Yeah, well, and it’s also the idea of and you know, I think I did an episode was someone on Twitter where the labeling of it as a disease might have been. So health insurance covers it or so, you know, so some so it’s categorized as a disease and, and I don’t have all the information on it. But even as we were, we were talking about, you know, a 12 Steps helps so many so many people. In terms of the stigma, though, the idea that you’re powerless over it again, puts you as the problem, right, as opposed to the substance being the problem as designed because it is designed to be addictive. And same thing, right? If someone’s quit smoking, everybody’s like, good for you. That’s bad for you. Like, that’s addictive, man. And so everybody’s like, celebrates you for doing that. Same thing with like, cocaine or heroin or meth or Oxycontin, right? People are like, of course, you got addicted to it, right? That shits addictive. Like, if you have some of it, you’re likely to want more. And it’s likely to be incredibly hard to moderate that right? There’s no question in our mind like that is bad and addictive and dangerous. But alcohol because it’s everywhere in society. And nobody wants to give up their alcohol of choice. Like I think we all have this like, Oh, my God, prohibition, they’re going to take it away from us. I So everybody’s like, I can’t even question that. That’s bad. If anyone has an issue, quote, unquote, we’re going to blame the person because then the substance doesn’t need to be questioned.

 

28:59

Yeah, absolutely. And it can be infuriating when you’re going through it, you know, because it’s like, then it puts so much shame and blame on you like, Oh, great. I’m one of those people who just can’t handle it. Or maybe I drink too much. I did this to myself, you know, like, yeah, like playing thought pattern, too. And it’s, it’s crazy, because it’s really like when you study exactly the science of alcohol, and especially what we were talking about a little earlier, like it does create this high in your brain, and then you crash. And so when you’re crashing, all your brain wants is more what will bring it at high again. And so like and, you know, plus like it’s expected to have another drink, nobody stops at one drink most of the time, you know, and the thing with the term alcoholic that really drives me nuts is it’s not even met a medically approved like term anymore. You know, like in the DSM five, which is the latest category of kind of like mental issues and different syndromes. They don’t use the term alcoholic and they don’t use the term alcoholism, you know, it’s called alcohol use disorder, and there’s varying degrees of alcohol use disorder and the mildest one. Basically every drinker could have should qualify for that like really the bar is kind of low. And then obviously the heaviest part of that is like a lot heavier a lot more of that physical addiction that we’re talking about. So for any like Doctor therapist or anyone really with like the credentials to know better to use the even the word alcoholic I feel like is misleading and kind of dangerous because you’re really like putting a line between the sand between problem drinker and normal drinker. Yeah, personally, Casey, I don’t think normal drinkers exist whatsoever. I don’t, here’s what I do believe I really don’t I believe, I think occasional drinkers exist. And I think when you have this idea of a normal drinker, what you really mean is an occasional drinker. Now, occasional drinker is someone who literally drinks only a few times a year, right? They’re the type of person who could have a glass of wine and leave half of it. That’s because they drink. So occasionally, it’s never really imprinted on their brain, you know, but someone who’s drinking every week for years, they’re drinking above the health guidelines, there’s no way you know what I mean? Or it slowly starts to creep up. So like the to me, there really is no such thing as a normal, like regular drinker, what they really mean by that is occasional drinker. And you know, some people who do like stop really easily at one, like, you look back at their history and their patterns, they’ve never really drink that much alcohol to begin with, you know, they mean, it’s never really had the time to imprint on them. So I hate I hate that, like, you know, the black and white thinking of either normal drinker or problematic drinker.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  31:25

But really, it’s a myth I had for a long time talking about, like, I feel like that’s the Holy Grail. Right? Like, everybody’s, every woman I talked to is like, I just want to be a normal drinker. Right, whatever that is. And I just want to be able to go out and have two drinks a night. And what I always say is like, you have no idea what other people quote unquote, normal drinkers’ relationship with alcohol is. Because when I was drinking a lot, like I only did part of my drinking with people, right? And it wasn’t even conscious. It wasn’t even like, I’m gonna hide how much I’m drinking from people. It was like, I’m putting on my makeup before a date night. So I’m having a glass of something. And then I go out, and I don’t want to drink too much and drive home or whatever. So I would only drink some or in a restaurant, you can’t have like six drinks, right? The waitress just doesn’t come back that often. And it’s kind of weird. You know, so unless you’re at a party, so maybe you’re out you have two or you have three, then I come home. And then I’m like, Ooh, I have some wine open, or I want one more like I’m having a good conversation with my husband. My addictive brain is also like, have another have another, so then I would drink more. So anyone out of the restaurant with me. I mean, most people knew I would love to drink and drank a lot or whatever. But they wouldn’t necessarily be like, oh my god, she had six drinks tonight.

 

32:53

Yeah, yeah. And you know, you bring up another good point, like one we have no idea, right? What other people’s habits really are. But I’ll even men who only have one or two drinks per occasion, right? Like, that’s their limit, you know, mentally locked on that habit. Even though it’s only one or two, like that’s like the oh my god, if only I could only have one or two is what other people think some people only have one or two and they’re still locked on the habit. They cannot remove the habit easily. So it’s like, it’s not this Dreamland. Right. And, you know, for me moderation. It felt like depriving yourself because you’re still telling your brain, this is a great thing. This is a treat, you know, we get to have it. Like I remember sitting in a restaurant and only having one drink. And then just being like, oh my gosh, this is gonna go faster. Like, I’m really milking as the waiter like, I was so freakin’ preoccupied. And I was like, almost like disappointed, like, oh, I don’t get another drink, you know? And I like wasn’t having a good time, you know?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  33:52

Yeah. Well, that’s another myth that people ask me about all the time. Like, they’re like, will I go through the rest of my life constantly thinking about alcohol? And the answer is no. Right? What’s amazing is you describe quote, unquote, moderation, right? You are thinking about alcohol literally all the time, right? You’re tracking it. You’re debating whether you’re going to drink you’re thinking about how much to order, you’re cutting yourself off, or you’re not you’re thinking about it in the morning, you’re worried you’re, whatever it is, you stopped drinking, and you get a little distance from that. You won’t think about alcohol, he will not consume your daily thoughts when he wakes up and when it’s 4pm. And when you’re driving home from work, thinking about whether you should stop or not and white knuckling it when you want to drink or like, okay, it’s Saturday night. How much can I drink? Right? None of that occupies your brain space anymore.

 

34:52

Yeah, yeah. And what’s really cool is that like, I mean, I see the women I work with, I see so many people out there in this planet like You we are gifts to the world like we are strong, independent women, we have so much to offer. We have this full life to live, to be expressive, to be abundant to be emboldened to really live out our potential right on this, like one given chance that we have. And we’re giving away all that energy to alcohol. You know, it’s just like, it’s such a waste, like, I have nothing to show for all those drinks. I have nothing to show for all that mental gymnastics and rumination. You know what I mean? It like stepped out my beautiful energy and my beautiful like creativity, right? Like, imagine if I was creating spreadsheets for something really, like meaningful in my life, right? I mean, I joke on that, but like, it takes away so much. So when you when you remove all that chatter, I mean, it’s really an exercise in this mindfulness, like you come to this peaceful place, and to this really sense of presence, and you start to start, I think, really listening to your intuition more and really sparking more creativity in your life. And like what before became like, the only pastime you could think of that would be like alluring. It’s all of a sudden, you’re starting to get a lot of more creative ideas. Yeah, you know, Kisi right now I’m taking a break from TV. And I’m like, it’s so similar, I want to say to taking a break from alcohol, because I have so much time, right? Like, before, it’s like maybe you work all day, and then you know, you watch a few episodes. And the way Netflix works these days is the same thing. Like they, they do a cliffhanger and you’re like, oh my God, what’s gonna happen next, and you just want another right? It’s the same kind of hit of like, let me just have another. And so I’m taking this break from TV and I have done so much with my evenings. I’ve done so much with my weekends.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  36:46

And there is that initial impulse? What are some of those things? Yeah, so like,

 

36:50

just yesterday, like I went with my husband first, we like hung out with my parents for a little bit. Then we went and played pool at a pool hall. We took our dog with us, we got like this really great dinner afterwards. And normally after dinner, I’d be like, Okay, that was a nice night, they out. Like, let’s go back and maybe catch an episode. I was like, you know what, why don’t we go watch the sunset. So we went to a beach like 20 minutes away, we took like a 90-minute walk on the beach, it was so gorgeous. And I came home, and I still had time to take a bath and read for another two hours. Like it was so cool. And the thing with that is that like, it faces you to face, it forces you to face board, right? And that’s sometimes one of the more feelings that we fear that isn’t like outwardly as negative as like depression or anxiety. But like boredom is something we fear, you know, oh, God, I can still I can feel myself like at the end of the day, kind of being like that automatic like, Oh, can I just watch some TV now? Like, what a nice, like, let’s just do that. And I have to be like, No, sit with yourself sit with these feelings, like learn how to decompress in different ways. And like, really find something that lights you up even more, you know, and you will find that for yourself. And like I mean, look at you look at me, like we’ve we launched businesses, we launched podcasts, I wrote a book, like you’ve got a book inside you too. You know, like, there’s just so much that happens. Because you have that mental space back and really that then that drive to use your creativity. Yeah, it’s kind of like the difference between like passive entertainment and really being an active, like creator and agent in your life. Yeah, like one’s way more fulfilling than the other

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  38:29

one. The other thing I say is, you know, I have kids, a lot of the women who listen to this have kids and it’s sort of like my daughter, or even my son, one’s young, older than the other, who you know, she’s watching YouTube, she’s watching something on the iPad, etc., etc. I take it away. And she’s like, there’s nothing to do. I’m so bored. There’s literally like, absolutely nothing and as a mom I’m like, oh my God, you have a trampoline outside there is a tree house next door, you’ve got the biggest Barbie house known demand, you know what I be like, go play hopscotch. Go you know, do whatever. And you need to literally have a bunch, you know, I watch her very grumpy. And then you know, after like 20 minutes, 30 minutes, she somehow gets up and starts, starts doing things starts coloring start running around outside starts asking me to go on the trampoline. But it takes a while. And it’s a very, very similar thing with us when we are used to coming home drinking a glass of wine on the couch watching TV. Of course, when you take that away, you’re like, where’s my easy button stimulation? And, you know, if you take some time away from it, suddenly you’re like, oh, I want to read a book or I want to do this project or I wouldn’t you know, I like created this whole video. Double garden with, like, landscape design when I stopped drinking, and it’s gorgeous, you know? Yeah,

 

40:06

yeah. And that’s the thing is like, we were meant to be creative in our lives. And I like to use the word creator, like, not necessarily just the fine arts not just being like an artist or a writer or something like that. It’s creating things that didn’t exist before. You know, it’s doing new things. It’s, it’s really pushing your brain to have new experiences, new ways of thinking.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  40:27

Yeah. And let’s talk about the fear that others will judge you. Because I know that is a huge one. It was one for me, it was one for so many women I work with. And one of the fears even is like so for example, I was worried that if I stopped drinking, the people would think I had a problem, like even work colleagues, like, Oh, they’re not gonna want to promote me, if they know I stopped drinking, which is insane, right. But what do you think about that?

 

40:55

Yeah, and I think that’s a really excellent point. Because I think what we are really scared of is the stories people make up in their heads about us, right. And we live in this world where we talked about the insanity of it, like you could quit doing anything else unhealthy. But with alcohol, like that’s, that’s when it’s a problem. It’s because you actually leave it behind, you know, and what’s so asinine about it is that like leaving, ditching alcohol is one of the healthiest things you could do for your body, your mind and your soul. Like there are so many studies that come out every single day about not only how negative the effects of alcohol are, and even like drinking, like there’s just, there’s no safe amount of alcohol, the whole red wine thing is a myth. It doesn’t make your heart healthy over time, it sags your heart over time, and increases your blood pressure and your blood cholesterol. But you know, like, there’s also these studies that are coming out to show that what the effect of a break can do for your health. And it’s, it’s insane, you know, like, your blood cholesterol goes down, your blood pressure goes down. I’ve had clients that have gotten off of like, lifelong medications and healed chronic diseases, right? Your brain grey matter grows, your liver heals, like everything in your body on a cellular level gets better. And I think what is really cool is that this isn’t just like, a movement anymore, where it used to be like, Oh, only if you drink too much would you want to stop drinking, it’s really for everyone. It’s really for everyone to start questioning, they’re all back on their lives, because even the lightest drinker will have these kinds of effects. So it increases all of like the goodness in your body, everything’s healing on a cellular level. We already talked about those brain chemicals rebalancing. And I mean, honestly, it also like induces this wave of drive and ambition and creativity to go after goals that have always been on your heart. So to me, it’s like I, I had a huge paradigm shift kind of, not early on necessarily in my whole journey, because the whole journey was like all those years with a spreadsheet. But I remember when I was taking, I took a break from alcohol for dry January, then I started drinking again. Then I took another break, which kind of went on till today. And so during that second time, what was really important for me is I had this huge paradigm shift. Instead of seeing people who give up alcohol as some kind of weakness. I started seeing these role models who were literally to me, the coolest people on the planet, like they were so cool. They were waking up early, they’re going on hikes in the morning, they were climbing mountains, they were writing books, they were just like so, so active and just like really living their lives. And I had this huge epiphany shift. Oh, the coolest people don’t drink. And they do the coolest things because of that. Right? I can so now that I have this,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  43:35

I mean, I have so much of his like mindset, like you shift your mindset, and other people take their cues from you. If you don’t talk about it in a way that you are shameful if you’re like, oh my gosh, I’m doing a health kick in the same way that some people decide to run a marathon or become vegetarians or, you know, get a peloton and talk about it constantly. You know, it’s the same thing as, Oh, I’m not drinking, and I feel better and I sleep better, and I have more energy and it’s awesome. The fear that other people are going to judge you. A lot of that goes away because people really do take their cues from what you’re saying about why you stopped or how you feel or how you know what life is like without it.

 

44:26

Yeah. And just like I had to have that paradigm shift to think like the coolest people don’t drink I mean, honestly, Tony Robbins doesn’t drink Brené Brown doesn’t drink Deepak Chopra doesn’t drink. Gabby Bernstein doesn’t drink like the list goes on

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  44:39

and oil doesn’t drink like so many people don’t drink.

 

44:42

Yeah. But also like when you do that for someone in your personal life, you shift their paradigm because maybe for so long, they’re also trapped in the idea only problem drinkers quit therefore I’d have to be a problem drinker to quit therefore, people would label me as the problem and you shift that paradigm for them to like Oh, like there can be another reason to do this like, right. And I think that can be really liberating. And what I’ve noticed personally, is that people usually have three responses to, you know, you telling them that you’re not drinking, whether it’s in that moment or you know, kind of as a for good type of thing. So the three responses are actually really a lot easier to handle. Once you know, those, those three could come to you, and understand the deeper psychological meaning behind them. But I found the first one, my clients are often really surprised that this one, lots of people just don’t care. Right? Like lots of people, it’s totally irrelevant. Like we’re talking about a beverage here. It’s the same as if like, are you eating a banana? Or not today? Like, nobody cares.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  45:39

It’s like, it’s like, Oh, are you gonna order a burger? Or a salad?

 

45:44

Kind of? Yeah, it doesn’t matter, right. So a lot of people are pleasantly surprised that it’s not the forefront of a lot of people’s minds, and they don’t care. Now, the second response is sometimes a, like, people will ask you questions about it, and they’re, you know, kind of curious. And someone might initially be like, Ah, they’re trying to make me feel small. Like, this is embarrassing. You know, why are people asking me about this? But what often that actually means is someone’s curious for their own benefit, right? Like, they see themselves in you. And they’re like, oh, like, if someone who I relate to is doing this, like, I want to know more about it, you know, and they may be asking about the questions even about your past drinking, just because they’re trying to fit themselves in your like, in your story, so that they could also get the permission they need. They might ask questions about how you’re feeling or just, you know, whatever it is,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  46:33

or was it hard? You know how? That’s a good one?

 

46:36

Because if someone’s asking if it was hard, they want to do it too, right? Or I’ve

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  46:41

had people say, Yeah, I’ve had, you know, where I’ve been like, actually, I stopped drinking two months ago, I feel a lot better. And I’ve had people who invited me to a quote unquote, book wine club, like it was sold as a book club, but we drank a ton of wine. The woman who was inviting me was like, oh, yeah, I’ve I have to keep a really good eye on it. I’ve had anxiety, I’ve taken breaks at different time. Like it, she got it. You know, what a game like that was, I was like, Oh, I feel so much better about telling her this, even though she started the conversation with, like, come to this thing with other cool women where we drink a lot, you know?

 

47:20

Absolutely. And that thing that’s like, that’s really shifting our society is that you’ll find so many people really want to do this, or already have experience with it, too. You know, and it just wasn’t common knowledge before. And then you guys deepen the relationship, because it’s not just like, let’s bond over wine. Like how try, you know, it’s like, oh, this is a deeper part of our friendship that we could actually talk about, like, how cool you know. Yeah. And then I find this third rate like reaction people can have is that kind of veering on like, huh, like little rudeness, or maybe someone says, like, oh, I don’t have that problem. You know, like, I have so much control around alcohol,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  47:55

we’re like, we’re just asking you been harassing, cajoling you

 

47:59

yet. And that is very much this, like the second person’s profile, but they also are a lot more closed off to the part of themselves that wants to then take a break. So you’re mirroring up their own habits to them, and they get really threatened and defensive, right. So everything they say, has nothing to do with you. And it’s all about their own insecurities and doubts about drinking. And this too, can really be a gift because like, maybe they needed to see you to be able to do a deeper level of introspection into why that triggered them. And that might like lead them to one day reevaluate the role of alcohol in their lives. But it’s also I think, what’s really cool is, when you go alcohol free, like you sit through your emotions, you’re no longer numbing them. You learn how to sit through a stressful day and relieve yourself in healthy ways. You learn how to sit with boredom, with frustration with disappointment, you learn not to numb away your uncomfortable emotions. It’s almost like you become more of a master of your emotions, not like a perfect monk or something one day, but you know, like you really can handle like, sometimes I felt, I used to be like this much more stress when it came to my life. And like things just stop being as stressful. Like, I still obviously have stress, I have a lot going on. But they don’t. They don’t like Get me the same way they don’t like it’s not like this mountain. It’s in front of me every single day. And so you’re basically building your emotional resiliency. And with people who don’t respond well to you, when you say you’re taking a break or going alcohol free. It’s like time to put on your psychologist hat and recognize like this has nothing to do with me.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  49:32

It’s all about their own relationship with alcohol. And when they’re like, Oh, you’re not drinking, they’re worried that like, well, if you don’t drink what does that say about me or like, I won’t be able to order as many drinks or like, you know, I won’t be able to drink as freely like it’s all about that.

 

49:50

It is and now that you have that emotional resiliency and that maturity to really recognize that you don’t meet make it mean anything about you, right you kind of you understand why they did that and then you can let it go and just, you know, hope the best for that type of thing. You don’t have to like, let it be such a weight on your shoulders.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  50:09

When I times as you get further away from drinking, they’re like, oh my gosh, you know, one of the most common things is people are like, oh my god, your skin looks amazing. Like, oh my god, I can’t believe you did that, like you’ve gone to this morning workout every Saturday morning, like, you do become happier and healthier. And even. I mean, if someone is a heavy drinking drinker, and they give you trouble for stopping, they’re suddenly going to be like, Whoa, what are you doing? You know, like, Damn, that looks good. And it takes a while, right? Like in the beginning, you are shaky. You are like, I’m going to go out to a bar and feel like I’m going to be blown over by a feather. Because you haven’t built that that muscle yet. You don’t have the habit of going there and being like, Oh, do you have any nonalcoholic beer, I’ll have a, you know, Virgin Mojito or, you know, whatever it is, that’s your jam. But it gets so much easier. And what clients have told me is they feel so confident, right? You actually when you’re going out and you’re drinking and you’re worried about it, and you’re overthinking it, you do feel less confidence. You’re really in your head, you’re like, ooh, if I add too many am, I saying something stupid? You know, all that kind of stuff. When you take that off the table, you just feel more confident in your own skin.

 

51:31

Oh, yeah, that was such a big one for me to recognize and learn because I am like a lifelong introvert guy growing up. So when I started drinking to me alcohol, like was my liquid courage. And maybe that’s like a big myth too, that people believe without drinking, they won’t be able to feel confident socializing, right. And that one’s big. I mean, think about it. We learned to drink as teenagers we are in college or like in really early adulthood. Like, do we really practice socializing without it, you know, like, we really don’t as a society. And so it’s like a natural kind of a fear that like alcohol buttered me up or alcohol makes me more talkative or alcohol makes me more confident. But the exact thing that you just said is true. Over time, alcohol made me super insecure. I was always ruminating in my mind, like, do I have wine teeth? Did they notice I went for my third drink? Like all of this just chatter was going on. And I was honestly, I was telling my subconscious. Every single time I went to a party and reached for a drink. Oh, you’re not enough on your own. Yeah, people don’t want to talk to you. You’re not interesting. You’re not charming. You’re not likable. You need a drink to do all those things, right. And I was telling my subconscious, that over and over and over and over again until I believed it. It’s like I was getting my confidence.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  52:49

And what about the next morning? I mean, the amount of insecurity and second guessing I would feel the next morning was amazing. Did I say too much? Was I slurring? Did anyone notice? Did I overshare is my husband mad at me, like the amount of like insecurity and sort of missteps, socially, that I was confident, I did, like, one of the thoughts about being judged was about work. And like, we go out for happy hour drinks on business trips, before big meetings, we would all go out to dinner, and the wine would flow. And I was like, I’m not going to be able to network or be promoted, or, you know, have those late-night conversations with people where like, the “bonding” happens at work. But what I found was a I was so much more on my game at meetings, like I would like, wake up and go over the presentation and have breakfast. I also wouldn’t have a lot of the late night like oversharing, or when negative emotions come out, or when you gossip about people are cringe. Like I’ve kind of business trips where we’re like, walking home from the restaurant and I trip, like, how cool is that? When I’m like, Oh, they’re gonna judge me if I stopped drinking. Like, not everyone drank as much as I did. Some of that stuff was like, Absolutely not professional.

 

54:15

Absolutely, to and, and I think that’s like, a common fear too. Is that like, if there is a drinking culture at your work, you know, like, Will I miss out on that? Will I not be promoted? You know, but like, think about it, like if you had all those negative feelings the next day, like they do, too. And guess who they associate those negative feelings with you? Right? Yeah, like so like, I don’t know about you, but when I would drink too much or something. I wasn’t trying to do this purposely. But I wouldn’t want to hang out with that person. Like, avoid that person. Yes. Yeah. So why wouldn’t the same thing happen with work like oversharing you know, all that kind of stuff. It’s not built on real vulnerability and real connection. It’s such an artificial crutch, and so it feels artificial to everyone involved. And so it’s not a real way to like, go up the ladder or bond with people because like it hasn’t its keenness factor to that, and every party feels the ickiness, subconsciously at least.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  55:05

And one of the things about worrying about being judged is I feel like that culture is really, really changing as more people are open about their decision to stop drinking and Instagram, so many people are open it open, there are so many people with accounts are going alcohol free and sharing that openly and proudly. And you know, one of the things about sort of the traditional 12 Step A model is anonymity, right? Don’t tell anyone, don’t tell anyone that you stopped drinking, don’t tell anyone about why don’t tell anyone about, you know, the meetings or anything like that. And I think as more people are open as younger people are open as people are sharing, as more women are open about, oh, my gosh, I quit drinking, and this is really good. You know, I know when I share on social, like, people are like, Oh, that’s awesome way to go. They may not decide to stop drinking, but they’re seeing everybody else give me positive feedback on it, it changes that judgment, right? It’s something to be proud of.

 

56:10

Absolutely. And I’ll say like, you know, with my personal life, when I first went alcohol free, it influenced a lot of my friends in good ways. And you know, some of them took breaks themselves. Some of them were alcohol free, some, some of them it took like years to get to that point, but like, I still influenced them in that way. And then now that I have my own business, and I have a book coming out, I’ve also influenced people in that way, you know, like, so you live your best life, and you give other people that permission to do it, too. You know, like, no one ahead of you will ever judge you, right? It’s like the people who also feel stuck often are the easiest ones to feel judgment, or criticize you or you know, do the rumor stuff. Like, you have to just focus on living your best life. And don’t worry about what other people think. Because ultimately, you either get stuck in the fear of what people will think, or the regret of not doing what you know, you’ve always wanted to do on your heart. And that applies to so many different things in life. It’s not just you know, ditching alcohol. And so it’s almost as if, like alcohol, ditching alcohol gives you this bravery, because you face it once like you do the thing that’s not the normal social convention. In a respect, you have to tell people, or you go to order mocktails, or whatever it is, like all those things, build courage. And you do the thing that’s unconventional, and you defy, fitting in, in favor of your well-being and your growth. I mean, it’s powerful. It’s like standing up for yourself, right? You do it in this one way. And you start to get that courage and confidence to do it in other ways. Yeah, you know, like, when I first quit my, when I first quit my job, like my parents were, like, shocked, like, some of my friends were like, Oh, my gosh, that’s crazy. Right?

 

And, and I think that’s a big like, example, like most of us grew up with this idea that you work a nine to five you live in the corporate world. And someone leaving that behind to go pursue their dreams can also be met with that same as, what you know, but all of our dreams take that courage and really doing differently from what society is doing. And choosing what’s on our hearts. Going on coffee is like this big lesson in that and this training ground to be able to then do it for the next big thing, which I think just taking small steps and overcoming your fears. And I mean, I did the same thing, right? I don’t think I ever would have left my corporate job. If I hadn’t stopped drinking. Like I was just too stuck and fear and insecurity and trying to stay safe. And you know, once you stop drinking, you have clarity and energy and like perspective on like, is this making me happy? Is this what I want to do? You don’t feel stuck anymore. You’re like I’ve already done one of the hardest things I think I would ever do in my life. And it’s better. So like, what’s the next thing that I am not totally satisfied in my life with? Let me take that on. I mean, you’re going to feel fear and it gets easier. I was, you know, terrified when I started the podcast, like, terrified the first time I posted on social media that I quit drinking, you know, and every time I’ve done something that was honest and brave, it’s come back tenfold in a positive way.

59:22

I love to hear that and that’s it really it’s about you know, like we’re talking about a beverage at the end of the day like a beverage I love to use that word because it really puts like an inanimate quality on it like just a beverage it’s just a liquid like it’s like a banana like it doesn’t matter. Yeah, and yet it wraps us up and it keeps us so stuck and it’s just like even someone who’s already free from alcohol but now worrying about what society will think in the social socializing like you’ve got it’s just a beverage like

Casey McGuire Davidson  59:53

sanity, isn’t it that we have so much importance on this like it? It’s literally crazy that we’re like, oh my god, if I don’t have alcohol in this beverage, it is somehow less than or an issue or you know all the things.

1:00:11

Yeah. But what’s so beautiful about that is when you start to recognize like it’s it is just a beverage, I have so much more meaningful gifts and energy to really live out my legacy here on this planet, like my life matters so much more than a beverage. And my dreams matter, way more than a beverage does. And you get all of the benefits we’ve already been sharing on this podcast, you get that confidence that courage, you start paving a way of really achieving your biggest dreams, you start doing things that are a little different from what you used to do. And like new opportunities, like I’m always so amazed by my clients as well. You know, like I’ve had clients who have written books now who have launched businesses themselves who’ve become alcohol free life coaches, who have gone back to school who have moved across the country into Europe who’ve gotten really deep into their hobbies into their spiritual growth, just so much cool stuff happens. And that’s what lights me up. And that’s why I’m so passionate about sharing this message is you let go of what no longer serves you, and then you make space for what you really want in your life. And if you think about it, what you really want in your life, like how, which one are you going to value more a drink a beverage, or what you really want more in your life. And I think sometimes as like women, or even just anyone in our society, we don’t even allow ourselves to even name and declare what we really want. You know, like, we don’t even do the self-discovery to determine what we really want. And I think taking a break from alcohol and going alcohol free will give you that self-discovery to figure out what that is, if you don’t already know, you know, and then give you the confidence to start making baby steps towards that.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:01:48

When you spend so much time talking shit to yourself, right? You spend so much time and self-loathing or regret or, you know, get your you know, get some willpower get some self-discipline. When you switch that off, you’re like, actually, I’m pretty cool and competent and good. And I’m good at my job. And what else do I want to do? You know?

1:02:12

Yeah, I love that. I used to think I was so incapable of things just because my inner life revolves around letting myself down. You know, and once I changed that, like it really redeveloped a new healthy sense of self, yeah, my self-worth my self-esteem. And it was literally just like, if I can do this, what else can I do?

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:02:32

Well, and you get you stop having this habit, like you said, of letting yourself down and giving up like I always used to be like, I never follow through on things. And I remember one of my most you know, when you talk about that, like natural high. One of the highest moments I had after I quit drinking was about two months after I ran it 10k by myself in the morning, the morning of my son’s birthday, like, forget it. Normally, I would have been stressed and behind and all this kind of stuff. And I just went to this race and I ran it by myself. And I hadn’t done it 10k ever, literally ever. And so I remember finishing the race. And I was almost in tears because I was like, I am now a person who does what I say I’m gonna do. And like drinking was a big part of why I never followed through with everything.

1:03:27

Yeah, yeah, I had a similar experience. I crossed the finish line for my first half marathon and I just cried. I was like, I never thought I was the type of person who could do that, you know. Yeah. No, no, you do it.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:03:40

You do it. And you’re like, wow. And by the way, all the time you were drinking or hungover, you could be running, or you could be painting, or you could be doing writing anything Gardening. One other thing I definitely wanted to talk about, because it comes up quite a bit with women, especially working women who have kids, and we’re so busy and all the things is I won’t be able to relax, I won’t be able to switch off I will not have that. You know, when you drink you have that like Buzz, quiet feeling like it puts a bubble around you of just numbing the pressure, right? You’re literally switching off your brain. And so I want to hear what you think about that. Because I know we both experienced the opposite of that when you’ve stopped drinking.

1:04:34

Yeah, I mean, that’s a really great one. And I think that like no one should have to fear that someone’s coming to take away like the only way you relax at the end of the day one it’s not quite working the way you wish it was because it’s actually creating more anxiety in your body and you will feel that you know that and to why don’t we find something that actually works that really does work holistically and is even better that you look forward to even more and let’s have that be and experimentation self-discovery process. You know, alcohol has been tied to anxiety on a molecular level increases those stress hormones cortisol, adrenaline, right? Like, I don’t know, if you’ve ever had a drink, or you know, I’m kind of saying this to the audience, you’ve had a drink, or two or three, or whatever it is, and then you stop drinking, but you don’t go to bed right away. So maybe it’s like a lunchtime drinking thing or whatever the feel the weirdness of that feeling, the grogginess the Wired, feeling like this, just this grossness will follow you for hours, you know, afterwards. And we’re so good at like, not really noticing that, because we often go to bed, you know, after drinking. It’s funny, my husband, he still drinks, and he usually drinks really occasionally now, but we went out to play pool yesterday. And he had a few beers at the bar, right. And then we went did other stuff, we got food. And then we went on a walk at the beach and stuff. And he was like, Wow, I’m not ever I’m not doing that. Again, like, I don’t feel like I don’t feel good. And I don’t mean, like nauseous or sick. He didn’t, he felt so like gross, because of all those stress hormones circulating in your body. And you’re doing that to your body every single day. And it takes weeks for your body to clear all that out. Right? So like to me that like that numbness that you’re talking about. I mean, that’s the same thing as like, putting your head in the sand or sedating yourself into a coma. You know what I mean?

Like, yeah, obviously, you don’t have problems when you’re in a coma, because you can’t feel them. But that doesn’t mean they’re not there. And you wake up, and they’re compounded. Because not only did you not relieve any anxiety or stress, you didn’t relax your body, you didn’t do anything that actually helps you, you know, move forward with that. Now you wake up with a headache. And it’s just like feeling of low self-esteem, and no stamina to face, whatever you’re stressed to begin with, you know, so it just makes life in general, that much more stressful. So first, you move the alcohol out of your life. And there’s levels of stress that are like up here, obviously, don’t go away, but they go down a little bit, right, because you’re not creating all the stress and to begin with. And then you find other ways to you know, relax. And I think as humans, we’re like we’re very ritualistic. Like, we need to demarcate, like, okay, it’s the end of the workday.

Now, you know, I get to, I have to tell my brain, it has permission to relax. And it’s so interesting when you mentioned that, like, the bubble like overwhelms you, like, when you have a drink of alcohol, they once did a study where they put brain nodes on participants who were sitting at a restaurant or a bar. And so they’re, they’re capturing their brainwaves, right? And they had them order a drink, and everyone’s brainwaves went up, like in a pleasurable way once they ordered the drink, but before they actually drank the drink, right? So what we’ve done over time is we’ve told ourselves, alcohol gives me permission to relax. It’s an anticipation, but it doesn’t actually physically do that. It’s that it’s my thoughts about it that do it. And so imagine if we gave ourselves permission to relax in other ways, like we actually told ourselves, the workday is done. Here’s a decompression ritual I can do. You could even be pouring a drink, it could just be a nonalcoholic drink, right, you get this exact Cosmo effect. It could be anything, it could be in yoga routine, a little meditation, you know, I work with women who are really have great careers, right. And a lot of them are in that like powerful VP C-Suite level. And they’d like turn to things like running or meditation at the end of the workday. And it actually works. Yeah. And then they can turn off completely. And even if something still buzzing in their brain, they can write it to do list, right?

Like, when I was drinking, I wasn’t reading to do list, I was just like, my head were, you know, my head was in the sand, when the other thing too is that we drive ourselves so hard all day. And then we come home, and I used to drive a shift, stick shift car and you want to downshift really fast, like you’re just like, oh my god, we want to multitask with everything. And drinking is really like hitting the easy button. It’s kind of a lazy way to do all the things you’re supposed to do for your body and actually doesn’t work. So in terms of like the fear that I will never be able to relax. If I stopped drinking. Of course, you can relax if you’ve stopped drinking. And of course, you’re actually going to feel better because like you said, you’re not putting your body into this hyper anxiety state. But also, you know, decompress throughout the day, like get up from your desk and take a walk, turn down some of the crazy deadlines or try to push them off. And then when you come home, you can take a few minutes to go for a walk or you can do yoga after work. Even if you have kids or you can do it after dinner like the idea that like I have no time to relax like you don’t realize how much you’re slowing yourself down all day. with a hangover with how strung out you feel, and then like, once you stop drinking, once you start drinking in the evening, you are losing hours of time, just kind of zoned out. So, I promise you, when you stop drinking, you will have more time to actually physically take care of your body and relax in ways that you’re not right now.

1:10:26

I think there’s something too there that like, you know, we, we don’t like feeling stressed, we don’t like feeling frustrated and pent up and like, we then numb those emotions. And then what happens is, then we never take care of those emotions, and our emotions are coming up for a reason that you’re not supposed to feel stressed and frustrated all the time. And like, there are shifts you can make in your life to be able to, you know, handle your emotions and actually listen to the signal that they’re trying to give you, you know, for. So for example, many women often have trouble with boundaries, right? So it’s like, not only do they do everything at work, then they have to do everything at home, right. And it’s like, maybe that emotion is coming up for you to actually have a conversation with your boss, or have a conversation with your husband that you needed more help at home or something like that, right? Maybe could be like, the sounds scary, but maybe your career is not fulfilling in the way that it is at this exact moment. So maybe it’s like you want to look for a promotion or a different job, or even start something new on yours by yourself. You’ll never know until you lean into that emotion instead of just numbing it all the time. It could be so many different things. Like I said boundaries, it could be like, really just like, like auditing almost what you do every day, or on a weekly basis. And asking yourself like, does this spark joy, like why maybe I have all these commitments, because I’m people pleasing, or I’m trying to be a savior to other people, but they’re not actually fulfilling me. So you can kind of say all that stuff as it comes up instead of just numbing it. And so you’re finally getting to the source of what’s driving you to feel so stressed and frustrated all the time. Instead of just ignore. You’re processing it, healing it, relieving it and doing something proactive about it, right. And I don’t ever mean to suggest like, oh, you should just quit your job and move to Nepal and you know, become a monk or something. Like I understand, we all have these realities we live in, but we are far more powerful, and in control of our lives. And we believe and there are so many coaches resources, like programs out there that could help with whatever it is whether it’s an unfulfilling career, whether it’s like needing more boundaries, or help at home, you know, whatever it is, there’s a solution out there, and someone who’s done that, and like done that hard thing, but found massive fulfillment on the other side. So I think it’s a cool opportunity, like your life will change in the best way when you lean into those emotions.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:12:48

Yeah, I totally agree. And I know we’re sort of getting to the end. But there were a few other things I wanted to touch on like, one is a fear or a myth that you will never be able to go to places where alcohol is served again, right like that. It will be incredibly hard. And in the beginning, yes, I found that you know, it going to a bar with a bunch of people drinking would be really hard in your first two weeks or your first month or whatever, like you do need to build a habit of like entertaining yourself and having fun and doing things without alcohol. But once you get further along, I have no problem going to restaurants or bars or dinner party where other people are drinking once you build up that muscles so I don’t know if you’ve found that too but I think the idea that your social life will be so curtailed because you’re not drinking any want to I have not found that to be true.

1:13:50

Oh Not at all. Absolutely. I think you’re spot on and the thing is like a lot of that social life to me was governed by like Buzz talk small talk like just this weird artificial bonding to me my social life has actually exploded because now I’m really truly connecting with women and I’m seeking out more growth oriented women so like we are bonding to over our dreams not like the rumor mill of like what happened in the office that day, right? Like it’s so much more fulfilling, I actually feel like that meet is being met so much more in my life. And I have absolutely like you couldn’t pay me to drink alcohol. So going out to like those bars or restaurants or whatever. I feel lucky to be a nondrinker. And in fact, when people do drink around me, I kind of feel like I don’t feel bad for them. I don’t mean it in like a judgmental way but I’m kind of like oh, they’re not gonna feel that great tomorrow or like, like I think I’m the one who has like the cooler you know, life and have it has like, the more like evolved kind of mentality around it. You know what I mean? I just I feel amazing, and that I don’t need to drink to feel a certain way like I can access that state on my own. You know, it’s funny, I’ll share this because it’s not my podcast. It’s your podcast. But my dad, he is one of the most charming charismatic men I know, he likes to dance he likes to host he’s really good at like, including people in conversations making you feel really at home. He’s a really sociable guy, he’s very extroverted, right? And he was going through a cancer treatment, and he couldn’t drink for a while. And my mom wanted to go to a party. And he was like, No, I won’t be able to drink. And I was like, Oh, my God, my dad is so sociable, so charismatic, and even he is stuck in this belief that like he has to drink in order to like, be all that way. That’s bullshit. Like, my dad could have access that state and that like those attributes of himself on his own, and then it would have been more authentic and more powerful. So it’s just such a huge lie that we tell ourselves, you know, that we can only feel this way or be this way, when we’re drinking, like, we are so much more powerful than that, you know? And it can you can even reach that state too, of like, not desiring a drink, feeling lucky that you don’t have to drink, you know, like, yeah, all of those things are so possible.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:16:04

Yeah. And not only that, like you actually have to do it a few times to like, get over that fear. And you know, anything new is uncomfortable. But once you do it, you’re like, Oh, yes, that was a myth. That is not actually true. And I think that that is part of, I’m hoping what this episode is about is, you know, sort of taking some of those fears that we all have about what will happen if we stopped drinking, if we go alcohol free, share that they are not actually true. And then inspire women to try it. Right? Try going through stuff without drinking, try taking a longer period of sobriety, like I recommend 100 days, where you go on a business trip, and you go out to dinner, and you talk to people and you change some of those habits, and you try new creative things to do at the end of the evening, and ways to relax and see if you don’t feel better, and also see if all those fears were not in fact, true.

1:17:09

Yeah. And you’ll never regret it, you know, like, I think we have such a finality to it like, Oh, am I gonna have to quit drinking forever, but 100 days are gonna pass by no matter what, right? So would you rather just try something new and experiment with this or like, keep on living the same old cycle over and over and over and over, if you have nothing to lose, and you will never regret it?

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:17:32

Completely. The last one I wanted to touch on is just the myth that there is only one way to stop drinking and to stay sober to not go back to alcohol. And the you know, there are many, many, many different ways I think that, that we’re an example of not going the traditional route of, you know, how we stopped drinking and how we think about it. But you know, most people, there is a path. You know, for some people, it’s yoga. For some people, it’s meditation. For some people, it’s running. For some people, it’s community. For some people, it’s habit, change in behavior change in mindset. So pulling from different sources that inspire you are, you know, there are lots and lots of people who quit drinking and stay sober, who did not go through a 12 step program, who are following different ways, or maybe did go through a 12 step program, right? That’s one of the many ways that people quit drinking, but it’s definitely not one size fits all. So if you have this fear, that if you stop drinking, your life will look like x. That’s just not true.

1:18:43

Yeah, I think that fear really held me back. And at first, even when I was talking about the alcohol-free life a few years ago, I would still get like hecklers from people being like, oh, but you didn’t do it this way. And you know, you didn’t mean, you know, it’s, it’s like a traditional way. And then there’s a newer way, right, that’s open to more kind of options, and that everyone has all the options available to them. And there is no just one way. I had this one woman share with me kind of like a horror story. She had been alcohol free for about a year. And she went to like, a meeting. And everyone there told her she hasn’t been alcohol free for a year because she’s never gone to a meeting before. So she’s technically at like de zero. I was like, all right. I mean, obviously, there’s so many great communities, great meetings out there great, like a culture out there. But this one was definitely not helpful to her. And I was like, how, like, what, like a loss and like someone trying to strip away your autonomy, to be able to beat like, you have the best wisdom on how to move forward and grow in your life. You know, I think for me, like, obviously, changing your mindset, you know, you can work with a coach, you could go through a formal program, those things will really help make it as sustainable as possible. But I think going back to personal growth, like making sure you’re really reflective about it, that you’re introspective, that you’re getting to know yourself in a better way. And however you do that, you know, you get to choose, but I think that reflective part of it will really help you along the way. And I think today, like, I don’t even know if it’s as much of a concern. Like, I think culture has changed so much just in the last few years that like, I think it’s more evident that there’s a lot more ways to choose. But uh, I know that held me back for a while. Yeah,

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:20:21

yeah. Well, I love this conversation. And I, you know, after talking to you a couple times, I know your book is going to be amazing. Do you want to tell us a little bit about it, where to find it, how to get in touch with you?

1:20:34

Absolutely. So my book is called Euphoric: Ditch Alcohol and Gain A Happier, More Confident You. And it’s really this paradigm shift in our society to really present the alcohol-free lifestyle as one of the like, coolest, healthiest choices you can make for yourself. And so the first two parts of the book really share with you why you should take a break from alcohol. So you’ll go into like every benefit every incredible health benefit, how it will affect your sleep, your energy, your mood, and then all the mental things like the positive beliefs that you redevelop about yourself instead of all those like negative ones, and how that changes your sense of gratitude and connection and presence and all these things. And then the last part of the book actually gives you a roadmap. So it’s an eight week plan to take an eight week break from alcohol, and have every single week you’re working on your mindset, you’re dealing with those kind of like objections like, Well, how do I deal with this situation or, you know, socializing, but also then really rediscovering yourself. And what I love about it, like I said, it’s not just about a beverage, the plan will help position you to discover what do I want? Even more? What do I want most in my life? What are my inherent desires and dreams? Have I been snoozing on them? Have I never even let myself admit them, and really get clear to discover what those are, and then start giving you a roadmap on how to achieve those goals for yourself.

You know, like, one of the women I worked with, she knew she wanted to write a book since she was a little kid. Like her father was a big reader. So she they had big libraries growing up. And she always wanted to write a book. But it was such a like, well, you know, that’s not a realistic fantasy. And then she got married, and she had kids and she just got the corporate job. And she felt like her life was about fulfilling this role. You know, like, I pay the bills, I am the great mom, I’m the great wife. And that’s it. That’s my life, right? That’s what I’m check all the boxes, like having a dream on the side would be selfish, you know, like looking at writing this book. Now. It doesn’t fit with this life, you know, of this box I have to fill. And so for her, you know, going on coffee and going through this, this framework really gave her like this permission and this hunger to say like, yes, like, this is just as important as anything else in my family. I’m going to go for it. And she’s like, halfway done writing her first book, she goes to writers’ retreats. Now. It’s just so cool. Like, take the weekend away from parenting, and all those two dues and like, you know, really pursue this dream. And I think again, that’s the biggest message that I could share with anyone is that going on coffee is like the fastest road to your biggest dreams. It’s not about a beverage. It’s about discovering what you want most in life and then having the audacity to go after it. So if anyone’s interested in the book, I would love, love, love, love for you to get a copy. You can get at euphoric books calm, and we have some really cool bonuses that you can also get. So like we were talking about boredom. Earlier, I have this really cool checklist of 50 things to do. Instead of drinking, we have training videos on changing your mindset. We also have like mocktail recipe guides like an e book on that and how to socialize like confidently. So when you sign up at euphoric books calm with your order number, you’ll get all those bonuses.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:23:42

So, that sounds wonderful. And thank you so much for coming on. This has been a really great conversation.

1:23:48

No, thank you so much. It’s been such an honor, I really enjoy diving deep into these myths.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:23:55

Hey there before I jump off this episode, I want to remind you that you can sign up for my brand new 60-minute masterclass, The 5 Secrets To Successfully Take A Break From Drinking, even if you’ve tried and failed in the past, by going to hellosomedaycoaching.com/class. Now, this training will not be around forever. So if you’re interested in figuring out what you’ve been doing up until now, and why it hasn’t been working, and exactly what to do. Instead, I encourage you to take a few moments, sign up, pick a time that works for you, and actually attend the session. I’ll teach you how to shift your thinking. So you can get out of the really shitty cycle of starting and stopping and starting again, and it’s okay if you’re thinking that you don’t actually want to stop drinking. I promise you, if you attend this class, you will change the way you’re approaching this process. So save your spot. Go to hellosomedaycoaching.com/class, and I can’t wait to see you there.

So thank you for coming on here. I couldn’t appreciate it more. 

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Hello Someday Podcast. If you’re interested in learning more about me or the work I do or accessing free resources and guides to help you build a life you love without alcohol, please visit hellosomedaycoaching.com. And I would be so grateful if you would take a few minutes to rate and review this podcast so that more women can find it and join the conversation about drinking less and living more.