SUMMARY KEYWORDS

drinking, life, coaching, problem, alcohol, goals, coach, people, meetings, feel, behavior, addiction, alcoholic, years, women, realize, happy, Dennis, beliefs, thinking, Alcoholics Anonymous (A.A.), Life Coaching, Recovery Coaching, 12-Step Program, quitting drinking, stop drinking unstuck, move forward, sensitive topic, conversation, right guests, paths to recovery, positive, need, layers of support, different sources, philosophies, practices, approaches, skilled, passionate, benefits of Coaching, recovery, active participant, synergies, look forward, independence, sobriety, mission in life, help others, journey, inner peace, success, important. insights, energy, difference, grow at different levels, different directions, rehab, messed up, change something, enough, pain, changes, feel better, confused, solace, like-minded people, understand, involved, programs, volunteering, service work, conventions, meetings, fellowship, true friends, consider family, maturity, perspective, dependent, fear, insecurity, anger, achieve, personal trainer, nutritionist, connection, accountability, resources, encouragement, guidance, hold your hand, meet you, process those emotions, growth, develop, better coping tools, deal with, structured, approach, 12 steps, answers, higher power, amends, motivation, limiting belief, boundaries, explore, value, updated, improved, good supplement, living a good life, continuing to grow, law of attraction, positive thinking, manifesting, desires, dreams, working hard towards a goal, companionship, areas of your life, improve your life, label, barrier, subconscious mind, productive, effort, commitment, daily work, reprogram your mind, react differently, comfortable, make peace with our past, business, successful relationships, health, routines, habits, imposter syndrome, people pleaser, conflict, change, contented in life, busy mind, learning new ways, growing up, mature, mentor, step by step, make a plan, principles, excess, emotional regulation, change our behavior, meeting in the middle, self-sabotaging, inner critic, self-love, self-respect, self-care, love myself, accountability partner, perfect alignment, cultural upbringing, midlife, miserable, trapped, don’t take enough time for themselves, everything’s black or white, communicate, choice, free will, core values, inner peace, success, what feeds your soul, investing time, investing your money, investing you energy, goals, makes you happy, life’s purpose, feeds your soul, law of attraction, thrive, following divine breadcrumbs, evolve, self-sufficiency, self-coaching, independent, valuable, miracle

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Dennis Berry

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a bus, how to sit with your emotions, when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

I’ve invited my guest, Dennis Berry, to have this conversation with me, because he’s not only a skilled Life Coach, who is passionate about the benefits of Coaching, but is also in recovery and found recovery in A.A. and for many years was an active participant in the program. He both sees all the benefits of 12 step programs, and the differences between A.A. and Coaching.

 

A few weeks ago, Dennis and I had a long conversation about the benefits and synergies of both approaches, as well as where the work in a stop. And often Coaching begins. And the work that is to be done after you stop drinking and look forward to what you want in your life after alcohol and the concept of independence and sobriety.

 

Dennis is a Life Coach based in Colorado, who’s been working with people recovering from addiction worldwide for over 15 years. He’s been in recovery from drug abuse for 17 years, which is incredible, since 2003. And his recovery has helped him find his mission in life, which is to help others on their journey through sobriety and achieve inner peace and success in every area of their lives. Dennis is also the host of The Funky Brain Podcast, which is terrific and you should check out and I know you’re going to love him. So, Dennis, welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast.

 

04:03

Thanks, Casey. I’m excited for our talk today. Great topic.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson 04:07

Yeah, it’s an it’s an important one, because there’s so much confusion around it. And when we touch base, I know that you had so many great insights and energy around it. So, I’m just going to throw it to you in the beginning. What do you see as the big difference between A.A. and Life or Recovery Coaching?

 

04:28

Yeah, well, I mean, it’s hard to cover it all in just a short walk. Because there’s so much there’s good and bad to both, and you said something in the intro that’s really important. If you find something that’s working for you, like keep doing that. And you know, we all grow at different levels. And, you know, sometimes we grow in different directions. You know, we can grow at the same rate but in different directions. So, some things work for some people and some don’t. And, you know, I just think it’s important to find something that works for you. If you’re doing A.A. or Life Coaching, or any other type of rehab or something, it’s because life’s not going long. You know, like, something’s really messed up. And I need to change something because I’m in enough pain now to make changes.

 

So, I also tell people, some of my clients, like go to meetings, you know, because I think there is benefit there. It’s a great intro to life, because I didn’t know how to do life on my own. So, I went to A.A. in the beginning, I went to a rehab, and it was a Recovery Program based. And so, while I was there for 30 days, they taught us about A.A., and I went to A.A. meetings and it was like, You know what, well, I was dying before I came here. And now I feel better, and I’m confused. And this place gives me some solace, you know, and there’s a bunch of like-minded people that understand what I’m going through. So that’s great. Like, go to A.A., and I went for a really long time. And the first probably 7 years, I was involved in all the programs, that volunteering, I did all the service work, all the assemblies, the conventions, the meetings on Saturday nights, like all that stuff, and it was really awesome. You know, in my opinion, the best part about a is the fellowship, you know, true friends that even to this day, I still consider a family. And that’s awesome. Because before my friends were like, killing me, you know. So that’s great. And then even up until, you know, just a couple years ago, I was really going on a regular basis. And then what happened was, I realized that I wasn’t growing beyond a certain level.

 

And that’s where Coaching comes in. You know, it’s like, in my experience, what it is. And again, I have longtime lifelong friends that I call family that continue to go and, and I continue to call them on it on a regular base, somewhat regular basis, to check in, or if things get messed up, and I need somebody to talk to, like, that’s growth, that’s maturity, calling somebody, when things aren’t going well try to get a different perspective on life. And what I realized one day, though, was like one, I became dependent on A.A., you know, I would get like, in fear, insecurity, anger, whatever it was, that was going on in my life, and I’m like, I have to go to a meeting. And instead of learning how to feel my way through it, and process feelings and thoughts, and grow to the next level, the other piece of the puzzle was that I wasn’t growing and changing, like, I want to change.

 

No, I don’t, you know, they’re like, here’s what’s wrong, you’re an alcoholic. These are your behaviors, your resentments, your fears, these are the things that’s wrong with you keep coming back, you’re going to go drink again, I want to know, okay, well, I’ll keep coming back. But what do I do to change those? And that’s where coaching comes in.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson 07:51

I think that one of the things I love about Coaching, especially Recovery Coaching, is because in my mind, you go to a coach, because you’re stuck, there’s something you want to achieve in your life that you haven’t been able to do on your own. And so I think of it as sort of a personal trainer, or nutritionist or anyone else who’s looking at you, or somewhere in your life, and you need connection, accountability, resources, encouragement, guidance, and someone to hold your hand and meet with you and, and keep you to those goals that you stated were important in your life before the rest of your life got in your way.

 

And when people come to you, because they want to stop drinking, or when people come to me typically, it’s not that they haven’t tried to moderate they have, they’ve gotten to the point where they’re like, okay, I love to drink, I don’t want to stop drinking. And yet, it is not working for me. And I’m sort of throwing in the towel, and I need help. And one of the things I like about Coaching, like you said is that you get to work with the person about how to process those emotions, and growth. So, when something happens, when they typically would turn towards a drink, they get to actually develop better coping tools to deal with it.

 

And A.A. is one way to do that. And I know it helps a lot of people I actually went to A.A. when I first was trying to quit drinking. I went for about 4 or 5 months. I got a year. But it is very structured in its approach. It is to some extent with the 12 steps, the answers are go to the meeting, do the 12 steps, turn it over to the higher power, you can talk to this more than I can make your amends, do your inventory and keep coming back as opposed to some time for every single person. There’s a different motivation. There’s a different limiting belief. There are different challenges in their lives and approach to boundaries. And that’s what Coaching helps you explore.

 

09:56

Yeah, well and great stuff. Like everything you just said. And the accountability, I think is, is the biggest piece there. And yeah, and it’s like having a Coach here to hold your feet to the fire and help you clearly define your goals, and then work towards them. And he just really doesn’t do stuff like that they stick to that structure, this program, this is the program, it’s been 80 years old hasn’t been updated, hasn’t been updated or improved. This is just the way it is and the way that it was 80 years ago. And again, there’s value there.

 

Absolutely. But then let’s move beyond it. Let’s move. Let’s go to the next level. And there’s no next level, there’s like, it’s like level 12. Yeah, you know, and then your stuff. So, one thing that I say often is like, I think that it’s a good supplement, to living a good life, not a substitute for living a good life and continuing to grow. It’s like law of attraction, like the secret, you know, there’s some value there, you should think positively throughout your life. And, you know, when you wake up in the morning, you know, put a plan together and think positively about your day. But it’s not like, you know, manifesting hundred thousand-dollar checks coming in, and then get stoned and play Xbox all day. It’s about, it’s about thinking positively manifesting those types of desires and dreams, and then working hard towards a goal, right, so as a supplement for living out a substitute for living.

 

And A.A. I think is the same way. It’s like, that’s great, you should go and go to some meetings, especially if you live by yourself, or you’re lonely or something, and you need that fellowship or companionship, go to a meeting, and then work on other areas of your life on how to improve your life. Don’t just like go out there and talk about how the rest of the world is messed up and don’t grow. So again, it’s a supplement for living not a substitute for living.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson 12:08

If you’re listening to this episode and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit®. The Sobriety Starter Kit® is an online self study, sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step-by-step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one-on-one coaching. And The Sobriety Starter Kit® is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it, when it fits into your schedule.  You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time. This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step-by-step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life. You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better, you’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course.

 

I wanted to ask you about one of the things that I know that people have really struggled with in going to A.A. meetings. And you know, everybody says, take what you take what you need and leave the rest. But the concept of having to label yourself an alcoholic, right. I mean, I went to meetings and even though they say the only requirement is a desire to stop drinking, there certainly is a lot of pressure to walk in and say, Hi, I’m Casey and I’m an alcoholic. Right? If you don’t say it, you get comments like you’re just in denial, you know, that kind of thing. So, tell me what you think about that?

 

13:53

Yeah, it’s a loaded question. Well, you know, like, what, like, what does that term mean? Like, is it associated with like a disease? Do you think it’s an incurable? Is it a label that you want to walk around with? I mean, part of my condition is like, I take things personally sometimes. So, maybe I’m taking it, too personally. I don’t know. I mean, really, let’s just like get to the root of the problem and focus on what’s important. Yeah, this is my No, so people get into the, you know, you know, that’s alcoholic behavior or alcoholic thinking. I don’t know. I mean, it’s a label.

 

14:28

Yeah. So, what I think a label which is, which is a barrier, because I know that I don’t personally, I mean, I know that I have a problem with alcohol. I believe it’s addictive. I believe it’s on a spectrum, right, the elevator only goes down and it’s progressive. And, you know, drinking is taking me, was taking me nowhere that I wanted to go. And it is easier for me not to drink. And in my mind, I’m like, I don’t fuck with alcohol anymore. I just don’t screw with it. It’s something that I’m taking off the table. Because I don’t have an off switch. And yet, I don’t think it’s necessary for me to label myself an alcoholic, and I don’t. And I think that was a big barrier for me and going to a because you’re sort of, you know, you are told to take what works and leave the rest. But there’s a lot I had to leave, like, you know, a lot of sitting through meetings, sort of internally having this cognitive dissonance against God and praying and the alcoholic term and, you know, disease. I mean, there was like, 80% that I was trying to leave. Yeah,

 

15:39

yeah, it’s good. I mean, it’s good to recognize. So, you have, you’re somebody that has these boundaries, and I don’t want to be labeled as that. So, I’m not going right. And that’s great. If you can identify that like that, you’re ahead of a bunch of people that don’t have that type of awareness. So that’s really great. And, you know, what you’re saying is I am this, I’m an alcoholic. So that means I’m doomed, you know, something like that. So, I totally agree with you. You’re saying I, again, I think I think it goes back to you know, what, what, what you said was great, take what you want, leave the rest. So, you know what, at the end of the day, it just wasn’t working for you. And so, there are other solutions like well, we do, which is Life Coaching for addiction, recovery, and alcoholism.

 

16:25

So, tell me about that. Tell me how you see Life Coaching for Addiction Recovery? Because I know when I talked to you about it, I was like, Yes, right on, I feel the same way.

 

16:35

Right? Well, it’s just it’s a different approach, I think it’s the same, it’s the same, you know, concept is that alcohol and drugs or food or sex, or shopping or whatever, that’s not my problem. That’s part of the problem. But my product, it’s what I’m using to cope with my problem, which is, you know, my thinking, it’s my lack of coping skills, I had never, you know, learned along the way. So, I need to get to the root of what the problem is, like I drink, because I’m insecure, fearful, angry, resentful. And so, let’s get to the root of the problem. And then let’s correct that behavior. Yes, get into our subconscious mind. So, you know, our conscious mind, let’s get into some Coaching. Turns out, this is fun stuff. So, our conscious minds, say, this is my to do list. These are my goals. This is what I want to accomplish in life, this is what I’m going to do. And my subconscious mind says, Let’s go get a beer. Or let’s have some chocolate cake. And let’s do it. So, our subconscious mind drives like 80 to 90% of all of our activity. And it just wants to keep us comfortable, right? It doesn’t know right or wrong, good or bad. It just says, let’s just hang out here. And so, it keeps us unproductive. Now, our subconscious mind was programmed between the ages of zero and 18, when we’re not qualified to form those types of beliefs and behaviors that are keeping us from being as productive as we want to be in our lives. Right. So, in order to correct that we need to go in and reprogram our subconscious mind. And that takes, well, it takes time, effort, commitment, and it takes daily work to, you know, to change the way that we view the world, has changed our beliefs and our behaviors. And it doesn’t happen overnight.

 

The good news is it can happen. So, when you say I’m an alcoholic, well, yeah, maybe? Well, let’s go in and find out why you’re doing that type of behavior. And then let’s correct that now. You said something that’s really great. You’re like, I know that when I drink, elevator keeps going down and down. I can’t safely use alcohol anymore. It doesn’t work for me. Like you can’t make a cucumber out of a pickle. Yeah, I believe that, like, I believe that you can’t go in, at least for me, and it sounds like you too, like I can’t go in and safely use alcoholic. It just is never going to work that way. I can’t have a beer. I never had anything. Right? I had a ball and gallon of whiskey. That’s what I had. So, it’s just the way that my brain, it’s kind of my life can still be extreme like that. And it just doesn’t work for me.

 

But we can go back in there and reprogram your mind to react differently to the way that life goes. And when we do that and become more comfortable with ourselves and with our, make peace with our past and you know, go back in and, you know, make the amends, do the things that clear up our past and become comfortable with who we are today. Then, I don’t need to drink anymore. And I don’t want to.

 

Yeah, and obviously, go through life. And I can, now that I’ve taken that problem away. I can achieve my goals. I can start a business. I can have successful relationships. I can work on my health and loose that 50 pounds or whatever. Because I’ve taken away that problem. Out of my life.

 

20:02

Yeah, and one of the things that I always think is I love, you know, when the work I do is core energy coaching, so in my mind, like drinking over drinking, going back to that, that is for a lot of women, a maladaptive coping strategy. And it is the knee jerk reaction that they’ve gone tthrough, for any emotion they have, right? Anger, frustration, you’re celebrating, you want to make it more, you’ve been socially conditioned to do that, you believe it’s required to be an adult to have fun.

 

And, by the way, it’s physically addictive as well. So, you know, you go in withdrawal when you’re not. So, you’re constantly if you drink daily, like I did, or even four days, you know, in between drinking, you’re constantly getting the high and then the withdrawal, and irritable until you get the high again, right. So, it is a really tough cycle to get out of. So, in my mind, the Life Coaching work is first, to kind of help you get through like a personal trainer, right, or the accountability of like, okay, we’re not going to drink, you’re going to do these things. Instead, let’s talk about new routines, new habits, what you can eat, what you can drink, how to break your old patterns, you know, break through some of those limiting beliefs about what life without alcohol would look like. But then, once you remove it, like everybody has a reason that they drink, whether they’re socially anxious, or they have imposter syndrome at work for a lot of women, or they have bad boundaries, and are people pleaser, and are rightfully frustrated, or resentful, or feel like they have too much on their plate and yet struggle with conflict or change.

 

So the great work is to do that underneath, and to figure out like, what’s been holding you back from what you want to achieve, including if it’s just peace, joy, happiness, feeling competent, feeling confident, in life, at work, whatever it is, and working through that, so that you can go after your goals, and just live a happy, contented life, and manage anxiety without alcohol or whatever your substances. So that’s what I love about Coaching because, you know, drinking is just the symptom, right? It’s the symptom of whatever is underneath. And, you know, for me, I started using it at 18 when I went to college, primarily, and I’m like, Oh, my God, this takes away my anxiety. This makes me relax, like, I was always a busy mind kind of stressed out, hyper vigilant over, you know, a million things on my list, and I drank and it like, took me down six levels. And I was like, this is awesome. But I never figured out how to actually cope with my busy mind without alcohol.

 

22:51

Yeah, I mean, great stuff. And you said, that’s the work underneath. But I, I don’t know, I can almost disagree. I think that is the work – to work on this stuff. Because this stuff of my thinking, the way I react to the world. That’s my problem. It’s my thinking. So, I think that’s, that’s the real work.

 

Yes, there’s a physical addiction to alcohol, we need to take that away. And we have to run through some of that. And we do it with an accountability partner. Like, when I’ll start working with somebody who’s really fresh, really coming off of a lot of drinking with me almost every day, for the first week, like 5 or 6 days a week, you know, sometimes it’s longer, sometimes it’s shorter, but just it’s that accountability and that check in. And then we have to start learning new ways to react to life, like how to how to get through all this stuff. And what it comes down to is the drinking, the eating, the shopping, all this stuff.

 

It’s all distractions, from feeling. Yeah, I don’t feel well when a feeling comes in. You know, and you were you were talking about though it’s your reaction to life. And when a feeling comes in, I, I had a big problem processing that. So when I was in, you know, 2530 years ago, when I was feeling angry, or whatever, I would like punch holes in the wall. You know, that’s not an adult reaction to like, or I would yell and scream or say things to hurt people that I would have to go back and apologize for. And I hate that shit. So now I’ve learned to not react to life that way. And I haven’t done that in a long time, so don’t worry, but I’ve learned to react to life in a more mature way, which at the end of the day, you know, this is all that’s what this is. This isn’t a not drinking contest. It’s not a not snorting cocaine or smoking meat contest. It’s about growing up. And being an adult and looking the world in the eye and accomplishing my goals and dreams clearly defining what those are working on. You know, slowly making process not going for instant gratification. And everything that I do in life, it’s about like strategically picking life apart and going after what I want to. And once I take away those harmful behaviors, I can do those things. Yeah, and it’s really great.

 

And I don’t see, in my opinion, you, I just really don’t think we could do it ourselves. I think it depending on what your goals are, there’s certain things you can do by yourself. Like, if I don’t want to eat that cake tonight, I can do a few things on my own, I can meditate and I can, you know, cause somebody, I can distract myself and other healthy ways to not go in and eat that whole cake. But I think that in terms of accomplishing big goals in your life, I think we need that Coach, we need that mentor and that accountability partner, to help us clearly define what it is. And in my Coaching practice, what I work on a lot is the one thing at any given time, we’re only working on one major goal, because you were talking about earlier, I want to do all these things at the same time.

 

And you know, I take New Year’s Eve as an example. We all have those five new year’s resolutions on our thing. And it we’re like, I’m going to do these no matter what. And you know, what life goes on and I’m trying to accomplish and all those plates in the air, I’m trying to accomplish all of these major goals. And next New Year’s Eve, those same five goals are on my New Year’s Eve resolutions again. Yeah, so we need to really pick apart one goal at a time, and then strategically work, you know, step by step, like make a plan to get through that stuff. And if I start drinking, I can’t get any of that done.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson 26:34

Yeah, I mean, drinking really keeps you stuck. Absolutely. And that’s what it does. You’re just in this Groundhog Day of drinking, and then recovering from drinking and wanting to drink again, you know, regardless of how much you drink, like the thinking is always about that. And one thing I wanted to say, and I think this is a little bit different between men and women, and I think it manifests differently. Also, within 12 step programs, you know, you mentioned that they were 85 years old, completely true. They were also written by white men, for men. I mean, with a Christian, you know, religious background, regardless of the evolution is whatever you perceive God to be, but in the big book, you know, it’s.. there is a chapter for the wives, meaning the wives of the people in the program. And in A.A., what I found was the emphasis on kind of breaking down your ego, and being of service for most women, I Coach, you know, I think it is valuable, right?

 

It’s about keeping your side of the street clean, it’s about taking personal responsibility, it’s about thinking outside yourself and investing in the program. And yet, most women I know, their issue isn’t ego, their issue isn’t that they’re not enough of service to others, their issue is that they don’t have strong enough boundaries, they don’t do enough self-care, they don’t, their cup is empty, and they go go…go and the only thing they need to… they’re drinking to tolerate the way their life is set up. They’re drinking away micro aggressions and frustration. So, you know, if you have, and I know this is true for men too. But if you have a full-time job, and you’ve got kids, and you’re in charge of the commute and everything, it’s not excuses, but being told to go to a meeting, you know, that sometimes it’s hard. And in the modern world, you can get support through virtual Coaching, you can get support through podcasts and online groups where you find that fellowship that to some extent often fits better into your schedule, then, you know, the answer, you know, sometimes I work with my clients, and it’s like, okay, you want to drink? What emotion are you feeling right now? Okay, you’re like, why do you want to drink? What are you trying to numb out? What are you trying to highlight? And sometimes it’s overwhelmed. Sometimes it’s huge anxiety, sometimes it’s loneliness, frustration, and then you solve for that emotion, right? If you’re feeling overwhelmed, going to a meeting is probably not number one solution that you want to that you want to do.

 

29:11

Yeah, I mean, again, great points, like you’re saying, a lot of the same stuff, I would say. And I think it’s the same thing with religion, and going to church, or whatever it is, it’s like, you know, those are all great principles. But I don’t need to go to church to like, learn those principles and apply them in my life. It’s the same thing with a 12-step meeting, like, I’ve been at more meetings than most thousands of meetings. And it’s like, I know the principles. Now I need to apply them in my life. So, we can learn those principles from a Coach. We can learn them from other friends that we surround ourselves, other successful, happy, healthy people.

 

Are you living that way? So, let me ask them, and I can learn those principles in different ways. I don’t need to go to a meeting. And like I said earlier, I started because I realized that it took me years to realize this, I was dependent on meeting, so It was like, it’s a cross addiction. You know, I stopped drinking, but now I’m eating a pound of chocolate every day, or I’m still smoking cigarettes. Like, these are all the things like you have to treat your body like that temple that is this is what’s carry through our lives. So, if you don’t start, like taking care of your body, even, you know, you’re gonna, now you have health problems. Now you have real problems. But like, these cross addictions, we’re using these different outside things to deal with our insides instead of feeling them all the way through. So, it can be an alcohol, it could be drugs, it could be chocolate, it could be cigarettes, it could be sex, it could be codependency, which is the biggest addiction in the whole world.

 

Yes. And it could be a meetings or shopping. You know, I mean, what are you doing? Now, I’m not saying any one of those things is necessarily wrong. And finally, cigarettes like tobacco used to be a ceremonious thing. Like, they would have ceremonies 100 years ago, and have fires and pass around the tobacco pipe, and you take it off your plate, and nobody died a cancer. But now, we’re smoking three packs of cigarettes a day. And now, it’s harmful. But the problem is always excess, like, wine isn’t No problem, either. It’s a problem for me, because I drink four bottles of wine at once. That’s a problem. But you know, if you can go to dinner and sip on a glass of wine and taste the earthy undertones, then great, you know if it’s not affecting your life, but at once it becomes I’m doing this instead of feeling or instead of being responsible, or instead of taking care of my health. That’s across addiction. Right? So, I’m substituting feeling for chocolate or wine or cigarettes or code or a partner codependency. Right, and not learning how to feel and grow properly.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson 31:52

I have a question for you. You were in the program for a long time. You said you did all the things I occasionally hear the question, is Coaching just a paid sponsor? And I know that sponsors are their job, you know, their role is to help you go through the 12 steps, right? It’s a prescribed program, and they work you through those 12 steps. But have you gotten that question before? And what do you say about it?

 

32:19

Yeah, I mean, it can be like that, it depends on who your coach is, and what their training is, and, and stuff like that. But, you know, in A.A., they do A.A., you know, so when you meet with your sponsor, I mean, I’ve sponsored hundreds of guys, I mean, I used to sit in coffee shops on a weekly basis and talk to guys, and we read the book. And then, if you talk all the time, as we do with the book set, and that’s what we were talking about earlier, like it, you reach a point. And I know that book, really well, I’ve read it 100 times, and it says seek outside help is necessary. And so, I think that there’s just a point where A.A. stops, and you need to continue to grow. And now if you can get sober without A.A.

 

That’s awesome. And if you feel like you need to go to A.A., go to A.A. But I think that you know what you said that’s a that’s a great question. I think that what we do as Coaches is, we work on different things. Like, Yes, alright, let’s talk about your resentments and your fear. Let’s get those out. Let’s get that shipped out, because that’s keeping me from growing. But now, we’re also going to work on changing our behavior. So, let’s work on some emotional regulation. So instead of yelling at my wife, or my husband, over and over again, you know, let’s bring that out. Okay, this is my behavior. Let’s go through it. So last night, I yelled at my wife. And this isn’t true. This is hyper. Last night, I yelled at my wife, because I didn’t like what was said. Or last night, I yelled at her because of that yesterday morning. It’s good to identify that and I think in a way they’re like, Okay, well, it’s good that you identify that.

 

But let’s change that behavior. Let’s say, let’s start recognizing before that happens, why are you behaving like that? And then, let’s start to actively change our behavior and grow, grow up because learn how to react to the world differently instead, actually, I don’t want to react, I want to learn how to act. I want to learn how to pause and calm down and say, you know what, now I have this awareness and alcohol is not in the way of me growing up. So how can I act differently? Why am I angry with my wife in the first place? She’s great. She’s putting up with me. So what? So, before, if something’s going on? Am I really mad because I didn’t like what was for dinner or something that she said, why do I feel that way? Let’s talk about that. And then we can start establishing boundaries.

 

34:54

Once you have it, is you getting clear which I always think it’s the first step like when you change in a relationship, the whole relationship changes. So yes, you’re frustrated, you’re angry, you’re resentful, but like irritated. But why? Do you even know what it is you want? Let’s get clear on that. What does in the relationship example? What does a great fulfilling, loving, you know, relationships, supportive relationship looks like for you? And what can you do to achieve that, and including communicating with your partner? And also getting clear on what that looks like? for them? What are they not getting, you know, that they want, and figuring out if there’s a way to meet in the middle, I always think it is, you know, you are feeling those emotions, because there’s something you need that you are not getting. And all emotions are valid, but it’s your responsibility to dig into it and to say, what, you know, this is sort of a what’s my part of it? But also, you know, let’s, what is my solution for it, you always talk about finding solutions, like you’re responsible for making yourself happy.

 

36:06

Well, that’s where they stop. And I actually had a sponsor years ago, and it didn’t occur to me until just recently, he was trying to do that with me. What was, uh, this is my par, this is why I was resentful. This is how it made me feel. This was my part in it. And he said, how could I have done that differently? or whatever, whatever his verbiage was, and this was, like, 15 years ago, so I don’t remember exactly. But he was trying to do that, which is great. But I was like, No, this is a we need to like stick to the buck.

 

And again, that’s where they faltered a little bit. But as far as relationships, you know, communicating. I mean, that’s a whole another episode, podcast episode. But that’s hard. You know, we, you said, you’re like, what am I not getting? Or what are you not getting? How can we meet each other there? That’s a skill in itself in its own, and that’s an alcohol, or drugs or addictions of any kind, really inhibit that. I mean, it’s a tough skill in the first place, you pour alcohol on top of it, like, I’m my, my needs aren’t being met here. But I’ll just drink and not have to worry about that right now. And you know, that builds up and builds up for a year or 5 years or 20 years. Now you have real problems in your marriage.

 

37:20

Yeah. And, you know, obviously, like when you drink, you sort of go in your own bubble, so your partner can feel lonely, or ignored. And you don’t want to deal with them. Right? In part, that’s why you’re drinking. So, you don’t have to, but I always say like, alcohol doesn’t, it’s not a solution. It’s, you know, best case, it’s a pause button, you wake up, and the problem is still there, and you do it every night, then the problem is constantly there. But in actuality, most of the time, alcohol just adds a problem to a problem. You’re essentially, you have a problem. And all you’re doing is pouring on a hangover, a bad memory, a headache, a sick stomach to your problem. And by the way, you’re exhausted now, and your nerves are fried, and you’re defensive, because you drink too much the night before. And I think a lot of women, you know, and I’ve seen this in my Coaching, right? A lot of women, myself included, are uncomfortable with conflict, right? You’re told you need to be a good girl, people need to like you, if they don’t like you, you’re a bitch, you’re difficult, whatever it is. So, you are very uncomfortable. Many women were standing up for themselves and drawing boundaries or creating conflict, even with their spouse, even with their children, to some extent, right. And so, you are drowning out your fear of conflict, but then you wake up hating yourself. So, you’re basically self-sabotaging, so that you’re angry at yourself not angry at your partner, which by the way, is more comfortable. Because you’re used to being angry at yourself, right? Your inner critic voice is well established. So, you don’t even realize that you’re doing that when you’re doing that. You know what I mean? And that’s what a Coach helps to ask those questions to dig. To be like, okay, so that happened. Why didn’t you say this? Well, this reason? Well, what? Tell me about that, what would have happened, and then just incrementally coaching a different behavior, a different path, and sort of holding your hand through that uncomfortableness of like, yeah, you stood up for yourself. And now you’re just sitting there being uncomfortable. And yet the world didn’t end, and you got the outcome you wanted. And the whole relationship is adjusting.

 

39:40

Yeah, I mean, US hit the nail on the head. It’s hard. It’s hard to do. I you know, another thing that’s important, but I was thinking about this while you were talking is uh, it takes time to get to these realizations. Remember, we’re talking about our subconscious which may have been programmed incorrectly or rewired are wired the wrong way, for 40 years. So, you know, when it’s hard to communicate and to be up front and to say exactly how you’re feeling and what you need. In that moment, it’s hard. Yeah. And if you’ve not been doing that for 40 years and not being aware of it, that’s the that’s the point we’re getting at what you were just saying you need a Coach to help pull you out.

 

Yeah, absolutely. And here’s the other thing, the flip side of that are, in addition to that, is that in my take, like, a month or 3 months to get to that realization, it’s not like, Oh, I’m gonna meet with this Coach, and my whole life’s gonna change next week. I mean, part of it might, if you take out the huge glaring alcohol problem, but you know, it might take a month or 2 months or 6 months, to realize, like they’re real underlying pain that you really need to dig out and work on. And, you know, sometimes people have had experience with coaches, and I’m glad we’re having this talk. So, people can hear this. You know, they’re, they’re like, I tried that Coach, and I tried that coaching thing, it didn’t work. Well, how long did you see your Coach? Oh, it’s like two or three weeks? Well, I mean, that would be great. If you could just like flip everything around and change your whole life. In two or three weeks. You know, we’re talking about decades of rewiring, that needs to be done. And we might not even see the problem for a few weeks, or maybe even a few months. And you know, it’s going layers deep. Like we might realize a couple of big, glaring problems right away.

 

But then I’ll tell you example, about myself. It took me months of working with my Coach. About 6 months, one day, and I was sitting meditating in a mountain. And I was reading, I bring my book with me, and I’ll read. And I realized I was reading this thing about self-love, and self-respect and self-care. And I realized, I didn’t love myself. It took about six months, like we worked on some serious shit. Yeah, when in there, and we’ve dug a lot of stuff about my past. Now, we’ve dealt with a lot of issues I have with my, you know, parents’ relationships, and all kinds of stuff. And it took me 6 months to realize, and this is 6 months after decades, of living life the wrong way. And it took me 6 months of working with him to realize I didn’t love myself. And I started crying. I was in the woods, myself. This like, you know, fit strong. Yeah, middle aged man, crying, because I realized, I don’t love myself. And that took a long time. So, and it’s humbling. But that’s where the growth comes from.

 

42:46

You know, we do after that, like you identified the problem, and then you need to work to the solution.

 

42:52

Yes, and you need to have somebody to work through it with you. Yeah. Because you know, the subconscious mind will constantly pull us back. So, we can say, All right, here’s our plan. We’re going to work on this, and I’m going to do this by myself. And two weeks later, you’re going to be like, I feel a little bit better. And I’m going to start sliding back into my old beliefs and behaviors. And these limiting beliefs, like you were saying earlier, that were keeping me sick, that were keeping me unhealthy, that were keeping me from loving, and respecting myself.

 

Yeah, and I’ll just slide right back into that behavior. If I don’t have an accountability partner. To help keep me on top of this plan, I need to develop a plan. Okay, well, this is what’s wrong. This is my major goal; we’re going to work on loving myself. Now I’m going to create a specific plan of action, specific steps, 3 or 5 steps, 10 steps that I’m going to work on every day, starting with prayer, meditation, and eating well, loving my body. You know, eating a pound of chocolate every day, isn’t loving and caring for myself.

 

43:53

Yeah,

 

43:54

you know, it’s the body, mind and spirit, we should really be working on that on a regular basis. And it’s rare to have all three in perfect alignment all the time. But as long as you’re aware and making an attempt to have a better life and have somebody to walk you through that together. That’s great. You know, you’re gonna get there.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson 44:18

Yeah. I love the idea of both the specific plan and how you work on it once you identify the issue, and it’s part of digging to identify that issue.

 

That’s a huge problem. I mean, I feel like so many of the women I saw whether or not they have an issue without call, I mean I used to work in in corporate America and I think that is just a breeding ground for women who need Coaching. They all go to therapy, but I think, you know, myself included raised my hand but like coaching would be amazing because the issue you know, most of these women and I’m raising my hand, right. You do everything you’re supposed to do like you’re a gold star girl, you’ve climbed the corporate ladder, you went to college, you graduated college, you got the first job. You’ve done everything that you’ve been taught through society, through your parents through whatever based on your cultural upbringing will make you happy. And so, at some point, midlife, right their mid 30s, mid 40s, whatever it is, they say I’ve got the house, I’ve got the kids, I’ve got the partner, I’ve got the job, and I hate my life.

 

And you don’t hate the people in your life, you, you like, individual aspects. And yet they wake up just trying to make it through the day. And at the end of the day, they want to, you know, basically drink themselves unconscious to not think about it. And of course, you love your kids, your partner, you want to do the sports, you want to do all the things, and yet they’re miserable. And they can’t figure out why. They’re like, you know, whether they’re trapped by the golden handcuffs or they just don’t take enough time for themselves or everything’s black or white, or they don’t communicate well, whatever it is, you don’t realize how much of your life hasn’t been your choice, your free will, right?

 

Like, you were passionate about something in college. And then your father told you, you’d never make any money, right? Or you wanted to be a doctor and your finances told you couldn’t do it. So, you went down a path if something else, like whatever it is, and you’re so locked in, you’re scared. You don’t even know what you want. You don’t even know why you’re unhappy. You think it’s your commute, it’s actually you’re not doing your life’s work, right. Like that’s the extent of the disconnect. But it’s also like, I love doing Coaching, where you get to talk about like your core values, and what you want to look back on and say that you’ve done and what you actually care about, and what lights you up. And usually people aren’t even living by their core values. They’re living by the core values of their parents society or their boss, right, which are so far distant, like they’re just, they’re putting their head down and plowing through and women asked me all the time, like, Am I just supposed to suck this up for another 10 years to I can retire? And I’m like, Oh, dear god, no. That is a recipe for drinking to forget about your life, don’t suck it up for another decade, like take incremental steps to do what lights you up?

 

47:11

Absolutely! Yeah. And what you’re talking about is the mass consciousness. So, we follow, you were talking about is I are your goals, and dreams, your goals and dreams. Yeah, those were your goals and dreams predetermine, for you by your clan, you know, your parents or your neighborhood, or the TV commercials you’re watching, that are telling you this is the web, this is the path you need to take. This is if you want to be happy and successful, like the pictures that we’re showing you on this commercial, take this path. And you know, and they show somebody who’s perfect and fit and healthy with the kids playing in the playground, and then they take that path to get there. Because that’s what’s going to bring that inner peace and success. And then they realized that and you know, most of them don’t make it which is, which is another topic because most you’re talking about the woman or the man, whoever that makes it to the top that climbs the corporate ladder back as the house the car, the kids and is like happy or, you know, seemingly happy and has all the stuff that’s still like the 5%, there’s 4%, there’s still the 90% that never make it that far, or past mediocre. And they’re the ones laying in bed with the covers over their head in the morning. Scared of getting out of bed. Because they’re trying to fit in, they’re failing. Right?

 

So, when I say are your goals, your goals? Are they somebody else’s goals, idea of what you’re supposed to be doing with your life? And I would say if they’re not your goals, one, it’s hard for you to even determine that because you’ve been conditioned for decades to believe those are your goals. Right?

 

But we need to find out what feeds your soul. Hmm, what makes you want to get out and hit the floor and be smiling and put your arms up in the air. We need to figure that out. And it’s most cases people don’t know is your first 30 years you were conditioned to say you have to go get this job and sit in traffic and get here and make you know, the 80,000 or 120 whatever it is that you need to make to pay for your life in suburbia and have the car so let’s figure out what it is that feeds your soul. And then let’s start working on that.

 

49:28

Yeah, and investing your time, money and energy in those goals that will actually make you happy. And the other thing that I love what you’re saying is, so many of us unconsciously are using fear-based goals. We are trying to achieve a goal to not have an outcome that we don’t want. We’re scared of something we’re trying to protect ourselves from embarrassment or getting our ego hurt or financial ruin or scarcity or whatever it is, you know, lose Love, but it is the hope and dream based goals that are what lifts you up and energize you and move you forward. So if you can identify not what you’re afraid of losing, but your hopes, and what you want, there is such a different energy to that, that really propels you forward. And yet I know for years, I was operating out of fear, like I was living my life out of fear out of what I didn’t want out of, I better work hard, so I don’t get fired or laid off, and therefore I’ll have no money, and therefore I’ll never get a job again. I mean, you’re like worst case, scenario catastrophic, which is probably why I drank, right? And, you know, instead of that, you know, looking forward and saying, here’s what I want, and I have positive energy around it, and reprogramming your thoughts to believe you’re, you’re worthy of it, you’re capable of it, you know, looking at what you’re doing well, versus what you’re doing poorly and actually having a plan to achieve it. I mean, that’s what’s powerful.

 

51:03

I love that. And, you know, well, first of all that, you know, those hope based goals, and that’s a such a great, that’s a good use of the law of attraction, right? That’s positive thinking, with action, along with action, by living in that frame, and not living in fear-based goals. The other thing I want to run by you or get your people that are listening to this is like, you know, it’s scary. Once you find your life’s purpose of that thing that feeds your soul that you want to do. Okay, I recognize I don’t belong in corporate America. I don’t want to be there. And there’s some people that thrive on it. I’m not, I’m not shooting that down. There are some people that I could drink wine. You know, it’s like, it’s okay. But if it’s not you, which it’s mostly not, I would say most of the population is not you. It’s what we’ve been fed into, if it’s scary for you to go out and start your own business, because you might fail. And you might lose a couple years, one or two or five years. Is that scary? Is that scarier than spending the next 20 or 30 years doing something you hate doing every morning? Just to try to get by. Which is scarier? Is it scarier to go after your goals and dreams and hopes of being happy and fulfilled every day, for a couple years, there’s going to be definitely some breast, you’re going to be going against the grain, people are going to try to push you back and get in line and do what you’re supposed to be doing. Or isn’t it scary to do for 20 or 30 more years, where you hate doing? That, to me is way scarier?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson 52:42

Yeah, and I think that the other thing is, and I, you know, it doesn’t have to be black and white, right? It doesn’t have to be all or nothing, because I think that is what’s scary. And you also have to look at the underlying assumptions and limiting beliefs that may not be true, right? I will never make as much money as I do in corporate, if I go do what I love, that’s a Liberty belief. That’s an assumption, it may or may not be true, but it’s probably not true. You know, when you can work to make a change in that belief is, you know, my job is actually more secure. If I go do on my own, because I’m building something for myself, and my income isn’t going to be limited by corporate policy, right? That’s a different belief. And one is energizing, and one is not. And also, just, you know, I call them following divine breadcrumbs. Like, something lights you up, you, you know, I wanted to go to coaching school, I was in corporate, I wasn’t sure I wanted to leave. You know, I was just like, I want to do this. And I can figure it out the vacation days and the money and all the things. And you know, but then I had to, like propose it to my husband, which is ridiculous, right? Like, I make my own money. I’m 40 years old, I, you know, whatever. And he said to me, you know, babe, at some point, you’re allowed to pursue personal development just because you want to, and I think that’s, I didn’t need his permission, but it helped me. And the question is getting yourself that permission without having someone tell you because a lot of spouses are resistant. But realizing I’ve worked for 20 years, or 10 years or whatever, I’m allowed to take some of my time, energy and money to pursue something that that feeds my soul.

 

And, you know, we don’t even give ourselves permission to do that. And that’s what I love about Coaching too. Because it really is an investment in shifting your thinking and in coping skills, and in you know, that will serve you for the rest of your life. Like the goal is not to be in coaching forever. The goal is to get uncovered enough and gain enough skills that you can self-coach in the future, right. You’re going to become, like you said, independent, you know if you’re dependent on going to meetings, that’s one thing, you know, you want to evolve, in addition to that, right? But you also don’t want to become dependent on a therapist or a coach, the goal is self-sufficiency, and self-coaching and moving forward in a fulfilled happy way where you’re able to navigate the world.

 

55:18

What we’ve been talking about that last time, but it’s the same thing, like, if what you’re saying with a is, uh, you know, keep coming back, or you’re gonna go drink again, and probably die. So, if I told you that, and I’m charging $100 an hour for you to talk to me, I’m gonna say you have to keep coming and pay me otherwise, you’re going to go drink and die. So the idea is for me to say, you know, you don’t need to live like that, you know, let’s work on you being independent, recognizing your own harmful beliefs and behaviors, reversing those so you don’t have to react to life situations. And then, you know, if you want to come back at talk, let’s talk about it in the future. But I want you to become independent. That’s why I like the coaching, you’ll notice, we have you do homework. And we I asked a lot of questions. So, you can find the answers yourself. And you know, what’s called an answer coach, if I sit here and tell you all the answers to your problems, then you’re going to be tempted on me. And if you fail, you’re gonna blame me for failing. I asked a lot of questions. It’s like leading you to water and learning, teaching you how to get through this stuff by on your own. And so Coaching is just, it’s such a different tool. It’s so valuable. And I, in my opinion, I think every single person in the world should have a Coach and a Mentor. Not just because we’re Coaches, I’m just saying, why wouldn’t you want to grow and learn how to be happier, more inner peace, success, and be independent? Like, why would you do that? It’s really rare that it happens on your own. It’s called a miracle.

 

56:50

Actually.

 

56:52

I think that’s a great place to leave it. I’ve loved this conversation. I every time I talk to you, I have such great energy. I want to give a plug to your The Funky Brain Podcast because it is awesome. And I know you have great guests and content out there. But if people want to get in touch with you and learn more, how can they best do that?

 

57:13

Well, you can get all through all of it through the website, which is dennisberry.com. And on there. There’s links to the podcast and my book and Coaching. All that stuff is on there. But um, that’s the best way.

 

57:30

Great, and I’ll put that of course, in the show notes. But in case anyone’s just listening.

 

It’s Dennis Berry. If you want to find Dennis, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

 

57:44

Thank you, Casey. It was a great talk. Let’s do it again. Sometime. We always have great hops.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson 57:47

Absolutely.