Yeah, do you know, I can totally relate to that. And what I often found is when I went away on a holiday, it was usually the last couple of days, then I ended up the worst, I ended up with the worst time over the least amount of sleep. It’s almost like if you’re trying to get in shape for an event, and it’s on those specific days that you end up, you know, eating the most, or it’s that kind of thing. But then, yeah, definitely, you know, I think there’s this sort of general realization these days, and you’ll find this in the workplace as well that, you know, burning yourself out and working yourself into the ground. And people are really starting to take care of themselves in many different ways. And I think this is sort of spilling over into the vacation time as well. People don’t want to go away on holiday and then come back and need another holiday. You know, they’re looking for more of a feel good holiday that’s going to be emotionally and physically, you know, fulfilling and replenishing. 

Yeah, yeah. And just to touch back on the idea of Pinterest, because we talked about that. And that is absolutely one of my favorite tools. So after I got all the ideas from my friends, and where they’ve gone and love just trying to spur them, I we ended up deciding to go to Amsterdam, and Greece, those were two places, neither, you know, I or my husband had been and places with that a lot of my friends kept being like, Oh my god, Amsterdam, photography, biking canals, things to do walking towards all the stuff.

And so I created two travel boards on Pinterest. And it really is important what types of things you search. So I did this when I went to Paris to. So instead of searching the most romantic restaurants, you can find those too, but a lot of them will feature the wine and the drinks and the cocktails. I searched like most Instagram worthy photography places because they can get you to really beautiful places, I love photography, or best brunch places. You can also look up, you know, bike tours, scooter tours, the most hidden coffee shops, which I love to or walking, I love hiking as well. And then another thing I loved was you can search like Paris with kids. Now, when I went to Paris, I didn’t bring my kids. But what you can guarantee is that there are things to do that are not centered around alcohol. And there’s like this most gorgeous Ferris Wheel in Paris that I found on the Paris with kids search and pinning those boards on Pinterest, and just all these articles come up that that kind of helps you just sort of narrow it down and get creative. 

Yeah, there’s just so many gems out there that there really are. And when you’re in that world of you know, focusing on the booze, when you do go to places, you tend to think that that’s what everybody does. But it’s not the case at all. And there are so many other people out there. Do you know creating these articles and providing this information online and you can really find so many interesting things to do. And on a journey.

Yeah, I just wanted to talk about one of the other things that I did, which was more of an immersive kind of experience for those who who are really into that kind of thing. I like to experience the culture like a local. But there’s various platforms you can use. One is called Work Away. And you can go on, for example, stay on farm and organic farm and they give you accommodation. And you do a little bit of work every day for them and you learn, you can learn a skill, for example, how to how to cultivate fruit and vegetables, things like that.

So there are so many things out there that you can do couch surfing, and it’s actually a platform, I don’t know if you’ve heard of it, it’s a cultural exchange where you can go and stay in someone’s house – a lot of people would expect you to do that for them, but open your house to travelers as well. I’ve received guests in my house, I’ve also stayed in other people’s houses are doing that while traveling. And that’s just amazing. You know, they take you and show you around, and you just do really local kind of experiences.

So I would encourage people to look into all of these things when they’re thinking about alternative activities.

I want to ask you about, of course, your company, We Love Lucid, and what are the activities you can expect. But also like how you choose your destinations. How do you I’m sure it’s based on feedback, but also what inspires you when you’re looking at a place to go where you’re like, Okay, I’m doing an alcohol free vacation. What is exciting? Where should I explore?

21:40

Yeah, so well, first of all, for anybody who doesn’t know, what we do is create these epic travel experiences, group travel experiences for solo travelers who may be sober or super curious. And so when we’re choosing locations, it’s really a lot of it’s a mixture of various places that, that I know about that I’ve been contacts that I have, and choosing places that people might not think to go on their own. But that don’t, you know, they’re still within the realm realms of possibility and that are maybe not too intimidating for people like I’m dying to go in the life that maybe is probably down the line. But um, yeah, that’s really what it’s about. It’s about getting people interested in, in in parts of the world that they maybe wouldn’t have thought about going to before, because there’s so many beautiful hidden gems out there and really gorgeous places that people don’t know about. Because it what it does, it gives people a sense of confidence as well, when they go to these new places, which is maybe pushing themselves out of their comfort zone a little bit for them. And that that’s the kind of idea that’s the same idea with activities that we do as well.

Casey McGuire Davidson 22:51

That sounds amazing. I love that. And I know, you have talked about different destinations that you’ve been. Particularly, I think, Berlin is one that you were excited about coming up.

23:03

Yeah. So, you mean one of the trips that we were planning. Yeah, that was planned for this year actually, was really excited about that, but we’ve postponed it until next year. And on that trip, it’s a bit of an alternative quirky kind of trip. We have a street art night tour, we have a trip to a Cold War, a deserted Cold War spy station. We’re also going to be canoeing around the city checking the city out from a canoe, which is a really, really great perspective. And we’ve got a virtual reality escape room and some some other foodie elements to the trip as well. So where the city trips, definitely they are popular. And then we like to do a mix of these City County trips and then more rural trips with some more outdoor stuff.

Yeah, and what are those rural trips like like any place you’ve gone and loved in the past?

23:58

Yeah, so So basically, I was inspired to create this business in a little town little whitewashed village in the south of Spain called Ronda. And I started out with the trips in Ronda, it’s absolutely beautiful. It’s up on this. I don’t know if anybody’s seen it before. It’s a huge big gorge, the massive bridge and it’s just this very typical under Lucien type village. And on there, they have a beautiful lake nearby and we did moonlight kayaking and a night tour and things like that. So, I really love places like that. You know, okay, it’s a sample stain. It’s accessible for people, but it’s not somewhere that they may be thought of going for. It’s somewhere authentic, where they can experience authentic Spanish culture, and we tend to stay away. Well of course, places like Berlin have got tourists and many tourists go there. But we like to include lots of places as well that are off the beaten track a little bit are not the you know, not the typical tourist food, not the typical tourist activities. Yeah.

Casey McGuire Davidson 25:08

And I love as well, I know when I’ve traveled before, like doing your research before, and finding sort of the smaller local people who can kind of take you around, maybe in a group of like six or eight people. I know that like when I travel, when I travel, alcohol free planning is really important to me. So for example, when I went to Hawaii recently, or when I went to Greece, I wanted to go on a snorkeling tour in Hawaii and a sunset boat tour in Greece, off Santorini. I very specifically did not choose the big 50 person, party boat with unlimited drinks, I was like, Okay, I want to go for one that’s that smaller, fewer people, you know, featuring other things, of course, they will, you know, be drinks, they’re most likely. But if it’s not the focus, and you’re not surrounded by other people who, like I used to be getting your drink on is the most important thing that can really help. We went to Croatia and went to the island of a bar, and did this off road tour that picked us up and and took us into the mountains, we did a hike, we traveled around somewhere for a lunch where they just brought out these amazing food and went to lavender field. And again, that’s very different than going to a beach bar for the day, we still went to the beach. But we saw so much other stuff too. And we’re more active, because you kind of did your research ahead of time. So you don’t just sit there and look around and say, Oh, my God, everybody’s drinking.

26:48

Yeah, definitely, it’s definitely much more of a fulfilling experience. And what you were saying there about, you know, looking for the smaller group activities, people nowadays, they really want authentic experiences, because at the end of the day was an authentic experience, you feel more connected, you feel more connected to the local culture. And that’s what us humans are really all about at the end of the day is connection. I mean, a lot of people and there will be certain countries, you might get people from certain countries that visit a country where they don’t speak the language, and they prefer big groups, because it’s safety. And I get that that’s fine. But you know, the likes of us going to somewhere like Greece or going to Hawaii, you know, there’s no, there’s no real need for that. And you really can just venture off on these little small group tours and get just that bit of extra connection, which is just like I mentioned, so much more fulfilling. Yeah,

Casey McGuire Davidson 27:47

Yeah. And I think that, you know, I know, it’s not all about big European vacations or to fancy places, I think, you know, I’ve certainly Gone Camping with my kids and my husband or on road trips, regardless of where you go. I think that as women, a lot of times, we’re trying to make everyone else happy. We’re trying to make sure that like there’s harmony in the family, I know, I do that my husband’s happy that my son’s happy.

And I think that when you are ready to stop drinking, and you’re thinking of travel, one of the most important things you can do is think about what would be fun for you first, and prioritizing that? What would a relaxing vacation look like? What would an adventurous vacation look like? Where do you want to stay. And then you can think about everyone else and make it a win win. But just because your husband wants to go to an all inclusive in Mexico, where you guys have always drank, that doesn’t mean that you should stay there. Or a place where you have such strong associations with alcohol in the past. So you know, even going to a different camping destination where you can focus on the amazing coffee in the morning, or a cool hike or laying on a beach or going for a kayak. Just it helps sometimes to go to a new destination. And it really helps to not go to a place where the primary goal for most people is to drink. You know, just don’t set yourself up to be tortured.

29:26

Yeah. Do you know Casey, it’s a really good point. And it’s probably one of the most important points that I would I would talk about when when when people talk about sober travel. And you can use this kind of tactic for just real life when you quit alcohol as well. You’re not going to quit alcohol and go to a party, where you know, the next day where the booze will be everywhere and you feel really triggered on it. Like you said you’d be torturing yourself in the same way. If you you know the thought of going on a holiday to a fully inclusive where, you know, you’re just gonna feel terrible. It’s just a terrible idea at the end of the day and you do like to serve, you really need to prioritize yourself here. And, you know, if you are it is your husband that used to going to this all inclusive, it hopefully they would be open to trying something new as well. And yeah, you really need to you need to put yourself first.

Casey McGuire Davidson 30:24

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, just think it through as well. Like, if everybody drinks around the pool, or there’s big happy hours at you know, 4pm 5pm, sometimes 3pm. If you’re on vacation, you know, you can ask your partner to take care of the kids at that time or swim with the kids. And you can go for a walk by yourself, you can go for a bike ride, you can take a nap in a hammock, you can you know, and trade off, right? You can be like, Hey, how about I take the kids in the morning. And then at this time, you kind of use the time to reset. So you’re not sort of in during a drinking activity for multiple hours when you’re not drinking. And by the way, you’re going to figure out that you absolutely love that. You know, you love walking with a friend you love time alone, you love reading your book, and you never actually got that before.

31:21

Yeah, it’s just it’s the same way applies to real life. It’s not just a case of making the decision not to drink or cut down drinking you there are other changes that you have to make. And you can’t just expect to continue being in the same in exactly the same environment and doing the same thing. Because it’s an it’ll be an uphill struggle. And like you said, People often, you know, we need to focus on the positives, you might find that you you love these, you know, might take up some new hobby, or you might realize this is actually really, I’m really enjoying this. Whenever people quit, they tend to focus on what they they’re missing out. Because they haven’t had those experiences, yet those fulfilling experiences. And then as time goes on, they start to have more of those. And then they think less about what they’re missing out on and actually think well, I wasn’t really missing out on that much. Yes. I mean, I think even just imagining that your world is getting bigger and more exciting. And you’re bringing in new experiences when you travel alcohol free, rather than feeling like you’re missing out. So even just putting that intention out there, as you’re going on this trip. Like I can’t wait to see what this feels like when I’m not drinking and I can’t wait to mix it up and do something new, that can really sort of shift your mindset into a new place. That’s exciting.

Yeah, definitely. It really is just about changing your mindset. And I just thought of an A one other thing that people could do, it depends on whether you’re traveling alone, or whether or how much influence you have over the destination. But some people choose to go to places like Morocco or other countries where there isn’t such a big boozy scene. And some people might find that quite useful. And I went to Oh, man, when when I quit drinking, I had the choice of going I was supposed to go to Dubai because my sister was living in Dubai at the time, but she had to leave and I thought well, oh man just seems a lot more interesting up my street. But well, Dubai, you know, big party place. And I absolutely loved it. I stayed with the Omani family for a month in their huge big Villa ran. Well, they basically left me to it because they were busy. And it was Ramadan at the time, and I hadn’t realized it was Ramadan. And so that was that was quite challenging and 40 degree heat because the gas visitors aren’t allowed to drink either during daylight hours. So I would probably check I would check out if you’re going to a Muslim country check check when Ramadan is just to make sure you’re going to be okay with that if you end up there at that time, but yeah, another another really good tip.

Casey McGuire Davidson 34:16

And the other thing, just in terms of getting super practical, is you can and I know for business travel, this is really big or when you’re traveling alone, I don’t know about you, but like my favorite thing was drinking in my hotel room by myself. Somehow I thought that was really awesome. And so I used to always go down to the hotel bar, have a couple of drinks, and then like ask them for a glass to go. So yes, I was super classy. But when you go to a hotel, you can really easily call ahead and say, Hey, I don’t drink Do you mind taking the alcohol out of the minibar. And that, by the way is no big deal. But people at the front desk don’t care the people to removing that shit don’t doesn’t care. But you’re not sort of, especially in the early days alone in a hotel room with alcohol by yourself, you know, away. And so that can be a great thing to do in advance. I know when we went to Amsterdam, or when we go to Airbnbs, a lot of times they advertise in the Airbnb Oh, and we’re gonna leave you this bottle of wine. Or people comment on how nice that was. I just in my note, say, and by the way, I don’t drink. So no need to leave the wine. But if you have anything else, awesome, that’s non-alcoholic, that would be lovely. And that, again, you’re not having the conversation you’re not walking in. And they’re sort of presenting you here’s your wine, it’s just off the table. And it really is not a big deal. The other thing is airports, like on business trips, I used to, you know, my co workers after a big meeting, were flying home, they would all go to the bar. And I used to to one thing I did was I started going to those massage places in the in the airports, I would go there put my name on the list, usually a 20 minute wait. And you know, I thought I’d be missing out on all this debrief and bonding. I really wasn’t I never after the fact, you know, felt like I had missed out on some great opportunity. But instead, I probably spent the exact same money on a massage that I would have spent on drinks. And I’m just like, Hey, I never get a chance to do this. My life is so busy. It was lovely. And I get to come back and talk to them. But they’re sort of wrapping up.

38:45

Yeah, no, those are really, really valuable tips, I’d say. And personally, I wasn’t. I haven’t been in the same situation. Because whenever I quit drinking, then I came back and I was working and we love listed but I do have friends that talked about what you send in the hotel they would associate the hotel with with drinking quite a lot. And even though I did do that in the past, nowadays I don’t. Yeah, like I said, I was about to say I’m going to be traveling with Mark, but that’s kind of obvious because of the head. Yeah,

Casey McGuire Davidson 39:17

but your travel is amazing. Because you always get to be around cool people on these alcohol free adventures.

39:25

Yeah, that’s true. I mean, until now I have been I’ve been eating the trips, I’ve been the main person leading them but and the plan was always to step away from that role and get other lots of other people involved. And that’s what’s happening. Now I mentioned to you that I’m pregnant. So I’ve got six weeks left.

39:43

Congratulations.

Yeah, and it’s all it’s all been happening and so so yeah, it travel is a big part of my job and I’m planning to continue that the I like the stuffing out of the places. More so these days.

Casey McGuire Davidson 39:58

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And I think you know, you mentioned, you’re pregnant. And something that has really helped me on trips is to, you know, when you have a baby, if anyone’s listening has had kids, you know, in the beginning, it’s like you, you put them on this rotation, right? It’s like, eat, sleep, play or eat plate, place to sleep. It’s like this round robin, right? You just, I used to call it like feeding the meter with each one of those, right? It’s on this continual cycle. And when you’re traveling, you kind of need to keep that in mind, too. So it’s super hard to go hard all day. And by the end of the day, not having your willpower being rundown, especially if you’re with kids, but even by yourself. So you know, what I found is I went to like Disney and universal with my kids. And what we would do is go in the morning, and then after lunch, come back to the hotel, jump in the pool, take a nap, take some downtime, and then go back in the evening. Same thing when we went to Greece or even Mexico, like taking a break, and having that time plan, so you can sort of rest and recoup helps you not be exhausted by the end of the day. And just planning that in is really great.

41:20

Yeah, definitely. It’s something that I’m going to have to think about moving forward. It’s kind of unknown territory for me, but I’m definitely planning to keep doing what I’m doing. And I’m traveling when when the baby comes along, we’ll just be it’ll just be a little bit. Quite a bit different.

Casey McGuire Davidson 41:38

Yeah, yeah. In the beginning, you can, you can go almost anywhere. But as they get older, you know, in the toddler years, you definitely have to adjust a little bit better. We went to Hawaii when my son was four months old at the end of my maternity leave. And that was really cool as well.

41:57

Yeah, Hawaii, I’ve got, I’ve got a good friend there. And I think I mentioned to him I mentioned him to you before, when I quit drinking in South Korea, that weekend that I quit drinking, I was just about to head off on a on a trek. And things had gotten really, really pretty bad for me there. And I decided, right, this weekend, I’m going off to this island, I’m going to try and not drink because something’s got to change here. And I got on this bus. It was an overnight bus, a group trip. And I had an empty seat beside me and a guy comes up and he said, Well, can I sit beside you. And I, you know, wasn’t necessarily feeling like chatting so much because I was I was at the end of my tether, basically. But it turns out he was Korean American, and he had quit drinking also. And around the same age, he was a little bit older than me. And that was just such a good support. For me, we became friends. His name is Sam. He lives in Hawaii now. And I’d love to put a trip together. And we love this trip, hopefully with his health. I’m not sure if you’ve seen this. But yeah, love to do your trek there in Hawaii. It’s just learning how you these people come into your life when times when you you know, I was in a desperate situation there and words. And part of that happened because you were actually open. Right?

Did you mention to him that you you know, we’re needing to take a break from alcohol that you didn’t want to drink on this trip? Or that you were in a place where you were needing to walk away from it? Like how did that come up? Yeah, I must have because I brought the topic up. I can’t remember how exactly, but I must I think I mentioned to him that I decided to quit drinking at that at that time. And He then said, Well, I actually quit so many years ago, I felt really because you know at the time, I was living in an expat community in South Korea. And there was literally in my mind no one, including Korea and Korean street quite a lot. There was no one that didn’t drink or there was no one that was going through what I was going through. So yeah, it was hit, I was being open about it. And I suppose when you first do quit, you are you do tend to be quite open and you share

Casey McGuire Davidson 44:24

where you’re sort of in that vulnerable position. And this is something really big that you’re doing in your life. So it’s hard to not talk about it at all. I mean, I remember I was taking guitar lessons at my home. When I would stop stopping drinking. It was sort of one of those like, I used to play guitar for years. And then after I started drinking a lot and had my kids I just I hadn’t played in like six years. And so I was like, Okay, I’m not drinking, I’m taking my money I would have spent on booze and I’m going to take some guitar lessons again. And the guy showed up and he was like, so what inspired you to do this again? And I was like, Well, actually, I recently stopped drinking. And so I’m jumping into this. And he was like, Oh, I stopped drinking seven years ago. And it’s just the word there are so many people out there who don’t drink, and you kind of make those connections when you start, because he was like, good for you. That’s amazing. And I kind of needed to hear that.

45:25

Yeah, no, totally. There’s so many more people out there that don’t drink the nice thing. And he actually just imagine that everybody does. And you’re like, who doesn’t drink? I mean, when you look at that survey from the New York Times, literally, in their research, they said 29% of people, or 29% of people said that they plan to take an alcohol free trip. That’s a huge percentage of people. And of course, not all of them are wanting to quit drinking, but the sort of sober curious, the health and wellness like, there is more out there, both people and opportunities, then, you know, because you haven’t been looking for it.

46:07

Yeah, exactly. The whole sober, curious movement is is huge. I mean, that wasn’t my case, I decided to quit for good. Because, yeah, just the best decision for me. But I think it’s great. If you know, there’s people out there they, you know, they decide on a random night out just to drink an alcohol free drink. They don’t want to feel like crap the next day. I mean, yeah, it’s really glowing here in the UK as well, to really get to see what one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you after reading this article on the feature on we love lucid is you’re one of the companies out there that are offering alcohol free vacations, sober travel, adventure, and experiences that are not 12 step based. So tell me about that. And how your trips are maybe different from some of the other ones out there. 

47:01

Yeah, I’m glad you mentioned that that’s actually something that sets us apart from most of the companies. I mean, they’re not a lot of companies around that are there doing what I’m doing, which is great for me, gives me a really good head start. And I’m really happy to be to be leading this movement. But yes, there are a few out there. And most of them include a corporate some kind of 12 step program into their trips. And when I was doing the research shut the beginning, I really thought yeah, it would be good to have something trips for people who don’t necessarily didn’t go down that road because it can be and perhaps a little bit unfamiliar or intimidating for somebody who is maybe say just sober curious, or, or is quitting drinking, but it’s not into the 12 step. You know, framework, which I did, I also knew that I needed to stop drinking. And I, you know, tried to moderate for years and was was definitely not just sober, curious, it was it was definitely an issue in my life. But I was not going down the 12 step route. So I needed to find something that was outside of that. And I know, I would have loved to go on one of your trips early on, because it sounds wonderful.

48:22

Yeah, you know, you’re totally right. And I have a similar similar situation to you. I needed also, I also needed to quit, but I didn’t go down the 12 step route. Some people do. Some people don’t tell personal choice. But I think it’s, you know, it’s really important to have something out there these alcohol free travel experiences for for both beings. Both of these people can go on these trips. And what we really do is just focus on these really invigorating experiences and connecting people getting people to try new things together. And yeah, that the feedbacks been great and people just people just really love it.

Casey McGuire Davidson 49:06

Yeah. And it is helpful. I know of a couple different experiences that are that are different than we love lucid, but also wonderful. I mean first, any sort of health and wellness vacation package, something yoga, meditation, hiking, these types of things tend to clearly focus a lot less on drinking. I am a she recovers coach and we have been part of the she recovers organization for many years. And I one of the first trips I went on was they do a yoga retreat to salt spring Island in BC. And so we stay on this gorgeous farm. Not all the women are in recovery from alcohol, you know, women come who are in recovery from divorce or the loss of a loved one or cancer or you know, all things, but there are a lot of women have quit drinking. There is no alcohol or drugs around, which is really lovely. And you know, you get three incredible meals cooked for you each day. You sit at these communal farm tables, you have yoga in the morning in the evening, you can have massages, we went to the local farmers market, but most of what it was was talking with other women and someone would pick up a guitar and play and we would have sharing circles and nap on the lawn and sit in hammocks and talk and it. It felt like I was 16 years old again. I mean, it felt so joyful and pure. And especially as a wife and a mom and someone who worked a corporate job. I was like, You mean someone’s going to take care of me for five days, and I’m gonna do whatever I want. And that was incredible, too.  

Yeah, I mean, it’s just it’s the real connection. You’re having real conversations. If you think about those times, we’ve gone away and you’ve met people out Sunday, you know, you’ve been drinking and Oh, goodness, I wake up the next day thinking what on earth was I talking? There’s not nothing really, you know, after a certain time, you just, there’s nothing meaningful going on.

I didn’t remember things. I A lot of times I thought I was having an amazing time. My husband was pissed. No shit. Because I was talking to like, all the guys, everyone else. I thought I was really funny. He could not drag me away from the bar. And he was bored out of his mind. I didn’t I was stumbling on the way home. You know, I couldn’t remember things. I was definitely not safe. Like, thank God, he was always with me. But you know, he was sort of babysitting me. And then the next morning, I was brutally hangovers. So it was, yeah, when you look back, you’re like, How fun was that? Really? Yeah, exactly, exactly.

52:06

There’s no comparison, really. And you probably found that these connections that you’ve made with these people, they’re, they’re deeper connections. They’re less superficial, they’re, they’re more memory more long, longer lasting. And these experiences you’re talking about with the yoga and they’ve got a kind of spiritual aspect to them. And they’re amazing on a personal level, I really enjoy these kinds of things, too. Because that they already exists. There are there are a few of these things around. So also what I’m trying to do something a little bit different, more sort of activity activity based. And I’d love to do a retreat kind of vibe in the future, but kind of steered away from that from that for now, because I love the activity based I mean, I think that’s amazing. And when you’ve told me about some of the trips you’ve taken since you quit drinking, I mean, they sound so adventurous. Like what were I know you were in South Korea, but after you left there, where did you go? Cuz I was amazed when we talked about it.

53:12

Yeah, well, after South Korea, I traveled around Japan for a while. I often I would choose my destinations, and it’ll be something that I come across, maybe in a book or you know, online, I’m, well, that place looks quite cool. And I’d found this island, which is actually still an active, dormant or active volcano in the Sea of Japan or at what it’s off the east coast of Japan anyway. And it’s a huge big crater and there’s a little town on it. Yeah, it’s an active volcano. And you have to get a boat to one island. And then you have to get helicopter to another island to the main volcanic island. I can’t hold that shame. I think it’s called. And I thought, wow, that’s it. I’m going there. I want to just to go to the almost the most off the beaten track place that I could possibly think and that was mainly to do as well because I’ve been living in in Seoul, which is a huge city with you know, 20 million people, including the outskirts and a lot of mental stimulation. But then yeah, that was one of my first stop. I ended up I couldn’t get to the island because the boat broke down in the middle of the sea and but then yeah, after that, I went to Mongolia. I’ve always had this lifelong dream of galloping across the Mongolian stack on horseback. And I’ve always loved horses from young age and I did that I said with the nomadic people in the garrison, the traditional houses. I went to Siberia, which was absolutely spectacular. I stayed on an island which has the deepest lake in the world and the oldest lake in the world. And yeah, Bosnia and Oman, just you know, places where ISIS I’ve always interested me, but I’ve never got around to going because I was always spending my money on booze and behind bars. So yeah, completely.

And when you say, cuz I know people listening to this may be like, Oh my god, everything you’re talking about is expensive. And I don’t have that I mean, first you can create a vacation anywhere, and you know, look at national parks and, and state parks and and places all around you, it doesn’t have to be hugely expensive you but you still if you’re like me, I drank, you know, every single day. So every vacation I’d ever taken involve drinking, right? That was a huge component of it. So you know, wherever you go, you can and take these practical steps to plan them that don’t include alcohol. But also, I want to say that you will save a ton of money just not drinking. So I put this app on my phone. It was a big motivator. It’s called I’m done drinking. And you not only calculate Yes, your days, and the number of bottles not consumed, which for me, was crazy. It was like 40 bottles of wine a month. So that’s a lot not to ingest, but also the dollars that you’re saving. So I saved $550 in my first 30 days, over $1600 in 90 days. And to date, it’s been well over five years I’ve saved $35,000 not consuming poison. So yeah, go to Mongolia. I mean, you know, that’s crazy and big and huge. But like, you can save money for two years and go on a huge vacation. Three years, four years like dream.

56:48

Yeah, no, totally. I mean, the money that I didn’t even spend a lot of money in that trip, to be honest. But I was able to pay for it. Because in halfway through Korea, I decided to quit. And I was working there as a teacher. I mean, I was a teacher, it wasn’t a huge paying job, but they pay for your accommodation. I think I managed to save something like 12,000 pounds, which maybe about 17 or 18,000. Just thinking, just not drinking and spending my money recklessly. Yeah. And I always thought I mean, that was over the space of about two, two years. 

57:28

Honestly, like I always have myself down somebody who is irresponsible with money. Don’t get me wrong. I like you know, I have this mentality that money comes money goes and it’s almost a trust thing. I do work for it also. But yeah, it made me realize and a lot of people do this too. They realize, Oh, I can save quite a lot money and put it into things that I really enjoy doing. And I didn’t spend all that my trip. I mean, I brought some of that back as well. But by doing the different sort of cultural exchanges and things like that, my trip actually didn’t cost me that much. So if you do want to go to Mongolia and these places, I mean, I wasn’t staying in hotels, occasionally. Yes. For the contracts from staring in a dare with, you know, sleeping on the floor and then going and staying in a occasionally I booked myself into a really nice hotel because it just feels so good after you’ve been maybe slumming it in Mongolia for five days, you know. 

Casey McGuire Davidson 58:25

When I know my mother in law, which I think is amazing at the age of like 66 went hiking the El Camino in Portugal with a bunch of girlfriends. And that was a trip she never thought she’d taken her life and you’re hiking all day and someone delivers your bags to you know, basically a b&b or hotel. But again, there is a lot out there that is not focused on drinking, regardless of your age, regardless of how much money you have. You can go big you can go economical, you will save a lot of money, not drinking. So even planning that I think it’s a huge motivator, like being like, I’m gonna save my alcohol money that I’m not consuming in a sober trip fund. And that’s a big motivation.

One other thing I wanted to say so I went to Venice and Croatia and Slovenia, when I was four months sober. It was a big trip. It was it was you know, I remember telling my sober coach on day 16. I talked to her and saying, Okay, I’m really worried because I’m going on this trip to Italy with my with my mom and my sister and holy shit, what am I going to do? And she was like, Okay, okay, yeah, when’s that trip? And I was like, yeah, it’s 110 days from now or whatever. And she was like, let’s talk about that.

100 days from now, like it was. And I actually think it’s helpful to plan it in advance like we’re talking about, like, Think it through, think about what you’re going to do. Plan activities based on your intention to not drink But she was right in terms of like, you don’t need a future trip, if you have a trip 30 days out 60 days out six months out, I’ve heard people worrying about it like you will be in so much of a more solid place at that time than you are, in the early days are when you’re thinking about drinking, and it’s gonna be amazing. So don’t have your trip, be a reason why you’re going to drink for four more months.

I was so happy I didn’t drink on that trip or didn’t drink again, after I had three, four months of sobriety. Because I know I would have looked back for the rest of my life, and be like, Oh, shit, I had this period of alcohol free. And I went back to drinking and then I was climbing my way out of drinking again, for a long time, like I would have looked at it with regret. And instead, if you put this like sober trip front ahead or set this intention, as a reward as a sober treat, that you get to do this thing, because you’re not drinking, it can serve as a motivation, not a reason to never get started.

1:01:10

Yeah, definitely. I think it’s important to have those those little things to look forward to definitely and to treat ourselves with, even if it’s a short, short kind of event. I mean, did they have any sober events where you were, you’re based in your city?

I’m a member of this great group. Like I said, if she recovers, they’ve sharing circles, we actually have a really strong group of very cool women with more joining every day in Seattle. So we’ve gone on group things like there was a sober pop up bar sans bar, where they came to town, and they were, you know, with a bar for a night, all these non alcoholic drinks. So that was really fun. We’ve had groups come for yoga retreats, just for the day, and we’ve all gone to that. And then we sort of get together one of my friends has a farm with goats and, you know, we go there and kind of hanging out. So there are definitely activities around that, you know, we get together as sort of women who quit drinking and we all bond and we have a lovely time.

But there’s also a lot going on with people who don’t just prioritize drink, eat so much. So when I quit drinking, I signed up for the wanderlust, mindful triathlon. That’s something that actually travels all around the US and Canada. I’m not sure if they’re International, but they can be a one day event, or a three day event. And you know, in the one I did, you did a 5k run, you can walk to you do a big giant yoga session with like 100 women and a few men in a field, and a group meditation and a dance party. And then there are all these like, breakout things you could do, like you could do try aerial yoga, or, you know, face painting. I mean, it was just incredibly fun. And they were serving kombucha like it was amazing and not alcohol based. So I think we all think of the concerts we always go to drinking or, you know, all the events, and there is a ton out there that maybe you’ve never even looked for.

1:03:25

Yeah, yeah, it seems to be that the focus is is shifting. And it’s, it’s really encouraging to see the these bars pop up as well. I was having a look on LinkedIn the other day, and I think it was talking about seven, seven bars in the US. These are called free bars. The songs bar I’m aware of. I’ve heard of them. I follow them on Instagram. But yeah, hopefully we’ll see lots more of these kinds of things popping up.

Casey McGuire Davidson 1:03:51

Yeah, absolutely. The other thing I wanted to mention that really helped me was I had a reminder on my phone. So when I first stopped drinking, I created these sort of iPhone, you know, backgrounds with quotes, you can do it in Canva, a bunch of them exist. And I put them as my screensaver, my lock screen. So whenever my phone went off, it was what you saw, and also my background. And that really helped me because I don’t know about you, but I look at my phone literally about 200 times a day. And you know, it’s just my camera. People call me people text me. It’s my phone, my alarm clock. So on it when I went to Venice, I put this quote on my lock screen that said, I didn’t come this far to only come this far. Yeah. And that to me was just like, I’m not going back. I’m not like I have done for months. I’m going to keep going and so I’m not going to be like well I did four months I drank Just kidding. I’m gonna drink for another, however long because we know how hard it is to restart. So having that kind of daily, hourly reminder when you’re, you know, craving a drink or seen other people drinking that can be super good. And then the other thing I do, which is kind of crazy, but I love colorful jewelry is every place I go, I buy a new really cool necklace. So I did it incentives and creation, Amsterdam and Greece, but it and Mexico, but it’s kind of like, instead of spending my money on alcohol, I have this great reminder of my trip that I get to wear. And so that’s kind of cool, too. I mean, there’s so many ways to enjoy a place without, you know, drinking all day. Yeah, no, definitely, I’m pretty sure that I did something similar to that, actually, you mentioning that the jewelry. But yeah, why not? I mean, this is money, you’d be saving, otherwise, you’d be sending out booze. And you know, any little thing that helps you mentioned the little kind of affirmations. And there, there are quite a lot of apps currently out there. I mean, I’m not too sure, but I’m familiar with myself. And for me, I also use these kinds of affirmations and, but more for, for example, you know, whenever you quit drinking, you then have your own kind of emotional recovery to do and, you know, in some areas of life more than others. So on my Instagram, I follow quite a lot of accounts that talk about positive mindset. And we’ve got lots of these kinds of affirmations. And I always save I save the ones on Instagram that I find that are really meaningful, meaningful for me. And then I go back, and I look at those when I’m going through a bit of a tough moment. And I suppose the same could apply for the drinking, you know, if you’re, you’re feeling triggered, or you’re going through tough moment, have a look at these. And they really just bring it back to you why I’m doing this, and how I know it’s possible to keep going.

Casey McGuire Davidson 1:06:57

Well, I love putting useful links in the show notes and things we talk about. So we’d love to of course, we’ll share all your information. But if you have two or three of your favorite Instagram accounts to share, and of course, that sober travel women’s group on Facebook, send me those links, because I want to share them out with people as ways to help. Yeah, sure, I’d be happy to. The other thing that obviously I, a lot of the women I work with go on sort of their very first sober trip while we’re working together. And one thing that helps is to really reflect on what you’re doing differently, and what’s good, because you’re not drinking. So for me, it was I would, when I was in Mexico, instead of being home over and drinking, I would, you know, tuck in early, which was lovely at with a good book. And then I would actually wake up at 6am and get my cup of coffee and go sit on this beach when no one else was awake. And it was absolutely beautiful. And just kind of take some pictures and be quiet out there. So that was something that I was like, I get to do this. And I would never have seen this. If I was drinking. I also have you know, my clients text me.

And I wanted to share two things that they sent me on sort of their first alcohol free trip ever. One of my clients went on a trip to Hawaii with a girlfriend and of course, she’d always drank on all of these trips, and she did all the prep things that help right telling her friend she wasn’t drinking, planning ahead for what she would want to do. You know, all the other things texting me texting someone who who, you know, supports them. But she also said that the night before she had been pretty envious of her friend drinking a giant Margarita and two glasses of wine, which is normal, right? completely normal. We’d love drinking. So it’s hard. You know, it’s normal to be jealous. But then she said we had a hike plan for the morning. It was her idea, her friend’s idea originally. And she got up at 6am walked on the beach, watch the sunrise by herself, came back and our friend bailed on the hike because she was feeling you know, lazy. And she went by herself and had the most amazing time she said the views were incredible altitude was wonderful. And she’s you know this she wouldn’t have traded the solitude and the beauty and the all for a couple of drinks the night before. And that was incredible. Like just saying, Yeah, I was jealous. And this was something amazing that I will remember for the rest of my life and I would not have done this if I had been drinking.

1:09:53

Yeah, I mean, it’s hard to put into words how good those kinds of experiences make You feel when you, you know, you kind of accept them and you, you no longer you no longer see this whole quitting losing as a losing situation. You’re just like, wow, you know what, what, what am I missing out on? And it’s not to say that you should think, oh, I’ve missed out on so many things. But personally, I can relate to the, you know, the stories that you talked about going in the hiking going on the beach. I mean, whenever I quit drinking in Korea, I bought a bike and I cycled down the east coast of Korea. And every morning I got up. And if I was near a beach, I would get up and watch the sunset Sunset from the east coast of career. Absolutely, absolutely beautiful. And yeah, there really just are no words to describe those kinds of experiences. So yeah, I can really relate to that. 

Yeah. And you know, another client is like texting me pictures of this gorgeous street drink. And saying that she you know, never tried these drinks before. Because I know, we think there’s nothing to drink if you don’t drink alcohol, and said she had never tried this fresh coconut and strawberry drink. And it was like the best thing she had ever tasted in her whole life. Sounds amazing. And she knew what there are. So especially because some kind of tropical, there are so many delicious things out there that you can drink. And as well alcohol free drinks in general. I know they’re not for everybody. But there really is the choice is growing. And there’s so many tasty things that don’t even have to be filled with sugar. And

Casey McGuire Davidson 1:11:36

well, a couple things like go in the winter, you go somewhere where you’re snowshoeing or skiing or hiking or whatever, like hot chocolate, the things you’ve never experienced, since you were a kid like a hot chocolate cocoa with like marshmallows in it. That can be amazing. And you know, like you said, I personally love non alcoholic beer. And I went to Amsterdam and was incredibly happily surprised that not a cold beer was actually everywhere. Like every restaurant, every bar, I went to my cousin’s house they drink they don’t know that I quit drinking before I got there. They just had non alcoholic beer in their fridge just because they were like, sometimes we feel like tasting a beer but don’t want to get a buzz. I was like, Who are you? You know, but it’s not as unusual as you think it is when you’re so focused on drinking or not drinking as being so huge and, and scary in your life.

1:12:38

Yeah, and it can really help a lot of people. And for me, it just adds some extra sense of joy to situation. If I can go out there and don’t come in high water and everything. But let’s be honest, when you’re going out, you might walk you want something a bit extra special, and whether that’s a kombucha and I actually have two two boxes will convert you hear from one of my trips because we we have our coffee drinks tasting and all of our trips as well. 

1:13:08

Yeah, it’s a big part of all of our trips. We sometimes have people from the companies themselves might do a tasting as they go into it a bit more depth, or the organizer will do it and yeah, wide range of alcohol free drinks. But of course, if people don’t want to drink them, they don’t have to. But yeah, it’s just, you know, why should people that don’t drink have to sit with the crappy glass? That Yeah, Coca Cola or, you know, why should the drinkers have all the fun and I think the drink drinks industry is waking up to that now. Here it’s it’s just huge. I mean, I’m about to launch a trip tomorrow. It’s it’s a bit it’s a girls weekend in London. Actually. It’s happening in October. And we’ve got an experience with a friend Alex Alex Norwood Hill, and he’s the first sober smile. Yay. Yeah, yeah, he’s great. He’s gonna do an experience with and very, he chooses really great drinks, really high quality really great tasting drinks. And he’s going to do it to be unexperienced with drinks and mocktails so that’s going to be super but I’ve had clients so when I for example, go to a place with my husband, he still drinks and so he brings his drinks.

To this day, I’m like no fucking wine in my house. Like, you know, I wouldn’t drink it but like why why would have it there? But you know, we’ll go and I’ll pick up my non alcoholic beer and bring it so I have stuff to drink or ginger beer or kombucha or whatever your jam is because you still you know you still like to have those drinks at home. I have a client who was going to Hawaii and actually I order from athletic Brewing Company and Ruby that has a really awesome non-alcoholic Prosecco. And she’s like, I just shipped a case of, you know, just sent a case of the athletic Brewing Company beer to, you know where I’m staying, because I want to have it there. So there’s a lot you can do, where you’re not going to feel like, Oh my god, I’m just sitting here with water, it just takes long thinking about it in advance. And that’s really awesome. The other thing I wanted to mention was, I know for a lot of people going to see family is a big trigger, like either family vacations, what you know, in the summer, or especially at holidays. And one thing I want to encourage, especially if your family can be a trigger, or overwhelming, or they drink a lot, is think about getting your own Airbnb or hotel room or something right nearby, like having a place to retreat at the end of the day, or to leave early and not be surrounded by all that can be really helpful, not just for not drinking, but for mental health as well. Like You’re a grown up somehow. I’m in my mother’s house, I am suddenly a 13 year old girl. Whenever with all the resentments that annoyances and everything else, like it doesn’t matter that I’m 45. And so you know, if possible, you can make any excuse, you can blame your kids, you can blame your husband, you can blame work. But a lot of women I work with have said that they’ve done that. And it’s just been game changing in terms of feeling happier.

1:16:39

Yeah, well, I mean, your family, they know how to push your buttons, and you can get easily triggered. And but I think it’s really good advice, what you said and, and often just in general, if I have if I know that I have to go to some kind of event like that, or you need to be able to get away usually a bit earlier, you know, people that quit, so they’re not drinking, they don’t tend to want to stay up as late as everyone else. And some people do some people get really into that. But it’s nice to have to be able to get away to get away to get some quiet and yeah,

Casey McGuire Davidson 1:17:16

yeah, yeah, absolutely. And one of the things we were talking about, I know we’ve talked about, we love looses awesome, like activity destination trips, where you have a lot going on, we’ve talked about yoga and meditation retreats, which are lovely as well. One of my friends who I’ve had on the podcast, Margaret Ward, who runs recovery run adventures, I’m not a runner, but I always aspire to be, and I’ve never done it. But she runs trips that are really cool, where you go to Iceland, or Norway or Italy and you run like a half marathon or a marathon with a group of a small group of other women who are alcohol free, as well. And so you know, you run they’re not all amazing fast runners, it’s for the experience, but you also do a tour and experience the city and stay in a in a beautiful place. So there is so much out there, and you can really find stuff based on your hobbies as well.  

1:18:25

Yeah, you know, that’s a really good idea. And you’d be surprised how many people would quit booth get into running it’s actually a huge it’s quite a big thing a lot of people do I suppose it you know, you don’t need much you can get out and you you start small and you build it up and people start to feel really good. So I’m not surprised that’s taken off from Margaret. I am I do I think we’re connected somehow on social media and yeah, great idea.

Casey McGuire Davidson 1:18:51

Yeah, absolutely. So I know you’ve given people such amazing ideas and inspiration and ways they can think about alcohol free travel, is there anything else you want to share?

1:19:04

You know, I always say Just don’t be afraid to think outside the box a little bit. And to to push yourself I know this phrase is used all the time, push yourself out of that comfort zone. It doesn’t mean to be something extreme, you don’t need to climb Everest or but think about just doing something differently because it will give you that extra confidence. Think about maybe going away on your own. You’ll you really won’t regret it the connections that you make. Just Yeah, don’t be afraid to try something new. That’s what I would definitely say.

Casey McGuire Davidson 1:19:41

I love that. And of course we’re gonna put links in the show notes to your amazing trips and hopefully people can follow you on social media to see what you’re up to.

1:19:52

Yeah, and the idea was always to do international trips Casey it’s just with the the current situation we scaled it back to two UK trip. And actually before COVID hitch I’d say 14, almost half of my customers that had signed on for the Spanish trip. We’re from North America. And they’re signed up to my newsletter and I’m watching what’s going on. So, I’ll be good to get it. It’ll be good to get them back on board as soon as I start doing trips, and I was thinking, Well, I’m planning. I’ve got an idea for Colorado putting one together in Colorado, also the mole deeds. Oh, wow. Yeah, there’s

Casey McGuire Davidson 1:20:34

I would love to come on one of your trip someday. That’s definitely bucket list for me.

1:20:39

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I want this to I want this to grow. I want people to be able to come on our trips all over the world. It’s, it’s not purely a UK thing. That’s just for now.

Casey McGuire Davidson 1:20:50

Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on. This was great.

1:20:55

Yeah, thank you. It’s been great to chat to you.