And when you say being uncomfortable with all the things was shiny, too bright, do you experience it like physically in your body? Or how does that sort of manifest?

33:06

Sometimes not as much for me anymore? Just because I’ve been working on this for so long. But yes, sometimes I still do and I and what a lot of people probably experience is this similar Not always, but it’s the can be the similar manifestations and like physiological experience of shame. So and that’s, you know, a topic that I teach. And it’s so important when we’re doing shame work to understand what happens in your body. For many people, it’s you know, you get like a hot face or head and neck some people, you know, they’ll get red and their neck and chest. Some people get tingling, armpits, tunnel vision, dry mouth, like these are like biological things that happened to us that at one time. And sometimes, you know, depending if you’re going to get you know, chased by somebody with a knife, like they’re important for bodies to do, but not necessarily when you’re taking a compliment or, or something like that. So yes, that was a long way of answering yes, yeah, definitely happen.

Casey McGuire Davidson  34:05

Well, and so one thing I thought was interesting is you talk about two things at the same time, right? Being afraid of shining too bright, shrinking, to make others too comfortable or others happier and sort of not necessarily going for what you want. So you don’t kind of stand up, and then also kind of moving away or being absorbed from hustle culture, right, how those two things fit together.

34:32

Yeah, it’s interesting. And I think that it’s a conversation that I think is important. Now, as many of us in the personal development space, you know, myself included, who were caught up in hustle culture. I mean, my first book 50 ways to live a kick ass life is wrapped up in hustle culture, and there’s some toxic positivity in there. And it was 2012. That’s what we were all doing. And when you know better, you do better and it was Probably around 2015 2016 where I started to think about it, and then I had my second burnout. And I thought to myself, okay, this can’t be the way to success, like, because this is not sustainable. And there were some other factors in there, like, I really had to have some hard conversations with my husband about the imbalance, you know, the division of labor that was happening. And so all this to say, I think that there is no perfect prescription that works for everybody, when it comes to deciphering. Like, are you participating in hostile hustle culture? Are you really playing small? Or is it enough like, each individual person has to decide, using their previous experience using the information that they have, and also using their instincts? Decide what works for them and what’s best for them. And I want to emphasize like the previous experience part, like, sometimes you don’t know, until you crash and burn, sometimes you don’t know until you decide not to go for something, and then it’s too late. And you missed an opportunity that you regret not doing. So I wish I had a better answer than saying it depends. And you have to figure it out for yourself. It’s usually not, sir, when it comes to what you just mentioned. It’s very personal and nuanced.

Casey McGuire Davidson  36:26

Yeah. Yeah. And it’s interesting, I actually just had a conversation with a client yesterday, who was sort of deciding about two jobs that, you know, her company her organization really wanted her to go for, which is a huge vote of confidence, right. And clearly, she’d been doing a kick ass job. And there was one that you could hear the energy in her voice, she’s like, this would be awesome, I could do XYZ, I could build a culture I would be, you know, the, I get to choose the office. And it could be no more than a 15 minute commute. And I could be home with my babies or meet the bus stop at 4pm and all these amazing things. And she’s also quitting drinking, right. So it’s super important to keep that like work life balance, and reduce overwhelm and figure out what makes you happy other than work, which can be really stressful. And the other job that her boss, and, you know, the general manager wanted her to go for was a lot of travel and really stressful and the internal politics and all the things and she was like, talking to me about it, because she was anxious about all weekend. And she said to me, I don’t want to do that. And I was like, okay, you know, what you want, like in one situation? You’re so excited. The other one, you’re really feeling dread? Why are you not just stating that? Or how big of a mistake would it be to step into a role that you’d like in your gut? Or like, I do not want this? You know, and like doing that check beforehand? And, and having sort of the bravery to turn down an opportunity? Yeah.

38:09

Yeah. And I experienced something kind of similar. And this is sort of when I was exiting hustle culture and realizing how much I got caught up and was influenced by our industry in the coaching industry, and how, for a long time, it was like, you know, make six figures in your business. And then I and then I did that, and that was great. And then, you know, now it’s now it’s like minimum, like seven figure business. And I’m like, oh, okay, I guess like, that’s the next goalpost and people talking about, you know, building generational wealth. And I was like, all right, I think I’m out, like, I just have never really been motivated by money. And I sort of wish that I would be, but I am more motivated by experiences, like, what do I want to experience and that I am very clear on, it’s always been so difficult for me to make money goals. And I’m always way off, like, either way under a way over, it’s same when I make spaghetti, like I can make either way too much or not enough. And then there’s way too much spaghetti sauce, like, I’m like, Okay,

Casey McGuire Davidson  39:09

what if I just decided what I want to experience, because I’m very clear on that I can get really excited about it. And then I just build my goals from that. I’m really not all that interested in making seven figures, like I see. I have colleagues that have, and I have not, I have yet to meet one who is relaxed and like stress free and just like, has the sort of like level of anxiety that I have, like, I just it’s just not for me. And for a long time I had to I had to ask myself, is this like my money blocks?

Casey McGuire Davidson  39:42

Or is this is this like an upper limit problem, or is it actually true to me?

39:48

It’s not like it’s I make enough money. Like I make plenty of money. I make more money than my parents ever did. I outturn my husband he was able to quit his job to be the stay at home parent I’m like I think I’m living a pretty damn good life, even though I don’t make a million dollars every year. Yeah. And I, I mean, that’s part of hustle culture. And, and I give that example, to point back to what I was saying before, and that it might take you a minute to come to the realization of, Okay, this conclusion that I’m coming to whether it’s about drinking, whether it’s about a job opportunity, whether it’s about how much money you make, whatever. Where is the where’s my come from? Like, is it the limiting belief or upper limit problem? Or is it my truth? And this also points to the conversation about what is my intuition versus fear? Because sometimes it’s hard to decipher that. And the advice I do have, like, like actual tools people can use, but at the end of the day, sometimes I’m like, sometimes you just have to give it time. Yeah. And just get quiet and make some decisions, and then kind of just feel it out. And, yeah, it’s, it’s tricky. And it’s not linear. And I wish it was.

But yeah, that’s how I love what you said, as well. And it sort of comes back to the early part of our conversation where you said, it’s so important to ask, like, what’s my conditioning? versus what is my truth. And maybe I said it wrong. But you know, there are these twin, like, twin things we’re taught, like, one is fear of shining too bright, but the other is like, put your head down work hard, like, a lot of us, it’s like, go to a good college, get a job, climb the ladder, get the you know, the gold star girls, right? Like, we want the pat on our head. And it’s hard to step away and sort of separate, like, what will people think of me, if I don’t hustle so much If I don’t take the next step, in order to be happier, to some extent, or in order to live your truth versus what everybody thinks you should want?

41:54

Exactly. Yeah, I love that. And I love how you said it. And it just, it’s such a personal journey. And you know, I have a lot of prescriptive answers about a lot of things. And sometimes I’m like, I don’t know, you have to you have to go out there and figure it out for yourself. Like I can give you tools and strategies to try to get to your answer. But sometimes it just brings you closer to the answer. And it doesn’t like you’re on the one yard line. It doesn’t actually get you in the it’s called the end zone, right when you make a touchdown are not a huge sports person.

Casey McGuire Davidson  42:27

Yeah, and I love when you’re just like, okay, in the book, make some noise. You take people through, like, questions at the end of everything, or like, okay, here’s how you’ve been conditioned. Here’s the culture raised in here, how it’s impacting you. And here’s kind of how to piece that apart and deconstructed. And it’s going to be different for other people. But yeah, what’s your, what’s your conditioning? versus what’s your truth? What are your fears? versus what you really want?

42:57

Yeah, I have over 250 questions in this book. And I think that’s an indicator of where I am now in my evolution as a coach and facilitator, author, speaker, and is that we have to acknowledge that everyone isn’t starting at the same place. Everyone has different family of origin stories, some people have previous traumas. And some people have different resources and support. And so all that to say, like, what if I have all the tools, but what works for one person might not work for another. And then also, just side note, if none of the tools work for you, you might want to look into your nervous system like is something going on with previous trauma, or anxiety or depression or something that’s a little bit more clinical. But I asked over 250 questions in this book, because I want the reader to learn how to empower themselves. I want the reader to learn how to coach themselves, essentially, because I love coaching. It works like if you, you know, as long as the person’s like trained and experienced, and it’s so powerful when you can learn how to get curious about something, instead of making a quick judgment call on it or, you know, jumping to conclusions, or you’re making up stories about things that might not actually be true.

Casey McGuire Davidson  44:18

Yeah. And sometimes it really does to have that help to have that external perspective to have someone else or coach be like, how true is that? Or, you know, you start going through all the things and it’s like, Okay, in this part where you were talking to me, you said x, and let’s talk about that, when they’re sort of going through all the laundry list of like, I could do this or I could do that or I’m thinking this and what about that and it’s like okay, let’s hone in on this one piece that you said because that seemed really important, and kind of drill that down. One thing I wanted to go back to because I’m just really curious and you sounded so clear on it. And to have such Great energy, you said that you’re really clear on what you want to experience. And I wanted to ask like, what is that?

45:09

Oh, okay. Yeah, I want to experience. So I decided in 2019, late 2019, that I was going to stop doing group programs unless I was co running it with a colleague, because I really liked doing it. And you know, it works. But it wasn’t. It’s not my zone of genius, as gay, Hendricks said. And that was a really there’s, there’s a point to my story, why I’m starting here, that was a pivotal moment, because from a marketing standpoint, that doesn’t make any sense for me to let that go. It’s, you know, we, in our industry, everybody talks about scale. And the way to scale is the one to many model, which works for some and it just wasn’t working for me it was it was more draining than it needed to be because of the way that I coach and how it when people get an etc., etc. So to let that go meant a loss of income. And so that’s really when I started asking myself the question like, what do I want to experience like, I love, love, love, love, love getting up on stage. And having people be engaged in a story that I’m telling where they are making themselves the hero of my story, even though it might be a personal story about me, even though it might be a story I’m telling about a client that I had, like they are seeing themselves in my stories, they are able to relate their life to what I’m telling them, and then they come up to me afterwards. And tell me about the aha moments that they had. That is such a different experience to me than running a group program. Totally different. Like it’s off the charts. And I also want to experience like writing books, there’s something really amazing about starting out with a Word document or my whiteboard that and I just like kind of throw up all of the ideas that I have, and like a mind map, you know, talk to my agent about it, create an outline or a book proposal, and then it turns into 85,000 words like that’s all put together like all these. It’s sort of like, I’m always fascinated with theatre productions and the amount of work that goes into a theatre production like this for entertainment for people. Books are similar, like the amount of people that have had their hands in this. It blows me away, and it excites me to no end. And like, that’s what I want to experience like those kinds of projects. And that just makes me so excited. Like it makes me so excited. And I fall into the biggest vat of gratitude. Like, I’m like, this is my life. Like I looked up to Judy Blume and Beverly Cleary and Francine Pascal who wrote the sweet Valley High series like I looked up to them so much. That seemed like such a far away. That was like, because I also grew up playing tennis that was as cool as being a professional tennis player. I was like, You are a legitimate like superstar in my eyes. Yeah,

Casey McGuire Davidson  48:05

like tapping into what you actually want versus, versus what people are telling you is the right thing to do and actually being like, okay, does this make me happy? Is this something I enjoy? Am I getting burnt out? Is this part of whole hustle culture? Like, right, all of that stuff?

48:25

Yeah, and it’s not that I didn’t enjoy group programs, it was just, it was exhausting me more than it should. And I was like, that is a clue that this isn’t for me. And I felt really guilty about it, Casey, because, you know, I had a lot of people who wanted to join them. And, and it also, um, you know, it allows me to reach more people at a lower price. I’m like, so are books, books are even cheaper, then I can actually give them more information. So it was it was a hard road to decide on. But that question of what do I want to experience really changed everything?

Casey McGuire Davidson  48:58

Yeah, no, I love that. Okay, so I was reading through the book, and I think it was in the taking up space chapter. But you talked about the concept of having a board of directors. And what I loved about it was that it wasn’t the opinions of your father and your boss and your husband or even the women in your lives. You talked about your board of directors being Jennifer Lopez, Billie Jean King, and Wonder Woman. And I was like circling it because I was like, What would Jayla do, right? Just the idea of it. So can you tell me about that?

49:35

Yeah, so this actually came from a coach of mine who she had us to do it as an assignment years and years ago, and I’m like, I am going to steal this. I credit her the book. But I also have like, on my wall you can’t see right now, Casey, but I have a picture of Dolly Parton. RBG Madonna’s on their Wonder Woman of course is there. Um, who else just other art and things like that and Amanda What was your name? The one who said the poem at the inauguration? Oh, yeah, sure that beautiful yellow. I remember her Garmin Amanda Gorman. Yes. And users of the G. Amanda Gorman. And she’s, she’s on there too. And so like these are these are the, it doesn’t have to be women. It can be anyone like these are the women who you would like if you could have a board of directors for your life, like an imaginary board of directors for your life where you could lean on them for counsel advising those types of things like who would it be? And it might be your mom and dad. Like it depends on your situation. But for me, like you said, it’s Jayla village, village and King Lady Gaga is on there. Cha de Gregorio from the mildly obsessed with her. But I think about that anytime I’m hesitating or afraid to do something. I asked like, what would JLo Do you know, what would Billie Jean King do when it comes to speaking up for women’s rights and, and it typically changes my perspective, sometimes I just need a nap. And like, I’ve gotten really good at knowing when I really do need a nap. And most of the time, it’s not just because I’m lazy, like I genuinely need to rest. So I’m not saying like I pedal to the metal all the time, like I used to be. But yeah, I love that. I love that exercise,

Casey McGuire Davidson  51:08

when it kind of just gives you the confidence to get over some of the fears or insecurities or things that are holding you back.

51:17

Yeah, because we don’t, you know, I talk about this in the book, too, is there’s a myth that many people buy into that, we will start the thing when we get the self-confidence. It’s like, how do I get the self-confidence, I give me the blueprint for self-confidence. And I tell people all the time, like, you get competence through actions and experience, and then competence and mastery. And for women, it’s also you know, the unlearning of these old this old conditioning and programming. But you need courage first, and you don’t need a ton of it. Sometimes you just need like 30 seconds of courage, so that you can send the email so that you can put your new rates on your, on your website so that you can reach out to that person that you know, has been sober for many years and ask for help. The self-confidence comes later, when you have the experiences around the times that you had courage.

Casey McGuire Davidson  52:08

Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned reaching out to people, or someone who’s, for example, already quit drinking and kind of raising your hand and having the courage to say that and in your book, you talk about the things you should start doing. And then the things you should stop doing. And I wanted to talk about, you have a chapter that’s about stop checking out of your life. So tell me about that.

52:35

Yeah, that’s all about, you know, the numbing mechanisms that we that we do, to avoid our life, like I was telling you about. And I and I want to, you know, also caveat this and say that it’s, I wrote actually more about what I’m about to say, and how to stop feeling like shit, and how the line between self-care and numbing out can be very blurry. And it really depends on the person. So I know for me, now I treat fiction books, as I did wine, you know, it’s like, I get nervous, if I don’t have a book, like lined up for when I finished the one that I’m reading, I did the same thing with wine. Like, if my inventory was running low, I would get nervous. And, you know, I can spend hours reading fiction and I sometimes, like I’ll get irritated when somebody interrupts me. Like, if I’m really deep in the story. The difference is, is that reading fiction isn’t negatively affecting my life. Like I’m not getting drunk from it. I’m not, it’s not impacting me the way that it was when I was drinking, or the way that I was when I was engaging in my love addiction, or my codependency. So I really can view reading as a method of self-care. One of the things I talked about in in the chapter and make some noise around checking out is, when it comes to feeling our feelings. I think the thing that we don’t really I certainly didn’t know this is that a lot of your power lies in the processing and sort of digesting, if you will, of our emotions, because I was shoving that down and shoving that down through drinking or whatever it was that I was doing. And I was just shoving down all the feelings and the trauma that I had experienced before. I didn’t know that once I walked through that I was going to be more powerful for having done it like that was news to me. It taught Yeah, pain equals pain equals power for sure.

Casey McGuire Davidson  54:29

Yeah, yeah. And one area of the book and it’s an area that I have been digging into more and so much more aware of recently, like in the last two years, is you talk about not ignoring the brainwashing and sort of the patriarchy, how it shaped women how we’ve internalized misogyny, and it’s taken me a while because it happens in really subtle ways right like in chronic dieting and being compared in the workplace or judging other women, you know, even online. And so talk to me about how that is something that as we gain awareness of can really make us stronger.

55:12

Yeah, that was a that was a tough chapter to write, especially the part about internalized misogyny. And that wasn’t in my original proposal, like in my chapter summary, that was not something that I was even completely aware how to name. And so it was sort of new research for me. But as you mentioned, internalized misogyny can manifest as chronic dieting, slut shaming, unhealthy competitiveness, like in the workplace, or even within families. And in our industry, in personal development, we hear a lot of, you know, women need to uplift women, you know, we need to never put down other women, which I disagree with, like some women behave poorly, like, and they need to be held accountable for that and, and responsible for that.

55:58

But for the most part, you know, I keep hearing like, Why do women put down other women and we see it like in Facebook ad comments, like just yeah, just like shooting each other down. And for really no good reason other than just being me, you know, and like, and just mean girls in general. Like, that’s internalized misogyny, you know, and I have, I have a friend who has a popular podcast, and she put out an episode where she was talking about, you know, like, why do we tear each other down and like, and I’m like, I need to come on your show and talk about internalized misogyny, because that’s what it is. And she didn’t even know she didn’t even know what that term was. So I like talking about it, but also dislike talking about it cuz it makes me so uncomfortable. Because I know, I still have so much topic.

56:41

But um, we do it because again, like it’s what was a lot of times like it was what was modeled for us. And I hate to say it, but and I love reality TV, also, but shows like real housewives. Oh, my god, yes, the Bachelor. And I don’t even know if it’s on again. But there was one show for a long time, he was on VHS and called like bad girls club or something. Where it was just women fighting and being catty, and backstabbing each other and I’m like, Oh, my God, this isn’t how we are inherently. It’s not. It’s what we’re taught. And a lot of times we do it, to be able to get closer to power to be able to get closer to it. Like that’s what the bachelor is like, No, I know, I know. People are like, no, don’t take the bachelor away from me. I think it’s fine to watch it, but just understand what’s going on.

Casey McGuire Davidson  57:33

Yeah, yeah. And it’s like that idea of there’s only one seat at the table, or there’s not enough or why there’s almost jealousy, sometimes like, what does she get to do that? You know, like, let’s pull her back sometimes and right, and, you know, competitive in the workplace. So, so much of it is unconscious. But when you were saying I was like, Oh, yeah, that’s a cliché about women, or that’s something that stereotype. Yeah, a stereo. Like, I feel like a lot of stereotypes are internalized misogyny, that have been set up to keep women in a certain frame.

58:11

Sure. And like, let’s be honest, like fighting is entertaining. A lot of times, it’s like, are we gonna are we gonna? Are we gonna tune in to a show where people are having, like, mature functional conversations? Like, that’s pretty boring. I know. Cuz I haven’t with my husband and like, they are not dramatic or, or entertaining by any means. So, I mean, I hope that most of it is scripted, and that it’s not really real. But it’s like, what are we? What are we teaching our daughters? Like, it’s just going to perpetuate this, this universal stereotype. That doesn’t have to be true. It doesn’t. It doesn’t. And that’s, that’s the conversation I want to have.

Casey McGuire Davidson  58:51

Well, and there’s a difference between like, being mean, or, you know, being a mean girl, or cutting someone down versus, you know, sometimes people say like, Oh, she’s high maintenance. And in the book, you talk about how women’s empowerment begins with women asking for what they want, period. So it’s like that line between? Are you high maintenance? Are you just drawing a boundary and asking for what you really want versus stuffing it down and bending over backwards and trying to accommodate everyone else? And then you get the drinks of what’s left? And I know for me, then let me drink a bottle of wine at night because it’s my only reward. 

59:31

Yeah, I started I started thinking about this several years ago when I must have read an article somewhere about Tina Turner. And how she has been labeled a diva because she has very strict policies around when she’s touring and things like that. So it’s the whole like, nobody can come and talk to her and or maybe she’s like one person that now I don’t remember what the details were, but they were they were fairly strict. And like I am not nearly as famous as she is. And I’ve experienced that. Though before like, if I go and speak up on stage at like a large conference, if I’m if I don’t have someone there with me and I’m walking through the crowd, I will get stopped a dozen times to take a selfie for someone to stop and talk to me to tell, you know, for them to like pour out their story to me. And if that is unorganized, it can be a bit of a, it’s just can be chaotic. So I can’t even imagine what that’s like for superstars. And, and like, I understand that they have to have these rules and ask for what they want. And I, I’m gonna bet that when men do that, they’re just called rock stars, you know, and it’s just like par for the course. But when women do it, they’re divas, or they’re high maintenance. Yeah. And that’s what infuriates me. And just, that’s why I want to have the conversation is like, no, they’re just human that I mean, Tina Turner is also a rock star.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:00:53

Yeah. And part of that is just would you make the same comment or have the same judgment about yourself or about someone else, if they were a man,

1:01:02

right. And in order for people, you know, for Tina Turner, in order for her to be the entertainer that she is, she has to set these boundaries. And for a lot of people listening to this podcast, in order for you to be the woman that you are the employee, that you are the partner that you are the mom that you are, you also deserve to set boundaries. And again, we are I talked about this in the book, like there was a point where I realized I hadn’t made myself a priority. So I did make myself a priority, simultaneously realized that I was also continuing to make everyone else a priority, and it was just burnout. So it’s just something to think about when it comes to boundaries and what you’re afraid of being labeled as,

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:01:43

yeah, at the end of every chapter in Make Some Noise, you walk readers through what you call the unlearning. And there are four steps. So as women are listening this to take something away that they can implement today, as they’re kind of thinking about this and moving through their lives. What are those four steps?

1:02:04

Yeah, so the first one is to pay attention. And it’s sort of a no brainer, like, and that just goes back to self-awareness that you probably hear a lot about when it comes to recovery, or when it just comes to personal development. So you have to pay attention to when your negative self-talk is cropping up. When you find yourself putting other women down, and you catch yourself doing it, you know, so it’s just pay attention. Just notice. That’s it. Just notice, it’s all about the noticing.

And the second step is curiosity. And so instead of like when you notice, instead of suddenly naming and putting a label on it, like, well, that’s good, or that’s bad. You just get curious about it. Like that’s, that’s the goal. So like, why do you think that you judge women who are super ambitious? Why do you think that you drink an entire bottle of wine at night and can’t cut back even though you even though you want to like what is it that stopping you from reaching out for help? what’s getting in the way, every time you, you know, start drinking again. So just again, just curiosity.

And then the third step is self-compassion. Because what often happens when we start noticing and getting curious is that we beat ourselves up for it, like we go down like that negative self-talk path. So you cannot better yourself without a healthy dose of self-compassion. I wish that that was a part of it, because I know how hard it can be. But that’s imperative.

And then the fourth step, the last step is to keep the momentum. And what I point to, most often when I’m talking about keeping the momentum is having a conversation with someone, this might be your therapist, or maybe your partner, it might be your best friend might be your sponsor. Just someone like as you start to become aware, and get curious. Just talk about it. Like you can’t fix anything you can’t talk about.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:03:54

You can’t.

1:03:56

I’ve tried. I grew up in a family where that was our mo didn’t work. So yeah, those are the four steps.

1:04:04

Yeah, I love that. And in the beginning of your book, make, make some noise. I love your letter to the readers. in it. There was a part that I wrote down because I was like, yeah, this makes so much sense. And you said, we as women have been socialized to not make too much noise, to put everyone else before us to make everyone else comfortable. And many times we don’t even consciously realize that it’s happening. But unconsciously we know it manifests in resentment, poor boundary setting, lashing out. negative self-talk, unnecessary apologizing. Yep, I do that. People pleasing, approval seeking, and that feels like shit.

1:04:52

I think it’s one of those things too. I love a sayings. I don’t I don’t go to a anymore but they were better. Official to me for a while, and one of the things is it works until it doesn’t. And I think that so many of the struggles that women face when it comes to personal development fall into that category. You know, perfectionism and control worked for me in college and helped me graduate with honors. And it worked until it didn’t. And it’s the same with, you know, people pleasing and like, if we, if it didn’t work 100% of the time, we wouldn’t do it. Yeah. So it can work for a certain amount of time. And then there comes a time in place where we realize like, this feel like shit, like I, I wait. And sometimes like women will come to me again with this, like general malaise of, of not really able to point put their finger on what’s wrong, and I asked them, like, what are your coping mechanisms? Like? What do you do when things get hard? What do you do when shit hits the fan? What do you do when you and your partner have a disagreement? it you know, is it drinking? Is it perfectionism? Is it avoiding? And that can very much impact how they’re feeling about themselves and about their life?

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:06:12

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I have loved this conversation. Thank you so much for coming on. I know women are gonna want to get this book and follow-up with you. So what’s the best way for them to find you?

1:06:24

Probably noise.andreaowen.com because they can click wherever to either get the e-book, print version or audiobook version of the book. And then there’s all the bonuses that are there, too. So there’s a 60 something page workbook, because I asked 250 questions in the book. They’re all there in a beautiful workbook for you. And there’s a book club that starts on September 20. It’s totally free if they want to join that to Ooh, I may have to join that myself, because I got to see your name in there.

1:06:51

Very cool. Well, thank you so much. This has been amazing.

1:06:57

Thank you so much, Casey, for having me. Thanks, everybody, for listening.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:07:02

Hey there before I jump off this episode, I want to remind you that you can sign up for my brand new 60-minute masterclass, The 5 Secrets To Successfully Take A Break From Drinking, even if you’ve tried and failed in the past, by going to hellosomedaycoaching.com/class. Now, this training will not be around forever. So if you’re interested in figuring out what you’ve been doing up until now, and why it hasn’t been working, and exactly what to do. Instead, I encourage you to take a few moments, sign up, pick a time that works for you, and actually attend the session. I’ll teach you how to shift your thinking. So you can get out of the really shitty cycle of starting and stopping and starting again, and it’s okay if you’re thinking that you don’t actually want to stop drinking. I promise you, if you attend this class, you will change the way you’re approaching this process. So save your spot. Go to hellosomedaycoaching.com/class, and I can’t wait to see you there.

So thank you for coming on here. I couldn’t appreciate it more. 

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Hello Someday Podcast. If you’re interested in learning more about me or the work I do or accessing free resources and guides to help you build a life you love without alcohol, please visit hellosomedaycoaching.com. And I would be so grateful if you would take a few minutes to rate and review this podcast so that more women can find it and join the conversation about drinking less and living more.