Rekindling romance and managing conflict in intimate relationships is something a lot of women struggle with—whether it’s why they drink or a challenge they face after stepping away from alcohol.

How to Bring Back Romance In Relationships

➡️ Use Nonverbal Communication

🩷 Affectionate Touch: Show love through touch.
🩷 Eye Contact: Keep eye contact to strengthen your bond.

➡️ Show Appreciation and Admiration

🙏🏼 Express Gratitude: Regularly tell your partner what you appreciate and admire about them to keep your relationship strong.

➡️ Respond to Bids for Connection

🥰 Gottman’s Bids: Notice when your partner is seeking attention or affection
🥰 Positive Responses: Respond positively to these bids to build emotional closeness.

Get Professional Help

1️⃣ Couples Therapy

    ➡️ Work on Issues Together: Use couples therapy to address relationship problems.
    ➡️ Try Different Therapies: Use various methods like Polyvagal Theory, ACT, CBT, DBT, and IFS to get a well-                     rounded approach to solving issues.

2️⃣ Individual Therapy

    ➡️ Emotional Management and Healing: Use individual therapy to manage your emotions and heal from past                 trauma, which can help improve your relationship.

💯 If you’re ready to build a stronger emotional connection with your partner, try these tips to rekindle romance and manage conflict.

Want to read the full transcript of this podcast episode? Scroll down on this page.

READ THE TRANSCRIPT OF THIS PODCAST INTERVIEW

How To Rekindle Romance and Manage Conflict In Your Relationship with Anna Aslanian

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

partner, feel, couples, happen, drinking, Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing, EMDR, relationship, conflict, Gottman, trauma, give, talk, people, conflict avoidant, therapist, helping, learn, manage, life, discussions, transformative, self-development, rekindling, romance, managing, intimate, relationships, how to set boundaries, how to connect with their partner, my therapy corner, remove alcohol, attachment, women struggle with, sober curious, journey, how they function in the world, moving, evolution, managing conflicts, feelings, vulnerability, experiences, family, anxiety, addiction, couple’s therapy, attachment focused EMDR, Parnell institute, attachment EMDR, Emotionally Focused Therapy, EFT, sound relationship house, conflict management, tools, how to create a safe space to dialogue, compromise, acceptance, connection, therapy

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Anna Aslanian

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a buzz, how to sit with your emotions when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Hey there! Today, we’re talking about

rekindling romance and managing conflict in intimate relationships.

And I know this is something that lots of women struggle with either, it’s a reason why they drink or once they stopped drinking, it’s an issue that they need to address. How to manage conflict, how to set boundaries, how to connect with their partner, when they’re not drinking, or if they feel like their partner doesn’t understand them or wishes that they were still drinking.

There is so much there in your intimate relationships when you remove alcohol. If it’s been your social lubricant, or the way you manage stress and overwhelm for a long time.

So, my guest today is Anna Aslanian. She’s a Seasoned Marriage Therapist and a Family Therapist and the founder of the boutique practice, My Therapy Corner.

Ana is a certified Gottman Therapist and a bringing home baby educator. She holds certifications as an EMDR. And attachment EMDR trauma therapist, and Ana specializes in couples and relationship, work, addiction, trauma, life transitions and healings, as well as Transformative Self-Development.

So, Ana, welcome.

Anna Aslanian  02:46

Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Casey McGuire Davidson  02:49

Yeah, I’m excited that you could join me to talk about this, because it’s something that I think all women struggle with, but especially women who are on the sober curious journey or moving to a new evolution of who they are and how they function in the world.

Anna Aslanian  03:07

Yeah, it’s very relatable topic, and I’m so appreciative of you talking about this.

Casey McGuire Davidson  03:13

Yeah, well, let’s start with managing conflicts in relationships. I know that I personally, am very conflict, adverse, I don’t like conflict in my relationship and don’t like sort of feeling off with our partner. But other people are much more comfortable with it.

So, kind of tell me, what are the different types of conflict? And what’s difficult about how to manage that?

Anna Aslanian  03:43

Yeah. So, you know, you’re not alone. There are lots and lots of people who are not comfortable with conflict, and they’re trying to avoid it at all cost.

And you know, and then, there are some who are more comfortable with conflict discussions.

It all sort of goes back to how we were raised and what experiences we’ve had with conflict. You know, if we have been exposed to conflict that didn’t go well, or maybe we grew up in families where feelings were not really talked about or even worse, maybe punished, you know, if you showed vulnerability and feelings and it was, you said, you got the message that it was something that was bad, you know, and you saw that you didn’t know how powerful it was managing see a good role model of where communication could happen.

There’s tension. There is conflict and yet, people remain together. Remain loving and respectful, then you don’t have the tools, and this is so relatable you know, I certainly was a conflict avoidant until I learned the skills and a lot of people are and usually what I seen in you know, couples dynamics is that one person tends to be conflict avoidant, that a person wants to speak more and talk more and it’s like push and pull down. Dynamic.

Of course, I know cases, you can also have couples where both of them are trying to avoid conflict and play nice. But internally, they’re just accumulating resentment or accumulating this, you know, negative feelings towards one another, you know, so it’s a very common thing.

So, the good news is this, right? Regardless, if you’re conflict avoidant, or you’re comfortable with expressing feelings and talking about difficult topics, you know, in any relationship, conflict is inevitable. Right? So, this is not any couple. If you know of a couple of you’re like, wow, I think they’re doing wonderful and it’s a good couple. It’s not because they don’t fight. It’s not because they don’t have disagreements, you know.

And research also shows that couples who do really well just have some tools around how to navigate it is very difficult conversations in a way that’s connecting in a way that feels emotionally and physically safe to your mind and body. And they also make repairs because we all make mistakes, and sometimes even doesn’t matter.

You’ve studied Psychology, and you’ve done couples therapy and read all the books, sometimes you might have discussions that don’t go well. Do you come back? And do you go, Hey, honey, I messed up, like, can we talk right now? Is this a good time to talk and repair? Those repairs are very important. And this goes for all relationships. You know, it’s not just romantic relationships, but that of friends, colleagues, parent and child, you know, siblings and everybody else? Yeah.

Casey McGuire Davidson  06:27

Well, so I know you’re trained in the Gottman approach. And I actually, his book seven principles, or their book, 7 Principles for Making Marriage Work, or was like the only couple relationship book that I ever bought. I got it when my husband and I were engaged 22 years ago, and we still make jokes about some of the things we learned in the group like the 4 horsemen. But tell us about that approach about, you mentioned, repairs within a relationship and tools for conflict. Can you teach us a little bit?

Anna Aslanian  07:06

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, the Gottman method is amazing when it comes to learning very specific skills in terms of what to do, what not to do and why. You know, our work with couples, we use a lot of Gottman method, couples therapy, as well as Emotionally Focused Therapy EFT by Sue Johnson, which is really about the attachments and all of that. But specifically, for the Gottman method, you know, what couples like about it, it’s that it gives you very specific instructions on what to do what not to do. And everything is based on research.

It’s not just someone’s opinion, saying, Well, I think you should do this, right. They have done research and observed couples for decades and down to their physiological responses, they follow them through the years, different couples, different cultural backgrounds, married, non-married all of that, and they’ve been able to successfully predict what couples are going to make it and which ones are not. And they’ve kind of, you know, summarized all of that in a beautiful theory called, sound relationship house.

And then, all this books talk about different aspects of that, but specifically for conflict management. I think that what I would like to focus on, there’s so much, you know, but I would just narrow it down to two types of conflict. Right? Most couples fight about, you know, different things, you know, but we’re looking at what’s underneath the iceberg, right? What’s the bigger issue there? And what they found in their research is that 69% of conflict that couples have, is not solvable. So, that’s a pretty high number 69. And when I say that, sometimes couples go, oh, well, I’m not here then. Right, like 69% of the problems are not going to be fixed.

What do you mean? And it’s because, you know, it’s due to our differences as people, you know, how we were raised, what expectations we have, how we process things, our personalities, you know, all of that which you cannot just change very easily, right? You are who you are. And so, with those perpetual problems, what they found is, if couples create this safe space, where they can just dialogue about their problems, then they can manage that for years to come. And what they found is you know, certain conflict discussions are present from day one all the way till you know, when they’re if they’re together for 50, 60 years, but they’ve learned to manage them better because they there is acceptance of your partner’s differences.

And some examples, you know, for our listeners could be, you know, differences about money, right, like someone likes to spend money, someone likes to save money.

One person is always late, that a person likes to be somewhere 40 minutes early, you know.

Physical touch, how frequently you want to be doing have physical contact, right?

There’s so many differences that are just due to how you, who you are as a person, and how you process things and how you’ve been brought up.

So, with that, it’s just really about some tools about how do we create a safe space to dialogue.

And the way to do that is learning skills of active listening, not just because oftentimes what I find is people listen to their partner, but when they’re upset, we go into what I’m going to say instead, or I think I already know what you’re going to say. So, I’m not really trying to understand you. And I’m like, I heard you, I heard you. But really, when you ask them, like, what did you hear, you know, him or her them say? They, it’s a whole different story, what they heard. So, between what’s being said, and what’s being received is a different story. So, those skills are, can you put your agenda aside, and you breathe, and just be the best bot you can possibly be? And just try to be curious about what your partner is saying and ask open ended questions, deepening questions, to just clarify what they mean. So, you can understand them deeper. And once they feel really understood, you can also see, okay, well, part of what they’re saying, really make sense to me. From their perspective, I don’t have to agree, I’m not saying that they’re right, and I’m wrong. But just seeing what makes sense. And given that back to them, and then, you know, obviously, your partner will hopefully do the same. And that’s, you know, a format where you can really understand each other better. And when there is understanding, then that problem solving part comes easier. You know, and you can then compromise and so on. Plus 69% of the problems, the rest is, you know, you can solve them. They’re solvable. And what’s helpful for that is just to learn how to compromise.

And I think, you know, lots of people will talk about, like, I’m really good at compromising, or, you know, I’m not that great at compromising, but it’s a lot more nuanced, actually compromising sometimes is done incorrectly. And people use it in the wrong way, meaning that, you know, I compromised, and they mean, I gave up what was important for me, so that I can meet in the middle, right. But let’s compromise when we don’t want to both partners need to give a lot of things up to meet in the middle. But they should not give up their core needs. You know that one thing, one or two things that are going to build so much resentment, if they go against it? You know, they abandon themselves by saying yes, when they mean no. Right? So, I think in any kind of conflict discussion, if you find yourself like needing to compromise, ask yourself, what is the one thing in this situation that I cannot give up? But if I were to say, Okay, fine, I will build resentment, I would feel like I’m abandoning myself, I’m going against who I am, I will regret this, you know, in the future, and just kind of be my partner, right? Because that’s it. That’s the case. That’s, that’s something you need to give up. Because that’s not going to help your relationship. But once you find out what that is, great, that is something you cannot compromise on. But what is everything else that you can, you know, compromise on and just say, Okay, I’ll meet you this, I’ll give up this, I’ll yield on this part. And so, what that looks like is, you know, we’ll put the numbers here, you will pick one thing that you’re like, Honey, I cannot compromise on this, this is very important for me, but I’m willing to do XY and Z and X, Y, and Z needs to be longer list. Right? So, you need to be willing to give up more, but also do that self-work of what is the most important piece I cannot give up on and your partner will do the same. And then just having a discussion about and that is, you know, all of this obviously is you know, we teach that and there is you know, ways to do that step by step. So, it’s love. Clear.

Casey McGuire Davidson  13:59

Yeah, yeah, that’s, I liked that one. The last bit you said because it’s kind of important. A lot of women I think, don’t identify what it is they want, what’s really important to them because they’re so especially if they’re conflict avoidant. So, trying to maintain harmony, trying to make their partner their kids, their mother whoever happy and then they’re just sort of resentful about it or irritated or, oh my god, I do everything for everyone else, and they don’t appreciate it. So, I’m just going to drink, and you know, whatever it is. And so, identifying and then communicating, you know, here is what I need is really important, and then of course compromising on the other things, but I feel like it’s something that we don’t even do for ourselves, you we know how we feel, but we don’t know what it is that we Do you really want? Do you find?

Anna Aslanian  15:03

Yeah, and I’m so glad you mentioned that because a lot of people, you know, and not to, you know, stereotype here to can be, you know, all the genders, but women specifically, you know, there are some messages for women specifically to be more soccer, self-sacrificing and more understanding and all of these things, right, especially if you’re a mom and, and many women struggle with saying what they need and want, especially if they were raised in families where, you know, their needs weren’t really considered, right, you need to do what’s best for somebody else. Or you’ll learn early on that in order for me to be accepted in order for me to be liked, you know, I need to do. I need to be who this person and family wants me to be. Usually our parents, right?

Like, I know, if I act this way, I’m going to be some kind of rejection of me, whether it’s, you know, they get upset at me or the silent treatment, or I’m just noticing my parents are displeased with me. And even little things like that, you know, we’re little humans on the surface at first, right? So, we’re just learning how to be. And it’s very easy to get the message of, okay, I need to, to scan the environment. And please people around me so that I’m okay. And they are okay with me. They like me and all of that. So, it can become a very bad habit, right? That on autopilot, or just doing this without realizing that, wait a minute, what about my needs, and I’m just getting sad and upset and angry. But I’m not even understanding why or what I need. And then the next step is, let’s say you figure out what you need been okay with also asking for what you need. That’s the whole thing, too, right? Like, sometimes people will say, well, like, they should already know, like, Why do I have to tell them? Right? Or I can’t say what I need, what if they get upset, and then they leave me. There’s all sorts of fears that will really stop us from exploring what we want, what we need. Men assertively stating our needs?

Casey McGuire Davidson  17:04

Well, and what if you have been in a relationship for a long time, and you’ve got pattern set up in your relationship, who does what how they act, how you act, and you want to change the rules. I mean, that’s something that we talk about a lot when you’ve stopped drinking, that, you know, if you are doing all the things and getting angry and getting resentful, and not getting your own needs met, for whatever reason, either you don’t ask or that just hasn’t been that dynamic, or things have been added to your plate, and you’re both super busy. How do you stop and say, We can no longer do business as usual? Because I’m assuming that for your partner, if you have bad boundaries and give 70% and they give 30? They’re pretty happy with that. Right? They don’t want to do more.

Casey McGuire Davidson 

Hi there. If you’re listening to this episode, and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, The Sobriety Starter Kit.

 

The Sobriety Starter Kit is an online self study sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step by step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one on one coaching. And the sobriety starter kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it. And when it fits into your schedule. You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time.

This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step by step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking, from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better. You’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach, you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course 

Anna Aslanian  17:59

Yeah, you  know, I think, well, I, you know, I always recommend couples therapy, right? Because this is a hard thing to navigate on your own, especially if you’re so set in this dynamic. And it’s been years, and you know, there are going to be some conflict discussions, right. So, you might want to seek out a couples therapist, who is trained in all of this modalities to help you navigate that and go, Hey, this boundaries, were in really the healthiest, let’s talk about how we can make this relationship better, so that both of you are happy. Because if one person isn’t happy, and they’re just building resentment, you know, the other person isn’t going to be happy, because they’re not getting the loving, kind, you know, person who wants to connect with them, they’re getting their resentment, you know, they’re sensing the resentment and getting that version of their partner, right. So usually, when we present it that way, both partners are on board of like, okay, of course, I will my partner to be happy, because then I’m happier with Connect, you know, and I think one thing that can help in changing that dynamic is to have a conversation, whether you do couples therapy or not, about, you know, your values as a couple. And this is more of, you know, acceptance, Commitment Therapy perspective, but, you know, just thinking about what is truly important for me, you know, and values are not the same thing as goals, but just what’s important for us, right, I mean, for example, is if something is important for you, that entails, you know, connection with your partner, or, you know, feeling emotionally say, with your partner, let’s say that’s something that you value, you know, is the dynamic is what you’re doing right now, helping you get towards that or is it helping you go away from that?

Right, so having that kind of loving conversation of like, Hey, I know we both value, you know, connection, and closeness and support, and, you know, feeling you know, emotionally safe and connected and yet I’m noticing when I do 70% of X, Y and Z. I feel there is resentment. I feel angry at you. And that takes me away from this connection piece that we want to know, what can we do to change this? You know, Can you help me brainstorm what we can do so that we don’t feel this way. It’s also very helpful to us, we instead of you, because when we say like you are doing 30%, and I’m doing 70, they’re probably going to get defensive. And you know, it won’t go well, but So presenting it as a weed problem, because it is right like it at the end of the day, it’s not helping anyone in a relationship. So, but the Wii language really helps in your partner being more accepting and open to hearing some feedback.

Casey McGuire Davidson  20:47

Yeah. What if you don’t have a great marriage? What if your partner does not seem particularly invested in meeting your needs? Or, like I know with the Gottman framework, the idea I’ve, you know, heard the idea of the Four Horsemen that if you have conflict in a relationship, and you Stonewall, or you criticize or show contempt, or, or turn away from your partner, that is really unhelpful to making a connection. But what if your, your partner just does those things. Just doesn’t want to hear from you, isn’t particularly open to resolution, you know, although, like, what do you do in that situation?

Anna Aslanian  21:40

Yeah, yeah. Well, hopefully, you know, they can have a conversation and go listen, would you be willing to go to couples therapy in this third person, sometimes it’s easier to get feedback from no stranger or third person than from your partner. But you know, let’s say your partner does not even open to that. With the four horsemen, there is a change that can happen. If you do your part.

You know, oftentimes, we can say, Well, my partner isn’t wanting to do this. So, it’s not going to work. And we’re not doing our part. So, my partner is defensive. And my partner is not going to get any better. Like, they don’t want to work with their defensiveness. But that doesn’t mean that I should not work on my part, which is, okay, so people get defensive, usually when there is criticism, and there’s things you can do so that your complaints come out more, as, you know, requests and gentle conversations about your needs, instead of criticisms and attacks on their personality or their character as a human being. Right. So, if I can work on my part, if I can, you know, have soft startups, which is, you know, the first few minutes of how you start a conflict discussion will predict how it will end. So, I can never stop tone of voice, I talk about what I want, and what I need. And what I’ve noticed happened for me. So, I stay away from words like you never, always you, always do this, you never do that you should do this, or name calling, right? Harsh tone of voice. All of that. If I stay away from that, and I’m just soft during my approach, you know, and I make requests, you know, not demands, but requests saying what you want, instead of what you don’t want, you know, my partner might be more open to hearing me in the tenseness come up, because there’s no reason for defensive, defensiveness to come up.

Of course, there are some people also that will come up regardless based on their experiences from the past, and where they might hear attacks, when there are none, that can also happen. But for most people, you know, if we approach them in a calm way, and making requests, they’re more open to hearing us. And so that’s something that I would really suggest, you know. If you’re going to look into the Four Horsemen, read about this commonly made errors, the Four Horsemen that couples making conflict discussions that predict the relationship ending if you continue doing them, if your partner is unwilling to do those, that at least to your partner, you do that because it’s like a dance, you know, it’s a domino effect, right? So, the likelihood of your partner responding in a certain way increases if you criticize, or if you, you know, if you notice that you’re flooded, and you’re just emotionally upset, take a break, this is not the time to solve all the problems, they’re not going to be in a place to hear you. Right.

And I think when you’re apart, when you guys are doing well, when you’re not fighting when things are good, that’s usually the time to bring up you know, topics of concern. Like, Hey, I know we haven’t been communicating that well. I really care about this relationship but want to go back to her thing. So, we just met you know, something like that, right? Would you be willing to like see professional would you be willing to read this book? Would you be willing to listen to this podcast? Whatever it is, but do not bring that up during the conference. discussion, you know, but just when things are well, that’s when you want to present this and tell them why that will be good idea. And why you want it, it will mean so much to me we will be, it will make me feel close again, you know, something like that.

Casey McGuire Davidson  25:13

That makes a lot of sense. And I know that when women start working with me, sometimes they have all these reasons that they drink, which are very valid many times, you know, my boss, my work, my spouse, my schedule, all these things. And what you said about doing your part, in my mind, it’s always like, okay, let’s remove the alcohol first. Because that is in no way helping you even though it’s a temporary, we feel like it’s a solution, but it just increases depression and anxiety and poor sleep and brain fog. And once you’ve gotten away from it, you will be operating from a place of more confidence and more clarity. And you will be able to draw the boundaries you need. Now, whether or not other people respect them or respond in a way that is meeting your needs is separate than not ever saying what they are or saying what they are when you’re sort of in this stress cycle of drinking and recovering.

Anna Aslanian  26:28

Yeah, you know, just to normalize that, right? All the coping methods we have there are, you know, not good. Like if you’re coping with stress with drinking a lot, or if you’re coping with stress by shopping a lot, if you’re coping with stress by, you know, whatever it is that you think is just like, I think it’s not really good. Do this, you know, right now, just to have some self-compassion that all of those things were working at one point, that’s why you started doing them. So, all of our coping methods developed for a reason to protect us to help us right, and then work until they don’t. Right, so then you just kind of have to look okay, this was helping me help me relax, and, you know, helping me feel less anxiety, perhaps. But how is it not helping me now? Right, and again, kind of going back to the values talk like, well, it’s important for me to, to be good at my job, and be clear minded and be connected with my kids. But I find myself tired in the morning.

So, whatever it is, so I kind of like seeing how it’s no longer helping you and how it’s not helping you walk towards your values. It’s almost like if I visualize, right, like, two paths, right, two doors, or whatever helps you visualize, and one is towards the values that I that I really care about, like my password, my life, and I’m, you know, 90, 80 years old, like, what will be will be important for me that I have done or lived, right? And if it’s this thing, am I walking towards that? Or am I walking away from it? Right?

So, if something is making me go away from it, that’s probably the time to kind of go, okay, what can I do to help me get towards this more, you know, but also doing that with kindness and compassion? Because, again, everything we do is, you know, make sense, you know, we’re doing that because it’s helping us on some level, or it’s helped us before in some level.

Casey McGuire Davidson  28:24

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And also, I’ll put in the show notes of this episode, I’ve done a couple episodes on identifying your core values, and how to go deep and figuring out what those are. So, if you’re interested in learning more about core values and doing some work on identifying yours, I will add that in as well. What about rekindling romance, or I know, for a lot, I mean, I’ll just speak for myself, my husband and I got together when we were 22. And we spent, you know, 16 years of our relationship where we had cocktails on every date night, we went away to wine tasting places on anniversary weekends, it was just really interwoven into the way we connected the way we had fun. And when I stopped drinking, I had become sort of sort of very defensive and more closed off from him, because I didn’t want him to sort of be aware of hey, I was vaguely hungover every morning, and I was more interested in like, sitting in the couch and drinking wine that connecting with him. And so there was this space between us where we weren’t really connected. And the way we connected was to drink and then we would talk and then we would connect and then we would have sex. So yeah, any advice for sort of that situation?

Anna Aslanian  30:00

Okay, Yeah, you know, I think it’s difficult like, because there is a dynamic that’s created of, of things that we used to do early on to feel connected. And now we have to change that into different ways of feeling connected. My first suggestion would be to kind of look at individually, what in this case, you know, drinking was giving you, right? And so, qualities, or maybe I was feeling more confident or less anxiety or whatever it is, right? Is there any other ways I can get that? Right.

So, let’s say, I need to feel less anxious. And there are lots of tools, there is therapy for anxiety, there’s so many skills that can be learned, to practice, to manage that anxiety better. And it’s that, you know, sexual intimacy is a really great example, right? If all the sexual intimacy has happened when under the influence of something, then it’s difficult to feel the same way and to engage in those activities in, you know, without the help of any of those substances. So, this is a real thing going on. She’s very compassionately, we’re looking into what was like giving me what are the healthier coping, coping methods or skills I can learn to gain those qualities again, so I can feel comfortable. And also talking about this with your partner, right? Presenting it into again, that conversation of this is important for me that we have a healthy sex life that we have a healthy emotional and mental connection. And I realized that, you know, drinking would help me loosen up and feel more comfortable. And, and that’s something we did to connect, can we explore other ways to connect now? Right, and your partner might start brainstorming with you about some options, you know, I think it’s really not so much what you say to your partner, but it’s how you say it, that’s going to go well or not, right? For them to really feel like, you’re asking for their help, you’re their partner, you’re on the same team instead of any kind of attacks. But regardless of drinking or not, I think a lot of couples need to work on rekindling that romance and connection because we stopped doing what we did in the beginning to connect, you know, early on, people put a lot more effort than they think they do. Right?

I know, if you fast forward, and you’ve been at some for a long time. You have to sometimes even plan the days when you might have alone time where you can have sex and even any, you know, baits, things like that. And sometimes, I’ll hear a couple say, well, that’s not fun. If I have to plan those, you know, and then I’m like, well, but you were planning them early on, you just didn’t realize that’s what you were doing when you go on a date. And it’s just very early beginning, you know, you’re anticipating that, you know, you might kiss you might do something right, you might flirt like whatever it is, or you might have sex, I don’t know. So, you anticipate that you get in a certain mood, you wear a certain type of clothes, you feel whatever you need to do to feel confident, right? You’re also listening to your partner, when they’re telling you a story you want like, Hey, tell me more, although it’s funny, yeah. What about this, and it’s happened with me, right? When they’re speaking to you that on your phone, you know, you’re really making eye contact and listening to them. You care about what they have to say, you know, you compliment them, you physically showing that you’re into them, whether it’s holding hands, hugging them, whatever it is, you know, your eye sparkle, there’s so many nonverbal cues, we give that hey, I’m interested in you, your priority right now. You know, you ask them about what they like, what they don’t like, their dreams, and worst days or best days. And then we start moving or you know what I got you and I think I know you and we’re good, you know, but we don’t stop evolving as people. Our likes and dislikes change.

You know, we grow. We have new experiences with think about things, right, so teak to keep that up, you know, it’s very important. And so, the government they suggest, you know, three things and that’s kind of the friendship level of the relationship that’s really helped with the romance too. And that’s, you know, love maps, which is really getting to know your partner’s internal world, their likes, their dislikes, their dreams, their aspirations, but also their fears and worst case scenarios, just keeping that up. Beware of your partner’s inner experience also, you know, fondness and admiration, aberration, making sure that your partner feels that you like them, you respect them, you adore them. You’re fond of them all of those things. And that can be done verbally or number Billy, right? It’s not just compliments and hugs and everything. But do you say, I appreciate you helping me out with this? You know, thank you so much for cooking dinner tonight, you know, I really appreciate you taking care of it, it’s I know, it’s so hard, I really appreciate you making me lunch, you know, I really appreciate that you’re working so hard to support our family, whatever they’re doing, so that they can feel seen, and that feels so good, just to be appreciated, generally speaking, right? All of that adds to that feeling of my partner likes me, they respect me, you know, and then turning towards instead of a way, and that’s the example that I put up with the phone, right? When your partner is making this small waist attempts to connect with you. They’re trying to talk to you. They’re trying to tell you about their day, you know, do you turn towards them? And give them your undivided attention? Right? Or do you ignore them? Or do you maybe even snap and go, Oh, my gosh, I’m so busy. Stop asking me those questions. I don’t care about your day. Right?

So, we want we don’t want those things. We want the first one which is turn towards that give them attention in this everyday moment to make attempts to connect, they can also be nonverbal, right? If I’m working and my partner is passing by me, and they just dropped me on my shoulder or want to give me a quick hug, you know, do I respond back to them that I smile back at them? Do I hold their hand back? Or do I just ignore, right? So, this, what they call, bids for attention, which are, you know, attempts to connect. If this bid to connect are going unmet, ignored, or rejected? You know, after a while, I will stop trying to connect with you, you know, and maybe even find somebody else that might understand you better, right. So, these are the things that keep that friendship level intact, and then helps the romance too. It’s not just about planning a wonderful date once every 6 months.

Casey McGuire Davidson  36:53

Yeah, that’s interesting. I think the first time that I read about the bid idea, meaning that whenever someone starts up a conversation or, or brings up anything, it’s sort of a bid to connect with you. And either you turn towards them, or you turn away from them. It didn’t stick with me that even if I was not particularly interested in hearing about it, that I should, you know, attempt to respond in here. And you know, my husband’s a baseball coach, and I’m always like, Oh, who’s pitching tomorrow? Like, honestly, I don’t care. But I’m like, really? Oh, cool. You know, what is your good this year? How many seniors have you lost? Like, whatever it is? Just because clearly, that’s what he’s really going to do. It doesn’t take that much to do it. Yeah, I hear you questions then to go sit in the rain for three hours that.

Anna Aslanian  37:57

Yeah, um, it can be hard sometimes. Right? And what they found is that people miss this bit scope connection. Most of the time, not on purpose, but don’t purposely go, how can I make my partner feel rejected right now? Right? How can I just shut them down? It’s just life gets in the way we want to check. We’re so tired, want to just don’t out on our phones, we want to finish that email, we’re doing something else. We’ve been, you know, tired with kids all day, whatever it is, you know, but I am making that effort sometimes, you know, so, you’re not going to be on every single time. But if you’re able to at least most of the time towards them.

Casey McGuire Davidson  38:37

That’s already huge plus, and what if you’ve gotten to the point where you both kind of treat each other poorly, like, you’re resentful? You’re standoffish? You know, you’re like, Yeah, I could make a bid. But honestly, I’m frickin pissed at him. I mean, like, I don’t want to screw him.

Anna Aslanian  38:54

Yeah, yeah, whatever. So, you can get to a place like that. You know, and it’s hard to climb out of it. In one of his books. I think John Gottman refers to as like the roach motel like you go, there’s just infested with roaches. But like, it’s hard, right? And I think what happens is, you know, maybe the you feel even contemptuous towards your partner, which is worse, the worst one out of all the four horsemen. I think, you know, what I say to couples like that is kind of sometimes hard to hear. Right. But whether it’s an individual coming from me for help with for the individual growth or a couple, you know, I tell him that I can give you all the tools there are in the research base or not. I can give you different modalities. You know, hey, you know, we have different therapists in our team, and sometimes we do intensives where you just work with different therapists on their specific skills to really get a whole wide variety of options. In one, I can give you books, I can give you podcasts, I can give you all that. But if you’re not willing, right to do the work if you’re like I really am checked out, I don’t really care.

You know, it’s not brain surgery, I can force you to feel a certain way, or I can force you to respond a certain way. And that’s sometimes tough to see, you know. And a lot of times what I will suggest to couples, and this works, if they have kids, you know, the only thing you can decide if you want to be together or not, you know, couples therapy also is not just specifically for couples who want to make it work, I often see couples who come in, and they’re going through divorce, and their goals are just really about co-parenting and just, you know, processing the past, so there is no resentment. Or sometimes couples come in, they’re honest, they’re like, we don’t know we should be together or not great. We’ll kind of work on things and you guys can decide, it’s always your choice, not mine. But I think when there’s like kids involved, for example, right, I’m like, Hey, like you’re modeling for them, what it’s like to communicate with somebody else, what it’s like to, you know, have difficult discussions, what it’s like to love and respect and to be in a relationship. And they’re going to do that with friends, and then their romantic partners. So, even if you choose to go your separate ways, it’s really worth giving this a try, so that your child can witness parents talking respectfully, right. And I think that does something for parents, I’ve noticed because sometimes we got I just don’t even care, right, I’m checked out. But then we’re like, oh, wait, like, there’s a little human watching me and learning how to be human being and I’m setting them up for their future. It’s just, you know, it’s just so more emotional to think about in those terms. And like, yeah, you know, maybe I should learn ways to speak kinder, you know, with their mom or dad, or you know, my partner, because it’s going to come as well, right? And then, you know, there is no harm, like you can learn this and then choose to go your separate ways.

This, this skills will help you with all relationships, not your future relationships, your friendships. So, I think, well, it’s pretty understandable when people get to that point of like, Why do I have to try, I don’t want to do this, this is the theme of work, you know, I get that it’s normal, it’s valid to feel exhausted, burnt out like that. Doubt things you haven’t experienced before. But it’s only going to benefit you if give it a try. Or you seem to want to give it a try. Right? Like, if you are shut down to the idea of wanting to work on things, then there is a much we can do.

Casey McGuire Davidson  42:27

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It’s almost like finding the motivation to make changes in your approach, even when you’re not feeling overly motivated. I could see, you know, the idea of like, Hey, you’re modeling what people should expect and how they should be treated within a relationship. Be, you know, regardless of whether you want to stay in the relationship or not, or if it works out or not, that’s an important motivator, you know, having kids in my mind, and that has thought about that. You’ve mentioned a couple of times podcasts, you can tell them, you know, give them X number of podcasts to listen to, what are your favorite podcasts for these sorts of topics?

Anna Aslanian  43:21

You know, I’m so I don’t accent while different things, I also listen to a lot of audiobooks. And just interviews with different people. So, I couldn’t honestly give you like a top three or my favorite, right? I think for me, because I consumed so much of it, and like, it’s really, you know, per topic, and per episode and what’s going on with me right now, you know, long before podcasts became a thing. You know, I remember in my personal life, if there was a dilemma or question like what, you know, what’s happening with this, like, how do I figure out right? I would just do a little research about like, who are the experts in that field, like, who has, you know, the books, what not, and if I didn’t have time to read the books, or, you know, which I would try to make time because I think it’s great. And, but I would like back in the day, literally YouTube. I remember interviews of that author about this book with Oprah, let’s say, you know, just to get those like, Gem information, like, give me the most important pieces.

So, I think there’s a lot of amazing podcasts out there. I think it’s just depends on, you know, the topic like, this is amazing what you’re doing right? Because it’s so specific to some woman what they’re struggling with. Right. And I think there aren’t many that I’ve seen that really talk about what you’re talking about, right? We’re like, I coped with just drinking, you know, and I realized it’s not working for me, but now have all this relational dilemmas, uh, how do I get the support? Right? So, I think depending on what our listeners are struggling looking for those specific podcasts, and if not like we have these days, like audio books we have, there’s so much, you know, support out there. My suggestion would be just to research, find the experts, and then go from there and see what, who they recommend, what have they’ve worked with, you know, and go from there.

Casey McGuire Davidson  45:29

Yeah, no, that’s great advice. And that’s something that I do because when I’m coaching people, obviously, different things come up that I am not an expert in any way, shape, or form. And so, I actually try to find experts to interview about that topic. So, for example, I’ve had people on talking about relationships with narcissists, ADHD and alcohol, divorce and managing, you know, why a lot of women drink through that or not. Now those three, you know, gaslighting, emotional abuse, like, I don’t, personally, I have experience in those topics. But I know it’s something that my clients and other women have struggled with. So, I think that’s great advice. There are experts in almost every field. And if you do research, you can find ones that resonate with you, in your experience.

Anna Aslanian  46:33

Yeah, absolutely. There’s, you know, we live in a really good time where there is a lot of help available out there. It’s, it’s I think, you know, on the other hand, though, as I’m saying this, it can be overwhelming sometimes where there’s too much, and there’s lots of experts online, you’re like, Well, who I believe you know, what’s going on? Right? And, you know, and I appreciate you saying that, you know, you invite experts, different experts, in areas where you don’t know, I do the same thing I’ll refer out to, you know, other professionals, if they’re looking for something specific, that I know that somebody else can do better job, you know, and I think, as you’re looking for help, and they’d love to help us out there, whatever you need help with, you know, do your research, you know, ask them about their work experience and education. They’re the work they’ve done, you know, and what they’re trained and whatever else how they work, so you can find the right fit for you.

Casey McGuire Davidson  47:25

Yeah, absolutely. I mentioned before we jumped on that I wanted to ask you about EMDR and attachment, EMDR trauma, because I know you’re a therapist in both of those. And I did EMDR after I stopped drinking, I found it really helpful. I had done sort of cognitive behavioral therapy talk therapy in the past. Can you sort of explain to the audience about both of those approaches and sort of areas? If they haven’t heard of it before?

Anna Aslanian  48:02

Yeah, absolutely.

So, you know, with EMDR, it’s a modality that was first created to treat trauma, by Francine Shapiro, she’s the one who came up with it. And she was, you know, upset one day and walking. And as she was going on the walk, she realized that after the walk, she felt a little better, what was happening, you know, until she did more research and realized that the idea of, you know, when you’re walking, you’re taking, obviously, one foot than the other, right, it’s alternating feet as you’re walking, or you’re running, I think she was actually on the run. So, then you have bilateral stimulation, which is that alternating sides, and she tested it, you know, that did her research with eye movements. So what that would look like is, you know, in sessions, you know, is clients would share about their traumatic memory and she would narrow it down to what image they see and what sounds you know, and what, just so they can feel it and also what negative beliefs they have about themselves, you know, what they can their body disturbing that feels she they would move their eyes back and forth without moving your head, right, just kind of following her finger back and forth. And that would made a lot of good progress. So that was the very, very beginning of EMDR. Since then, it’s evolved a lot and there is different ways you don’t have to move your eyes back and forth, even though that’s you can still do that with a therapist. But there is tapping right where you can just, sort of, self tap or your body. You know, your knees on your shoulders, arms. There is also sounds, you know, like just alternating tapping sounds and you can hear that but just alternating Um, or, you know, you know, if it’s on the computer, sometimes there’s just like a dot that you will follow with your eyes instead of, you know, someone’s hand going back and forth all the time.

So, there’s different ways to do that. But the idea is that when traumatic things happen to us, and I should also know that by trauma, you know, it’s not only things that happened, right, obviously, you know, we think of trauma, and we think of war and sexual assaults, and, you know, natural disasters and things like witnessing an accident, right, and those are absolutely traumatic. But also, trauma can happen, when, you know, small things add up to they call a small t traumas, right, a bad breakup, or loss of a pet, you know, things like that. And trauma can also happen, when things that should have happened, did not, right. So as a child, I should have felt, let’s say, protected and taken care of, and guided, I didn’t have anybody taking care of me. So, there was neglect, let’s say, right, that’s also true, even though nothing specific happened. But what was supposed to happen did not happen.

Those people have different types of traumas, and they carry them, you know, sometimes knowingly, sometimes unknowingly. And I know there’s a lot of conversation these days about, like, what is this trauma is that trauma, you know, and it’s very unique, it’s really how it lands in your nervous system, you know, the same experience a breakup, let’s say, right, might be very traumatic for one person and not for the other person. And it’s not right or wrong, it’s just what made what many did makeup? And how, what kind of support did you have at that time? What age did I happen at, you know, how your nervous system respond, and what have you? How have you coped since then, so all of those factors need to be taken into account. But so, with EMDR, you know, it’s an 8 phase model. It really helps with, you need to go with someone who’s trained in this, you know, and they help you get to know your first with history, taking the help resource to you.

So, you have some coping skills to tolerate when you talk about the difficult things, you know, we don’t just throw you into the trauma work and expect you to be okay, we prepare you beforehand. And it really, it’s a beautiful process for this healing can just organically happen. Because this crumble usually gets frozen in time and doesn’t matter if it happened. Yesterday, last week, or 10 years ago, when I’m triggered by something that reminds me of that time, my whole body is activated, my whole mind is activated, right? My defenses are up. And it’s as if it’s happening right now. You know, so what EMDR does it does not erase your memory or anything like that, it just really helps decrease the activation level. So, you still remember what happened, let’s say there was no soul, he also remember those salt, but the activation, the disturbance that comes along with it will be taken away, you know, that’s kind of the goal. And if there are negative beliefs about yourself, like, I’m not good enough, or, you know, I can’t do anything, right. They’re replaced with something positive, right? Like, I’m more than enough, I can do things that I like, you know, I have a say in what I do, you know, something more empowering that, you know, you come up with a therapist doesn’t tell you during that you kind of develop on your own.

Now with attachment books, EMDR. That is, the developer of that is Laurel Parnell, and she kind of looked that what was missing was that, like, the early childhood wounds, and the, what I mentioned earlier, like things that should have happened that didn’t, right, so it wasn’t about, you know, clients coming in, and, you know, they had a car accident and other scared of cars, right? It was more about, you know, I grew up in a family where my feelings were not acknowledged. And I was kind of I raised myself, let’s say, and I never felt nurtured. And now I have a hard time being vulnerable. And I have all this layers of protection around me and maybe I mind my attachment style is, you know, anxious or avoidant, right, I want closest, but I’m scared of it. Like those dynamics. It’s so it’s similar as the regular EMDR you know, it came from that, but there is some nuances in terms of being less structured in a way of the phases but also, there’s lots more resources available to really fill in the gaps and the resources to like simplify for our listeners is what that is, is you know, whatever we didn’t receive those gaps of what we shouldn’t should have ADD and didn’t, you know, resources, kind of fill it in, right. So if I didn’t have a nurturing parent, and I’d never got any nurturance growing up or protection, then you in your room Sources work, you really work on developing these figures of nurturing this, people places and things, then then you can tap in. And it’s interesting that how our nervous system can take that in, you know, because it really feels as if it’s happening now. And it can go into your childhood and as a child, you can experience what you did not have, it’s not the same as lying to yourself and saying, Well, you know, I’m going to pretend like I have a nurturing parent, that’s what we’re doing. We are just introducing your nervous system to experience what that would have felt like. And, and when you get that, and you realize, I can give that to myself, now, I have all this resources. Now. You know, whether it’s people in my life or, you know, real or imagined people’s spirituality, you know, people come up with different resources for them, and there is no right or wrong, that whatever works for you. And they build that connection with people in their lives now, or in their internal worlds, like who they can imagine.

And I’ve seen that work wonderfully for people, because just because he didn’t have something growing up as a medium to carry those, you know, wounds with you forever. You can do something about them now. It’s a very beautiful process. And, yeah, it’s so transformative. And I love seeing people come up on the other side and have this wonderful, empowering messages about who they are. And I’ve seen forgiveness happen that way, too. Or some horrible things happen. And somehow they are on the other side now. And you know, there is wisdom, there is forgiveness, there is calm. Yeah, it’s a beautiful process, you know, so I really encourage people to read up more about it. Look up therapists, you know, if you want to catch people, because the EMDR  Parnell Institute has a directory with therapists who were trained in that modality in their area. You can look at the Andrea, if you want the other EMDR. You know, just there is help out there. You just got to find it. Right.

Casey McGuire Davidson  57:08

What was the directory you mentioned for finding a therapist.

Anna Aslanian  57:13

So, for the attachment focused EMDR, it’s Parnell Institute. LAUREL Parnell is the person who developed attachment focused EMDR. And if you go on their website, there is a directory, and per country, you know, area, you can kind of narrow down your search and find therapists who are trained with that attachment focused perspective.

Casey McGuire Davidson  57:36

Yeah, and I think that’s what I did, as well, in terms of attachment focused on what I thought was really interesting. I was, sort of, this person who never cried and apologized when I got upset, and yet had a lot of anxiety that I felt like I should be able to handle. And when I did EMDR, I had done lots of talk therapy, and very weirdly, within, you know, 15 minutes of starting, I was crying. And I was like, I don’t know what’s happening, I never cry. And it was really powerful. And realizing that my anxiety related to triggers was really deeply rooted. And that’s why I was yeah, in a way that was so out of balance with what was actually happening, but it felt very physical.

Anna Aslanian  58:32

Absolutely. And you know, I think there’s an explanation for that, right? A lot of the try student in our right brain hemisphere. So, that’s the psychosomatic body felt intuitively known, you know, trauma where you can’t logically talk yourself out of it.

Right, your body feels a certain way, it feels anxiety, because when triggered, and you can just tell yourself don’t feel this way. And the symptoms will decrease. That doesn’t work that way. Because that’s left brain. That’s the other part of us, right. And, you know, there’s a lot of different ways. And sometimes you need that left brain, like CBT, and things like that, just to talk through it. That also is very helpful. But sometimes there is things that no matter how much you talk about, right? It’s deeper than that. We need subconscious mind to be activated and to be processed.

Casey McGuire Davidson  59:24

Yeah, that’s really interesting. Well, thank you for taking the time to dive into that.

Anna Aslanian  59:30

Of course. I love your questions. Thank you.

Casey McGuire Davidson  59:33

Oh, yeah, well, so if people want to find you, if they want to work with you, if they want to learn more, what’s the best way for them to connect with you?

Anna Aslanian  59:44

They can find me and my colleagues at www.mytherapycorner.com. All one word, mytherapycorner. We also post a lot of you know, free resources on our Instagram page. And our Facebook page. Both are @mytherapycorner.

And you know, another thing I would suggest is, joining the newsletter. We only send it once a month because we don’t want to bombard too much people.

I was busy, but there’s good, a lot of good free resources that go out. That can be helpful. Everything around, you know, trauma, anxiety, addiction, as well as couple’s therapy, and relationship work.

Casey McGuire Davidson  1:00:25

That’s great. Well, thank you so much for sharing your expertise and taking the time to come on the show.

Anna Aslanian  1:00:32

Thank you.

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Hello Someday podcast.

If you’re interested in learning more about me, the work I do, and access free resources and guides to help you build a life you love without alcohol. Please visit hellosomedaycoaching.com. And I would be so grateful if you would take a few minutes to rate and review this podcast so that more women can find it. And join the conversation about drinking less and living more.