SUMMARY KEYWORDS

drinking, alcohol, feel, life, women, people, habits, sobriety, recognize, change, early, day, creating, wine, quit, coaching, Camille, love, stop, wake, day one, non-drinking, alcohol-free, lifestyle, adding new information, belief system, habits, strategies, stop drinking, taking a break from drinking, moderate, The Naked Mind, life can be better without alcohol, you will feel better, look better, I got bored, thought process, can’t really imagine my life without alcohol, change, update the database, sober minded people, can have a really good life without alcohol, guiding people through this lifestyle change, builds trust within ourselves, well-being, creating the space, model what trusting our intuition and others really is, get comfortable with the uncomfortable, i knew what my triggers were, pattern interruption, behavior change, cue, craving, response, reward cycle, fragile, COZY method, Consistency, creating new habits, rituals, habit feedback loop, emotions, the way we respond to life, thoughts, negative self-talk, Ownership, parasympathetic nervous system, sympathetic nervous system, our fight and flight, how are we showing up all day long, take responsibility, recognize when you’re in the green zone (feel completely connected) or red zone, yellow zone is you’re doing okay, we are first, asking for what we need, Zooming In & Out, who do you want to be in this world?, what do you do everyday?, values, courageous, brave, fear of change, Yes, wanting more from your life, your happiness, your joy, your health, Coach holds that vision, beginning, forward looking, envision who you want to be and remind yourself of that, journey, learnings, recognizing your sober treats, start doing that work that we never did, need boundaries, self-care, quit drinking, I got comfortable with my own skin, Brené Brown, midlife unraveling, aligned, similar philosophies, experiences, continuously show up for you

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Camille Kinzler

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a bus, how to sit with your emotions, when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Hi everyone. Welcome to the podcast today we’re talking about the fact that no one actually wants to stop drinking when they’re just getting started, but we’re going to talk about how to do it anyway. My guest today is Camille Kinzler. She’s an alcohol-free lifestyle and habits expert with a Master’s in Science and Physician Assistants PA studies. She’s passionate about helping women who wake up at 3am saying I wish I didn’t have that last glass of wine again and helping them relearn how to de stress unwind and connect instead of instinctively reaching for their “go-to” cocktail. Camille loves working with professional women busy moms and healers and healthcare professionals as she is all of the above, too, and Camille and I met over the internet. We’re both Sober Coaches who work with high achieving women we have a ton in common and have been talking over the past few weeks about all things Coaching and life and kids and business. And I’m really excited to have her on the podcast. So, welcome.

 

02:35

Hi Casey! I love being on this podcast and talking about all things boozy and non-booze is my jam. So, thank you for having me.

 

02:44

Oh yeah, I’m super excited for you to be here and as we were just getting to know each other and chatting one of the things we talked about that kind of kept coming up is the fact that at least for me. I believe for you, and for a lot of the women we coach, you come to sobriety or wanting to take a break from drinking because generally, you kind of feel like shit, right? You want to feel better, but you don’t actually want to stop drinking and that’s a huge hurdle for women to get through and I know it was for me too in terms of like I don’t actually want to stop drinking I just want to feel better how do I sort of resolve that in my own mind.

 

03:29

Yeah, exactly. You know I tried all the things before I actually just eliminated alcohol, so I did that. I think this is so common we do juice cleanses, we do hot yoga challenges, we sign up for triathlons, we really push ourselves to be healthier and more energized and we reward ourselves for doing all those things with a glass of wine or a bottle of wine at night which negates all of the good stuff that we did. But what we’re really trying to do is curb our drinking habits and I did that for years until ultimately, I was like, you know, what the only thing that I haven’t tried is to just eliminate alcohol and keep all of the other things in the thing. So, I’m not going to sign up for a triathlon. I’m not going to do a yoga challenge. I’m not going to do anything except for quit drinking. And I think that, that is so common in our women that we work for work with is that they typically have tried all of the things and are still like, I’m still so tired and bloated and exhausted and really don’t have the space to think at all anymore. So, absolutely, I don’t think anybody comes into it saying, I’m not. I’m gonna quit drinking for the rest of my life.

 

04:49

Yeah, I mean, what I started with. I mean, I had done basically all the things to sort of cut back on my drinking. I mean, beyond even just the rules of life. Okay, I’m not going to drink an entire bottle, which that sounds bad. So, I was like, I’m just going to have two glasses or three glasses, or I’m just going to drink when I’m out. So, I won’t drink too much at home, you know, so you have to order. And then, I’m like, Okay, forget that. I’m just going to drink when I’m home. So that when I’m out, I’m not worried about driving, but I did all the things like, Okay, I’m going to go to therapy, and I’m going to get medication for my anxiety so that if I’m less anxious, then I won’t drink or I’m going to join a running club. That’s on Tuesday nights, because if I’m running, then I won’t drink. So just all the different things. I mean, I did morning, you know, morning boot camp and morning, bar classes. Like, if I have to get up at five, then I won’t drink. And the only thing that actually worked was just not drinking, right. I mean, that’s, unfortunately the punchline.

 

05:54

Yeah, you know, the thing is, is that usually what happens is people are like, I just want to learn to moderate. And what I always ask is, have you moderated? Have you tried moderating before? And they’re like, Well, no, not really. I’m like, well, let’s talk about your history with drinking. Have you ever said to yourself, I am not going to drink white wine anymore, I’m only going to drink more red wine, I’m only going to drink tequila with water in between each shot, or I’m not going to drink tequila anymore, I’m only going to drink beer, I’m only going to drink on the weekends and not during the weekdays. That’s moderation. And I don’t think that I know that I didn’t really recognize that that’s what I was doing. And so, I think it’s really kind of important to look at what our patterns of drinking have been over the years and how they’ve changed. And that doesn’t mean that you’re you went from drinking every other day to drinking every day. But it might be when you do drink, it’s over drinking, or that you are drinking, you know, two or three glasses of wine every day when you used to only drink on the weekends. It’s like what is changed? And then, when and where have you been trying to moderate or cut down on your drinking?

 

Yeah. And then, when is enough enough, right? When is it just kind of like what I was doing? Right? Where I was like, what is the crazy making of trying the same thing over and over again? When do I really need the huge pattern interruption? And that pattern interruption can be, I’m going to not drink for 100 days and see what happens?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson 07:27

Yeah, right. And, and I think that the idea of like, I’m going to stop forever, you know, along the lines of nobody actually wants to stop drinking is a huge hurdle that most of us and I’m talking including myself when I was drinking would never go for like literally, “having to stop drinking” was my worst case scenario. It was, you know, I needed to do anything that I could do to avoid that being true. And so like you said, I really encourage women to just say, I’m going to take 100-day break from alcohol. And during that time, I am going to figure out how good I can feel and how good life can be without alcohol in my life. Because trying to moderate which is what I did for a decade, you’re just literally doing the absolute worst, two weeks, four days, seven days, three weeks, you’re doing it over and over and over again. And you never actually get to see what your life could look like when you take alcohol off the table. And you don’t just say forever, just like, Hey, 100 days, I want to see you know, as I look forward by July 4, how amazing could I feel? How amazing could I look? How much clarity would I have if I just didn’t drink for 100 days?

 

10:58

Yeah, absolutely. And that so true, is really doing the first the worst part over again, the first 14 days over and over and over again. The other thing that’s really interesting about it too, is that what happens I feel like is when we look at it, though, as I’m going to try to go 100 days without drinking, because there were definitely times where I was doing the whole 30.

 

Right, yeah, not going to drink for 30 days or some cleanse, and then I would get to day 21. And what I would do is I’m like, Oh, that’s good enough, I’m going to celebrate with wine. And so what I and then I was like, Well, I’m, you know, I’m a failure, I didn’t make it to the 30 days. And then it starts this loop, this habit and failure loop, where we get into the habit of not succeeding. It’s like, my kids’ piano teacher said, don’t get into the habit of making mistakes, take your time and go slow. Because if you rush through it and keep making that, you know, hitting that same wrong key is that you’ll get in the habit of hitting that wrong key. And so it’s sort of like, I also like to say that our day one isn’t the day that we actually start 100 days or the day of non, you know, non-drinking out lifestyle. It’s really the day that we listen to your first podcast interview, where we reach for the first non-drinking, like quit lit memoir. And what we’re doing at that point in time is we’re re, we’re reframing, we’re working at the subconscious level, we’re creating new neural pathways, to really get us to the point where at some one day, we’re going to be ready to take that 100-day break.

 

Yeah. And that 100 day may lead to then two years or four years, in my case, and what’s five, six years in year, five years, five years in your case. And that is what happens. But I think that, what are, you know, the society is really perpetuated is this “day one”, and you’re starting over every single time that you have a drink. Yeah, I’m reality, I’m like, let’s just take put that aside. And let’s say that we’re retraining our brain. And that takes a long time. We cannot break and make habits in 21 days as like, it’s false. You know, it takes a lot longer and even up into a year for our neural networks to really change and for us to lay, you know, good solid ones again, yeah, no, you know, you think of Annie Grace, right? Everyone loves This Naked Mind. What she did is she locked herself in a room for a year studying about how alcohol affects the body in the you know, in the in the mind, and in basically, she was working at her at the subconscious level. But she drank that whole time. And then she came out one day, it was like, I’m no longer gonna drink anymore. And in reality, you know, that’s the same thing as all of our, you know, Lauren McLellan did the same. She, I think, in her book, she said, she even, when it’s a drunk one time, because she was really working at creating this, these new habits and this new life.

 

And it takes time, when it, you know, I think that especially in the beginning what you said about like, even as you’re listening to this podcast, or reading a book, or joining a group, you are adding all this information and just new belief systems about the fact that like, alcohol is not this amazing elixir that has no negative consequences. You are not alone. Life can be better without alcohol, you’re going to feel better, you’re going to look better, like you’re planting all those seeds, and gathering more information about it. And I mean, I love Annie Grace and all the information.

 

I mean, I went for years, worried about my drinking, thinking about my drinking, trying to moderate like every single one of those moments was something that I needed to do. I think I told you this story, but I actually, so, I quit drinking eight years ago and became friends. You know, for the first time, I became friends with a couple people on this secret online Facebook group and talk to a woman who was originally from Seattle, she had moved down to the Bay Area, we both kind of worked in tech, we were the same age, we had kids the same age. And, you know, we were like, a person that I would have been friends with generally in life, right. So, we both talked to each other on the phone in early sobriety. She was in California, I’m in Seattle. And then I got pregnant after a year, I went back to drinking, she did it. And I distinctly remember, because I was in the same group, we were Facebook friends, three years later, well, three years from when we first met. About two years since I’d gone back to drinking. And she posted in our group pictures of her gratitude group that she’d met in early sobriety, because they were all hitting three years without alcohol. And they were writing cable cars and biking across the Golden Gate Bridge. And they looked so happy, and they were having so much fun. And they were drinking tea at tea houses. And I was on my couch hung over, having the same debate that I had for years, and was just like, Oh, my God, I want that. I want what she is feeling in her life right now. And it wasn’t that I didn’t want to drink anymore. It was that I wanted something more. Do you know what I mean?

 

16:32

Oh yeah, absolutely. And I say that what happened is I got bored, I was bored of hearing myself say the same thing over and over and over again, I was here tired of hearing myself say the same thing when I was drinking with my husband on the back porch about how I wanted to change the world. And they would wake up with a hangover. And then I was tired of that same, the same thought process that came through my head when I did drink, like, oh, wake up and wake up in the morning and saying, I’m going to dread today. I can’t wait to this evening, I just got tired of hearing myself say the same thing bored with my, my own my own thoughts. The other thing that I found that you said that was really interesting, is, what you were doing, you know, you were seeing all of these people having this lifestyle that you really wanted. And I think what happens is, is that drinking at some point in our lives is fun. We typically had a good time in the beginning. And so, it’s this thing where we have these two sides of us and we’re like, but I mean, I did. I think I had a really good time. And then we’re and then we don’t anymore. And I think what we what happens is that we are we don’t, we don’t feel like we can change, right? There’s something within inside of us. That’s that, that scares us about changing. And we really have to update our, our database, really, and change our belief systems. And by having groups of sober minded people or being on social media and seeing those sober minded, you know, badass chicks that are out there really helps us update that database like, wow, we can have a really good life without drinking. And it’s okay to say it used to be fun. I really did have fun. I’m not crazy. Yeah. And now it’s no longer fun. It’s no longer serving me. I’m tired of working on the couch.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson 18:30

Yeah. I mean, I always think of them as like drinking highlights and lowlights. And, you know, a lot of my clients are like, but it was really good. And sometimes, it still is good. And I’m like, Yeah, me too, you know, cuz I know a lot of people are like, Yeah, but you probably didn’t love drinking as much as I did. And I was like, No, no, no, I loved it. Like, I know where you are. And my highlights were like, 10% of my drinking life. By the time I quit, my low lights were 90% like, I kept thinking of the wine tasting weekend in Walla Walla or a trip to Italy. 90% of my life was the 3am wakeups, the bloodshot eyes, the irritability, the feeling like crap, and talking shit to myself. And so I think that’s why you, you can kind of say, Yes, I still want to drink. No, I can’t really imagine my life without alcohol. Yes, I, you know, I’m, I’m not sure I want to do this forever. And still, I’m going to stop for 100 days and see how good life can feel without it like those. You can hold both of those to be true. It’s only when you’re trying to moderate and stop and start like, that’s where you’re being tortured. You know what I mean?

 

19:51

Yeah, absolutely. Because really, that first 30 days is that we’re learning new habits. We’re learning a new way to show up. I always say you know quitting drinking or not picking up a drink is the easy part is what you do afterwards that’s the challenge and so the first 30 days you’re learning like what do I do when I get home from work you know what do I do with my kids during the witching hour and how do I celebrate that’s what you do the first 30 days and the second 30 days is where you can be more on autopilot with that where you think less about drinking you’re less triggered and then that that last 30 days or 40 days we’re trying to get to 100 is where we really start opening up and it’s kind of where you know sky’s the limit and we start really feeling like that we have the superpower. And so, if we can’t get to that point then it is it’s like what’s you know what is the hype why are all of these women saying that life is so great without drinking yeah and the thing is too is that what keeps us back in the bottle is this idea of well that trip to Italy and that glass of wine that I don’t even have planned it’s not even on the books I actually haven’t even started saving for it yeah well then I won’t be able to drink then you know and it’s really, you know, saying for me is I had. I think it was about two years in where I stopped fantasizing about this period of time when I was older that I could drink wine again. But up until that point, I had this goal, this unachievable goal. Maybe it’s achievable. We’ll see, we’ll see one day. But it was this thing this heightened fitness you know where I was just at the height of my well-being and peace in life and then best shape of my life and then also reaching these milestones and my personal business who knows if I’ll ever get there but I was like then I’ll be able to celebrate with a glass of wine. No. I’m like, No. I’m going to celebrate by like, you know, I can kill the drive or something, yeah.

 

22:05

Yeah. No, I mean I think that you know it’s the same thing like when I was starting to quit drinking I was like but what about at my daughter’s wedding and she was 22 months old I’m like okay that’s crazy you know in the beginning you’re just like no you know it it’s always like you’ve been drinking for 20 years. What’s 100 days to see if you feel better right? But you know, I know so many women that I work with who’ve never, you know, maybe 21 days is the longest they’ve gotten in three years or five years and I always think of that as like your ceiling like for some reason your subconscious is going to throw up the biggest fight you’ve ever seen on the time when you’re about to break through that ceiling and sort of holding on past that and using all your tools. It’s like your breakthrough moment.

 

Like, for me, it was day 16 that was like my breakthrough moment but if you just do the early part over and over again women think like I fucking hate sobriety and it’s like no sobriety is awesome what you hate is early sobriety right like breaking out of the drinking cycle because it is really hard like if women tell me in the first three weeks that they didn’t want to drink I won’t believe them I’m like yep that doesn’t happen if you love to drink you’re going to want to drink and what my favorite thing that anyone has written is Christy Coulter. I don’t know if you know her, but she wrote on she lee, which was like this viral essay and also, Nothing Good Can Come From This, this novel sort of essays. And what she said was, she had this awesome essay called The Otter Of Sobriety and it was about how she had gone to this to this crafty store and had bought this felt otter and she was like, this is what I need to stop drinking which is crazy. But we’ve all done like, crazy stuff right? Where we’re like, I’m gonna get so into crafting. She was like, then I won’t want to drink and all these different things, you know that I’ve done, you know?

 

Yep. I did triathlons. Yep, in that. I did hold 30. Did that. Like, all these things are gonna make me not want to drink I’m going to read all the books, all the Anna Grace, right. As long as I know enough about what it does to my body that I won’t want to drink and in this essay she says I didn’t need to kill the want she’s like I finally realized that I just needed to kill the yes like we all think that if we know enough we won’t want to drink and then the kicker not drinking will be easy because we won’t want to. It sucks, but the inverse happens like once you don’t drink then the one falls away. But it doesn’t happen first. Have you seen that too?

 

25:04

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that. Yeah. I always say if women aren’t mourning alcohol at the beginning, then they’re not really in it. Like, they really don’t want to see how expansive life can be, because they’re just still white knuckling it right, you’re just still getting to that 30 days and the 60 days with a 100 day mark. And typically, you’ll start drinking again, you have to really get to that point where you’re stretching yourself, and you’re mourning it. And that means that you Yeah, that you have to, what did you say that?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  25:39

Yes, you have to kill the guests, right? Yes, is when you really, really, really want to drink. And as Christie describes it, in this essay, she was like, I just wandered my house for three hours, I looked at all the books, I sat there wanting it and you know, ate something instead. And I took the dogs for the walk. And she was like, and that was my first day of sobriety. Wanting it. And you’re not giving in and she’s like, I am a, you know, I know her. She lives in Seattle, she worked at Amazon for decades. She, you know, has a Graduate Degree. And she’s like, I am a, well to do woman, who runs marathons and went to Grad School and just heads is very hard job. And she’s like, and yet I had never really held on through the three hours when I wanted to drink, which I’m like, I have been there. I have been there. You know, like, if you want it, you think that you have to have it, which is crazy when we all do so many things in life. Where we want something and we don’t do it. You know what I mean?

 

26:41

Yeah, we are stronger than we think we are. Yeah, we are and we look around and all of the amazing women in our life we’ve been through and done really hard things and we have to. And I, this is so beautiful, because this is really my mission and purpose. And, and really guiding people through this lifestyle change is that we have to get comfortable in the uncomfortable, we have to get uncomfortable in that space and in the cravings. Because what that does is, it builds trust within ourselves. And when we can build trust within ourselves, then we can start trusting the external world. We can start trusting our friends and our family, but then just society as a whole. And then, when that happens, it snows ball, snowballs into being able to change the world. Right? And isn’t that really what it’s all about? It is creating the space for our kids and our grandkids. And to just model what like, purely trusting our intuition and trusting others really is.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  27:49

So, I love that but um, but I want you to talk more about it because I’m a you know, how do you help women get comfortable with the uncomfortable especially in early sobriety and not? white knuckle it through? Right not hate the process?

 

28:07

Yeah. Well, again, like you said about the Yes. You know, is what I did is I spent the first six weeks and sleep was my superpower. Right as I was like every I’m going to do the bare minimum of things with the children and then go to bed at you know, right when they’re in bed. I go to bed until your kids, when you quit drinking.

 

28:31

Let’s see my five and three. No, two, yes. two and five.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  28:39

Okay, yeah, mine were two and eight.

 

So yeah, yeah, no, and it was I mean, I, what I did basically is, I really just switched up the whole entire evening routine because I knew what my triggers were when I was making dinner. And when I was giving the kids bath, those were like the big triggers. So what I did is, I made peanut butter and jelly lunches, put them in the stroller and I would go on a walk at five o’clock. So they were eating sandwiches in the stroller. When it was bath time, instead of doing bath time right before bed. I did bath time, you know, at five o’clock. Or right after we went on our walk, I would give them popsicles. I allowed them to watch TV, which I never did before. Because I felt guilty. I felt like I needed to be a super mom. And if I was, it was kind of one of those things where I don’t have a drinking problem because you know, my kids don’t. My kids don’t watch any TV.

 

29:33

Yeah, exactly right. And then I was like, I’m okay with actually them watching and watching tablet while I go and I hide in my bed. Like, I spent a lot of time in my covers. And that’s what really happens is. It’s called the pattern interruption. If we don’t have this really big pattern interruption in our lives, then actually it becomes harder. So, what I always tell women, I was like, don’t say I’m going to go out and have. I’m happier with my friends and just sit there and watch them drink. Because you know, I don’t want to be the, you know, antisocial. But you get to the point where you can do this. But, you don’t want to have this huge amount of friction at the beginning. You want to try to do things differently. So it doesn’t feel like you’re white knuckling it. But if, again, if you’re not feeling that moment of mourning it, then I feel like you’re really not doing something right, because you’re continuing to try to pretend like it’s not an issue.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  30:30

Well, I think I love that you said that. And I love what you said about sort of, I took away two things. One was changing your patterns, changing what you do, when you’re about to drink, which in my mind, I immediately go to sort of the science of behavior change, and that we all have this like, cue-craving- response-reward cycle. And so you have to interrupt that cue. And it seems counterintuitive, but for us, when we’re drinking, I drink every day of the week, q was time of day, he was my house key was walking in the door from the garage, he was driving by the grocery store, where I would buy my wine, like everything was a cue. So I love when you talked about like, going out for a walk with the pb&j is like you’re leaving that situation. A lot of women I know they like don’t go home right after work, they go to the gym, or they go get a smoothie, you know, and even drive a different way home from work. And in the beginning, you were you’re both changing those queues, you’re also building your bubble, right? Because you’re right, if you go out to just sit in a bar or sit wherever with a bunch of people who are drinking, just the sight of alcohol, just even walking into the place that is a cue to drink and it triggers your mind to want the reward. Whereas, if you weren’t there, if you were up in your bedroom, like binge eating on a show, like, I have a client right now who’s like doing early sobriety with shits Creek and I’m like, God bless you. Because you need to build a bubble where you’re not constantly seeing the glamorization of alcohol, just to give yourself a chance to get stronger? Because you will. I mean, I go out to bars pre COVID all the time have a non-alcoholic beer. It’s no big deal. But I’m not as fragile as I was in early sobriety.

 

32:22

Yeah, it’s interesting that you said fragile because I actually look back on that time now. And I love that Camille. I love that fragile, Camille. That was like, every, I mean, I remember saying that I cried more. During that moment, I cried as much as I did when I was a teenager, during that time, and it just felt totally exposed in a new and different way. And the thing is, too, is and you mentioned this before is typically well. I’ve worked with women who have had two decades of drinking. Yep. And then it’s something where we have to change our habits. We’ve had these habits, these same type of responses for 20 years. And so, if we put ourselves in this scenario, where we’re just going to happy hour with our friends, still, we’re not creating new habits. We’re not creating a new life, which is ultimately what we’re looking for. I was thinking about this the other day, like, why do women really want to quit drinking? Like, why did I really want to quit drinking. And like I mentioned, I got bored of hearing myself say the same things. I wanted a different life. And what I was doing, it kept putting me in, like if I could have had a different life and continued drinking, I would have. But what I recognized from experience, right, by reflecting back on my past years, is that it wasn’t getting me where I want it to go. So that is what… that’s why I quit drinking.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  33:53

Yeah, you know, that’s what ultimately, I quit drinking. And so I knew this vision of the person I want it to be and I knew that there was something that was so… what was your vision, like, give me the high level of like, this is the person who I imagined that I would be without alcohol.

 

Yeah. 100% connected to other people without feeling like I needed to do something. Like when I would go into a room even with my, my family, I would always feel fidgety. You know, like, what’s the next thing like I couldn’t really just be present. And so what happened was in the earlier years, you know, I would drink and then that would get me to sit down and actually look and have a conversation with somebody. But what I was is that I remember that I felt more connected. I would remember reflect back on when I was in high school and I felt more connected to who I was when I was in high school like those crazy years. Yeah, and I did when I was in my 30s. And so I was I really wanted to know that I really wanted to know her again. And so that was this idea of like who you know the strong woman for two boys who could figure out how to guide them and in their life where they see a woman who doesn’t really need to like you know to zone out who can say I’m sorry and can be a good role model but really ultimately I just wanted to trust me I just wanted to know myself yeah I wanted to really know myself yeah and I guess does that make sense to you because that for me that really like I know what that means

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  35:36

I do. I feel like everyone has a vision of who they are in their best self and when we’re drinking problematically like, I was getting further and further away from that person and it’s easy you know you’re being satisfied kind of by so little like I was holding out for my bottle of wine at 6pm that was literally the highlight of my day every day and you know on weekends you dress it up right it’s mimosas at brunch and it’s a date night but it basically is the same thing and so I wanted my life to be bigger and more exciting and I wanted to be proud of myself and feel strong in my body and just feel emotionally stronger so you know I think it does help to be like you know when you start like 100 days from now picture yourself how do you want to feel what’s your daily life going to be like how are you gonna feel when you wake up what kinds of things are you going to do what might you be wearing in that season like literally figure out what day it is and be like alright for me you know 100 days was like June 10 I was like what will I look like and feel like and be doing on June 10 and I was like I’m going to be riding my bike like and I have ridden my bike in like three years you know what I mean but I was like I’m gonna be that girl in a tank top riding my bike smiling you know getting a latte whatever it was. I was like, I kind of needed to hold on to that.

 

37:08

Yeah, absolutely. I think that and I love that I and I think that visioning where you want to be in exactly like you said like smell it hear it feel it what are you going to be wearing who are you going to be with how are you going to feel in your body how are other people going to be relating to you how are you relating to other people is so profound and really even every morning when you wake up have that visualization going through your head it’s all about reprogramming the subconscious and that’s actually how we do it so I love that absolutely is interesting because what the other thing going back to what your original question was about you know who I wanted to be I think one of the other really big pieces was them of you know physician assistant I work in direct patient care and family practice and endless whole while I’m diagnosing and I’m treating liver disease and people who have lung cancer and people who have anxiety and low grade depression and abdominal issues and they’re drinking wine as a way to self-medicate and I remember sitting there and saying like if you quit drinking these things will improve yet what I was doing after a stressful day of seeing 20 patients and practices opening up a bottle of wine when I got home and I felt like there was a huge disconnect in it was a hypocrite you know I was I was I was not walking the walk and that right there when you’re not living your values that’s huge disconnect yeah and you feel separate from yourself and I think that that was one of the bigger things for me is recognizing that I didn’t really think that my patients could do it because I couldn’t and just like imagine, you know, that your patients would feel that same thing. It’s like your clients, if you don’t really feel like your clients will quit drinking, they’ll feel that.

 

Yeah, you know and so, that was huge.

 

And so, like, I wanted to actually be the model of what I was actually telling my patients.

 

39:26

Well, so, I know you work with women in early sobriety. I do too. What is your, what’s the process that you go through, like, how do you help women who want to feel better who are sitting there saying but I don’t really want to stop drinking? The whole point of this episode is like, yeah, you don’t have to succeed and nobody wants to and if you’re listening to this and you’re like yeah, I know drinking isn’t serving me, but I don’t want to quit. We’re here to say, that’s okay. Nobody does. You can feel better anyway. So like, how do they do that?

 

40:05

Yeah, absolutely. So I have a method, it’s called the COZY method. And this C stands for Consistency. So really what we’re looking at there, is creating new habits, and your rituals. And I know that you’re really focused on that – on the habit feedback loop, as well. And so, really looking at that, right looking at, you’re looking at your cues and behaviors and the rewards that you get from that, and really understanding what you get from alcohol, because the thing is, is that we trained ourselves to drink, we’ve trained ourselves to drink, because it would help us in some way, right? It helps us relax, or helps us connect or helps us celebrate. So, we trained ourselves throughout our lives to respond to a certain scenario by drinking. And so really, what we look at first is what that is like, what is your true reason behind drinking? And then we update that we update your database and asking ourselves, is it true currently? Is it true in all circumstances? Do you need to drink to connect? Right? Like, every single time, you can’t connect without it? You know? And so then we start saying, oh, okay, actually, I have been able to connect without drinking, I can have fun without drinking, and then start recognizing when those happened throughout the time that we have together.

 

41:31

I love that I do very similar things, but I’m loving everything you’re saying. Because it’s like, okay, I want to drink. Why is it because you’re bored? Is it because you’re lonely? Is it because you feel like you’re going to connect with this person more? And then you’re actually like, individually doing that work? Right? That’s what you’re saying and digging in?

 

41:51

Yeah, absolutely. And recognizing that we created this, because that’s the way our bodies like, we love habits, our brains love habits, every single thing we do as a habit, guys, 98% of the things that we do is have what we think is a have our emotions, our habits, the way that we respond to, to life and our behaviors, our habits. So what we do is we not only look at our behaviors, our but what our thoughts are, and what our thoughts are about ourselves in certain scenarios. Because typically, what leads us to have that have that drink is also what we tell ourselves about not being strong enough, you know, and we’re telling, oh, my God, why am I craving this, you know, like, I know, it’s not good for me. And so, it’s really looking at setting aside that story. And that habit of telling of that negative self-talk, because the way we show up in one part of our lives is the way that we show up in other parts of our lives. So if that’s the way you’re talking to yourself about alcohol, and that’s more than likely how you’re talking to yourself when you’re at work, or the way that you’re talking to yourself when you are relating to your children, you know, so really recognizing that and consistency too. And then creating new rituals, creating something that we do every day consistently, like make our bed. I’m a huge bed maker, right now. And so what we want to do is create these things that are a little bit more satisfying. So even if you do drink the night before or not, you’re still making that damn bed. Or you’re still drinking that, you know that lemon water, whatever it might be, that you created. So that’s sort of the first step is really the first 30 days. So usually, it’s a three month container. And really, that first 30 days is getting really clear about why our habits, creating new habits, creating new rituals, getting and really in tune with your thought patterns and your emotions. And gently looking at those without putting aside the story. And then the second part is ownership is that we really have to take ownership for where we are and where we are in our lives, you know, and the fact that we’ve created this pattern over 20 years now, alcohol itself is an addictive substance, we get that you need to know that you need to recognize how it affects the body and how it affects the mind and how it connects. It affects the connection to spirit into you know, into yourself, right? That’s really important. And so, we have to be the ones that take ownership, we have to take ownership of our parasympathetic nervous system and our sympathetic nervous system, our fight and flight, like, how are we showing up all day long? We’re usually running hot fight.

 

Yeah. And then we’ve had decision fatigue, we can’t make good decisions. And so, we actually have to take ownership and responsibility of how we start the day and then how we respond every hour on the hour until we go to bed. You know.

 

It is just like taking breaks throughout the day to decompress making sure you eat, like, go for a walk. What’s, what’s your recommendation there?

 

45:02

Well, first off, you have to recognize when you’re in the green zone or in the red zone. And so you have to recognize that red zone are is the fight or flight. So if you’re at a 10 that means you’re screaming and yelling at your, you know, your kids or your boss or whomever your employees. That’s like a 10. Right. But usually what where people are is a seven or an eight throughout the day. So we have tense shoulders, tense jaw headache, we were our digestive system isn’t really settled. If somebody does, like, if we spill a glass, and we say, Oh, God, you know, that means that we’re actually in that way, did you recognize that in me this morning, because I just have just jumped on this call. And I’m realizing I was 100% in the red zone. I was like, my son woke up late. And then he gave me, you know, attitude about it. I had to get him to school and get him home and jump on this podcast. And I was totally, like, irritated, aggravated, pissed off. And so, I was like, yep, as you’re describing it. I was like, yeah, it was an eight there. I’m feeling better. This is helping me. This, and you’re getting back into the green zone.

 

46:15

So, what’s most important is that we have to recognize that we are in these different zones throughout the day. So that’s the first thing before doing anything else. And you can do that by setting your timer and actually like checking in, like, where am I right now. And our goal is expressed to us healthy mechanisms in order to get us closer to like the, so it goes from red, yellow to green. So the green is where you feel completely connected, and that peace and all of that. And then really, if you’re in the yellow, you’re doing okay, if you’re in the low yellow, you’re doing okay, right? Because, you know, we’re not totally blissed out all the time in the green. That’s just life. That’s just like, right, so we want to get ourselves to the yellow, low yellow into the green. I mean, really, ultimately, that’s where like I want to be, that’s where I want to be the majority of the time. And so we do stuff, like just taking a break going outside, like you were saying, taking deep breaths, but we have to recognize where we are first. So that’s the most important thing. Where are you on the red, yellow, green scale. And then that’s another piece of taking ownership, right, we have to take ownership for, for asking what we need, and then doing it. Right. That’s the hard part. And that’s the other thing when we go back to consistency is that we like track that. And we’re like, oh, I actually have a habit of feeling stressed out, because this keeps me safe. Right, these zones keep us safe. And we need to recognize like alcohol keeps us safe. It keeps us in the comfortable area, like the mobile right above the kid’s bed, you quit drinking, it removes that mobile, everything is all caddywhompus. And what we want to do, even if it was a horrible existence, we start drinking and because everybody knows what’s going to happen, because we have this experience of what’s going to happen. And so what we have to do is recognize that we need to fill that little area with something else. But we have to recognize what we need first, right?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  48:14

We have to act because even if it’s kind of like a just okay, kind of shitty lukewarm kind of existence. It’s comfortable, right? Yeah, if you’re used to it, and like, you know, what’s gonna happen? Yeah. And like, regardless of whether your spouse or partner or friends think you should drink less, like relationships are set up in a way where like, the dynamics are, you know, in some way, you know, when we’re drinking, we ask for less, we demand less, we overcompensate, you know, like, there’s some dynamic with your partner where they’re getting something out of the way stuff is, or changes uncomfortable for anyone, like I know, partners who are like, gosh, if she stops drinking, will she still like me? Will she still need me? Or women? Or like, if I stopped drinking? Will he still like me? Will I be friends? So I mean, if you’re listening to this, and you’ve had all these subconscious things that you don’t even realize, that are pulling you back to drinking these limiting beliefs or fears or fear, fear of change in the unknown in your relationships, like, that is normal. You are so right. where everybody is. So just give yourself a little bit of an easier time about it.

 

49:30

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, with. So, my husband and I were drinking buddies. We were married 10 years before we had kids. And we talked about every time we were hung over I was like, oh, let’s like not drink for a week, you know? And then three days later, I’m like, What do you want, beer, wine? Yeah. And, and so when I actually went on that 100 days when I started this journey, and I told myself, and I was worried about that. I was absolutely worried. How are we going to connect that’s the only time We actually have sex, you know, but also like talk because we actually are really good talkers together. communicators. And, and but I told myself was like, I have to choose myself. Yeah. And, and I chose myself every day until a year and a half later, he quit drinking too and I never asked him to.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  50:21

Oh, my house and my husband still drinks and we were definitely drinking buddies, but he’s more of a normie I mean, he, you know, has a beer or two beers most days, but not like me, I would drink until it was gone, or I passed out.

 

50:37

Yeah, no, he my husband, but he never said he didn’t do it unless we went on a date night. And then he would have a drink or three pints, and then I wouldn’t want to have sex with them. So I was like, Well, you know, just let you know. Like, this is what Don’t touch me. Yeah, that kind of change that after you quit drinking.

 

50:56

Yeah, exactly. Um, and then in then. And then, what he ended up doing is he was very responsible in the sense that he wasn’t, you know, opening up beer every night. But when I would go to sleep, he would go, because remember, I was going to bed really early. He would want his home to watch a show or something. And then he would have brandy. And then he was noticing that I always say that he just saw me take off. And he was like, Oh, crap, I better you know, change my ways. If I want to

keep my keep up?

 

51:29

Yeah, I think he would probably explain it a little bit differently. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, it’s choosing yourself. So, I always tell women, like every morning, you have to choose yourself and then so that the Z part is, is, is zooming in and out. So what I say is that, like we touched on, who do you want to be in this world? Who? And then what do you do every day? What values? What habits? What behaviors do you have to do in order to be that person? And then sometimes, people aren’t clear, right? They’re like, I don’t know what I want. And that’s because we haven’t asked ourselves what we really truly want in life anymore. Because we’re scared of what the answer is going to be. We’re scared that that’s going to be dramatically change who we are. What I love about this work is you have to be courageous and brave. Yeah, that’s what the power is. And that’s where, like how, why you can feel so dang proud of yourself.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  52:27

What I love that you’re just saying that I’m realizing this coming out in each of these is, yes, it’s about removing the alcohol. But it’s also about wanting more for your life and fear of change, which is so universal in terms of holding us back. And like, that’s so huge. It’s about wanting more for your life, or your happiness, or your joy or your health, and just believing that you can do it, and believing that it’s worth it. I just think that like that just came out so clear to me in the past couple of, you know, c o z that you’ve been talking about.

 

53:07

And that is I think why having a Coach is so important. Because what we do is we hold that vision. Right? We hold the vision, we’re like, What do you want? You want to not drink for X amount of days. But why do you really want that? Yeah, and because right, remember, we no one wants to quit drinking. So it’s like, but what is the real reason? It’s not really for your kids? I mean, it could be, but what is it? What is that? What is the legacy, you know, the not drinking legacy that you really want to leave. And so as coaches, what we do is we hear that and then we stick to it. We’re like we see that vision so clearly for you that we’re gonna hold you throughout our experience together and remind you of that.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  53:52

Well, I love that because in the beginning, I’m always like, let’s get really clear in the beginning because I’m all about forward looking. And I think you can’t shame or berate yourself well, and in early sobriety, it’s way too early to try to beat yourself up. Because you need to be really proud of yourself but we document and dig into and women listening can do this on their own, you know, you know the reason in the vision, the reason you want to stop drinking what you want to stop feeling, which for me was so clear. I was writing it on notes in my phone every fucking morning when I woke up like, I’m so sad. I feel like everything that happens is going to be the straw that breaks its camel’s back. I feel awful. Like I knew that reason. And the vision is, Who is that woman you want to feel? What do you want your life to look like? What are you going to feel when you wake up in the morning? What are you going to accomplish? And then you’re right that vision and your reason is what holds you through that time as long as you center yourself on it. Because you do want more for yourself and it is hard Yeah,

 

55:01

yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You have to envision who, who you want to be, and then remind yourself of that. And I think that’s the other thing is that when you’re on this journey, and you’re still going in and out of like drinking and not drinking, as when you wake up in the morning, you tell yourself, I learned something last night. I’m learning still that I don’t want to feel this way in the morning, you know? And you’re like, so what if you say, if you’ve said that 100 1000 times, you’re still learning. And so you could be like, Whoa, okay, I know even more now today, but I don’t want to feel this way every day. And this is funny. My husband I were talking about this morning, like, I how not being hungover. Like, it never gets old, you know, being hangover free, never, ever, ever gets old. And I think that what you have to recognize, too, on the mornings, that you don’t wake up with a hangover, you have to feel into that. You can’t just like whiz by, you have to say, Oh my gosh, I feel so amazing. Because the more that you can hype up those feelings of just feeling awesome, the more you’re going to be attracted to that.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  56:12

I call it like actually recognizing your sober treats, and like actually telling yourself like, this is my treat for being sober. Whatever it is getting a massage, you’re spending money on that. Instead of spending money on wine. For me, it is quiet mornings with coffee, alone in my living room, that is my treat for being sober. Because, you know, when you’re drinking, you roll out of bed late, you’re pissed off, you feel like shit, you’re trying to overcompensate, your adrenaline and emotions are all over the place. You slept horribly, like just getting up an hour early to drink coffee and like get under a blanket and read the New York Times like that is my jam.

 

56:55

Yeah, girl, I knew we were friends for a reason. That is exactly my thing, too. I love waking up early and having that time to myself. So, the last piece of the cozy method is the Y and that’s Yes. Because if it isn’t a hell yes, then it’s a no. And that means really creating boundaries. Because again, we have alluded to this about you know, it’s so self-serving alcohol is serving our partners or our family, ourselves in some way. And so we really have to recognize how we create truly caring for oneself. And I know that you may be familiar, I’m sure with the halt method, right? Hungry, angry, lonely, tired. And I like to add, though, overwhelmed, and what I like, born to those awesome. Yeah, and really what I like to look at that acronym being used for is yes to, for it to help curb cravings. But really, that’s what we can use as our self-care acronym. You know, we’re like, how, if I need to figure out how to care for myself, can I do any of these things? Can I feed myself something nutritious? Can I call a friend? Can I take a dang nap? You know, in really recognizing that that’s actually creating a boundary and no one’s allowed to interfere? And that’s just starting off super simple, right? Well, you know, super simple acronym that you can you can start working for and then building out the boundaries from there, what relationships serve you what relationships don’t, what needs to die away naturally, what needs to actually have, you know, have a conversation about but so often, there’s some codependency issues that are tied in with people who drink because a lot of times family members drink, put dad’s mom’s prior to that. And so as children, we learned how to be codependency based on that. And so that’s why boundaries are really important.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  59:02

Yeah, I completely agree. And I think that a lot of us who drink are really sensitive to other people’s emotions, or like, uncomfortable with conflict uncomfortable with other people being upset. And so we sort of bend over backwards trying to mitigate that. And it’s really hard. I mean, I consider myself sort of the awesome combination of a people pleaser and an overachiever, you know, just that inherent I, you know, I will be loved if I do for others. And sobriety, you really start doing that work that we never did, because you do need boundaries. And I actually, it’s one of the hardest things that women do is to say, No, I mean, there are all these reasons we feel like we should say yes, including most successful, competent women are like, I can do it faster and better than other people and it should be done. And I’ve actually got a link to this. I’ve got a blog post or a guide on the nice girls guide to say no, because there’s actually a five step formula for like how to do it without feeling like a slacker or feeling like a bitch. And you can practice it, right? Like there’s, you know, the sandwich of like, thank them for doing it. Say No, they’re like scripts for what you can say, you know, encourage them, I know you’re going to find the right person to do it, you know, change the subject, move on. Like, there, there is a formula that makes it easier because this was huge for me, right? I didn’t want anyone to ever not like me or not think I was chipping in. And you need that space when you’re stopping drinking for self-care.

 

1:00:41

Yeah, absolutely. And it’s also evolutionary, right? We don’t want to be kicked out of our clan or tribe by being different. And so we try to conform and fit in and especially when we’re doing something as wild and crazy as not drinking in a society that’s obsessed with alcohol, it can feel like that. And absolutely, I love that you have a guide. Is that something that you created?

 

1:01:08

Yeah. And I can just, I’ll just link to it in the show notes. I would love to share that too. That is, that is so, so important, and so brilliant. The other thing that was interesting is I feel like a lot of highly sensitive people, too, are drinkers because that’s how we learn to cope earlier on. Interestingly, one of the women I work with or had worked with before, she said that the reason why she drank because she felt too much. Like she was just too big of a personality and a space. And so she felt like drinking actually allowed her to be that way, her natural self, which I thought was really interesting. And I think it’s because we typically attract people who are similar to us, but I don’t attract usually the big huge personalities like that, too. But I also, I guess what I want to do is just reflect that that’s also a reason that we drink is because we’re like, oh, we can be loud and obnoxious not saying that she was obnoxious, but just you know, big personality. And this gives me the right to do it. Because this is why when people who drink they can do it. So recognizing that it’s a big one for me, I feel like I was like such a people pleaser and self-conscious. And always trying to like read the room and see what other people think by drinking, I was able to turn off my mind. And like be more free. You know, I’m thinking in college in my early 20s like I loved the idea of if I drank quote unquote, anything could happen, because I wouldn’t be holding myself back. Truth is like as it went on, I didn’t remember fucking anything that happened. So that was fabulous.

 

1:02:41

I’m working with a woman right now that she’s like, it just allowed me to be spontaneous. You know, I was the A student and I was the one who was really focused on studies and she’s like, and it allowed me just to be that, you know, the wild one who knows what’s gonna happen when we hang out with her tonight? Yeah, for me, it was. I was more of this pensive introvert. And so, it allowed me to be and I was told I was told by one of my girlfriends’ boyfriends at the time, no one needs to know all of you and your thoughts Camille, like he told me that. Like, you are just, you know, you share too much of you, of your thoughts. And now it’s funny because this is what I do for a living, is why cuz that’s what I’m attracted to. But I was like, oh, okay, so when I drink I could be like, more superficial, more, you know, surly and you know, just kind of show up and just be Malley versus intimate.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:03:33

Yeah, well, and I think that like one of the coolest things about stopping drinking is that you actually get to know yourself for the first time without like peeling back all the layers of what you did you know that inner critic voice to like fit in and to avoid being criticized or avoid being you know, othered and realize that like, when you live in alignment with who you are, not only is it so much more peaceful and less stressful, but also you kind of can find your people and do what you always needed to do like in the same way like I felt like relating to people connecting having real conversations getting honest is who I was in high school it’s what always lit me up and then yet I went into the corporate world and was trying to you know, the whole imposter syndrome of I can’t ever let anyone see any of the uncertainty under the surface and always be on and that’s not who I was. That’s not what led me up. So once you stop drinking, you get to whoever you are, just be more at peace with that, and it’s not scary anymore. Like I quit drinking when I was 40. Like it was about fucking time. I got comfortable in my own skin.

 

1:04:52

Exactly. I mean, Brené Brown has a midlife unraveling. I love that. It is seriously one of my favorite Article as you guys can just Google it, I go back to it time and time again. But it’s so true is that we have to just stop numbing, in order to really be able to get into connection with who we are. If we continue to them, we’ll never do that. And this is our one and only opportunity in this life. So why not? Why not? Like start getting to know ourselves? And that takes courage.

 

1:05:25

Yes, I love that. So, I want to ask you just a couple questions as we wrap up. I’ve loved this conversation since the first time we talked, I feel like we’re so aligned and have similar philosophies and experiences and all the things which is why I love working with you. And so what would you say to women who are at that early phase or at the debating phase are like, I know, I want to feel better, and yet, I don’t want to stop.

 

1:05:57

Yeah, absolutely. So that, and I mentioned this a little bit earlier, the most important thing is, is you have to continuously show up for you every single day. And so whatever that means, if it means that you’re slipping up, you made it a week, and then you’re drinking again, that next day, say I learned something, I learned something about myself, I learned something more about what I don’t want, and I choose myself again today. That’s the really the biggest.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:06:26

Yeah, I guess I used to still do and I advise all the women I work with, to wake up every morning and ask themselves, how can I take care of myself today? while they’re still in bed. And the reason I love that is it makes you do a quick body scan, and a quick scheduled scan, because we’re all busy multitasking tons of to do lists. And it makes you say, you know, okay, let me tune in and my anxious, overwhelmed, bored lonely, have I not connected with someone? Do I need more fun? Do I need a break during the day, and like it just plants the seed that I’m going to do one thing to take care of myself today. And that makes all the difference?

 

1:07:10

I love that. And that ties in with looking at this scale at your eat the green to rack with exact wake up in the morning and say where am I on this scale. And so because as we know, if we wake up on the quote unquote, wrong side of the bed, then that’s when we spill the coffee on our white pants, that’s when we slam our you know, lock our keys in the car. And that’s when it just snowballs. And so if we can catch it at the beginning and say, Alright, so maybe I set my alarm for seven and I need that extra 30 minutes not because we’re trying to procrastinate the inevitable but because we truly need to just rest or we need to eliminate that one activity during the day. We need to schedule more break time. I love that. So I love the body scan and then and then writing it. Yeah, when you read it throughout the day to see I know where you are. And that’s the what do I need right now? Yeah.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:08:07

Awesome. Well, I know women are listening to this, they’re gonna want to follow up with you and learn more. So, tell us how women can get in touch with you.

 

1:08:15

Yeah, so thinkbeyondthedrink.com or @thinkbeyondthedrink Instagram. And I have a sober curious group in Facebook. So I think it’s think beyond the drink slash sober curious. And then I have a guide. It’s the Love Your Liver guide. It’s an integrative approach to cleansing your liver. So if you guys want to grab that, that will be available too.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:08:42

Awesome. Well, I will put all the links to that in the show notes as well as the nice girls guide to saying no and anything else we mentioned on this podcast. So thank you so much, Camille, it was my pleasure to have you on.

 

1:08:57

Oh, I loved it.