SUMMARY KEYWORDS

drinking, boundary, coaching, clients, relationship, life, thinking, growing pains, pleasing, anger, casey, alcohol, parents, podcast, talk

SPEAKERS: Casey McGuire Davidson + Hailey Magee

00:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday Podcast, the podcast for busy women who are ready to drink less and live more. I’m Casey McGuire Davidson, ex-red wine girl turned life coach helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle of wine and night to unwind. I thought that wine was the glue, holding my life together, helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job and my busy life. I didn’t realize that my love affair with drinking was making me more anxious and less able to manage my responsibilities.

In this podcast, my goal is to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating and living a life you don’t want to escape from.

Each week, I’ll bring you tools, lessons and conversations to help you drink less and live more. I’ll teach you how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture without a bus, how to sit with your emotions, when you’re lonely or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self soothe without a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

I am so glad you’re here. Now let’s get started.

Hi there. If you’re listening to this podcast, I’m betting you’ve been going back and forth for a while now on whether or not you should stop drinking. And I want you to raise your hand. If you’ve had any one of these thoughts.

You might have been thinking, I’m not that bad. I actually don’t want to stop drinking completely. I just want to drink like a normal person. Or maybe you come home after work. And you think I know I shouldn’t drink tonight. But I literally can’t relax or have fun without it. It’s really common to say I’ve tried to take a break from drinking before. But it’s just too hard. I always give up anyway. So what’s the point in trying again? Or here’s one I hear all the time from women. Everyone I know drinks. If I stopped drinking, I will be bored. Or I’ll be boring. I’ll have no fun. I’ll never be invited anywhere. I’ll just sit home and be miserable. Or maybe you can insert whatever your reason is there.

So is your hand up? If it is that is totally okay. And that’s because taking a break from drinking and changing your relationship with alcohol. This shit is hard.

And that’s why I’m really pumped to invite you to my completely free 60 minute masterclass the five secrets to successfully take a break from drinking, even if you’ve tried and you failed in the past.

After you take this free class, you’ll realize why what you’ve been doing up until now hasn’t been working, and what to do.

Instead, we’re going to cover all the juicy topics, including what questions you need to stop asking yourself, because they’re setting you up for self sabotage, not for success. We’re going to talk about exactly what you need to do differently. So you can stop the exhausting cycle of stopping drinking and then saying screw it, and starting again.

And we’re going to talk about the real reasons you haven’t been successful. And I’m betting they’re not what you think they are. And this isn’t surface level stuff. I am handing over the strategies and the mindset shifts I go through every day with my private coaching clients. If you’re listening to this podcast, I really encourage you to take a moment and sign up for this completely free masterclass. It will help you on your journey to drink class and live more to feeling better. So if you want to save your spot, go to hellosomedaycoaching.com/class while the class is still available, and I really hope to see you there.

Hi there. Today we’re talking about growing pains and releasing your past identity so that you can evolve into a new one. I know when I was drinking, I identified as a red wine girl. That was part of who I thought I was; it was tied into my persona at work and in social situations and in my marriage. And a lot of us have fears about when we put that identity down. What comes next and it’s scary. I was like, Are people still going to want to hang out with me? What am I going to do in my free time, all that kind of stuff. 

So today we’re going to talk about those growing pains. We’re going to talk about how to release your past identity and feel really excited about your new one. And I love my guest today. You may recognize her from my fifth episode, which was on codependency recovery boundaries and people pleasing, which is one of my most popular episodes. Her name is Hailey Magee. 

She’s a codependency recovery coach who helps individuals of all ages break the people pleasing pattern, set empowered boundaries, and master the art of speaking their truth. If you don’t follow her on Instagram, you should. She’s got over 130,000 followers, and I love the pieces and thoughts she puts up there. I always tell my clients who struggle with people pleasing relationships or boundaries to go over there and follow her. So Hailey’s worked with over 150 clients from the US, Canada, Ireland, France, Yemen, South Africa, and more. She’s facilitated group coaching for employees. In partnership with We Work in Amazon and women in music. She hosts a bi monthly virtual workshop, including empowered boundary setting for the recovered people pleaser and courageous dating for the recovering people pleaser. And she resides in Seattle. We actually met at a She Recovered sharing circle years ago, and Hailey just hit three years alcohol free. So Hailey, welcome to the podcast.

 

Hailey Magee  06:44

Thanks for that. Casey, I’m so glad to be here. This is very exciting. I know. It’s been 100 episodes.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  06:51

I can’t either. But you know, I think you were my first guest episode as well. So I loved that conversation. It’s really popular, and I’m excited to have you back on.

 

Hailey Magee  07:04

I’m so excited to be back on. I think like, this feels like a really natural next conversation for us to have. It’s like, alright, we’re all stoked about quitting drinking, like breaking the people pleasing pattern, whatever. But then it’s like, oh, there are some hard parts to this journey. There are some growing pains. And I think it’s so important that we normalize those.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  07:23

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I was even messaging with a client today, which is my favorite part where she’s stopped drinking, and she’s having more time and energy and mindspace to think about other things. And instead of worrying about her drinking and feeling hungover, she’s like, You know what I’m going to apply for this, you know, Master’s in music education program. And I’m like, That is cool. That is way cooler than feeling like garbage.

 

Hailey Magee  07:55

Oh, yeah, that’s huge, just like this opportunity to look within. And I think, what’s interesting about that, like in that story, there can be so much excitement at embracing the new. And I think for so many of us at times, there’s almost the opposite. There can be this apprehension of, you know, when I’m not being the red wine girl, like you said, or when I’m not being the laid back chill person that everyone can count on to say, yes, it’s almost like this existential crisis. Yeah, it can be like, Well, I’ve identified with this for so long, who am I? And will people value me and like me, when I’m not being that old self?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  08:31

Yeah. And often, you know, I hear from people, they’re like, A, they feel trapped. They’re like, I don’t even know what I want to do. And even if I figured it out, I have a mortgage and this job and a marriage, like they’ve set up their life in a particular way. And they just feel, you know, they have very black and white thinking, right? Like, what am I supposed to do, quit my job and become something completely new? And what I’m hoping we’ll talk about is like, there are a lot of steps that you can take in that evolution, even to figure out who you are, and to take away some of that fear.

 

Hailey Magee  09:08

Mm hmm. I totally agree. And I like the idea of it being a process, maybe even one that, you know, infinite steps and infinite process. I don’t know if we ever like 100%, you know, figure out or find out who we are. But I think there’s a core that we can get closer and closer to.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  09:24

Yeah, no. Well, so tell me what are some of the growing pains that occur when we start honoring our own needs, stepping into the newer, healthier identities and sort of putting down the wine bottle?

 

Hailey Magee  09:38

Yeah, that’s really interesting. I feel like there’s a couple and I’d love to hear your thoughts on this too, based on your work with clients and on the podcast. I feel like for me, you know, a lot of the clients I work with are similarly breaking old, like addictive patterns, specifically those that have to do with codependency and people pleasing. And so in my work, I see a lot of people like a lot of growing pains. are moving out of relationships that no longer feel aligned. So maybe in the past, certain relationships have felt like, you know, a cozy t-shirt, right? They were familiar, they were comfortable, but then you grow and you outgrow them. And you notice they don’t feel quite right anymore. So that’s one huge growing pain that I see among many clients is just outgrowing relationships and knowing how to navigate that process with like, honesty, but also compassion.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  10:25

And I can imagine that is incredibly scary, either to consider, I mean, it’s one thing if you’re outgrowing friendships, or outgrowing, you know, spending a lot of time with your work colleagues, but if the person is possibly your spouse, and you have children with them, that to me would be very scary. Or do you work with women who are sort of in that space?

 

Hailey Magee  10:50

So many? You know, I’d say it’s really common, especially because oftentimes, these patterns like whatever it is, like self sacrifice, people pleasing codependency, they tend to show up most potently in our romantic relationships, because they tend to be the most intimate. For some people. That’s not the case, but for many it is. And so when we shift these patterns, it’s like, our romantic relationships are put to the test, like, can they endure these massive shifts we’re experiencing? And can our partner or partners shift along with us?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  11:25

Yeah, yeah. And I know, I mean, I’m thinking of one client in particular, and I’ll keep her completely anonymous, of course, but, you know, a lot of her drinking was sort of to tolerate sort of disappointments in her relationship with her husband. And now that she stopped drinking, you know, we talked about how the relationship stuff hasn’t really shifted right, despite her best efforts, and communication and therapy, and all the things saying what she needs, but she has three kids, and he’s a good father and a good provider. And so she’s like, I almost wish it was worse. Because there was some reason, you know, that it was clearly bad, so that I could leave, and not be in this middle space of like, do you really get to leave your relationship when you have three kids, you know, who have a good father, just because it’s unsatisfying, emotionally, romantically, sexually supportively. That, to me, is obviously something only she can figure out. But I’d love to get your take on that.

 

Hailey Magee  12:42

Well, it’s so funny, you offered this anecdote because this is very timely. I, if I can, I’d like to share something that just yesterday, I posted on my Instagram account that speaks to this exact phenomenon and the essence and it was controversial. Let me tell you that like, this is not something everyone agreed with. But here’s what the post said. It said, we don’t talk enough about the courage it takes to leave a relationship, not because it’s toxic or unhealthy. But simply because in your gut, you know, it’s not what you truly want. And that post applies not only to you know, marital relationships, or romantic ones, but even friendships. Yeah, right. There’s something very typically I feel like especially in romantic discourse, in this culture, there’s this idea that, of course, you can leave a marriage if it’s truly toxic, or if it’s abusive, or if it’s, um, you know, something like that. 

But then there’s almost this idea that to leave a relationship because it no longer feels aligned with who you are and what you want. There’s, we were told we’re selfish, or we’re told we’re too picky or too demanding. And that’s really challenging, because the way I see it, I would love to hear your thoughts on this, Casey, but like, for me, I have gone through this process a lot over the past year or two, like outgrowing relationships that no longer feel like a good fit. Because I’ve changed we all you know, I’ve changed a hell of a lot whether it’s through boundary setting, being better able at honoring my own needs, like realizing I’m an introvert and realizing I need a little more space than I used to do whatever it is.

And I realized, at least for me, it’s like, when I feel disconnected in these relationships, it doesn’t serve either of us. If I stay and put on this like false performative, happy with everything facade. It’s patronizing the way I see it, like the other party deserves to be in relationships with friendly and romantic with people who want to be in relationships with them. And so my take is like, by staying here, despite my strong sense of mismatch, aren’t I robbing us both of the potential for fulfilling and meaningful relationship elsewhere?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  14:51

Hi there. If you’re listening to this episode, and have been trying to take a break from drinking, but keep starting and stopping and starting again, I want to invite you to take a look at my on demand coaching course, the sobriety starter kit.

The sobriety starter kit is an online self study sober coaching course that will help you quit drinking and build a life you love without alcohol without white knuckling it or hating the process. The course includes the exact step by step coaching framework I work through with my private coaching clients, but at a much more affordable price than one on one coaching. And the sobriety starter kit is ready, waiting and available to support you anytime you need it. And when it fits into your schedule. You don’t need to work your life around group meetings or classes at a specific day or time.

This course is not a 30 day challenge, or a one day at a time approach. Instead, it’s a step by step formula for changing your relationship with alcohol. The course will help you turn the decision to stop drinking, from your worst case scenario to the best decision of your life.

You will sleep better and have more energy, you’ll look better and feel better. You’ll have more patience and less anxiety. And with my approach, you won’t feel deprived or isolated in the process. So if you’re interested in learning more about all the details, please go to www.sobrietystarterkit.com. You can start at any time and I would love to see you in the course 

 

I do know that post because I literally screenshotted it and sent it to this client. I love your posts on Instagram. So I told her she should follow you because I thought it was so timely and accurate. And you know, I did, I asked her, I was like how do you think he would feel if you guys were to break up to separate whatever. And she said he’d probably be happier. But the kids aren’t, you know, like nothing, there is no conflict, right? No toxicity. So, you know, let’s keep going. But I would love to keep that type of thing in mind. Because it’s one thing to say, you know, I’m a teacher, and I’m going to go back in part time to study music education, or get a PhD in that it’s one thing for me to say, alright, I was a red wine girl. But now I’m running a 10k. And I’m gonna go back to coaching school. Right? Those are shifts, but they’re not as big shifts as Yikes, I’m not sure this relationship serves me anymore. And it’s complicated. Or, you know, I want to quit my job outright and do something else that is a big departure in terms of being home or now traveling or not making as much money or whatever it is. Right. Those are bigger. And I’d like to talk about both the small and the big ones.

 

Hailey Magee  18:30

Yeah, I think we should, because the scope, it’s similar in different, right, and one of my favorite tools for this because when we’re caught up in the thick of that decision making, it’s obviously so easy to focus on the immediate. How will this impact myself, other people, my environment, how awful will it be? And a tool I use with my clients a lot. Whether they’re contemplating some of these out, outgrowing or whether they’re thinking even just about like setting a hard boundary with someone is I encourage them to think about the long game. So imagine two things. The first is like what will it be like, you know, a year from now or five years from now, if you do make the shift, and if you do set the boundary, but then also in the second one can be even more motivating. Alright, so what if you don’t? What if you never set the boundary or you never make this shift? What will you notice one year from now five years from now? And it’s often that second question that really gets people thinking beyond the immediate Band Aid being pulled off and into what they want their lives to

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  19:27

look like. Yeah, I mean, I often ask the question 10 years from now, will you regret not taking this chance? And a lot of people know in their gut. That that’s true. One of the things I was laughing about recently was that a client messaged me, and she, you know, we’ve been working together for like six months and she was like, I quit my job today. And I was laughing because she was my third client who had quit her job in like three months, and I was like, I promise you, if you decide to work with me, you do not have to quit your job. But you don’t not, you know, I’ve worked with lots of clients who have not quit their jobs. But I was just like, Wow, that’s amazing, because she knew, for the longest time, that it was a square peg in a round hole, and she wasn’t happy, and she could do more. And she was just like, once you stop drinking, and have that energy and that tolerance, and you’re like, wow, and that confidence, you know, what I am strong and capable and high achieving, and I don’t need to, you know, put my nose down and, and put my head down and grit my teeth through another decade. Like, I want to see what inspires me. And, you know, it was just, I was laughing. I was like, wow, you’re right third, quiet to do that. And they’re all good. They found, you know, doing other things, but it was just cracking me up.

 

Hailey Magee  21:03

Isn’t that incredible? And it just goes to show like drinking and other patterns like this. They separate us from who we really are. So when we let these patterns go, we’re like, oh, well look at all these parts of my life that fit the old me, but not the new me. And I think another growing pain, similar, but it’s like the flip side of the coin that I’d love to talk with you about is like, all right. So far, we’re talking about like, the person’s own reaction to the gifts. And then like the external, right, so how other people in our lives react to us, when we let these things go? Like, what do you notice most among your clients when they, you know, quit drinking? Like what kind of responses do they get from people in their lives?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  21:44

Yeah, I mean, I think that there is a lot of defensiveness, sometimes, especially, you know, with spouses, if their spouse were was their drinking, buddy, if their spouse didn’t, you know, worry about their drinking, if they weren’t, like, you know, a couple of different things. One, the partner might drink too much. And they were drinking too much together. And when you know, someone stops, it shines a light on the other person’s drinking, because it’s normalized if you’re both drinking a lot. And so there can be a lot of, sort of subtle sabotage from a partner, which, you know, you know, how hard it is to quit drinking, and how hard it is to make that decision to move on. And, you know, a partner could be like, Oh, I know, you had a hard day. So I just, you know, brought this bottle of wine home in case you want to drink it. And it’s like, Oh, my God, I’m alcohol free. What I Yeah, I had a hard day or someone’s like, Oh, we’re going away to this romantic thing. I brought champagne, just in case, you know. 

 

And so there’s that subtle sabotage. Interestingly, even my husband because I had him on the podcast, and we talked about it, he was sort of a normal drinker, we’ve been together for a very long time, when you start doing new things, you know, you have to when you stopped drinking, pull in other supports, spend time doing different things, I went to therapy, I took up running, I did all these other things. I had some sober friends, and it was going to dinner parties, they happen to be all women. So I’m sure it would have been worse if they weren’t. But he was worried that I might outgrow him, or that I might not want him. Because I was changing so much, even though he wanted me to drink less. 

 

And I think, you know, sometimes there’s resistance with family and friends like, Oh, you think you’re better than me now? Or you’re judging me or like, or people, women are putting up more boundaries. And the husbands kind of liked it when they drank because nobody’s perfect. And women tend to ask for more when they’re not drinking, because when we’re drinking, we want, we don’t want them to be like, Yeah, what about you? You know what I mean? Like, look at you, you’re drinking on the couch every night. So you take that away. And once you’re feeling more confident, you’re like, dude, this isn’t cool that you do X, Y, and Z and like you coughing in a decade, you know, because you haven’t wanted me to say anything about you. But suddenly, you’re all good. And you’re raising the bar on what you require of me.

 

Hailey Magee  24:31

That’s right. That’s really interesting, right? It’s like raising the bar on the whole thing and needing more from it

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  24:37

because you realize you deserve more. And the way some things are set up in your relationship or how you’re being treated or talk to you or the division of labor is not equitable and not okay. And so you want to change things and that’s hard.

 

Hailey Magee  24:52

That’s right. Yeah, those schisms that can create even in like marriages, it’s really tough. Like, you know, one quote I forget the original author of this quote, I don’t even know if it’s known. But it’s that quote that goes like the only people who get upset when you set boundaries are the ones who benefited from you having none. Yeah, it’s like, damn, first of all, yes. There’s also one of the best books I’ve ever read in this whole work of like learning how to kind of set boundaries and self advocate was The Dance of Intimacy by Harriet Lerner. And I highly recommend it for any person who is kind of changing up the patterns in their intimate relationships by quitting drinking, setting boundaries, you name it, I could probably use that I really, this book will blow your mind. It’s great. Like I write once a year. Maybe we can include it in like the notes or whatever. But newly. 

 

So Harriet, I’ll just call her Harriet, because I wish we were on a first name basis. So Harriet says this whole, she’s a Bowen therapist. And she describes this process by which when we’re in a relationship, and we set a boundary, whether it’s like quitting drinking some other boundary, it’s really common for the other party to have what she calls a counter move, which is basically them with their words, or their actions being like, change back change back, right, because they, they crave that equilibrium that we once had. And if you can stay firm in your boundary, and resist that counter move, it kind of forces the whole relationship to find a new equilibrium. And that is a growing pain, like that process of like navigating those choppy waters and being like, oh, there’s this tension. Now things used to be so smooth. And I think it’s really worth it to go through. Because sometimes on the other side, we reach a new, healthier equilibrium. 

 

Now, I think about this isn’t quite with drinking, but I know I had to set some really powerful some of the first big boundaries I set were with my parents, because I love them both. And we’ve unpacked this at length all of us. But once I started doing some, like research and reading about codependency, I had realized some dynamics within my family that I didn’t feel were healthy. And after a while of like, you know, therapy, doing all the good stuff, I actually decided to tell them this and say, Hey, here’s some of the patterns that I am finding, like that aren’t working for me anymore. And it was so interesting, because when you talk about boundary setting everyone focuses on like just getting the words out. Not enough people talk about self soothing through the hard moments after because it took a while for especially me and my mom were superduper close, I love her, we had to kind of change the way we interacted with each other, you know, there was less oversharing, there was less, kind of like enmeshment in our connection. And it took like a solid year or so for us to find a new equilibrium and feel as close as we didn’t prior to that. And that year was really hard. Because I had a lot of self doubt, like, oh my god, did I destroy this relationship? Did I ruin the closeness we share? Am I just being too selfish, too demanding. And I just for anyone listening who’s like, Oh, God, I’m in those choppy waters right now. Like, it takes time to find new equilibrium, and oftentimes is found if you and the other person are willing to find it together.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  28:05

Yeah, I had so many thoughts when you were talking about that. Because also, when, you know, some of my clients have stopped drinking there, they found as they go through all this, that they are so much more honest with their partners than they have been in like a decade of, of marriage. Because, you know, I know for me, like I didn’t want to stop drinking, but I was worried about it. The last person I wanted to tell was my husband because I lived with him. And I was going to live with him for 30 more years. So like, I didn’t want to say something. And then every time I ordered a third glass of wine at a restaurant, or brought a bottle of wine home for dinner for him to be, you know, quote unquote, watching me. A

 

nd so I was really, maybe not as much as dishonest. But I did not share, probably you know, when you’re drinking or worried about your drinking, it’s on your mind a lot. Every morning when you wake up with a hangover. Every time you’re debating if you have time to stop at the store and grab a bottle for that evening, every time. You know, occasionally I’d wake up on the couch at 3am and be like you have to go upstairs and like open the door to our bedroom and it was pitch dark. So it consumed a lot of my life. And I did not handle any single bit of that. 

 

And I know that for my clients too. They have this sort of perfectionist thing with their husband where they don’t tell them when kids are hard or when they don’t like something because they drink a lot to tolerate it. And that’s scary and hard or just I don’t know they don’t want to have uncomfortable conversations. And so now that they navigate like you said those choppy waters they’re like Wow, I feel so much more supported because he sees me, and he can help me. And we’ve never weirdly been honest with each other. And also he gets to be more vulnerable about the stuff that’s hard for him. I mean, my husband said to me, like, you know, I think, you know, he read a quote, and he said it to me. And then he’s like, I think it’s true, because I said, I didn’t think it was true. And this guy said, I think my wife and kids would rather me fall off my white horse, then get or die on my white horse, then stepped down from it. And I was like, There’s no way that’s true. He’s like, I don’t know, you know, like, she was just like, really is not. And I was, you know, you, when everyone’s pretending everything’s, you know, nothing to see here. You don’t start those conversations, and then they don’t feel like they can, either.

 

Hailey Magee  30:57

That’s right. And isn’t it? Yeah, it’s like that perfectionism. And that performance, like, I want to be lovable, I want to be perfect. And then it’s like, what that prevents perfectionism is like the opposite of authenticity.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  31:10

And it prevents you from actually getting the support that you deserve.

 

Hailey Magee  31:14

Exactly. You know, and I think it takes time. Yeah, in the beginning, I don’t know, it’s worth talking about, like, in the beginning, those authentic conversations where you’re sharing your fears, or you’re sharing those anxieties you have like, it can be awkward as hell. And I think that’s part of the process. Like, I think it’s important to hold space for the fact that right out of the gate, you might not go into these conversations like fearlessly or confidently, or like, you know, it takes time for us to learn that skill, it really is a skill, we have to build with practice of authentic communication.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  31:47

Yeah, and a lot of times, I mean, I know I really don’t like conflict, and you know, people naturally get defensive when you say something, and you can use as many I feel statements as you want, they’re still gonna get defensive, you know?

 

Hailey Magee  32:02

That’s right. And it’s interesting how, like, as you’re sharing, about stuff with like drinking and how it impacts in marriage, I’m thinking about my own work with just like, you know, codependency in the process of Lutz and not everyone resonates with that word. So there’s like codependency, people pleasing this process of like, losing oneself in a relationship or just the external. And I think that’s a huge similarity between what you and I do. Casey is like, when you cut away that external focus, the bottle, or the partner or the martyrdom, you are left with your own self. And I think that’s another key growing pain is that like, many of us who have been focused and thinking about drinking for so long, are thinking about how to be the best people pleaser became D, we’re left with the reality that like our own lives, and our own dreams are the only person whose responsibility that all is, is us. And many of us are so not used to taking responsibility and like, spending mental time with that, like, it’s so much easier to think about the distractions.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  33:04

Yeah, and you know, that way, it’s not your fault, you get to be unhappy with things not being perfect, and it being your job or your partner, money or something else. Not that those aren’t valid and important, but if you, you know, are relying on others to make you happy or see your needs or meet them, then you don’t have to do it.

 

Hailey Magee  33:28

That’s right. It’s kind of like this easy way. God I remember like, and that and it comes full circle because I think back to like me having those moments and I realize you start to realize things like well, I guess I’m not that happy in my job. I guess I’m not that happy where I live and then comes the quitting. It’s kind of like this cycle that keeps happening.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  33:48

Yeah. And at the same time, you know, I always think if I just kept drinking, I would have been content, treading water in this just okay, kind of shitty sometimes good life, because I was numbed out enough and blaming myself enough to tolerate it. You know? Yeah.

 

Hailey Magee  34:13

I relate to that so deeply. Oh, my God. I remember like, I remember the morning I quit for good drinking wise. I had just had like a, you know, one night stand. I was pretty hungover. I was Uber going back to my apartment. And like, I remember it was like a really beautiful morning, like the sun was rising over the city and I had recently moved to Seattle. So I was just like seeing the city and it’s like pristine sunrise beauty. And I just remember thinking to myself, like, sometimes we have these moments that just hit different. And I thought to myself, like I will really never be able to experience like the full beauty of this new city and all it has to hold. If I’m hung over like this and numbed out like this, and I don’t know something about that moment shifted at all for me

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  35:00

It was a hangover, or was it the one night stand? Or was it some combination of the two?

 

Hailey Magee  35:06

The sort of the unease I felt?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  35:10

Yeah, like when you’re like, I can’t appreciate the beauty of this moment, if I’m hungover was it just feeling so physically ill,

 

Hailey Magee  35:19

I think it was just kind of like it was a mixture of kind of like the icky headache of the hangover, but also that feeling. For me, what really got me to quit, was the unease that came when I would make promises to myself that I couldn’t keep. You know, for me, toward the end of my drinking, I wasn’t even getting that hung over that often. I wasn’t making the same reckless decisions I’d made in college or whatever. It was different. It was like, I promised myself I wouldn’t drink this weekend. And that weekend, I’d have like two glasses of wine. And it didn’t matter. It didn’t matter the amount. All I knew was that I wasn’t respecting my own boundaries with myself. And I hated not to use a strong word, but I did. I hated the feeling that I couldn’t trust myself to protect myself. Yeah, that’s me over the edge. Yeah.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  36:07

One of the things you were talking about your parents, this sort of other thing that I remember and it is probably from your Instagram, I took a screenshot of it too, is that people pleasers usually start out as parent pleasers. Right, that is so true for me.

 

Hailey Magee  36:27

Yeah, resonant? Yeah. Yeah. I think for so many. I mean, this is where we learn. And like, what’s so interesting about that, too, is like, I get a lot of people who come to me, and they’re confused about why they’re, like, codependent or people pleaser, they’re like, I didn’t grow up in an abusive household. You know, my parents weren’t addicts, I didn’t have like big T trauma. Like, what gives? And I like, you know, that’s not, those are only certain cases, right. And like, so often, our parents are doing the all time best that they can. But if they’re grappling with mental illness, or they struggle to mirror us in our emotions, or they, you know, whatever the case is, like, there’s so many reasons we can start feeling unseen at home, and we can start doing whatever it takes to like, you know, are people pleasing is basically just us as kids being like, see me value me, I’m here, like, love me.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  37:22

You know, and even, you know, my parents were just really busy. And they were, they worked a lot. And we traveled a lot. And they didn’t have a lot of time to take care of my needs or whatever. And so I wanted to make them happy, I think, Okay, this is like the most ridiculous thing I ever did. And looking back, I think I was unpacking it with my therapist, and she, I love her. She’s very down to earth. She’s like, that’s messed up. Because, so we lived in Paraguay, we had sort of a housekeeper, nanny, she lived, you know, firehouse is sounds weird, but it was just the way life is when you move to different third world countries with the American Embassy. And I was six and seven years old. And my parents worked a lot of hours and had a lot of dinner parties and events in other places, because they were diplomats, and also play tennis on the weekends, all of which did not include their six year old and seven year old daughters. And so when they would go to play tennis on Saturday mornings, I would wait until they left, and then spend two hours madly cleaning the house. And by the way, a housekeeper lived with us, like if that tells you anything. And then when they got home, I would hide. So they would be like, Who cleaned this up? You know? And I told my therapist that and she’s like, Yeah, that is messed up. And she said, think of your daughter who was like six at the time. Can you imagine she would ever do something like that? And that was like, never. She would like she’s on YouTube? Like, no, I don’t want to. I was just like, that is desperate for approval on attention. Wow.

 

Hailey Magee  39:15

Wow. Oh my god, I’m having a reaction for two reasons. A, that is intense. I resonate with that story. Like I did very similar things. When I was a kid, the kind of like cleaning for approval, like seemed like I’ve been there to let it’s so interesting, right? Just to notice these patterns in these small ways. It gives it a whole new meaning. It’s like, in what ways was I not, you know, being seen the way I wished to be?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  39:39

Yeah, and when we talk about release in your past identity, to evolve into a new one, it’s not just being a red wine girl. It’s all these subtle messages that people might have said as a complete one off, that you’ve internalized like, you know, my dad once said, like, you know, People who study sociology, which I love, and it’s very, you know, sort of closely linked to coaching, you know, have never, you know, I don’t know one person who majored in that ever amounted to anything. And then he said, at least I don’t have to tell my friends, you’re a Women’s Studies major, and I work in life coaching with women. But I swear to God, that one offhand comment, changed my major, and changed the work I did. I went into consulting and business for 20 fucking years. And I’m sure he doesn’t remember it, he passed away 13 years ago, but in terms of like, all these thoughts that are like, this is my identity. This is how I get approval. This is how I’m valued from my friends, my parents, from my spouse. It’s not what I like, I’m gonna drink over it. But like, what happens if I don’t do it anymore? You know?

 

Hailey Magee  40:57

Yep. Oh, god. Yeah, as a women’s studies. I resonate with that so hard, like, I need to talk to your father, he was like, I’ve been there, that messaging me, oh, my god, the number of times I heard that in school is like, and yet so relevant to the work we do. Now. I mean, gender is infused with all of this, right? But to me, that actually, what you just shared is actually a really nice segue into yet another what I see as like a growing pain of this work, which is something I noticed that maybe you too, is like, when we do start breaking these old patterns, it’s common to feel angry at the folks in our past, who encourage those patterns in us like so it’s really common to be angry at our parents, it’s really common to be angry at people who were now realizing like, oh, they took advantage of me, or they, they really benefited from my people pleasing and never gave anything in return. And it’s common to be really angry at our past selves, who perpetuated the patterns. And like, I like this idea, this topic about anger being not necessarily something that’s bad or wrong, but almost like a necessary phase we have to go through because how common is that? Like? Have you seen this with your clients to OKC? Like anger and stuff from the past?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  42:11

I see it with alcohol. Like every single one of my clients goes through this phase like mourning, alcohol being very uncomfortable navigating change being worried what other people think. And then there’s the anger phase. Like, then there is the I’m looking around, and I’m seeing all the marketing messages, and I’m seeing what’s happening. And this is fucked up. You know, like, there’s that phase where you’re just like, you know, they’re sending me screenshots on Tessa, can you believe this shit? And I’m like, fine. No.

 

Hailey Magee  42:43

Right? It’s like, you can’t unsee it once, you know. Yeah, it’s everywhere.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  42:47

I can see that happening in relationships to absolutely like, Oh, my God, I tolerated this for five years.

 

Hailey Magee  42:55

Exactly. Oh, my right. I tolerated this for five years, or like, I’ve been receiving these covert messages that I should just play small. These small, put other people first. And then yeah, oh my God, you look at the cultural messages. And it’s just this big soup, you know. And I forget where I read this, maybe there’s a great book called rage becomes her. And the author’s name is eluding me, I’ll have to check in on that. But basically, she talks about the difference between anger and sadness, and how sadness is an emotion, that it does not incentivize action. Like when we’re sad, we’re kind of like, still we go within, whereas anger, it incentivizes action, like when we’re angry, it’s this energy that we want to move out of our body, we want to do something with it. And I actually think anger is a really, it’s almost like a sacred thing. Like, of course, we shouldn’t be violent, right? Like, that’s not what I’m saying at all. But like, letting that anger almost like transform you or alchemize you into a version of you, that doesn’t take

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  43:58

Yeah, anymore. You know what, that’s super interesting, because I do core energy coaching with women. And it’s sort of something we do after they reach 60 days alcohol free, and you take this big assessment, sort of like the Enneagram. And it talks about sort of the way you respond to different situations, and people and challenges, right, and there are two types of energy. You will navigate the world with more ease if you move out of them. Level one is feeling like a victim Right? Like you feel powerless to change situations. You feel kind of like you’ve been dealt a bad hand and you just have to play it. And you know, there are feelings of disappointment or I’ve tried before and it didn’t work or basically I have to live this way I have to do this right. Level two is called the fighter and it’s got feelings of you know, blame, resentment, your rotation. You know, it’s the idea of like, this is messed up, who’s to blame? I want to micromanage. I want to change things. But if someone is stuck at that powerless level, you actually want to move them to anger, because at that point, they feel like it’s unfair. They feel like they don’t deserve it. And they have energy behind that. It’s essentially they feel like there was worth more than what’s as an

 

Hailey Magee  45:25

agency is the word that I’m thinking, as you’re saying that, like they’re no longer a victim of their circumstances. They’re an agent, they have the possibility of changing it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that’s so interesting. It’s

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  45:37

hard to move someone from victim to like, I can make this a win win for everyone, right, like just moving them to anger is enough. To help them feel more powerful. You don’t want to live there, because living in a place of blame and resentment and anger is not that fun, either. But at least you’re moving forward.

 

Hailey Magee  45:59

Exactly. I couldn’t agree more. Like in my work, I often noticed it’s almost like a pendulum that reaches equilibrium. Like it starts as what I see a lot is people enter this work, and there’s a lot of victim, the sense of the self being a victim having no control over their circumstances, it’s like everyone walks all over me, and there’s nothing I can do about it. Then there’s a pendulum swing as they start breaking the people pleasing pattern. And it’s, you know, screw y’all I’m setting the most hardcore boundaries ever. I don’t need anyone, like y’all have, you know, just like this really intense anger thing. And I often and people get really freaked out in that stage, because they’re worried that they’re becoming like stone cold germs who don’t care about anyone. But I find that it often settles in the middle, but you kind of have to go through that process. Because there’s a self in you that has been denied and neglected for so long, that sometimes they just need to come out and like have a minute and just be like, I am not taking crap anymore. And then we can totally find equilibrium after.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  46:57

So I know you have a course or workshop, correct me that is how to say no, or what’s the name of it?

 

Hailey Magee  47:05

Yeah, so I have this, this opportunity. So it’s called the Say No Club. And it’s offered in two ways. So one, it’s offered as a like six week group coaching program for folks who learn well in community and love that feedback. And it’s also offered now as a six module self paced course, for like the introverts out there who just kind of want to go at their own pace. But the whole idea behind this opportunity is that like, it’s, you know, an intensive program for folks who want to learn how to start setting empowered boundaries and saying yes to themselves for a change. It walks you through everything from like, what is a boundary? What’s the literal language I can use to set it? How do I enforce it? How do I move through guilt and some of the uncomfortable growing pains like we talked about today? It’s pretty much like a crash course for anyone who really wants to learn the art of boundary setting start to finish.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  47:57

That is very cool. And so as someone is releasing their past identity, you know, going through either not drinking anymore, those growing pains, having some fears or hesitations because they’re comfortable not rocking the boat, in terms of evolving into a new one. What are some, you know, next steps people could take? Are there any activities or, you know, things like that, if someone’s listening to this that they could start with?

 

Hailey Magee  48:29

Yeah, gosh, so many new things. I think, like, I have found it imperative in my mind, these are just a couple that come to mind. There are so many. One of them is like finding a cheerleader, like someone who is not attached to your old identity and someone who supports you moving into the new one. Yeah, like we’re social creatures, right? Like, yeah, I guess maybe we could all just be like totally individualist and not need other people. But the truth is we do so whether that person is a therapist or coach or a best friend or a family member, who, when you do say no to your husband’s bottle of wine, or you do set the hard boundary and you’re afraid of hurting someone, like someone who can say I see you and I think you did a really brave thing. Like that’s everything. Right? So having a cheerleader in your world. 

 

And then also, I think like, and this is a very Kochi thing to say, as I’m sure you know, Casey, but like remembering that feelings can be hard like focusing on your values instead of your feelings. So like, if we’re making all of our decisions based on our in the moment feelings, it’s really common that we’ll avoid situations that cause us fear or guilt or discomfort, which also means we’ll avoid situations that enable us to grow. Yeah. So instead of focusing on, focusing in on your feelings, choosing to focus on your values, like what type of person do you want to be you want to be someone who embodies like Courage, authenticity, freedom, growth, self respect, right? So that’s been one key tool like when I’m feeling really anxious after settling about Free or or, you know, even when I was sitting home by myself on a Friday night sober be like, Oh my god, I’m so boring. You know, it’s like, well, what values Am I embodying right now? And that makes the hard feelings feel a lot more manageable.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  50:12

Yeah. I love that. And, you know, I think it was Elizabeth Gilbert that said, if this is incorrect, someone write me and tell me, you know, that idea of not this? Have you heard that? You know, that I didn’t know. Yeah, just the idea that somewhere, you know, any kind of change, any kind of evolution at its face, often starts with this gut feeling of like, not this, this is not what I want. You don’t know what you want instead. But like just jotting down or paying attention to things that make you think not this can be a stepping stone. And like, just even realizing that does not mean, you have to throw out your whole current existence and screw whoever gets in the way. It’s just like, Okay, I’m ready. You know, I always call it sort of you said, an evolution that never stops. And I love that. I think of it as sort of your divine breadcrumbs. Like when I was working in corporate, when I was drinking, I was unhappy. And yet, I was like, I can’t find another type of career where I will be paid as much where I won’t need to travel, where I can do x, where I won’t do y,it was very black and white. And until I can figure that out, I’m not going to change, I’m stuck, like victim plus black and white plus whatever. And now, I very much think like, once you realize you want something or you want something different, put it out in the universe, take the first step, whether it’s a class, or talking to someone about it, or telling your partner or listening to a podcast on the topic or you know, whatever, read a book, and then that will lead you on to something else. And instead of this, if I don’t know it’s going to be successful, I’m not going to do it. It’s the, this is interesting to me, and another breadcrumb will show up or another person, and you’ll just take steps in a direction that actually interests you. And you don’t need to know where it leads.

 

Hailey Magee  52:28

I love that idea of kind of like following those breadcrumbs and following that curiosity. And what a novel idea, right? Like, we don’t need to have it all figured out. Right away. Right? It’s like just the next best thing, the thing that lights you up just a little bit. I had an old client, one of my very first who used to say just like, when she was trying to discern if something was right for her, whether it was like saying yes to a party or something as heavy as a relationship, just being like, Is it heavy? Or is it light? And you can feel it in your gut? How that feels?

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  52:59

Yeah, I really, I really liked that. And I think also, you know, I hear a lot of times, and it’s sort of the, this can’t change, I’m stuck. There’s nothing to be done. Like, yeah, but I don’t have time. I have kids, and I have this and that. And trust me, I get it. And you know, it, you can take small steps, like, you know, you can say, Okay, well, when I’m not drinking over six months, I will have time to sign up for this music, Master’s class, or this coaching class, or whatever it is I want to do. And when I’m not drinking, I can listen to podcasts in the evening or read books and remember them. But not only that, you know, you can also get a babysitter and go do something, you know, I used to because I worked full time. When I was home and my husband wanted to do something, I felt like I couldn’t. Wow, he just sort of, he’s doing something on stuff. And then I wouldn’t even ask for something. And so then I started being like, oh, I want to do this thing. And he’d be like, well, I’ve got a game and I’d be like, Okay, sounds like we need a babysitter, you know? And it’s just like, yes, you know, and you know, the world will not end, you’re allowed to be happy. You’re allowed to both work and do something interesting. On the weekends and spend time with your kids like there is enough. But it doesn’t have to be everything for your boss and your family and nothing for you because that’s just going to set you up for unhappiness.

 

Hailey Magee  54:40

Totally, it leaves with that like empty, hollowed out feeling of really just being something that other people we also have to be something to ourselves. Yeah, right. Like that’s got to be part of our work here.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  54:55

So what are some of the most rewarding parts of being someone who stand except for themselves and self advocates.

 

Hailey Magee  55:03

So I think when we’re people pleasing, or when we’re drinking, or whatever, it’s really easy to feel like we’re always wondering what to do or how to play it. Or it’s like, how many drinks do I have tonight? How will I hide the fact that I’m a little tipsy? Or it’s like, you know, what can I say, to make them like me? How can I navigate all that stuff? It’s very tiresome to be constantly exploring and trying to find the right answer. And I think like, when you step into who you really are, like, and you give yourself permission to be authentic and honest, like, there’s only one answer, it’s like the answer, that’s true for you, you’re no longer worrying about how to play it, you’re no longer worrying about how to swing it, or how to be appealing to people. It’s so much simpler. It’s like, This is who I am. And I’ve promised myself that this is who I’m going to present to the world. And I think the amount of like energy and time that we save on all of that rumination and thinking is like such a beautiful thing.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  55:57

Yeah, yeah. And anything you do for the first time is uncomfortable. That’s what’s been sort of holding you back. And one of the, you know, you mentioned this, I think one of the hardest parts is, okay, you set a boundary, or you change something, and then you have to sit there and feeling uncomfortable. And the, the gut reaction is, at least I know, for me is to be like, wait, wait, let me take it back. Like that person is now being quiet, or that person didn’t react well. And I’m like, let me you know, never mind. And so some of the hardest part is to be like, I’m going to sit here in being uncomfortable and not take it back. And, you know, that’s when things shift.

 

Hailey Magee  56:43

Yep. I think being able, that’s where so much of the work is, it’s being able to, it’s not like we’re gonna eliminate hard feelings from our lives, right? There will be anxiety, there will be those moments where we’re just sitting in the muck. And the trick is not to like make those feelings go away. It’s like, the thing I always talk about is like how to develop resiliency to them. So guilt resiliency, if you’re feeling guilty, or just discomfort, resiliency, and self soothing, you know, emotional regulation, that’s where all these like big picture concepts come into play in a very real way.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  57:17

Yeah, yeah, I can completely see that. So I love that you have the empowered boundary setting for the recovery people pleaser, courageous dating. I know some of my clients would love that. Because it is difficult. I mean, that’s one of the things a lot of women worry about the most? How am I going to date if I’m not drinking or sort of shape shifting into that? And then you have the say, no club. So where is the best place for someone to start if they want to learn more about you and follow up?

 

Hailey Magee  57:52

Yeah, so they should definitely visit HaileyMagee.com, which is my website where you can see all my offerings. And then the Instagram, like you mentioned that @Haileypaigemagee. But for folks who are looking to like dip their toes into the work and really get started, I recommend checking out my empowered boundaries for the recovering people pleaser workshop. So it’s 90 minutes, you can come to an event live, or you can watch it on demand. And then I’ll just kind of whet your whistle for this work of boundary setting and breaking the people pleasing pattern. Yeah. And if you did get you can keep coming back for more whether it’s the same Oh, clever, another workshop too.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  58:25

Yeah. And I think those boundaries setting even with yourself and getting over the people pleasing is huge in being able to release that past identity, because so much of it is sort of fear of the unknown or worries about it. And you know, you do need to do some work to get through those growing pains. But that means that you’re shifting from a situation that really wasn’t making you that happy.

 

Hailey Magee  58:53

Yep. It’s really like a huge transformation.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  58:56

Yeah. Oh, that’s great. I’m so glad you came back on. Thank you so much.

 

Hailey Magee  59:01

Thanks for having me back. I can’t believe it. I mean, it’s so cool to see the podcast just kicking butt. So it was truly a pleasure to come back and chat with you.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  59:09

Yeah. And so if anyone wants to listen to the previous episode with Hailey, I will, of course, put it in the show notes. But you can also go to Hello Sunday coaching.com forward slash the number five, which is crazy, because it was my fifth episode. And this one is going to be 106.

 

59:30

That is so wild. All right.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  59:32

Well, thank you again. It’s always great to talk with you.

 

Hailey Magee  59:36

Thanks, Casey.

 

Casey McGuire Davidson  59:39