Does Alcohol Help You Sleep? + How To Sleep Well In Sobriety with Terry Cralle

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, drink, bed, night, bedroom, feel, waking, asleep, life, alcohol, problem, medications, work, rested, early, talk, kids, exercise, called

Sleep

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Terry Cralle

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a buzz, how to sit with your emotions when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Hi there. I’m excited for this episode. Because it’s on a topic I get asked about all the time, we are going to talk about sleep. My guest is Terry Cralle. She’s a Registered Nurse and a Certified Clinical Sleep Educator, a nationally recognized sleep clinician certified in clinical sleep health and health care quality. Terry is the co-author of two books on sleep, Sleeping Your Way to the Top: How to Get the Sleep You Need to Succeed, and Snoozy and the Great Big Bedtime Battle. I’m really excited to talk with Terry to help you, if you’re drinking to help you sleep or if you believe that helps you go to sleep, or if you’re an early sobriety and struggling with sleep, or further along and just want to optimize your sleep and get a better sleep routine for better health.

 

So, Terry, welcome. I’m so glad you’re here.

 

02:24

It’s a pleasure to be with you today. Casey, I look forward to talking with you about sleep my favorite subject.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  02:32

Yeah, absolutely. So, tell me about what are the keys to better sleep. And maybe we should start with what are the misconceptions that people have about alcohol and how it might help them sleep.

 

02:49

Right. And that’s a great place to start because there are a lot of misconceptions in that sort of context. And they’re also, in fact, I’ll back up, one step behind that. And say, there are a lot of people that have a bad, very bad attitude about sleep in general. You know, a disregard for sleep. Looking, viewing sleep and sleep requirements as sort of a weakness, or a vulnerability, a lack of ambition, lack of the work ethic. And that’s a huge problem.

 

A lot of people that I encounter and, in our country, based on statistics about the number of people that don’t get enough sleep every night, people generally don’t have a good relationship with sleep, but they don’t have a good attitude about it. Hence the poor relationship. They just think it’s, you know, a thing that they have to do. They do it grudgingly. They don’t understand the benefits. And as well, they don’t understand the consequences of not getting enough. So, if you pair that bad attitude with someone who has been drinking and has been drinking, to help them fall asleep, we’ve got some problems. So, let’s dive into that a little bit.

 

You know, it’s there’s a vicious cycle that will ensue when people drink before bedtime, typically, or historically, traditionally called a nightcap. They think it helps them fall asleep. And this is a huge problem, because if it really doesn’t drink before, that can make a lot of people sleepy, but it will absolutely that alcohol that’s ingested will wreak havoc on your sleep for the rest of the night. So, it’s interfering with your sleep, it’s causing numerous awakenings. It’s really messing up your sleep cycles. And it usually causes early morning awakenings so then you’ve got a person who’s not getting enough sleep because of their alcohol ingestion, at night and before bed or let’s just say in the evening. So that person is going to manifest all of the difficulties associated with not enough sleep during that day. They’re going to be stressed out. We know that lack of sleep leads to stress. They’re going to be cranky, irritable, tired, a lot of them will consume caffeine all day, eat junk food all day, just do anything to stay alert and awake. And all of those daytime habits lead to one problem – falling asleep at night. So, these people in this population are self-medicating with alcohol. And we have to absolutely stop doing that. Because it’s just setting the stage for a long term problem that can be alleviated.

 

If we just do a few strategies and understand that it won’t help, that will hurt sleep. And that definitely, if we are more protective about sleep, have a better attitude about it and realize how it can change our lives and reduce cravings or need for alcohol or a dependence on alcohol. When you’re well rested, you’re happier, you’re healthier, you’re less stressed out, you make better decisions, you’re more productive, you have better relationships. I mean, all of those things occur when you get plenty of sleep. And I just don’t think there are enough people that understand that, therefore, making sleep sufficient sleep a top priority in their day to day lives. Yeah.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  06:14

And I want to talk about all of those benefits. I have to say, things that I’ve heard from people on friends with, one of the things about going to bed early, is there’s sort of this perception that you almost need to apologize for it. Like I have a girlfriend, I go walking with her once a week at 6am. And we always message each other before bed, there’s a group of us like confirming so we don’t drive somewhere, and nobody shows up. And she’s like, Yeah, I’m 80 years old, I’m going to bed at 8:30. And, you know, there’s almost this idea that you’re super boring or super lame if you go to bed early. And also, I know with my husband, I go to bed at like 10. And I feel like or maybe he feels like I’m ignoring him, right? Because you see each other in the morning when everybody’s super busy. And then you get the kids to bed. I have two kids by my kids go to bed at 10. So, I kind of go to bed when they do. And so, he’s alone in the evenings. And it’s only on the weekends that I stay up with him. So, there are these social ideas that you’re boring. If you go to bed too early. Do you hear that as well?

 

07:34

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, and see we on that on some level, we equate that with, you know, or not, not doing enough not being enough not producing enough not performing? Well. We I mean, again, it’s looked as an act as a negative viewed as a negative, when really, it’s just, I mean, I think all the research now points to it is the most important health habit to get into because we’ve learned that diet and exercise, follow, you know, you have to have that foundation of sleep, diet and exercise are really built upon that. So, we’ve been looking at it all wrong. And I think we’re going to start holding up people to a higher regard that protect their sleep, care about their sleep, it’s a very responsible thing to do. I mean, just like eating healthy, you know, getting exercise, just, you know, doing all the things we’ve been told to do for the optimal health and performance.

 

Yeah. Again, that sleeps been left out of the equation. So, I think we’re going to start saying, Oh, well, you get so much done because you sleep, not because you don’t sleep. And you know, so many people, who’ve been in my seminars, workshops, and they’ll say, well, I need to get more done. So, I’m going to trade my sleep hours for more waking hours.

 

Yeah. And you know, it’s very hard to explain to people or sell people on this idea that you’re going to get more done and do it better when you’re well rested. And that’s conceptually vicious, I think hard for a lot of people. I have to tell you about a seminar. I was on the West Coast. I was in California, talking about the need for teenagers to get plenty of sleep, you know, most teenagers need about 9.25 hours a night. And how many do you know that get that amount?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  09:23

We actually had to, just now. I have a 14 year old son, he’s a freshman in high school. And you know, he is currently in the middle of playing basketball and baseball. And so plus homework, and we got a note from his Bio-Chem teacher that she was concerned about his health.

 

Yeah, because he was falling asleep in class he was and she’s like, and sometimes even when I wake him up, he falls back to sleep. He used to you know, in the fall he had all this energy. And first of all, my husband is the head of the Middle School in high school. So, he’s like, You’re killing me kid. But also, we were like, have you know that, that parent thing? Or we’re like, yeah, it seems like you’re not getting enough sleep. And what we’re going to do is set an alarm and you’re going to turn in your phone in your computer at 10pm until we hear that you are bright eyed and bushy tailed, during all your classes. And he was like, Oh, yeah, no.

 

10:28

Exactly. But it’s a common problem. And it’s a serious issue in a lot of school start times are very early. But this mother of a teenager was sitting in the front row of my seminar, and she said, you know, she said to her, I’m going to be real. I mean, she’s saying, let’s be realistic. My son does six hours of homework every night, because I want him to go to an Ivy League school. And, you know, I said, okay, and I said, how many hours of sleep does he get? And she said, six, maybe seven every night. And that’s when you have to push back and say, Look, he could probably do the same amount of homework and study in a lot less time. If he’s well rested. I mean, all these brain functions are so impacted by our sleep, whether we have enough or not enough, I mean, decision making problem solving, just clarity of thought, ability to focus, Outlook, you know, kind of a can do attitude, we could tackle that problem, we could tackle that amount of homework, and then still have energy to do things. So, it’s so central, too.

Yeah, just how we look at life and approach life and interact with everyone and take it all in? Well.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  11:40

Because I know a lot of people seem to this. are, you know, it’s amazing one, when you stop drinking, it takes a while to get back in the habit of falling asleep without it. And obviously, if you’re going through alcohol withdrawal, you tend to have night sweats in the beginning, depending on how much you consume, and really struggle with sleeping in the beginning, a lot of women are so tired, because they’ve been drinking for years and years, that they probably have not had a good night of sleep in years, or at least in months, and therefore they’re exhausted. And yet they’re trying so hard to keep up with their busy lives that like they’re terrified of not sleeping, I know I used to be. But the truth is that when you stop drinking, and when you sleep better, you can have fewer hours working, and you’re going to be so much more clear, have less brain fog, be more energetic, be more productive and relaxed. You don’t even know how that feels unless you do that experiment. And I think the same thing is true for sleep. Yeah, and it’s a…

 

12:54

It’s a process. And I think we’ve got to, you know, change the mindset, I have a very guilty pleasure for reading, I just love to curl up with a book at bedtime. And that’s what I look forward to. It’s relaxing. And another thing we tell people, the sleep professionals don’t try to fall asleep, don’t try to sleep. You know, the whole point is always have a bedtime routine. They’re great for kids, but they’re also great for adults, we’ve got to do something, have that timeframe to transition our minds and bodies from weight to sleep, it’s a transition time. But say one guilty pleasure. And it could be something I’ve had friends taking up crocheting needle point, you just find something that just makes you happy. For me, it’s always reading, but that’s my look forward to thing and it’s so I mean, I say I’m just, I mean the thought process, I’m going to relax, sleep or follow, I’m going to do something pleasant and relaxing.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  13:57

Sleep will fall in. For some, simple. It’s a bath or a shower or putting on essential oils. And I’m sure you’re going to talk to us about all the good stuff we can do. One thing I wanted to mention, it’s my own personal thing that I’m trying to do less is the idea of like, can we stop calling things we enjoy guilty pleasures and just call them? You know what I write? Why do we have to feel guilty for doing things that we enjoy? So, I love that and just say one of my pleasures is reading before but and I don’t feel it right. And I shouldn’t and don’t. I mean, my God, we’re adults, when do we get to like just do things we enjoy? Even if they’re not, you know, somehow being productive or helpful to the family or whatever it is.

 

14:51

Yeah, and maybe that is reflective of our prior traditional, for most people, poor relationship with sleep, because I think we’ve kind of been getting ready for bed, begrudgingly, you know, and just sort of not looking at it as a lovely end to a lovely day and the beginning of a brand new day follows. And I talked to people about write down or make a note of or think three wonderful things that happen to you during the day. Always has to be good.

 

Thanks. We want to get sort of a mindset that is relaxing, and then leads to sleep and good quality sleep. And I know there’s always a problem with mind racing at night. And that’s where I don’t want anyone to reach for alcohol, to sort of try to cancel that out. But there’s so many effective strategies that will reduce or stop completely mind racing. And that is, at the end of the workday, literally, write down a list of things that you know, did that day, or need to do future to do lists, things, I mean, keep everything, you know, do a piece, literally the old fashioned piece of paper, it helps make things look more manageable. And doable, and not so overwhelming. Sometimes, you know, it kind of runs through your brain, but then you’re like, No, I’ve got it on paper, I’ve got three columns. You know, we can do this.

 

And see, that’s another thing you’ve got, when you’re getting that good quality sleep, your daytime functioning, your daytime outlook, your mood, everything is just so much better. And you’re going to feel instead of maybe an evening drink, you’re going to feel more like, going to take a walk thinks that you have. It’s just, it’s so energizing to get that good night’s sleep.

You’re going to actually eat better too. You’re going to choose healthier foods. You don’t have those cravings that typically, sleep deprived people are reaching for every day, that lead them feeling bad and gaining weight. So, the healthy diet contributes to a good night’s sleep. And all of these things are additive and cumulative. And when you’re getting that sleep, your day is, it’s completely different. And I have heard from many people, it’s life changing, when they’ve just they lost their point of reference to a good night’s sleep.

Casey McGuire Davidson 

Hi there. If you’re listening to this episode, and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit.

 

The Sobriety Starter Kit is an online self study sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step by step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one on one coaching. And the sobriety starter kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it. And when it fits into your schedule. You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time.

This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step by step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking, from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better. You’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach, you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course 

Casey McGuire Davidson  17:21

Yeah, like when everybody talks about how sober sleep is the best and you don’t realize how badly you’re sleeping until you get away from it. I know that that here’s something I hear a lot from people like, obviously, a lot of alcohol is bad for your sleep, right?

 

People will say, Yeah, yeah. I know that if I drink a bottle of wine a night, I have the 3:00am wakeups with the racing anxiety, and I can’t fall back to sleep. That is true. But we were talking just before we jumped on, on some of the statistics that people probably are not aware of, which is, you know, if you drink one drink for women a single drink, it will decrease your sleep quality by 24%. And anything over a single drink for women will decrease your sleep quality by 39%. When I saw those numbers, I was stunned.

 

18:24

It’s huge. It’s huge, Casey and think of how that is impacting your entire life, and every aspect of your functioning, not to mention your health. I mean, this is serious stuff isn’t just you know, falling asleep. Using alcohol within one hour of going to bed will reduce your melatonin production by 20%. We need that melatonin to help us fall asleep and stay asleep. And it’s our body’s way of making that happen. And we’re going to reduce the output by 20%. I mean, by taking that drink, it’s just it’s such. I mean, the rewards are just insane. You know, just wonderful.

 

Compared to that, that one drink the risk benefit is what I’m trying to say is yeah, it’s that one drink at night worth all of this just wreaking havoc on your sleep. And when your sleep is disrupted to that degree, your day, your entire day is disrupted to that we talk about the good, healthy, how to improve the quality of your sleep, and then what the benefits of positive sleep are because I think everyone’s like Yeah, yeah, yeah, I need to not I mean, my God, my husband stays up till 12:30 Or 1 in the morning watching TV. And I’m just like, Babe, you got to come to bed earlier but he’s like, this is my only time I get all day to like bed. out. So obviously in my mind, it’s like don’t stay up till midnight watching TV. But what are some of the, the really good sleep hygiene things that people should do?

 

20:11

One of the most important ones is to keep your bedroom as dark as possible. I’ve been surprised. I mean, there’s always surprising things in my line of work. But when I talk to adults, that leaf lights on, I mean, in either in the bedroom, or in the hallway or something. And I’m thinking, Oh, no, no, no, no, just don’t. So, years ago, I’ve been in the field of Sleep Medicine for quite a long time. But one of the first things I did when I started preaching, good sleep habits was I got the blackout curtains in the bedroom. And it was amazing the difference. It’s just feel so well rested in the morning when it’s pitch dark. So, and that’s it. That’s an easy fix, and a quick fix.

 

Now, I always take the sleep masks when I travel, because we just can’t really predict the hotel room kind of situation. And those are much more comfortable now than I mean, I think we were sort of limited options years ago. But there’s all these new brands and styles. And I often get them sent to me to see if they’re good. Yeah, that part of my job I love. But really comfortable ones out there that won’t pinch your hair won’t put pressure on your face. So, if you tried them before and didn’t like them, try them again. I think it’s really important to look at the sleep surface. I’ve talked to people who have had this same mattress for let’s say, 36 years is the record. I was sitting next to a gal on a on a flight to Arizona, and she was telling me she’d been every sleep doctor, every sleep specialist, she couldn’t figure out what’s wrong. And as soon as she found out what I did, she said, let me start telling you and she went over everything. And at the end of her whole story, I said, because she pretty much done a lot. So, I said, How would you match us? And she said 36 years old. And I said, Go get a new one. And she said, email me and see if that didn’t. But and also, it’s sort of in that vein, at every health care provider encounter, talk about sleep with your health care provider address it there.

 

I think people with insomnia is a big, big problem for people that have been drinking and might still be struggling with and when they’ve stopped. We can get control of insomnia. We can help people through cognitive behavioral therapy. And it’s called in short for CBTI dash AI, cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia. It works very effective. You can do it in person with the provider or you can even do it over the internet telehealth. There’s some programs online. It is amazingly

effective. What kind of things are involved in that CBT for sleep? I’m just curious.

 

23:02

Yeah, reframing the way you look at sleep. You know, how you approach it. Obviously, it incorporates good sleep hygiene, the dark room the pool room, the quiet room, what can you do to eliminate outside noise? You know, what is it like noise machine ceiling fan, but really, I think you know, if you kind of look in our homes, we’ve always put a lot of attention time and attention into the kitchen. And then sometimes the bathroom we really have to look at the sleep environment with a new pair of eyes and say look what’s going to really help get the best night’s sleep, no clutter in the bedroom. Clutter is very distracting, keep it serene, and again, that nighttime routine, very important. I think of things like that are so relaxing, super relaxing, yoga meditation. I’ve talked to people Tai Chi in the evening has been a really cool thing. It’s helped a lot of people.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  23:59

You know, it’s one of the first things I did when I when I stopped drinking. Like two months later, I had sort of redone every room in my house except my bedroom. And I think it was possibly you know I did the kids room I chose the blankets and the colors, and everything was super cute. And then my bedroom was just the afterthought right I would like super busy at home busy with the kids drink a bottle of wine go up and fall asleep. And so, when you stopped drinking you need this like safe space this like bubble to retreat to where you are used to all the cues of alcohol. And so, I would go up there after my daughter went to bed and I got myself a new blanket this like gorgeous white faux fur. You know throw I got turquoise bedside lamps. I finally painted the walls white, and I got an essential oil diffuser and I listened to Insight Timer, sleep meditations. It’s a free app before bed, and it was so lovely.

 

25:12

Isn’t it amazing? We love rituals, I mean, and I having that nighttime tea, when I’m unwind before I get to the bedroom, you know that sleep routine should be the steps should lead you to the bedroom, do them in the same order every night. But if it’s been my thing, it’s not a guilty pleasure. It’s my pleasure, good tea, just that’s, you know, and TV a guilty pleasure, right.

 

25:40

And, you know, our bodies like rhythms and, and we have body clocks. And another thing I think is important for your listeners to know is getting consistent bed and wake time, obviously one that allows for sufficient sleep. But you know, try to make that thing don’t vary wildly. I have a lot of, of course, you know, people talk to me about well, they under sleep during the week because they have a hectic work schedule. So, there’s under sleeping during the week and then catch up sleeping on the on the weekend. And our body clocks don’t like that. Craziness. We’d like that consistency. So don’t let it vary too wildly. Don’t hit the snooze alarm.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  26:21

Yeah, and I work with a lot of nurses and doctors who just aren’t able to do that. Right. They’re on call. Yeah, a couple of nights a week are working at crazy hours. I mean, I feel for them.

 

26:34

Yeah, we’ve got to look at things, you know, countermeasures napping, you know, things like that. And I think we have to feel comfortable. And again, as I mentioned, for unapologetic for our need for sleep, you know, when we talk about doctors or nurses are armed, even new mothers don’t drive when you’re tired. I mean, your brain will shut off. It’s called a micro sleep. drowsy driving is as dangerous as drunk driving. That’s how impaired we are when we’re sleep deprived. So, again, it’s a safety thing. And then I tell people, I mean, obviously one of the common things is stress. And I think prior when people reach for alcohol, to help alleviate a stress and deal with stress, there’s a lovely, I don’t know who said this, I think it was someone at Walter Reed, a sleep specialist at Walter Reed Hospital said, sufficient sleep is Kevlar for the mind. Isn’t that cool? I mean, it gets you through things. You can handle stress better, you can handle stressful events, you manage it better, you’re better equipped to handle anything that comes your way. With a you know, a good attitude, good outlook look good, you know, a feeling of optimism.

 

Another thing, it’s fascinating Christopher Barnes has done research into were more ethical, when we’re well rested. I mean, think, think about these implications when it comes to people’s careers. Family life, obviously, our relationships with family members and friends are better when we’re well rested. And are our co-workers. I mean, like I said, it just every single aspect of who you are, and how you do things are impacted by sleep. So, I always say, start with sleep. I mean, even with a new year, right, right.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  28:38

We’re on the heels of that it’s people diet, and exercise is in those raises new year’s resolutions, you’re going to fall off that wagon if you don’t start with sleep, because you need that, not only the energy, one I know that, like, about a year after I stopped drinking.

 

So back in 2017, Arianna Huffington wrote the book, The Sleep revolution, and I feel like I mean, I heard her on various podcasts, it opened up sort of the conversation around how sleep really impacts weight gain and diabetes and heart disease and cancer and Alzheimer’s and all the stuff that we don’t think about in terms of, you know, what the, the sleep deprivation, you know, actually impacts.

 

29:19

Yes, I went to a health fair, I had a gentleman, probably in his early 50s Tell me that he’ll sleep when he’s dead. You know, and it’s always a laugh after that. Right. It’s, I mean, it’s yeah, you know, but it’s very much the prevailing mentality. And I said, Well, you know, that’s just more likely to occur, you know, sooner rather than later in less you listen to my little talk today. So, it’s, it’s sometimes it’s, it’s a, it’s a tall order. And you know, I want to be careful to how I talk to people about sleep, how I start the conversation. I don’t want to shame anyone who’s not doing it, but I think if you get it, you’ll get it. Literally, and fit. You’re lively if you get sleep, you’ll get it. Get off that point of reference. It can take about 30 days I’ve helped people get through 30 Day sleep challenges, where yeah, you know what, second bedtime alarm so you don’t procrastinate going to bed. Get that bedtime alarm going go to sleep on time, allow yourself seven to nine hours average adult somewhere in there, whatever your sweet spot is it’ll vary a little bit, wake up and see how much better you’ll feel and function. And it can take a while because you probably have accrued some sleep debt that needs to be paid off. But and then you’re you’ll see a big change in so many things. It was interesting, we took care of a lady in her late 40s, a patient in our sleep clinic that had severe sleep apnea. So, we got her treated with CPAP. And it was interesting, her first follow up visit her husband was with her and he said thank you for giving me my wife back. And he said she yelled at us. She yelled at the kid. She was short tempered. She didn’t like our job. And he said, I mean, he said it’s just amazing the personality back to how she was before. So, I think there are a lot of things we attribute to things but did not sleep. Like I think we look at it my relationships not good, or I can’t stand my job. Or I keep putting on weight because I’m such and such an age or you know what? All of these things, but in reality, and to be truthful. It’s really about sleep. And I see.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  31:33

Okay, so I’m 47 years old, how much sleep? Am I supposed to be paying 79 hours? Okay?

I’m doing the math. All right, I’m close. And your bento calculators online that are fun to do that time calculators are fun to do with kids too. You know, because that way, you don’t want to be the ogre at night, who says okay, stop everything you’re doing, it’s time to go to bed. Now, we’ve got to really change the way we approach bedtime with kids. So, when they’re adults, they won’t be fighting it. I mean, some adults approach bedtime just like three-year-olds to, you know, they don’t want to it’s me time or they, they do want to watch their shows. They do want to do all of this stuff. Instead of getting asleep, they need to be their best to be their best parent to be their best spouse.

Casey McGuire Davidson  32:22

I think I’m really lucky with my daughter, except on the weekends where I’m like, No, I’m not doing this. So, I stopped drinking when she was two years old. So, I got in the habit of like, instead of putting her to bed and rushing downstairs to like, get back to the couch in my wine, it was sort of my safe stance. So, I’d spend a lot of time rocking her to sleep listening to something on my earbuds, but she had, you know, a really dark room. Because with kids, we do a better job of making the room dark than we do with adults. And we had her sleep machine sound machine that had waves. And I would just stay with her till she fell asleep. So fast forward, you know, seven years, she’s turning nine. I still put her to bed every night and you know, kind of fall asleep with her. So, you know, I think of it as you know, she wants me to scratch her back. We have the cute conversation she reads to me Harry Potter now, which is kind of nice. And then I just like to feel her going to sleep and her breathing. It reminds me of little babies. We used to have this Sleep Sheep that we put in her crib that had like the heartbeat, you know, to make babies feel comfortable. But then of course I wake up and go to my bed at like midnight when my husband comes.

 

33:48

I mean what a great way for her to end. Finish her day. Bedtime is a real special time.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  33:56

And yeah, we always are like God, I feel sorry for college. It’s going to be like, Excuse me? Where’s like, where’s my massage? Where’s my scratch bat? Yeah, they are just I just posted a study in LinkedIn about the college students that wants to get the most sleep, get that get the best grades. It’s so interesting. It’s so interesting, but we just have to keep preaching but with kids. Yeah, I start the conversation early and often. You know, if we can get kids to sort of buy into the tooth brushing thing. I think it’s not too farfetched to get them to sort of buy into this sleep thing when they’re young, because they can have an entirely different trajectory in life. I mean, just think about that better health, better learning, you know, the whole ability to the classroom. Sleep is so important. So, it’s, it’s a we get a lot of work to do.

 

34:52

Yeah, and of course there are lots of challenges right if you have an older child with a room next to a new Baby or a kid who’s waking up in middle the night. I know, lots of women I work with their husbands have sleep apnea or horrible snores. And yet, they either don’t want to go to a separate bedroom because that’s a whole, you know, phase of marriage that some people are like, yikes, I always said I wouldn’t do this, or don’t have another room. Although there was just a study in the New York Times that I read about couples who are sleeping separately and normalized were worked out as Yeah. So, talk to me about that, like what to do. If you do have, you know, disruptions, loud noises, non-peaceful. I mean, I assume your earplugs are, right?

 

35:48

But obviously, you know, if your spouse partner is having any issue, any issue with the legs twitching, just tossing, and turning, can’t fall asleep, stay asleep, frequent awakenings, the breathing issues and snoring. Get them to the sleep doctor. Always. I mean, we always have a lot of questions about well, will insurance cover it? Yes, the insurers know now how important it is. But, you know, get them treated, don’t let them go without treatment. But there are a lot of things we are working to normalize it and to taking away the stigma. Because relationships are much better. When both people are healthy and well rested. I mean, the mental health and sleep connection is pretty amazing. And the more we know, the more we again, prioritize asleep, so but they’re in separate rooms, you know what, my son has a furniture store. And I’ve noticed a big uptick in the adjustable bases that are being sold to put your mattress on, you can put your mattress on the base, and you get the head of the bed up, get it elevate a little bit. And what they have now, you can do two Twin sells. So, a King-sized bed, you can have your head up while your bed partner’s head could be flat, or vice versa. So, you can still sleep together but still have completely different sleep positions, and the ability to get comfortable. But I think it’s, again, take away the stigma of sleeping apart. Because you’re asleep. But we don’t want we don’t want you having less, you know not getting enough sleep because the bed partner is not going to you know has something going on. I mean, we don’t want to.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  37:31

Yeah, I’ll link to that. That article in the show notes because it just came out. And I thought it was really interesting, especially if you look at all the comments underneath of people who are like, yes, my partner and I do sleep apart and have for years. And you know, it’s sort of something that most people don’t talk about. Right, that changes, I hope. I hope that changes.

 

37:58

So yeah, it’s called I Love You, but I don’t want to sleep with you came out six days ago. That was perfect before this. So, we talked about adjusting the light and the noise. What about the temperature in your bedroom?

 

38:13

Yeah, on the cooler side, I think we’ve got you know, keep it cold, the adults. I mean, are you hot sleeper, cold sleeper? I mean, you’re going to they’re going to be a lot of variations. Again, that’s where we get, it’s a tall order to share a bed with someone when you think of all these different things. But I think more and more inroads are being made in the sleep surface with cooling textiles, cooling ingredients that are that are in mattresses in bedding. In your sleep were things that cannot just cool the room or adjust the room temperature or impact it. But things you can wear and sleep on and under. That that will keep you at a comfortable temperature. I know in the winter more so than in the summer, I have to put socks on when my feet are cold. warming your extremities could actually help kind of cool your core which will help you fall asleep. So, socks. Don’t be shy. Don’t put on a pair of warm socks if you’re if your feet are cold because those will keep you up. But I mean anything that you can do to make that room comfortable if you get up in the middle of the night.

 

Another important thing, gosh, this is such a dangerous zone I call it people get up to use the restroom and look at the phone. Ah, so they’re looking at the phone and the next thing you know, it’s like well, who just sent me that message then they look at the message. Oh my God, let me see that comment on social media. Not just the light but the content. And I cannot tell you how many people say Oh, well it was an hour of looking at stuff and then I felt you know I couldn’t fall back to sleep. Well. That light is so disruptive. I have the old fashioned clock in the bedroom. Try not to look at Anything that’s backlit and obviously, you don’t keep your phone in your bed, it’s in my bedroom, but it’s not where I’m going. I’m not going to pick it up. If I get up. I have a small light. You know, I can move safely in the bedroom without picking up that phone because that’s it. That’s where trouble lies. So, you don’t want to do Yeah. avoid that at all. Okay, and if you go, Oh my gosh, my husband actually just started putting on this. I think it’s from Spotify, but this like, I feel like it’s this trippy music, but the kind that like puts you into a trance that I have to think about what it is I’ll find it and put it in the show notes. It sounds like the spa music. But it really works for me. I feel like, I’m just, be lulled into this like, deep place.

 

40:53

Find what works for you. Okay, my friend, his wife loves Keith Morris on Dateline. Have you ever heard him talk? into fall asleep? She listens to a little bit podcast, listening is nice. It’s distracting. I love to be distracted. Sort of when I’m drifting off to sixth like kids. That’s why they’d like a story at night before bed. It’s distracting. Your imagination kind of runs. And it’s just it’s fun. It’s escape. But, you know, is it a familiar voice in for something about his voice is magic to her puts her to sleep and she doesn’t even get through, you know, a third of the podcast. She just hears the voice. It’s repetitive. She’s been through it. It’s familiar. She knows how it’s going to end. And she goes right off to sleep. My son likes to listen to an audiobook. And he said it’s usually something boring, like a boring biography. And with someone with pretty much of a monotone and babies out. So, you know,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  41:51

have you ever heard of the podcast sleep with me? Yes. It’s Yes. Boring bedtime stories. Like literally that is the podcast, and it is within the top five. Yeah. Mental Health podcast forever. It’s called Sleep with me. By Dyrus scooter. Which by the way, if you’re interested, he is also sober. So that’s interesting.

 

42:18

Awesome. Um, yeah, that’s just I mean, it makes bedtime a little more fun. It works. Find what works for you. I mean, it, it definitely is worth, you know, a little, little trial and error doesn’t take much. These are small steps, you know, in the scheme of things, minor strategies that can be life changing. I mean, think about that.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  42:39

Well, what about people who are like, yes, yes, yes, I’m taking the melatonin. I’m going to bed. I still can’t sleep like what do you? What do you feel like they should do? Are they not giving it enough time? Are they not? Exercising? Are they exercising before bed? Is it what they’re eating? Do you know what I mean?

 

43:00

Yeah, I mean, it could be a lot of things. Again, that’s why I always say, get into a sleep doctor. And, you know, the physical exercise the physical activity during the day, huge impact on sleep. But again, I work with mothers who say there’s no way I can get to the gym at 6am. You take a walk at 6am I can’t do anything at 6am I am a night owl. And I just I brought my brain doesn’t work. I couldn’t even Oh, God, I couldn’t do it. But I’m an evening exercise. So, you will see me at a gym after dinner. And there has been recent research fairly recent. It I mean, I think back in the day, we had these hard and fast rules never ever, ever exercised at nighttime, it will interfere with your sleep. And I’m looking at this packed gym, with all these people working out. And sometimes it depends on the type of exercise that some people do find myself included with evening exercise. But even for people that haven’t been active, and want to see an improvement in their sleep, I’m talking baby steps, literally 10 minute walk, a 10 minute walk during the day will positively impact your sleep quality that night. It will hand men 10 minutes. That’s all I’m asking. 10 minutes, and then you’ll be surprised.

 

After a couple nights, you’re going to feel much better. And the more you’re going to want to keep walking, and then you’ll walk farther, and then you’ll sleep better. And the next thing you know, you’re going to join the gym two blocks away and say, you know, I’m going to give this a try. I’m going to take up tennis, I mean, all of these doors open for people when they’re getting sleep. And but again, they’ve just Well, I’m a certain age or I don’t sleep like I used to my point of references, their point of reference is shot. And it’s not old age. It’s not this or that. I mean, it’s no you’re not getting enough sleep and it’s so simple. I think sometimes we’re leery of it. Simple things, and maybe to be told to sleep more to counter all these chronic diseases and, you know, certain cancers are related to insufficient sleep. Really scary stuff. And I don’t, I mean, that’s not how I motivate encourage people. I mean, I tried to do that with positives, because there’s so many, they’re plentiful, they’re life changing, and so rewarding. But be aware that that it’s a serious thing. And really easy steps can make it happen. This isn’t a tall order. Unless, like you said, the back to your point, you’re, you’re trying to everything with no success.

 

It could be a sleep disorder there. There are over 88 Sleep Disorders. I mean, most everything is easily managed treated, we don’t treat insomnia, just with, you know, heavy meds anymore at all. It’s cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia is the number one most recommended step to take. There’s so many good things that will really help people get the sleep, they need sleep tests, you know, the sleep studies have improved vastly, you could get them done, and you could do them at home. Or you do them in the clinic. And of all the medical tests, it’s probably one of the easiest, people always tell me Oh, I’m worried about how do I get up and use the restroom with all those wires? Well, all of those wires that come out, you know, have one or two simple little plugs. And it’s truly, truly easy when compared to if you find someone with severe sleep apnea and treat it. Like it’s just, it’s an amazing, it’s an amazing turnaround.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  46:41

So, when we’re talking about sleep, what about the what are the biggest benefits that people can expect? And do you have like a timeline where you feel like at this point, you should feel more rested in the morning or Stop waking up in the middle of the night? If you I mean, I remember when I stopped drinking? I think it was day 12 The first night I sort of logged like, oh my god, I slept through the night. And this is pretty amazing.

 

47:13

Yeah, I mean, it’s there’s a wide variation. And it’ll depend on a lot of things. But that’s the cool thing about sleep. I mean, there’s plenty of immediate benefits that you can feel right off the bat. So, you know, if you take those steps, I think you’ll, you’ll see, there’s immediate gratification. It’s not all just, I’m going to get my sleep every night. So, I don’t have dementia when I’m at three, you know, that far-flung sort of? How am I going to handle that? No, I mean, just I think, Gosh, symptoms of ADHD, whether it’s children or adults, people will really describe well, how their focus has improved. I think I’m always intrigued with job satisfaction, improving retention. I work a lot with nurses and educating them about sleep and keeping nurses happy at their jobs and making sure they get plenty of sleep to do better at their jobs. I mean, it just factors into so many things. But I think the immediate good mood, you know, I mean, you may just attribute the irritability to other things. I mean, look at how we look at teenage angst, you know, teenagers can be pretty honoree and you know, it’s always the sort of the brunt jokes are made about it, and oh, my god, teenagers will do this and that.

 

I mean, it’s a lot of, it’s sleep deprivation, even the serious things they do, I mean, substance abuse, their propensity to start drinking in their teenage years because of sleep deprivation, drug use, promiscuity, reckless behavior, taking risks, huge thing, lack of judgment. We I did a show long time ago, I did a radio show on horrible financial decisions made by people that are sleep deprived, and don’t make any big decisions. Like, at any point when you’re sleep deprived, I’m not saying you know, we can be sleep deprived other than just at bedtime, you know, who hasn’t been up all night with a crying baby will, you know, behave accordingly. You know, look at the time do the math and say, I’m too tired to make this decision about cashing out my you know, retirement plan or buying this, you know, risky kind of thing or joint you know, closing my business. I mean, think of all the things so, yeah, I mean, personality things. I think most people don’t see that connection or make that association. So-so. It is, but I think they’ll start seeing improvements and not necessarily attributed to wow, I’m getting more sleep. But I think Cydia, just what is it that happiness, gratitude to increase with sleep, a gratitude for your partner? I just think these are lovely things that really enhance the quality of life for all of us.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  50:10

Yeah, I always think about the quote, like joy comes in the morning, like just waking up, well rested, not waking up in the middle of the night, waking up and literally stretching in your bed and just thinking about your day, even if it’s busy, without the immediate thought of how am I going to cope today. And for me, just having, you know, 30 minutes in a quiet house before everyone wakes up, and we start rushing around like that is that is lovely.

 

50:45

And you know, let me just interject real quickly here about waking up in the middle of the night. This is real important for listeners, and I don’t, I always after the end of podcasts will think, Oh, I forgot to mention this. If you wake up in the middle of the night, don’t panic. Now I tell you people will actually do start getting stressed out and saying, Oh my God, my next day is ruined. And then they start, you know, I’ve got three more hours to have to be up at that meeting three more hours for a prayer, you know, that whole minds, stuff starts occurring, we have a little different I call it brain soup is different during the middle of the night. We’re very emotional, that brain chemistry it we’re in a different sort of mindset, the middle the night, so we’ll feel stressed out. I tell people just chill out, chill out. Don’t stress over having to get up. Don’t stress about being awake. Because that will keep you awake. I don’t know if that’s helpful tonight, but or not. But it just you have to kind of giggle to yourself and say, Oh, here we go. Crazy brain is, you know, I’m starting to stress. I think the more relaxed we are about to sleep thing. And the more we say, Oh, well of course I’m going to be much more whacked at 3:00am. Because I woke up to use the restroom. And now what am I going to do? Just let it go. If you do need to read for a little bit or something. But I find that if the room is dark and comfortable, you’re comfortable, you’re in a comfortable mattress. It’s quiet, you’re probably fall right back to sleep super fast. And if not just chill out and think happy thoughts.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  52:19

Will you talk to me a little bit about sleep medications. I know when I went to my doctor and said, Oh my god, I’m having trouble sleeping and waking up at 3am She gave me Ambien, which I absolutely should not have combined with a bottle of wine, but I did. super dangerous. But I know some people definitely use that they use melatonin various things. Since you’re someone who studies this all the time. Can you tell us about your take on those various medications?

 

52:54

Yeah, um, I’m not a fan for a lot, you know, for reasons. I think there are exceptions, I think, short term. You know, if someone’s going through their heart, you know, people go through the death of a loved one. There are all kinds of situations that can warrant a closely supervised trial, you know, medication timeframe, that is, you know, to get someone through a rough spot, or that’s absolutely appropriate. But when I have someone raise their hand and tell me they’ve been taking Ambien for 16 years, from a family doctor, I mean, you know, if you can’t fall asleep without that good is this, this person had never been to a sleep physician. And you know it just so. So, if you’re looking at it from a point of how long has it been going on? What is it need, you know, prescribe for is this ongoing? Or have we gotten to the root of the problem? And some medications are going to be safer than others? I just think I would look; I think, the short answer is look at medications as short term. And when it gets down to some of those things I would and if it’s not short term, go to the sleep mixture, a sleep physician is managing.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  54:18

That’s great advice or, you know, try for a while without it to get your body off of some of the medications. Do you feel that same way about sort of the non-prescription?

 

54:32

Yeah, over the counter. I mean, I talked to people that are I mean, I think very dependent on over the counter like they have to have it at night. I talked to a gentleman two weeks ago when I was at a conference. He said two shots of whiskey and melatonin every night is the only way he can sleep, and you know, I just have to not make the face I want to make you know in front of him when he tells me that was like for the love of Pete So I Once again, I said to like I said, What happens when you don’t do that? Well, he’s been doing it for forever. But see, I guess I’m about you’re getting to the root of the problem, or, I mean, what is their sleep disorder going on? Is something else going on, you know, what’s going on with this person, there’s some pretty common, there’s sleep disorders that can be managed and treated and totally taken care of, yeah, I had a, I had a patient who had very severe sleep apnea. And you know, sometimes there’s a little hand holding that goes on for 30 to 60 days, helping someone this was a geriatric patient is at Synergy, getting adjusted to the CPAP, getting the pressure comfortable, and you know, just doing all of that, the things, and I talked to his geriatrician, briefly on the phone, and we were kind of comparing notes. And she said, Look, Terry, let’s just get its diabetes. So out of control, let’s get that taken care of first and manage, then we’ll work on the CPAP. And I said, opposite. I said, Hear me, yeah, hear me out. I said, if we get the CPAP taken care of, and as sleep apnea under control, guess what’s going to improve his metabolism? His I mean, he’ll be more motivated to do to be compliant with medications. He’ll be clear headed, he’ll be focused. I mean, I think we we’ve done everything sort of backwards, you know, in several areas when it comes to sleep. So, I’m, we kind of flipped the script, is something I recommend frequently to, you know, let’s look at it in a different way. Why are you? You know, what on earth? I don’t know what like, why would you have to have two shots of whiskey having it?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  56:44

Yeah, that is that is not helpful. And you are better than me, because, you know, I went to my eye doctor, and he was saying something, I was like, Well, I don’t drink at all. He’s like, Well, someday he goes, he was joking. He’s like, Well, maybe that’s the problem. And I like my tongue for approximately three minutes. And then I was like, hey, heard you made that joke? He want to tell me, you know, like, why did you make it? And he was like, I don’t know. You know, I’ve heard some, some alcohol can be good for you. And I was like, All right, let me talk to you. I mean, I’m that girl now, which is fair, but I’m just like, you need to be educated.

 

57:27

I mean, people do. I mean, and that’s the thing. And I think we’re both in in roles that we need to do it. We’re passionate about what we do we understand the science and the benefits of these healthy approaches. We have just a limited. Yeah, I

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  57:46

don’t care if people drink or don’t drink. I’m happy to help them if they don’t want to, but I do mind when medical professionals are not informed. Right. Right. And, you know, when I hear people tell me, they have severe sleep apnea, but what and put, you know, don’t want to do anything about it. And you know, laugh it off. I mean, it’s cringe worthy. It’s cringe worthy. Yeah.

 

58:11

So, I mean, well, I feel like the more we talk about this, the better. It will be our last question. These are all my personal questions, weight weighted blankets, what’s your take on that? I love them. I love them. really careful with kids, kids, that that’s the only you got to make sure that the weight is based on body weight. But with kids, I’d be cautious.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  58:34

I think they’re great. I’ve had a couple look up the right body weight for like yourself. Yeah. And you can have difference. I know it can make you feel really secure, if you like,

 

58:46

right, yeah. And I thought they were I couldn’t sort of imagine how it would feel until I tried one. I just couldn’t, you know, sort of picture it or imagine how Yeah, but it’s a good feeling. I know they do a lot of autistic kids and autistic people in general tend to have a lot of sleep problems and sleep issues. So, anything that gives them a little X some F. I’ve heard sort of just anecdotal accounts of sleeping better with those.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  59:18

Yes, it reminds me of when you have a baby and you swaddle them, you spot on really tight. Yeah, and then of course, they always escape. Everyone.

 

Yeah, but it’ll do their little Houdini move to get out of it. Yeah, but no, I I’m a big fan of the weighted blankets for sure.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  59:36

Nice. Well, so where can people find you and follow up and find your book? Sure.

 

59:41

I’m better sleep Council. I do a lot of work with that group. I’ve been working with him for about 10 years now, I think. And they’re fabulous. They do some real interesting study. Some of its with consumers and bedding products, mattresses, and things but it’s really good information about how people look at sleep and feel about sleep and what people strategies. I mean, really good site better sleep.org. Okay, yeah. And my books are on Amazon. My last name is CRALL E. And my slate book was published in 2016. So, I mean, it’s, I’m not saying it’s outdated. It’s older, but we are working. I am working with some sleep notables in the pediatric sleep realm. And we are working on sleep book for super young kids pre-K. Because we are convinced that well slept kids are healthy, and happy adults and productive and have good lives. So, we’re really working on getting those sleep habits established early. And especially to sort of underserved populations, making sure everyone has a level playing field. And everyone can get the sleep they need and self-manage their sleep. So, I’m really excited about that.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:01:01

Yeah, that sounds great. Very cool. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a pleasure. And thanks for answering all of my personal questions.

 

Oh, sure. Casey, yeah, let’s stay in touch. It was fun.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:01:15

All right. Thank you.