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How To Get Over Imposter Syndrome Without A Drink with Amy Liz Harrison

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

feel, drinking, drink, mom, kids, totally, sobriety, impostor syndrome, helped, friends, idea, live, sober, women, love, day, remember, girl, life, perceive, parents, fear-based, value

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Amy Liz Harrison

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a buzz, how to sit with your emotions when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Today,  we are going to talk about

how to get over impostor syndrome.

I know that for myself. Feeling insecure. Feeling like, I was a perfectionism and I had unrealistic high standards for myself. I thought that a lot of my success was due to luck. And I was going to be quote unquote, “found out” and had this overwhelming fear of failure in the office sometimes, which led me to overwork and to seek positive reinforcement way more than I needed to.

So, this was a conversation that I really wanted to have because it impacts a ton of women who are that great combination of overachiever, and people pleaser, and looking for approval and acceptance. And I know I drink too quiet some of those feelings and on business trips and happy hours and business dinners to feel more at ease.

So, my guest today is Amy Liz Harrison, and she hosts the podcast Eternally Amy, a sober mom of 8. Journey from jail to joy. She lives in Seattle, we have a lot of friends in common, which is fantastic. She joins others in sobriety on her podcast to share their experiences with recovery, sober parenthood, spirituality, the deconstruction of faith, addiction and mental health and wellness. And that’s a lot but she does it with ease. A little bit about Amy, she is a mother of eight biological children. Oh my god. That’s incredible. An author, a sobriety coach, and a recovery mental health advocate with 10 years of sobriety under her belt. She’s the best-selling author of Eternally Expecting, a mom of 8 gets sober and gives birth to a whole new life. Her own and eternally awkward. A future mom of eight reflects on mysteries of anxiety, ADHD, and coming of age in the 80s. So, let’s talk.

Amy Liz Harrison  03:53

Thank you for having me here. First of all, Casey, and I’m cracking up because even just listening to you read the bio, I’m like, Oh my gosh, you know, I’ve got to go back and change that. Like, I’ve been sober almost 13 years. And you know, this, that the other thing and it just what I heard was like, Oh, I’m behind, I got to go back and change this. I have to fix this. This is not up to date. This is different. And by running the oh, I messed up.

Oh my gosh, I feel you on that. Right.

And it’s just like these little things constantly in my life that I feel like oh my gosh, well, that’s yeah, that’s my responsibility. I need to go back and do that fix that make that better, whatever.

So, it just ironic that we’re talking about impostor syndrome.

So, I’m thrilled to be here and thanks for having me.

Casey McGuire Davidson  04:47

Yeah, welcome. I mean, I think the idea that the persistent belief that we are not as competent or as successful, as others perceive us to be despite evidence of accomplishments is something that we struggle with. And personally, I struggled with it mostly in the office. And I really do believe it’s part of the culture we’re raised in, it’s part of the idea that often in the office, it’s male dominated. And I always, you know, it’s a joke among my female colleagues that men get promoted, based on their potential, quote, unquote, potential as perceived by their bosses and management. And women get promoted based on their accomplishments, or essentially already doing the job that they’re not going to be promoted to. And if that’s really pervasive, of course, you feel like other people manage things with more ease. Right?

Amy Liz Harrison  05:54

Absolutely. And I know that I for sure have felt that anything that I accomplish in life, immediately, what I do is attribute it to something right, some external thing like, oh, well, you know, I was given this opportunity. And I, you know, was, somebody designed this contract that I signed, it wasn’t me, I didn’t. And while some of that is true, what always happens for me is, I fail to perceive my own successes or my own, like contributions to a perceived success, right, as having any value. And that’s just been like a resounding theme throughout my life. And, you know, I’m a Gen X kid grew up in the 80s, in Silicon Valley. And I’m here to tell you pretty much adopted the misbelief when I was a child that I was dumb, or slow or behind the times, or just couldn’t learn as quickly as my classmates and my friends. And while that particular demographic in that area does tend to have a lot of, or at least it did back then, right?

Over achieving families, right. And most of my friends were in the gate program, which stands for gifted and talented education, which I was not in, right. And so,, all of these things, were kind of like this perfect storm and recipe for this misbelief that I was dumb. And back then, of course, I didn’t know it. But I had ADHD, it was undiagnosed until my late 30s. And I really didn’t understand anything about you know, I mean, when many of us within that age bracket were in school, we didn’t know anything about these different learning styles. And I mean, it was kind of not a thing, you know, yeah. And so,, as time went on, and we get to have exposure to these different Oh, you know, what it started with, she’s a visual learner, or she’s a, you know, auditory learner, or whatever it is, you know, we just start to learn more about this stuff. And so,, for me, I would say,

how impostor syndrome showed itself back then.

And today is pretty much, this fear. This core fear that I’m going to wake up in the morning, and people are going to figure out that I have like, no idea what I’m doing in life in general, right? In whatever plate, I’m spinning. Whatever avenue I’m pursuing, that people will just go, oh, whatever. She has no clue, you know. And so,, after living with that, and, you know, I’m married to a very successful husband. And so,, I noticed these stark differences between the way that he and I perceive things, and messaging for sure.

I love that you brought up the whole the office example because that is just so true, too. It’s just the different perceptions that happen as a result of us not sometimes believing in ourselves or being assertive or pointing out, hey, you know what, I’m actually already doing that, and here’s how or whatever it is. But I know that, for me, personally, I could not anything that I accomplished. I could not own that and tell myself yeah, I’m really proud of that. I did a really good job. And I think partially that’s because I Still, at 47 years old, will my knee jerk reaction is to look around and rely on outside influences to define what success is. And then, I adopt that even if I don’t want that. So, then it’s like this weird dichotomy, right? Where I have to kind of rewind back, like the entire boat up and just go, Wait a minute. But what do I define as success? What does success look like for me? At the end of the day, I have to lay my head on the pillow. And the best place that I can lay my head on that pillow is a good conscience, right and at peace with myself. I’m not perfect at it. But I’m working on it. So, yeah.

Casey McGuire Davidson  10:54

I mean, it’s interesting. Gosh, I had so many thoughts as you’re talking. First of all, I love Gen X-ers. I am 48. So, I also grew up in the 80s and 90s, obviously, and that was sort of the latchkey generation, like you were on your own. A lot of the time, I remember, you know, walking home from school, punching in the code on my garage to get in. My mom came home at like, 7pm. You know, it cracks me up now, because my daughter’s in the other room. But if we had a snow day, you know, usually it was the era before working remotely, like, we would just be held on our own. And I also moved a lot. So, I really felt like I needed to fit in for some sort of emotional safety, and even physical safety and school, you know, when you’re bullied, you needed your tribe. But not only that, when you went somewhere you really wanted to fit in with the people around you. So, not only that, but I always kind of felt like, I needed to be the nicest and the most fun and sporty and never make waves.

And then, I went to boarding school. And I went to a fancy boarding school just because my parents lived overseas. And the government paid for me to live elsewhere. There was no good school, in the Countries I was in. And it was a joke at my boarding school that you could never be too rich, too blonde, or too thin. Like, there was competitive eating disorders. In my dorm, everybody was believed that lots of people were anorexic. And I felt like, I couldn’t even be good enough and having an eating disorder, which sounds bad. I tried it. I literally tried briefly, and I’m talking like, Oh, 2 weeks to be quote unquote, “anorexic” or blame it. And I was like, I can’t fucking do this. Like, it’s so bad. I don’t even have the robot like food.

Okay, people listening, I apologize. But you know, it carries through your life, even, you know, my husband, and we said, I had a daddy complex at work, despite it didn’t matter. By the way, if my boss was a woman or a man, like I wanted the pat on the head, I wanted the positive reinforcement. And I worked in industry where there were layoffs. Often in the companies I was in, you know, sometimes it was yearly layoffs. And so,, I was constantly insecure and felt like I had to hustle to maintain, you know, just maintain my financial security.

And it’s amazing how much that contributes to impostor syndrome.

Like, in the office. I felt like, I was too young, even though I was like, the youngest Director promoted in one of my companies. I felt like, you know, when I became a Sobriety Coach and Podcaster, I felt like people who had been sober longer than me would be like, Who the hell is she? What does she know? You know, I think I was 4 years sober when I became a Coach and a podcaster. I’m now 8 years sober. But it’s, you know, you feel insecure about everything. And then, we’re going to talk about how you overcome it because as you know, I drank to sort of quiet my mind, to quiet that insecurity when you’re out with colleagues or even out with friends. In College, like, you drink to be like, let me shut down these insecurities in my life and bond with these people. But once you stop drinking, you’re sort of confronted with navigating those emotions without that numbing. And that’s the work.

But I have to say, my imposter syndrome, and the peace of mind, and just the ability to accept the positive reinforcements, and believe in myself is like, 90% better than it was when I was drinking, because when I was drinking, I felt like I couldn’t cope with life. My anxiety was off the chart, you know, I didn’t want anyone to look at me too closely. Because I felt like if they knew I was drinking, they would be like, as much as I did. They would not want to be friends with me, they would not want to, you know, I wasn’t, it was a problem. You know what I mean?

Amy Liz Harrison  16:05

I absolutely do. And I can totally identify with everything that you said, when I was drinking, I think I started out as, okay, I want to be connected, I want to be included. You know, I want to be glamorous. I had young kids at home at the time, and I just wanted a break, you know, And so, I go to these book clubs, and I’m meeting people. And we were, you know, “fancy fancy”, or at least I thought so. Right. And so,, when I turned to more, like, oh, alcoholic type drinking, like this is actually gripping me, I’m not in control of this, this is controlling me, when it started spinning out of control. That’s what I was, like, I got to like, at least put on a show for everybody that I you know, I have this in the bag. And so,, I started saying things like, well, I could stop at any time or, you know, I’m just going through a, quote, “hard time right now”, unquote. And I’m not trying to minimize anything that I was experiencing. But we all did that.

Casey McGuire Davidson  17:18

The rationalization, it’s totally right to protect your drinking, and yet, you know, keep drinking, at least that’s what it was for me.

Amy Liz Harrison  17:28

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, I was the person going, Oh, yeah. Well, I’m just working so hard with my therapist. We’re just going through a lot right now. And then I had Nalgene bottles in my purse full of vodka that I planned on drinking at the therapist session, because the way you drank at therapists? Yes, girl? Yes, I did. Yeah. And so,, for me, it was this overcompensating all the time, like damage control, right? Like, let me make this appear a certain way. So that I can feel like, you’re not worried about me, or you’re not going to say anything, or you’re going to still hang out with me. And in my mind, I’m like creating all these fictitious scenarios. And P.S., I’m here to tell you everybody knew I was overdrinking. Everybody knew. So, it was me who was lying to myself essentially, anyway, and trying to come up with this, like, this whole scenario that I was fine when I wasn’t.

So, I think two part of all of that was in the area where we live now in Seattle, it was kind of a similar like, oh, you know, this is you meet people. This is so And so,. She’s the former President of whatever organization and club. And she was the Sales Director at this company, and blah, blah, blah, and all these really high achieving women, or at least what society you know, has told us as a high achieving woman, right? And then me feeling immediately inferior. My background, being in a short stint of teaching 10th Grade English before I got pregnant with my first kid. And so,, immediately that would set the bar that like, oh, well, I’m, I’m below her. And so,, then drinking to kind of make myself feel like oh, well, I’m going to build this authentic connection with her. And I’m going to do that through liquid courage.

Yeah, and then feeling like, you know, as time went on, here, here, all these domestic things that people were doing, right that set them a bar, sort of above me, at least in my own mind, right. Oh, so And so, she’s got this amazingly perfect magazine worthy house at all times. She never has the pile of laundry sitting there on the couch, you know, eight kids. Like, what the hell?

Casey McGuire Davidson  20:02

Like, how can you possibly I have to, and myself and my husband and I’m just like, I shut the guestroom door and like you don’t fit, right? Yeah, for sure.

Amy Liz Harrison  20:15

For sure. And then these, you know, these strange kind of ideals that, that somehow everything that’s perfectly put away and just so is somehow better than the guestroom with the closed door with the laundry all over the place, like so then there’s all these like, well, that’s better, this is worse. And so, this black and white kind of thinking that, you know, we sort of cling on to because that’s kind of what we’ve learned. And, oh, okay, this is acceptable.

This is not acceptable, right. And so, there was that, and then I become friends with all these women who are full on gourmet cooks. I mean, Gourmet cooks, right. And so, then here’s me showing up to the gathering with my crock pot, you know, meat balls from Costco with like, you know, a jar of crab cranberry jelly thrown in there, you know, nothing like totally just this kind of 70s dump, and dump meal. And just feeling like I really was not really at their level feeling pretty subpar. Right?

Casey McGuire Davidson  21:29

I have to say that once I stopped drinking, and you’re more honest, and you’re more vulnerable, just because you don’t tolerate small talk as much like everybody’s, you know, everybody’s like, Oh, I’m fine. But I’m so busy. You know that the general thing, once I got more vulnerable, and talk to people, honestly, they all opened up to me, and even the people who I thought were perfect, have shit going on, have shit going on where they too, don’t feel good enough, or they’re struggling with things. And it may not be necessarily what I’m struggling with. But it is valid and real. And it is not completely in your head that you feel this way.

I mean, I remember a couple of times, but when in specific, where I was a director at this global company, I was the youngest woman were youngest anyway, but youngest woman promoted to that level, and it was company basically of old British men. And my boss, who is nice guy literally told me, you need to speak more slowly. In meetings, you need to be less excited. And I was the Director of frigging Entertainment Imagery. I mean, we were talking about Britney Spears and Lindsay Lohan, and, you know, Angelina Jolie photography back in the day, and all these British man, I’m like, Dude, you don’t get my customer base. I do. Like, I was subscribing to, like, people in touch and Entertainment Tonight. So, these old guys, I’m like, I am way closer and understand our audience better than you. And yet, I felt I was too young. And this is weird.

I’m 5’3. I always felt like, I was too short to be taken seriously. I needed to be taller, and I needed to dress better. I never had the right clothes. And I was never thin enough or pretty enough, you know, to be taken seriously or to be respected or whatever it was. And that just carries through. And it’s so dumb. I mean, it really is. But it is hard to get out of your own head.

One of my favorite quotes that I keep on, you know, a bulletin board in my office is basically it says like,

Girl, if you could see yourself for one minute, the way the rest of the world sees you. You’d be amazed.

And one of the projects that I’ve done that a coach told me to do as she calls it, the essence project. And basically, you text everyone you know, like colleagues, close colleagues, colleagues that you don’t know very well your mother, your sister, your best friend, your husband, your kid and say, Hey, can you give me three words you think of when you think of me to describe me? And they were so consistent, but also so positive that I was like, I go around thinking this about myself and that about myself. And, you know, the most positive thing is like, I’m really nice, you know. And there was such a range that made me feel really good. Like, I actually had it on my wall for years just to be like, This is what the rest of the world experiences about me. And there was none. She’s really short and too chubby. I got a sight. But Liz, you know, you’re being nice. But literally, I don’t think that’s what comes to mind.

Casey McGuire Davidson 

Hi there. If you’re listening to this episode, and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit.

 

The Sobriety Starter Kit is an online self study sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step by step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one on one coaching. And the sobriety starter kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it. And when it fits into your schedule. You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time.

This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step by step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking, from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better. You’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach, you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course 

Amy Liz Harrison  25:40

No, not at all. And I love that you brought that up, because I was going through a box upstairs. This is like a couple months ago. And I found from my fourth grade class, you know, one of those construction paper books where I don’t know if it was my birthday, or I was like, student of the week or what it was, but it was like, you know how they put your name down. And you they do like an acrostic. Right. So like, Amy, like a is for amazing Emma’s for whatever. So, I’m leafing through this thing that these guys made for me. And first of all, I was shocked because it brought me right back. I was like, Oh my gosh, I remember myself as a fourth grader, right? I remember what that felt like. And like everybody in there, wrote things that are true. Today for me, like people were putting in I know, this is like, not correct grammar, but it was fourth grade, but they would put author is what she wants to be. Right. And for me, they put like mayonnaise, she hates I still hate mayonnaise, like, you know, why was yellow is her least favorite color or whatever. I mean that that stuff is still true. But what’s crazy and interesting is I wanted to write books back then that’s what I wanted to do. And then today, I have done that.

Yeah, so it was kind of like this weird full circle moment where I was like, Oh my gosh, I’m still that girl. I’m just, like, older in my body and older with aches and pains and all of that. But, you know, it is interesting and fascinating that like, you know, here we are as grownups now just and here I am still walking around. Like I’m like, I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m afraid everybody’s going to find out. I don’t know what I’m doing. But it’s far less painful today. Right? Like, it’s far, I’ve learned to look at it more. Most days. Now, some days, I’m kind of in an emotional funk. And I can’t get there. And that’s okay. But most days, I can go like, with impostor syndrome, you know, this is actually kind of a superpower. Because what I’ve tried to learn to do is to look at it as an adaptive behavior, just like anything else, right? Like, people online are always posting, you know, oh, life hacks, you know. This is a hack to get through your life, right? Like, this is how you can make 48 cupcakes or whatever quickly.

And I realized now that like, oh, so impostor syndrome, you know, it’s just kind of a way that I was protecting myself, you know, from and still is a way that I protect myself from feeling like, I don’t know that there is this place that I’m going to get to where I have it all kind of figured out by myself. And it’s like, no, I don’t have it all figured out by myself. And what I have is the benefit of not having anything be like, either or right or wrong.

I have many contributors into my perceived successes or failures. And one example I can think of it in terms of sobriety is, you know, when I first got sober the first couple years. I was always saying, Well, you know, I attribute this to the 12 step program or for you know, attributed to like my particular rehab where I went, right, I was always giving them the credit and the program of this and that the credit, where it’s like, yeah, okay, fine. That definitely was a huge part of the recipe of the recovery, you know, uncovering that that girl who was still in there who had clouded everything with alcohol, right. That was part one. But also, I did the hard work, you know, I sat on the therapist couch, this time without vodka in my purse. Right.

Casey McGuire Davidson  30:10

But, but I did that work I did the running and vulnerable and went through difficult times and realize that you could handle it, you know?

Amy Liz Harrison  30:19

Yes. Yeah. And I never would give myself credit for that. Right. And I think it’s just such a fascinating thing. I know, particularly that that women do is, oh, well, yeah. If it weren’t for this, then I wouldn’t be where I am today, which Yeah, again, it’s, it’s both right. It’s hard work. And it’s opportunity.

Casey McGuire Davidson  30:43

And well, and I think that in families too, and I don’t know if you’ve seen this. So my sister and I are only 18 months apart. And I think, especially if you’re the same sex, and if you’re close in age, your parents kind of assign you roles in the family, your personality becomes who you are. And my sister was always the smart one, and the responsible one. And I was always the one who had a lot of friends was very social, and was bad with money, which cracks me up. And yet they were that robbed. My sister was always saving money when I was like 12, or 13. And I was always spending it and like, my birthday present was always my parents would forgive my debt to them, you know, for my allowance, and they were not wrong. And I was very social. But, you know, to this day, they’re like, oh, Sara’s the elephant, meaning she has a great memory. And Sarah is the responsible one. And I’m like, Dude, I have a job. You know, I was, you know, a Director at a Fortune 500 Company. At some point, I, you know, had all these things and your parents reinforce like, I’m 40 years old, seriously, I am also responsible. But it reinforces the idea that you’re not smart enough that you’re flighty, that you spend money on things that are not what you should be doing. You know what I mean?

Yeah, especially with your family, it, you’re almost always 13 years old, in my mind, perpetually, right?

Amy Liz Harrison  32:34

Like, right, there’s that old saying, that’s like, your family knows what buttons to push, because they’re the ones who installed them, or something like that, you know, I think I butchered it. But I was the same way. Just so you know, I told my brother, my little brother, I think I still owe you money. You know, because I was always borrowing from him because I never had money. Like, I’d get my allowance and boom, it was gone.

Casey McGuire Davidson  33:01

I wanted that tape. I wanted the CD, I wanted the like, and you know, I look back and I’m like, Dude, that entire thing was 50 bucks. Yeah. But to this day, my mom’s like, Oh, you have expensive taste, including because I chose the stainless steel refrigerator over the white refrigerator. And I’m like, seriously, I was supposed to save 100 bucks to get a white fridge because that’s the fiscally responsible thing to do. I mean, it’s just kind of funny.

Amy Liz Harrison  33:36

You and I must be like sisters, or our mom’s took the same, like parenting class somewhere along the way, because my mom perpetually has told me my whole life. You have champagne taste on a beer budget?

Casey McGuire Davidson  33:52

Yeah. Yeah. And to be fair, like my mother lives in a house they bought in 1969. And she’s never really done anything in it. God bless her. But what drives me crazy is she literally has a dishwasher. I kid you not that she rolls over to the sink, and like, attaches the hose every night. And I’m just like, Mom, you’re killing me this like, buy a damn new. I offered to buy it for her. She’s like, No, no, no, this is fine for me. You know what I mean? And I’m like, yes. Okay, you’re taking this to a new level?

Amy Liz Harrison  34:33

Yep. No, I’ve got the same. Same parents trust me. I know. And the funniest part about it is to like, I mean, my parents still have cookware and dishes that they got for their wedding. Yeah, I mean, like they have had it longer than I’ve been alive. Yeah.

Casey McGuire Davidson  34:52

And like God bless them. Right. My mom cares about education and travel. And that’s for sure. but they do Institute, you know, because they’re trying to raise you and instill their values in you. But a lot of times they do it by making you a cliche of the negative. And yes, you know, I’m sure you, I try very hard to not do that with my kids, right? We’re definitely different than parents who raised us in the 70s and 80s. But I know I do it too, you know, huh? Sure.

Amy Liz Harrison  35:32

Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, I do the same thing. With my parents, I will try. And see this is even funny that this has come up because I’ll try and overcompensate. Like, I’ll be like, Okay, I want to take you guys to dinner. And then they want to, like pitch in, they want to leave the tip and all this stuff. And I’m like, just let me treat you, you know.

And so, even like that kind of weird messaging, you know, what am I attaching to this messaging that, you know, you’re attaching something else? Some other kind of messaging?

And, yeah, and then how could I got it from their parents too? Right.

Casey McGuire Davidson  36:12

I mean, I remember my mom was here visiting, and my daughter was seven. And I think she has a lot of confidence. And, you know, I wish it seven I had the confidence she did, but she was saying something or doing something. And my mom was like, Well, don’t get, you know, too big in your britches. That’s not nice. And I was like, Mom, we are not doing that to her. The world will do that to her.

Yes. Like, let her think she’s amazing. Because she is, you know, so why is the family you’re raised in the society, you’re raised in the culture, the workplace. You know, it’s not just that, oh, my gosh, we are weak people. It because we don’t believe in ourselves like, this is legit. There is a reason you feel this way. And then the question is, how do we overcome this? Right?

Amy Liz Harrison  37:17

Right. Yeah, totally. And I think for me, the big deal is just using that same set of tools that I got when I was newly sober. The chief tool that I use.

Number one, is that reframing. Like, wait a minute, you know, let me take this idea that I’m this that and the other thing we’re not good enough for don’t belong here. Let me take that idea to court. And let me really lay out the evidence. Right. Let me see if this is true, forensic evidence, DNA, or is this just kind of circumstantial hearsay that’s going on in my brain? Right?

So, I think too, you know, it’s interesting, it’s that whole fight or flight amygdala thing that I’ll get into, like, this old narrative really quick, that will just be like a fire alarm pulling in my brain and, and I’ll go, oh, yeah, I know this one. Yeah, this is because I’m dumb. And I’m not as smart as everybody else in the room. And like, that will be the fire alarm, and then I’ll have to go. Okay, wait a minute. Like, let me pause, let me get centered. Let me do some breath work. Let me go outside, whatever it is. And then let me come back to this whole idea. And really get that like, prefrontal cortex thing going where I just go. Okay, now, in the more cognitive part of my brain, let me really like look at this, is this true? What I’m thinking? Or is this just an old tape? Right?

And it feels so real in that moment, but yeah, that that is one of my biggest, biggest things that works for me is like, I’m getting challenged that thought, right? Because I don’t control the thoughts that randomly fly into my brain. But it’s like, I do control that second thought, you know. Am I going to choose to spin out of control, and let this ruin my day, and go upstairs with a bag of Cheetos and a box of Oreos? And just like, I’m a waste for society today. Like I’m just, you know, or am I going to just go Oh, okay. Let me have empathy for that little girl who still feels dumb. And let me just go, Okay. I’m going to set that aside because I know that I’m not dumb or incapable. I mean, I got dressed this morning, right? So, for me, it’s like whatever it is that I can do to challenge pinch those misbeliefs. Yeah, it’s not this instant fix where I’m like, Whoa, life is wonderful and amazing, but it definitely helps. And it’s a good practice.

Casey McGuire Davidson  40:10

I think that is really good information. And one of the things we need to do is celebrate our achievements, right. And we don’t do that enough. We attribute it to luck, we attribute it to, you know, chance, but actually acknowledging and celebrating the good stuff that you’ve done in your life and taking a moment to even write it down. The other thing, I’ve had to do it that helped me as I mentioned, the essence project.

Yeah, you know, some words came up five times from many different people. And even though I was kind of afraid to ask my mother and my sister and I was actually surprised, the things they said, you know, just, I was like, Oh, I had no idea. That’s what you thought when you when you thought of me, and I’ve got to pull it out to remember what they all were. So, that was very positive. The other thing that helped me was talking about my feelings. Like, talking about what I was scared of, what was bothering me, honestly. And that really helped, you know.

Actually, the best part was talking about it with other women who either had struggled with alcohol or weren’t going through it, because a lot of your triggers are honestly related to your fears, or in imposter syndrome.

And, you know, even my best friends for years, I didn’t talk about like, I’m terrified, I’m not going to hit the numbers. And I feel like my boss was disappointed in me today.

Or, you know, my husband is not, is really doing XYZ and I’m resentful. And what’s underlying that is, I’m afraid to speak up. Because I don’t want him to be quote unquote, “mad at me”, or I don’t want him to come back with all the things I’m doing wrong. And that’s all related to fear-based impostor syndrome. I’m not good enough. I need to earn love. Right?

Amy Liz Harrison  42:35

Yep, absolutely, totally relate to all of that. And, you know, they’ve got these little quips, right for the word fear, right, like false evidence appearing real. And that’s the one that speaks to me the most.

Casey McGuire Davidson  42:52

Like, I heard. I always think of fear as fuck everything and run that another great one, right.

Amy Liz Harrison  42:57

Another great one, because it is it’s true. It’s again, it’s that like, What am I, what do I do with this? This is so uncomfortable. And I think, you know, for me, that’s all part of it is getting comfortable with feeling uncomfortable and knowing that it is okay. It is okay to, you know, feel out of place, like a fish out of water. It is. Nothing is wrong with that. But it’s what I do next, right? What am I going to let I mean, I remember being a kid and walking into an audition for I think it was Bye, Bye Birdie. And I like had a song prepared and all this and I like froze, I could not remember. And I was like, Oh, I mean, this is like trauma for me at this age was this was my biggest experience with like, anything dramatic, right? And I just remember feeling like oh, my gosh, well, that’s okay to feel embarrassment or to feel, you know, like, Dang disappointment.

You know, like, I wish I would have remembered it or whatever. But, you know, and that that’s normal. And I think that’s another thing that I don’t do is think I’m not the only person now, who experiences this. And I think that sometimes I’ll have a tendency to think I’m like alone. And when I get that feeling, it’s never good. It’s always best for me to, to just talk about it and get it out there. And then inevitably, I find Yeah, this is not a new thought somebody else too has had similar thoughts about their own self and their life. And, you know, it’s okay, it takes the sting out of it. You know, whenever you self-compassion, like, of course, anyone would feel that way.

Casey McGuire Davidson  44:49

If you felt that way, and I feel like when you were talking In about that little girl, we have such a harsh inner critic that we have inherited to try to keep us safe. And it is helpful to think about, what would I say to my best friend, in this situation? How would I talk to her whether she’s feeling like, she screwed up at work? Or she’s not good enough, or she’s, you know, should be bringing this homemade thing or should be volunteering more, what will people think? Or I screamed at my daughter, right? Like, I totally lost it on her. And I feel awful about it and say, Okay, what would you tell your best friend, if she came to you? And was like, I did this thing? And you would say, that is totally normal? I’ve done that too. Right? This right? There is nothing wrong with you. You know what I mean?

Amy Liz Harrison  46:05

Yeah, yeah. Or even I love to say, when somebody will say something negative about themselves. In my presence. I’ll go Don’t talk about my friend that way. Right? Because I just I know what that is like to adopt that negative self-talk, right? And even rewinding to treatment, right, one of our assignments was bring in a picture of yourself as a child, right? Would you speak to the child that way? The way they speak to yourself? You know, a terrapins told me to do that.

Casey McGuire Davidson  46:37

Because my daughter at the time was like, four years old when I was going. And she was like, my mini me. And still kind of is like, when I was her age, she looked just like me, except she has way more confidence. And my therapist was like, Would you tell your daughter, what you are telling yourself? And I was like, hell no, I would hold her and cuddle her and tell her I loved her no matter what. And it was going to be okay. And, you know, all those good things, you know, you are safe, you are loved. You know, absolutely. We’re smart. You are good, you know, over this situation sucks. And I think you should get out of it. You know, whatever. Right.

Amy Liz Harrison  47:30

Right. Absolutely. And, and I think that that is so beautiful that your daughter has that confidence, you know, and has that sense of self and, and as a mom, you know, that isn’t that like the dream, right? That’s what we want for our daughters.

Casey McGuire Davidson  47:47

And I hope she doesn’t lose it. But yeah, she also came to me at some point, and she was seven and said, Mom, my stomach doesn’t go in, it goes out. That’s bad, right? And I was like, Oh, my God, your freaking organs are in there. Like, of course, it doesn’t go in, you know what I mean? Like, and that’s your, you’re like, how the hell do they, you know, society, they’ve already gotten the message at seven years old that their body should be smaller, different than it naturally is.

Amy Liz Harrison  48:27

Yeah. And that’s the kind of thing that I just wanted to just run and like, you know, throw a protective bubble covering over my guys and just be like, no, like, it’s okay. Have the second piece of pizza, you know? Yeah, totally.

Casey McGuire Davidson  48:44

You know what the other thing that helped me and again, this was something I was really only able to do after I stopped drinking was sort of the idea and actually heard this in a 12 step program. I didn’t attend for that long, but I got a lot of nuggets out of it. That helped me was the idea that however someone reacts to you is 90% about whatever is going on with them. And only 10% about you. And I sort of made that.

I had a boss that was you know, she was single, she didn’t have kids. She was very ambitious. She wanted to climb the ladder. She was very big on managing up. And, you know, everything was about how she can prove she’s successful. But she worked a lot of nights. She worked a lot of weekends. She was always on the road and her career was the most important thing to her. And she clearly did not think that I was putting in the hours with the dedication or whatever it is that she thought I should you know, she was like okay, that what she wanted me to do was 50% travel. And I had two little kids, and my marriage was equal, and I wanted to be home, and I was sober. So, it was not a great idea for me to be in a random city, in a random hotel room going out to business dinners, half of my time, like, there were so many reasons this was going to be bad.

And I realized that if I did not want her life, which I did not, I wanted to be home with my kids. I wanted to walk them to the bus stop, I wanted to go to my workouts with my friends, I loved my home. If I did not want that life, then by definition, she needed to disapprove of me, I needed to disappoint her. Otherwise, if I was to please her and make her think I’m amazing, I would end up like her. And I think that was hard for me. But just knowing that in order to live the life, I wanted to be happy. I needed her to some extent to be disapproving of my choices. Totally.

Amy Liz Harrison  51:10

I mean, I imagine in a sense, it was probably kind of validating. You know, like, okay, like, I mean, and that’s those tough realizations, but it’s like, oh, I, okay, I am on the right track for me, you know, and that whole idea of, yeah, if you’re not approving of this, then I guess that means that I’m actually kind of, I’m doing what I need to do, like what I set out to do, that’s what my priority set is. And I’m fulfilling that. And, yeah, maybe this isn’t the best fit or whatever.

Casey McGuire Davidson  51:48

And it did let me release some of the feeling less than, just realize that you are. And some of the need for the pat on the head and the approval and overworking and perfectionism and fear of failure, that was all part of imposter syndrome.

And it worked out like she promoted someone else to that job that I really did not want. She transferred me to another team where I had a fantastic boss. And he was very worked to live. And they were on the east coast. So, everybody left by 4pm, which meant I can get some work done. But I also could finally leave at 530 to get my kids at daycare. Versus she was like I said a 6pm median and I can’t believe you’re not going to be added. This is a crisis when it really couldn’t, you know? Yeah.

Amy Liz Harrison  52:47

Well, and even taking that same principle, that same idea of all of that, and even not in the workplace, too. It’s like, okay, it’s that old saying, which I hope I don’t mess it up. But people who mind don’t matter, people who matter. Don’t mind. Did I say that correctly?

Yep. Because that’s the thing. It’s like, okay, so if this doesn’t line up with what I’m doing, with what my priority set is, then that’s okay. I’m actually um, you know, of course, I’m going to go through some emotional upheaval and feel like, you know, somebody disapproved Ah, but I’m eventually going to realize, oh, that person had a Yeah, did me a favor by promoting somebody else. Because I wouldn’t have wanted that job anywhere, I wouldn’t have wanted to be in that position, it wouldn’t have been a good fit for me, because then I, you know, all of a sudden, like trying so exorbitantly hard for something that doesn’t even really line up with my belief system and my values.

Casey McGuire Davidson  53:55

And, yeah, and to feel that way you have to tap into and figure out what are your values? And what do you want out of life? Because if you were constantly measuring yourself by someone else, Ryan Yulian. Like, you’re not living up to things. It’s possible that whatever situation you’re in, including hanging out with the moms who make the, the gourmet stuff that you feel like they’re judging you for your meatballs, maybe they’re not your people. Maybe you need to find other people who you don’t feel judged for doing that, you know, and that’s Oh.

Amy Liz Harrison  54:39

And I almost feel like to you know, it is funny bringing it full circle back to the men comment. It’s like, guys in that same scenario, like with other dads, I mean, they don’t give a shit, right? Like they’re like, oh, what branded diapers are used. then oh, Pampers. Cool, cool. Cool. Cool. Yeah.

Are you doing? Like, you making your own baby food? Yeah. Okay, cool. Like, I’m not. Yeah, like they don’t care. You know, like, they’re just like throwing out, you know I am.

Casey McGuire Davidson  55:14

I am brought back, by the way to my new favorite song and I rotate my favorite songs. My new one is Taylor Swift’s the man. And the idea is like, what would it be like to be in a man’s world right like to have people say all the positive things versus judging you for everything. And if anyone hasn’t listened to this song, you should, because it helps you understand why you feel the way you feel and why you feel insecure. And the fact is, it’s not all in your head, it is the right you know, like, you know, what would it be like, if I was given credit for my achievements, and not thought that I was lucky or lucky to be there, or, you know, like, a bitch or too ambitious or not a good mother cause you’re not around your kids or whatever it is. So, that song is my favorite right now.

And the other thing is, a joke that I think my husband doesn’t like, but I say it all the time. And I used to say it to my female coworkers, because I saw it. I was like, God grant me the confidence of a mediocre white man.  Oh, cause like, I mean, I would literally look at okay, like you are fucking up. And how are you walking through the world thinking that you’re the shit?

Amy Liz Harrison  56:46

Like, right?

Casey McGuire Davidson  56:47

Do you not understand? And I’m like, how the hell is your mailbox walking around thinking that you’re awesome? Because that was crappy work? Yeah.

Amy Liz Harrison  56:58

Totally. I mean, honestly, that is a whole nother topic in and of itself. We’ll have to discuss that at some point, because I could not agree more. And I love the joke.

Casey McGuire Davidson  57:09

Yeah, totally. I’m like gender bias. And the, the mom penalty, right? When your mother, oh, you’re not as serious about work, or you should not be promoted or doing all these things, despite the fact that you are working very hard and coming home. And you know, for me, doing all the kids’ stuff, and then jumping back on the computer. And, you know, again, I should not have done that. I should have said, hey, my personal time is really important to me. And I need to take time for my kids. And I need to rest. So like, I’m not going to be online after work. And guess what? They’ll give that work to someone else. But probably not to a man.

Amy Liz Harrison  58:00

Right? It’s so true. And then, yeah, just briefly on that, because this is again, there’s a whole rabbit hole for me. But speaking of being online at night, and then going through all these things, it’s the email from the mother that is like, oh, you know, answered four or five days later, particularly, I’m talking about, you know, different scenarios with the maybe with school or with a pediatrician office or something like that, where it’s just like, oh, but if the dad calls or the dad emails, it’s up to a level.

Casey McGuire Davidson  58:39

It says, My dad is a good guy. He is incredible. I can’t believe you’re here. I can’t believe you volunteer at school.

And I’m like, seriously? Like, I even went on a field trip. And I almost never did that. With four volunteers. All four of us worked. One was a man and he was the hero for being Yeah. And I was like, Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously, like it was over the top? You know?

Amy Liz Harrison  59:11

Yep. Yep. I have been there. I’ve seen it. Or if they take your kid to the grocery store. Whoa. It’s, Father of the Year.

Casey McGuire Davidson  59:20

Yeah. Oh, my God, my boss at some, you know, his wife stayed at home, but it was still ridiculous. And he said to me, Oh, I’ve got to babysit my kid tonight. I was like, Jay, I think it’s called parenting if you’re not yet ready to the bureau. But, yes, okay. We’ve talked about what have we talked about all the reasons women feel impostor syndrome. We’ve talked about the fact that you are not the only one who feels this. I feel like every woman I have talked to vulnerably and Honestly, feels this way as well. And there are things that you can do to counteract this and to manage it without drinking over it. And without having like, stewing over it, having it go through your mind all the time, I want to go through your tips again. And then, I’ll do mine. And we’ll just, you know, can we just pull it out the things that we do that and that we were both coaches that we advise our clients to do, that will help them along this path of, of dealing with impostor syndrome.

Amy Liz Harrison  1:00:43

Sure, the biggest one for me is affirmations. It sounds cheesy, but it works. Like writing them down. Something about that brain to hand connection of writing, you know these things down and then posting them because I’m really visual, so I need to see them. So, I do have post-it notes, kind of, all over my mirror, or I’ll use a dry erase marker on my mirror.

And another thing is, as I’m kind of alluded to earlier, like a centering practice, some kind of a spirituality, I even have a labyrinth blanket that I lay out on the ground sometimes and I’ll walk the labyrinth, and it just really helps me to remember like, okay, yeah, I’m getting all these old messages or messages that are current that are attached to old misbeliefs. And that really helps to pull me out of it.

And thirdly, support network of some kind, right, whether that’s friends who you can be super honest with or confide in, right, or having a friend tell you, okay, but wait, here’s what I see in you that will counteract that impostor syndrome and those negative belief systems, right? Those are probably I would say, my top three.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:02:03

Yeah, I love that. I think mine are one sort of trying to celebrate your strengths and see yourself the way other people in the world see you. What do they observe? What did they think of you? And for me, it’s that essence project that really helped me. And if you’re thinking about it, just say, tell someone, oh, hey, I’m doing a project? Will you text me? Three words, that you think when you think of me like that you think describe me? And it’s super quick. You don’t want them to overthink it just and then ask a whole bunch of people who know you well, and don’t know you that well. And look at the patterns and hold on to that. Because we are so harsh on ourselves. And I promise you, you will see patterns come out that are positive and strengths.

The thing is, actually talking about it with people you trust, because airing it out will help you see that you’re not alone. And see that everyone struggles with this. And think about when someone tells you the reasons they feel impostor syndrome, you’ll be like, Oh my god, that is not you. Like, look at what you’ve done. Look at how amazing you are, you know, I wish I had x, y, z. And kind of talk to yourself the way you would talk to your best friend. Boundaries are really good thing to do. Noticing the people that light you up and the people that drag you down, meaning the people that suck your energy or make you feel worse about yourself, edit that if someone is consistently making you feel less than stay away from them, like they’re not your people, and then therapy. I loved therapy for having even an hour a week to think about what I’m feeling to share it and to get more tools. Yep. Love it.

Amy Liz Harrison  1:04:19

Absolutely. Couldn’t agree more.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:04:24

Awesome. Well, thank you for being here. Tell us how we can find you how women can work with you where they can get your books, all the good stuff.

Amy Liz Harrison  1:04:34

Sure. All of that is found at amylizharrison.com. And I’m Amy Liz Harrison across all the platforms, Instagram, and Facebook. I do a little bit of Tik Tok, not much. But yeah, and I’m on like Pinterest and I think Twitter x, whatever it is now. I think that that’s everything um, kind of old, so I’m mostly a Facebook girl. Yeah, yeah.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:05:08

Awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming.

Amy Liz Harrison  1:05:12

I see. Thank you for having me on. It’s been an honor.