SUMMARY KEYWORDS

drinking, people, life, book, friends, feel, over drinking, quitting drinking, sobriety, thought, we crave connection, relationships, wanted, happy, worried, fit, women, driven, stopped, anxiety, calendar, good, listen, conversation, boundaries, people pleasing, why life after alcohol is awesome, where the adventure and the joy and the fun comes in, authentic self, removing the alcohol is like 10% of the work, the rest of the work is actually kind of grounding yourself in what you want in life and who you are in boundaries, honoring what your own internal compass is, building self-confidence, self-trust, self-worth, survival mechanism, love, respect, conscious choice, core values, self-protection, self-preservation, self-care is so important

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Bex Weller of Sexy Sobriety

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a bus, how to sit with your emotions, when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Hi there. I’m excited to bring back on the podcast one of my favorite guests, Bex Weller of Sexy Sobriety to talk about her new book, Chameleon: Confessions of a Former People Pleaser. And in this episode, you are going to learn so much about people pleasing and trying to blend in, in order to feel safe and avoid conflict or rejection. We’re gonna talk about what drives the need to be liked, and approval addiction and how that can lead to just this constant underlying anxiety. We’re going to touch on boundaries and how to say “no” and so much other good stuff.

 

Now, you may recognize backs from a podcast we recorded, on why life after alcohol is awesome. And you can find that one at hellosomedaycoaching.com/48. And I loved our conversation there. And there’s a reason I wanted to have Bex’s back on because she has such amazing energy around why life after quitting drinking is so good. That is where the adventure and the joy and the fun comes in. So, I’m gonna welcome you on… She’s a Health Coach and a Life Coach, an Author and a Speaker out of Perth, Australia, and the creator of Sexy Sobriety. She helps women from around the world get their sparkle back and create a life they love.

 

So hi, Bex, welcome.

 

Hi, Casey, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it is great to have you on. And I have to say, when I saw your new book, I immediately wanted to talk about it because I am absolutely a recovering people pleaser. I mean, it is so ingrained in me that like people pleasing overachieving combination, and when you were talking about your story, so much of it resonated with me.

 

03:22

And I think this is something that so many women do struggle with, and I hear it from so many of our 60 sobriety members is that that is what’s underlying the drinking for many of us. And what happens is when we stopped drinking, and we don’t necessarily have a strong sense of self yet, we find that we get pulled back into these people pleasing habits even more strongly, like, in my first couple of years of sobriety is something that I really struggled with that I was like, Where is this? Oh, coming from not realizing that I had been running the show in my subconscious for my entire life. But finally, I was able to have the clarity to see what was going on.

 

04:02

Yeah, and it’s just this crazy cycle, right? Like a lot of times, we have sort of this need for approval. And so we feel a little bit insecure, we’re looking to people outside of ourselves to fit in. And so we drink to kind of make that go away to kind of get out of our own head and fit in. And then after we drink, we sort of have this anxiety of like, oh shit, did I say something? Did I piss someone off? Like all of that stuff?

 

04:31

Exactly. And what exactly that because when we’re drinking, we can suffer from this anxiety right? And we’re we have this hangover that’s filled with anxiety. And because I used to have blackouts, I would wonder about what did I say? What did I do? Who’s mad at me? Did I let a secret slip? Did I do all of these things? Never mind all the things about embarrassing myself.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  04:53

I am like nodding my head because I was total like the gray out blackout girl and I just Lately, like, my best friend told me something, and then I like shared that news, even if it was positive, and then like, felt terrible because it wasn’t mine to share all that data.

 

05:11

Awful, right? I remember like a friend saying to me, did you tell this this secret to someone else? And I was like, No, and I swore black and blue that I didn’t. But a few other witnesses were there that said that I didn’t I didn’t remember at all. So of course, every time I drank the same anxiety would come up with of like, what did I do? What did I say? Who did I upset? Who do I need to apologize to? Yeah, and when I stopped drinking that sort of pattern, it took a long time to go away. And, and I found myself, because I was a bit awkward in new situations in in social situations, because I wasn’t drinking, I would wonder what the right thing to say was like, I always, I never felt like I had that problem in when I was drinking, because I was always filled with bravado and Dutch courage. And I was always like, you know, the life of the party, or until I would mess up. But I when I stopped drinking, now I’m suddenly trying to find my own feet trying to find my own way in the world, and how I then interact in a social situation. And did I say the right thing? And Did I upset anyone? And Was I supposed to be more enthusiastic about that? Or was I supposed to be less, I didn’t have this strong sense of self yet didn’t have this strong sense of confidence that comes with a longer-term sobriety. And so I kept giving my power away to others, where I would be like, Okay, I will be whatever they want me to be in order to fit in.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  06:36

Yeah, yeah. And having that sort of need for approval or looking, you know, sort of, for that safety of blending in can hold women back from stopping drinking, because we do live in such a drinking environment. And we probably all have friends who drink a lot because we were drinkers. So when you stop drinking, you’re automatically sort of taking yourself out of that. And that’s a lot of the work that we do, when people stop drinking, to make yourself comfortable with that and sort of to overcome those fears.

 

07:11

Definitely, oh my gosh, in such big drinking societies, it is becoming a rebel, like it’s going against the norm by not drinking. And so already, you’re right. And as humans, we, we crave connection. We want to belong. And so by removing ourselves from that sort of social norm, we’re already distancing ourselves or making ourselves seem different, or other than, and that can be terrifying at first. That was the thing that worried me the most, when I wanted to stop drinking, what will people think what will people say? Will I be invited anywhere? Will I have any friends left? And I hear this from so many women that this is the biggest fear about stopping drinking? Is the fear of being different, the fear of not fitting in?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  07:54

Yeah. And so I love all that. And you know, when you said, this is our deepest fear, I wanted to talk about that, because that’s sort of an underlying theme of your book, talking about the fear that drives the people pleasing. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Yeah,

 

08:13

I, you know, I once listened to a podcast, and there was a clinical psychologist on there. And she was talking about the deepest human fear. And she said it was that we are unlovable. And as I listen to this, you know, just the clogs started to turn in my head where I was like, yeah, is this what has been underlying so many things in my life, where, you know, when I was a teenager, I struggled with body issues and struggled with sort of disordered eating. And underlying that was this thought that if I was thinner, people would love me more. And when I was in my early 30s, and I was rushing to get down the aisle, it was because I was worried about what would people think if I wasn’t married yet? What if I, what would people think if I wasn’t married by 30, Oh, my gosh, well, I won’t fit in or I’ll be left on the shelf or all these things that these beliefs that I had. And that was driven by this underlying belief that if I’m not married, then it means I’m unlovable. And you know, the more I started to become aware of this, I was like, this is what’s driving, it was what was driving a lot of my drinking as well. Like, if I drink then I’m more sociable, then people will love me more. And I’ll be more sort of confident and outgoing. And it was also what was driving by people pleasing, because I was like, if I do and say what other people want me to then I’ll be loved more like I will be lovable. You know, forgetting completely that I was looking for someone else’s love. I wasn’t giving myself love. I was looking for someone else’s, which when you start to think about that is kind of nuts. So because it’s like well, why don’t you start within, like, why do you think that you need someone else’s love if you don’t even know you have yourself?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  10:01

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that is sort of the big work that needs to be done, right? When you stop drinking, I always think that actually removing the alcohol is like 10% of the work. And the rest of the work is actually kind of grounding yourself in what you want in life and who you are in boundaries. And, you know, honoring what your own internal compass is versus everyone else around you. And that’s what leads to real happiness.

 

10:32

Yeah, for sure. And it’s building that confidence up, right? That self worth that self trust, all of those things get so damaged in those years of drinking, you know, I would break promises to myself over and over again, even if it was just about I won’t drink this this Friday, but then I would or I’ll only have two drinks, but then I’d have seven, you know, I would keep breaking them. And I didn’t feel like I could trust myself. And so as for when people would talk about or you have to listen to your gut or listen to your intuition. I did not I couldn’t fathom what that actually meant. I would sort of like nod and think, Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, I get what you mean. But I totally didn’t like underneath it all. I had no idea how to tune into myself because I kept looking to everyone else for answers. And it becomes this cycle where the more we lose trust in ourselves, the more we look to others for answers, the less we listen to ourselves, and it just keeps perpetuating itself.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  11:26

Yeah. And, you know, I think he did you write something in the book about moving a lot or moving as a child? Yeah, I

 

11:33

did. I went to three different primary schools before I was 10. Yeah, yeah,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  11:37

that, like my, I was totally like nodding my head as I was reading this, because, you know, my background is my parents were in American embassies overseas, they were with the Foreign Service. So I moved my entire life, you know, we lived in, you know, the US when I was five, and then Paraguay, in South America, then Zambia, in Africa, and then Brazil, and sort of, on and on. And so I’m going into these elementary schools, knowing I’m only going to be there for two to three years, zero friends, and trying immediately to fit in with any group in a completely different culture. And so when you talked about, like, constantly sort of scanning the room, trying to blend in to feel safe, and figuring out what other people you know, liked, like, because it was completely different wherever I went, I mean, night and day. And so I was like, doing that shape shifting that you talk about, just to try to be like, Okay, if I have friends, I’m going to be good, and I won’t be bullied. And you know, I’ll have somewhere to go on my birthday. That kind of stuff.

 

12:46

Yeah, of course. And you know, this, these people pleasing habits are usually formed when we’re children, whether it’s because we had parents who told us that we only received attention when we were good or perfect, or did what we were told, or whether we’ve changed schools a lot. And we have, we had to find this way to blend in. And it was a survival mechanism. Like it was something that was as kids, you, of course, you want friends, you want someone to have birthday cake with, you want all those things. And so, of course, you’re going to be very resilient and very adept at finding these ways to blend in. And what we don’t realize is that these patterns are formed, and they become very concrete in our subconscious. And we continue to do that when we become adults, even though we no longer need to.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  13:32

Yeah, exactly. And so tell me what your goal was in writing the book in terms of like helping other women, you know, this issue, I see it time and time again. And I see that women really struggle with it when they want to stop drinking, because it’s something that holds them back. But also when they actually have stopped drinking like this struggle with this confidence, building this confidence. So my overall goal was to, to help them see that everything they need is already inside of them that this way, we can rebuild our self worth our self confidence, our self trust our self esteem, we can rebuild all of these things, but in a way that’s kind and gentle and generous to others while protecting ourselves. Because I think a lot of people think of self care as a selfish thing, as though that’s not directly connected to our way that we interact with others. And so I wanted to show them that you can, you can have amazing relationships without giving yourself away without abandoning yourself.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  14:39

And there are specific steps that you kind of go through in the book right to talk about how to do that. I love that I thought it was really useful, both sort of recognizing approval, addiction and then talking about boundaries and saying “no”, what are the key things you think women need to do?

 

14:58

You know, this approval addiction This was something that we had an amazing teacher come into the sexy soap sobriety program at one point, and she was talking about approval addiction. And this was the first time I’d really heard about it. And she was talking about the world being one spoon to 1/3, if you can think about it like that. So 1/3 of the people are totally our people, like, they love us, they love everything we do, and they totally get the real us. And then there’s 1/3 of people who will always be indifferent. They’re not really fussed on, whether we’re what we’re doing, or what we’re saying. And then there’s another third, who will never like us, no matter what, we just don’t gel with us, or we remind them of someone that they didn’t like in the past, or something like that. And yet, we spent so long trying to get all of these people to like us, instead of just focusing on the 1/3 being our crazy selves. And just like letting our freak flag fly and just embracing those people, we bent over backwards trying to win over these two other sections. And we never will win them over no matter what we do. And so we abandon ourselves for no reason. And so, you know, this, this focusing on this 1/3. And really going deeper with those was another element I really wanted to explore in the book where we can have amazing relationships, if we’re more selective as well, I think in this modern society, we tend to look on social media and have FOMO and think I need more friends, like I always need more and more and more. But when we stopped to consider what sort of relationships we really want, and will be deeply fulfilling, we can go deeper with that, that 1/3 of people and remain true to ourselves. And of course, we have more fun because we’re being our complete selves.

 

And so, you know, we can start to, to go deeper with those people, while also looking at the other two groups. And I know that we all tend to have people in our lives who are not always easy to get along with, especially in families, colleagues, you know, people like that, that you don’t selectively choose as your friends. So I wanted to explore also how to set boundaries with those people how to be able to trust them, with your whole heart while also protecting yourself. And also what to say, and this is something that I talked about in the book is that I didn’t even know how to say no to a date, you know, like a guy asked me out and I didn’t even know how to say no to him, even though I didn’t like him. I’d been on one day That was terrible. And I didn’t want to go on another one with him. And I had to ask a colleague like what do I say like how do I say it without being? You know, I was so worried about being nice and likeable all the time, even by someone that I didn’t really care for? Yeah, no, I didn’t like him. I was worried about him liking me. And so you know, it really exploring like how we can say “no” in ways that feel really good if you’re really strong and mature and respectful.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  18:00

If you’re listening to this episode and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit®. The Sobriety Starter Kit® is an online self study, sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step-by-step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one-on-one coaching. And The Sobriety Starter Kit® is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it, when it fits into your schedule.  You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time. This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step-by-step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life. You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better, you’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course.

I love that because actually there is, you know, a whole section in my course. And I’ve got a blog on it about sort of the nice girls guide to say no, because I feel like, so many of us struggle with that because a most women are really good at getting things done, right. We’re like, Oh, shit, it needs to get done. And I can do it, therefore I should. And then we’re also worried about like being seen as a bitch, or unhelpful or selfish or whatever. And so, you know, there’s like, I follow this, like, five step formula for saying no, which I completely had to learn. And I love that you had something very similar in your book, because I was like, you know, it’s sort of like, you can just follow the script, and, you know, move through it.

20:54

Yeah, true, right. And one of the things that I that I practice, most of all was extending my reaction time. You know, in the past, when I was confronted, or I was surprised with something, I would keep blurting things out, trying to sort of figure out what I wanted to say, and I would invariably make might make a big mess of it. And so I started to just extend that reaction time where I was like, let me just think about what they’re saying, or let me say to them, okay, look, I hear you that that event sounds amazing. I’ve got a lot on my calendar at the moment. But let me check in I’ll get back to you Just something to give myself that leeway to think about it if I wasn’t sure. Because I tend, you know, I hear this from a lot of women as well, like I I’m have discovered in sobriety, that I’m quite introverted and a sensitive kind of creature. And so I, I like to think about things first and started sort of just sort of thinking on my feet and coming up with the answer straightaway. And so having given myself this time, as well, it’s a form of self-care that we don’t really think about, is these kinds of boundaries and how to say no, and that we can learn these communication skills and conflict resolution skills as well. This is another thing I talk about in the book is that I had no idea that I thought everyone was, was either born with confidence and visibility to stand up for themselves. I had no idea that that was skills just like riding a bike that yeah, it’s like a must cetera.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  22:22

Yes, I saw the book that you were like, maybe it’s Americans, they just learned, like, it is not Americans, we do not, maybe some.

I do, because I always watched the American reality shows, and everyone was talking about their feelings. And everyone was like, you know, very, very nuanced as to say about everything. And in Australia, we tend to be quite awkward all the time. And so our reality shows as well, the people, the contestants are very awkward. And so to watch this, I was like, wow, they must teach them in elementary school to get up and talk about your feelings. And so then I would watch these UK shows, and the same thing would happen. And, you know, I started to read into research and to investigate this because I was very curious. And when I learned that you could practice them, I was like, Okay, well just think about it like a skill, you know, it’s, it can be awkward, and then it can become elegant as you become stronger in it. And the more you do this, as well, like, this is such a beautiful cycle in reverse, where the more you do say no, in a loving way, the more that you find yourself, responding to things in ways that make you feel proud. The more you build your self-esteem, and the more you do it, because you feel better about yourself. So you want to protect your energy and your time. So you say no, again, and you feel better about yourself. And so it keeps going.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  23:47

In one I completely agree because one saying no, is if you say yes to everything that you don’t want to do, or that is one more thing on your to do list. One, it builds resentment, which is a big reason that people drink because they’re resentful, they’re not happy, they have no time for yourself to build overwhelm, which again, big trigger to drink. So resentment and overwhelm are two big ones. And they all come from saying yes to everything, you know, regardless of whether it would be something you would enjoy, or it sounds good, but you already have a full plate. So I always tell women when they’re starting in early sobriety, like I want you to pick two things every single week that are on your list that you just are not going to do you’re going to offload it delegate it, push it off, decide just it’s not going to get done. Because we’re so uncomfortable with that it is that’s building the muscle.

 

24:51

Oh, I love that so much. Definitely that resentment, that overwhelm and you know, every time I would say “yes” to someone when I really wanted to say “no”. I would go down this rabbit hole of this resentment and feeling so angry with them for asking me in the first place and angry with myself for saying “yes” to something that I didn’t want to do for betraying myself. And you’re right those times as well. Like, I remember throughout my drinking years that was driven. So in my life, so much of my drinking was driven by that and that overwhelm as well of like, I’ll never get all these things done in this week. So I will just drink so I don’t have to think about it,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  25:26

when it’s driven by just insecurity, right. And I don’t say that in a bad way. I think that so many of us feel insecure and want you don’t want that security, that acceptance, that inclusion. And so you say “yes”, and then you resent it? And then you feel more insecure, right? It’s just a vicious cycle.

 

25:49

It is. it is. And then you find yourself, I certainly did, I will find myself avoiding those people afterwards. Because I was like, if I avoid them, then they can’t ask me for anything. And I don’t have to end up in this cycle again. So, you know, I thought that drinking brought me closer to people. But actually, with all these things going on, it didn’t it drove me further apart. Like, I think once we start to explore these healthy boundaries, as well, we also explore a new level of honesty in our relationships, where we’re saying, Listen, this behavior is not okay with me, or actually, I can’t do that thing for you this week. I’m really sorry. But I hope you find someone who can. You start to reach a new level of respect and honesty in those relationships where there was number four, I think when we constantly are putting on an act in a way to fit in, we, you know, we it’s not real, those relationships are just built on quicksand, because we’re not being our authentic self. So any love or respect or admiration that that version of us gets, is a superficial because it’s not real.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  26:58

Yeah, and there’s so many ways you said one of the ways like, Oh, it’s not a great fit for me right now. And that there are incredibly like so many ways to casually say no in a positive way, that aren’t as scary as you think they are. So if this is something you’re uncomfortable with, I mean, the way that I go about saying no is like, first you compliment the person who’s requesting your time, energy, and it can be anything from like, thank you for asking me or even like, Oh, my gosh, I love your shirt. Like, it can be anything, right? Like, oh, so great to see you love your shirt, then you say no to the request. Like I love your idea of asking for time, like, let me check. My schedule is great, too. But you can also just say no, and then you thank them for asking, or for thinking of you. you encourage them in their project. And then you just like change the subject, excuse yourself, move on. And you can literally like go down the script. But you know, like, there are ways to say it like, oh, sounds like a lovely evening, but maybe another time or, you know, I’m flattered. You considered me. But unfortunately, I have to pass right now. I just can’t fit it in my schedule. You know, it’s just, you know, Oh, I’m sorry. That’s not really my thing. I let’s find you know, something else Wait, or like, it doesn’t have to be harsh. I think that’s the issue.

 

28:25

Exactly, exactly. saying no, I had so much energy around it. And I think I hear this from so many women as well as that we, we struggle with that saying no, because we want to be likable, because we don’t want to be seen as being selfish or being you know, a witch or something. And so we struggle with this. And so being able to play with a few different scripts, and you can practice at home as well, like I did this often. When I when I knew I was saying people who would ask things of me, I would practice a few different scripts before I’d go, you know, much like I used to before drinking, tell myself Oh, no, I’m, you know, I’m only going to drink like this and stuff. I will practice different scripts, and then I’ll go in there. And I’ll feel like a lot more confident. And the more we do this, the more confident we become, the easier it becomes.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  29:17

Yeah, and I mean, there’s a good reason that we act that way, right? Like, we have been conditioned, a lot of us since we were little girls to be helpful. And to be nice and to get along. And, you know, we get our Pat’s on our head when we volunteer and, you know, are really busy, a lot of us get rewarded, you know, positive approval for accomplishing a lot. So, there’s a lot of good reasons that we feel uncomfortable saying “no”, because, you know, we get so much positive reinforcement when we don’t.

 

29:50

Exactly, exactly. And it’s an especially as women, you know. Traditionally in, for generations, we’ve been conditioned to be the pleasers, the carers, the caretakers, the assistance. And so, of course, like when we think of other women as well that we expect this of each other. And the more this starts to change, and the more we can sort of cheer each other on as we respect our own boundaries.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  30:20

Yeah, absolutely. So one part that I loved was you said that you were less interested in exploring who you were, and more interested in figuring out who other people wanted you to be. And that was one of the cool things about sort of breaking that pattern was really tuning in to your uniqueness and what you loved.

 

30:44

Yeah, that’s right. Exactly. Because if you think about it, right, we all believe we want to be radical individualist. But we’re also worried about fitting in and being different. And sorry, when I started to think about who I really was, I realized there’s so much magic in being unique anyway, like, why are we so hell bent on trying to fit in all the time and be the same as everyone else. If you think about your favorite singer, or book or pizza shop, they all do something specific that’s unique to them, right? That’s why you love them, that’s what you have a deep affinity for them is because you really appreciate the thing about them that is different. And it’s the same for all of us, we just forget because we’re we have this deep ancestral programming of we need to fit in we need to belong, we need to be part of, of the group, and to remove ourselves from that will just step away from that can be terrifying. But it is actually what makes us so beautiful, and special and interesting. And if you think about each of your friends, or the people in your life that you really love and care about, you probably realize that each of them has something that’s specific and unique and special about them. Like, one of them might make you crack up laughing every time or, or one might, might give you really great advice. And if all of those people were exactly the same as each other left would be pretty boring, right? And the more I started to think about this, the more I was like, Yeah, it’s great that we can be unique, like Ron, why are we not celebrating our differences?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  32:18

Yeah, and you, you know, one of the things you said is that, you know, there is freedom that comes from liberating yourself from trying to fit in as well and seek approval.

 

32:31

Exactly, because I had spent so much time worried about what people thought about me even when I didn’t particularly like them. And to liberate yourself from that, it just feels amazing. Like some so much freedom comes with that, where you’re like, you know, I’ve got my 1/3 of people that I’m focused on, I’ve got my loves my friends, my family that I want to go deeply with and have amazing, honest open relationships with. But then there the rest of the people, it’s okay, if they don’t like me, like, it’s, it’s not the end of the world, not I’m not going to be everyone’s cup of tea. Not everyone likes chocolate. Not everyone likes ice cream, you know, there’s nothing wrong with them, but just people don’t like them. And it just comes back to those personal opinions. And so, you know, I always love that saying as well about, you know, what other people think of you is none of your business. And it just is just so liberating to think, Okay, well, it’s like if they if they get the wrong idea about me, it’s okay, if they have their own concept of who I am. I know who I am. And I think the more we become strong in our own self-worth and our own confidence, the less we care about what others think of us, because we realize that we’re all that really matters is what I think of myself, like, Am I proud of what I’m doing? And my really growing and learning as a human every single day? And does that make me feel really good? Then what does it matter if people that I don’t particularly love or know, what does it matter what they think of me?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  34:08

Yeah, absolutely. And I always think of two things that kind of helped me because I, you know, I said, I’m recovering people pleaser. So this is like ongoing work. One is the sort of quote around like, you’re going to be too much for some people. Those aren’t your people like that. Find your people find the people who make you feel like the best possible version of yourself and sort of just like, go towards that. Because if you’re constantly around someone who makes you feel less than or not good enough, that’s not your people, and that’s okay. You know, and the other thing I always think of is like, because this was hard for me with a boss at work, was we were just, you know, very different. And she was sort of a hard charging type a climb the corporate ladder, didn’t have kids. I really wanted to get promoted and be in all these business meetings. And I reported to her, so she wanted that of me too. And I didn’t want to work weekends and nights, and I wanted to be home with my kids. And I didn’t want to be on the road. And so one thing I had to ask myself is, do I want what she has? And I apply this to lots of people like, Do I want what they have their values, their priorities, their relationships, their lives? And if the answer is no, by definition, they won’t approve of what you’re doing. Right? Because you’re not measuring up to what they think is important. But if you get their approval, you are building your life into something you don’t want to be.

 

35:44

Exactly, you end up with the wrong life, if you’re just making decisions, because you’re trying to do what other people want you to do exactly, that, you know that that is as well, it comes back to the you know, taking other people’s criticism, it’s you, if you look at the people who are criticizing your use, you can sort of think at what I take advice from them, and why would I want this sort of life that they have, then why am I taking their criticism on board?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  36:13

Yeah. And it’s hard when you’re a kid, because you really have very little power. When you’re a child, you don’t have power in your home necessarily for your parents, often not with your older sibling, certainly not in school with teachers. So it is difficult, but once we’re grown, you really do get to choose your friend group, and how much time and energy and access even family members get to you like, it’s a muscle to be worked, but it can be done.

 

36:43

Definitely. And, you know, we I think also when we have low self-esteem, we put up with the love that we think we deserve. We give ourselves away to people who don’t necessarily treat us well. Like I know I when I stopped drinking, I was in these friendship groups where people would, you know, if I did something that I was proud of, but they would find some way to sort of backend critic criticize it, there’ll be some sort of toxic comment pushed in there that made me feel really bad about myself or made me question what I had created or, or made me feel ashamed of what I had created. When I was 10 minutes ago, I was feeling proud of it. And so I started to look at these people, I was hanging out with him being like, Okay, if they, if I keep going and hanging out with them, and they keep making these comments, am I ever going to feel safe to be completely me? Or am I better off fostering these relationships with these other friends where they could, they totally loved me, they when I put something out there or when I create something, they totally cheer me on and encouraged me and are excited for my success just as I am of theirs. And so you know, I think this is something as well, that comes with that building the confidence and being in those cycles as well is like, as you start to build your confidence, you start to really become closer to those people who are good for you. You boost your confidence again, because you see yourself coming out of your shell and being completely you.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  38:12

Yeah, and it’s okay to edit your social circle and to edit your lives, a lot of us worry about that we’re being mean, by sort of shifting who we spend our time and energy with. But in the book, you talk about how behind every yes is actually a no to yourself, right. And that’s a big deal. If you’re constantly sacrificing the people who make you feel good are the activities to making someone else happy.

 

38:42

Exactly which because always think about what would happen if we each had like a timer above our heads that counted down the hours and minutes that we had left in our lives, you know, because we tend to think that we have all the time in the world, but it’s just not the case, we’re all going to go some time. And so the more we can sort of focus on the things that bring us joy and that that we give time to things that enrich our lives, the more fulfilled we’ll be, the happier they will be, the more confident we’ll be. And when we look at requests from others, you know, we really need to look at the time spent on that what we could be spending that time becoming closer to those that we really love and care for, or on causes that we really are passionate about, rather than running around town because a colleague from 10 years ago asked you to get something.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  39:33

Yeah, also give me some examples of the way you’ve sort of shifted. You know what you say no to or what you do less and what you do more of?

 

39:43

I suppose one thing I used to do a lot, especially when I was starting out in business in becoming a health coach and creating all this this stuff is I used to say yes to everything, and I wasn’t so I wanted to build the business of course and I wanted to get my message out there and So I was very much a yes person, you know, someone would say, Can you do a 5000 word article and have it on my desk by Friday? Sure, can you be part of my tele summit and, and spend all of these hours doing all this work? Sure. And so of course, this was a recipe for burnout, I worked myself silly, and I had no time left for the people that I really care about. And I started to one thing that I think can be really helpful is sort of tracking your time as well, like what you’re actually spending your time on, and who you’re saying yes to and who you’re saying no to. And I think with the people closest to us, it can be very tempting to say, oh, I’ll just see you next week. I’ll see the next week after as though they’ll always be there. And really, when we stop to think about, you know, this year as a or you know, any year as a time capsule, you sort of can start to think about where you want that time to go. And I started to, with as this awareness was coming in to start saying yes, more to my closest friends and family, to doing things with them to coming up with new ideas or ways that we could go deeper in them. Because I hear this as well, from a lot of women when we stopped drinking is that we tended to want a lot of social circles before for me it was all about quantity, more people to drink with means that if any of them drop out, I’ve still got other people to drink with. And when I started to, when I stopped drinking, I started to realize, oh, okay, hang on, I think I might be a little bit more introverted, I think I might like, enjoy small groups of friends and catch ups and a one on ones where I can look into the eyes of my friend and really connect on a deep level. And realizing this, as well as, I think, part of the process of thinking about who we actually want to say yes with. And, you know, I it might sound a bit morbid, but I do think about like this precious lifetime, and how much time we have and, and what we want to spend that on. So, I say “yes” to friends and family a lot more now. And I say “no” to, to 99% of things that I get asked to do in my business, because I also have to get very focused now.

 

And this is something I talked about in the book is about realizing what our priorities are. And for me, I realized mine was we’re all still are living a healthy lifestyle, friends and family and creative work. And when it comes to my creative work, I know that I want to do more books. And that’s something that I that I really am focused on. And I think the more we become focused on what our biggest priorities are, the more we can sort of, if you think about your calendar, put them in there first. And then it becomes easier to say no to others. So rather than allowing anyone to come up and ask, ask for your time and pushing yourself to the end of the of the yours to do list, you instead can start to look at, okay, hang on, no, I have these higher priorities. And if I say yes to someone else, then I’m saying no, to the to my friends and family to my healthy lifestyle, you know, whether it’s going to a yoga class or going to the smoothie bar or whatever. Or to the to your biggest priorities in your career or your creative world.

 

43:14

Yeah, and I think that’s really interesting. And, and something to explore is figuring out what your highest priorities are not for your kids or your spouse, or your boss, but for yourself. And that can fit in some of the other people that you adore in your life. But really saying like, okay, for this your head? What, what are my top priorities? What are the big things that I want to make sure I focus on and a lot of us never do that we’re just got our endless list of two dues and schedules, and we never sit down and say, Okay, if I, if I only focused on three things this year, what are the buckets that I would want them to be?

 

43:59

Yeah, it’s such a powerful exercise, it really is. And you can do it at the start of the year, you can do it in mid-year, you can do it anytime, where you start to think about, okay, what are my highest priorities? Like, in three years? What do I want to have achieved? What do I want to have happened in my relationships? What do I want to have happened in my work life? And when we start to sort of look at it like that, and something that I that is can be also very powerful is to say, okay, in three years, like, for example, right now, I’m 46 years old, in three years, I’ll be 49. And to really like name those ages as well, you start to see Ah, okay. Suddenly the things that really matter to you start to come to the forefront.

 

44:40

Yeah, yeah. I’m, I’m laughing because I turned 46 on Saturday. So that’s how I was thinking next year, thank you. You know, what do I want to do? The other thing I was gonna mention, I’ll put it in the show notes. But the other way to do this is to really look at your core values. I don’t know if you’ve ever done core Value work. But I did a whole podcast, I was a guest on someone else’s show about digging in specifically how to figure out what your core values are. And then if you have your top three, you can say, Okay, how does this activity this chunk of time, you know, honor my core value of x. And if it does great, if it doesn’t, you can make that conscious choice. But knowing that it you know, then you can kind of figure out why you resent or get annoyed at certain things. And so it’s just like, one of my core values is just to be happy, like, I just want to be happy. So I choose things that kind of honor that core value, even if it’s not a tangible thing that’s pushing me forward in my career, or in my fitness or in anything, you know.

 

45:51

I love that so much. And I think that that also is a beautiful way to build that intuition. I know when I’ve been asked to go to events before or, you know, like birthday parties or, or other things. And I’ve always been like, shooting, you know, we tend to shoot our self-open, I should go because it’s a long-lost cousin of my friend, and so on. Oh, I should do it. Because otherwise, you know, maybe I won’t get another opportunity. And my husband, he’s always very much a realist. And so he often says to me, what was your initial gut reaction? Like, what was your first thought? And my first thought, and I have to admit, or my first thought was dread, and he’s like, Well, there you go. You know, that’s your intuition before you start shooting all over the town. The initial reaction was like, you didn’t want to go and sorry, really listening to that. And I think that’s beautiful that one of your top priorities or what are your top values is to be happy? Because then it’s, it becomes that much easier to be like, Okay, well, that make me happy, you know, because as soon as you read or you hear about that invitation, either you light up, or you feel this bit of dread.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  47:01

Yeah, yeah, I know. And it actually helped me even when I was in the corporate world, because, you know, one of my one of the things that made me happy was like traveling and going on amazing vacations, and I’m like, okay, by doing this job, it is helping me, you know, make the money. So I can do that. So I’m honoring that value. And just even putting that as opposed to like, Oh, my God, my boss, this reorganization this deadline, I was like, Oh, no, I’m doing this because it allows me to do this thing that is one of my top priorities in life. And so it actually just shifted my focus. You know, it just enabled me to be happier with where I was and find more meaning in that.

 

47:42

Because suddenly feels empowering, right? Rather than feeling like a victim, oh, I have to go, and I hate this job or whatever. Suddenly, you’re if you feel very empowered, well, hang on. I’m in charge. I’m the CEO of my life. I’m going in there. And I’m doing this because it’s getting me to point B. Yeah. So you start to feel like you have more, more controlling your life and more fun and enjoyment that you get out of it. Because you feel like you are the one making the plans that life is not happening to you.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  48:11

Yeah, exactly. Well, so I was laughing because a big part of you know, the stories in your book, and I loved your personal stories, because they became very, like, tangible. I was sort of like, yep, done that. Oh, yeah, I can see that. A big part of it was around being everyone social directors, having people sort of take advantage of your home and coming in and staying on your couch or staying in your guest bedroom, you know, all the time. And so how is that shifted for you? Now? How do you kind of like to be like, Alright, No, thanks. You know, you talked about someone, a friend coming to stay with you, and you’d like work night and day to finish this deadline. And then when she’s with you, she was like, Oh, actually, I’m doing all this other stuff. And kind of us too. It’s a crash pad.

 

48:59

Yes, yes. I was devastated because she called me, she said, Can I have Can you do me a favor? And I said, Of course because I said yes to everything. And she said I’m coming into town and she was coming from overseas. I was thrilled to see her. And I worked myself to the barn in the weeks leading up to her visit because I was just thought we could clear our calendars and have this amazing time. And when she arrived, she was she when I picked her up from the airport, we’re driving home. She’s like, okay, so I can do lunch or dinner tonight. But then that’s the I’ve got a fully booked calendar the rest of the week. So she didn’t want to spend time with me at all. She just wanted a place to stay. And I was devastated. I served myself to sleep. And so now, what happens is I asked a lot of questions. Oh, okay. So you coming into town and then what are your plans? And then, you know, I think this can be a really good tactic of curiosity in and this is something that I think I really had so much miscommunication in my past life. Because in my past life, I was too scared to ask people questions. So now, I’m sort of like, Okay, and so you coming into town? And so what are your plans, and so that I have these realistic expectations. And if there plans to do and see a lot of other people, I’m like, Okay, well, maybe just come stay with us for that one night, and then go on, and you can stay with the other friends or you can go, you know, go on from there. Because we have a lot of things on as well. And, you know, I think that, you know, again, coming with practice of, because in the book as well, like, I start with talking about my first wedding and how I sort of bent over backwards to make everyone happy, and how it became so unmanageable to have like these 80 people flying in from different places, who all wanted different things, and they wanted to stay with me, or they all wanted extra help with their booking their accommodation, and so on. And I was so burnt out, it was just, it was just crazy. And so, now I really take a step back as well, like I, when I stopped drinking, I had to say to myself, you don’t have to be that person anymore. You don’t have to be the social organizer, just because everyone expects you to be you don’t have to be the one stepping up and being first and saying, Yes, I can do anything you want me to do. You don’t let someone else do it for change. And so I really start to step back and ask those questions. And so if anyone is struggling with that, where they feel like they sort of give an inch and people take a mile, and they have a lot of people wanting and asking things of them. Coming around to that curiosity can really help where you sort of get everything out in the open again, coming back to those boundaries being honesty, is asking them what their intentions are. And, and then you can also come back with your sort of counter offers.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  51:54

Yeah. And I was literally about to say counteroffer because we don’t feel like we can do that. Right. And so once you get curious, you’re like, Oh, I’d love to see you. I’m coming in and tell you’re like, Yeah, that’s great. I mean, even people who want to get together here I am looking at my coaching schedule. I’m looking at what I have on my calendar, trying to figure out like, I’m like, Oh, do you mind coming to Redmond because we can go to this great lunch place. Like, it doesn’t mean you have to drive 40 minutes away and take all this time. And if they’re not able to come to you, you’re like, Oh, okay. I mean, it also tells you something about how willing they are to accommodate, you know, come to you, as opposed to bending over backwards. So, you know, certainly like, you’re allowed to counteroffer on anything like, hey, let’s get together. And let’s do this big, full day over my thing be like, oh, gosh, I would love to see you. How about x, which is breakfast, or lunch or all stopped by at the end? Like you don’t have to, like take their first offer?

 

53:00

Yes, yes. And I always wanted, right. And I would have these people who sort of had wishy washy plans as well, which would drive me crazy, where they’d be like, oh, maybe I’ll be we’ll meet up there. Or maybe we’ll meet up there. And I would leave my calendar open, trying to figure out where we were going to meet. And so becoming more confident as well as more about that as being able to go back and say, Okay, well, I can meet you between two and four. If you’re going to be at this place. Like we can go to this place. Otherwise, I could meet you again in two Sunday’s time, really coming forward. And I think taking your power back by telling them when you’re available, and where would be convenient to you like if you definitely taking that steering wheel of saying, Okay, well, let’s meet here at these this time. And that helps with communication where everyone’s on board with exactly what the plans are, rather than these wishy-washy plans. But it also again, it helps you feel empowered, where you’re like, Okay, well, no, I know exactly what’s happening rather than giving your power away letting other people sort of change the plans or, you know, hijack your entire weekend.

 

54:08

Yeah. And it also helps to, like, put things on your calendar for yourself, right, so many of the like, we’re grasping for the last, you know, the last dregs of any time or energy, your schedule, like we’ve got, we’ve got work. We’ve got kids, and we’ve got house stuff, right. And we attempt to say, you know, hey, on Wednesday night, I’m going to go to yoga or on Sunday morning, I want to do this thing. And actually putting that in the calendar. makes it way easier to say no to other stuff. Because you’re like, Oh, actually, I already have something on my calendar. I can’t make it.

 

54:46

Exactly. I already have plans. Sorry.

 

54:49

Yeah, exactly. Well, when I was reading your book, I loved this part. So you said two things you said for years. I was the ultimate chameleon. Perfectly morphine myself to fit in with the crowd. I was petrified of not being liked of being a burden of doing anything that might hurt someone’s feeling and the slightest confrontation. And then this was the reaction the payoff, which is what I felt to my people please inhabits left me with an overstuffed calendar, unrelenting anxiety that someone, anyone might be mad at me, and complete inability to get through tough conversations without having a heart attack. I mean, that sums it up for me.

 

55:39

Exactly right. He knows and hits the nail on the head, because these were all the things that I was so worried about. And I was constantly shape shifting. And another thing that I talked about is, often I would assume I knew what the person wanted from me. And so I would, for example, there was a friend who wanted who mentioned that she wanted a cookbook for some dinner party that she was putting together. So I thought, oh, gosh, she can’t find that cookbook. I better run around all over town and find it for her. And it was sold out everywhere. So I was running around to different shops and stuff. And I finally found it. And I presented it to her, and I expected her to throw her arms around me and cry with gratitude. And instead, she was like, Oh, Okay, thanks. I actually don’t need that anymore. And I was like, what am I doing? Like I I’m sort of doing what I think people want me to do. But my assumptions can be completely off can be completely wrong. And no, I maybe I’m acting more quietly because I think they want me to I’m acting more going because I think they want me to but like, I’m guessing like all of this exists only in my own head.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  56:46

Oh my gosh, I did this recently with my mother actually just got back from a trip to Ohio. It was like a three to 4-day trip. I hadn’t been to Ohio in a decade. My sister lives there. And my mother had, you know, we’ll see if she listens to this. Hopefully, she had, you know, started off being like, let’s have the whole family go to this resort in Indiana, don’t ask that, you know, has like golf and trails and stuff like that. And it was sort of like a surprise, like, tada, we’re gonna go do this. And I’m like, okay, I live in Seattle. I’ve got work, I’ve got family, my husband, my son, my daughter, like, what? And then it sort of morphed into something else. And then something else. And so finally, I was like, okay, mom, I just want to make sure what is important to you. Like, what is important to you in this like, because we’ve had three different versions of this planet to me, they were coming out of nowhere, they were totally unrelated. You know, I and they were like, a week at a time and I’m just like, okay, I want to make you happy. But what is what is it that you care about? And she said, okay, it’s really important to me that Laila my seven-year-old spend time with Abby, my sister’s 18-year-old before Abby goes to college, and I was like, okay, that is what you care about. And she was like, Yes. And I was like, Alright, so what that did was, took my husband off the table, took my son off the table, like I was like, Alright, so it’s not a week at a resort in Indiana, it with the entire family and the guys and all this, I was like, okay, you and Abby and Lyla hang out, and then it ended up being like, Alright, three nights is enough, we’re gonna fly in on a Wednesday fly out on a Saturday, what my mom cared about was gonna be taken care of. And then I could like, not feel like, my entire life was being driven by this other thing. And if I hadn’t asked that question, I would have been, you know, strong arming my husband and my son and trying to get them to take vacation time. And my mom didn’t care about any of that, you know?

 

58:55

Exactly. It’s just like, assuming what they want. And you’ll be feeling resentful, because you’ll be like, Great, now we all have to go. This is such a big hoo ha and Yeah, exactly. And instead, being curious and asking those questions and developing those communication skills where you’re like, Okay, let me get to the bottom of what your point of view is, let me get to the bottom of what your request is actually about. What’s the thing here that’s the most important to you So I love that

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  59:21

Yeah, cuz she was clearly upset at you know, and feeling irritated and resentful and that we weren’t meeting her needs are jumping on her great ideas. And so, which is fine. I don’t want her to feel that way. But I never would have figured out what the issue was until I actually asked, and you know, I actually think it was good for her to actually be asked like, Okay, what is important to you? Why do you want to do this? I’m happy to do it for you. It’s just like, let’s get clear because there are a lot of moving pieces here.

 

59:51

I love that so much. And you know, there’s so much that’s wrapped up in there. There’s the conflict resolution is the communication skills. There’s the boundaries and you know, Really, we get to this better level like now your relationship with your mother since then it’s reinforced because you had this level of honesty about what’s this about, she feels honored, you feel respected. And it’s this beautiful, you know, symbiosis where before, you know if we just sort of like dream up of their ideas, oh, I guess she wants us to go because of this, or she, I guess she wants us to go because of this. Instead, you had this miscommunication, and everyone feels grumpy.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:00:29

Yeah. And it’s not this automatic. Yes. And also, like, you know, people, when you assume you talked about this, that, like, assumptions rarely get anyone what they want, like just asking this specific questions, and you’re like, Okay, I can meet your need, because that is important to you. And I can edit it, you know, the counteroffer so that it actually fits into my life, my schedule my needs.

 

1:00:57

And it’s so important as well, like, if we’re in a conflict, like if we’re in an argument, or, you know, someone is really taking a strong stand for what they want, this is such a helpful thing as well, to get to the bottom of what the conflict is about. Because often we can get into these arguments. And we think we’re arguing about one thing, but if we stopped to be like, well, hang on, why, why do you feel this strongly about this issue, and take the time to listen to the other person and hear their point of view, we can resolve the conflict so much more easily and with so much less anxiety, because we’re actually understanding all that’s why you’re so mad about this thing. I thought it was actually about this, or, you know, my, my side of it was actually this.

 

1:01:40

Yeah. And if anyone’s listening to this, and having heart palpitations, at the thought of, you know, any of this work, I totally get it because it is difficult, right? It is, it is a muscle to be used. That’s why sometimes the scripts can be really helpful and putting, you know, like you said, what are your top priorities, figuring out how to say no practicing that on low stakes, things like really, like, I’m gonna say no to this small thing, and I’m gonna, I’m gonna, you know, go through that exercise, and then get out of that and feel okay, and then you can work up to the bigger things.

 

1:02:18

Definitely. And it can be very emotional as well, the first few times that you do this as well, like, I, I remember, I had, like a family issue where they, I felt like they had sort of left me out of something. And I was really heard about it. And I wanted to confront them about it. This is my family of origin, obviously, not my children or anything. And so I went to see them to talk to them about it. And I had no experience of speaking up for myself. And they’d never seen it from me. So as I went in there, I was having heart palpitations, I was sweating. I didn’t know whether to cry or poop my pants like I was just a mess. I sat down with them. And I you know, said like, when you did this thing, it really upset me that you, you left me out, I was really shocked that you would do that. And they were very, I wasn’t sure what their reaction would be, of course, which is what makes it even more scary. And their reaction was like, oh, gosh, we had no idea like, because I calmly explained and don’t worry, before that I was angry, I was all sorts of things. But I didn’t go in there with all guns blazing. I went in there with wanting to get to being closer to them, and not to drive us further apart. So I went in there thinking, what could the solution be? Okay, they left me out of this thing, because I guess they, they were going to a big drinking thing. And they didn’t think that I would want to go, which was correct. I didn’t want to go. But I wanted to just be consulted, because it was around Christmas. And, and so I said to them, you know, like, why don’t we like come to a solution. And so I just stayed focused on the solution, as we talked about it, because it helped me to remain calm. And this is something that can really help you as well in conflict resolutions, everyone listening is that if you ask a lot of questions, you find out what the other person’s point of view is. And you stay focused on a solution that will bring you closer together, if that is your intention, of course with this person. And so for us, I said to them, Look, I Okay, I get it, like you’d like to do those things. And I’m not into those things anymore. But well, let me think of some things that we can do together. And why don’t we do that on some of the Christmas days and then you go into the other things on the other Christmas stays like coming together and wanting to walk away from that conflict with I’m closer relationship. And I think so often we go into these conflicts, wanting to fight for our own point of view, forgetting that our ultimate goal is to be closer to someone like especially if they’re our loved ones, not to fight for the position of the biggest victim or to fight for the position of I was right and you’re wrong, but instead to be let’s resolve this so that we reach a new level of understanding in our relationship.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:05:02

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it is a journey of self-discovery, it is a journey of growth, and figuring out how to honor your own needs. And it’s, it’s not easy. But once you stop drinking, it’s something that you can kind of see with more clarity. And, you know, actually evaluate what you like to do with your time and what you need to feel safe and taken care of.

 

1:05:27

mm hmm, exactly. That self-protection, self-preservation, self-care is so important, as we learn to find our feet in sobriety.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:05:37

Yeah. Anything else you want to share about the book?

 

1:05:41

Um, just that I really hope that it helps to, to build that confidence, because I know that something that I struggled with so much in those early years, and if I can make it that little bit easier for anyone who reads the book, then job done, that’s what my biggest hope is that it helps them to feel less alone and to know that not everyone is born with these skills in 18 hours, like not everyone learns them when we were kids or at school. And so we can practice these skills, we can get better at them. And the more we do, so the more we build ourselves back up, the more we build as our self-confidence and our self-trust. And we learn that we always have our own back. And I think that’s where confidence really comes from, is believing that no matter what happens, no matter what other people do, or say, or you know what happens in my life, I can trust myself, I’ve got my own back, I, I will always be my biggest advocate. And I think that is where we can gain unshakable confidence.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:06:42

Yeah, and so many women struggle with this, like, almost every woman I know struggles with saying no, and people pleasing and worrying if people are mad at them or don’t like them. And the more that we’re able to exercise those muscles, we actually give permission to other women to do the same.

 

1:07:01

Exactly. Because I’ve watched women and when they say no in a way that I think is really close, and I’m like, Oh, I like that script, I will start bringing that into my repertoire as well. So we learn from each other, and we help to then build each other up and to overcome these expectations. And the beautiful thing is, is that well, then we break these generational cycles as well, where we can start to teach children the way that how they can stand up for themselves.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:07:29

Yeah, cuz you’re not, you know, otherwise, you get into sort of the martyr or the victim or, you know, all those things that don’t serve you well, either.

 

1:07:38

Not because they those things just make you feel better. And instead, when you’re feeling like happy, you’ve said no, and you feel like I said no in a way that was kind but that considers my own time. You feel good about yourself and everyone around you benefits.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:07:52

Yeah. And you would be surprised at once you do that, that other people are actually happy. They’re not upset that you’ve built up to be like, oh my god, I have to say this, but they’re gonna be really pissed or whatever. They’re just like, oh, okay, like water off a duck. And I’m like, holy shit seriously.

 

1:08:09

Bless your mind. Right. The first few times, I was like, Well, that was an anticlimax. Or they respect you more, because you were honest. And I love that as well. Like, I love that aspect of it, the more you do, so the more you’re like, wow. And then you respect others who are honest as well about their times and, and boundaries.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:08:29

And sometimes when you’re like, wow, that was easy. I should have done that, you know, years ago.

 

1:08:34

Why didn’t I do that? Why was I stewing on it and making myself ill worrying about it? Yeah,

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:08:39

exactly. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I love this book. So it’s chameleon. Confessions of a people pleaser. Is that right? Yeah. Confessions of a former people pleaser, yes. Get it at Amazon or any bookshop, what’s the best place for people to find it?

 

1:08:56

So you can find that you can come to Beck’s weller.com forward slash books, or it’s on Amazon. It’s at it’ll be an all the online retailers. So target us Walmart eats at independence, Barnes and Noble. So you can find it anywhere where you order books online.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:09:11

Perfect. And it’s really good. I just read it on my flight to Ohio that I was talking about and my flight home and I really enjoyed it.

 

Oh, I’m so happy to hear that.

 

All right. Thank you.

 

Thank you, Casey.