the one thing that I found is like things will happen. And I don’t hurt myself in reaction to those things. 

 

Yeah. 

 

And also, you know, not making it about me. And I think one of the biggest gifts of, you know, for me for being sober is actually not having it be about me. And that I can actually show up and be there for the people who may beat me in a difficult situation. It’s interesting that you bring up grief, because I think I had sent you an email, like, I’ve been doing a lot of work around grief. And you know, that first year, being sober was really just about not drinking and developing all those sober muscles, I think you called them and, and not overwhelming myself with like, layering the stuff on. And so I talked to one year sober. And I was like, Oh, I did it. You know, I’m so proud of that one year. 

 

And, and I was just curious, what is year two going to bring? You know, and it actually brought some unexpected things. No, it hasn’t been all rainbows and unicorns, because being sober, it’s also, you know, you get this new sense of clarity, like the veil has been lifted, like you’re fully awake, and you’re present in your body. And you have these things that happen that historically, you would have drank so that you wouldn’t feel the full emotion of it. And in year two, you don’t have that. And I think I had, I think you and I talked about this, I reached out to you and I wanted a name for a therapist. And because I saw the need, like things were bubbling up for me from my childhood around heavy loss, both my parents when I was fairly young, and my mom in a really traumatic way. And I feel so much of my drinking over the years with the binge drinking and the, I had not let myself grieve over these big things that happened in my life. And I think when you don’t let yourself grieve and work through those emotions, they always stay unresolved within you. Yeah. And so a lot of stuff that happened in year two is really letting that grief come up. And seeing that it wasn’t such a big scary thing. Of course, there’s sadness there. But it’s okay to be sad.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  43:31

Did you find a good therapist?

 

43:34

You know, because of COVID I did not. The person you had referred me to was totally, totally full. But you know, I’ve had a lot of therapy in my life. I’ve heard it all. I’ve heard a lot of it, you know, and so I just kind of gave up on finding a therapist and just worked with what I knew. And one thing that kind of, I had lost sight of, especially over the last 10 or 15 years was my spiritual practice. 

 

Yeah. 

 

And so I kind of reinvigorated myself with that, you know, just my connection to spirit and to the world around me. You know, one thing that was super surprising to me was because I did not expect this and you see this on the Facebook groups and you talk to people but this whole yoga thing. So a lot of people in sobriety really get into yoga, and I really have gotten into yoga like I, for the past year, probably did yoga almost every day. And not just for the physical aspect of it, but also that sense of being able to meditate and being present in your body. I think a lot of us really struggle with racing thoughts, like a really active Oh, yeah, and, you know, I like, I’ve historically always had been a road warrior. And so yoga really gives me that place on the mat, where I’m fully present in my body. And then also that meditative piece. And it just has given me a real sense of peace.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  45:15

Do you do it at home? Do you go to a studio? Was there a mix?

 

45:19

Well, because a lot of it was during COVID. So I did a lot in classes. But when I’m able to do what I was able to do in the studio, my preference would be to be in a studio, and we have a really amazing yoga studio here in Edmonds. Yeah. And the people that I really connect with and their approaches, you know, some yoga studios can be a little bit intimidating, because everyone in there is just like, super fit, like, perfect, yogi’s. And this, this studio really embraces all of the many differences in our body types. Like you don’t have to be perfect, and it’s just very open and inviting. And there’s a couple of teachers there that, that I just love, because they’re on a journey. They’re not perfect. And, and they’re vulnerable, and we’ll share that with you. But yeah, yoga, yoga has become a really big part of my life.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  46:18

And I love that you said that. I mean, I’m not a Yoga Girl. I always wanted to be, you know, that Yoga Girl. I’m just not. I’ve tried it. But I think that what, especially when you said like, the teachers you’d love and they’re on a journey, and you know, finding anything, any place that is, I mean, there’s so many things that you can do that are not centered around alcohol. I mean, you could find a meditation group, a yoga group, a class on like, whatever the Enneagram people go to painting classes, people go to guitar lessons, running clubs, I did morning workout groups. I mean, we think that the way to connect with people is through drinking, but they’re, I mean, I’ve had clients go to pottery, and that’s so tactical and meditative, and, you know, take piano lessons. So this is a time when you get to experiment and go back to joys that are not centered around alcohol, real, you know, socially, or just hitting that dopamine over and over again on your couch. Right?

 

47:33

Right. Well, it’s, I love that you, you kind of brought this up because I think about you know, all those years, especially as I began drinking more daily, like every night, like if it’s not living my life, no, I would come home. I could not cook dinner without drinking. Like, there’s no way I could come home and make dinner for my son and not have a glass of wine. You just can’t drink. You can’t cook without drinking.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  47:59

And at this age, he was growing up, right? So he was like, what? 10,11, 12? You quit on 16? Was that right? 

 

48:07

Yeah. Yeah, it was right after he had turned 16. 

 

Okay. 

 

Yeah, yeah, man, I wish I’d quit a long time ago. But you, you know, so I would cook him dinner, helped with his homework, and then he would probably go and do some gaming or something on his own. And I would sit in front of the TV and drink until I went to bed, you know, passed out some nights. I was not living my life, you know. And now, my life feels so much more full. You know, I have my yoga practice. I’m doing things that I love and finding new things that I love. You know, I had played tennis just recreationally in high school. I started playing tennis again. And I love that, it’s so much fun. You know, they’re used, you know, like, you know, we used to use that excuse, oh, I need to drink to be social look, guess what I really want. It’s not that social, like people would invite me out. And I’d be like, Oh, no, I’m gonna stay home. I’m tired. I wanted to stay home and drink and watch TV that I was not going to remember the next day.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  49:20

Yeah. We’re always like, we can’t stop drinking. Because what about the girls night? Or what about the vacation or the date night with my husband? I’m like, Yeah, that was 10% of my drinking. At best. You know, the other 90% was me on my couch watching shows that I do not remember the next day. Yeah.

 

49:42

Yeah. So lonely. Yes. So not to be sitting on my couch and just doing these things and like being able to go out with friends. And sure they may be drinking, but I’m out there with them. And, you know, we’re socializing and I’m actually having so much more fun. You know that one of my big things is Mason’s 18 now, and he’s going to be going off to college next year. And you know, and I am a little worried about being an empty nester. I’ve been a mom for 30 years, you know, I’ve had kids in the house for 30 years. And, but I can also see that you don’t, I’m going to be able to find things that I’m passionate about and will have the energy and the physical health and the mental state to pursue those things. You know, one thing I’ve always wanted to do is learn to speak Spanish. And I know a lot of Spanish. I took Spanish in college, but I’ve not really been conversational. So, you know, one of my plans is, he knows at some point when he’s off at college to go and do a Spanish immersion program somewhere. You know, so that’s kind of, I have, I guess it. Yeah, so that’s, like, I have these hopes and aspirations for the future. You know, like, I felt like my future is bright.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  51:05

Yeah. Yeah. And it is. Do you feel younger than you did?

 

51:10

Oh, my gosh, yeah. And people. I mean, I just feel like a new person. You know, when I started working with you, Casey, I was just so tired all the time. And I was not in great health. You know, I think people might look at me and go, Oh, she looks great. She looks healthy, or whatever. But I did not feel good. Like, I felt like I had arthritis, like all my joints hurt. I had chronic allergies, I just, you know, would have to take allergy medicine daily, you know. I was on the Claritin and the flonase. And crazily, you know, I woke up maybe that April after I stopped drinking, when normally I would have all these terrible allergies. And I realized, oh my gosh, I’ve not sneezed one time. I’ve not had to take any medication. Yeah, oh, my joints don’t hurt. So I really do think that drinking was making me sick.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  52:05

What’s that inflammation in your? Yeah, like it really does cause inflammation.

 

52:11

Yeah, it’s all that inflammation, it’s very inflammatory. And I really do attribute you know, all that drinking to just being very unhealthy. My back hurt, like all the time, and walking up and down our steps my feet hurt. You know, it was, I feel better than I did in my 40s right now. You know, I’ve got so much more energy. I have not dieted. But I just like all of my physical activity, and I eat healthier. You know, I’ve lost about 25 pounds. I have not yet posted on social media about my two year anniversary, because I’m like, I don’t know how I really, how I want to share this yet. I always do like to see the before and after pictures. Yeah. And like, I will go through and look at pictures of me before and pictures of me now. It’s night and day different.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  53:09

If you send me them, I’ll put them in the show notes just in case. 

 

53:13

I’m okay. Or yes, I will, I will send them to you. There’s one particular picture that I always go back to. And it’s that Easter before I stopped drinking. And we are in eastern Washington at my parents- in law’s cabin. And I’m like, every time I look at that picture, I’m like, is that me? You know, I literally look so much older. And then, and it’s just, it’s everything. It’s the look in the eyes, the heavy, you know, like the brightness, you know, like I just feel so much brighter and lighter. You know, in that picture, it looks so heavy. And not just weight wise, just like weight, drinking, just tired. And then I look at pictures now, you know, just happier. And like, I look like I always reflect on my relationship with my husband.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  54:02

I was gonna ask because I’m looking at something you wrote me when you hit 100 days. And you said when I started this sober adventure, I was worried it would be punishing and that I would be missing out on so much fun. The reality is I’ve never been happier, healthier. And this is at 100 days. A lot of people are like, Oh my God, you’re two years, of course, yeah, you say that. But this is like three months in. You said I truly laugh with my kids again. I enjoyed the simple things like walking to the park and playing tennis. And my relationship with my husband is improving day by day and I wanted to ask you about that.

 

54:46

Oh, that is how fast it happens. I mean at 100 days you do feel so dramatically different. Or at least I did.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  54:55

It’s not perfect because it’s not. You’re working on it. All this stuff and you have shitty days, and you’re too, but it’s definitely better than..

 

55:07

Oh my gosh, so much better. 100 days. And I remember when I first stopped drinking, like that first three, four weeks, I felt like a mack truck had hit me. I was so tired. I mean, all I could do is go home, you know, get home from work and basically climb in bed, and I just had to sleep. And I think a lot. That’s in large part because you are exhausted. You’re not sleeping very well when you’re drinking. I used to wake up every night at two o’clock in the morning with extreme cottonmouth and anxiety. And like, how much did I drink? Because I couldn’t remember, you know, did I say anything? Did I hurt anyone’s feelings? You know, what, what happened the night before? But 100 days in, you have not had that happen. And only in 100 days. Yeah, you know, you’ve slept at night. So for me, that is how fast it happened. 

 

And now fast forward two years, all those things that I experienced have been multiplied exponentially. And I think the reason why I get emotional is, you know, my whole life has been about my kids and my family. They are like everyone that’s like, they’re my life. And to be able, I look at my relationships with my daughters and my son and my husband, and they are exponentially better. You know, we’re a happy family unit. You know, and, and not that we haven’t had our issues or disagreements, we do. But the way I help us navigate those now is so different than what I did before. And me and my husband, we just celebrated our 19th wedding anniversary. 

 

Yay. Congratulations. 

 

Thank you. When we were at our dinner, you know, he’s having a glass of wine and I had to make me some fancy mocktail, which I love. And I am, it’s interesting for me, like I can be around other people drinking or have alcohol in the house, and it does not bother me at all. I feel in my mindset I have determined for myself that alcohol is poison, and I just cannot have it. You know, I don’t want it. And so it just, you know, I kind of think in the back of my mind I will wish they wouldn’t drink because that’s like drinking jet fuel.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  57:36

Mine is still drinking. 

 

We’ve talked about this. 

 

Yes. I mean, mine does too. Is it not in a problematic way? Or how does that?

 

57:45

Yeah. Yeah. No, he’s not. He drinks normally. Yeah, I mean, he. And I think he drinks a lot less now because I don’t drink. Yeah. But he is not a problematic drinker. Like he doesn’t get drunk. 

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  58:04

And it doesn’t bother you because I still don’t have wine in my house. I have plenty of beer, even though Yeah, in hard liquor. I never touch but maybe it’s just because my husband has no problem not drinking wine. So yeah, it’s just something that like, we started in the beginning. And but I think if there was red wine in the house, I would know where it was at every moment.

 

58:29

Yeah, well, I think one thing I wasn’t sure how to handle that when I first wanted to not drink. But I just thought, you know what, I’m always gonna be around alcohol. This is a drinking world. And so we did not clear out our liquor cabinet. I’ve got a credenza in our dining room that’s full of all kinds of wine. 

 

Wow. 

 

And it is not a temptation for me at all. 

 

That’s amazing. 

 

I just, you know, in my mind, I can’t remember, one of the books I read is, you know, drinking alcohol is like smoking a pack of cigarettes. Yeah, I hate smoking. I would never smoke.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  59:08

I read in the data that drinking a bottle of wine is the same risk of cancer as smoking 10 cigarettes. Yeah, so yeah, I imagine I like smoking 10 cigarettes a night or 12 when I drink more than a bottle, I mean, that’s incredible to me.

 

59:29

Yeah. And none of us would ever do that. Right? 

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  59:33

I drink like 40 bottles of wine a month. So that’s like 400.

 

59:37

That’s a lot of cigarettes. So my, my kids will always say too because, you know, my, my oldest daughter drinks and my 18 year old son is going to be going to college and he’s kind of experimenting with what he will and will not do. But they’ll always say that kind of in fun mocking me because oh yeah, if you’re gonna drink you might as well smoke a pack a cigar, friends. 

 

Yeah, yeah. 

 

And that is fine with me because at least they’re getting that message. Right? 

 

Yeah. 

 

Yeah, at least they know.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:00:09

Oh my god, my son always jokes. I mean, you know, he’s 14, he’s in high school, I drink a ton in college. So I, I have no illusions that he is not going to drink at all. I mean, if people choose, I’ve heard Gen Z and the millennials, so much less than Gen X and baby boomers. And you know, but I’m happy that he doesn’t see his mom essentially getting buzzed and drunk every night. And that he knows that, you know, I grew up with that what dinner was was the adults opening a bottle of wine, like that was everything I knew. And he knows that it’s not required for dinner. But what we were joking about is, you know, people were talking about having a party. And he was like, Dude, no one’s ever coming over to our house. First, my husband is the head of the middle school at the admin there. And second, he’s like, Yeah, dad’s the principal and mom’s a sober coach. 

 

Whoo, whoo. 

 

Yeah. That’s awesome.

 

1:01:17

Yeah, that’s so cute. Yeah. And that is something I think for us to be proud of is that our kids see us not drinking, and not falling into those social like, where you think socially, you’re required to do this. No, you get to make your own decision.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:01:31

Yeah. They also know about the dangers of alcohol. They know it’s addictive. They know, you know, it does things to your brain, their cancer risks, and you know, right, they can make their own decisions. And they will, but hopefully, they’ll have that in the back of their mind.

 

1:01:48

Yeah. And help them maybe temperate over time.

 

Yeah, yeah. 

 

Yeah. Or not, or decide not to drink at all.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:01:55

So was, you know, however much you want to share about your relationship with your husband, you’ve said what’s important? Yeah.

 

1:02:02

Oh, my gosh, it’s, I mean, you know, intimacy isn’t just about sex. It’s about the whole relationship. And I think he and I just connect so much better, like, we’re able to have better conversations. You know, if he’s upset about something, I’m better able to receive that, and maybe not take it so personally, or not internalize it, or make it about me, you know, that we just communicate so much better. You know, and I think, you know, he used to tell me, like when I was drinking, yeah, I think you should stop after two. And he would say I was, sometimes you kind of get, he wouldn’t say the word mean, but you know, you sometimes say things and are snippy. And I, and I’m like, Oh my God, no, I’m like, the friendliest, happiest drunk, what are you talking about? But now I can look back and say, Oh, my gosh, you know, I did do those things. You know, and it was not fair to him. And, and so we’ve completely taken that out of the equation. I just feel so much more connected to him now. And I think he to me, you know, there’s I think, even if you’re not a raging alcoholic and hitting rock bottom, I think you still do things that damage the trust. Yeah. And I think we don’t have that element in our lives anymore. And it’s just made a huge difference. You know, I have fun with him. We have fun together.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:03:32

And was he ever like, Oh, why don’t you, you don’t have to stop completely? Now we won’t have these fun times. Like, was there any element with him about not at all kind of fun sometimes when you get drunk?

 

1:03:45

No, not at all. I mean, I don’t think that he thought I wasn’t fun. 

 

Yeah. 

 

Sometimes when I was drinking, but he’s never said that to me. You know, like, he’s, he really supports my sobriety. I think he likes me better not drinking. 

 

Yeah. 

 

Yeah, yeah. He’s been very supportive. And like, I think if having alcohol in the house would have bothered me, I think he would have, he would have, yeah, like, happily gotten rid of it. No, I think when I just, I don’t know if you recall this, but when we first started working together, I didn’t want to tell him. 

 

Yes. 

 

And I was doing that.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:04:24

And how are you ever working with a life coach or nothing at all?

 

1:04:27

I didn’t tell him anything at first. And then he knew I was like, going away into this, you know, closing my office door and having these private conversations and I think that piqued his curiosity. So when he asked me I, you know, I wouldn’t lie about it. Then I did tell him I was working with you. He, I think he was a little surprised by that because I don’t think he really thought I had a drinking problem. I think he just thought sometimes when I drank I drank too much. And so I think he was a little surprised. I think it was a little of a shift for him because I think when we do drink too much, I think we hide it a lot so that maybe they don’t really know how much we’re drinking. But once I told him I was working with you, and these are the reasons why, I mean, he was 100% supportive of it, you know? 

 

Yeah. 

 

All along. 

 

And he’s never said, oh, when do you think you might start drinking again? 

 

And you know, that, none of that has ever happened. Although I have had people in my life like really question why are you not drinking? You know, it’s, Oh, it’s too bad you can’t drink. And I’m like, I don’t never say, but in my mind, I’m thinking, well, it’s too bad you feel like you have to drink. You know?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:05:36

Yeah, but I’m sure you’re so positive about how you feel now that it kind of takes, I was gonna say takes the piss out of them.

 

1:05:45

Yeah, yeah, it does. It does. 

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:05:48

And you had, when we were talking about this in advance, or wrote down that the wind, which voice in your head still sometimes matters to you? But yes. Or like, I don’t do that you shake your head and carry on. Like, why did that happen?

 

1:06:06

Well, in some of these situations, like I recently had to, for lack of a better word, fire or terminate an employee, and I was super close to her. And normally, that’s a situation where I would go home and drink. And there are things that come up and I’ll hear her voice. Oh, I know. Here’s a really good example. Isabella had gone to, she’s part of a wine club. That’s my oldest daughter. And she’d come back with all this red wine. And I was sitting in her kitchen with her and she opened a bottle and had a glass of the wine, which said, you know, you could probably just start drinking again, it would be okay. And I’m like, I just rolled my eyes at myself. And I’m like, Okay, I know that voice, then I would never start drinking again. So no, you know, be quiet. Go away. 

 

Yeah. 

 

You know, there was a grocery store in Magnolia when we lived there that was a store, but go through and stock up on all my wine. They had a, you know, a very extensive wine department. And for the longest time, for that maybe that first full year, year of sobriety, I could not go into this grocery store, I had gotten in there, like four or five months into it, because we had moved to a different neighborhood. But I went in there, and I had this anxiety. And so I had to leave and go do my grocery shopping someplace else. But recently, I was in that same grocery store, and I heard the language pop up, you know, and, and I would just, you know, so I know that voice in my head. Yeah. And I know what it is. And I just don’t give her any power.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:07:52

But it’s not something that every night you’re trying to white knuckle it?

 

1:07:56

No, no, yeah. No. And I honestly, I never really felt like I had to white knuckle it. I was not a white knuckle-er. And I think that’s in large part because when I started working with you, and like having that 100 thankful, and just being committed to that during that time period, drinking was not an option. Yeah, it was not an option. And then after that, we probably had situations that I removed myself from so I would not feel like I had to white knuckle it. But yeah, that voice can pop up occasionally. And I just, I just have a recognition of her. And you know what else that does? When I have that voice that pops up? It makes me reflect and think, Okay, well, what do I need right now?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:08:43

Yes.

 

1:08:44

Yeah. What else do I need? Do I need to take a nap? Do I need to go to yoga? Do I need to call a friend? You know, what do I need right now? Because you know that voice? There’s something that maybe is brewing in there that needs to be attended to.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:09:04

Yeah, no, that’s, that’s perfect. You know, to think about, like, I always think if you actually are thinking of drinking once you’re sort of solidly alcohol free. It’s just a signal that you’re not getting what you want, you know, yeah. Yeah, for sure you know what else and that you need to prioritize it.

 

1:09:26

Exactly. And you know, that’s one thing that I’ve become so good at over I think the last two years is really self care. And how important that is, I think a lot of us, especially, you know, professional working moms, we are the last person on the list that we will take care of. We’ll take care of everyone else and the dogs and the cat and the goldfish before will take care of ourselves. And that’s really upside down. You know, I think for us to really show up for the people we do have to take care of, to have ourselves and, and I really do, I prioritize my sleep. You know if, and I sleep like a champ now I think previous to being sober. I really thought I had insomnia. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was like I’ve been in I’ve had insomnia for 20 years. And now I just woke up because I drink too much. But yeah, most of the time. But I prioritize my sleep, I have to really get a good night’s sleep. You know, I have to yoga, like I. And I also, I also tell my husband, like, if things are getting stressful, I’m like, I can’t get, my cortisol is so raised and out of control, I need to go to yoga, you know, so, like, I really listen to my body and my mind and really do try to take care of myself, you know, exercise and eating healthy. 

 

You know, another big thing that happened to me in sobriety is, you know, I discovered I had an autoimmune disorder. And I think, had I not gotten sober, I would not have probably figured that out for probably quite a few more years. I have Hashimotos. And I think had I not, I know it had I not gotten so far would not have discovered that. And I think realizing I have that thyroid issue and being able to take care of it and manage it and adjust my diet is another big part of that self care. And, you know, it’s funny I was, I was looking through our notes from our coaching sessions. And I think in session six, one of the things that had occurred to me was just what is my life going to look like, in the future, you know. There were two paths, if I kept drinking, I would have gotten old a lot faster, you know, aged a lot faster. And I’m not afraid of aging, we’re all going to age. As I get older, I want to be as healthy and as vibrant as I can. And had I kept drinking and my thyroid disease would have probably really wreaked havoc on my body. The drinking definitely would have, you know, and I would have, I would not have felt very good in my 60s, and maybe, you know, but now when I kind of look out 5, 10, 15 years, you know, I, I see a really healthy, fun, engaging future for myself.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:12:30

Yeah. And well, for inspiration. My mother in law just hiked the El Camino in Italy.

 

1:12:40

Wow. 

 

That’s so shocking, right? 

 

Yeah. That is.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:12:47

A few years ago, she did the El Camino in Portugal. Gonna be one, but I’m just like, you’re killing me here.

 

1:12:55

That is inspiration. Very impressed

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:12:57

So yes, there is a lot of living left to do.

 

1:13:01

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And, you know, and I’m at that point in my life, like, I’ve, my mom died when she was 44. 

 

Oh, wow. 

 

And my dad died when he was 59. And so I think as I get older, like, I’ve surpassed the age my mom was, and then I’m about to surpass the age my dad was when he passed away. And so I think for a long time, in my adult life, I couldn’t really envision what my life would look like after 59. And I don’t know if that’s something common with a lot of people who lose their parents young, but I don’t have that issue anymore. Yeah, I definitely see like, a long healthy future for myself. Yeah, and it’s a gift, you know, and I think that’s the biggest thing with, you know, you’re not giving up the alcohol. You know, it’s not like a, an, you’re not taking something away from yourself. You’re giving yourself something and a gift. And yeah.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:14:01

Yeah, it’s crazy. Even talking about this, how big the idea of giving up alcohol is, and it’s for a million reasons in terms of society, and how we’re raised in the culture we live in. And sometimes, I mean, I talk about how it’s so, it’s so much more than just switching out a beverage, right? 

 

Right. 

 

It’s tied to your identity and, and your fears and how we socialize. But on the other hand, it is just a beverage, you know, like, giving up alcohol, it’s like choosing, you know, one way of looking at it is like, oh my god, it’s like choosing a Coke versus a Diet Coke, right. And I would, I mean, I should look at it both ways. I can look at it both ways.

 

1:14:50

Yeah, you would think it should be that’s, we should all look at it that way. But I think there’s so much societal pressure to Drink alcohol, which I don’t understand where my that, that I think we’re sold alcohol.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:15:07

Oh, I mean, we’ve all kind of I mean, the amount of money spent marketing and framing our beliefs about alcohol and what it does for us is staggering. And we’re also bodied and we do it to each other now it’s like this circular firing squad and there is, you know, you would do feel excluded sometimes if you don’t drink, especially if you have a big drinking crowd, and it does immediately hit your bloodstream and spike your dopamine. And I mean, so there are physical reasons. You know, it’s a huge transformative, tender change that sort of changes the trajectory of your life, the direction you’re going in. And it doesn’t have to be the biggest deal in the world. It can be like going to a dinner party and being like, actually, I’m a vegetarian. So I brought my own whatever it is, yeah.

 

1:16:04

Yeah. I think the other thing that was really helpful for me, that you taught me too, is you don’t have to label yourself anything. 

 

Yes. 

 

You know, you don’t have to, like, I went to dinner with, to lunch with a business associate and he’s a recovering alcoholic. And you know, and I said, Well, I’ve been sober for almost two years. And then I said, But you know, I don’t identify as an alcoholic. And he kind of laughed, he thought that was really kind of cute. And he goes, Well, I do, I identify as an alcoholic. But I mean, I think you really helped me with that, because I think I had, before I really got, yeah, before October 3, I think that I, I never really connected with that term alcoholic. Yeah, you know, and, and I would like everyone like Google, you know, am I an alcoholic? You know, take the little test or whatever. And, but, you know, for me, like going to AA just was not an option, because I just didn’t feel like that was a good fit for me. And so, you know, I think I just identify or I tell people, I’m a non drinker. Yeah, I’m a non drinker. And that doesn’t mean that I’m an alcoholic. I think anyone can over drink or binge drink, or be a gray area drinker. But that for me, I just that term alcoholic did not resonate with me.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:17:37

Yeah. And you don’t have to adopt it. There’s no, no need. I mean, I don’t, you know, I just say, Yeah, I quit drinking. 

 

1:17:47

And yeah, I quit drinking.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:17:48

I live on drinkery. 

 

1:17:51

And, you know, yeah, but, you know, the, on the flip side of this, you know, we talked a little bit about my, my daughter when she was going through her addiction, I leaned heavily into Al Anon. And that was really supportive and helpful in that situation, which I guess there’s a little, it’s a little odd that I was going to Al Anon but it was, I was drinking wine, you know, but that was very supportive for me.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:18:19

Yeah, I’ve heard from a lot of people that Al Anon is very helpful in sort of all the thing.

 

Yeah, yeah. 

 

Yeah. Last question I had for you was I know you are a member and have been a member of the BFB which is my favorite not drinking Facebook group. I still hear from lots of women both who do private coaching and just who contact me that are like I don’t want anyone to know, I’m not comfortable being in the group, I don’t want anyone you know, like, I just don’t want to be a part of a group where other people can see my profile, right? Who I am. And I’m always like, Okay, first of all, you don’t have to, you can always create another profile with another name and that’s perfectly fine and switch over but the other thing I keep saying it’s like these women are just like you and you know, there are a few good men, like it’s, you will be surprised whether it’s the BFB or any other group. I know women love Supermom Squad and they love TLC and but you know it is heartening to see that you are not the only one struggling with this.

 

1:19:37

So important. You know and even today, like I check in on the BFB and She Recovers every day. You know I still read through posts and occasionally I post. I think I go through fits and start to post stain, but just to see people all along different points on on their journey, for me just is inspiring and just keeps me aware and awake to what can happen either when you go back to drinking or as you maintain your sobriety, and, and then you know, people will share their struggles because all of us, I mean, life is complicated, and we all have ups and downs, and to have people so willing to share their journey. And I like to call it an adventure. Because an adventure has ups and downs, and you have pitfalls and things you have to work through. And I think just seeing other people share their journey just can inspire you and help you to feel supported. And then when you feel strong enough and can pose then that’s going to help someone else. So even today, I really don’t listen to podcasts too much. I listen to yours occasionally. And sorry, I don’t listen to it all the time anymore.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:21:03

Oh, it’s fine. I say that right to like, move on. Right. That’s the like, I always say the goal is not to just not drink, the goal is finally live your life. Yeah, just yet to move on without being dragged down by debating and drinking and recovering.

 

1:21:22

Exactly. Yeah. And so, but I do that. Those two Facebook groups are just a daily check in for me, a daily check in and they were a lifeline in the beginning, because I did feel really alone. You know, I didn’t have any other friends except for Libby, who, you know, Libby is so far down the road from in her sobriety. And I didn’t want to burden her either, like to be that needy friend that just would not leave her alone.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:21:54

What’s fun is, like, be able to on a Friday night, see people chatting and reaching out. 

 

Yeah, you know, yeah.

 

1:22:03

Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s a really good community. And it’s also like, you see some people just to see how their lives have changed in four or five years. You know, it’s, it’s very inspiring. And I, you know, I just really encourage anyone that’s kind of getting started on this journey, just to go all in. And for that, you know, first period of time, whatever it is, 30 days, 60 days, 100 days, surround yourself with these things. So that, because you won’t believe it yourself until you’re there on the other side of it. And if you’re on that Facebook group, you can see people all along, you know, from beginning, middle, you know, 10, 15, 20 years into their journey.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:22:49

Yeah. And I love that you can both find their, what I call your sober littermates. Meaning like, you know, I have mine, that I’m still like, a soft place in my heart for the people who started out with me, but you do, you know, someone posts, I’m on day six, and someone else would be like, me too. And then you kind of like, go through the ups and downs together and cheer each other on. You can also I mean, I, I’m also on there a whole bunch on the BFB. And I saw someone who 30 days ago was posting from a really bad place. And, you know, you, you could tell that the drinking was dragging, you know, her mental health and her physical health down really low. She’s on Day 27 today, and she’s talking about, like, I got up and I went to yoga, and I had the job interview, and it went incredibly well. And, you know, that’s amazing to see. And another woman who’s on day 100 and posting a picture of her look, right, fantastic. So, you know, I think I know, I post there and it’s, it’s sometimes helpful to hear from people with six years, but I think it’s almost more helpful sometimes to hear from people at day 50 cheering on people just getting started.

 

1:24:04

Right, seen. Yeah. And for me, too. Yeah. And I think as you know, like new to those groups like that, you know, posting for the first time when you’re 1520 30 days, and you’re scared, but then the response you get, I mean, you feel all the love and the support and the compassion, you know, and so, I mean, that was so helpful that, you know, I could post something and someone’s gonna respond so positively to it. You know, that Phil’s very supportive. And I actually had an interesting situation and where, when was it? It was last Christmas after our Christmas, or before Christmas party, I’d posted something. And then an actually really close family friend, who I did not know is on the site, sent me a private message and she’s someone that we’ve all been really concerned with, with her drinking. And I didn’t know she was on there. But she sent kind of a private message because she didn’t know I was on there. Yeah. So it kind of, you know, we had a very brief exchange over it. And I just let her know that, hey, I’m here for you if you need to talk, you know? 

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:25:19

Yeah, I think that’s everyone’s worst..

 

1:25:20

But yeah, you know, yeah, it, you know..

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:25:24

Everybody’s there for the same reason.

 

1:25:27

And I mean, I was fine with it. Yeah. You know, and she’s not someone who posts on either website, because she’s very private about you’re..

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:25:37

Glad she also is tapping into tools and resources. 

 

1:25:41

And that, you know, that she knows I’m, I’m right there with her. Yeah. You know, and, and I’m here, if you need to talk.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:25:49

Yeah, yeah. Well, so if anyone’s wondering about these two groups, I have a guide free guide to like finding and joining and how to get the most of the BFB and she recovered. So I’ll put it in the link to the show notes. The BFB is a little bit hard to find, but completely worth it. And I think it just means it’s more private and secret than many. But there, there are some other tips in there like unfollowing the group and then being able to tap into it just through the group icon. It’s easier than you think. But so everybody’s moment in time snapshot isn’t mixed in with family and friends. And you can go to it when you need it and not have it show up if your eight year old daughter grabs your phone. So just, I’ll put the link to the guide in the show notes. But it’s kind of helpful to figure out how to navigate it the best way. So thank you so much. I mean, I think that you’re going to help so many people and encourage them to get started and keep going. Is there anything else you want to share? If someone’s listening to this? And just in the beginning?

 

1:27:03

Well, I think the only thing I would say is you know yourself better than anyone else. And just if you are committed to making a big change in your life, just figure out what you need to surround yourself with, to help support you on that pathway. And for me, I just knew I needed someone to hold my hand. And I was so lucky that I found you and I, you know. I feel like a baby in you know, in the sobriety, and I just cannot wait to see what the future has in store for me. And yeah, so yeah, so thank you so much. I can’t believe we did this.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:27:42

I can, I can. It was, you’re awesome. And it actually, it was super fun like it was, it was super fun watching you embrace life and change and have the pink cloud and then get through really hard times. Because it’s sort of a roller coaster, but the good times really outweigh the tough ones and you deal with the tough ones in a better way than you would if you were drinking.

 

1:28:09

Yeah, for sure. For sure you love harder. I mean, you just feel all the feels, that good and bad. 

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:28:16

Alright, thank you so much.

 

1:28:18

Thank you.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:28:20