SUMMARY KEYWORDS

drinking, alcohol, divorce, toxic coparenting, co-parenting, co-parent, course, anger, peace, sobriety, trauma, people pleasing, stop drinking, stopped drinking, sober, sober curious, deeper work, why we drink, helps, heal, survive, surviving, cravings, not drinking, alcohol-free, sobriety starter kit, community, membership, connection, life changing, moderate, coping skills, coping mechanism, women, manage anxiety, hard times, relationship with yourself, toxic anger, story, shift, do whatever you can to create peace for yourself in the moment, consequences, antidepressants, anti-anxiety meds, resonate, vulnerable, brave, truth, rebuilding, life, mixed emotions, early motherhood, kids, postpartum depression, recovery, marriage, married, husband, patriarchy, wife, socialize, spouse, mom, change, without alcohol, mental health, addiction, quit drinking, quitting drinking, anxiety, setting a boundary, boundaries, remove the alcohol, guilt, shame, addictive behaviors, patterns, care, forcing the rock bottom, gaslighting, therapy, emotional sobriety, healthier practice, healing, journey, women’s mental health, alcohol abuse, recovery, 12 step program, AA, Al-Anon, support, therapy, take a break from alcohol, sober coach

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Suzanne Warye

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a bus, how to sit with your emotions, when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Hey friends.

Today’s episode is extra special because I get to welcome back one of my closest friends, Suzanne Wayre, the creator of the Sober Mom Life podcast, founder of the Sober Mom Life Cafe, and now the author of a brand new book, The Sober Shift: A Modern Day Guide to Living An Abundant Sober Life.

If you’ve been around for a while, you already know Suzanne. She joined me back in episode 147 to talk about being a Sober Mom in a wine mom world, and again, in episode 268, where we talked about the Sober Secrets of Summer.

 

[00:02:00]

She’s been on a bunch of other times. We’ve talked about Sober October, Dry January, and probably just chatting about life with one of our other great friends, Gill Tietz from Sober Powered.

But Suzanne is back to share her story, her wisdom, and what inspired her to write the Sober Shift.

 

And I’ve told you, Suzanne, I love the book. It’s smart and honest and really fucking funny. And we are going to talk about all the Gen X shit that’s in there.

Oh yes. Right? Yes.

And I really think every woman listening to this should order it. Get it. Buy it if you’re in the Seattle area or a bunch of other place. You should do it soon because I get to interview Suzanne in person at the end of October.

Yay. In Seattle at one of the coolest bookstores around. And so, Suzanne, I’m just going to jump in.

[00:03:00]

Hey, Casey, I love being here and the, the fact that we have been, what did you say? Like episode 140 something and then 268. What? That’s wild. Yeah.

You, you’ve actually been on way before 147 because we’ve done a bunch of different episodes with Gill and stuff. We’re doing this a long time.

We’ve been, yeah, we’ve been around.

We’ve been friends for like 3 years. Yes. Plus and like friendship in sobriety is one thing where it’s like, so fast forward, but friendship as a sobriety. Whatever we are, whatever we call ourselves. That’s like on another level, right? Yeah.

 

Oh man. Yeah, totally. And when I say we’re friends, I mean Suzanne, Gill and I have a group text. Uh-huh that is off the charts busy. It has been for 3 years straight. Yes. Like the conversation has not ended for 3 years. And it’s, it’s like nothing is off limits, which I love. Like we talk about – we just, we’re just honest.

[00:04:00]

Like, we break down our businesses and we’re, we’re like, okay, what, what is this? What are we doing here? Like I, it’s like our own little mastermind and I love it. Yeah, me too. And I got, you know, when people say something, in my group just yesterday someone was saying that one of Gill’s episodes was amazing.

And,  of course, I immediately screenshot that. Yes. And send it to the 3 of us. And I’m like, oh my god, Gill getting some love today. But also when it get shitty emails or people like being mean to us, we screenshotted and like, you guys, I got this nasty email at like 9:00 PM on a Saturday night.

But it’s really helpful because you can get really beaten down in this endeavor too. Yes. It’s so helpful. You guys have helped me so much because I do think that this kind of like the business of sobriety is like a wild, wild west thing, that it’s hard to navigate and to manage.

[00:05:00]

And to have you guys just be able to like, I’m like, Hey, am I going crazy here, or what about this? Or like, Hey, I’m thinking of this. And it’s just to bounce ideas off of each other and then yes, to vent, like we vent totally. Yeah. And half the time it’s amazing. You are the queen of retreats. And so, I’m like, oh my God, my member group, we got together.

They want do it again. You have to tell me everything about retreats. Yes. Or membership groups. Or programs or what are you doing for Dry January? But also I think people forget that we’re human beings with feelings. Yes. And they are really surprised. Like if you email me, it comes into my personal email box on my phone on Sunday mornings.

So, when people they just think they’re sending their rage out in the universe. And I’m like, hi there. I am not like, that was really mean, but I’m like. Damn. I’m sitting with my kids on my front porch and you’re going off on me like, I’m the evil incarnate and yes. All I’m trying to do is put good shit out into the world and help people.

And it feels so personal because it kind of is like our whole brands are like very personal, right? They’re all born from. Yes. They’re our lives. We’re putting our daily lives out there and our struggles and the shit that, like we did. But the good messages definitely outweigh by 10 times the bad.

Which is why we keep going. But it really is helpful to both share the good and share the love because we get a lot of that. And when I see it for you and Gill, I’m like, you guys.

Yes. Fucking hitting it out of the park with this pod episode. And also, you know, we get our feelings hurt and it’s helpful to have a friend who gets it to be like. No, man. You’re doing good work. Yeah. We need, we need each other in this space. Yeah. And, and I love that we have our own things and we’re in the same space.

[00:07:00]

There’s zero competition among us. Yeah. It’s just like, no, no, no. I, how can we put our brains together to make these the best that they can be? Right. And that I love that. I love us. Yeah. And that I love us too. And the other thing is like there are so many women out there who want to stop drinking or need support.

 

Yeah. And, and that’s a good thing. If you guys feel alone in this, like early sobriety or struggle to moderate or just you think you’re the only one.

The number is kind of infinite. It goes on and on and you’re not alone. When you stop drinking, there is a universe of women who get it Yes. Who are incredible and who want to be your friends.

 

And like Suzanne and I and Gill, like we met through this shit. Yes. And it’s. It warms your heart and it fills you up and it gives you energy. And I have to say a lot more than a bunch of my shallow friendships when I was boozing it up and not remembering the end of nights.

[00:08:00]

Totally. And when, you know, when you first quit drinking, that’s probably what you have the most of is like the drinking buddies, right?

 

Yeah. Where it’s like, well, obviously we’re going to get together Friday, Saturday night and drink. When that goes away, it does feel like, oh my God, I’m lonely. I don’t have anybody. But, and then that’s the tearing down, and then the building is like, you might not right now, but you will.

And the friendships that are waiting for you in sobriety are just so much more meaningful and real and forgiving and all, all of the wonderful things that friendship can be.

 

The drinking buddies, like you will look back and be like, oh yeah, that was, that was surface. And it, it was just around alcohol. And your real friends will stick around and you will get closer to them and more honest and more vulnerable.

[00:09:00]

And I just remember being at work and all my coworkers were like, we’re going out drinking in Seattle. Come. And I lived 30, 40 minutes away. And the thought that came over me was, I don’t even like hanging out with you guys in the office. I’m not driving to hang out with you and not drink at a bar while you guys were all boozing and bitching and getting catty in my free time.

But when I was drinking, I would’ve been like, yeah, let’s go. And then, I would’ve said shit that I shouldn’t have said. You know what I mean? Like, well, when the not been the person I want to be. Have you ever been with drinking buddies and be like, I don’t like who I was then?

Yes. So much and like when the, the draw wasn’t the people, the draw is the alcohol. Right. And you couldn’t kind of care less who the people are because it’s like, yeah, come on in. Draw. , But when you take away, like when alcohol’s no longer the draw, it really highlights the people. And then you’re like, yeah.

[00:10:00]

Oh you’re actually, especially if they’re drinking, you’re like, oh, that’s actually not fun. And like, yeah, alcohol’s no longer motivating me to come out and drive 30. No, no. Yeah. Yeah.

You know what’s interesting? Someone in my member community posted over the weekend and said that she was in New York City and posted the most adorable pictures of her and her 4-year-old son on the highline and was like.

Here’s how I spent my weekend with my little boy and she said, we did this last year and I took him to a restaurant where they served alcohol and drank wine. And I was like, we think it’s so fun and exciting when we’re drinking. All you’re doing is sitting at the same table, drinking the same shit in different locations. Yes. Like you’re not doing anything differently. You’re just rotating where you’re drinking, doing the same boring thing. Totally.

And just like numbing out and not being able to be present for where you are. So one of my best friends lived in New York and I went to visit her. Now she’s back in Chicago. But I went to visit her and. And a couple of our friends had visited the weekend before and they just wanted to go bar to bar to bar to bar to bar, like all day.

 

[00:11:00]

And I visited her the next weekend and she drinks but obviously we didn’t drink together. And she was like, because I was like, oh, let’s go to MoMA because it’s right around here and then let’s go to this park and let’s go to, you know, whether it was Bryant Park or wherever. And she was like, dude, we did more today.

We filled our day with , fun New York City stuff. And when you drink, generally you’re going to want to drink wherever you are. And then it doesn’t matter where you are. Like you could just be in your garage. You could be in an Irish bar in New York City or in Alabama, or in Seattle in or in Ireland, like you’re, you’re just sitting in an Irish bar in a new location.

[00:12:00]

Like go get out of the bars. Get out of the bars, please. Like, even if you still drink, even if you’re just sober curious, go, go adventure. Because you, once you see everything you can do when you’re not focused on what’s in your cup, I mean, the world opens up like insane.

Yeah. And there was another woman who is actually in pretty early sobriety who was saying, okay, I’m going away with my husband and family to this place, and he agreed not to drink with me. So we’re going to take the money that we normally spent drinking and we’re going to rent an ATV and go on an adventure.

And I was like, yes. You and your husband are going to remember that for years. Yes. Other than let me sit around our cabin and drink. Yes. Like we do. Yes. Every year. Yes. And like every day or every Friday or every Saturday, right? Yeah. Yes. Ugh.

[00:13:00]

Yes. Okay. We need to talk about your book because oh my gosh, I read it, I read it a few months ago because I got to like, you were like, I got to write a little blurb of. Yeah.

Yes. Which I loved, and I read it again this week and you, did I get to interview you? Of course. You’re such a good, you know what I mean? I prepare my friend. You really do. You guys, she, she prepares so much. You probably have an outline. You probably like, you are such a good podcast host. I got to say.

You’re so nice. Okay. But of course what I talk to you, it’s just like, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah. Gill and I and you were texting like half an hour before we started this, and she asked you how you were feeling about putting the sober shift out in the world. Yeah. And you said a little uncomfortable because you felt naked.

So, tell me about that.

Oh man. You know, this is, that’s how it feels. I think that’s like the best word for it, is naked or like exposed.

[00:14:00]

I wrote this book, you know, over 2 and a half years, just me, like here in my closet or in my office, just at my desk, at the library. Like, no one.

By the way, her closet is gorgeous. So, you know, yeah. I mean, it’s, yeah, it’s huge. You’re like, in my closet, just in my little closet in the corner, just sitting on the floor.

No, I, it’s a good space. It’s here.

She records her podcast and it’s gorgeous. Yes. Okay, go on. You wrote it like my, like my safe space.

You know, I was in the library. I had like my favorite spot in our public library and in front of Windows, like looking out. I would go there. No one, you know, it felt like my kind of journal, my little secret, my little, like no one knew what I was writing. No one, I had my I had my editor and, but it, it just, it. It, it’s just a big leap from like that to then eyes on my words.

Right. And I, it feels like, oh, okay.

[00:15:00]

Holy shit. Even just talking about it right now, my heart goes a little pitter patter. Yeah. And I’m like, okay, you know, what is, what are they going to think? Because I am opening myself up to criticism and a lot of it is my story. A lot of like personal things that I haven’t shared before.

And I’m a public person on Instagram and on the podcast, but there are stories in there that I’ve not yet shared. And so, you know, that’s scary. It’s just, it’s scary.

You know, my, I was on another podcast and she was like, well, what do you think? Because my thing is like, I didn’t hit rock bottom. Like I didn’t wait for rock bottom. You can read some of those stories and be like, that sounds a lot like rock bottom, right? Yeah. Some people might read this book and be like, actually nursing your baby in a blackout kind of sounds like rock bottom to me. Right?

 

[00:16:00]

And some might read the book and be like, oh yeah.

You know, like she didn’t lose a lot from the outside. And I think that that just highlights that everyone’s going to have an opinion about your drinking and that it really is just up to us to get quiet and say like, how does this feel to me? And so I hope that, that that’s what this book does for women is just allows them the space to say despite everyone else’s opinion, and despite how I grew up and despite my lowest moments and all of this stuff, like how does this feel for me?

How do I really feel about my drinking? Yeah. And I know a lot of people are going to be so grateful that you were honest because, and, and we’re going to talk further about the book. Yeah. One of the things I love that you do in each chapter, so Suzanne bares her heart, which by the way, we’ve been friends, close friends for years.

 

[00:17:00]

I hadn’t heard some of those stories. Yeah. Yeah. And you bare your heart in a really vulnerable, relatable way, and then you’re like, it’s your turn in terms of what’s your deepest shame about drinking? Yeah. Like what did you do that you don’t want to talk about it? Write it down, but because you were so honest, even if what you did wasn’t what I did and trust me.

 

Yeah. I’m like, I have no rock bottom, and then I, talk about some shit and I’m like, yeah, some people, but you know, I feel like that’s a common thing though. Yeah. Right. You’re like, well, if I actually detail it, which by the way, I don’t because fuck, you know. Right. That’s when you write it down.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you’re like, okay, if she can share this. Plus, when you were writing stuff, I was like, oh yeah, I’m remembering that. I’m remembering that from college and I’m remembering this shit. And cringe.

[00:18:00]

But, that’s okay, but when you’re drinking it feels so scary. Yeah, once you stop drinking, a lot of that shit feels kind of funny.

Not the nursing your kid in a blackout. And by the way, I certainly have done things that I’m not proud of, but like some of the shit, like throwing up in inappropriate places or going home with people I shouldn’t have, like that shit becomes kind of funny.

 

Well, and I think Yes, exactly. And, and what it does, and this is what I found in, in my sobriety journeys, like that shame, right? The shame of all of our drinking stories and like what we did and who, or who we slept with or what we allowed and all of this stuff that is in there that we aren’t really, we’re just, we don’t feel like we can really look at that until we’re done drinking or until we really want to face our relationship with alcohol and then speaking it and sharing it.

 

[00:19:00]

It really does. Right size it, right? Like it, it gets like, okay, okay, so you nursed your baby in a blackout, right? Like the first time I realized that, oh, I mean, I, I wanted to die. I wanted to die, right? Because I, it just felt so big. And the lie that the shame told was that I was a bad mom. And all of, there’s all of the lies that the shame tells us.

And now I can say that with so much compassion for myself and it Right. Sizes it to like, okay, yeah, you fucked up. Yeah. Right? Like, yeah, not a great move. But that’s not the end of the story. That is not the lie of like, oh no, how could I do this? What’s wrong with me? That is what’s removed and was removed from me when I like, yeah.

Started to say these things and, and there’s more in the book. But yeah.

[00:20:00]

Yeah, I know. And one thing that I love to think about when you get to the other side, you can see this clearly is I love flipping the question from and this could be oh my God, I drink too much. Like I did this shit that’s bad.

Why do I quote unquote “have a problem” when nobody else does? Why can’t I be normal? Right. You know all the shit that you probably are thinking. Yeah. Like I love to flip the question from why is this happening to me? Meaning like, why do I struggle with alcohol? Right. Why don’t I have an off switch to how is this happening for me?

And you can take those moments like what you did, that is your shame or whatever it is. And like I said, I got my own.

 

Yeah, to Yes, I did that, but it had to get to that point for me to walk away from this. Yeah. That was keeping me stuck and having me live in this like kind of Okay. Kind of average, partially shitty thing.

[00:21:00]

Yeah. And stop drinking and discover myself and start a podcast and make new heartfelt friends and do mm-hmm. Whatever it is you are meant to do in the next decade of your life. Yeah. And in the book, this is what I love, you talk about it not as a rock bottom, not about recovery, but about reclamation. And I think that how is this happening for me?

 

All the shit is happening so you can reclaim your life and live a bigger and better one. Yes, like the term recovery for me, I, I’ve never said I’m in recovery. I’ve never felt like I was in recovery except probably for that first, you know, day and a half of my last hangover, I was very clearly recovering, right? I was not operating at full potential I was sick and anytime anyone says recovery to me, and I’ve had so many surgeries in my life and I’ve recovered from so much that sobriety’s not for me at least, it’s not a, it’s, I’m not in recovery.

 

[00:22:00]

I’m reclaiming my ability to. Be present in life to feel all of the things, to figure out how I feel and then, and then discover what I need. And, and it is like a reclaiming, it’s like a, it is like a healing and like a going back to being like, okay, let me go back to before alcohol came in and fuck shit up.

 

Yeah. Yeah. And I know that’s another reason why we’re friends. because I don’t like the word recovery either. And I don’t sit there like I’m living in recovery. Yeah. Because that feels like this label of, I’m always going to be tentative, I’m always going to be vulnerable. And when I think back, like you were saying,

when I was drinking bottle of wine at night, I was recovering every fucking day. I was recovering. Standing at the bus stop with my 2-year-old and my 8-year-old. I was shaky. I was ill, I was recovering and I’m like, I stopped drinking  and now I’m just living. I’m not living in recovery. I’m just living.

 

[00:23:00]

Yes. Yeah. Recovery does feel to me too, like kind of, you’re in the shadow of alcohol and you’re just always going to be tethered to it. And I’m like, no. There, there’s no shadow here. Alcohol has no place.

 

So, yeah, yeah, yeah. And okay. Through this, because you know me, I’ve taken notes.

I want to read something to what you wrote because we’re talking about it, but you wrote it so perfectly and it says, maybe for some of us it’s something other than recovery. What if it’s instead an outgrowing? How would that shift your perspective? And this I love, think about the other things you’ve been proud to outgrow. Shedding something or someone who holds you back can be exhilarating. Yeah, yeah. Drinking was holding you back.

Yeah. You’re outgrowing it. I was outgrowing daily hangovers and being on my knees throwing up red wine like when I was 40. That wasn’t cute anymore. It was time to outgrow it and be someone new. And, early on in my sobriety, maybe like a year in, I was like, hold on. I think this is just something I’ve outgrown. I think I was still trying to figure out how I was thinking about my sobriety and when I thought about, when I started drinking and I was, you know, 16, 17 at that party that I write about, like, how am I expecting this thing to continue and kind of keep up with where am in my life right now when it, yeah, it served a purpose, right? It, it helped me escape when I really wanted to escape my home that I didn’t love , but I don’t have a home I don’t love anymore.

 

Yeah, I love, I love my home and I love this life that I’ve created and that I’m creating and all of the people in it and I no longer need that. And I think especially for women in our 40s, I do think we have this grappling like, well I don’t, you know, giving it up would be too drastic of a thing.

[00:25:00]

I’m not quote unquote “that bad”, but also it is getting in the way of people I love and what I love to do and, and my skin and you know, just all of these things. And so, I think being able to say, oh, I think this is something I’ve outgrown, that I can be proud of that rather than oh, Wamp Wamp, I’ve lost this, privilege of drinking.

 

It’s like, no, no, no. You’re just too good for that shit now. Like you have different tools. Yeah. Yeah. And I do think that drinking becomes the easy button, right? Yeah. Like you are anxious, drink, you’re upset, drink, you are terrified of layoffs coming in your job, drink what? You know, you’re moving to a new city and you have no friends drink.

It’s your easy button that developed when you were 14 or 16 or 19 or whatever.

[00:26:00]

Yeah. And the minute that came into your life. You stopped developing the coping tools and the ways of navigating life that you really should have learned at 14 or 17 or 19. Yes. So it is holding you back because once you stopped drinking, you’re like, holy shit, I should have learned this when I went to college.

 

My life would’ve been a lot easier. Right?

It is. It is a way that we kind of send this message to ourself that as soon as, yes, something sticky, something uncomfortable, something sad, something heart wrenching, something scary, social anxiety, all of the things that if we’re immediately reaching for a glass of wine, we are sending ourselves this message like, You are discounted. Like, you can’t do this. You are not strong enough to feel this, you are not capable to experience this and this thing will help you.

[00:27:00]

And that I think is one of the biggest lies. You know, there are a lot of lies when it comes to alcohol, but that’s just one of the lies, is that we’re just immediately discounting ourselves when actually y you can feel all of that.

Whatever thing you’re thinking of right now that is scaring you can and you will survive it without alcohol. Better. Yeah. You’ll thrive through it without alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s also kind of lazy, Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just, when I talk about the easy button, when we talk about this woman who’s awesome, like going to the Highline with her kid, or you and your friends going to the MoMA and seeing all of New York, it’s kind of lazy to be like, we’re going to have fun.

 

Let’s drink in a different location. Right. It’s very not, it’s not creative. There’s world out there. Yeah. It’s like, and you’re missing, missing out on shit. Yes. You’re, you’re miss, you’re like literally missing out. That’s one of the chapters in the book.

[00:28:00]

You know, one of the things that people are afraid of, it’s like FOMO, like fear of missing out when you stop drinking. I’m like, man, do we have that all wrong? I wish I could tell you and show you everything that you’re missing out when you are drinking. Not only physically, but , the experience of life. Of Yeah. All of it, right?

 

Yeah. Yeah. You, you have tunnel vision. Yes. And there’s this, if you were to take off those blinders and look to your left and look to your right, you’d be like, wow, there’s a whole universe out here. Yeah. And I’ve been staring at these fucking bottles of wine. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like a cult. It’s totally, yeah.

It totally feels like, well, I’ve never been in a cult, but I feel like that’s what it would feel like, that you’re like, no, I can’t imagine. And then when you’re out of it, you’re like, oh, I can’t imagine going back in, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we’ve talked about this before you are a baby Gen Xer.

I’m a mid Gen Xer. Yeah. And when I was reading the book, I was laughing because you are talking to me.

[00:29:00]

All the references in the book Uh-huh to Beverly Hills oh two one oh. And you kids on the block at Valley High. Uh-huh and I totally resonated when you wrote about the PSAs with the fried egg and this is your brain on drugs.

Yes. And the fact that growing up. We were never shown shit that was like, this is your brain on alcohol. No, there was that like huge cultural blind spot. So you write about the truth about alcohol, but tell me about that. Like, this is your brain on drugs. Like why are Gen Xers and boomers and maybe people slightly younger than us?

 

Yeah. Like they fucked us up man. They, no, they totally fucked us up and, and like my mom’s always like, I’m sorry. And I’m like, mom, you didn’t know. Like there just wasn’t this groundswell of, that we’re seeing now of like, oh, alcohol causes cancer. I had no idea about alcohol. I didn’t know it was addictive.

 

[00:30:00]

When I stopped drinking, I was 39 years old. I grew up thinking, yeah, like right. Drugs. I was like, no, thank you. Those are obviously for people who don’t have their shit together. I will not be one of those people. And eventually smoking. Right. It was like, oh yeah, I’m not going to smoke.

That shit’s bad for you. Yes. Although I did love a cigarette when I drank. Oh, yeah. Well obviously we, we, Casey develop. Did do that, developed that later. Yeah, we did. It was like, oh yeah. Oh yeah. When I was drinking, I mean, when I grew up, you could smoke on planes, which is hysterical because there were like, I mean, when I was a kid, there were different sections.

So, the front which was funny, was not smokey, but the back was, there was just hilarious.  Like if you were in. C 30, 30 versus 31, the guy behind you is smoking a shit load. Hilarious. But you could hilarious smoke in offices. Then once they outlawed that and put Yeah, people smoke in the rainy garage, then you were like, oh, that shit’s not good for you.

You know? Yeah. But yeah, alcohol, we never got that. No, we never got that. I remember like pot is the gateway drug, right?

If you’re listening to this episode and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit®. The Sobriety Starter Kit® is an online self study, sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step-by-step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one-on-one coaching. And The Sobriety Starter Kit® is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it, when it fits into your schedule.  You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time. This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step-by-step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life. You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better, you’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course.

 

[00:31:00]

So, I was very afraid of pot, which you guys, alcohol is the gateway drug. So I don’t know, like a hundred percent. I mean, yeah, like pot’s horrible too. But alcohol is the gateway drug. I, so I wasn’t like, I wanted to be a good kid and that just the conversations did not include alcohol.

I never tried cocaine because I would love it, and so I was like, no. Either terrified. Yes. I wouldn’t recover from that. Right? Like, I was like, no, Keep her by the way. Thank God. Because like my braid and the way, oh, I would’ve loved it. Dopamine. That would’ve been bad news. Casey, we would’ve loved it. Self-preservation never did hard drugs, right? Never did. Yes. By way, even that hard drugs, I know like, oh, alcohol’s fine. We just don’t want to do the hard stuff. Oh my God. It, the 90s were wild. The, just growing up in the 80s and 90s. It wasn’t. And so, then I remember just like on the day of my last hangover being like, all right, fine.

[00:32:00]

Just fuck it. Let me see what alcohol is. And I listened to, this naked mind and we are the luckiest. And I was like, hold on. What? Like it’s, what do you It’s ethanol. What do you mean? Like, I had 0% information on this thing that had been in my life for so long. And then, and it’s, it’s a thing like once you start learning, you’re like, oh, oh, okay. I can’t unlearn that.

 

Yeah. I tried to include as much as I could of that in the book without getting too heady. because I’m not, I’m not a Scientist. Gill helped me a lot with that. You guys, this book has footnotes. And so I researched the hell out of it and that was the hardest part making sure the research was up to date and that’s just not how my brain works.

But I really wanted to make sure telling the truth about alcohol included the actual scientific facts about alcohol. You’ve got the scientific facts in there, which are important because once you know you can’t unknown. But you go from here’s what alcohol actually does to your body.

 

[00:33:00]

Like, let’s talk about the truth of it. But then you also have in there five things that alcohol steals from us that we don’t think about.

So you write about the ability to trust yourself, confidence, precious memories, sleep and money. Right? Yeah. Like those are the things we gloss over. Totally. You know, precious memories. I was blacked out on moments that should have been really, really special. Yeah. And. All we say about that is, oh, that was epic, right?

Totally. Or like, I was worried you don’t tell the truth. No. Or we take the fall, right? Yeah. I think a lot of times, like we take the blame for what alcohol steals and we say, man, if I would’ve just drank, it was, I didn’t drink enough water. I didn’t drink the water in between, or I didn’t eat enough bread.

It’s somehow user error. And then we are like in that cycle of beating ourselves up, why didn’t I just drink better? Right?

[00:34:00]

Yeah. Instead really putting the focus on, hold on, hold on. This is alcohol’s thing. This is what alcohol did. Alcohol stole this from you, right? Yeah. And really making alcohol the villain.

 

Yeah. Instead of this like hero that we, that we count on to, to swoop in and save the day. Like, what if you, the truth of your brain on alcohol, like you are physically poisoning your nervous system. Yes. You are slowing your reactions down and you are lowering your dopamine, so you won’t be as happy as you would, you will sleep, you know, oh, 42% worth, and by the way, it increases your risk of breast cancer and seven other kinds of cancer by X, Y, Z.

[00:35:00]

Like, and, and like your decision making is out the window. Oh yeah. Like your impulse control is, is not there. And so, any decisions, any, any plan you had for how you were going to drink as soon as alcohol hit hits your lips, your plan, alcohol takes over you guys, alcohol doesn’t give a fuck about the plan you made to moderate and to like No, it’s, it doesn’t, it’s not, it’s just not a user error kind of thing.

It’s working how it’s supposed to work. Yeah. And I mean, it is the idea looking back that like you’re going to consume 5 drinks of this substance, which is enough to put you in a full blackout. Yeah. But if you just drink a glass of water in between, like, like that’s right. Like, well if I could just remember to drink that water, that was it.

You guys also, the, the blood alcohol content thing. Really, I really kind of went deep on that when I was researching it because when you think about being blacked out, and, and I talk about blackouts a lot. because like you, Casey, I was a blackout drinker like in college in my twenties. Hashtag winning.

 

[00:36:00]

Yeah. Hashtag blackout drinker. And you don’t think about like what’s actually happening in your body at each blood alcohol content level. Like when you are blacked out and when you are at a level where you know, if you get hurt, you can’t feel it. That is a level of like surgical amnesia. That is a level that.

 

They could perform surgery on you and you would not feel it like that. Just that should terrify us. That’s in, that’s, yeah. And I’ve been there, I’ve been at that lot. Oh my God. When you wake up and you have huge bruises or you fell down scared, you have like, and you have no recollection of it, that means you didn’t feel it.

That means you, you were anesthetized. Like, that’s crazy. And that’s not us, you guys. That’s alcohol. That is all alcohol right there on the spotlight. Yeah. Yeah. And yet we’re like, this is innocuous. You know, as long as you drink enough water and eat extra bread, you’re cool.

[00:37:00]

Yeah. And it’s like, now I, now I’m going to puke. Which puking is your body’s last resort that was like our bodies being like, I’m trying to save your life right now. because this poison’s going to kill us. So yeah, all systems are stopped and we are just going to focus on expelling this poison.

Like Yeah. Yes. By the way, then we’re like, I’ll drink for another two decades. Oh yeah. Oh, I didn’t, no, no, no. I didn’t know any of it. I was like, yep, puke and rally baby. Oh my God.

Yeah, the other thing about precious memories, we talked about the things that should have been incredibly special that we literally just don’t remember and don’t ask me about how many New Year’s Eve. Yeah. But I am super grateful that I did not get crazy drunk at my actual wedding and wedding reception.

[00:38:00]

But do you know why that was? Why? It’s because I was a red white girl and I always like spilled it and I was wearing a white dress, so it was like, it wasn’t like, I want to remember this night forever. It was like, oh dude, I really don’t want to get a red wine stain on my wedding dress, so I better like, chill the fuck out.

Yes. Okay. I feel like we need to have like a wedding episode because this is a thing and, and I, I got drunk the. Before my wedding, which was worse. Like I didn’t get drunk at my wedding because the night before, all the pictures, right? Yes. The night before all the pictures. because everyone was there and I was like, oh my God, this is such a great party.

Right? And getting drunk the night before my wedding and then I wake up like feeling like shit, right? And I’m like, you know, in like a shame spiral the day of my wedding. Which should have been like, you feel awful. Yes. And like embarrassment, like, what did I do the night before? Yes. Like, oh my God, how, and like, how could I let this happen?

This is, you know, this is a, the biggest day of my life. Like what? And yeah.

[00:39:00]

And now I look at the pictures and I got it together. I got a little glam squad help, but still, I’m like, dude, really? Dude, I’ve seen your pictures. You look absolutely gorgeous. But that again, is like the yes. What you show on the outside does not reflect how you feel on the inside because everybody’s like, exactly like, oh my God, that was so fun. Yes. And then you’re just like, no, I’m actually dying inside right now. And, and beating myself up, right? Like, yes.

Oh. You’re not being honest. So, you don’t connect because you’re essentially not being honest with the person you’re marrying. Your bridesmaids, your best friends. Yeah. Like you’re lying to them on the day. You should feel closest to them. Yes. It’s so funny because my mom didn’t know until a couple of years ago and we, it came up on one of the cafe calls and I, I shared that and she was like, oh, I’ve always wondered why you were like in such a bad mood that morning and like short and snippy.

[00:40:00]

I’m like, yeah. because I was like in a full on fucking hungover. Shame spiral. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And that’s just one example. I have been hung over for every job interview I’ve ever gone to, every performance review, I mean, vaguely or whatever. Yeah. And we just are like, I’m going to keep going with this shit.

Totally. Like, this is good. Well, we just, I just, yeah. I didn’t quit drinking for another Yeah. Six years after that. Because I just, I just was like, well, obviously I did that wrong. And there’s a right way to use your error. Use your error. Yeah. Use your error or use your error. Try again. Like, and the thing is like, I could have spent my whole life just trying to be a better drinker.

Like, I, I, like, there were probably 10,000 reasons why I didn’t quote unquote, “need to quit drinking the morning”. I did.

 

[00:41:00]

And there was, but there was one reason, there was one reason that I did, and it’s the, it was just the little voice saying like, you’re done. You’re done. Yeah. That was it. And I was like, holy.

I love that. Yeah. Like that was it your little voice was that My little voice was waking up at 3:00 AM and literally thinking I can’t do this to myself anymore. Mm-hmm. That was the sentence. Yes. That made me actually reach out to a coach and reach out for help and sign up for something. Yes. Yeah. How powerful is that?

Like in, in the 3:00 AM wake up, right? When like the rest of the world is quiet and like I’ve had a million of those. That little voice was finally like, I can’t do this to myself anymore. And what a loving way to be like. because what you were saying is like, you deserve so much more than this. Yes. Like, we can love ourselves so much better than this and you deserve more like, and you deserve so much more.

[00:42:00]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so part of your book that I, that I had on my list of things we needed to talk about and you just, you just introed it perfectly, is you talk about your inner voice and knowing, but then you talk about. What we all do, which is essentially surveying everyone in our lives to say, do you think I should stop drinking?

Yeah. And seeking permission from others to make the change that you deepen your heart know because you are afraid to do it, or you want them to approve of it, or you want them to convince you that your inner voice is wrong. Yes. So you write about asking your friends or partner, like, do you think I should stop drinking?

And also your girlfriends like, I’m kind of tired about drinking, of drinking. Should I just quit? And then your friends say everything in moderation. Quitting is so drastic, just cut back. It’s not like you’re an alcoholic. Yeah. What are they going to say? Right?

 

[00:43:00]

Like, is your husband going to be like. Yeah, you should.

And they don’t know what’s going on in you. No. In your own mind and heart. That’s the thing. Like we’re that whole situation where we kind of survey and see how, what everybody else thinks about if I’m should drink, if I should quit drinking, what, what I should do about something very, very personal that we’ve been taught not to talk about, not to share our inner most doubts and our shame about our drinking.

 

And so, it’s kind of a situation like if you are not going to catch them up to where you are. Right. Let me, let me start, you know, from the beginning and catch you up to all of the things that I have never shared with you about the shame, about the panic, about the dread, about the doubts, about the mental gymnastics and all of this stuff that we just silently do if you are not going to sit them down and catch them up.

[00:44:00]

Then they don’t get a say because they have 1% of the information that you have and the percent that they have is like, looks pretty good because it’s from the outside, right? And it’s like, yeah, you, you’re fine. Also, there’s so much wrapped up in, when we don’t talk about our relationship with alcohol, they’re not talking about theirs either.

And so they are bringing with that, with your, to your question, they’re bringing their feelings and doubts and fears. And if you quit drinking, does that mean they have to? Right. Because they’re still looking at it like something that they’re going to lose instead of gain and they’re not ready. It’s just such a personal thing.

 

And I, I think it’s probably one of the most badass things that a woman can do is to say like, no, it’s okay if you don’t understand. This isn’t for you. This is for me and I don’t need information. Yeah. And understand in that with strength. Yes. Yes.

[00:45:00]

Even when they make the stupid little comments of like, yes.

Oh, I’m so glad you’re going to drink again. Now we can have fun. Like those crappy, shitty, like. No. Separately when you’re talking about like asking your spouse or your friends for permission, you just talked about that, right? You’re asking your husband, do you think I should stop drinking? And like even your spouse doesn’t know the ship, right?

Totally. Your husband didn’t know you were hungover and in ashamed spiral on your wedding day. No. Does he want him to know? Totally. because I, when we can’t even admit it to ourselves to say like, I couldn’t admit to even to myself how I felt about my relationship with alcohol until I was done drinking.

Yeah. Until I was ready to like say, okay, it’s a decision that we make that it’s like, okay, no more covering up, no more excusing it. Let’s look at it. So I’m definitely not going to let anybody else in because what if they

[00:46:00]

I don’t know, call me an alcoholic or send me to rehab. Like, are you kidding me? Right?

Like, no, we’re not going to do that. And so, it’s just such a personal thing to kind of hand it over to somebody else and, and, and let them even just to let their thoughts or opinions about it in it’s too. Yeah, it’s just too sacred. It’s too precious and you, you don’t need, and it’s an you don’t of validating your drinking. Yeah. Like if you had said to your friends, and I’m thinking for me, instead of, do you think I should stop drinking? And you had actually said to them, I was brutally hung over this morning, I felt like shit all day. I’m sitting at a restaurant with you and I’m only partially concentrating on what you’re saying because I’m half distracted worrying about my drinking and half trying to catch the waitress’s eye so she can bring me another glass of wine because I’m pissed off. She hasn’t offered yet, and I’m going to go home and open another bottle of wine.

[00:47:00]

Right. Do you think I should stop drinking? You know? Yes. Exactly. Like that. That is like, if we’re going to, if we’re going to ask them, then give them all of the information, but we’re not going to do that. Right?

We’re just, yeah. We’re just like, yeah. Yeah. It’s just, it, it, it’s, it’s putting something that, you know, and I think as women, we just, we think that our voice isn’t enough. And our feelings aren’t enough. And our inner knowing, they’re, they’re not enough. Like we need validation. It’s like, no, no, no, no. Yeah.

You don’t need permission. You don’t need people to understand it’s, it’s okay if they don’t. Yeah.

Yeah. And that’s what I love in the book. So, separately listening again, please go grab this book because it’s really good, the sober shift, because Suzanne has a section, right? She shares her stories and the stories of people she’s talked to.

 

[00:48:00]

And then she says, now it’s your turn. Mm-hmm. And gives you prompts and questions that you don’t have to tell your best friend or your spouse or whatever, but asks you questions like the ones we’re talking about, like. What have you missed out on because of alcohol?

Yeah. How does it really make you feel? How do you feel when you have the idea that you can’t drink? Like all that shit that you’re never going to tell other people, but it prompts you and gives you permission to look at it? And we have do that in order to decide that. We can’t keep doing this to ourselves anymore.

Whatever your voice is going to say. So, you may not be ready to stop now. You may be early sober curious. You may be just listening to this. For the hell of it, I doubt it. If you’re listening to this and I love you, there is probably a little voice saying something, but you deserve. To look at it objectively because you’re here.

 

[00:49:00]

So, grab the book and just journal. Nobody has to see it. You can burn it afterwards. Yes, you can throw it out or shred it, but give yourself the opportunity to just be honest, even with yourself. It does not mean you have to stop drinking tomorrow. No, it’s just, and I really wanted it to feel like this kind of interaction between the reader and me.

Like, I’m actually holding your hand through this thing and you know, saying like, you’re not alone in this. I’m here. I’m not going to judge you or shame you. That’s not allowed here. There’s no shame here and we’re just going to write this stuff down.

And you don’t have to share it. You don’t have to. Yeah.

It’s just for you and for you to validate all of this stuff that has been inside. And I call it like mold in the basement, right? It’s been inside. Yeah. It’s time to kind of just shine the light and get it out and then, yeah. That doesn’t mean today you have to quit drinking.

 

[00:50:00]

It’s just a way that you’re getting to know yourself and then finally starting to tell the truth about your relationship with alcohol.

 

Yeah. I love that you said mold in the basement because we are homeowners and everybody knows that water damage is your worst nightmare.

Yes. because it’s not obvious, but it’s insidious. And mold will make you physically ill. But it takes time to grow. Yes. And to get rid of it, you have to knock shit down and take it down to the studs.

It’s the perfect analogy and I’d never thought of it before. So good job. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it totally is right. And, and it’s, that’s, that’s what that is. The, it’s emotional mold in the basement and it’s at play. That’s the thing. We can, we can stuff down our feelings about alcohol, our doubts, all of our past stories, all of our shame.

 

We can stuff it down, but it’s still at play and it’s still festering in those spores. So yeah, it’s, it’s time to shed a light and it’s not going to. It’s just not going to take you down. Like you, you can look at it, it grows over time.

[00:51:00]

In college, it might not have been that big deal, but you amplify that damage day in and day out or week in or month in, day out, over a decade.

Like that mold is there. That mold is there, and the house on top of it is probably filled with people you love. There’s more to lose in that house and so yeah. It’s time. Yeah. Okay. We mentioned, you know, if someone’s listening to this and they’re not.

Sure they want to do X, Y, Z, which is totally cool, but at least give yourself the chance to be honest with yourself and look at it clearly and objectively so you have the full picture of the decision you’re making.

Yeah. You talk in chapter 10 about how focusing on for can feel really overwhelming and why staying present is so much more powerful.

So why is it important for women in the early days, or even considering this, to shift their mindset away from forever and into today?

 

[00:52:00]

I think forever can really trip us up. Even, even before we get started. I think we, we have this notion that we have to know this answer like, well, are you done forever?

When we, anytime, my mind kind of went to like, is this forever? It is. In sobriety, I’ve been able to, it’s a mindful practice to be like, no, not right now, or like, that’s not something I’m going to answer right now. Like, it’s a, it is a literal shift of your thoughts, right? I think the important thing about when we’re thinking about forever is to notice it as fear, right?

 

Because this is, this is a scary thing. If alcohol has been in our lives since we’re 14, 15, 16, 17, and now we’re in our forties, our thirties, fifties, whatever, like this is new. This is scary. Is it exciting? Yes. It’s that too, but it’s, it’s scary.

[00:53:00]

And so, in early sobriety, when you, when you find yourself kind of questioning, was I that bad or is this forever?

I think, and I’ve found that the answer is a heaping dose of compassion for yourself. Yeah. To be able to say, I know you’re scared. I know we’re scared. I know. This is scary. Keep going. Right.

There’s a mantra that I had in early sobriety and it still do. It’s, keep going. It’s just, okay, just keep going. It’s easier to keep going than it is to start again.

Can you start again? Yes. Oh God, yes. But like that momentum, it is just easier to keep going and so keep going forever will take care of itself. Like you just don’t ever, you don’t Oh you that out right now. Yeah. You don’t ever have to figure out forever.

Yeah. You will get to a point. You know, and that’s what this book walks you through is it’s getting you to a point where you just can’t imagine going back. And the idea of forever is not scary.

 

[00:54:00]

Like the idea of me. Never drinking again. Is exhilarating. Exhilarating. It’s not, it, the idea of alcohol coming back in is what would terrify me, right.

 

Of being like, if someone’s like, you have to drink again, I’d be like, no, I don’t want to. And so forever won’t always feel scary and it won’t always feel like this kind of boogeyman, you know, waiting. Yeah. In the meantime, you just really do figure out, you know, the truth about alcohol, how you were using it, and, and then you build, and, and that’s what this book does is it walks you through the tearing down, and then we kind of build together.

 

You talked about, your phrase, keep going, just keep going you said. It’s actually easier to keep going than to start again. Yeah. And a phrase that I love is choose your hard, because in sobriety sometimes it’s hard. Going to your first girls weekend is hard.

[00:55:00]

And we can talk about sober first, because I want to talk about that too. Your first sober vacation is hard. Yeah. But. It’s also hard to wake up hungover every day. It’s also hard to not remember conversations with your spouse and to pretend that you did. It’s also hard to try to start again and to keep giving up on yourself.

So, choose your hard because sobriety gets a hell of a lot easier and better, and drinking gets a hell of a lot worse and harder. Yes, so choose your heart man. Neither one is easy. One gets easier. Yes. And that’s the thing. One gets easier, one leads to freedom, and one is a huge fucking cage. I have like the middle chapters, these like takeaways, these quick, if you need reminders, it’s like 10 things for sobriety.

Just so that you can just look at it if you’re, you know, going on your first sober vacation so that you can just find these things quickly. And one is addiction is progressive, but so is sobriety, right?

[00:56:00]

And we think, you know, we hear like addiction is progressive.

Yes, it’s going to get worse. You drink alcohol. The more you drink it, the more you want it until you need it. And we know these things, but it’s not often talked about how progressive and that it’s, it’s not the, how you feel in early sobriety is not how you’re going to feel. At a year, at two years, at three years, all of these tools and the things that you’re building are getting you to this place of freedom from alcohol.

And so I, I always think that that’s really important to remember and yeah, the choose your hard thing. Early sobriety is hard, right? Feeling our feelings when we literally don’t know how to feel. If alcohol’s been in your life on a consistent basis, you might not know how to feel. You got to go to feelings class.

 

[00:57:00]

There aren’t those, but that’s kind of what this book is, right? And like, yeah, you have to teach  yourself that, that you’re able to feel that the feelings aren’t going to take you down. And, and yeah, that gets, that gets easier. That just gets easier and easier. It’s, it’s a, it’s a life skill that we have. Yeah.

And you also talk about what you gain in sobriety, which I think is something that people don’t think about enough. You wrote a big list, which is awesome, but confidence. Mm-hmm. So much more confident in sobriety. Yeah. You don’t realize how much drinking makes you doubt yourself and feel negative.

 

[00:58:00]

You talk about more peace, more meaningful connections, time, creativity. You gain so much in sobriety. It’s, it’s worth it. Yes. Oh my God. And I think it’s so true what you said, like you don’t even realize, I think, you know. What alcohol is kind of muting in you and, and what it’s, what it’s getting in the way of, because you know it, I was like, yeah, two or three glasses of wine, like that’s not doing anything.

 

Right. It is. Yeah. It’s, it’s doing a lot. Even just the confidence of, you know, yeah. You and your husband get in a fight and you kind of don’t remember. That’s a shitty feeling. Right. And, and you’re, you’re discounting your feelings then in the morning, like, oh, I think I was just drunk. And so, I don’t know.

Even if you had a good point, you’re discounting them because you can’t remember, you can’t, you can’t stand on any of your feelings and in sobriety, knowing how you feel, and then what you need you guys, there’s nothing that builds confidence more of being like, oh, you know what, actually this is how I feel.

My feelings do matter and now this is what I need. Like, that is the most badass thing a woman can say. Yeah.

 

[00:59:00]

Yeah. So, one of the things you encourage women to do is to count their sober first mm-hmm. Instead of their sober days. And I love that. So, why does that change the way you experience sobriety?

 

So,  I became laser focused on these sober firsts and really like, okay, let me look at this calendar that I have. And I have, you know, my friend’s 40th birthday party. Okay. I’ve never done one of those sober.

Let’s put that on a list. I have, our sober vacation was like two and a half or three weeks after I quit drinking. All right, I’ve never done that. So let’s put that on a list. So it, it came more like out of curiosity of like. Okay. Maybe I’m going to experience this thing sober for the first time and then, let’s see, because I’ve experienced it drinking, and so the sober first, those started to propel me. And then I got excited of being like, Ooh, what else? Like, what other sober first can I do?

 

[01:00:00]

I’m still knocking off sober first. I don’t have the list anymore. It’s more just like a mental list of being like writing a book and going on a book tour. Like that’s sober, right?

 

Yeah. Speaking in front of however many people are going to be there. Like, okay, sober first. Yeah, like the sober first. Don’t stop. Which I think is exhilarating. Yeah. To be 45 years old and still experiencing new things that I, I’ve never experienced being present for, you know that. That’s a great feeling and it feels like, okay, I can look back and be like, yeah, I lived. I lived this, like, I experience there and I get to experience this in a new way. I always am like, you know what drinking looks like, you know, the good and the bad, the highlights and the low lights.

Aren’t you curious what a sober vacation feel like? Aren’t you curious what New Year’s Day without a hangover might feel like? Aren’t you curious what sex with your husband without any alcohol in your system might so much better?

 

[01:01:00]

So much like, like so much better. Yeah. You deserve to know. Yes.

Yes. And if we’re talking, yes, if we’re going to talk about like we’re going to give alcohol to the credit and us, none of it, well give us a chance. You know, like, gimme a chance to see what I could do in the bed with my husband. And you guys are so much better. It’s so much better. It is better. By the way, guys.

It might be, again, sober first are uncomfortable, but , you can’t feel shit when you’re drunk. Like that’s part of what it does. Yes. You’re like numb. Why you can freaking fall down the stairs and not remember it. Like how are you going to feel in sex? Even if you have half of that in your system, you’re not feeling shit.

No. If you can’t feel a bump on the knee, your vagina’s not feeling shit if you’re drunk. So yeah, you could, in sobriety you could feel it. Yeah. Wait, Casey, do you think this is the first time anyone says vagina on your podcast? No, probably not. I seriously doubt it because I’ve done stuff about sober sex and menopause. Get it. Menopause, yeah.

 

[01:02:00]

You get into, although you, pun, pun intended, I get really No, you get real into it. I, I don’t like talking about sex that much, but, you know, definitely get, okay.

That makes me, I know, I know you did start, you did start you’re, you’re kind of like swaying a little bit. You’re a little wait. You don’t like, you, you don’t like talking about it. About that? Well, I don’t know. I mean, on the other hand, I tell everyone the spicy books I read , so , maybe I like talking about just about other people.

What are these spicy, books? You don’t want to I don’t want to say it because people are going to judge me, yada, yada, yada, judge. Okay. Well, you got to tell me. because I’ve read some of those and I’m like, honey, what are you doing? Like, that’s a good way to be. Yeah.

It’s like, you know, like in friends, like the vicar won’t be home for hours. Remember Rachel’s? Yeah. Like sexy book. Yeah. Yeah. That’s good. Yeah. Okay. I’ll tell you offline. Okay. Okay, good. Send me, send me a link. Yeah. So, what was I going to, yeah, I’m thinking about spicy sex. How, oh, vagina.

[01:03:00]

Oh, God has nothing to do with Suzanne’s book. Okay. No feedback. Yeah. What if we’re like, you guys, there’s a lot of sex in my book, so get it. And I’m like, there’s no absolute any sex. Okay. We’re going to, we’re going to pull it back. Okay. Pun intended.

Okay. Moving on. Okay. Jesus Christ. Oh God. More of the woman who’s listening to this and is quietly questioning her drinking. Seriously, I have trouble going back. I know you’re like so flustered. You guys, I’m like turning red here. Okay. Moving is blushing. Okay. Okay. What do you want her to take away from this? I can’t even wrap it up for me.

 

Oh my God, I’ve never seen you so flustered. Oh, I love it. Okay. Okay. Okay. What do, what do I want her to take away?

[01:04:00]

Okay. I want, I want her to take away that she’s not alone like that. She’s not the only one because we’ve been taught not to talk about our relationship with alcohol, which means we think we’re the only ones struggling, and I want her to know she’s not alone and that it’s so much better and brighter on the other side of alcohol, and that she’s strong enough to feel her feelings.

 

All of them. Yeah. I love that. That’s perfect. Okay. Tell us about you, how people can find you, connect with you.

Okay. Get their copy of the book, all the things. Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, you can find me on Instagram @suzannewayre and all of the things. Just go to suzannewayre.com and then that’s where you can find yeah, you could pre-order the book there or order the book. It’s in all forms. It’s, it’s hardcover, it’s Kindle, it’s audio. I recorded the audio, which was a whole experience.

[01:05:00]

And so, yeah, you can get the book and then, and then come and see Casey and me in Seattle on the 28th of October. Oh, that would be amazing. I’m so excited.

‘m so excited. Yeah. And tell people where else you’re going on book tours.

In case you’re not in the Seattle area, I am going to, so on Pub day on September 30th, I’ll be at the book stall in Winnetka on the north shore of Chicago because that’s where I live. And then, I’m in Indianapolis. I’m in Madison. I have conversation partners everywhere.

They’re all on the events page on my website. I am in Boston with Gill on the 14th and then, I’m in Santa Monica on the 20th, Portland on the 22nd, and then Seattle on the 28th. Yeah, I think I got all you guys and the people you’re talking to are incredible. Like, you’re talking with Laura Cathcart Robbins, in California and Santa Monica who wrote the book Stash. You’re talking to Emily Paulson? Yeah. Who wrote, Highlight Real. She used to be the head of Sober Mom Squad, so you’re talking to really incredible people.

[01:06:00]

So, come out for Suzanne, but also come out to see these other really cool women you’re going to love.

Yes. Saying hi to in person. It’s kind of like my dream. I was like, who do I just want to hang out with for a night? And then, have other women come so that you guys could hang out with us, too. And then, it’s a real treat because my best friend of 44 years, I’m talking to Katie, to Kate Olson in Madison, which will be like a homecoming. Like that. Your best friend of 44 years.

So, you met her when you were like, what? 1-year-old. I was. Okay. So I was 6 months and she was 3 months. So more than 44 years. Like 45. Yeah. because she’s almost 45.

Yeah. because our moms were best friends and then, so we were just always together and then our best friendship outlasted theirs and like, we just became like sisters, you know?

So, she was with you through all this crap. All, everything there’s not a thing that Katie wasn’t.

[01:07:00]

Yeah. And we both, yeah, she’s in the book more than my brother is. Which he was like, dude, Katie’s in the book more than I am. I’m like, yeah. Well, she was here. She stopped drinking. She drank with her way more than you.

Yeah, exactly.

Like, she or with you stories. But she quit drinking 3 months before I did, and we didn’t talk about it.

No way. Yeah. Oh my God.

Yeah. Oh my God. Okay. That was the last thing I wanted to mention because it came to me when I was reading your book that we go to everyone seeking permission. I’m thinking about your friends.

 

Yeah. To seeking permission for them to tell us that it’s okay to stop drinking and if they are still drinking, they will almost never do that. Right. I hung out with a bunch of big drinkers, but think about it this way. When you stop drinking or take a break for a longer period of time and show them that you actually do feel better and that you’re happier and that you can feel your feelings and that sober sex is better, and vacations alcohol-free are pretty amazing.

 

[01:08:00]

You are giving them permission to also take a look at their drinking and try something else. So I had a group of like 12 girlfriends. We would go, you know, take a weekend kayak, camping away from our families, away from our babies every single year. We called ourselves the village. We drank just boxes of wine camping, like bladders, wine, like blackout, you name it.

Yeah. I stopped drinking. Another friend of mine stopped drinking at the same time. We didn’t talk about it again for months. Like our two friends in the group were like you, Holly stopped drinking. You know, Casey stopped drinking. Since then, 4 of us in the group of 12 have gone sober and that’s amazing.

 

The other 8, were not big drinkers. They were only like blackout binge drinkers that one weekend of the year, as opposed to the rest of us who are huge. Yeah. But like 4 out of 12, you’re giving other people permission to be like, oh, I don’t have to throw up.

 

[01:09:00]

Yes. You know? Yes. You could be the one, like you could be the influence.

We’re, we all are the influencers of like our home, our family, our friends. That’s the thing. Like my, since I quit drinking, my brother quit. My mom quit. Wow. And my husband quit.

No way. That’s insane.

It’s all kind of like, I consider them like my sober shift guinea pigs, you know? Yeah. And I was like, okay, I think I think this, yeah. This is, this is good.

 

So, yeah. Yeah. We’re the influence guys. You, it starts with that. Okay. Don’t ask other people for permission. Do what? The voice, the little voice inside you says it’s right. Take the first couple steps and a lot of them will come along because yes, if you are drinking like crazy with your girlfriends, you don’t have to talk about it.

They are waking up at 3:00 AM. Yes. They are feeling ill. They are worrying. They’re in a shame spiral occasionally.

[01:10:00]

Like, you guys just don’t talk about it. So, you take the first step and you will, they’ll come along. Yes. That’s right. No, it’s so true. Like you can be, you can be the one, yeah. We could talk for hours and we have, I know.

Okay. I don’t want this to go on too long, so I will just say thank you. Thank you, thank you. Oh, my good friend, my Casey. Thank you. I love you so much and I can’t wait to hug you in person soon.

I know. I can’t wait either. I can’t wait for us to go out to dinner and chat and do all the things. Yay.