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Drunk-ish With Stefanie Wilder-Taylor

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

drinking, felt, sober, book, years, people, women, day, writing, baby, parenting, story, kids, drunk, mom, interviewed, read, sobriety, alcohol, pregnant, quitting drinking, sippy cups are not for chardonnay, naptime is the new happy hour, Drunk-ish, mommy wine culture, stand-up comedian, stand-up comedy, Booze Free Brigade (BFB), accountability, journey in sobriety, 12 step program

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Stefanie Wilder-Taylor

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a buzz, how to sit with your emotions when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Hi there. I am really excited for today’s episode because the person I’m interviewing was actually a huge part of my story of quitting drinking and sobriety long before she even quit drinking.

Her name is Stefanie Wilder. She made a name for herself. As a champion of a mom’s right to booze. She wrote the now defunct column, “Make Mine a Double: Tales of Twins and Tequila,” and books including, Sippy Cups Are Not for Chardonnay and Naptime Is the New Happy Hour.

Today, Stefanie is sober. In her new book, DRUNK-ISH: Loving and Leaving Alcohol, Stefanie recounts the rise in the fall of her relationship with alcohol from the liquor cabinet.

Concoctions that got her started at 14 to her online fame as a wine loving mommy blogger to the disastrous evening when she drove drunk with her kids in the car that marked the end of her drinking.

Stefanie, thank you so much for being here.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  02:28

Thank you so much, Casey, for having me. I’m really excited.

Casey McGuire Davidson  02:31

Yeah, I’m excited to and I mentioned to you just before we jumped on that long before, I think you even quit drinking. My son was born in 2008. And I was a little bit of a late mom, I didn’t want to sort of give up my younger lifestyle. And when he was born, I found your book. Sippy Cups Are Not For Chardonnay. And Naptime Is The New Happy Hour. And I glommed on to those because I was fully in the, my child will not define my life, and I will still be fun, and sought out other moms who love to drink at happy hour. And so, I was fully bought into that.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  03:20

Yeah, I mean, I think it’s maybe not as common as the mommy wine culture would have you believe. But I think for people like us, maybe who had that specific attitude or came into it a little later, I had a whole life. You know, I had my first daughter, I was in my late 30s.

So, I’d been a stand-up comedian for years and years and years, I just had such a lifestyle of just doing whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. And I was really one of those people who was on the fence about even having kids. You know, I knew I didn’t not want to have a baby.

Yeah, but it was really hard to wrap my mind around that big a change to my lifestyle. I thought I was pretty happy as is. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, absolutely.

But I definitely wanted to be a mom. Part of the reason I think to that I wanted to be a mom was not necessarily the right reason, but whatever. I absolutely am obsessed with my kids.

So, whatever got me there. But it was kind of like, I didn’t like the way I was parented. And I saw having my own child as a way to read like a redo. You know, like, I think I know what, how I would want to raise a kid. Course all that goes out the window when you have kids and you’re like, I’d have no idea what I’m doing.

Casey McGuire Davidson  04:46

Yeah, absolutely. I know what you mean because my husband and I had been together since we met when we were 22 and got married when we were 27 and had our first kid at 30 too. And so, my sister, you know, met, she’s a year and a half older than me met her husband got married and had kids pretty soon thereafter, to her kids are a year apart. And my mother was very much like, when are you going to have kids? And to the point where she was, I mean, I remember this vividly, she was like, you know, Casey, that you can drink red wine when you’re breastfeeding, because it helps the milk let down. I mean, that’s the old school thought pattern. But the fact that she said that to me as if she thought that was the barrier. To me getting pregnant. In my mind, like looking back now. I was like, Oh, wow, that’s kind of messed up.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  05:45

That’s so interesting. Yeah. Did you have? I found this to be true for me and quite a few women that I know that don’t. Moms that I know that quit drinking, but when I was pregnant, it was very tricky, because I did not really have the urge to drink that much. My, I would not have said before I even got pregnant. I would not have said that I had a problem with alcohol. I thought I drink like everybody. Oh, yeah. And when I had to quit, but I did drink probably a lot. And, you know, we’ll get into it. But I mean, I definitely there were, of course, looking back a lot of signs that I had issues with alcohol, but I chose not to see those signs. And then when I got pregnant, I noticed that I didn’t have a real problem. Not drinking, I think there was it’s something about the hormones for some people, because I also I didn’t I did drink in my first pregnancy, but like my OB, is back in the day that they were like, my OB was very specific. Like, you can have two drinks a week. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, you know it, but you have. So, I would go okay, I’m going to have one glass of wine, you know, on a Tuesday, and then I’m going to have a glass of wine on a Saturday, but some weeks, I wouldn’t even have any.

Yeah, my twins. I was. I was sober at that time. But I also had no problem quitting.

Casey McGuire Davidson  07:13

Yeah, I did have problems not drinking when I was pregnant. And we’ll talk about this. But I think that’s also part of fact, obviously, everywhere you look, it’s like, you know, don’t drinking when you’re pregnant is dangerous, right? Fetal you go into the bathroom at a restaurant or bar, this sign is up there. And now looking back, I’m like, Okay, so that’s implying that drinking alcohol at any other point, as long as you’re not pregnant is not bad for you at all. But also, there is so much so societal pressure to not drink when you’re pregnant. Like, if I was seven months pregnant and went out to a restaurant in order to glass of wine. People would look at me, you know, yeah, you had to do that at home. Right. And I didn’t really drink until my third trimester when I was sort of told, like, oh, you can have half a glass of wine a week. And all my friends thought that too. But it was also like, I sought out that information. I was like, oh, okay, cool. But when you’re not drinking, the, the entire pressure is flipped to if you don’t drink people are like, Why aren’t you drinking?

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  08:30

People are very up in people’s business about drinking or not drinking, as it turns out. Yeah, and most other things, right? Like, how you parent? Yeah, how much sleep you I mean, whatever you’re doing, somebody has an opinion about it. I’ve had to learn to just have a very thick skin. Well,

Casey McGuire Davidson  08:48

especially when you have a baby, right? People will just come up unsolicited and give you parenting advice. Or if you’re pregnant, they will just come up and touch your belly. And it’s like, What the fuck? Yeah, you know? Yeah, no, I, I finally decided my husband and I decided that we would no longer judge anyone who had kids older than ours were that was once we had a kid because we were like, we used to be like, Oh my god, I can’t believe they’re giving them an iPad in a restaurant. And then we our kids got to that age, and we were like, have the dabei.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  09:23

Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I didn’t know anything about parenting. I read no parenting books. I read pregnancy books, when I was pregnant. Because whatever, wherever I am, that’s what I want to know about. Like, I’m not a person who’s looking into the future, like, what’s that going to feel like? You know, so I did no pre planning when I was pregnant. I took a breastfeeding class. I think I did, and I think I thought. Well, that’ll that seems like a natural thing. Like, you just, the baby sucks on your boob like, how are you going to be? I don’t need to take a class. That’s ridiculous, you know, and I definitely didn’t do anything Regarding parenting until after I had a baby, and then every moment is like an ocean moment, right? It’s like, oh, now I have a baby. Now what? What are they? What do you do with them? How do you keep them busy? I really am question, Tara. I had the baby. Yeah.

Casey McGuire Davidson  10:18

And so, two things. One, I felt the same way. And I also like, was definitely not a stand-up comedian, but was like, thinking I was really funny at all times. So, I was. Always been like, you know, like, I went to the hospital or even before, you know, there are those moms who don’t want to have an epidural, and God bless you like Jesus Christ, I can’t imagine. But like, I would talk to my friends. And I’d be like, I mean, I take recreational drugs, why the hell wouldn’t I take what you know? I’m like going through childbirth. So yeah, I thought I was very funny. But I particularly joked about drinking and alcohol and stuff like that. Well, one thing I think is super interesting is you didn’t read any parenting books. But then you wrote some, right, because even though Sippy Cups Are Not For Chardonnay. And Naptime Is The New Happy Hour weren’t, per se parenting books, they were commenting on what everybody was going through, and like, tongue in cheek giving advice kind of thing.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  11:25

Well, the reason for that is because I started writing that book when my older daughter was only a few months old. So, what happened is, I was home with this baby, I was going crazy. I had a lot of anxiety, which I didn’t, I don’t think I would have told you at the time, it was anxiety. I think I just felt so uncomfortable. That is this forever. Like I’m home with a baby. She’s, you know, not sleeping a lot. This was in the first like few months, day and night trying to figure out what to do with her. My husband had was working. And I was very jealous that my husband got to continue having a job. And I was just feeling adrift. You know, I was like, What do I do? I’m not this person that enjoys just going to target. Now, I am. Don’t worry, I love going to target. But at the time, I was like, I don’t care about recipes, or going to target or all the things that I feel like new moms are supposed to care about.

So, one night, I was like, How do I how can I connect with like my old life a little bit. And I’d heard of blogging, it was in the very early days. And I just decided, Oh, well maybe I can write something about this experience. And it was kind of a rant. I started this blog. It was so old school, it was blogspot.com. It was very simple to like, set up because you weren’t like buying a domain or anything. It was literally a blog, a service, right? Like any one of those two. Okay, cool. So, you get it.

So, one night, I had a couple glasses of wine. And I just wrote this rant about how this was not for me. Like I felt like I bought it. I was in a cult already. And you know, my daughter was young, and I don’t want to talk. I don’t want to just go to Target. And it was because I’m a stand up. It was funny. You know, I wrote this funny thing. So, then I was like, Well, I now I need somebody to read it. I didn’t know how to get actual readers. So, I sent it to my friend at the time. Chelsea Handler was a really good friend of mine and she way had a Birmingham is now too but yeah, we knew each other from stand-up. We were really good friends. She was. She was honestly like, one of my closest friends. She threw my older daughters, my first babies, baby shower with my friends. So, I sent it to her. Oh, and she and I had read each other’s writing a lot, because well, I’d read a lot of her writing. So, she had a book that was not out yet. She just gotten a book deal. So, she had an Agent. And then I sent it to like, my sister and a couple of my other friend and you know, so anyway, all of a sudden, I swear to God, the very next day, I got a call. And it was an Agent, and it was Chelsea’s Agent, and he ran away. I’m going to get you a book deal. And I thought it was a prank phone call. So, I almost hung up on him. Because Chelsea was known for being doing little pranks. And I was like, Who is this childhood? And he was like, this is Chelsea’s Agent. And then he told me his name. And then I was like, oh, and he’s like, Have you written anything else? Basically, I had to just say, I was like, Yeah, of course, I’ve written other things I had not. This was my first try writing anything about parenting.

Anyway, he said, Don’t put anything else online. Send it to me, and I’m going to get you a deal. So, I never did a proposal. So, I get this book deal. But like 6 weeks later, I had a book deal. So, before my daughter was even 6 months old, I started. I had a deal to write a parenting book now. I knew nothing about really about parenting. So, all I could do was right about my experiences, kind of, as I was going through them.

So, I wrote funny chapter about going to mommy and me. Some of these things I would do just to write about them. Yeah. Yeah. But then I had to kind of write, the reason I was commenting on other aspects was because I hadn’t gone through it. So, like my, my editor wanted me to write a chapter on potty training. I was like, I’ve got a six month old baby, I don’t know what I’m going to say about potty training. So, I just like would Google potty training, and then I would just try to write funny about all that stuff. But yeah, my mom made sure to point out to me that we don’t have a good relationship. But she made sure to point out to me that it was ridiculous that I had a deal to write a parenting book when I barely had any experience. Having a being a parent.

Casey McGuire Davidson  15:50

I, well, my mother would say that too. And she wouldn’t totally be wrong. But I totally resonated with your books and love them to the point that my son was like 12 weeks old. And we joined Seattle has this like, Hep screw by tickets like parent early support program. And so, what they did is they paired you with like six other couples, who also had like 6 to 12 week old, or whatever. And there was one leader who maybe had a 3 year old. And you met every week for like, God knows how many weeks, and I went to the first one, and it was in the evening. And the woman with a three year old. I mean, very nice, but I swear to God, she, and I’m going to offend someone, she must have been a woman who like, put the sign on the door that like, do not ring the doorbell because the baby’s sleeping.

Yeah. I was just, like, I’m never going to be that mom. I was so judgy. And I went there. And she literally served us goldfish and apple juice. And I was like, What the fuck is this? It’s 7pm. I’m with a group of strangers. We have to sit here for an hour. And so, they put a piece of paper around, like signing up for the next round. And I said, I am not a hoster. I signed up for the very first spot, so that I could serve alcohol so that I could show them what this should be like, for the next couple of months in my life. I was like, oh, hell, no, we’re going to like, have a bar. And, you know, it was crazy. So, when I found your books, I was like, Yes, you are my people. I’m going to take notes from you. And like, I gave it as a baby shower present to all of my friends like I was seriously attached to your right.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  17:42

Well, the thing is, I you know, I still defend, I defend that book. It’s not that it was the attitude. It wasn’t, I wasn’t, you know, saying, be drunk around your kids. It’s just that it’s what I thought was a funny, edgy attitude was drinking. Yeah, it’s not that I was like, it’s not and I’m sure the same for you. It’s not that I was really drinking. So alcoholic Lee at that time, it was just that it was my sense of humor. And it was a way to connect to my old life. And I think you probably felt the same. It was a way to go. Like, just because I had a baby doesn’t mean that I’m just a mom. Like, yeah, I don’t want to be called LBS mom. Like at every playgroup I go to like, I’m still Stefanie, I’m still fun and funny. And like, I still have the same interest I had before I had a baby. I didn’t change. Like, I didn’t have a lobotomy. That was kind of what the book was trying to say. I don’t suddenly think it’s a great idea to spend, you know, $1,000 on my kids first birthday party, I was trying to say, like, let’s all slow down, and stop being ridiculous. Like, our whole being doesn’t have to change. We don’t have to just identify with mom shit. And that was what I was trying to say with that book. And I think that did resonate with a lot of people. And I don’t take it back.

Casey McGuire Davidson  19:03

No. Well, you know, what I think is interesting is I used to, I mean, and for a lot of women, I think it’s true, like, drinking was part of my identity, but it was sort of a metaphor or shorthand for like, I’m fun. Or I’m more than a mom, or, you know, I used to describe myself, I’d be like, Oh, I’m married. I have two kids. I work in Marketing. I’m a red wine girl. I live in Seattle, like it was. It was part of who I was. And it also when I stopped working because I was a director in a company. Like you said, my husband kept going to work. And he would stop for like a latte on his way home and I’d be so pissed because I’m like, What the actual fuck? I’ve been doing nothing but taking care of this screaming child for like 12 hours in your store. hoping for a latte. You know, like, like somehow those 10 minutes were really kind of like make or break me because I was so desperate.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  20:07

How about when you when you’re sitting on the couch with the baby and your husband gets up and goes to take a shower? Oh my god like, oh, that must be nice that you’re trapped

Casey McGuire Davidson  20:19

in your lake room glass of water like are you kidding me? separately? Like do they spend more time in the toilet more than like ever before when they when you have a baby and also like, I swear to God, when I had babies, our lawn has never looked so good. Like the guy was out there with like, the shoes with the with the little things underneath that. So, he could aerate the fucking lot. I was like your air at the LOD like, this is ridiculous. But yeah, and I found that, like, I had all these interests before I had my baby. I could like, you know, go to yoga, and go kayaking, and like, go to Pilates and I went to therapy and I guitar lessons. I mean, I still Wow, all these other things. And I had a baby, and I was just rushing home from work to get to daycare pickup before it closed. And then you have the baby food and the bath and the bed. And so like drinking, I could multitask. You know, it was like the one fun thing that I could keep like, you can play Legos with a glass of wine.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  21:27

I agree with you, I agree with you. And I would say that it just wasn’t a problem until it was. And then for a lot of reasons. It was a problem for me. And then of course, looking back, you know, it was it. Alcohol was something that I turned to for self-medicating reasons and for relief and for fun and for all those things. And it but it does get exacerbated when you are home with your kid, and you don’t have any other outlets. I can see. I wonder if I ever would have drank really alcoholic? Really, if it wasn’t for having a baby. I mean, I probably would have. Because if I look back at how I drink, and of course I’m not blaming having a kid, but I’m blaming. I’m not blaming anything, but I’m saying I wonder if the way my habit became dangerous only came to the surface. You know, once I was a parent?

Casey McGuire Davidson  22:25

Yeah. Well, so tell us your story. Tell us how you went from writing. naptime is the new happy hour to then which I cannot believe you did being so brave to writing on your blog that you quit drinking, like the Monday after the Friday you stopped. Is that right? In terms?

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  22:49

Yeah, it was a few days after? Well, what happened is, I had been keeping up with my blog, even though I now had books coming out. So, I was writing and once I had twins, but I didn’t have my blog wasn’t super successful. You know, some people think that I got this book deal off of having a blog, I didn’t I got the book deal because Chelsea Handler got me a book deal, basically. So, I kept writing on the blog, and people were reading it. And it was more for like, a sense of community. It was more because, you know, it was that immediacy, I wasn’t going out and doing stand-up. So, blogging was a way that I could express myself and then get immediate comments. And I was one of those I lived for that kind of validation for people to go like, Oh, I’m going through the same thing. And, you know, at this point, when I started getting a few more readers when I had twins, because you know, I was going crazy. And then my twin pregnancy was having some problems. So, people were really following along. So once when my twins were, you know, newborns because I quit drinking, they were 18 months. So, suffice it to say that I was very in touch with my readers. I was blogging quite a bit. Well, I don’t know if I want to say even secretly, but I was definitely. I had tried to quit drinking when my older daughter was two and a half. I did quit drinking. And then I got pregnant with twins. And I didn’t get really any kind of proper help. I just, was like, I had a bad night. And I was like, I’m just not going to drink again. I’m not going to do that. I don’t want to.

Casey McGuire Davidson  24:28

When she was 2 and a half years old was that right? When she was 2 and a half years old.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  24:32

I went trick or treating and I got drunk trick or treating. It’s in it’s in the book. And it was funny because I was like do I talk about that part in the book because it’s not when I actually really quit drinking, but I really was committed to quitting drinking. I got drunk with like some neighborhood friends, and nobody else did. And it was one of those things where like I couldn’t remember For what happened the next day, and I was like, this is awful. And this is not the parent I want to be. I do not want to have blackouts hanging out with my kid, you know, and embarrass myself in front of like, other moms. And the whole thing was felt humiliating. We were on foot, just trick or treating in the neighborhood. But I, I went to a couple of like recovery meetings, I was kind of serious, but not that serious, you know anything about like, I didn’t, I didn’t do anything really about except for kind of set my intention that I don’t want to drink anymore. And then I got pregnant with twins. And then I had to, and then I didn’t drink through that pregnancy. So, when I had my twins, I was like, Oh, why didn’t drink for that whole pregnancy, which was they came a little early, like one month early. So, let’s just say that was like eight months, plus another like month or two before that. So, like, now, like, it’s been almost a year, and I didn’t drink. So obviously, I’m fine. And I’m not an alcoholic. And thank God, because now I really need to drink because I got three, I got babies and a toddler, basically, yeah.

So, I’m blogging and I’m drinking. And if you know anything about alcoholism, which I think you do, it’s progressive. When I started drinking, again, I was off to the races, I was like I went from, I’m just going to have like, a beer to I’m just going to have like, two drinks, I’m just going to have a couple of drinks tonight. And then I started them trying to moderate. And then for those, I would say, a solid 18 months, it was me trying to manage and control my drinking, it was like, I don’t want to have to quit drinking. But gosh, I’m really starting to feel dependent. And I was starting to feel like I couldn’t take a night off, I was starting to realize that by five o’clock, I’m really rationalizing that I’m making a lot of promises, I don’t want to, I’m not going to drink anymore. And then I’m doing it. And then I’m trying to drink only, only every other day, only on weekends, only on weekdays, I was doing all those games in my head, and I was fighting it and fighting it and fighting it. So, when you know what happened was, I had reached a point where I was like, You know what? Trying to control my drinking is so aggravating. And it’s so hard. And it’s a losing battle. So rather than try this hard to control it, I’m just going to accept that I’m a person who enjoys a cocktail.

Casey McGuire Davidson  27:36

Oh my God, I have seen that with like so many of my clients, but myself to where they’re like, I’m tired of thinking about drinking, and maybe trying to control it is the problem. So therefore, I’m just going to stop trying. And therefore, I won’t think about it and be so obsessed with it. And therefore, it’ll be fine. Like the rationalizations.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  27:58

I thought, it looks like dieting, where you’re like, Well, if you’re on a diet, then you’re thinking about food all the time and feeling deprived. So maybe the idea is just to like, let myself eat as much as I want. And you know, and then I won’t. But whatever that was, yeah, I was like, I’m just going to accept the fact that like, you know what, I’m just a fun person who likes a cocktail. And I like that cocktail, like every night. And I’m just going to have a couple of drinks every night. But I’m just never going to do anything dangerous. I’m going to drink in the house. And you know, so I had this real strong line in the sand. If I’m going to be somebody who drinks every night, I’m bygone I’m going to stay home every night. Yeah, until I didn’t stay home. And I went out somewhere with my with two of my kids. And I was at like the everybody was drinking. I’m not trying to like, judge other people right now at this point, because maybe other people can. And I and many people do have a drink when they’re out somewhere and are able to drive home. I just never had the off switch. So, I never knew I was drunk. So that’s very dangerous.

So, when I’m out somewhere and somebody’s like, have a drink, and then I have that drink, and I’m feeling relaxed and fun. And this is a good time. And I deserve to have a good time. Because like Parenting is hard. And I’m out with 2 of my kids. And I’ve got an 18 month in tow and a three year old, a four year old and we were having fun and then I had another drink and then I had another drink and then I still thought I was fine. Just having fun, just relaxed. And then I drove home. And then my husband was like, you’re drunk. And then I was mad at him for How dare you. Like, I was just out. I had a couple of drinks, my god like, nothing to see here. Leave me alone.

Yeah, when I woke up the next day with a brutal hangover and realized, oh my god like it, I just had such a moment of clarity of like, this is what happened. This is, I could just kind of see it all, I could see the progression, I could see all the rationalization I was doing. And I was like, I’m going to rationalize my way into driving drunk again, and having a car accident, or God forbid, you know, killing somebody, whatever I was like this is really dangerous.

So, having made that decision that I knew was for good, in my mind, you know, and then of course, I had to do a lot of work to make sure that that decision was good. But in my mind, I was like, I have to change. And I can no longer be the person that was like, drinking spot like for me, I’m not going to say other what other people should do. But I had to be honest, if I wasn’t going to be honest with myself, then all was going to be lost. I just knew I would go. I would revert. So, I felt very strongly that if I’m going to continue to blog, and I was known for being really honest about how hard it was, how hard parenting was, and how, you know, the struggles that I had.

So, I thought, there, there’s no way that I can just write. It’s a lie. That’s how I felt I felt like I was going to be lying by omission to not admit that I’ve made this decision. Now, was I ready to, like, tell the world that I’ve driven drunk? No, I was not because that was, that was a bridge too far at that point. I mean, it had been a few days. But I felt I owed it to my readers, many of whom I felt, also relied on alcohol, and also thought drinking what I had, I felt like I owed it to them to say, like, I can’t, that I’m not going to drink anymore. Yeah.

Casey McGuire Davidson 

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Casey McGuire Davidson  31:51

Yeah. I think that incredible. And I have to say that it made a huge impression on me, even though it took me I don’t know, three and a half years later, till I stopped for the first time. And even four years after that toy I stopped eight years ago. So, I obviously had read all your books. I had loved them. I gifted them. I was like, bought in. And it was not your fault that I drink like that. Like I was on board way before I just was like, Oh, yes. This like, she gets me This is awesome. And also, like, I’m not the only one like this is for real.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  32:40

And yet you?

Casey McGuire Davidson  32:42

Yeah, I know. Right? I think there are a lot of women listening to this who are like, Yup, but then, okay, my son was six months old. And I somehow found the book drinking a love story by Carolyn nap.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  32:57

Oh, I just wrote, I just wrote this thing where I mentioned that as like one of my favorite books.

Casey McGuire Davidson  33:02

But it was, and to the point where I was, so I desperately didn’t want my husband to know how worried I was about my drinking. Because first, I didn’t want to stop. And second, I didn’t want him watching me. Right. He knew I drank a ton. But I was just like, I don’t want him to be my parent. And every time I open up a second bottle of wine on a Tuesday, like what the fuck. And so, I would read it on my Kindle. And then every time I finished reading it, I would open like, 5 more books. So, it’d be pushed down in my queue in case he like, randomly picked up my Kindle, which like, is so paranoid, and never would happen. And that from the first chapter, the first paragraph, she was talking, I mean, there’s a woman with red wine glass on the cover, I was a red wine girl. And like, it was like, I fell in love. And because, you know, this thing was going to bring me down, I had to stop. And so, it was everything in there was so close to home for me. I like, got out a word doc. And like, went to the office, my son’s 6 months old and typed up this thing, title that someone something else, and no one could find it. I mean, I was ridiculous. And was like, I think I have a problem with alcohol. This is bad. I need to stop. And then literally, two days later, I came back to the Word doc. And over the top was like just kidding. Nothing to see here. Like, it was so messed up.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  34:38

Yeah, I relate. I mean, there were many, many times that I remember writing in a journal like you from years before, just like, oh my gosh, I’m so drunk. I wonder if I need to stop drinking. Like lots of little clues.

Casey McGuire Davidson  34:54

Yeah, but then in that same office, I think a year later so it was already In the back of my head like this is not good, even though I was giving away. naptime is the new Happy Hour and fully rationalizing this and drinking with all my friends with their kids. And then I saw the article, I went down, got my cup of coffee in the coffee shop under my office and saw on the New York Times the story about you, and it was like heroin, a cocktail mom cocktail.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  35:31

I should know that the title to heroin of cocktail moms sobers up or something like that.

Casey McGuire Davidson  35:34

Yes, yes. And, yep, that’s exactly it. And I bought the paper, and was like, Holy shit, because I knew you. I knew your books. I was like, right, bro. Like, obviously, that’s what I thought like hope. Right? And I went up to my office, and I found the article online. And I freaking post, like, copied and pasted it into my word, Doc. And then I drank for another four years, right?

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  36:05

What happened? What was your bottom?

Casey McGuire Davidson  36:08

Okay, the first time, I, two times. The first time, I was really worried about I was angry. And I was upset. And I was like, felt resentful, even though I had this really good life and this adorable son. And I just felt overwhelmed. And I was mad at my husband, I felt like he was like, you know, would rather spend time with other people than me and go out with other friends, which of course, like I was, like, passed out on the couch every night. I’m like, What the hell? Why doesn’t he want to spend time with me, and I got in a fight with my husband, which I don’t remember what it was about. And we were not fighter fighters. And I somehow went to sleep with my 5 year old because I didn’t want to sleep in the bed with my husband and passed out.

And I woke up. This is a weak day. And my husband was standing over me and looked so sad and brought me a cup of coffee and was like, I don’t understand what’s happening with us. I told you that I wouldn’t do whatever it was he was doing the night before. And I didn’t even remember what the fight was about, like, whatever he told me, he was going to stop doing. I had no recollection. And I was just like, Oh, shit. So, I got a therapist, I looked it up. I very specifically chose one that specialized in addiction, and anxiety. And then I went in there and was like, Oh, my God, my husband, my job, my kid, my boss. I need help with my anxiety and overwhelm. And by the way, I drink a bottle of wine at night. And he immediately was like, let’s talk about your drinking. And I was like, no, let’s talk about my boss. But he was sober. He had been in a 12 step program. And so, he encouraged me to go to one. And then I freaking found the BFB. Like, I was following your blog, which is the Booze Free Brigade, which is a group. Yeah, started right. Oh, I don’t get drunk Friday. Yeah, yeah. Tell me about this. Oh,

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  38:18

Oh, just that. So, I was still I was blogging now all the time about not drinking now. And my husband was like, You got to be careful. Like, you. You’re all you talk about now as being is sobriety like, it might get on peoples nerves. Well, I don’t know if he said it like that. But he was like, you know, you’re going to your like, rebranding yourself as like the sober person, which I was like, You know what, maybe you’re right. So, I decided I’m going to make, I’m just going to on Fridays, every Friday, I’ll talk about alcoholism, or my drinking or not drinking.

And then, I started getting friends to be guest bloggers on my site and tell their story. And I called it, “Don’t Get Drunk Friday”. One of those friends, my friend Jane and I were like, all these people are trying to talk to each other in the comments of the Don’t Get Drunk Friday blog. So, this was like early days of kind of message boards and stuff. And we were like, we should start a message board, a Yahoo message board, where people can go join it, and then talk to each other.

Casey McGuire Davidson  39:20

I started when the Yahoo message board was going.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  39:24

Yeah, so we just we started that together. And we both and we both were like letting people in or whatever. And that went on for a few years. And people found each other. And then somebody started it on Facebook. Somebody made a Facebook group of that group. And everybody, you know, because Facebook started like around I mean, I joined in Oh, 9. Yeah, so it was still early days. But anyway, somebody made it a Facebook group and it still exists.

Casey McGuire Davidson  39:53

I’m in it. I am still in it. I know them that I was interviewing you and I cut and pasted something I found in that Toronto Star about how the group I mean, it is thriving, still, and I cut and pasted about, like the origins of the BFB or like that you had started it. And all these people were like, oh my god, I had no idea.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  40:18

Yeah, I mean, because it was so many years ago. Yeah, like, I think I, we started that group started, like in my first year of service. I mean, hadn’t been sober that long.

Casey McGuire Davidson  40:30

It’s amazing. It is still like one of my favorite places on the internet. The people there are so kind. I think there’s like 2500 people in there right now. And wow, thank you. You shouldn’t pop in. I’m going to share this episode there.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  40:47

I will. So, you Okay, so you join that group or you go on the yahoo group. This is only your first try it sobriety, right?

Casey McGuire Davidson  40:55

Yes, yeah. So, I went on, I was in the yahoo group. And then pretty soon thereafter, it became the Facebook group, which was helpful, because it was so hard to follow the yahoo group, it was just there’s so many posts and email, I got them all on email.

So, I joined Facebook. And I remember sitting in my office, and being so terrified, it was going to somehow show up on my public page, right with my bosses, and my mother and my coworkers. And I put a picture of me and my five year old son, he was this little redhead, on there. And I just was like, I’m X years old. I have a five year old, I live here, I work here. And I’m terrified that I drink too much. I drink a bottle of wine a night. I’m like hungover every day, I keep trying to moderate I don’t want to stop drinking. And like, posted it freaked out, like went to my public page and like, refresh 17 times to make sure it wasn’t there. And then had to go to a meeting. And I came back. And there were like, 28 comments from people who are like, I’m just like, you, it’s going to be okay. I was a white wine girl. Like, I know how you feel your son is beautiful. And I like started crying. I was just oh my god, you know?

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  42:23

Yeah. And then what happened.

Casey McGuire Davidson  42:27

And then I went to my therapist, and he encouraged me to go to a 12 step program, and I really didn’t want to, but I was sort of, like, Bucket List ever thought I’d do this, you know, trying to make a joke of it all. And I found a woman on the BFB, who lived in Seattle and was lawyer and was my agent. She was 4 months sober. And was like, I’ll take you. And so, I went to my first 12 Step meeting. And it was a little weird, like, there was an older, I mean, it was nice, but there was like an older woman with like, little guns on her glasses. Like, who kept getting up and walking around. I was like, uh, and, you know, they gave me a book. And like, I of course, cried because, like, what was happening in my life. And I was glad I had my friend there. But like, it’s so I went through about four months. I went to mostly women’s big book study meetings, which I wonder if that was a bad idea, because I am not religious, and the God stuff like, there’s a lot of God in the first 12 steps. And I got a sponsor, and she told me to get on my knees and pray that my obsession was lifted every day. And I’m like, Oh, holy shit.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  43:42

No, you know, I’m sober. 14 years very involved in my 12 Step groups. I’m still not into the god stuff. Yeah.

Casey McGuire Davidson  43:51

Yeah. And I know everybody’s like, It’s spiritual. I’m like, Really, it’s written like God

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  43:57

was religious at the when they when they started it, and now they’ve of course loose, they tried to loosen it up so that it’s more inclusive, but I know tons of like, atheists, ya know, I know. You. One thing I love about 12 Step is like, there really are no rules. There’s people that want to pretend there’s rules and like, want to tell you what to do. But there’s, there’s no like, no one’s you don’t check in. Like, unless your court order. Do you don’t you don’t? I mean, it’s like, it’s kind of whatever you want to make of it. I look, I look at it as support. Yes. And maybe accountability.

Casey McGuire Davidson  44:33

And I was glad. I was glad it was there. So, I have to say this was almost 11 years ago. And there really was, as far as I could tell, not a lot else out there. Like or at least not a lot of I mean, I had the BFB and then I didn’t know of much else. And so, now, the second time I quit drinking 8 years ago. Go, like, the world had somewhat exploded. By that time, like more people had written blogs and books. There were Sober Coaches.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  45:10

I did Holly. We can. I don’t want to interrupt you by interview you already did. But when you made the decision to go back to it. So that was like, you had another 3 years.

Casey McGuire Davidson  45:24

So, okay, here’s what happened. It’s so much like your story. So, I did it for 4 months. Then I got a full time job again. And it was a big commute. And I was like, Oh, I don’t need this anymore, because I’m sober. And my boss who I’d known for years and had worked with was in AAA, and she had been sober for, like 15 years at my new job. And so, I was like, Oh, I got this. I got accountability. You know, my boss is sober. She knows I’m sober. I talked to her about it. And so, and then I got pregnant. And I didn’t drink for a year. I mean, it’s so similar. I didn’t drink for a year because I was pregnant. And I got to the end of it. And by the way, the whole time, I was trying to do this, like slow shuffle back from like, maybe I overreacted of, you know, like, I don’t really have a prop. It was. So, then I felt so relatable.

Yeah. Oh, my God, right. And I mean, when you’re talking, I was like, Oh, shit, this is me. And so, I got to the end of the year. And of course, I was like, my marriage is better. My anxiety is better. My life’s better. I’m happier and less stressed at work, in no way associating all of that with the fact that I was no longer drinking. I was like, worse. Imagine, it was situational, right? That I was drinking too much. And now I’m better. And so like, two weeks after I had my daughter, I was like, went out to drink, you know, dinner with my husband. I was like, I’ll just have a drink on a date night. I had one I immediately wanted to. So, I had another but then I was like, Whoa, that’s it. And then like, maybe two weeks later, I was like, Oh, it’s a Friday night. Why don’t you pick up a bottle of wine to come home. Within a month, I was back to a bottle of wine or a couple glasses every night. And very quickly, I went back to a bottle of wine a night or more. The whole time, I knew it was a trouble. Like, I was still on the BFB. But I didn’t post because I was so embarrassed. I would go to the grocery store. And because I’d been to local AAES I buy my like, 6 pack of wine because you get the 10% discount. So, it’s like just make sense. You know, I’m putting it in quotes and being sarcastic. It’s no, you’re being smart, right? And then I would go in the light. And I would literally like the bottles wide at the bottom of my cart. Put my fucking bags over it. Corn check behind me who was getting in line in case someone from AAA. I mean, it was. It was ridiculous. Yes. So, I drank to my daughter was 22 months old. And I finally stopped again. But the reason I stopped the second time was like death of 1000 cuts like, my anxiety was off the charts. I tried to moderate, and I couldn’t I woke up with horrible hangovers. I was passing out on the couch. And like, once you stopped drinking for a while, the whole time. I was like I knew. I was like my drinking is unsustainable. This is not situational. It’s the fucking alcohol. And I’m going to have to stop it was just a question of when you know.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  48:39

Yeah, yeah. So, what did you do? Did you go back to a meeting,

Casey McGuire Davidson  48:42

I hired a Sober Coach. I did. I found which. I’m a Sober Coach now. I found this woman Belle. She was had this blog called, Tired Of Thinking About Drinking. She lived in Paris, and she had 100-Day Challenge. So, the idea was don’t drink for 100 days. And if you sign up with her in her program, you got to sober pen pal for a year. And I freaking was a Gold Star Girl. I wrote her five times a week for like two years straight. And I was in the BFB I posted again on day five I was so embarrassed because like they knew I had a year and was like all rah rah. And then, I like, went radio silent for 2 years. And I was like, Oh, I’m on day 5. And like, of course, they welcomed me back with like so much love and I posted their freaking daily for like what they had this 30 60 90 Day Challenge. I was there day 40. You know day 442. What guy was like, ridiculous, but that’s how I stopped, and I just kept going.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  49:51

Yeah, when I when I first got sober. Like for real for real for ill 14 years ago. I at yeah Every day I counted days, I mean, I was so sad when I almost had a year because I was like, well, now what happens when it’s a year, then I don’t, then I don’t get all the claps and, and like, you know, accolades for another whole year, like, because with the beginning when you’re in a 12 step program, you’re like 30 days, in when your first 30 days, you’re a newcomer. So, you can constantly raise your hand and say, you’re new and people are like, you know, you’re just noticeable. And people come over to you and they offer your phone, their phone number, and they, you know, they like attack you. They, they, because sober people love to help other sober people. Oh, yeah. looted.

I get super excited when somebody’s new, you know, and that’s how we stay sober as we help another person stay sober. So, you know, I didn’t really understand that at the beginning, I was just like, wow, these people really want me to stay sober, you know. So, I thought, oh, every day every so the first 30 days, then you get your next 30, then you have 60 days, and you get to raise your hand for that and come up and get a chip. And then you have 90 days and people are like, going crazy for you. You know, I thrive on that kind of thing. Oh, yeah.

Casey McGuire Davidson  51:14

Like, positive reinforcement and like attention. And yeah, I know, like

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  51:20

some my Facebook posts, I like claps for my sobriety days, like I eat it up, you know, so then you get like six months, then you get nine months. And that’s what I’m saying is then I was like, oh, no, like I get, I’m going to have this birthday. And people are going to be so happy for me.

Casey McGuire Davidson  51:41

But then what’s going to happen between year one and year two, you’re like, 16 months that really, you know, whatever you have.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  51:46

So highly, I had a lot of like friends by then I had, you know, my, we call it, I call it my posse. And I had a bunch of girls, and we were all, you know, doing the deal together. And that really helped. You know, I had my regular meetings and my go to fat burger after my meeting and hang with my girls and like life started happening and, you know, things started to feel better. And but I always stayed close. You know? I’m not I didn’t I definitely didn’t do it perfectly at the beginning. I you know, I did it perfectly. I didn’t drink. But there were a lot of times, you know, I don’t want to make it seem like, like looking back there. Were still those thoughts. I have a lot of that like, feeling sorry for myself. And maybe this was a mistake and comparing my story to other people’s stories and like, God, like okay, yes, I drove drunk. Like, I know, that’s terrible. But like, Look at this guy just had four DUIs? Like, yeah, of course he’s here. But how do I don’t fit in here?

Casey McGuire Davidson  52:54

Like, I’m like a responsible mom like, yeah, or being like, Well, that was just bad luck. Or I mean, in your book, you and you didn’t rationalize it to your husband at all, but you were like, Why didn’t eat anything?

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  53:15

And maybe x and maybe y and like, she was pouring too many of the of the martinis or I mean, yeah, a million times brain wants to protect yourself and your drinking and your ego.

Casey McGuire Davidson  53:19

Like, yeah, yeah, well, so. Okay, I’m jumping ahead because I know your story. So, well. But will you tell people about like, The New York Times, and Katie Couric and like,

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  53:34

Oh, okay. All right. So, I saw that. I made that blog post. This is just about why I started having all these things happen at the beginning, which is crazy. So, I have this blog post. Well, this New York Times, parenting columnist named Lisa Belkin wrote an article about me somehow, she saw so my blog was read it. This might sound like, not a small amount of people, but I only had like maybe 500 people reading my blog. It was not even 1000s It was a small readership. But I don’t know how she found it. But this parenting writer who had a parenting column called the mother lode.

Casey McGuire Davidson  54:18

Well, she might have been on your blog, right? Was she following you? Possibly.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  54:22

I didn’t recognize her name. So, what happened is, I was it was like, 10 days now I was like, sober 10 days. And I had done it doesn’t really matter. All of a sudden, I started getting these calls and these emails asking me to do TV appearances. And I was like, what? Like, how do people know that? I stopped drinking. It’s been 10 days. So, I got a call. Now. I had been on the Dr. Phil show before, so a Dr. Phil producer had gotten a hold of me. And I was like, I don’t understand what’s happening. How are these people fight how Do these people know? So, I googled myself. And I found out that there was a column in the New York Times, not the article that you read, but just somebody wrote a column without consulting me without saying, I’m writing about you quitting drinking. It kind of It sucked.

Casey McGuire Davidson  55:15

And I still got “uncool”. I mean, I’m not in the media. Like, that’s not okay. I don’t think it’s cool. Because usually they’d ask you to comment, right?

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  55:25

You would think she would have reached out to me and been like, wow, this is really interesting. You decided to quit drinking? I’d like to make a column about it.

Do you want to comment, right, you?

Casey McGuire Davidson  55:33

And you would have been like, no, please don’t do that.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  55:37

I absolutely would have said, Please don’t, even though I mean, she basically outed me, even though you could say I outed myself. But I didn’t get it.

Casey McGuire Davidson  55:47

Like, telling your girlfriends or something. Right. Or like, I don’t know what.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  55:53

Yeah, yeah, kind of. So, I felt very embarrassed. I felt like now all of these strangers know this about me. And also, the comments were horrendous, like on her column, like, once I found the column and read it, and was just like, and she excerpted my blog. So yes, I, I tell I have a whole chapter in my book, and I call it outed, that tells this story, but basically, she used my words in her blog, which I was like, kind of lazy. But anyway, I’m all these people were like, Oh, this woman never should have had kids. Like, she’s horrible. Mind you. I hadn’t even admitted the part about driving drunk. Yeah. So, these were people that were just mad that I said that I had a drinking problem, and I drink too much. And I’m quitting. And I quit.

Casey McGuire Davidson  56:42

Yeah, I was like, it was a poem that I stopped, or whatever. Yeah, yeah. That’s why it’s so important to tell people who get it like in the Bf, because like, they don’t judge you for being the worst mom ever. They’re just like, Yeah, of course, you got addicted to this addictive substance. And you are so fucking brave, to like, look at that, and try to stop. And so most people are like, so judgy.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  57:11

So judgy. And most of those people were not of the year so brave. There were a few of those. But a lot of them. But this is just the internet. It’s toxic, you know? So, I kind of go into not hiding but like, I’m like, I don’t respond to any. That’s how all these media people found it because it was in the New York Times. So, that’s why I was getting all these calls. So, I refused. I was like, Absolutely not. I’ve been sober 10 days. I have nothing to share with anybody. But the New York Times reached out to my book publishing company, a different like an actual New York Times writer, and she told them, I want to do an interview with her. And I will make sure that it’s like, fit, like a balance. I just wanted to, I want to give her a chance to tell her story. And this was now I’d been so for like 4 months. So, I just thought, you know, I’m already outed, I might as well be able to see my side on a bigger platform. You know what I mean? Like, I don’t want to just be what somebody else’s interpretation.

So, I was like, Okay, I’ll be interviewed. So, she interviewed me. And I didn’t at the time, I was like, making, I was still trying to be funny. Like, it was a serious interview. But at the very end of it, I was like, hey, but like, I could still. I made a joke about, but Vicodin is still like, and I, of course, I wasn’t taking Vicodin. I would thought I was being funny. I was sober for months. I didn’t know that you can’t make a joke about that. And so, people were like, Oh my God, she’s probably going to be popping pills. And I was like, Oh, my Lord, whatever. But I did get a bunch of emails or like Facebook messages from women. And I was like, oh, like, and I did not go like, Oh, let me help you. I was just like, yeah, I get it. I feel for you. I’m right there view. Like, it’s hard. But you know, so then after that, I got people reached out like I did Dr. Oz, and I did a couple of TV appearances.

Then when I was 9 months sober, I got asked to do 2020 And I was interviewed by Elizabeth Vargas. So, each of these things, so many women were reaching out to me and saying thank you for sharing your story and, and relating, and I felt like I felt not like it wasn’t that I enjoyed the attention at all because I didn’t you know, it’s like negative attention in a way. Right?

You’re getting attention for something you feel humiliated about. Yeah. But I also knew that I was helping people and the way that I felt like telling the truth, my truth about having a baby and that I didn’t fall in love at first sight and that I didn’t, you know, care about my baby’s first birthday that much and all these things that I was admitting that other women were like, Oh my God, thank God because I thought I was the only one. I was like, well, maybe, maybe me feeling humiliated is a small price to pay for women to see themselves because at the time I there was no it was not there was no like sober Zeitgeist at the time. It was still, like very secretive and kind of attack a weird thing that I was saying. The Roselle day was still going very strong at the beginning

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:00:36

still going strong. I’d work out with women and they’re wearing Rosie all day. T shirts. And I’m a little bit like you. But yeah, I don’t say that. Because I used to have those. I mean, I didn’t own that one. But I would have.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:00:50

Right, right, right. I mean, it was an odd thing. Because, you know, I wasn’t telling people that I drove drunk, because I had a lot of excuses for that. In my head. and

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:01:05

It was like, Well, if I say that, then required to tell everyone, I’m not it and not required.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:01:09

It’s my personal story. Also, in my mind, I was like, well, not required. It’s not lying. I’m still, I’m telling a lot of things. I’m just omitting that one thing. In my mind. I was like, women are going to hear that. And they’re going to be like, Well, I would never do that. So, therefore, I must.

Yeah, problem. That was my rationalization. So cut to 4 years later, I hadn’t done much. I had kind of long since stopped doing TV appearances about quitting drinking. But I got asked to do Katie Couric talk show. And at first I said no. And I was like, I just don’t want to keep being known for this. But they were like, Listen, you know, we’re going to have on, we just want to talk about the mommy drinking culture. And I was like, okay, but you’re not going to get what you think you want out of it. Because I’m not like trying to reinstate prohibition.

Like I, I believe that many women, including Moms, don’t drink alcohol quickly. And that’s great for them and they should be able to drink. Like, let’s stop judging everything people are doing. And you know, and I still believed that the drinking the mommy drinking stuff is also like how I wrote about it, like kind of a US being rebellious and going like we’re still fun. And we’re still funny. And I don’t believe that every woman that wears a Rosé all day t-shirt is drinking Rosé all day.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:02:38

No, I don’t either. Although I feel like all those jokes. Encourage binge drinking. You know, like some of the stuff that like, you know, you see stuff that like dish towels that are like, I’m not slurring. I’m speaking in cursive, you know, and I’m just, kind of, like you.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:03:03

Yeah. But what I kind of came to realize, too, is that a lot of women that are like making all these drinking jokes are kind of like I was except minus the drinking problem. Because I would be around these women that are like, let’s grab a bottle of wine. Before that. This was when I was sober. A lot of moms at my like my kids elementary school, they talked a good game about how much they all loved wine. And then they would have like, a half a glass of wine and be like, Oh, I’m good. I have to, you know, drive. And I was like, everybody said, responsible? Like, you know, so. My, I guess my point is like, do I think it’s great that we advertise alcohol as a solution to new moms? Genuine anxiety and lack of support? No, like, Would it be better if we encouraged women to find actual support, or we helped women or we were each other’s village? Sure. But I also don’t necessarily think that like, we’re not allowed to make jokes about drinking.

So, my position was, I haven’t done a 180 and I’m not going to sit there and judge women who have a glass of wine, I’m but I am willing to tell my story.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:04:18

And you’re also not judging women who struggle with alcohol, right? That’s the great thing worse, you get it and you understand it, and you understand how it happens. And you don’t think that the worst people in the world the way like the judgment is the issue, in addition to a bunch of other stuff, you know, right?

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:04:38

Yeah. So, so in my mind, I’m like, Okay, I’ll just do I’ll do this show, but I told them straight up. I’m not going to, like I’m not going to sit there and say, don’t try to pit me against somebody. Yeah, because you’re going to have this woman who had a face book group called like, I forgot now, but it was like Mommy needs one. wind or something, you know? And I was like, I’m not going to, oh, that’s fine. But I’m not going to I’m not your girl, if you think that’s what I’m going to do. And they were like, no, no, no, that’s fine. You just tell your story. Well, I had done this. Like, I had done this show called, listen to your mother. And I had told the story about driving drunk. And it was the only time I’d ever sort of publicly told that story. Well, I didn’t know. I genuinely didn’t know that they had recorded it. And it was on YouTube. So, I get this call from a producer, like, a couple of nights before I was flying out to New York to do the show. And the producers like, hey, we found this thing. And she tells me what it is. And like, my heart dropped, and she was like, were you told this story about drinking and driving? And Katie wants to ask you about it. And I was like, Oh, absolutely not. No. And she was like, I really, she really thinks it’s going to help people. And you know, I mean, you did? You know, it is on YouTube. And I was like, Well, I didn’t know it was and I don’t feel comfortable talking about that on national television. And no, I’m not going to talk about it. And I said, now I’d done a lot of TV at this point.

So, I was not like, I’m not trying to like, brag, but I’m saying I wasn’t like impressed that I was going on Katie Couric. I was only like half into it anyway.

So, I was like, if that’s what’s going to happen, I would rather, I don’t. I’m not coming. And she was like, so she was like, no, no, no, no, we please come like, we won’t ask you about it. Well, then Katie asked me about it. And I felt sabotaged. It was terrible. It was a horrible feeling. But I was like, What am I what? I’m not going to lie. Like, yeah, I’m not going to. So, it was a very uncomfortable moment. And I felt, you know, all the feelings of just I felt exposed and scared and embarrassed. And I was just like, yeah. Yeah, I did that. And then I said, and then I, that was my moment. And I haven’t had a drink since which was true. And I had been like, like, four years at that point. Yeah. And I felt I was so mad afterwards.

Casey, I was like, freaking out. I was really pissed. And my publicist was there because I was doing a show at the time, I was on a TV show. And my then publicist for the TV show, it was a show for, for parents for moms. It was on Nickelodeon, Nick at Night. Yeah. I, the publicist didn’t really understand what had just happened. And she wasn’t even upset. Like, I was like, That wasn’t supposed to happen. And I wasn’t going to say that. And she was like, whatever, it’s fine. I felt like oh, my God, I’m going to get kicked off this TV show, you know, but like, nothing bad happened, basically. And what I thought was going to be just I don’t know what I thought I thought I was going to get the TV show taken away. I thought parents, you know, people were going to just be judging so harshly. But what I got was a bunch of moms again, going, Oh, my God, I I relate to your story. Really a problem too. And that was very ended up in retrospect, being very freeing.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:08:30

Because Wow, this out their story, you were terrified that people like you would be found out kind of thing. I felt

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:08:37

like I had a secret. Yeah. But you still got to be pissed, right? Like, I Oh, I was just Katie Couric socks. She just like, I mean, I didn’t want to talk about that. And she was like, exposing me and it wasn’t. You don’t I mean, like, why?

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:08:57

Yeah.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:08:58

What’s the reason for that?

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:09:01

So, did you? Cause of course, I don’t. Like, I know a ton of your story. And I followed it. And I didn’t know about the Katie Couric thing. Did you have any hesitation about putting that in this book and DRUNK-ISH? And because you’re obviously doing a lot of press for it? Like, did you want to bring that up again? And, you know, all that crap, because it’s in your intro? Right? When I was reading it, I was like, Oh, okay. I mean, in your bio, right for the book.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:09:34

The thing is, I feel like it’s all the My story is there’s like a progression to the quitting drinking. You know, the book is basically I made it into kind of two parts.

So, it’s, you know, what happened, what it was like, and my childhood and all these things that I think people can see the writing on the wall, the addiction, the food addiction started thing with, you know, feeling obsessed with sugar. Like, all the ways that I couldn’t see until later that I could look back and go, Oh, look, I had a father, a biological father who was a pill addict his whole life. I had issues with food from a really young age like all of these things. I could go back, because I think when people write books, when they’ve only been sober a couple years, it’s a little tougher, but I had a lot of sobriety under my belt. A lot of 14 years, right, like, right, by the time they’re looking.

Yeah. I mean, by the time the book comes out, I’ll be almost 15 years sober. So, I’ve had a long time of doing the work of looking at my life and looking at the things that have happened, that I could, I could look back and see all that. So, once I got sober, the next part of the book, I felt was unraveling, that shame, and embarrassment and getting to like, the freedom, right. So, part of that I felt was, how I got outed and how different ways that I had accountability in different ways that like, and that was part I felt like that was part of, for lack of a better word, the journey in sobriety. It’s like, holding on to that secret, and thinking like, well, if only people don’t know about this part of it, I’ll be safe. And then having people find out that part of it, I felt like was a big moment where my sobriety opened up even a little bit more, because I have less, I was less hiding.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:11:38

Well, and you have this big secret, and it’s out there, and then the world doesn’t end, you know, and that’s a really, right, it was a relief.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:11:47

And I didn’t, I don’t think I did many other appearances or talked about it that much. But, you know, years went by, and, you know, there’s a lot of like, 12 Step stuff in the book, but part of that is not really that I’m promoting being in a 12 step program. It’s that some of the work of the 12 steps help, like helps me some of those tools like apologizing, like, learning to see my part. Yeah, it’s so important to my sobriety. And that, like, regardless of whether you’re doing that work in a 12 step program, like that, to me the book is like, like looking like the last chapter, which I call sorry about your bachelorette party. And this is, you know, was apologizing to this friend of mine, who I like fucked up her bachelorette party. But for years, I held on to like, Oh, my God, what, what’s the big deal? Like, it would be ridiculous if she was mad about this. And I got drunk. And like, left her to dinner with like, a married guy. I mean, my behavior was bad. It was bad. But for so long, I was defiant, and like defensive of ways that I acted and like that was a fluke. And here’s all the reasons for that. And he was separated, and he was, you know what I mean? And like, it’s not, it wasn’t until getting sober that I realized, like, part of staying sober for me had to be like, just taking responsibility. Yeah. Yeah, my hotel.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:13:31

Oh, my God, oh, my sister’s like wedding. I was super young, and I just broken up with my boyfriend. And then I got Bell’s Palsy, which if anyone doesn’t know that I was like, 25. In theory, it’s stress related, but also just like, you get a sinus infection. Like half of my face was paralyzed. I looked like Mary Jo, but Fuko, you know, nobody knows. You. I do. And that’s me.

Holy shit. If I knew I was going to get Bell’s Palsy. I wouldn’t have been so quick to break up with my college boyfriend, like, what the hell. And so, then I was the maid of honor in my sister’s wedding. And I was way too young to be there. She should have chosen her best friend or something. And I brought my 2 best friends because I had no date. And I freaking got so dry. I mean, I looked horrible. In the pictures. Half my face was paralyzed. Like, it was humiliating. And so, I got so drunk that I like jumped up on the stage to like, give a toast, was going to hug her afterwards, like trip, slid across the dance floor on my knees, and then tried to like pop up and play it off. Like, I meant to do it. And then at the end of the night, I like was trying to convince my best friend’s to, like, go swimming in the river by where she was kidding me. And they were like, you’re going to fucking die like that river is fouled, like, come on. We could do it.

I woke up the next word. Be like, so hungover. Didn’t remember decent part of it. You know when people tell you, like, I didn’t remember wanting to swim in the river, and like my whole family was there – like, my grandparents, my great uncle’s like, I was just like, holy shit. That I was like, Well, my boyfriend broke up, or I broke up with him and I felt all the like, right wedding. Where are these people so uptight? It was beyond inappropriate.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:15:26

Was your sister mad? Oh, yeah, who wouldn’t be mad?

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:15:31

Right. And like, I also planned the worst bachelorette party ever. I decided to take her to a strip club, and I didn’t realize it was a gay Strip Club for Men. Like, I just should not. I mean, you know, buddy should pick a 25 year old to be your maid of honor and a wedding. And like it’s, you have no idea. Yeah, it was terrible.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:15:51

Oh, my God, that is so funny. And relatable. Yeah.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:15:58

Well, is it relatable to a lot of people try to distributed a river. People?

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:16:02

Well, people that end up sober. A lot of us have these kinds of stories.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:16:09

Isn’t that I love sober people, because they have the best stories, right?

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:16:12

I always say like, I don’t necessarily like people that just don’t drink because they just never really liked the taste of alcohol. Like I would if you don’t drink it should be because you’ve drank way too much. Yeah. Yeah.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:16:24

Oh, my God. I know. Like, I have friends who like I’m always like, Did you drink because you seem so like, responsible? And they’re like, oh my god, I met this musician who was famous back in the day. And we went to Paris for two months. And I’m like, really? Write radical? Well, so what’s next for you wrote this book. And you’re, by the way, you’re going to help so many people and you helped me, and Carolyn Knapp helped me like that. Those books are so brave, and you don’t know that like, a decade later, someone’s hiding this book on their Kindle being like, holy shit for the first time. You know?

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:17:10

Well, you know the book that helped me even though I read it way but well, Carolyn naps book. But also Agustin burrows book dry. That’s what I love that book. One of the first books I read about alcoholism. That was so laugh out loud funny to me. You know, I could relate to that. I was like, oh my god, I have thought that way. Even though I was nowhere near getting sober. I just thought he was a hilarious writer. And I have revisited that book so many, many times. And now I just see how much I relate to it. But yeah, that was a book that helped me when I got sober. I reread the book from cover to cover. And yeah, I mean, that’s what I’m hoping.

I’m hoping that this book is something that helps people, I’m hoping that my honesty while embarrassing, because there are so many. I mean, I, you know, I teach. I teach memoir writing is one of the main things that I do. And I feel like if you’re not making yourself uncomfortable, and exposing things about yourself, then you’re not doing your job writing a memoir. So, I always have to just forget that anybody’s going to read it. And like, tell the secrets. So, I’m hoping that me humiliating myself a bit in this book, and telling some things that like, are not like, really proper to talk about or tell, helps people, I mean, that will help people who’ve done that or done something similar or feel like they’re heading that way. And being like, Oh, she was there. And it’s okay. And she got out of it. And she’s happier now.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:18:34

And like, you know, and I wanted to also, though, talk about the real way that my brain work after I quit drinking, because I never want to give the impression that I was immediately like, blah, Best decision of my life.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:18:53

I feel great now, like, no problem, nothing to see here. Like, no, it was a process. And it was miserable at times, and it was hard. And I want people to understand that if they’re newly sober. They’re trying to do this, and they have anxiety, like so did I, you know, because a lot of times at the beginning of my sobriety, I thought everybody else was doing sobriety better than me, you know that like, and that’s, that’s like a recurrent theme with me. It’s like when I was a new parent, I was like, I don’t know what I’m doing. Everybody’s doing it better than me. People are judging me, and I felt that way. You know, I always feel that way. I feel that way about writing. I’m like, Oh, I’m not a great writer, like other people are so much that way.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:19:43

When I became like a coach, I became a life coach. And then I decided to work with women in sobriety and went back to, you know, get that expertise, but I also when I started a podcast, like even on the BFB I was like, What are we People going to think who’ve been sober longer than me like who the hell am I to like start that, you know, like that is so normal. I think

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:20:10

I feel that way about a lot of like old timers people that have been sober like 30 years, they’re probably going to think it’s very annoying that I’m writing a book. But all I can do is write about my experience. I’m not trying to teach anybody anything in this book, it’s, that’s why I told my publisher, I would like to write it as a memoir, sort of like I wrote sippy cups, you know about my experience, it’s not going to it’s an anti-advice book, I’m not telling anybody to do. This is like, my, what happened to me and how I felt, and if you can relate to the feelings and feel less alone, then I’ve done my job, then I’ve done what I told will relate to your feelings, and I think, just my two cents on the old timer, because trust me, I felt, I feel that too.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:20:51

And I’m like, who’s going to, you know, but I always tell people, it is sometimes way more helpful to someone in early sobriety to hear from someone at 4 months, or 6 months, or even 2 months than it is to hear from me at 8 years. They’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you’re fucking happy. I get it, you know where they be. But if someone’s like, I’m at 40 days, and it completely fucking sucked. But here’s the one thing that I’m really proud of, then that’s more relatable to them because it’s more achievable.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:21:33

I agree. In fact, when I go to meetings, I like to I like to be around people that are brand new, I don’t want I don’t I don’t get anything from people that have been sober a million years that are just quoting the big book, and you know, all about the gratitude.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:21:55

Who cares? I want to hear from somebody tell the same stories all the time, right? Yes. Like, Yeah, I’ve heard yours. No, I’m terrible.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:22:01

Yeah, but it’s, you know, what, it’s helpful to hear it’s helpful to go like, Oh, my gosh, that was me. Not that long ago. It feels like people that are struggling, you know, what, two more things I wanted to mention. Because I’ve kept you way, way, way too long. But I love, love talking to you.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:22:11

Okay. Elizabeth Vargas interviewed you, before she admitted she was struggling with drinking. And before she went to rehab, by the way, she has a fantastic book between breaths about anxiety, but and drinking. But how was that? Did you know what I mean?

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:22:37

So yeah, I mean, I, I believe the timeline, though, was like, I think it was two years after I was on her show that she came out as an alcoholic. And I was like, wow, because she was such a great interviewer to me, she was so locked in and interested. And part of me was like, Is she really, really good journalist? Or is she way too interested in this topic, you know, and it was only when she came out as an alcoholic that I was like, Oh, okay. She was soaking up. Stories.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:23:14

He was from reading her book really, really struggling at that point, you know?

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:23:19

Yeah. Yeah. She was. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, and then, and then she relapsed. And then she went back to rehab. And I felt, I felt terrible. Yeah. But

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:23:31

I bet you helped her just by having your story out there and having her interview you, you know what I mean?

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:23:38

So, the author, Mary Karr, who wrote the booklet, who’s, like a best-selling author, and she’s written a lot of books. And she’s, so she was also interviewed, the same time I was. So, I think we were interviewed in a row. And then I found out later that Elizabeth Vargas went out to lunch with Mary Karr after the interview, and I was so bummed.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:24:03

Oh, you’re kidding. And she didn’t invite, you know, oh, my god.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:24:08

Mary had been sober like 20 years, and I’ve been sober nine months at but still, I was like, if she’s going to go to lunch with somebody to like, pick their brain or whatever. Like, of course, she picked like the best-selling app.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:24:22

Oh, my God. Well, does every sober person, like read every single Quizlet book out there? Because I feel like I have. I’ve read every freaking book out there. And I love them.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:24:33

I mean, it’s a great genre.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:24:35

I know you interviewed Laura Cathcart Robbins and my god her book is so good. Is really brave. stash. I will link to it in the show notes. Yeah, because it’s so brave and so relatable and amazing and I was so psyched to meet her in person. She came up to Seattle to give a book talk about stash and it was after I’d enter Beat her on the podcast and it was so cool.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:25:03

That’s awesome. Yeah. Okay, so

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:25:06

I’ve taken like way, way, way more time. Thank you so much. Truly, this has been on my bucket list to talk to you forever.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:25:14

This was really fun. This is like my most fun podcast. So cool.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:25:19

Cool. Well, I’m sure you’ll have a ton more. Tell everyone how they can follow you find the book, all the good stuff. Watch your listen your podcast.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:25:28

So, I do a podcast called, For Crying Out Loud. That’s every Tuesday and Friday. Everywhere you find podcasts, with my co-host, Lynette Carolla and we talk about parenting, and I talk a lot about sobriety there too.

My website, stefaniewildertaylor.com. You can find everything you can find my classes on there if you want to take a memoir writing class.

Yeah, and the book DRUNK-ISH is out everywhere.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:25:57

Yeah. A lot of sober people or newly sober people.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:26:09

Take your memoir writing class, because I feel like that’s something that a lot of people even if they never want to publish, kind of explore.

Yeah, I get a lot. I get a lot of sober people. I just get a lot of women. It’s only for women, who I’ve just been a lot of people that have always wanted to try writing. And it’s a nice, safe, I keep my classes really small. It’s very loving and encouraging. And I just make it fun, a safe place and a safe place for people to just like it’s tell a little bit of their story, whatever that story is, and I help people figure out what story they have to tell.

So yeah, a lot of times if people are sober. I’m like, Well, tell me why. Let me hear that story.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:26:43

Ya know, I kind of like that. It’s just women too, because I don’t know writing a memoir is very vulnerable.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:26:51

It is. It is. Yeah, yeah.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:26:54

Well, thank you, truly. Thank you.

Stefanie Wilder-Taylor  1:26:56

Thank you so much.