SUMMARY KEYWORDS

life, drinking, people, feel, sobriety, talking, women, podcast, year, listening, quit, tiffany, alcohol, kids, anxiety, thought, values, taught, showing, good

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Tiffany Han

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a bus, how to sit with your emotions, when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Hi there. My guest today is Tiffany Han, she teaches ambitious and capable women how to raise their hands and say yes to the lives they want for themselves. And all the things they want to do be and say instead of overperforming for the sake of a life that someone else dictates for them.

 

Tiffany is a coach, a writer and a podcast host and is on a mission to teach super achievers how to put their striving on the shelf and radically infuse their lives with the light, serendipity and deep trust in themselves. For lives that feel as good on the inside. As they look on the outside.

 

She’s the host of the Tiffany honcho podcast, formerly raised raise your hand and say yes, which is great. And it’s in its seventh year with over 1.8 million downloads. And I love her podcast. I’ve been listening to it for a long time. She is interviewed Holly Whitaker, which a lot of you know from her book quit like a woman and Glennon Doyle, which I am shocked and amazed that you talked to her that’s so cool. Who wrote carry on warrior, untamed and love warrior? So you should take a listen. And Tiffany quit drinkie back in 2017. So congratulations on that. Thank you.

 

02:44

Yeah, it’s it’ll be five years in January. That feels pretty wild. Yeah,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  02:50

I quit in February 2016. So I just hit five years back in February. And it is cool. It’s sort of feels big. It’s a big milestone, but also is just kind of the new normal. So it’s sort of past the day without all the fanfare. Yeah,

 

03:06

yeah, I always try to remember, my I think it’s January 4, it’s not the first so I always try to revive, always try to like, make them make a note to mark the day if I can and just kind of be taken take a minute to celebrate it.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  03:20

Yeah. And I have to say I will link to it in the show notes. But one of your podcasts that I absolutely loved was the one he recorded at your one year sobriety or after you quit drinking, I thought it was just a really great reflection of why you decided to stop drinking, you know, and what your life is like now and doing it in a really positive way of in terms of like I removed alcohol, my life is a lot better.

 

03:51

Yeah, I mean, it’s, it was interesting before I quit drinking, I couldn’t imagine my life without alcohol in it as often is the case. So I and when I quit drinking I it was kind of by accident that I quit drinking, like I didn’t intend to quit drinking, I didn’t intend to put drinking permanently. And so for me, it was this very, kind of this beautiful unfolding to be in the experiment. When I first for everyone listening, I initially decided to experiment with quitting drinking for a year to see what was possible for my life. And it was only a few weeks into that, that I realized that I needed to quit completely. But yeah, I always thought that quitting drinking would feel more like a punishment than kind of the beginning of something really beautiful.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  04:45

Yeah. And so I mean, I love that as well because you don’t realize how small drinking keeps your life while you’re doing it. And for me, just the stress and the anxiety and sort of how slow I was moving to some extent Throughout my life, because of like, sort of being dragged down by hangovers, or not feeling amazing, or kind of sitting on my couch with wine was incredible to me how much more I could enjoy life without it.

 

05:13

Yeah, and I actually feel like I was probably moving too fast with the drinking, and that the drinking was part of what helped me cope and kind of deal and be in the light, go, go, go, go, go, go, instead of knowing how to slow down and really recognize what it was that I that I really, really wanted to be doing, and to have that life that you don’t need, you know, and again, life is not perfect, by any means at all right? It’s not this way of like, I know, everything’s amazing all the time. But to and I think Holly talks about this. And in her book that like, the goal of something like sobriety is to build a life that you don’t need to mom that you don’t need to numb out from, or you don’t need to check out from. And I think, for me, that was something that I’ve definitely felt is that I now can cope with things. And I designed my life in a way that I don’t need alcohol in order to like get through the day.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  06:09

Yeah, yeah. And we should talk about that, because there definitely are some adjustments. So wanted to talk to you, I reached out to you, because a lot of the women who listen to this podcast are sort of like this combination of overachievers and people pleasers, that like awesome sort of gold star girl want to get it all done want to multitask, and then are coming home. And they want to multitask, relaxing to write so I can like drink my wine while helping the kids with homework or doing the dishes or, you know, jumping on my email after the kids go to bed to keep working. And you talk about, you know, how we can stop over performing for the sake of the life that someone else dictates. And I think a lot of us are going through our lives over performing, and then want to check out with alcohol.

 

07:02

And we don’t even know that we’re over performing, right? Because for so many of us, we are taught from a very young age that, especially women, we are taught at a very young age that the way to be successful is to do everything and do a very well and do it without causing any fuss and do it while you make sure that everybody else in your life is comfortable. And, you know, be the right kind of noticeable, right, so all of we’re taught to play all of these roles. And I think for me, again, if you would ask me before I quit drinking, if I was performing, I would have been like, I don’t know, you’re talking about everything’s amazing, everything’s great. And it wasn’t until I was able to quit drinking and look, look at all of the things that I thought I needed to be doing. And, and also the way that I thought I needed to move through my life, that it became very clear to me that I was not making deliberate decisions that I was trying to be all of these different things and play all of these different roles. And you know, the people pleasing. I have a good friend named Nat Lu. She’s a podcaster out of Britain. And she came up she does a lot of work around boundaries and saying no and really deliberately showing up in your life. And I had her on my podcast, a couple years ago, we were talking about people pleasing. And she pointed out to me that people pleasing is actually manipulative behavior. And it completely blew my mind. Because I think for so many of us, who are Trump that we are like, just trying so hard that we could say like, Oh, I’m a people pleaser, but it it’s almost this thing of like, I just want to make sure everyone around me is happy. Right? And we can view it as like a good thing. But when you when you’re really able to like break it down to its component parts and be like, in fact, you’re actually trying to like, change somebody else’s, you know, opinion or outcome, and just really see it as a manipulation is like, Ooh, there’s a lot of dark stuff going on there. So. And I also think, right, like, this are all being said, with massive grace. Because, again, it’s not that like you’re doing it wrong, right? I think for so long. For so long. Actually, the part of the way that we design our lives is not wanting things to be quote wrong. But when you have to look at like, who benefits from us performing and being burned out and drinking those three glasses of wine every night and kind of checking out like, if there’s a whole systemic thing happening. It’s not just that we aren’t being deliberate enough about the way that we design our lives.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  09:47

Yeah. Oh my gosh, there is so much to dig into there that I want to ask you about, especially when you said at the end, who benefits from it, but first I wanted to ask you like you talked about some tangible ways You needed to sort of change the way you were showing up in the world or the things you were doing. Can you tell us about what some of those were?

 

10:08

Yeah, I mean, fundamental, like the big thing for me that that changed a lot when I first and what made me realize that I think drinking needed to kind of be out of my life altogether was that I was generally happier, like, my mood was a lot more positive, right? And, and when I looked at it, like, Oh, I’m not routinely consuming a depressant like that makes sense that I would wake up happier, I was sleeping a lot better. I wasn’t eating like she does at midnight, because I needed that snack before I went to bed. But it also was, the other things started happening, right. And for me, sobriety was like a completely spiritual journey as I think for a lot of people, but I started to really listen to myself, really get in touch with my anxiety and really get in touch with my anger. Recognize that there were that I had just spent so long, ignoring my feelings, and maybe not even recognizing that I was having feelings because I was so good at living in the story that alcohol was the bomb for whatever it was, I was feeling right, like alcohol was how I soothed so it became this whole thing of like, Oh, I do have anxiety. Oh, that’s so interesting. Oh, my anxiety, nobody’s gonna think that it’s a problem, because my anxiety actually serves a lot of other people in my life. Really? Well, um, Oh, that makes me angry. Oh, and then you know, you think about blame. And you think about, like, there’s just so much. And I think that, that what I really learned was how to be in the room with whatever was showing up for me that really, I could, I could face and be with anything. And for so long, in my life, I believed that alcohol was the magical ingredient that helped me celebrate or be angry or be sad, or be uncomfortable or connect with people or relax, like, I didn’t know that I could do it without the alcohol. And so that was a really big revelation for me.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  12:07

Yeah, yeah. And so I’m like, when you said that, like, you’re, you know, you realize that you have anxiety, you kind of have to find a different way to cope with it, I had the exact same experience, I was always anxious. And when I stopped drinking, the anxiety came down quite a bit. But I was still left with this baseline anxiety that I probably lived with my whole life and was sort of self-medicating for. But you said two things earlier, one was who benefits from us overperforming overworking, and then you mentioned that the anxiety that you had it served others in some ways, which I can imagine you were always thinking through everything, and on top of everything and checking every box, even though you were sort of having this toll taken on you. So how did you recognize like, who benefits and the anxiety and sort of shift that?

 

13:01

Yeah, I mean, I think just like sitting with a question, right? And looking at it, and, and really getting honest about it, because it’s easy to think like, Oh, my family benefits when I’m super anxious. And it’s like, do they? Do they really, um, you know, I can definitely look back on jobs I had, where, you know, I did a great job at work, and then wanted to go lay down in my car in the middle of the day, because I thought I was having a heart attack. And I would have to every three months, like, take two or three sick days, because I had such bad insomnia, because of my anxiety and my drinking, that I, I would just not be able to function, not from being hungover but from like my sleep deprivation, right. And I was, I was in my mid 20s. Like, I it was not the toll that it was taking on the inside of me. I wasn’t showing it, but it was definitely happening. And I think that what we have to do is really redefine who the authority is in our lives, right? Is that being the function of my life to do well in school and get promoted and get promoted again and get promoted again and have the money and like, again, check all those boxes, or is there something else? And I think that I just want to be clear, right? It’s not that I’m saying that, like if you have a job and work for someone else, that that’s bad, or if you do well in college, but that’s bad, but it’s, it’s about what is the motivation? Is it you know, I do a lot of work with people around personal values, is it attached to your values? And is it intrinsically something you want? Or is it something that you’ve been taught to what and it takes time to really sit with those questions?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  14:46

If you’re listening to this episode and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit. The Sobriety Starter Kit is an online self study, sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step-by-step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one-on-one coaching. And The Sobriety Starter Kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it, when it fits into your schedule.  You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time. This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step-by-step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life. You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better, you’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course.

 

I love that because I discovered that too when I when I stopped drinking and also when I became a coach. And one of the works that I did around core values was realizing that, you know, when I was working, you know when they asked you in that interview question like what do I need to know about you? What are three things? And I was like, I am competent. I am responsible? You know, those were how I define myself, right? Like I’m a good team member. And it wasn’t until I did the core values work that I was like, is being competent, really one of my core values like it actually wasn’t it was what like my parents wanted, like what they valued. And I sort of internally sort of made that mine and yet, it wasn’t with maybe happy or fulfilled.

 

17:38

Right, right? Yeah, I always I love doing values work with people because they always they always want family to be their number one value always. And I’m always like, No, you can’t have family. And people will be like, but and I’m like what is right. So for me, my number one value is integrity, which informs a lot of how I show up to my family, and how I show up to my relationships and my commitments. And for me, part of part of my journey has been learning that often there’s tension when I’m trying to decide between being an integrity to myself or being an integrity to other people. And for a really long time in my life, the other people piece one out over integrity to myself. And slowly over time. I mean, I’ve been doing I’ve been sober for what, four and a half years, but I’ve been doing values work for longer than that. And so slowly over time, it’s a practice of really learning and questioning and, and learning to that, like, you can choose yourself first. And nobody comes and takes it all away. Right? Like everything actually gets better. Even though when you first start to practice that feels really scary.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  18:57

Yeah, yeah, I love that too. I know. And I hear women all the time. say, Okay, well, my core value is service or like serving others. And that just isn’t mine. And I’ve had clients be like, wait, but you’re a coach, like you help women quit drinking. I’m like, yeah, you know, I really like value happiness and adventure and connection. I feel like the connection is what is what I really gain after the coaching work and helping them as well. But the connection is what is what serves me what lights me up, right? Yeah. So you talk about one of the things I loved was, you know, you coach, and you teach highly ambitious, highly capable, and highly overextended and over committed women. And you talk about how the old paradigm of how to approach our lives isn’t cutting it anymore. And so what is that old paradigm?

 

19:59

I mean, it’s, it’s a lot of I think, what came out from like the women’s liberation movement, right during the 70s. And 80s. Like, you can have it all, and you can, you know, have the family and do the thing and have and, and, you know, maybe, but like, what happened was, we were told to have it all and do it all, but no support systems were put in place to support that, right to help that. And, and, you know, it’s, it’s like, we don’t want to let people down, we want to end. And it’s so I there was a study that I read a few years ago that they had looked at how, how much time mothers spent, like, actively engaging with their children. And they were comparing, like, maybe 2015 working moms to stay at home moms during the 60s. And what they found is that the 2015 working moms spent like considerably more time with their kids than the than the working moms from the 60s. And that was just so telling me, like, Oh, my God, we this is not sustainable. And yet, we think that we’re doing the right thing, right. And for a lot of us, it’s like, well, then what do I do? Right? How do you prioritize when everything is a priority, and part of the problem is that we’ve been told everything is a priority. It also when you’re in that place that can feel very all or nothing, right? Like you’ve got to be the best employee, parent, PTO, wife, podcaster, have a side hustle, friend, family member, like cook as you can be in and again, that’s impossible. Right? So often people will ask me, like, how do you find balance? And I’m like, I think we’re asking the wrong question. Because whenever somebody starts out the conversation with how do you find balance? The underlying presumption there is because I’m doing it wrong. So if we can just allow a lot more grace into the conversation and say, like, I don’t know that balance is possible. I feel very unbalanced most of the time, but I also feel at least like I can be a deliberate choice about it.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  22:19

Mm hmm. Yeah, I was I was smiling when you were when you were talking about that, because I don’t know if you know, Christy Coulter. She’s a writer who wrote Nothing good can come from this and, and a friend of mine from Seattle, and in her she wrote this viral essay called Alessia Lee about this old perfume commercial, I think from the 70s. But it was like the idea of this woman could, you know, basically, bring home the bacon, cook it up in a frying pan and never let him forget, he’s a man or something like that. And she was like, when the only rational thing to do is like, pick two and outsource the third kind of thing. Like, yeah, and, you know, I just thought that was funny. Because, you know, we, every time we’re going to work, we often feel like, we should be doing more with our kids. And when then we’re like, oh, shoot, I need to connect with my husband more, and I should be, you know, thinner, and, you know, workout more and run a marathon and all this shit. And, you know, it’s to some extent, no wonder that we want to check out.

 

23:21

Right? I mean, alcohol is really the answer and right, like, who, again, who benefits? Right, like massive corporations’ benefit. And so it is, I think, are really, it can be extremely jarring and inconvenient to a lot of, especially for those of us who, you know, I quit drinking when I was 3036. I think so, you know, I have 36 years of I mean, I wasn’t drinking for 36 years, but I had, you know, all of these years of relationship structures and patterns, and habits and friendships are built around these things. And I think that it can be really jarring for even other people in your life. Right? when all of a sudden, they’re like, wait a minute, are we renegotiating like what’s happening. And, and it’s also easy to think, you know, being someone who maybe can feel a need are starting to tiptoe into that need of like, this is gonna be really hard. And because we’ve been numbing for so long, everything feels like wildly uncomfortable. So that doesn’t mean you’re doing it wrong.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  24:26

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, I just did a podcast with my husband, which was a really interesting conversation that we haven’t had before about, like, my drinking and life after drinking and quitting drinking from his perspective, like, what he observed, what he felt, you know, how much he was aware of, not aware of, etc., he sort of drinks casually, you know, not like I did, and we’ve been together for like 23 years. So a very long time and so It was, it was really interesting as part of that, but part of it was also like, when I was drinking, I asked less of him, right, because I didn’t, you know, feel like I was above reproach. So, you know, I didn’t like to look over him at him and be like, What the hell are you doing, you know, kind of thing. It was sort of like, to some extent, like don’t ask, don’t tell you, you know, you can do less because I’m here on the couch and feeling like crap in the morning. And, and also, when I stopped drinking, I started going to therapy, and I sort of required more of him more childcare more, picking up the kids more doing the things that I used to do. And so it was this renegotiation of, you know, suddenly, I was aware every night and I was up everybody that was like, dude, you’re sleeping till Ted. But it and that wasn’t completely fair. Cuz, you know, suddenly you get your shit together. And now you’re looking over the other person to change you the rules.

 

25:58

Yeah, and changing the stakes of like, you’re not the same person that he entered into the relationship with, right. And I think that all kinds of things change people, right? I mean, having kids changes you and you know, different life circumstances change. So it’s not just that this happens with drinking, but I do think that there is a, there’s an invitation there and an opportunity to, to look at what else is possible, with relationships specifically?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  26:28

Yeah. Well, so tell me about how you help women through this process? Like, do you have, you know, exercises that work really well? Or how do you help them start even evaluating what’s working and what’s not and what’s driving their decisions?

 

26:43

Yeah, so I primarily work with people through a yearlong program. And I have recently gone through like a bit of an evolution in my business. And so this program that I’m going to start teaching in October, it’s a new program called grown up gap year, and it really is a chance to, again, put your striving on the shelf, and step into a new like, really build a new foundation for your life, the place of where we always start is with values. Because I just think values are so integral to anything that you want to do. And I also think that they become these really beautiful campuses for decisions you make. And also for when you’re feeling dissatisfied, right, anytime somebody is like not sure about something, or they’re not really feeling something, I always say start with your values, because that’s going to tell you what is out of sync, or maybe two of your values are in conflict with each other, right? Maybe you have a value of freedom, and you also have a value of security. And you don’t know, do you stay in the job? Or do you take a month-long sabbatical, right or whatever. But it’s really designed to help people not necessarily like completely check out of their lives. That’s not what I’m saying. I’m not saying people can’t have responsibilities, but it’s about turning your energy back onto yourself. Instead of giving, giving, giving, doing, and hoping that eventually you earn the right to be able to relax.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  28:10

Yeah, I love that about earning the right to be able to relax, because that’s super common. So I know what a gap year is, but some people listening to this might not. So can you tell us about that concept and how you sort of evolved it to the grown-up gap or gap year.

 

28:27

So traditionally, a gap year would be, you know, a year taken either between high school and college or after college before looking for a grown-up job, where somebody may travel or work odd jobs, or just take time to like really to discover themselves. And the grownup version of that is, you know, we sometimes think like, Oh, well, I would love to have a life that feels delightful. But like, I don’t know, I’m just in my house in Colorado with my kids, and I can’t like up and move degrees. That sounds great. And really, we get stuck in this very all or nothing thinking. And what I have designed is and the reason it’s called a grown-up gap year is that it’s not about having obligations, right? It’s not about quitting your job and having no job and no, no family or whatever it is that like you have to take care of. But it is about saying you also belong in the story. And not only do you belong in this story, you’re an integral part of this story. And it’s time that you started showing up like that. And really, for so many of us that are the super achievers. We could like really to phone it in a lot. And everything is gonna be fine. Right? So it’s sort of that way of like, you know, if you were in Greece for the year, would you look at Instagram for an hour every night before bed? Right so it’s an invitation to bring that energy into your life but without having to go live in another country or sell your house or move to a different neighborhood are all of the things that we tell ourselves that we have to do in order to start feeling good in our lives?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  30:12

Yeah. And I totally agree like with the super achiever, you could lower the bar. And a lot of times, no one would even comment on that because you’re performing at such a high level. And that’s one of the things that I really talked to the women I work with, in early sobriety, right, because I’m like, you need to really lower the bar because you’re going to be tired and irritated. And just this stopping drinking thing, you’re processing a lot emotionally and mentally. And so someone said to me, once, so I was always wanting to be like, the A plus girl, you know, like, if I got a b minus, it was really bad. But, you know, this person I was talking to had worked two jobs through college, right? And she said to me, like, you want the degree C’s get degrees, and I was like, okay, C’s get degrees. And then you actually have time for a whole bunch else. And I know, I’m sure some women listening to this are like eight, but you could for a period of time, take it down with the level, you’re overachieving. Because if you’re running around all day, and then coming home and doing more and sort of resentful, and feel like no one’s doing anything for you, or you’re getting the dregs of life. And, you know, that’s not good for anyone.

 

31:32

No, no. And like, if your entire life is an obligation, what’s the point? Yeah, right. Like, what’s the point then? And I think to that, we were like, Okay, well, I’ll do that for a little bit. And then I’ll go back to be an A student. And what happens, right is that all of a sudden, when you get some distance, and you get into communion with yourself, and you start tending to your spirit, and you learn about discernment, and you learn how to give yourself grace, you realize, like, I can go back to that. And the things that you start saying yes to are so much more connected, right? There’s so much more in integrity with who you are, and what you really want, that you’re able to kind of redesign your life, but not in the way of like, I’m dissatisfied, I’m going to redesign my life, right? We’re approaching it from a completely kind of opposite and countercultural way that I think, just bring so much more expansion, and that it feels really good while you’re doing it.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  32:34

Yeah, I mean, I think that was one of the reasons that I named my business and my podcast Hello, someday. Because I feel like for so many women, were like, well, someday I’ll do that. Or someday I’ll take time for myself, or whenever it is, once I you know, once I retire, or once I get this next promotion, then I will stop working so hard, or once the kids are at a school and that day never comes like you can do it in small steps right now. So I love what you’re talking about.

 

33:05

There is no Sunday, right? Like that’s, that’s like the sad fact of it is like we have today. And I think that really like the last 18 months is has shown us a lot of like, there are no guarantees, right? And this is life. We live in this world we’d like anything could happen. So we need to really again, like it’s not about being happy all the time. It’s not about being like, everything’s amazing and never having challenges, right. But it’s, it’s again, it’s about showing up differently and allowing yourself to be in the story instead of just feeling like you’re watching life happen. And maybe one day you can be a part of it.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  33:45

Yeah, yeah. So what are some of the shifts you’ve seen women make? As they’re kind of going through this process?

 

33:53

Yeah, I mean, it’s been it’s, it’s so fun to radically help people like radically trust themselves, right? And it always starts out with like, wait, you want me to what? What? Oh, oh, no, you don’t understand. That’s what I love is like, you don’t understand. I’m so busy. And I’m like, Oh, I understand perfectly. The most beautiful thing that happens is people get to the other side, and they’re like, Oh, you don’t have to keep living that way. Right? Like, Oh, I thought that suit. That’s who I needed to be. And I realized, like, the read the revelation that you can, like, let go and release and that the sky doesn’t fall. I do that a lot when I’m teaching is all like I have a window right here. And I’ll like to look out the window and be like, you guys sky still there. Sky hasn’t fallen. It’s still there. Right. But I think that that for so long. We feel like everything is on our shoulders. But to be like, oh, everything is still working great. And I’m having way more fun and because I’m having way more fun. I feel closer to the people in my life and I’m connecting with them in a different way, right? I’m not Like always, like, ah, or just like busy but uninspired, right? It’s, it’s I think sometimes too. It’s easy to be in the place of, everything’s fine. And I know for me when I quit drinking, I was not drinking at a level that anybody thought was problematic. My husband probably thought it was a little problematic. But you know, from the outside looking in, like, it was fine, I would have maybe one or two glasses of wine, and they gave me and for the most part, like, it was not something that, you know, that that was a rock bottom moment that sent me to sobriety. But I think that for a lot of us, we are good at convincing ourselves that everything’s fine. And if we can show up and really demand for ourselves, a life and an existence that is better than fine, right. And without the doesn’t require us to work harder. That’s the key and doesn’t require us to do more and doesn’t require us to be even more obligated to external things. That’s the key. And it is possible. Yeah.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  36:09

And is it more about you know, when a woman’s like, you mentioned, like, Oh, I can’t do that. I couldn’t possibly do that. I’m too busy. Is it you’re pushing them to say no to things? Or to add things? or some combination of that?

 

36:23

Yeah, I mean, it’s the start is really like, no more achieving, right? So again, it’s looking at what is the energy that is having you say yes to that thing. So that means like, you can be in the PTO next year. Right, you can volunteer to babysit for the thing next year, you can do that next year, right, though you’ve cookies for the thing. Bye. Bye. I’m at the store next, right. And so that’s part of it is we have to clear the space to start. And then you can start to add new things in. But if nothing gets taken away, adding more in is only going to break you it’s not going to do anything to enrich your life.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  37:05

Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes that’s hard to do. I always though I do not do the PTA. I do not do the volunteer like, that is just not me. But I remember when my husband, my son, my husband’s actually a varsity baseball coach at a high school and has been for 20 years. So what you take from that is who really cares about baseball, right? Of course, that means that my son, I quit drinking when he was five. And then again, when he was eight was the last time my son was a baseball what my husband was completely unavailable. And so we did a season. It was like the first year of kid pitch, it was shockingly awful, like painful to watch, because it’s just like, an exercise and watching someone like melt out of the mouth. Because it’s so bad. You can’t get a signal out. And so my husband wasn’t there for all that. And then in the summer, he was like, hey, it needs to do summer ball. Like, it’s really important. And I was just like, dude, I had a younger kid, she was two, I was like, I can’t do this. I literally will not. And so he’s like, well, it’s really important. If he’s gonna keep playing. I was like, great. You do it. And he was like, Okay, I’ll do it. And I was like, nope, that means you can’t go on your big fishing trip. You can’t play your own ball because you’re totally unavailable. And so he sat that with that for a while, because I just wanted to, like, sit in the sunshine and take a nap and enjoy my life. And so finally, he was like, Yeah, I want to play summer ball for himself. I was like, Oh, so that’s not important enough for you, then it is not important enough full stop, you know, because, and that was kind of hard to do. Because then of course, I felt like a bad mother who was like not prioritizing my kids’ happiness. But, you know, I was just like, I don’t want to and like saying no, just because I didn’t want to be hard.

 

39:00

Well, and like, this is a conversation, right? And it’s complicated. And it’s nuanced. And I don’t think that any one thing is right. I don’t think that its kids need to be in sports, or kids don’t need to be in sports. But again, we can operate from so much obligation. I know for us, like our girls are seven, and they have not ever played sports. And part of the reason why is that my husband and I look at will go to the park on a Saturday and we see the soccer practice and the little kids and the parent and I’m like, this is every Saturday, all morning, and then it’s probably two days in the afternoon. And I’m like, I don’t want that. Right. So it can feel selfish. And also right instead of that. What are we doing right? We’re going on hikes, we’re going camping, we are going on long bike rides and having breakfast picnics. So I think that it’s about again, it’s like what are the values what Do you want? How do you want to design your life? If my kids were like we really, really want to play soccer? Sure, okay. Let’s try it. And also, you know, like, what’s the least obligatory? Like, how many What? How many practices do you guys have? How many do you have? Okay, I’m gonna do that one. Because it’s less, right. Like, yeah, we are allowed to make those decisions. And I think that, it’s really important to know what energy is driving in each choice you make. So and this is why it’s less about the thing and more about what energy is driving it. So I can read to my kids, every I read to my kids every night before they go to bed, I can do that out of fear, because I don’t want to be a bad parent. And because I don’t want them to go to college or not, not, you know, like, no value reading, and I don’t want to fail them as a parent. Or I could do that, because I love books. And I want them to love books, and I want them to enjoy reading. And it’s a time that we get to spend together. And it’s kind of a really beautiful tradition now. Either way, my kids are getting ready. Yeah. What’s driving me? And how is that energy showing up in every other thing in my life? Yeah. And I know for me, I’ve done both. I’ve done both ways. That love way feels way better.

 

41:11

Yeah. No, I totally agree. And, and it just, you know, it can vary day to day for sure. You know, I mean, we definitely, you know, my son still plays baseball. And so it’s he was 13. It’s a lot. But you know, when our annual camping trip with friends we’ve had for 10 years came up and he was an all stars. I was like, No, we’re going camping and my husband was like, really iffy on it. And I was like, a 13-year-old baseball game does not Trump, this that is truly important to me every year like he can miss a game. And so I think there’s that balance. And then also like one of my clients who I adore, one year, she was like, oh my god, I really want to drink, and she was at like, four months or something just and I was like, Okay, why? And she was like, I am dying Easter eggs with my three children who are under the age of seven. And I just effing want to drink so bad. I was like, stop dieting, the Easter eggs, you know, it like hadn’t occurred to her because she was like, it’s Easter and my mother’s coming over. And we have to do this hunt. And I was like, go buy the prepackaged eggs with the candy already inside. You know, like you said, do it next year. But if you’re like really gritting your teeth, and resentful, and unhappy and overwhelmed, like, lower the bar, and like lower the bar to the ground, right, like, we don’t really decorate our house for we did last year a little bit for Halloween, but like, we don’t really have a ton of Christmas decorations. And we don’t I’m not a big like house decorator, because I don’t want to deal with it. Right? So it’s something where when we moved to, we moved three years ago, and we are in a much bigger house. And this is like the house or like we’re gonna be here till our girls graduated from high school. And so part of me was like, oh, Christmas, we can like get that then I was like, oh my god, I’m gonna have to go shopping, and have to take everything out of the package. And then later on, we have to put it away. And that all it all it all just sounded like work. Now again, someone might be listening to us and be like, that’s my favorite part of the year.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  43:18

Yeah, like that. lights me up.

 

43:20

I hear about that. Yeah. But to me, I was like, I would I would so much rather go bake 12 different kinds of cookies in the kitchen. Right? Like, that’s, that’s the thing that lights me up. And so, you know, I’m not it’s like identifying your way and letting not be okay, instead of again, trying to follow this prescribed thing that says, your house must be fully decorated a Christmas or you’re a bad you’re not providing your family the right kind of holiday. But again that like do my kids want to bake with me, or do they want to see me stressed out because I’m dealing with like, tensile and glitter everywhere and like, Oh, you know, yeah, and I feel like it’s like that should work right?

 

Every time you hear that that should be like red flags, something to dig into. You know, just because, you know, then you’re like, why and keep following that thread down. Like why and what would happen if you didn’t write and probably like you said the sky wouldn’t fall.

 

44:23

Yeah. And some people in your life might be disappointed. Right, like, that client that you describe her mother might judge her for not having hand dyed Easter eggs.

 

Okay.

 

44:36

Yeah. Okay. Right. And I think that that too, is like a, I am I have become very comfortable disciplining people. I don’t think that I disappoint people regularly, but I do know that there are times when me setting a boundary or asking for what I need, does not give the other person what they need. That doesn’t make me a bad person. It just means that I cannot provide that Unlike that’s completely fair, yeah. Well, it’s a sign of like, of course, your values and priorities don’t match everyone else’s values and priorities right. And so if you never disappoint someone else, it means you’re basically adopting what they care about, and like providing it for them, even though it’s probably a mismatch to like what you truly care about. Yeah.

 

45:25

Yeah. And, and I think that when I, when I really realized that I was like, oh, it felt like so much freedom of like, Oh, I don’t need to keep tap dancing around all of these different things and trying to be all of these different things. And it really was like, okay, that feels great, right? And even just that permission to take a step back and really like, look at am I the person to be able to provide this? And if the answer’s no, again, it’s no judgment on them needing it. It’s just, we’re not, we’re not on the right trajectory.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  45:59

Yeah. Yeah. And I’ve noticed a couple times that you’ve mentioned, I mean, I love the core values exercise or, you know, personal values, starting with that. And then also, you know, what energy? Is it coming from? Why are you doing things? What, you know, is it for you? Or is it because of someone else? And, you know, I interviewed more McKellen, who wrote, we are the luckiest on this podcast. And she does, you know, some work around what is your bigger? Yes. And what I thought was interesting is she’s like, 90% of people come in, and they’re like, I need a different job, I need to change my job. And so what, what she’s found through the work is that some people do that. But like, a lot of people, it’s not the job or the marriage, or you know, your kid, it’s, it’s needing to find deeper meaning in the work you’re doing that is more aligned to, you know, not the should or, or I’m supposed to do this, but rather, what do I care about? And it’s more like an internal shift.

 

47:03

Yeah, I mean, I think it’s always we always have to start with the internal shifts. That’s why I stopped on my podcast, raise your hand, say yes. Right, as I was talking about that, but I knew too, that I wanted to start talking about some other things, and that it’s not just about what are you doing? What action Are you taking? Right? It’s really about what is the foundation of your being, and where we can insert meaning into anything. So some people need a new job, because they might have a toxic boss, or it might be a really unhealthy work environment, or it might just be a mismatch. Absolutely. Right. This is not like, Oh, you think you need a new job, you’re wrong. And also, I think it’s very, very common for people to think that their job is the villain, and then they get a new job.

 

And then they’re like, Oh, yeah, why am I still dealing with all this stuff? Right? I did that like seven times, right? Like, the problem was the same job. And then I go and like, repeat the same behaviors. And of course, I was drinking and the same, like stress and, you know, insecurities and all that shit. So it was probably six of one-half dozen of the other.

 

48:10

Right? And then there, you know, there’s a whole unraveling, which is why were you in those jobs and why were you know, it’s a whole thing. But when you can say like, well, the common denominator is me. Yeah, right. Like, I am the one having all these experiences. So maybe I will approach in a different way. And I think that’s also really important is that we, we are we are constantly told what to do differently, and how to change ourselves by experts at changing ourselves. And, you know, I’m a coach and, and one of my big things that I tell people all the time is like, I am not the expert of your life you are and my work is really focused on helping people find their own way into and through their lives instead of looking to me to adopt my way, because I don’t think that my way is right for everybody. And in fact, like, I don’t necessarily know that my specifics are right for anybody. So instead, it’s about trying to facilitate a process where people where they can then become the authorities have their own life instead of again, need it like, you know, being told, like this is this is how you do it, and then I’ll make sure you follow it like that. That doesn’t last.

 

Yeah, yeah. So it’s really a process of sort of self-discovery and exploration and, and trusting that sort of that inner knowing, finding a finding for some people, it’s finding it for some people, it starts with trusting it for some people, it’s just like, I have an inner knowing, right, like, what are you talking about, you know, and, and getting quiet long enough to getting quiet and sitting still long enough to do it. And really also like, as much as possible, like alleviating the obligation and the pressure from it. So you know, people Like, sometimes people are like, Well, I have this five-year plan. And I’m always like, I don’t, I don’t care about your five-year plan. I care about how you feel today. Because again, we are so good at like, projecting our fulfilment onto the future. And when I’m in this role, and when I lose this weight, and when I write this book, and when I get to this level, then I’ll be happy. And I really think that the energy that we infuse into things is, can inform what they produce. So if we are showing up as fallen out of obligation, you know, we’re, you might have a momentary blip, but essentially, you’re going to wake up the next morning and be the same person that you were the day before. And I don’t ever want someone to get to that place and be like, what have I done for the last five years? Yeah, that doesn’t feel good.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  50:45

Yeah. And when you were talking about that, one thing I thought of, I’m not sure if you’re familiar with Danielle Laporte and the desire map framework. But the one thing that I thought was super interesting, from what I’ve read about her work is the idea of, we keep doing things, and setting plans and goals out, because we think once we achieve it, we’re going to feel in a certain way, right? So when I get that promotion, I’ll feel financially secure and validated and, you know, worthy, and all those things. And she kind of wants you to reverse engineer it and say, Okay, how do I want to feel? And what would I do today, if I felt that way? Because otherwise, you? You know, as soon as you get to that place, you’ll feel the same way, often, that you do now, or something different, that’s still unsatisfying, and then set your next goal?

 

51:41

Yeah. And there’s always there’s always more to do, right. I mean, I think one thing that I feel wary of is in our coaching world, a lot of people are like abundance and have an abundance mindset and make sure and I don’t know if you’ve read the book, the soul of money by Lynn twist, but one thing that she talks about is how really like abundance and scarcity are kind of the same energy, because scarcity is kind of sticking with like, not enough, never enough and with abundance, right? Well, how do you know when you get to the place of abundance, right? There’s always more that can be earned or gained or done. And, and said she, she talks about bringing in a mindset of sufficiency, which is I have enough today in this moment to do what I want to do today in this moment. And I find that to be so liberating and freeing to be like, Oh, right, for me and my business. It’s not about a year from now. It’s not about a month from now. It’s, Do I have enough for today, to be here and to be content? And it’s just so easy to get ahead of ourselves? Oh, that’s super interesting.

 

52:45

You’ll have to tell me what book that is. Again, so I can put it in the show notes. What was

 

52:50

it? It’s called the soul of money. Okay. And her name is Lynn. I think l y n n e twist

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  52:57

is her okay. Yeah, this self-sufficiency was that what you said versus scarcity or abundance? I love that. That’s great. And when you when you said, when you were talking about, you know, getting there, whatever. I know that a lot of us feel like we can only make a move if we have everything figured out, right? So we know exactly what’s going to happen. And that was a big thing. For me when I was in corporate, right, I wasn’t really happy. But I couldn’t figure out or I didn’t know for sure what else I could do, where I could make this same income and this, you know, all the various things and be happier. And so you talk about like, doing things before you have your master plan, figured out? How do you help women do that?

 

53:47

Yeah, I mean, it again, a lot of it is really informed by how do you want to feel and then trusting yourself enough to have faith to take a step? I do a lot around experimentation. And one of the things that I love about experimentation is a when you’re, you know, in high school chemistry class, you’re not. You’re not setting out an experiment to find the answer. You’re testing a hypothesis. And for so many of us who are really good at certainty, however we needed to be I just want to know the answer. A lot of times to be like, oh, okay, I’m sensing a hypothesis. It’s not a value judgment. It’s not that I’m deficient if it’s wrong. It’s a test, right? So you make a hypothesis, which is a guess. And then you run through some methods and you collect data, and then you use that data to determine Did you prove or disprove the hypothesis? And then you start over and then you start over? And I know for me, like, that’s kind of how I live my life. And what we think, is that, okay, let me do that a few times, and then I’ll get to the place of certainty, when in fact, it’s like, I don’t I feel mostly uncertain all the time. I’m like, I’m really operating from my best guess. And I’m okay. Right? Like, it’s actually served me really well, to be able to show up to my life from that place of faith and trusting myself trusting my intuition. And not only is it served me, but like, it’s actually allowed me to do more and different things. And if I was just following the rules.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  55:24

Yeah, absolutely. Well, so one last thing I wanted to ask you about, and its sort of like an outlier from what we’ve talked about. So far. But I know you were recently diagnosed with ADHD. And, you know, I actually interviewed another podcast host who I absolutely adore. She’s the podcast, host of the shameless mom Academy. And we talked about perfectionism. And she also was recently diagnosed with ADHD and got a lot of sort of aha moments from that and sort of introspection. So can you talk about that? And what you’ve learned?

 

56:03

Oh, gosh, yeah, I mean, I’ve learned so much in that. And I would say it was like four months ago. So it is very, very recent. And for me, right, it’s also been another, another confirmation of my own inner knowing it’s something that I’ve thought that I probably had for year, many, many years. And that when I’ve talked to various people about it, they’ve typically been like, oh, you’re fine. Because I was so good at keeping everything going, right. Like, I took care of my kids, I showed up for my business, I got stuff done. And for me, one of the big turning points and really seeking out my diagnosis came when I when I started to recognize that, like they’ll say, and when you read list of symptoms, and all of that, that, in order for it to be a diagnosable disorder, it has to impact your life in a negative way. Right. And I think that that, for me was something where like, looking around, nobody would say that it impacted my life. I mean, I’m messy, right at piles, but it’s not like a big deal. doesn’t have a lot of aisles around. But for me, when I realized, like, Oh, it’s affecting me internally, right, like, internally, I am holding on so tightly. And like, I cannot keep holding on tightly. And so that was for me, what, what really got me to seek out my diagnosis. And I think, that I’ve heard from since I got my diagnosis and talked about it openly. And for anyone who’s listening about like, hour long Podcast, where I go into a lot more detail about it. But so many women who are high performing, have either said, like, I was also just recently diagnosed, or who heard my podcast episode about it, and then sought out a diagnosis for themselves. And it’s like, everything makes sense. Now. It’s been really, really eye opening, where it’s like, oh, my God, everything makes sense now, and it’s not that, like, for so long, I thought the answer was like, Tiffany just needs to try harder. Because that’s what we’re taught. And that wasn’t the answer. And like, there’s so much freedom and that.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  58:14

That’s great. That’s great. And so I know we’re coming to the end of our time here. But if women are listening to this, and they are in that space of sort of overachieving, overworking, under living, just kind of gritting their teeth through life, is there anything you kind of want to share with them to kind of take away and get started?

 

58:37

I think the very first place to play is that like, it can be different. And that really offering the idea that finding a different way doesn’t mean that you have to check out or become lazy or not care about things. Your effort is not the thing that determines your value and your worth. And it’s not the thing that determines how much you care about everything that’s important to you. And that there, there’s a much truer way that you can show up to all of it. And it’s really expansive. So I think just like leaving people with that idea, and like that is the truth and letting that sit with people because So, so long, we’re like, Oh, that sounds great. But you don’t, you don’t understand so busy. It’s like no, no, no, it’s so it’s so much better on the other side. And that was something that I heard a lot about sobriety before I quit drinking. I was like obsessed with listening to people’s sobriety stories, which is a sign. And I would always hear people talk about how much better their relationships were how much better their friendships were in sobriety and I just could not imagine that and it’s something that like, has absolutely been true for my experience like oh, everything is so much richer when I am showing up fully as myself. So I think that this is another way that that, like, it just gets richer and richer. And we have to be able to believe it in order to start to take those steps.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:00:10

Yeah, yeah, that’s great. Well, I know women are gonna want to get in touch with you follow up with you learn about your grown-up gap year. So how can they do that?

 

1:00:20

Yeah, so I’m super easy to find. You can search my name Tiffany Han. It’s spelled h en Han like solo, wherever you’re listening to this podcast, and my podcast has been around for seven years. So there’s weekly podcasts for seven years. There’s lots of episodes to dive into. My website is tiffanyhan.com and I’m on Instagram @thetiffanyhan.

 

1:00:43

Perfect. Well, thank you so much for coming on. This has been amazing.

Yeah. Thank you for having me. This is great.