Hi there. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is William Porter. He’s the author of alcohol explained and alcohol explained to. And I know that some friends of mine and clients of mine have said that this book really helped them. It dives deep into how alcohol works in the body. And it’s delivered in a very realistic and common sense way. So William, welcome. Hi, thanks for inviting me. Oh, you’re so welcome. I was excited that you were able to come on the podcast. Excellent. Thank you. And I know we talked about a couple different topics that we wanted to dive into today. And we’re going to talk about number one, why you drink more than you want to. And the idea of moderation. And that’s something that every woman I know, including myself, spent a lot of time and effort trying to figure out. And I love William because we’re also going to talk about sort of debunking that concept that alcohol is good in small quantities. And it’s only bad for you if you can’t moderate. And alcohol is fine for people who can moderate. And we’re going to talk about why that’s not actually true. And also why addiction is a learning process. So I’m excited to dive into all of that. 

02:47

Excellent, good. That’s gonna cover quite a few topics. But yeah, that should be a good good talk.

Casey McGuire Davidson 02:53

Yeah, because there is so much in each of them. And why don’t we start with why we drink more than we want to because I don’t think there’s any woman or man who might be listening to this, who hasn’t said, I just need to stop after two drinks, I need to drink water in between etc, etc.

03:15

Yep. So the the starting point there, that there’s a few factors involved. There’s the chemistry, the physiology and the psychology. But the best place to start, I think with alcohol is with the chemical and the physiological side of things. So alcohol is is a sedative, it’s a chemical depressant. And when I’m using the word depressant, I’m using it in its in its chemical sense here. So what I’m referring to is something that decreases or inhibits nerve activity. So that’s why drinking tends to make us feel more relaxed. The problem is that the human brain is reactive. So when you take something like alcohol, which is a sedative, it actually reacts to it. It does it in several different ways. And you’ve probably heard people talking about GABA and GABA receptors and cortisol and all this kind of stuff. So on a chemical level, it’s quite intricate and not fully understood. But I think what we need for the purposes of this, I think, how I look at it is the human brain essentially works by way of something called homeostasis, which is a very delicate chemical balance. So the human brain creates an excretes its own drugs, so things like cortisol, adrenaline, and endorphins, all of these different things. And as I say, tries to maintain something called homeostasis, which is a delicate chemical balance. Now the problem is because alcohol is a sedative, your brain reacts to it. And as I say, it’s a complicated reaction. But what it amounts to is it becomes overly sensitive, so that it can still work under the sedating effects of the alcohol. Now, that’s all well and good. That’s a natural and healthy react. Which is how your body responds to a poison to try and make you survive, it’s trying to help you through it. But the problem is when the alcohol wears off, you’re left with that over sensitization for a period. And that’s why people suffer from what’s colloquially known as anxiety, that anxious feeling you get after you’ve been drinking. Yeah, that’s essentially what it is. So it says it’s a, it’s a very, it’s a not fully understood and very complicated chemical process. But what it amounts to, essentially is, for every action, there’s an equal and opposite reaction. So whatever relaxing effects you get from alcohol, when it wears off, there’s a corresponding feeling of anxiety. Some people, it helps to think of it as some time to talk about if you’re in a vehicle and you’re stressed, or you’re driving along the road, and you’re trying to maintain a steady say, 30 mile an hour pace. So you’ve got your foot over a certain level on the accelerator, and you’re going along happily, at 30 miles an hour, if you suddenly hit, for example, a load of mud, the vehicles slow down, so you have to push your foot harder down on the accelerator to maintain that 30 mile an hour speed. Now the problem is when the mud ends, and you go back onto concrete, the cost shoots ahead too fast. And that’s essentially what your brain is doing, it’s being slowed down by the alcohol. So it’s making everything a lot more sensitive, so that you can work under the effects of the alcohol. And then when the alcohol wears off, that’s when you become very overly anxious. It’s, it differs for different people. And it differs for how for how much you’re drinking. But it’s usually for most people, it’s like, I don’t know, if you’ve ever drank too much coffee, or too much caffeine, you feel kind of anxious and unpleasant and out of sorts, and you can’t relax and you don’t really know what to do with yourself. And that’s also why a lot of drinkers wake up in the middle of the night when they’ve been drinking and can’t get back to sleep that’s directly related to the alcohol.

Casey McGuire Davidson 06:54

And so when you wake up at 2am, or 3am, because I went through it that pretty much every night, which sucked. It’s related to your your brain basically being slowed down, and then the alcohol wearing off and it being in sort of overdrive. Is that right? Exactly.

07:15

Yeah, that’s exactly what it is. It’s the equivalent of drinking, this is what I often say to people, because people often they they live under the myth that alcohol actually helps them sleep, but it does the opposite. So say for example, you need eight hours sleep and you go to bed at 11 o’clock at night, and wake up at seven o’clock in the morning. And that’s you functioning at your best. Drinking alcohol is the equivalent of setting an alarm for three o’clock in the morning. And getting up and drinking a few drugs of really strong coffee so that you can’t go back to sleep. That’s what we do when we drink alcohol. That’s that’s the equivalent effect it has on us.

Casey McGuire Davidson 07:51

That’s so interesting, because I remember that the worst feeling was waking up at 3am a feeling like garbage, right at a waking up on the couch. That was me. But also laying there and being like, Oh my fucking god, if I don’t fall asleep, I am not going to be able to function tomorrow. And having that sort of racing mind and just not falling asleep till like two hours later.

08:17

Yet, that’s exactly what it is. And it’s that horrific thing. Because you’re physically exhausted, you are really, really tired that your brain you cannot get back to sleep because of the chemical after effects of the alcohol. And that’s one of the most terrible things actually that regular drinkers do that they’re constantly depriving themselves of sleep every single night.

Casey McGuire Davidson 08:39

Yeah, and No wonder you’re just dragging and exhausted in life.

08:44

Yeah, exactly. It’s that horrible mix. Most people can deal with being anxious and most people can be deal with being tired. It’s an unnatural state to be both because usually in nature, you’re either tired, or you’re anxious. It’s only when we introduce foreign drugs, for example, alcohol, that we we somehow managed to do both at the same time, we have the anxiety and the exhaustion at the same time.

Casey McGuire Davidson 09:10

And I’m loving your analogies because I have never heard the one about a car driving through mud, but it makes complete and total sense to me in terms of slowing down your brain and then trying to keep the same speed and coming out of it way too fast. 

09:27

Yeah, exactly. I mean that that’s, I mean, as I say, it’s it is a quite a complicated process. But I don’t know for me personally, when people start talking about GABA reactors and cortisol and all the rest of it, I kind of you know, I stopped my eyes start to glaze over a bit.

Casey McGuire Davidson 09:45

Like I kind of and this is gonna sound bad, like pretend to understand the gavel. Yeah. I sort of struggled to relate to it. That’s the way that other people if you’re listening to talk about it.

09:59

It’s just the terms are Think of it in because I mean, I understand it in those terms. And I kind of relate to it in those terms. And I think a lot of other people do as well, I think it helps them to, that’s when they think, Oh, actually, that makes sense. And that’s why I wake up at, you know, 330 in the morning, or when when you think about

Casey McGuire Davidson 10:13

like, Oh, I’m so tired. You know, people think, okay, the the alcohol gives you that jolt of energy right to get through. For a lot of women, it’s the second shift. And I know you’re, you’re a father of young kids. So I shouldn’t say that that’s sexist. But you know, like, when you come home from work, and you still have a lot of stuff to do, but the concept of, I’m going to set my alarm for 3am. That’s what I’m essentially doing. By taking a drink. That helps. But I also know when you’re in it, you have a million reasons why you don’t you don’t want to drink or you shouldn’t drink or you know everything and yet you still do it, right?

10:55

Yeah, in the short term, it is a difficult cycle to get out of, apart from a myriad of other reasons. But for example, sleep is a classic one, because although alcohol really affects your sleep later in the night, if you’re drinking regularly, so for everybody, when the end of the day comes and they start to wind down to bed, your brain jumps in and it starts closing things down and relaxing things so that you can drift off to sleep. Now, when you drink alcohol regularly, the alcohol is doing that job for your brain, your brain doesn’t need to do it, it relies on the alcohol to do it. So after a few days or weeks of drinking regularly, your brain stops going through that natural winding down process, because it just relies on the alcohol to do it. So when you stop drinking, you need to go through three or four days, it differs for different people, some people it’s just a day or two, some it’s a bit longer, where you find it really hard to sleep. And all it is is your brain has stopped going through that winding down process because it’s reliant on the alcohol. And when the alcohol is cut out, it takes a few days for your brain to realize is no longer alcohol. So it needs to go through that process itself. So it’s fairly straightforward. It’s quite short term. But the drinker doesn’t realize it that way. All they know is when they drink, they can go to sleep. And on the odd occasion, they try and stop or cut down. They can’t sleep at all. So that kind of feeds into this myth that alcohol is actually helps you sleep well. And in fact, it does completely the opposite. 

If you’re listening to this episode and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit. The Sobriety Starter Kit is an online self study, sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step-by-step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one-on-one coaching. And The Sobriety Starter Kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it, when it fits into your schedule.  You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time. This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step-by-step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life. You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better, you’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course.

Yeah. And I, for me, it was sort of around day nine, when I finally got my first really good night’s sleep. And I don’t know, you said it’s a short period of time. Is that kind of common for everyone? Or do people sleep better earlier,

12:47

it does differ for different people. Now, if you’re a regulatory, so binge drinkers won’t have that they’ll have the after effects of the alcohol. And if they’ve been drinking very heavily, that over sensitization might last for a day or two. So they’ll actually find it hard to sleep, because there’s still got the after effects of that almost like that. What is equivalent to a massive caffeine here. Now, if you’re drinking regularly, it’s a slightly different reason. It’s because your brain is not going through that winding down process. So it does differ from person to person, depending on what your pattern of drinking is. But it does go fairly quickly. And of course, the problem with sleep as well, it’s not just a question of stop sleeping now and then go to sleep immediately. because firstly, there’s the process I’ve just talked about that. Secondly, if you’ve been drinking fairly regularly for a few years, or even decades, that will impact a sleep is like a habit. So even if you’re not drinking, if you set the alarm for three o’clock every night and get up and go to the toilet, go back to bed, and then stop setting the alarm for the next two or three nights. You’re in the habit of that. So you will wake up at that time. So when you quit drinking, you need the chemical balance to go back to normal in your brain. But then you need to get back into a normal sleeping pattern. And of course, for most people, if they’re drinking fairly regularly, they won’t have had a good night’s sleep in all the years or decades they’ve been sleeping.

Casey McGuire Davidson 14:11

Oh my god knows me. Man. I was a drinker for years and years. Yeah,

14:17

it’s astounding the effects it has on you. And then of course it takes a while for you to then catch up on the lost sleep. So in fact, if you’re quitting drinking now day one, you’re not going to be waking up tomorrow feeling excellent. is gonna take a few weeks to get there. But boy, is it worth it.

Casey McGuire Davidson 14:36

Yeah, absolutely. It’s definitely worth it. I there if you’re listening to this episode and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again. I want to invite you to take a look at my new on demand coaching course the sobriety starts kit. The sobriety starter kit is an online self study sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step by step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one on one coaching. And the sobriety starter kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it. And when it fits into your schedule, you don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time. This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step by step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol, the course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking, from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life, you will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better, you’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach, you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www dot sobriety starter kit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course. Okay, so why do we drink more than we want to? Why do we have trouble moderating,

16:50

right? So So this is one of these. So we’ve now got this sort of chemical reaction in our minds at the moment. So now we see alcohol is something that has a withdrawal when that drink wears off, the natural tendency is to take another one. Now what a lot of people will then say is okay, yeah, that makes sense to me, I understand that when anybody and this isn’t just you know, heavy drinkers or so called alcoholics or whatever. Everyone has alcohol withdrawal. And what I’m talking about with withdrawal is that chemical imbalance that causes an unpleasant feeling when the initial dose of the drug wears off. And more importantly, the quickest way to get rid of that is to have another dose of the drug. Because if you’re, you know, if you think about if you’re over sensitized because your brains geared up to be working on the stating effects of the alcohol and the alcohol isn’t there, people are cold back in, you immediately feel lots better. So every one has this unpleasant feeling. But if you are someone, for example, who has never drunk before, and it’s just having a glass of wine once a week, or once a month, or a glass of champagne at a wedding, they will experience that unpleasant feeling. But it will be really minor Firstly, because your brain becomes more proficient at countering the alcohol. So the more you drink for the more pronounced that withdrawal becomes. But much more importantly, we’re now moving on to the psychological factors. So if someone has never been what we will call it addicted, but what addiction actually means is you associate that unpleasant feeling with having another drink to get rid of it. Okay, so if you take someone who can take or leave alcohol, all that means is when the alcohol wears off, yes, there is an unpleasant feeling there. But they just get on with the day, it wouldn’t dawn on them to take another drink to get rid of it. It wears off, and either they’re asleep, or they might have one with lunch and then walk away. And they do feel slightly out of sorts from it, that it just never dawns on them to have another one. But what we learn over the years and years of drinking is that a drink wears off, it leaves a slightly unpleasant feeling. And when we have another drink, it removes that unpleasant feeling. And so as the years go by, what we learn mainly on a subconscious level, is that when a drink finishes, an unpleasant feeling starts to build up, and we need another one to get rid of it. Now, that’s learned behavior. And when you learn that every alcoholic drink, when it wears off creates the desire for the next one. And that’s why people find it hard to moderate when they reach that stage. Because when you reach that stage, it doesn’t matter how determined you are. Let’s say for example, you’ve got someone who is used to drinking X amount and they decided too much and they’re going to now stop or cut down or whatever it is. So they have one glass of wine or one beer, it wears off and it leaves an unpleasant feeling and that is the trigger for their subconscious to kick in and say I want another drink. So if you’re approaching the situation by saying look Take a completely average everyday situation coming from work, sit down in front of the TV and you think I want a drink to help me relax. Okay, so you need a chemical to help you relax into the evening. Now, after 15 minutes, that chemical is worn off. So you started off by saying I’m not content, how I am, I need a chemical to make me feel more relaxed when I first started, that’s going to wear off anyway, and you’ll be right back where you started. But actually, then when we factor in, it doesn’t just leave, the feeling doesn’t just leave leaving you as you were before, it leaves off with an intensified feeling of anxiety. So the natural tendency is to keep on drinking. And that’s why it becomes so difficult for people. 

to moderate, there’s an add on to that as well, in that the brain becomes used to the amount you drink. So say for example, every evening, you sit down and you drink a bottle of wine, that first glass of wine is the sending a message to your brain saying over the next three or four hours, you can expect a bottle of wines worth of alcohol to go inside you. If you’re doing that for several weeks, months and years. That’s what your brain is conditioned to do. So if you then say to yourself, you know what, I’ll just have one glass, your brain hasn’t caught up yet. So it’s over sensitizing to the tune of a bottle and you’re only drinking a glass. So you’re actually worse off than had you not have to drink at all, because you’ve got all the additional anxiety. And that’s why a lot of the time, you have people who stopped drinking can’t sleep, it’s even worse, if you have one. If you’re used to having two or three and you just have one, it’s even worse because you get that coffee that over sensitization. That caffeine here, right at the start of the evening.

Casey McGuire Davidson 21:49

And you mentioned when it wears off, you have that sort of anxiety or or agitated feeling and you want another drink to come back, you said 15 minutes is that literally how long it takes for the glass to wear off?

22:04

No, it does differ from person to person. But the interesting thing, one of the things with alcohol is we drink it, which is very unusual for a drug. Most drugs, there’s four ways you can get you can consume a drug. So the effects of a drug have felt when they enter it when it enters into our bloodstream. Okay, there’s four ways you can get a drug into your bloodstream. The first one is to inject it into your vein. So that’s directly into the bloodstream. The second one is to inhale it like cigarettes, or you know, hash or whatever else people inhale. So what it does, it goes into your lungs, and it passes from there directly into the bloodstream. So again, it hits your bloodstream really quickly. The third way is to snort it. So things like cocaine people snort it, it goes up into capillaries in your nose, and then hits the bloodstream again. So these three methods, it hits your bloodstream really, really quickly. with alcohol, it has to go into your stomach and into your small intestine before it’s absorbed into the bloodstream. So it’s slightly unusual and different from all the other drugs, in that it takes that much longer for it to enter your bloodstream. And of course, how quickly it enters your bloodstream will depend on a lot of things, not least of which how full your stomach is at the time. So that’s why when people drink on an empty stomach, it hits them a lot harder. And a lot of people me included used to much prefer the drinks before the meal to afterwards because we feel the effects of them far quicker, and they’re far more noticeable. So it does very much differ from person to person.

Casey McGuire Davidson 23:43

That makes a lot of sense.

23:44

Yeah, yeah. So we know just probably worth mentioning there. That’s one of the reasons why people take so long to become addicted to alcohol. Because I mentioned slightly the subconscious, a lot of addiction takes place place in our subconscious mind. And it’s when our subconscious links the taking of the drug with the relieving of the withdrawal. Now for cigarette smoking, that’s a very obvious thing.  

You know, you as you’re smoking a cigarette, you get that massive nicotine here, then the nicotine wears off leaving a withdrawal you have another cigarette to replace it. So very quickly, your brain identifies smoking as the way that you relieve the withdrawal. But because you’ve got this 1520 minute, half an hour, whatever it is time difference between drinking a drink and actually hitting you. It takes years and years for your subconscious to actually pick up on the link. And that’s one of the that’s the main reason why alcohol takes far longer to become addicted to is nothing to do with the chemical effect of it is purely to do with the fact that we drink it rather than inhale it or inject it.

Casey McGuire Davidson 24:49

That’s really interesting. And so some people will say to me, but I don’t drink in the morning, right and i also like I didn’t drink in the morning unless it was a sign And I was at brunch and then it was a mimosa like, you know, caveat caveat. But like, normally wake up feel like total garbage, get my kids ready go to work, drive in, etc. Come home at six and I’m sure at four o’clock I was doing you know, all morning was I’m not going to drink late afternoon was well, like, it’s been a hard day, whatever it is extended hours tomorrow to stop isn’t there? Exactly. But, you know, you go that whole time in withdrawal, especially if you’re drinking a bottle of wine a night like I was, and you aren’t drinking then to, you know, get through the withdrawal. So what’s up there if people are like, Yeah, but I, but I don’t drink during the day, I just drink in the evenings kind of thing.

25:49

So this is this brings us on to another psychological factor that’s involved here, which is cravings. So craving is a fairly People often think about cravings, and they think it’s something that you know, like, it’s I don’t know, like a meteor falling out the sky. There’s nothing you can do about it, it just hits you. But actually a craving is a thought process we go through. And it’s a several stage thought presser, the first thing is the thought of an alcoholic drink enters your head. That doesn’t cause the craving, what causes the craving, it’s what we do with that thought. If we start thinking about how nice it would be to have a drink, and start entertaining the possibility of having one, that’s when the craving intensifies. So like if you’re trying to die or something, you know you you’re probably okay. But when you start thinking about food, it becomes unbearable, and the more you torture yourself with thought of it, the harder it is. And if you actually sit down with your favorite food in front of you, it becomes even more unbearable. So the tortures made up one of fantasizing and anticipating it, but secondly, allowing the possibility about actually to enter your mind. Okay, so addiction isn’t just the withdrawal. It’s the psychological craving that goes with it. Now, it helps sometimes to relate it to smoking, imagine if you’ve got a fairly heavy smoker. So say you’ve got someone who’s smoking 60 cigarettes a day, and they’ve been smoking for a couple of decades. So they’re clearly addicted to smoking, right? Let’s say they go to a friend’s house, they’re sitting in the garden so they can smoke freely, there’s a few drinks being poured, how long do you reckon it would be before they were calling up the wall for a cigarette, it would be seconds, you know that they couldn’t go a few minutes without a cigarette. And if they couldn’t have one, they’d be intensely miserable. Okay. But these same smokers will go to bed at night, and sleep 678 hours without having a cigarette. And these days, a lot of the time people will even wake up in the morning, a lot of smokers these days don’t smoke at home. So they’ll wait till they’re in the car going to work or whatever, before they have that first cigarette. So not only if they got seven or eight hours at night time, they will then get up and lost another hour in the morning or so they get ready for work before they leave for the office or whatever, and then have that cigarette. Okay. So that person is heavily addict it. But the reason they can go for that period of time, is because they’re not craving they may be thinking of not for example, when they wake up, they may be really looking forward to that cigarette. But they know they can have it in a bit so they can they can stand it. That’s all really we do with drinking. Because drinking is God. As opposed to other drugs. It’s in many ways unique in that we have so many fixed barriers with it. You know, if someone smokes, it’s perfectly natural for them to light up first thing in the morning. But for string Kickers, if you wake up and start drinking, you’ve got a serious problem. So most people, we have these very clear barriers, conscious or subconscious that we don’t drink in certain situations. So, for example, you wake up in the morning, yes, you will be feeling tired and anxious, you’ll have the alcohol withdrawal, and you’ll be feeling unpleasant because of it. And actually, if you woke up and pour yourself a glass of wine and had it first thing in the morning, you feel a whole world better that the fact of the matter is you’re not thinking along those lines, because you do not drink in the morning. So you’re not torturing yourself with the thought of a glass of wine. What you’re thinking about is getting up getting the kids up, am I going to get to work I’ve got this report to do. I’ve got that to do all the stresses and strains and then you go to work and you’re working away. All through that day, that withdrawal is there and if at any point you stopped and had a drink, you will feel loads better for it by relieving the withdrawal. But you don’t do it because you don’t drink in the morning and you don’t drink at work. What that means is you’re not torturing yourself with the thought of it. But come four o’clock when the end is in sight and the possibility of having a glass of wine there. That’s when it’s incredibly difficult. Because that’s when you have the two parts of addiction, not only the withdrawal, but also the craving, because you’re allowing yourself at that point to drink.

Casey McGuire Davidson 30:10

Yeah. And it’s also socially acceptable right to drink after work, or it’s it’s common, there’s usually alcohol around as opposed to in the morning. That’s clearly you know, it’s sort of like, what? When you’re pregnant, there is a social pressure not to drink.

30:27

Yeah, walks around. Yeah, pletely. At the beginning of the day, it’s completely unacceptable to drink. But at the eve of, you know, the end of day at the evening, everyone’s wondered if there’s something wrong with you, because you’re not drinking. Yeah, just completely reversed. It’s purely arbitrary to do with, I mean, mainly because alcohol is intoxicating. So, if you’re drinking in the morning, by the end of the day, you’re completely intoxicated. So you have trouble

Casey McGuire Davidson 30:50

functioning and Exactly. Your tasks. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. One question I had, and I actually, I watched a Facebook Live that you did in March, and I actually loved it, because you were you were, you were kind of pissed. And I really enjoyed that. Because I was like, Oh, that’s so blood imperfect. And you were going on about you. There, it’s been some comments on someone’s post about, about drinking being, you know, quote, unquote, not bad. And you went through like someone commented, you cannot define alcohol as good or bad, a little bit can benefit you, or wine consumed in moderation and is fine in excess. Like anything else. It’s dangerous. The key is moderation. Also, the idea that like, we meaning people who drink problematically can’t drink, because we can’t moderate but for others who can, it isn’t a problem. And you were like that is you know, an American speak total bullshit. And let me tell you why. So, as I’m saying that, what is your reaction to those comments, because they’re pretty common.

32:07

They all common, there’s a few points to say there. I hope I remember to talk about all of them. The first one is that kind of belief that a little bit of alcohol is good for you. It’s an addictive drug, okay? People can take it or leave it because they’re not addicted to it. But what if you take enough of it for a long enough period of time you become addicted to it? Okay? It really is that simple. People don’t say, you know, a little isn’t, is fine for you, if you’re talking about heroin, or cigarette smoking or something, and exactly the same principles apply. People have this belief, and we’re bombarded with it constantly about things like red wine being good for you. Okay, so it’s very, very simple, but a lot of people struggle with the concepts. Alcohol is a carcinogen, okay, it’s a class one carcinogen in this, the who have classified all these different substances into different classes. It’s class one, along with cigarette smoking, and asbestos. I take flak, it has no health benefits at all. Right? wine, for example, let’s take red wine, because that’s the thing we hear most about. It’s a mix of primarily two things, grape juice, and alcohol. Okay, we humans are designed to eat fruit. And there’s a lot of minerals and vitamins in fruit that are very good for us, for example, red, red grapes. So when you take wine, you’ve got red grape juice, which is good for you, and alcohol, which is incredibly bad for you. So when you read these studies, that red wine is good for you, they always point to things that are in the grapes. It’s never the alcohol, the alcohol is a is a carcinogen, there’s nothing good about it. And having red wine for health is like having a cigarette and an apple and saying, it’s got vitamin C in it, it’s good for me, okay, you’re taking a good thing and a bad thing and mixing it together. What you often hear is a lot of studies that say people who drink a lot die younger, that people who are alcohol free, die younger, and this is happy middle ground, with people who just have one or two glasses a couple of times a week, and they have a much longer life expectancy. Okay? That again, is just nonsense.

The reason that people who don’t drink at all tend to have a shorter life expectancy is very simply because in this society, it’s normal to drink. Okay, most people drink. There’s a growing number of people like you and me who make a lifestyle choice not to drink. But a few years ago, this is coming more and more pronounced now, but up to a few years ago, those numbers were quite small. So when you look at the cohort of the population that don’t drink, there’s a few reasons for it. One is that they’ve already been chronically addicted for Alcohol for a number of years to is that they’re in the very lowest socio economic structure of society. So they literally they’re on the poverty line, they cannot afford to drink. Another class of people or people in prison are cold, not very readily available in prison. And the fourth people in that cohort are people with other underlying health conditions. So they’re very seriously ill, which is why they don’t drink. Okay, yeah, that skews the figures. Okay, the reason people in that cohort die young is for all of those factors, not surprise, surprise, because they’re not regularly imbibing a carcinogen. Yeah, okay. The other thing that alcohol does, and this is why this is a thing common amongst all drug addicts, is that they have a perception that if they can take less of the drug they’re taking, they get all the good with none of the bad. Okay? It’s not possible, it’s not possible with other drugs, and it’s not possible with alcohol. So even if you were able to just have one glass of wine, once a week, that glass of wine would still wear off leaving a corresponding feeling of anxiety, it would still ruin your sleep. So the more you drink, the worse your sleep is. But even one small glass of wine interrupts your natural sleeping pattern,  there’s no escape from it, it’s not possible to have the good without the bad with alcohol or any other drug, you take less of it, you have less of the good and less of the bad at the same time. Yeah, the other thing alcohol does with you, with everyone, and this happens whether you have a massive amount or a small amount, it increases your heart rate. So you sometimes see these mean saying a glass of wine increases your heart rate, like it’s a good thing. The biggest killer with alcohol is not liver disease, which most people think it’s cardiovascular. And the reason for that is it accelerates your heart rate without any associated physical activity. Now, physical fitness is a lot to do with blood composition. So when you’re using your muscles, your muscles need oxygen and other nutrients and oxygen and other nutrients gets to them by way of the red blood cells. So when you’re constantly using your muscles, your blood, your heart has to pump faster to get the oxygen around your body. When you exercise regularly, there’s a few changes in the blood one, the blood cells are replaced more quickly, which means they’re younger and younger blood cells carry more oxygen. And secondly, there’s a greater concentration of them. So the blood cells will clump together more so that every pump of the heart gets a higher number of blood cells and consequently, more oxygen. And so that’s why people who are fitter have a lower resting heart rate, it’s the blood composition that changes. Now, the opposite is also true. If you’re increasing your heart rate, without physical activity, you’re getting too much oxygen to the blood to the muscle, so the blood goes the other way it starts to thin out. And that’s why there’s this massive correlation between drinking and heart disease. It’s because when you drink alcohol, even one drink, you’re accelerating your heart rate without associated physical movement. And that’s the role it’s actually the opposite of exercising is eroding your fitness.

Casey McGuire Davidson 38:26

That’s really interesting, right? Because it increases your heart rate like a stimulant. But it’s also a depressant, right? It’s sort of how does that work?

38:35

That’s that’s evidence of your body’s physiological reaction to it. So when you drink a glass of alcohol, your body’s already kicking in with all those stimulants and cortisol to try and counter the alcohol. That’s now the mass. And now Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so the mode kicks in. So the accelerators going down. This is where it gets a bit more complicated. With heart rate, it will go up, but it never, you have to take a lot of drugs for your heart rate to drop massively, because normally your heart has no reason to drop. So although you can take drugs to increase it, mostly the drugs won’t decrease it because it has all like a failsafe cut off. So it tends to go up without going down. Yeah, so when you’re drinking this stimulant effect, or your body’s reaction to it kicks in almost immediately. But what you normally find is when you’re drinking, your heart rate will go up a bit. And when the alcohol wears off, it goes through the roof. That’s why when people wake up at three, four in the morning, they can really feel their heart beating fast. Yeah, that’s the that’s the effect of that. That the other thing there is with alcohol, you know, one on one is good for you. Even one accelerates your heart right now, the other thing apart from killing you off with a massive heart attack in your early 50s. The other thing it does, it affects you here and now. Because when your heart rate increases, your body tells you to slow down and sit down. That’s just a simple failsafe method. Isn’t the faster your hearts going, the more you want to sit down and rest, which is why when you’re trying to get fit is so much hard work, because your body is constantly saying, I don’t like this stop. Okay? So when you drink wine or beer or whatever and your heart rate increases, it makes you feel lethargic. It robs you of energy. So not only does it destroy your sleep, but the increased heart rate actually makes you feel even more tired and not you just want to sit down all the time.

Casey McGuire Davidson 40:26

That’s interesting. And so when people say you can’t define alcohol is good or bad. You’re like that. Crap is bad. It’s just that it’s bad. And it’s really bad, depending on how much you consume.

40:41

Yeah, I think the problem is people, everyone is very defensive of their drug of choice. Okay, they want to keep taking it. So they justify it till they’re blue in the face. Yeah. And that’s why because, you know, what is it 87% or something of that population drink? So you’ve got loads and loads of people all trying to justify their drinking. So they say, Oh, it’s good for me. It doesn’t you know, it doesn’t doesn’t hurt me, I only drink a beer. I only drink in the evenings, blah, blah, blah. And it’s just all these basically lies. They’re telling themselves to try and justify why they’re continuing to do something that frankly, most people these days know, in their heart of heart isn’t doing them any favors.

Casey McGuire Davidson 41:20

Yeah. Yeah. And it’s, you know, it’s you justify it because it is addictive. And it’s so socially, it’s like the shorthand between adults because everybody’s kind of protective of it. And we’ve been up to so much that, you know, even health professionals are bought into, hey, don’t take this away. I need this. I want this. You know, nothing to see here. Let’s move on.

41:48

Yeah, no, absolutely. I heard of someone the other day who went to their doctor, and she was drinking two bottles of wine a night so so off, you know, a substantial amount of drink. And she told

Casey McGuire Davidson 41:59

her doctor that I thought everyone cut that down two, or three glasses of wine a couple times a week, like you’re not supposed to give the real number though. So

42:09

she told her doctor, she was drinking, you know, a couple bottles of wine. And she wanted to stop. What did he suggest? And he said, don’t worry about that. I drink more than that. No way. That’s, that’s what we’re faced with in society, dude. So to me, it’s just it’s not, people are just not interested in stopping. And that’s one of the things where I got so animated about this whole thing is because that kind of view that we who have quit drinking all the damaged ones. That’s just not how I see it. bs, most people, the easy choice is to keep drinking, that’s what people want to do. They don’t want to have to admit that their little friend isn’t a friend at all that is destroying them. They might not be chronically addicted to it, they may only drink once a week or twice a week or in the evenings or whatever. But no matter how small amount they’re drinking, it’s not doing them any good at all. And it takes courage and imagination, to think you know what, I’m going to stop doing this. And this is what sort of irritating me with those comments is, for me, even someone who can’t quit and can’t get past day one, has got more  imagination and courage than the 87% of the people who can’t even bear the thought of attempting to quit. So someone who has said, You know what, this isn’t working for me. I don’t care what everyone else is doing. This is not right. And I want to stop it. They aren’t the damaged ones. They’re the ones with the courage and imagination. And it doesn’t matter to me whether they’re succeeding or not, they’ve already they’re already a step ahead of the pack. Yeah, I realizing something’s wrong.

Casey McGuire Davidson 43:52

I mean, it is seriously so brave to try to break away from this, when so much of society is pressuring you in the opposite direction. And that’s why I think it’s so awesome. That you know, you wrote this book, it’s one of the reasons I started this podcast, to just start talking about it a little bit more so that people who are like, yikes, this isn’t working for me, but everybody I knows drinks to be like, actually, there is an entire universe of women and men out there who have decided to go alcohol free, and aren’t necessarily adopting any kind of a label other than this shit is bad for you and I’m trying to live a healthier life. And that that is a legitimate choice to be proud of.

44:40

Yeah, for me, it’s about quality of life. Yeah, simple as that. It’s just, there is no comparison to life as a drinker compared to not drinking and take something as simple as sleep. So now I’ve mentioned sleep a few times. It probably helps just to go into a bit more detail. People think Sleep is just close your eyes go unconscious for a few hours, and then you open them and you’re good to go. It doesn’t work like that sleep is all about going through different cycles.

There’s a few different cycles of sleep. There’s something called Deep sleep, which as you would expect, you’re very deeply asleep, very deeply unconscious, very unresponsive. But at the other end of the scale, there’s something called REM sleep. Now, it’s a very interesting thing REM sleep, that’s where we dream. And when they’ve put sensors on people and monitored them in REM sleep, their brain lights up almost as if they’re fully awake.

Now, there’s a lot about REM sleep, we don’t understand that human beings. But what we do know is it’s absolutely crucial. They’ve done experiments with rats, where they’ve stopped them of REM sleep, and they’ve been dead within a few weeks. And it’s really crucial part of sleep. Now the problem is so so that’s the really, the thing you need to take away is that sleep isn’t about just going unconscious, it’s about different sleep cycles. And the main differentiating factor in the sleep cycles is how deeply unconscious you are.

Now, with drinkers for the first part of the night, because of the alcohol, they’re too heavily sedated to get into REM sleep. Usually, in a natural sleep cycle, you should have six or seven cycles of REM sleep with drinkers, they usually only have two, wow. And then of course, for the second part of the night, you can’t get to sleep at all because of the overstimulation, so you’re completely ruining your sleep. Now, as I say, there’s a lot we human beings don’t know about sleep, but it’s crucial to mental and physical health.

There’s been all these studies to show that people who don’t sleep enough have increased depression and anxiety and cancer and all of these things. But it’s just common sense when you sleep, your body and your brain repairs itself. It’s physically and mentally restorative. Now, going back to what I was talking about before, for decades, it’s the equivalent of setting your alarm for three in the morning drinking loads of coffee.

And then to get back to a state of, for me, it’s about sleeping properly, you feel 10 times better than you ever did when you were drinking. Even when actually drinking that first guy, you know that that wonderful moment that really drags you in, which is sitting down at the end of the day and having that glass of wine, you feel better than that all the time not to say you don’t have bad days, but you just start everything so much better. So you’ve got that aspect, your heart rates lower. So you’ve got more energy, you lose that anxiety that’s constantly with you just feel more physically and mentally resilient. So for me, it’s it’s forget whether you’ve got a problem with it, whether they are addicted to it, whether it’s doing this, it’s a simple fact that life is so much better when you quit. It’s a simple lifestyle choice.

Casey McGuire Davidson 47:49

Yeah. And when you said it’s all about quality of life. I know we haven’t talked about your story, but how is your quality of life better now that you stopped drinking than it was when you were drinking?

48:01

So I I would have told you when I was so so yeah, no, I haven’t gone massively into my story. But I was in the military, I served in Iraq. So I learned paratrooper is that right as a parachute. That’s crazy.

48:18

And so if I went, so I just stopped seven and a bit years ago. So let’s say I jumped back eight or nine years ago, and you met me, then I would have been a very heavy drinker. And I would have told you, I drank because of my military service. I drank because of marital problems. I drink because I had young children, I found the transition to parenthood very difficult. I didn’t like my job at the time. I didn’t like the house, we were living at the time, it was far too small for us. So I would have turned around and said to you, I drink because of these reasons.

These are my, you know, my big reasons. And I can’t stop drinking because of these problems. When I quit drinking. I didn’t appreciate the extent to which those problems Yes, they were problems and very real problems. But problems that I was more than capable of dealing with what alcohol had done. When I was in the alcohol withdrawal phase, or anxious, unpleasant phase where everything looks scary in too much trouble. those problems looked 10 times worse than they were.

And then when I drank alcohol, I was putting my brain back to its normal chemical balance. So those problems would shrink down. And so it seemed like to me I was drinking. And that helped me cope with all of these problems. But actually what alcohol was doing was removing my ability to cope with them and then kind of partially restoring it when I was drinking.

So what I found when I drank was when I stopped drinking is that all of those problems? Yes, they were problems and they still cause me worry. But I just got on with them.

Some of them I could do something about some of them I couldn’t do anything about but I just lived with them and got on with them. And eventually, I think a lot of it was because I’d quit drinking I got back to like a more stable, resilient, confident person. That Yes, I managed to change my job. The marital problems, I don’t think I think anyone’s marriage is quite perfect. But when you’re not drinking all the time, things got a lot better. I kind of felt I found parenthood massively easier. Yeah. The two things I always say you need with parenthood with young children, you need patience and energy. Alcohol robs you of both of them. So although I would have said I was drinking, because I find the transition to parenthood difficult. The reason I was finding it difficult because I was tired all the time. And I had no energy to deal with two young boys. Whereas now I actually enjoy it. I enjoy parenthood more now in my mid 40s. And I did in my late 30s, because I’ve got so much more energy and more patience. And yes, it is a pain in the backside.

So how old are your kids? Eight and 10? Yeah, I have 13 and seven, so I hear you.

50:58

So yeah, so that I think that was the big thing for me, it was realizing that these big problems in my life, they weren’t the big problems, I thought they were they were of differing degrees of difficulty and caused me different degrees of irritation or Prop, you know, mental disquiet call it what you like. But actually, a lot of it was exaggerated by the drinking. And I don’t think I appreciated the degree that that was the case. So in terms of actual life changes, my life’s it has improved, but a lot of it is just having the mental resilience to kind of cope with things in a much better way.

Casey McGuire Davidson 51:38

I love that you said that. And I actually wrote it down and was nodding when you said resilience. Because I realized that when I was drinking, I mean, I really felt like I couldn’t cope with my life. I felt like it was all too hard. And anything extra at work would be like, Oh my god, it would send me over the edge. Or there’s no way I can add this to my plate, right, I was doing the same thing. I was drinking a bottle of wine a night, I was working full time I had two little kids. You know, I was frustrated by my husband. Because when you’re drinking, you’re you’re frustrated by everything and sensitive and irritable and all those things. And when I stopped drinking, you know, it wasn’t that my whole life was better. Might I the same Boss, I had the same schedule. I still had two little kids. It was but it was a whole lot better. Like it was like 70% better just by removing the alcohol, because I wasn’t a fucking anxious mass who was trying to overcompensate for being bone tired and in alcohol withdrawal and trying to keep everything going despite being checked out for three hours every night, and hungover every morning. And so it was so much better. And then on top of that, I was also just better able to cope write, I was more resilient. And I was better, more mentally and emotionally stable, so that I could actually deal with the problems that did exist.

53:10

Yeah, I often think of it that stopping drinking gave me back my ability to just say I don’t care. And to just not worry about stuff and stuff happens. And it’s there’s you know, stuff happens. It’s bad stuff you some stuff you can deal with some stuff you can’t. But just to think so What?

That’s Yes, life, like everything. off your back a little bit.

53:34

I think there’s still things that derail you. They absolutely are things that derail you, but they’re few and far between now, whereas when you’re drinking heavily, there’s stuff that derail you every day, and it’s just, but when you’re drinking, you can’t see that or you know, right? You’re just like the thing, you’re so deep in it, you’re like, this is why I drink this is why I need to drink today suck. This sucks this.

54:00

That’s the problem. It all happens back to front, because it’s when we’re drinking that we obtained the relief from it. Yeah. So everything looks awful. You’re constantly throwing your toys out the pram and having a mood about things and everything’s too much to cope with. But it’s when you sit down in the evening, and start relieving that withdrawal and underneath the tising, all of that anxiety, that things get back to normal. So it becomes very hard for people to really appreciate that. Alcohol isn’t the friend because it’s when they’re drinking, that they feel relief. And it’s when they’re not drinking that everything starts to become unpleasant. So because it happens back to front is incredibly difficult for people. And I would say to people if you’re in the position of wanting to stop but you haven’t quite got there yet. It is a leap in faith. Yes, you do because I remember doing it myself just being desperately unhappy and thinking Stopping drinking isn’t going to change this because it’s not going to change all of these problems and it can’t do. So to a degree, you have to trust the process. Yeah, and realize things do improve massively. But it does take, as I say, takes a few weeks. Yeah, it’s so worth it. When you get there, and life isn’t perfect, there are still bad days and all the rest of it. But the bad days become fewer and fewer. And the good days become more and more.

Casey McGuire Davidson 55:27

And I would say if you’re listening to this, if you’re listening to this podcast, or reading Williams book, or, or this far in the episode, like something deep inside of you is saying, Yeah, I believe it, I believe that it is better, or I’m ready to take that leap of faith, I just need to do it. And we know that’s hard, right? We drank for years, knowing that alcohol was a problem, and yet not being able or not being ready to stop, like I would always be like, I know I have to stop. Eventually, I just don’t want to stop yet. And I didn’t realize how many years I was keeping myself in that kind of shitty, average place. But it is a leap of faith. And that’s why I always suggest like, just do 100 day experiment, just stop, get to 100 days. If you don’t feel better, you learn something I don’t know, anyone who’s reached 100 days and been like, you know what, that was better back there. Because you’ve like gotten through the withdrawal. You’ve gotten through some of the social shit. You’ve got, you know, so if you’re ready, or if you know, alcohol is a problem, but you you aren’t ready to take that leap of faith, just do it as an experiment.

56:43

Yeah, I would say as well to echo that. I’ve never heard anyone regret stopping. I’ve heard of lots too many people saying I wish I’d done this years ago. And that’s something I think is just not wanting to depress people, but because my eldest sons just turned 10. And it was only a couple of weeks ago, his 10th birthday. And it’s kind of scary, isn’t it? Because it’s like, a decade. And it doesn’t seem that long ago, we first had him and time passes. Yeah, so quickly. And whether you believe in an afterlife, or nothing, or whatever you believe this is your one shot at life. Okay, and one of the worst things to do is to wake up and think I’ve improved my life massively, what would have happened if I’ve done this 10 years ago. So although in many ways, like what we were talking about before, it’s always so easy to put off quitting, because you know what, today was a really bad day, and it’s gonna be so much easier to quit tomorrow. And there’s this natural tendency to put it off and put it off and put it off.

Whereas really, you need to do it the other way around. Because days just add up into weeks and months and years. And before you know it decades have gone by. And they’re decades that you’ve spent tired and anxious and lethargic, when you could have been feeling energetic, positive, and all the rest of it.

Casey McGuire Davidson 58:04

That is exactly what you said. And I think that is the perfect place to end because you know, if you’re listening to this, just take that leap of faith, it does not take that much longer. It doesn’t take that long to feel better. And if you want more information about this, I’d say Williams book alcohol explain is wonderful. I know you have a second book alcohol explain too. But tell us a little bit about those and how people can learn more about what you do.

58:36

Okay, so the easiest place to go is the website, which is our core explained.com. And the first five chapters of the first book are on there, so you can read them and see if it’s kind of thing you’re interested in. So if you like it, then you’ll probably enjoy the rest of it. The second books more of the same in many ways. And the second book is more geared towards long term sobriety. So the first book talks talks a lot a lot about the physiology and socializing and that kind of aspect. The second book kind of builds on that. And I suppose kind of develops a more long term strategy and worldview if you like, for staying sober. Because a lot of the problems with alcohol, it’s it’s our beliefs that are constantly holding us back. So we need to sleep and relax and to socialize. But we also have quite deeply ingrained beliefs about sobriety and drinking. So we see ourselves as drinkers and it becomes a part of our self image and we see people who don’t drink as boring and not very fun and

Casey McGuire Davidson 59:37

oh my god, I was there. I literally used to call myself a red wine girl as like a badge of honor.

59:44

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It becomes a part of who you are. Doesn’t it part of your identity when you ever hear salutely This means I’m fun. I’m a mom, but I’m not all about the mom,

59:53

you know. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So yeah, so the second books a bit more kind of gauged towards That I suppose and sort of breaking things down. But as I say the best place to go really is the website because there’s a few articles on there. And the first five chapters of the first book are on there.

Casey McGuire Davidson 1:00:09

Yeah. And I know you do Facebook Lives pretty often

1:00:13

So there’s a Facebook group how call explained it’s quite big at the moment about 13,000 people in  

it now, but every Friday I do a live. So what I normally do is post in the group on a Thursday to say, doing a live tomorrow and people put questions in and then I read out the questions and answer them. Sometimes I’ve got guests on, so I’ve got a guest. Some are this Friday, I’ve got a guest on. And other times, it’s just me, but if you’re interested in that, then there’s a I’ve got a YouTube channel. So whenever I do a live, they’re uploaded to the to the YouTube channel. And that

Casey McGuire Davidson 1:00:46

Yeah, and I’ll post a link in the show notes to the one that I watched that I love that one that was like, This is crap. And you were you were quite a, you know, animated about it. And I would say somewhat pissed off. And I actually was like, I like that. That’s very

1:01:01

cool. It’s been a long week. And I was just going through putting the questions out. And I think this poor girl put something on there to say like she was in a yoga group or something. And they were constantly posting about wine. And she said about to the yoga teacher. Yeah. should we really be talking about an addictive so it went on from there. And a lot of people were saying, oh, but a little is good for you and all the rest of it. So yeah,

Casey McGuire Davidson 1:01:22

I’ll put the link as I said, I liked it when you were like this, frankly, irritating, or whatever. Alright, well, thank you so much for coming on. This was awesome, and I really appreciate it. Thank you for hosting me. I’ve really enjoyed it. Thank you.