SUMMARY KEYWORDS

reduce, money, stress, financial first aid, recovery, women, heal, thoughts, behaviors, passion, SHE RECOVERS® Salt Spring Island Yoga Retreat, quit drinking, negative, patterns, Coach, day one, Day 1, sobriety, trigger, drinking cycle, fear, financial security, adulting, making wrong decisions, simplifies, practical, proactive, optimistic, provides, real, empowering, overwhelm, empathy, Financial Advisor, comfortable, safe environment, emotional, bawling, fuel my addiction, wine, cocktails, wine tours, vineyards, VIP treatment, wine tasting, sober, bank, codependent relationship, Pay day,
SHE RECOVERS® Coaching, moral code, judgment, integrity, important, genuine interest, love, compassions, learning, pressured, good income, affected, performance, high achiever, goals, moneymaker, soul sucking, financial mass, feel good, feeling, numbing out, hangover, teach, learn, journey, training, Coaching, climbing, light at the end of the tunnel, rewarding, environment, tape recorders, energy, parents, violence, home, impulsive, spender, collection, baggage, messages, influence, don’t have debt, contingency, time is money spent, value, build, family, business, exchange, valuable, lessons, better or worse, pay for money, self esteem, self worth, failure, tailspin, struggles, anxiety, tension, marriage, inner critic, not smart enough, not good enough, not disciplined enough, get your shit together, Amazon Prime, e-commerce, respect, addicted, addiction, package, we are doing the work, write, money story, deeply understand, place of forgiveness, place of acceptance, trauma, move forward, forgive myself, take accountability, focused, heart, budget, profit, loss, statement, finances, a spending plan, clear idea, choice, restrictions, happy, values, getting in touch, travel, planning, dreaming, photography, memories, brings me joy, main steps, hopes, dreams, savings account, dream trip fund, priority, looking forward, living, resonate, place of privilege, B&Bs, afford, start somewhere, stigma, judged, recovery community, working hard, systematic privilege, change your future, realization, exhausting, unique, SHE RECOVERS® Foundation Organization, confidence issues, Group Coaching Sessions, you are not alone, layoffs, furlough, primary breadwinner, mortgage, health insurance, responsible, pivot, focused on winning, role, cope, tolerate, optimistic, contentment, limiting belief, Quit Lit, You Are A Badass, perspective, shift, mindset, life is too short, grounded, flow, growing, acknowledgement, tangible, simple tools, quarantine, tracking, keeping, conscious contact, invest 

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Linda Parmar

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a bus, how to sit with your emotions, when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Hi everyone. My guest today is Linda Parmar. Linda specializes in Financial Recovery and helping women in recovery to heal their money, thoughts and behaviors. Linda and I met about 3 years ago, at the SHE RECOVERS® Salt Spring Island Yoga Retreat, which was incredible. Linda and I hit it off right away. She quit drinking 6 years ago, a little over 6 years ago and I quit drinking about 4 and a half years ago.

 

Linda and I connected because we both drank to a great extent over stress. We were both in the corporate world. As Linda says, drinking was her jam, which was mine too, and the corporate world sucked her dry, and I completely get that. And in the time I’ve known Linda, she has completely stepped into her life and her passion and she helps women with financial recovery. 

 

Linda learned with her recovery that alcohol and drugs were just a symptom of negative patterns and behaviors. And this is the same for money. A few years into recovery, Linda was ready to look at these patterns and behaviors, which led her to become a Certified Money Coach. Linda’s worked in the Financial Industry for 20 years, and has made a career from helping people with their finances. I really wanted to have Linda on this podcast and have this conversation because I know that for all women, women who are drinking too much, women who are trying to quit drinking and trying to get a “day one” that sticks and women in early sobriety, Money, the financial aspects of their life is a big trigger. And it’s a trigger that makes you want to not look around at everything around you. And also something that makes you want to bury your head in the sand. 

 

It can be a reason to keep drinking, when you’re in the drinking cycle, and it can be a trigger once you get out of the drinking cycle, because it’s heavy, and it’s scary and it hits us in so many of the areas where we have a lot of fear, fear around financial security, fear around adulting, fear around being able to take care of ourselves, and making the wrong decisions. 

 

And so, what I love about what Linda does is she really simplifies things. She’s practical, she’s proactive, she’s optimistic, she provides real empowering help, but in a way that won’t overwhelm you. So I wanted to bring Linda on to talk about how to reduce money stress, because that’s the ultimate goal is to figure out how you can reduce money stress Linda provides financial first aid.

 

So Linda, thank you for being here. I’m so excited that you’re on the podcast.

 

4:08  

Absolutely. I’m so excited to be here.

 

4:11  

That’s awesome. So I know that you help women, reduce money stress. Tell us about how you do that and why you came into this work.

 

4:21  

For sure, I would probably start with why I came into this work because I think that a big part, I’m a very empathic person. So when I did my life, my former life, I like to call it as a “Financial Advisor”. People automatically felt really comfortable with me in regards to like, I made a very safe environment. But what I noticed is that how emotional people got when they came into my office or really, like nervous and it was just like, oh my god, I would you know, introduce myself when we would start talking about money and it would just be like Holy cow, like, these people would just be like bawling in my office and I would have the same people constantly coming into my office like refinancing, refinancing, refinancing, their house and you know that was something that I was doing as well, right? So like to fuel my addiction, I was just constantly you know, putting you know, I didn’t drink cheap wine. I was like, the girls night like, the mummies like club of what girls night and cocktails. It was not cheap. So I was like, isn’t drinking cheap stuff a sign that you don’t really have a problem, right? Like you’re glad when you drink a bottle of wine like it’s the good stuff.

 

5:45  

Yeah, and I did wine tours and I was the queen of wine tours. People would come to me. 

Oh my god, Linda, let’s go on the wine tour. And I would just be like, the vineyards would know me. I’d get like, VIP treatment. I didn’t have a permit. blowback. No?

 

6:01  

Well, every anniversary trip to wine tasting regions, God, you know, God bless my husband like Walla Walla, Napa Sonoma, even in Australia, when we went there, you know, rent the go bang with the private tour like, and, shockingly, totally… totally off on a tangent. I moved. My husband was trying to get me to move outside of Seattle for years. I freaking moved 3 miles from 99, zero wine tasting rooms. Like, I am positive. That’s how he got me out here. But I’m just like, really, Casey. 

 

So, I hear you on that, like, drinking is not cheap. And when you’re drinking, you also don’t want to look at your finances, and you don’t want to look at how much you’re spending drinking. So it’s like this crazy circular cycle that you’re in that’s bringing you down and there’s just so much fear around it.

 

6:58  

Absolutely. And I joke around and I know it’s not funny. But I joke around when I was really deep in my addiction or like when I got sober, I would think that money on the credit card was like, my money so it was like, Oh, I have $7,000 to spend, let’s just go crazy. So yeah, I just like, I got sober, I was a Financial Advisor. I was a frickin financial mess myself. I was gonna pass the money limit of the credit card, was your buddy as a financial advisor.

 

7:31  

Isn’t that crazy? 

 

A little bit. 

 

Isn’t that crazy? Yeah, it’s a little bit crazy. A little bit. But the crazy thing and… and so much love to all the bankers out there because I know it’s a stressful job. Anybody that I had in my career that I worked with was exactly the same. The bank was, and I described it as a codependent relationship. Like, we were able, we knew the system, so we knew how to work it to be able to spend a crowd load of money. We were, it was like a joke around the bank. As soon as Pay day hit there, we would laugh and it would be like, Oh, yay, my overdraft is covered today. It was like alcohol in the banking industry because the stress was insane. So kind of fast forward to Salt Spring and being there, and Mama Dawn, and sitting in the barn and it was like, oh, we’re starting SHE RECOVERS® Coaching and all I kept saying to people was like, I hate my job. I hate my job. Like, if I have to sell another credit card for so many, like, sales dollars. And it was just like, you would have to write down every day, like how many credit cards you sold? Like it was just insanity. And it stressed me out and like your moral code of what you know, it’s Right, right. You’re supposed to be helping people. So judgment, but it’s you know, I mean, I… I hear you in terms of like, I know that integrity is really really important to you and so many of us. You know, climb up corporate ladders where what you started with genuine interest and love and compassion and learning turns into something where you’re being pressured to do things that you’re like this doesn’t feel right and then again you drink make that thought go away because by that point, you have a good income.

 

9:23  

That’s exactly right. And I actually like, held to my integrity so hard that it started to perk. I don’t think it, like, I guess I was gonna say, it affected my performance, but I was a high achiever. Like, I always got my goals. I always exceeded my goals, but I never… The only thing I felt like, and it still bothers me to this day, was the insurance piece. But I won’t go into that, but the bank was like trying to get you to like, trick people into taking insurance because it was our biggest goal and our biggest moneymaker that year. And it’s like, oh, it just was soul sucking anyways, it was just like, Dawn was like, well, you should be a Money Coach. Like, you know so much about money. I said, Yeah, I know a lot about money but my financial mass, like, I was addicted once I got sober. It became a license to spend money for me, it became because I’m not drinking, I’m gonna buy other things to make me feel good. 

 

And that’s my main thing, especially within my Coaching is I know people spend money to feel good. We’re trying to like, change how we’re feeling. It’s just another thing that we’re numbing out on. Right? So it was just and when she said that, I’ll never forget that moment. It was a huge moment. And one of the girls in the barn said, sometimes you need to teach what you need to learn. And I was like, Oh my god, that’s so true. And I started my Money Coaching Journey and got Money Coaching before I decided if I was going to take the training, worked with a coach and it completely changed my life. And so then I was able to, like, walk the walk, talk the talk and I’m, I’m in financial recovery myself, I was in the biggest hole ever, and I’m still climbing out of it. But I’m still climbing out of it. And that’s the main thing. I work at it every single day. Yeah. And I know that I have a light at the end of my tunnel. But that’s coming quickly now, which is so good. It’s so rewarding.

 

11:26  

Well, so what did… What did Money Coaching do for you? And you said it was like, saved your life and helped you get out of it? What was it because you had the information? How did koecher help you change behaviors and look at stuff that you were terrified of?

 

11:44  

Exactly, and that’s exactly what I did. 

 

Was that it? 

 

We identified why I was the way I was, and unfortunately I was the way I was because of the environment that I grew up in. So a lot of it stems back to patterns and behaviors we learned as kids, right? And I like to say that we’re tape recorders that don’t know how to press stop, and we’re just ingesting all this stuff. I truly believe money to be an energy. So sometimes parents don’t even talk about it, but you know exactly what’s going on. Right? Because there’s just like this negative like, and unfortunately, there was violence in my home because of money. So there’s that, you know, it was quite traumatic for me. Yeah. So when I grew up, my mom was an impulsive spender. Spent a ton of money and I learned the exact same thing. I had my first collection at age. I want to say it was like 16. Remember those Columbia hosts when they used to send you, like, the CDs and stuff?

 

12:46  

Guide? Yes. Anyone younger than us is not remembering these. But yeah.

 

12:52  

They’re not remembering it. But you used to be able to, it was like 10 CDs for like one cent, but then they would send you Like, a CD every month, and then you would have to pay for it. I never paid for it. And then I went into collections at like age 16. But like my parents never taught me and that’s the thing. We’re never taught about money in some homes, right? If you were taught about money in your home, you are super lucky.

 

13:22   

If you’re listening to this episode and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit®. The Sobriety Starter Kit® is an online self study, sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step-by-step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one-on-one coaching. And The Sobriety Starter Kit® is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it, when it fits into your schedule.  You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time. This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step-by-step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life. You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better, you’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course.

 

I know that you know everybody, even if you didn’t have collections, young people have some baggage about money completely, and my family was very different. But again, the messages that I was told to this day influence everything I do, like in my family, it was like, never buy a car that you can’t pay full price for, you know, don’t take on debt. You’re lucky to have a job. And then that was my mom’s super conservative. So I have this, you know, both spend money and I’m like squirreling away money everywhere, because I have this idea that it is ultimate security, should anything fall apart. So I have like 16 different contingency, you know, squirrel nuts squirreled away which is not efficient. 

 

And also my dad was very much like, time is money spent, you know, the energy which is good, right? Like you are paying someone who has an expertise in a service. They… You do not and that is a value, and you’re helping them, you know, build their family and their business. And it is simply an exchange of value. You know, they need to pay their mortgage and you are not as good as them in this area. Not that you can’t learn, my husband these days has taught me that I actually don’t need to pay for everything that I don’t know. Like, he taught me how to like mud and spackle, and drill holes and paint balls. It sounds so stupid, but like my dad never taught me that. So, right. It’s completely different in some ways, but like if you have negative money, stories, or examples, or we’re not taught various things, like I think Money Coaching is so valuable, but even with some of those lessons, for better or worse, like there’s baggage there.

 

16:50  

For sure, for sure. And the awesome thing I think about is like, you’re like how your parents said you know, don’t have debt, pay for money or pay for your car to the fullest. Price. And if you have addictive behaviors, sometimes you pick up and spending money can be addictive, right? So if you’re in a situation where you’re like, your whole life, it’s like don’t go into debt, don’t go into debt, and then all of a sudden you find yourself in debt. What that does to your self esteem, what that does to your self worth is just crushing because you’re like, Oh, my God, I’m a failure. I’m a failure, because this is what I’m not supposed to be. And then that, that just, I have so many clients like that, and then it just turns into this tailspin. And where do you turn right?

 

17:39  

Yeah. And like drinking, this is something that almost never no one talks about. Like, it is the third rail that every single person struggles with, whether it is because they have debt they’re embarrassed about, they spend too much or they’re so terrified to leave their job and their finances because they have security issues that they put up with stuff. That is driving them to drink like anxiety right it causes so much tension in marriage because it but nobody talks about it and I love that you’re helping people with this in a compassionate way that isn’t you know, you’re a bad person because so many of us are you know the, I just did an episode on the inner critic and it’s like, I’m not smart enough, I’m not good enough I’m not disciplined enough. Get your shit together, you know? And yet Oh, Amazon Prime.

 

18:29  

Amazon Prime. I love to hate Amazon Prime, just like I love to hate a lot of money things. But like in so many people have issues with Amazon Prime like, because it’s just like, it’s one click like, you’re literally one click away from just oh my goodness…

 

18:46  

Well, I went for 20 years in e-commerce. So like, I respect it like the fewest number of clicks from view to buy. Don’t let them enter their credit card. Do nothing that pauses them. retarget them. You know, all this stuff. And yet, it is… it is very, very, very calculated, you know.

 

19:06  

Huge. And you get addicted to that feeling of like, and I have so many people that are like they click on the Amazon thing and then when they get their package, it’s like they look at this stuff for like a brief second, and get another little dopamine hit from like, Oh yeah, I got a package and then everything just sits there. Like, it just sits there and it’s just like I haven’t actually… 

 

I have one client like that. She’s got like 5 Amazon boxes she hasn’t opened yet. 

 

Yeah, yeah. And it’s that she just looked at that hit that you get like you’re literally going to jail for being hit to your brain when you’re spending money. My Coaching is because again, we went down to the behaviors of what really happened to me and why I was the way I was. Because I feel like sometimes we need to dig especially in recovery, right? Like, and that’s why I love recovery because we’re doing the work right. So when I started to do the coaching myself. And one of the first things I did in my coaching and what my Money Coach did with me was you write out your money story and you write. And you answer a lot of questions about, you know, why you are the way you are with money. And once you deeply understand that, and then there’s a place of forgiveness that starts to happen. There’s a place of acceptance that starts to happen, which is where compassion comes in, right? Like for me, because there was violence in my home, my parents were both alcoholics and money was a huge, huge stress in our house, like I wrote a forgiveness letter to each of my parents for whatever the trauma experienced as a child, and I never gave it to them. That was for me, it wasn’t for anybody else. And you know, to kind of start to move forward and forgive my mum for things that she taught me. And, you know, forgiving myself for things that you know, stuff that I have done that I know was completely wrong, I too had to forgive myself and really accept where I was with money and take accountability for that. And if we don’t take accountability for that, right, and then we get this the behaviors that we focused on that first and then got into like the dollars and cents of stuff, because if you don’t really heal what’s in your heart, you’re just going to keep doing those same behaviors over and over again, because you’re just trying to cover up feelings.

 

21:28  

I love that you do that work first, because I have to say that when I think about Money Coaching, I think, Oh my god, they’re gonna make me make a budget. And that is the last thing that I want to do, like to, you know, which is funny because I did. It works all the time. You have your profit and loss statement, what’s coming out, what’s coming in, and yet, I don’t want to look at that. Like, it’s just to me, it’s work. And it also is just, I don’t know, like, at home with my own finances, even though I know how to do it, like, I desperately don’t want to look at what’s coming in, what’s coming out, because I feel like I’m going to take pleasures away from myself.

 

22:15  

And that is such a thank you for saying that, because, and that’s why the word “budget” just makes me recall and it’s like, budget because I think that I tried to budget for so many years and it just never worked for me. So I call it a spending plan. So I work with my clients once we really work through the behavioral pieces. What I love about calling it a spending plan is because it is important to make sure you know it’s kind of like trying to drive somewhere without a map right? Like when you are working on your money, you want to kind of have a clear idea of where you want it to go. Right And so with that, I like to make a spending plan with them because then it becomes a choice, it becomes what you choose. 

 

Just spend your money on… And I am not a Money Coach, that is going to have you put restrictions of any sort within your plan because then it leads into almost like kind of like food, right? Like, I always use the food analogy when you go on a diet, and you completely restrict yourself from something for like a day for me, it used to be like a few days, then you’d completely binge on something, right? That was my behavior that I had. And so with money ,if you’re like, Oh, God, I can’t spend money on that. I can’t do something that makes me happy. You’re going to start to still have this negative energy around money because then it’s like, oh, crap, well, I can’t do that. I can’t afford it. Where? Let’s move around stuff. So like, you can do stuff that makes you happy. It’s so important to do stuff that makes you happy with money. 

 

Yeah, it’s so important to us. It’s like yeah, we’re gonna live in a life where it’s like, yeah, money is the evil, money is the root of all evil. You bawl and it’s yeah, if you respect money, it respects you back.

 

24:05  

Yeah. Well and the other thing I think is that this work is so tied to your values and getting in touch with your values like everybody’s values are different. You know, in my mind, you know, with my parents, right, never buy a car you can’t pay for it. I do not lease cars, I do not get new. Like I buy a car. It basically goes 14 years until it dies like that’s what I do. And yet, I love to travel. Like, to me, that is you know, I enjoy it for a year and a half like planning it, the idea you know, going on it, the dreaming about it, the photography after it, the memories I have 15 years later. That is something I value and brings me joy. 

 

So forget the new car. I don’t care less about that. But like, you know, last year, I went to Greece and Amsterdam. That to me was like A joy of my life that I will never forget. And so, getting in touch with those values does allow you to be like, you know, to let some stuff go that isn’t important to you and yet splurge on.

 

25:15  

Yes and that’s one of my main steps is working on your hopes and your dreams. What do you dream about? Like if money wasn’t an issue? What do you want for yourself? What would you love and it’s just like anything is possible but you really have to first of all want it and know that you deserve that. So like putting aside like maybe you know, some money every month into a savings account that you call Greece in Amsterdam trip, instead of spending an extra hundred dollars on eating out that month, like you know, save that you’re going to go in a couple years or 3 years or whatever, but have that, oh my goodness I get to make my dreams come true. 

 

Yeah, how good would that feel in your heart? Like that’s what it’s about?

 

26:04  

Absolutely. And we do actually do that. We have a dream trip fund. That is only for that, with the idea being it’s impossible to carve out that kind of chunk of money with your day to day stuff. But that is something amazing. I know women who are in a financial hole. This is not resonating with them. And it sounds really frivolous. And yet, it’s something we’ve been doing for 20 years. Like, it’s not something new and meaning it’s not like oh, this just happened for us. Like, this is a priority for our family and we cut in other ways so the values work and what’s going to bring you true joy is so important. I also think like when you’re in recovery from drinking or substances, looking forward in your life to true joy that doesn’t come in a bottle with a hangover. That is what makes not drinking feel like living.

 

27:00  

Yes, yes. And I love that you brought up the “how people would resonate if they don’t have” like, if they’re in a big hole and stuff because yes, like, and it feels like for me sometimes I talk from a place of privilege, that you know, being able to put money into a savings account and stuff. But when I first was in financial recovery, and I was in debt so bad, it was ridiculous. You know, my biggest thing to save up for I remember was that I was putting just $10 a month because I think it’s really important to start a behavior of saving even a little bit when we’re paying off debt. 

 

Like, it was like, I did a full moon kayak trip and it was just… didn’t anything but it was with my, for you know, the 4 of us in our family and I think it costs like $280 which was a big chunk, but it was still like, you have to start somewhere even if you know of course, like Amsterdam and Greece are big, a big thing to save for it, but even something small. 

 

Like yeah, little kayaking evening with your family and a date night with your husband. What brings you joy? Like let’s… Yeah, you know, and sometimes it can be just something small.

 

28:09  

Yeah. Absolute molar. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean I, I completely feel that and I remember even when my husband and I were like, super young like, 23, we used to like, want to go to these B&Bs, but we couldn’t afford them, you know what they’re like, 2 to 3 night minimum. So we would call them and be like, gosh, we’re traveling around and like, we’re so busy, we only have one night to spend, would you make an exception, you know, to let us stay one night and we would go there and like arrive at the rigetti to leave at the end. Did like, it was like, once every 4 months, but at 22, 23 it was just amazing. So I mean, it is creativity but also, you know, this is something I love and it’s something important, so I really… All that is to say, I feel like you know, writing, you know, realizing where your money story comes from, realizing that it’s not your fault that it is deep, that there is a reason like everything that you behave the way in which you behave when you know better, you do better. And then also calling it a spending plan. I love and tying it to values like that is so much good work, that you have to do before you like to put together a budget which is sort of cringe worthy. In my opinion, although I know I need to do it.

 

29:36  

I love that it’s about your hopes and dreams and you have to start somewhere. And I think that if we don’t tie it to things that would make us happy, then it’s just gonna feel like a chore. It’s just gonna feel like another thing, right? because like you said, money is something people don’t talk about. People are scared to death of it. It’s this huge elephant sitting in the room. I want to make it something that makes you feel good, I want something to make you feel hopeful because people don’t feel hopeful about money and it’s time that we change that right? And just like that stigma that everybody feels about not everybody but and I think we’re really starting to remove it but the work we’re doing but so many people would be you know, not wanting to stop drinking or be in recovery because of like, the term alcoholic or they’re like different terms that felt really kind of icky to them if that feels icky to you, you know, like and because of the stigma people judging knew, right? So, in the same way with money, people feel completely judged. Most of all, they’re judging themselves mostly. But what are other people going to think when they know that I’m in debt? Everybody’s in freakin debt, but like, if you’re not in it, and some people aren’t, and some people work really hard, but in the recovery community, I know that debt is something that’s really really hard for people as well..

 

31:01  

And also it’s not, you know, it’s completely not about working hard, right? There are, like we’re talking about in society. Now. It is systematic privilege, based on where you come from based on where you started in the world based on the people who surround you in the messages you’ve heard. So, you know, I just want to make sure that everybody knows that it’s not about working hard, or someone being more disciplined than you. It is completely about how you were set up in the beginning, and yet you can change your story, you can change your future. 

 

And in addition to that, I really do think that what I love about what you’re saying is the idea of looking forward, right, and healing yourself, and also what you said about everybody having this issue. It’s so useful. Universal. and one of the things I love about recovery is just that we get really honest with ourselves and one of the privileges of coaching women and hearing their stories is just the realization that everyone has. Whatever their stuff is that nobody is talking about, like whatever you’re sitting at home and being like, I am screwed up. This is wrong with me. I feel shame about this. what it looks like on the outside for everyone literally, is not what’s going on, on the inside. I can almost guarantee you that like financially, relationships with spouses, relationships with themselves and their parents, relationships with their children, relationships with money, so it does look like everyone else has their stuff together. It is not true.

 

32:51  

It’s so true. The Joneses are broke, is what I like to tell people. Everybody’s trying to keep up with the Joneses. The Joneses broke people; they are just like living the high life and trying to keep up with that is exhausting. Like it’s just and yeah, you’re totally right. It’s when you think that it’s unique, what you’re going through is unique to you when there’s so many women and that’s where and what I love to say and that’s why I love women in recovery as well is that when women come together and share we heal, right so it’s just like our experience on the farm like all these strangers come together and then by the end of it, it’s just like, oh my god, like you’re stuck with me for life because we’re soul sisters, right? Like, I run a group.

 

33:43  

And we should clarify like or not clarify, like, share what we’re talking about in Mama Dawn and all of that, who are amazing. It’s the SHE RECOVERS® Foundation Organization. 

 

I’ll put the link in the show notes. We met and I’ve been a few times – 9, 8. Have as well to the Salt Spring Island Yoga Retreat with Taryn Strong and Dawn Nickel. And it’s usually like 30 women I slept with in a year with my sober bestie. It’s yoga twice a day. It’s incredible. There’s this gorgeous barn that we just have, you know guitar circles and sharing circles. I feel like I’m 16 at summer camp again and I was terrified, terrified to go and it was one of the most healing fulfilling wonderful experiences that I’ve had. And again, you don’t have to go all out to do it. You can save for a year to go to it. I truly believe it’s one of my sober supports. And not only that, like you can camp you know, they have this gorgeous lawn that you camp on. So you can choose your level of you know, investment, it is an investment and of course this year it got canceled which just kills me because it was something that every year is just feeds me But I’m just I’m only saying that because we were referencing it and you know, thing, lots of people listening don’t know Mama Dawn or the borrower, right?

 

So it is, it’s incredible.

 

35:12  

It really is. And, and it just brings to again, sometimes we feel like you’re we’re unique when we come to the bar or to come to the farm, and it’s just like, oh my god, I’m gonna meet these people, and I have all these self, you know, confidence issues, and then you walk out and feel so different. And that’s what I love when I lead Group Coaching Sessions, because I bring these women together, and the first session, they’re all really shy, and they’re all really nervous because it’s like, Oh, goodness, I’m not gonna have to talk about my money. And then by the time we’re done our second session, because we really start to dig in about our feelings about money and how we are the way we are. And by the time you’re finished, you know, you can just see their shoulders drop it, it’s just like, oh my god. There’s other people that understand this. There’s other people that are struggling with this. Oh my goodness, I’m not alone. You’re not alone in this and this is one of my biggest messages is you are not alone. There’s so many of us struggling with it.

 

36:14  

Yeah. So tell me how you were able, you know, you said when you came from Money Coaching and where you were, that you are in a deep, deep hole, and I think that’s something that people need to hear. Because I know people listening are like, gosh, my credit cards are off the chart. Right now. There are a ton of layoffs and furloughs which I know are terrifying. I myself, you know, 20 to 23 years in the corporate world got laid off, 4 times. So if you think I don’t get it, I get it. I got laid off when I was in a startup venture, capital funded startup and lost my job with two weeks severance during the 2008 downturn with a 6 month old, when I was the primary breadwinner and you know, just A few years into owning my first home and having the mortgage and the health insurance so I totally get the fear and anxiety but I think hearing how you were able to dig out, knowing that you were in a big hole, will give people hope.

 

37:14  

Yes, when I first started I would I was using my home as my wallet. As I was saying, I was refinancing a lot. And then it came to a point where we had maxed out the refinances in our home. And yeah, it was like, we were, we went from living the life for like, I joke around about and I know, again, I’ll say it, it’s not it’s not funny, but if I try to add humor to things to you know, that’s just the way I am, but I’m not. It’s funny.

 

37:50  

Well, when I think back on it, it is funny to me because like the vacations we used to take when we didn’t have the money. So it became like a real Like, acceptance of where we were, and we had to buckle right down. And you thought you’d think that I would have learned my lesson then. And we weren’t incurring any more debt, but we bought a new home. And then we, from there, sold our home. And we bought a bigger house and built the house and my husband was supposed to be having this, you know, big job, and life changes, right? 

 

So we were busy trying to pay off our debt, pay our new mortgage payment, really like buckling down and getting really simple with things. And we had to sell our house again, because we would have lost our home and we would have lost everything. And it was the constant stress of just like, how are we going to pay the mortgage payment, we had dug ourselves in a really big hole that we couldn’t seem to get out of. And the thing that I think is really important to mention is that when you come up with a plan of how you’re going to pay off your debt. 

 

Like I did with my Money Coach when I first started. Life changes really quickly sometimes. So my husband’s mom unfortunately passed away quite tragically, he went and had quite a lot of anxiety, had to quit his job, and went to a job that paid half of what it did before. But it made him happy. But it was like, Hey, what’s that gonna do for us for money, and we had to be really responsible, and that’s why we sold our house. And it was just like, and we didn’t come out of it unscathed. Like, we still are paying off debt. And again, I have a plan on how to pay that off. But life can… life throws things at you constantly, and it can throw you off your financial game. Huge. 

 

You really have to like the big word of 20/20 is like pivot. You’ve got to pivot to certain things. That’s what we have to do with money to like as much as we’re focused on winning. Paying down our debt, like throwing stuff at you and it’s just like oh my god and so many people are at K. I’m out. I’m out, this money thing is really just not working out for me staying the course is so huge, because I call it the bucket button. People press the bucket button really easily because life throws things at you where you’re like off track and you’re like, Oh my god, I just can’t keep up with my debts again. 

 

And that’s just like when the other thing you said about your husband is you know, he had anxiety about his role. He had to leave his job. Like, I feel that and I know so many other women feel that where you get into a role or a level at your job where you’re making good money, which is fabulous, and yet you feel like you’re drinking to tolerate your life. And 90% of that, I always say, is the drinking. I didn’t realize how much I would be able to cope with life better. And be more optimistic without drinking. And at the same time, once I quit drinking, I see that with other women, you realize that the life you want to live and the life that supports your contentment and happiness and isn’t the life that is in, for example, the corporate world that is truly sucking you dry. I know you went through this too and having the bravery to realize that you are strong enough to step away from that money versus emotional stress is a true trade off that is sometimes not worth it. 

 

I mean, I hear women you know, be like am I just, you know, I’m doing all these things. My life looks good. I make good money. I have a nice house. And yet I’m, you know, not happy and dread going to work in the morning and all these things. And yet, am I supposed to just suck it up for the next 15 years? Is this a dog? And that’s such a limiting belief. And I had it. I can never make this kind of money if I go to a different job. Yes, I hate it and I’m drinking to push down all of this unhappiness, and yet I feel like I’m so terrified of changing things and that really is not true. And if you don’t suck it up for 15 years, you are meant to live a life. You truly are. That is happy and joyful and you can have that. And it is not going to kill you or your family, like you know, I felt like, if I was going to quit my job, we would have to sell our house and that didn’t happen. 

 

I am a Jen Sincero fan.

 

I don’t know if I follower her.

 

Follow her.

 

42:51  

You know, once I quit drinking we have all these amazing Quit Lits and, and BIOS and support. I swear to god her book, You Are A Badass, was huge for me just in changing my perspective. And then when I wanted to leave my corporate job I listened to, I’m an audiobook fan, but I read it to you’re a badass at making money. And again, it really helped me and made me see what was holding me back and that it’s not true and shift my mindset and all that stuff. 

 

Beautiful, because I think Jen keeps it really simple. That’s what I love about her. She doesn’t care which I’m also loving, huge fan. She keeps it really simple. So it’s not like this big, you know, book about money and like, she keeps it real. That’s what I love about her book. I recommend it to people all the time. All the time. 

 

Yeah. And yeah, you’re right. Like it’s life is too short for us to be stuck in those jobs and, you know, hating our lives. And my husband and I just had this conversation like 3 months ago, you know. He moved into another job because we call that his like, just kind of like it was his in-between job, like, after he went from super high stress to like, the slowest pace job that anyone can experience and it just wasn’t fulfilling him that way. And he’s moved into a new job. He’s been there for a year now and he is so happy. He is just so grounded. 

 

And you know, we live. We had to downsize our home when we sold our last house to like, not be in a ton of debt. We still are digging ourselves out a bit, but at the same time, like we are both so happy leaving my corporate job as a banker, and like again, like we’ve respected money and money respects us like, it’s just we have this flow, we have this energy thing going on. It feels so freakin good. And we don’t have that stress. Like I’m not worried my husband’s gonna have a heart attack every night. I’m not when your heart attack Yeah,

 

44:59  

yeah. And also I mean, my husband did the same thing. He, we, met when we were Consultants, when we were young and, and moved out to Seattle, and I got a job at a startup. And he was really not that happy in the corporate world. Like, I’m much more of a gold star girl, but like the pats on the head, so I was pretty comfortable with that. And it kept me there for 20 years. But he was not, you know, and his idea when he went to college was, I’m going to major in Economics. I’m going to, you know, same thing. I’m going to work really hard and then I’m going to retire early and do what I love, which is teaching and Coaching. 

 

And somewhere along the way, he started substitute teaching, he started Coaching baseball and basketball to private school. And he, you know, through conversations, decided to go be a sixth grade teacher and did that for 12 years. He’s now the head of a middle school, but he was so much happier. He was so much happier and I got to tell you, like living with someone who does not hate their job is so much more joyful than any income you can get. Heck, yeah.

 

46:05  

Heck yeah. And that’s exactly right. And, and a lot of people, like a lot of Money Coaches would be like, Oh, you got to make as much money as you can and then invested here and invested there. My Money Coaching is just so much different. And I think it’s because I work with women in recovery that sometimes are just working from the ground up like, No, you’re just sober and you’re just trying to keep it together. But then those layers like we’re always growing, right? We’re always growing and how beautiful is it that you can be happy? Doesn’t mean you have to make the most money in the world. This is about you being happy and comfortable and having a good relationship with money.

 

46:44  

Yeah, and, and also, I do think it’s so important, you know, to the fact that you work with women in recovery and that you’re in recovery yourself because it is so layered. It’s someone that you know, you can go to a financial advisor, and they’ll give you a But you can’t be honest with them. And they don’t get it. I mean, when you quit drinking and you, you or any substance and you give that up, you need to avoid overwhelm. You need to be gentle with yourself to not tread lightly. It’s not that because women who’ve quit drinking or drank a lot, and we’re hung over my god, they’re the most determined women. I know. It takes work to keep your life together, right? When you’re drinking that is hard. Yeah, and yet, you need someone you know, the most important thing is to feel heard and understood and held, and like you’re not a bad person, or you can’t do this work if you’re not honest. So I think it’s a real gift that you have that experience, you share it, and you help women who are in the same place because we’re not bad people. You aren’t you just you know, got addicted to something that’s addictive and it’s so hard. You should be so proud of pulling yourself out of that.

 

47:58  

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that’s what I say to women when they give me a call and just kind of want to talk about it or post something about money because even doing that is really hard, right? So it’s so important for that acknowledgement to go like, Oh my god, good for you. Like, let’s remove this stigma. Let’s talk about it. Let’s make it safe. Let’s make money safe to talk about.

 

48:22  

Well, and I want to give anyone listening to this, like tangible, helpful, simple tools and advice for how to start doing this work. And I know you have it, you have a financial first aid kit. So can you help talk about that? For sure.

 

48:39  

Yeah, I’ll just kind of give a rundown quickly. We talked a lot about when one of my things I think is huge in the Financial First Aid Kit, because it’s one of those things that you want to, you know, mend your money. Let’s Like Put, let’s get this fixed, right. So I’m a huge believer and especially if you have like, issues with credit and stuff credit cards, using a debit card just having one way that you spend your money some people like having just a, you know cash cash works for them just to have it that way but having a debit card or the only one way you spend your money if you have if you’re incurring a ton of debt and that’s something that you want to stop, let’s get rid of the credit cards. Let’s plug that hole Let’s stop charging on our credit cards. Like it kind of becomes to stop the madness right? 

 

I think it’s really important to have some sort of plan so and I know that like how you were saying like, oh my god making a budget you know, it’s something you want to do, but it’s hard to do, but having some sort of plan again, like you can’t if you’re going somewhere you know you have a specific address you need to get to you need to know have a map to get there. So having some sort of plan of even like how much can I spend on groceries this month, or even this week, right? Get down to this week because sometimes a month is really overwhelming for people, right? So if it’s like, how much do I have to spend on groceries this week? How much do I have to spend on gas? I think a good way to do this is I’m a big look in the front, you know, look through the windshield, but sometimes we have to look through our rearview mirror just for a little bit, kind of like how I was talking about your money story and discovering where you came from with money. But how have you spent your money in the past? How much did you spend on groceries last month? How much did you spend on coffee? How much did you spend on eating out? Didn’t when somebody asked me the other day? like should I go back a year? It’s like, Oh, god, no, that sounds super overwhelming. That makes me sweat even thinking about it. 3 months max to go back, right? Just to give you an idea, but really you want to see like, how much do you bring in per month? How much are you paying out for like mortgage rent? You know, like all of your fixed expenses that you have to pay every month. How much do you have leftover? How are you going to do that, Right?

 

51:01  

Yeah. And I wonder if, at this time, because we’re recording this during COVID, during quarantine, during stay at home, does that need to be prior to 3 months? Because I know I have. My life has completely changed in the last three months. I assume it is for everyone like, I used to pay for daycare and childcare and haircut and color. And pedicures and lattes. I mean, you know, in looking for how is this happening for you versus how is this happening to you? With this quarantine, even with a lot of changes and in financial for people it does simplify your life and look at what you truly need and what maybe I don’t think I’m going to go back to all those things. And my husband and I have picnic dates in our backyard with no kids versus going out to dinner, obviously. 

 

Yeah, but as you’re looking at where you’ve spent money, I wonder if looking at, you know, for example, like maybe it’s December is not good because December to February like you have Christmas, or maybe it is, but I’m just thinking out loud that like, March to July. God, it has been a different universe and that’s where a lot of the time. 

 

And yes, thank you for saying that because in this quarantine period, it becomes almost like an emergency spending plan because you don’t want to like who knows, like people start talking about well, and it’s happening for the states in the states is that second wave, right? So it’s like we need to prepare ourselves. So what is necessary right now? Right? Like what’s necessary to spend money on it’s such a good point. And yeah, like once we get back to “normal” life, whatever that’s gonna look like but yeah, there’s been so many people that this quarantine has taught them so much about keeping it simple. 

 

Like, we were spending, people were spending so much money before and now, it’s like oh my goodness, I can actually save money right now because I’m not going out doing all this stuff anymore. Which is beautifying your car. 

 

A huge, huge, yes. So spending plans are actually a lot are like kind of, I wouldn’t say, you know, because I know people are struggling with money so I don’t want to use the word easier, but it’s one of those things that, you know, it’s… it can… we can keep it really simple right now, which is the beauty of it, right? And if you, you know, tracking I think, is really important so you can kind of gauge where you are with money. So, I use a tracking app called money minder online.

 

Every dollar is another one that people resonate with. So, have a look at those. It’s a bit of a, you do have to take the time to set it up. So make sure you have that expectation of yourself. But yeah, make sure that you’re tracking and keeping, having a conscious contact with your money, especially if you have impulsive spending issues, will keep you from you know, if you know that you have to be accountable for that. It’s just like, you start to question, dude, do I need that or do I just want that? Am I trying to fill a need? I carry a journal in my car because I get those emotions, still, right. Where I want to go and buy something and I want to go get a new outfit. I want to go do something. It’s like okay, what’s really going on?

 

Like in our recovery is like what’s really going on? It’s not really that I wanted to drink. It was, I was trying to escape. What are you trying to escape from?

 

54:44  

I love that you gave those practical apps and tips because I’d never heard of any of them. So we will link to those in the show notes because I think just a lot of those practical tips are super helpful. And I say the same thing about drinking with tapping into the actual emotion because a lot of times, you know, someone’s like, I really want to drink right now and I’m like, Okay, why? Well, I just do okay. What do you want to escape from? Or what do you want to enhance? You know, I’m feeling anxious. I’m feeling bored. I’m feeling like I need a treat. I’m feeling like my kids are driving me crazy. 

 

Okay, what’s something else that would heal that emotion or need because the same thing applies to spending, you know, and it and it’s real, but like drinking, spending is just your knee jerk reaction, it’s not actually helping you. And so you know, if you’re trying to heal, worry or stress or marital strife or drama, you know, buying something new is probably not the thing that will actually serve you and part of this is just experimenting and finding new things. 

 

And you know, a book from the library can help you escape a novel, essential oils and a diffuser, not expensive. I bought mine 4 years ago. Still Use it. That, you know, I know you do tapping, which I love. And I did a podcast episode on. So there are lots of things to save, to heal that emotion going for walks with the podcast. And it doesn’t have to be a recovery podcast even though I know you have a podcast too. It’s amazing that we will link to tell us what the name of that is.

 

56:23  

My podcast is called Your Money Your Recovery.

 

56:27  

I love it. And we will link to that as well. Thank you. 

 

One other thing that I wanted to make sure we mentioned is I have an app When I Quit Drinking that I love because a lot of times, you’re like, I have 14 days. I have 30 days. I have, you know, 75 days or 3 years. Like, you know, it’s those days themselves, of course, are important and something to be proud of. 

 

But I have the I’m Done Drinking app and have had it since day one. One of the things I love is that it doesn’t just count days you plug in and this honestly takes 3 minutes, not even the number of bottles of wine or beer or anything else that you consume in a week, say or in a month. I did it by day because I drank every single night. And the cost of it you know, most of us have a go to drink or we can calculate it. You can add in drinks when you go out to eat, or drink and the calorie safe. And what I love is, you know, when I got to 30 days, I saved $550. 

 

I had not ingested which is crazy when you think about how you’re impacting your body and your health. I had not ingested almost 40 bottles of wine because I drank from bottle to bottle and half a night I had saved a million calories. And now 4 and a half years later, I just checked and I have literally saved myself by not poisoning myself $30,000. I mean, Wow! 

 

Looking at it right now. It is 29,500. $61. That, to me, is way more than my 1600 days of not drinking. And it’s been joyful. And I’ve been happy. I mean, we went out to dinner pre, you know, months ago, and my husband would be like, you are the cheapest damn date in a positive way. Like he’s loving me. And I can drive home and not be upset with my kids the next day, and actually pay the babysitter and not overpay because I’m trying to make sure I don’t under pay. And I am having trouble with dollars per hour. I mean, all the things but $550 a month is real. You can save a lot of money towards a kayaking trip with your family in the evening. That’s true joy and digging yourself out of a lot of debt with $30,000 or amazing trips to Greece. I mean, having an app that tells you all the fabulous things about not drinking, in addition to not waking up at 3:00 a.m. feeling like crap about yourself or Not having your eyes be super watery and bloodshot. Like there’s a lot of good in that.

 

59:05  

Beautiful What was it called? Again, I’m done with drinking.

 

59:08  

I’m done drinking, I’m done. And I recommend it to all my clients. I’ll also link to it, of course in the show notes because there are so many benefits to not drinking, but when you look at the money, and I use that money in the beginning, you know, to invest in my recovery, right to invest in helping me not drink, changing my mindsets. I went to the Salt Spring like, I consider that my like, I’m not poisoning myself with money fund. And so that I might look at my app and share it with my husband. I’m like, I’m going to Salt Spring because I’ve saved $3,000. He’s like, okay, I mean, it’s real. It’s real.

 

59:48  

Yes, I love that. And it’s that investing in yourself right like, and how you were saying like, that’s your one thing in the year that really gives you that outlet. I am feeling it this year that we didn’t get to go to the Salt Spring like, that’s my, so many things, but touchdown.

 

1:00:07  

It’s a touchdown.

 

1:00:08  

Oh my goodness, it really is and that I deserve and like yeah I love that you paired it with how much money you saved. And it is possible because yeah, we spent a ton of money on drinking. Oh my god, our stories are so similar because like tha…t that amount of wine that you were drinking is exactly like mine. So when I think about that 30,000, I’m like, Oh my God, that’s my number 2, let alone like add a couple years away.

 

1:00:33  

You can… you can go back, you can download it today. You just put in your date, how much you were drinking ,and basically, you know, everybody has their “go to”. I was like, shit Chateau St. Michel serraj which was like $14 a bottle because you know, it couldn’t be 30 like, That’s insane. But it wasn’t, you know, super cheap either. And you know, just the bottles not ingested in my body and not only the way I feel, but like the dollars. I’m saving and realizing that I can spend that money on things that actually make me feel good, including savings. So I don’t have the anxiety I was gonna have all day.

 

1:01:17  

And that’s what some women really struggle with, especially if we’re mothers and have children. One message I hear a lot is, when am I going to have enough? When am I going to feel safe? You know, that “enough” feeling and not having that anxiety piece that’s so beautiful. And to tie it back to how much we can say when we stopped drinking.

 

1:01:36  

Yeah, yeah, absolutely love. Is there anything else you want to share? Before we end this podcast that you want to leave women with?

 

1:01:46  

I think one of the biggest things is my message of the fact that you’re not alone. I think that’s one of my biggest things that so many people do, so many women in recovery struggle with the same exact thing and it is so important for us to talk about it. 

 

I have a free Facebook group called Your Money Your Recovery that is just exactly us, just talking about money. I asked you, do you have any, you know, money goals this week? Who achieved their money goals this week? What are you grateful for with money? You know, because that gratitude piece with money is really big for me. So you’re not alone? You are absolutely not alone, edited as possible to feel happy and healthy in your heart and your mind with money.

 

1:02:35  

And how can people I love that you mentioned and we will absolutely link to your Facebook group, your podcast, which is amazing. And your website, but in what ways do you work with women who might want to do a group course with you or one on one coaching? I know you do that as well?

 

1:02:55  

Yes, definitely. So, I do 1-on-1 Coaching. I don’t have my exact date, but it is going to be mid September, I’m launching my first Digital Course. It’s going to be called Your Money, Your Recovery: The Foundation’s Course. And with that, it’s going to take you from top to bottom to my coaching work at your own pace while having access to me in a Facebook group. And then I think my next group coaching probably won’t be until November just because I just started one last week. 

 

So yes, it’s, just check my website. It has all my information in regards to what’s coming up next, and I do a lot of free workshops, that sort of thing. But yeah, my podcast.

 

1:03:40  

And what is your website? Just if someone wants to go there right now?

 

1:03:44  

Yeah, It’s lindaparmar.com

 

1:03:49  

pari. Yeah, thank you so much for coming on this podcast. I feel like we’ve gone through so many real tangible tips that can help and resources links and I know lots of women are feeling this right now. And hopefully we’ll take the first step of, you know, digging into this a little bit and knowing it’s not your fault and knowing that you know, small steps do make a huge difference and will lead you to a life that’s happier.

 

1:04:19  

Absolutely. Thank you for having me and, and just again, the financial first aid kit. I have a link to that on my website. It goes into detail of what to have in your kit, how to get it and I also recorded a podcast episode specifically on it as well that was linked in the the freebie on my website there if anybody’s interested. 

 

1:04:39

  

When did you free your financial first aid kit? It is free. 

 

Okay, amazing. 

 

Yeah. Amazing. All right. Thank you, Linda.